Remembering what this section of the forum is for.

[Jonny]

Hi all.

I've not posted a lot myself, but when I do it's only fair I maintain some respect for for the original poster. Dave set this forum up for everyone and this section is exactly for what it is titled. "Beginners and newbies to electronics can ask questions here."

That said, I have seen plenty of responses that make fun of, ridicule or otherwise do nothing but likely make the original poster wonder why they even bothered to expect more from a group of intelligent and highly skilled individuals. Replies suggesting 'how dare you even post here without consulting google first' for example. Somehow I get the feeling that said individuals are insulted that there's some non-existent yet pre-conceived expectation they must waste precious minutes of their lives replying. In a place that has been set up for the sole purpose of offering help there are too many people turning away or mocking newbies off the bat.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Direct conversation with someone knowledgeable in a given field is worth a thousand minutes spent trying to find an answer among tonnes of literature on a given subject.

OK some people deserve a smart ass response when, say, they don't provide enough info to their problem and expect us to be almost psychic, but couldn't well all try and be a bit more supportive to the the newbies who are really trying to succeed and learn? If you don't want to participate then don't say anything at all. There's nobody forcing you to commit time and money here. It might seem like a trivial problem to you, it might have been answered time and time again in past posts, but it's still a new problem to that one person. For example if someone posted a basic circuit and asked "why is my resistor glowing bright orange" I would work through it and help them understand why rather than telling them to google ohms law and come back later when they've got something harder.

Beginners section is for just that

With respect
Jonathan

[Wytnucls]

Well said Jonny, totally agree with you.
If you are unable or unwilling to help, just stay away from the thread. Providing cryptic answers or referring posters to Google or Wikipedia searches only serve to frustrate and confuse posters and turn them away from this site. I don't think this is what Dave had in mind when he set up the Beginners section.
To be fair, most knowledgeable people try to help. Only a smattering of individuals have turned it into a sport to belittle newcomers in this section.

[Rascal]

Some people appear to want answers handed to them on a plate - without giving a thought to it themselves.

So googling, research, experiments  and using the 'grey matter' should be first obvious choices.

I sometimes wonder how some people make it through life 

[Psi]

i can't say i've noticed this happening much.

There is the occasional person who asks something silly and gets a silly answer, and occasional users that word their replies with a bit of attitude due to annoyance at lack of common sense in the OP.

Sadly we are never going to have a perfect system.
But it seems much less of an problem here than other forums of similar size.

[Wytnucls]

Some people appear to want answers handed to them on a plate - without giving a thought to it themselves.

So googling, research, experiments  and using the 'grey matter' should be first obvious choices.

I sometimes wonder how some people make it through life

What's the problem with that? Their level of electronic knowledge may be minimal. Why labor through a mountain of information on the internet, if expert advice is available here at short notice.
When you seek medical advice for an ailment, your doctor doesn't tell you to research the nature of it at the library first.

[Skimask]

The doctor gets paid to know "everything" off the top of his/her head.

Anybody here getting any $$$?

[Wytnucls]

If you want to get paid for your help, set up your own business site.
Most doctors would still help you if you can't pay for medical advice.

[AndrejaKo]

@Skimask
Doctor's job is to provide medical advice and is getting payed for that. Is anyone here employed at the EEVblog forum to answer n00b questions? From what I can see, the answer is no, so there's no need to complain about lack of payment.

If you want money, why don't you go to a site where you can get some? There are numerous sites for electronics freelancers where you can get payed to solve an issue.

Finally, nobody is forcing anyone here to even take a look at newbie threads or to even go to the beginners forum. If you don't like the forum, avoid it and let it go on its course.

For example, there's the Class AB amp thread right now active. From what I can see, it's two pages of mostly fluff and users complaining that OP didn't do enough research. What's the point of that?

I tend to spend my time here in threads that are actually interesting to me and when I respond to someone's question, I do that because it's a pleasing activity to me. That pleasure is my payment. Same is true for other sites I visit.

[EEVblog]

I obviously don't read everything thread, so can you cite a recent example of where is happening?

[onlooker]

The doctor analogue does not really apply here. One goes to see a doctor is not because he wants to be a doctor or become knowledgeable in medicine. 

But a beginner comes to this forum is likely because he want to learn some electronics knowledge. Then, learn or being told to learn to Google or do some preparation or research is part of the things he should be doing and listening.

Even in a class room situation, a teacher (being paid) would not like to answer questions from an unprepared student. 

[komet]

But there also seems to be a lack of well-structured beginner teaching materials. As far as I can tell, web sites tend to go directly from "how to calculate an LED dropper resistor without actually mentioning Ohm's Law" to "Which one of these almost identical Arduino knockoffs should you waste your money on" without anything decent covering RC networks, basic transistor circuits and so on.

Of course I could be mistaken, having no need for such a course. But if there were a canonical place to send beginners to, along the lines of "dive into python" I'm sure I would have noticed.

[Wytnucls]

Not everybody wants to be an electronic engineer. They may not be aware of the pitfalls concerning their narrow band of interest. When they come here for help, they don't expect to be lectured about Google, but rather seek courteous advice or pointers to specific solutions.

[Wytnucls]

But there also seems to be a lack of well-structured beginner teaching materials. As far as I can tell, web sites tend to go directly from "how to calculate an LED dropper resistor without actually mentioning Ohm's Law" to "Which one of these almost identical Arduino knockoffs should you waste your money on" without anything decent covering RC networks, basic transistor circuits and so on.

Of course I could be mistaken, having no need for such a course. But if there were a canonical place to send beginners to, along the lines of "dive into python" I'm sure I would have noticed.

There are a few well structured sites for beginners like these two:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/index.html
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/

They don't cover everything in depth, but are a good start for analogue circuits.

[komet]

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/index.html
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/

Had a quick look. The information looks good, but I can still imagine beginners being put off by the somewhat formal presentation and an emphasis on calculation exercises instead of breadboarding and measuring. The second link, furthermore, gives the beginner no hint as to the order in which to learn the material. It seems to be simply sorted alphabetically. This is, of course, not to suggest that such sites do not have their valid place.

I am thinking that there ought to be something along the lines of the old Radio Shack 150-in-one kit, which was in fact a well structured electronics course for kids without once using the word "course", or "structure" or anything like that. Plus the amount of mileage they managed to get out of 3 transistors, a dozen resistors and capacitors each, a lamp and a speaker, and no multimeter, was astounding.

[Rascal]

Enough material exist on the internet for most people to at least familiarise themselves with the subject they are asking about.

If you need help repairing your 'Large Hadron Collider' it is probably worth finding out the basics of its operation, before expecting others to spend the time on your behalf.

[kizzap]

The only thing that bugs me with some of the questions here is that the OP genuinely seems to want someone to solve their problem for them, which I am sure most people would be happy to do-if they were being paid to.

One example that springs directly to mind is in This Thread. Now the OP does decently explain what the final product should do, however they do NOT show that they have taken any steps towards finding out the solution at all. To top it off, it seems like it would make an EXTREMELY good question for a University Assignment question.

I did take the time to lay out some options of what I could think would provide a possible solution, However it really seemed like the OP didn't want to take the time to go read and understand the problem that he was asking us to solve.

I think there needs to be a blanket rule brought into effect in the beginner forum: All Questions asked must show that you have taken steps to understand the problem.

For example:

"How does device XYZ work?" or "Can someone show me how ABC connects to 123?" would be Bad.

"I understand that Chip XYZ does A, but what causes XYZ to do B?" or "I'm looking at using Chip XYZ, and don't understand what pin X does" would be better questions.

In effect, if it is something that could be Google'd, go Google it.

-kizzap

[c4757p]

Disclaimer: I have certainly had a few grumpy "this ain't no answer service and we're not your lackeys, piss off" moments. Occasionally, people definitely earn that.

However... there are IMHO a very few people on here who almost pride themselves on having a hair-triggered attitude that will turn hostile at the slightest hint of brattiness. The correct response when someone acts a bit overly entitled is to either A) tell them to stop, and be open to communicating with them in a civil manner if they shape up, or B) just go away and let someone else take the time to talk to them. It's never C) tell them to FOAD. It's OK to let someone know they're being an asshole, it's not OK to wantonly fling unfounded insults at them because they were a bit demanding.

I'm not saying we need to mollycoddle people and hand them answers to everything. If you expect to get anywhere in interactions with other people, you need to be able to hold your own against criticism, and receive people's irritation when you've crossed a line. But can we please stop actively trying to chase off people we don't really care for?

Not everybody wants to be an electronic engineer. They may not be aware of the pitfalls concerning their narrow band of interest. When they come here for help, they don't expect to be lectured about Google, but rather seek courteous advice or pointers to specific solutions.

I have to disagree there. This is not a public library, it's a place for people who share a common interest to socialize. When in Rome, do as the Romans do - and when on an electronics forum, at least muster up a modicum of interest in electronics. I'm not going to be outright hostile to the Google-impaired, but people do need to learn to do a bit of their own research and be somewhat informed before asking for help.

If you want free answers without having to participate in developing your question properly, please ask somewhere else. I don't think I'm alone in saying people need to interact rather than demanding answers.

[Wytnucls]

This is a beginner's section. There shouldn't be any constraints on what people can asked, else the traffic will die down. A positive interaction could prokove a genuine interest in electronics and long term membership.
If you find the requests inappropriate, move on and go interact with your buddies on more mature subjects. The thread will just fade away. There is no need to ridicule and offend new posters with know-it-all contempt.

[komet]

Surely a general rule might be that both sides ought to try to do their best.

Q1. I want to connect a very big LED to my Arduino. HELP URGENTLY

Q2. I want to connect a 5W LED to my Arduino. I have looked around on the Internet and discovered something called MOSFET, and I understand that I can connect its gate to the Arduino, but what do I do with the other terminals and how do I decide whether to use the 2N7002 or the IRF1324S? And do I need an optocoupler?

Surely we can agree that Q2 is reasonable and can be expected of a beginner, and also that his mistakes should be overlooked or gently explained.

A1. Connect the drain to ground (which means the minus terminal of your battery) and the source to the cathode of your LED. You do not need an optocoupler. The 2N7002 should be sufficient.

A2. Mentioning an optocoupler clearly indicates that you are mentally deficient and ought to have a guardian appointed. Fuck you, and all that you stand for, and the horse you rode in on, and all that the horse you rode in on stands for.

A3. Why didn't you google "MOSFET ARDUINO", you syphilitic popinjay? Doing so results in precisely the circuit you require. I know this because I have just done so. Nevertheless I will not just post the link here but instead take the opportunity to insult you. P.S. I have 40 years experience at NASA.

I see answers of type A2 and A3 with some regularity, and they do nothing to further anybody's knowledge. Not only that, they actually take more time to write than A1, leaving one to wonder if they don't derive their self-worth from their supposed superiority.

[c4757p]

There shouldn't be any constraints on what people can asked, else the traffic will die down. A positive interaction could prokove a genuine interest in electronics

Absolutely true. I don't really have any problem with people asking pretty much anything, no matter how naive.

My problem is when people ask a question, don't immediately get the answer they wanted, and get testy. I don't mind if people ask a question that they could have otherwise answered with a search, but I do mind if they then sit there and demand an answer when they don't get one. This is a forum, people are going to have discussions, and occasionally they'll talk about something related to your question without directly answering it.

[c4757p]

A2. Mentioning an optocoupler clearly indicates that you are mentally deficient and ought to have a guardian appointed. Fuck you, and all that you stand for, and the horse you rode in on, and all that the horse you rode in on stands for.

A3. Why didn't you google "MOSFET ARDUINO", you syphilitic popinjay? Doing so results in precisely the circuit you require. I know this because I have just done so. Nevertheless I will not just post the link here but instead take the opportunity to insult you. P.S. I have 40 years experience at NASA.

These definitely happen. But really, I think that most people here tend to be quite amenable to giving help when they encounter Q2. There are a few people who love to dive in with A2 and A3, but not really many or often.

(And you forgot "How dare you soil this forum with that foul word, Arduino!? Arduino is a ridiculous toy for simpletons and anybody who would so much as look at an Arduino deserves no help at all!")

[MacAttak]

Beginner's forum is where many (most?) people here make their first posts - either to pose a question or to "test the waters" by answering a few first.

I think a lot of the seasoned veterans don't realize just how intimidating the rest of the forums are. The Beginner's area is the only safe haven until people have been around long enough to build their confidence up. People should get a pass on many things when they post in that area unless they abuse it.

And a true beginner who might not even know the right questions to pose to Google in the first place. Google won't come back for clarification when your question doesn't make sense to it.

[lapm]

I believe that biggest problem someone new to electronics has is they dont know what they dont know. They have some idea but no idea what to lookup from internet related to that idea.

[digsys]

I agree with the OP 100%. If you don't like what a newbie posts, STFU, and I do include the "rude or arrogant" first posts.
It can get quite frustrating reading smart-ass replies from supposedly "intelligent" long time members. No one died and
made you folks king. If the post is so bad and there's no-one around who'll at least attempt to help, it will go away silently.
Being a smart-ass only buys you "avoidance" points.

[BravoV]

Interesting thread, a case study, intrigued to hear comments on this example.

1. Suggesting to read it carefully post by post starting from this thread -> Case 1.1
2. Now, next one related to previous one -> Case 1.2

Edit : Oh yeah, another fine example as well -> Case 2 

[Tube_Dude]

Everything can be resumed in the good old question:

- To give the fish or teaching how to fish?!   

[pete20r2]

I copped this in my first thread:

That is just the first part of the mystery. The answer to that first part could be spoiled rich kid used to push mom, dad or servants around.

The second part of the mystery is why are there always people who try to spoon feed the rich spoiled kid even after it insulted him or one of the community? Some even try extra hard to satisfy the spoiled rich kid when it gets agitated. As if they love to be pushed around by spoiled rich kids.

Now, what does one have to do to deserve that?

[GeoffS]

It's near impossible to read and follow every thread on this forum to pick up on instances of this problem.

My suggestions is if you see a thread or post that bother you in this regard, then report it using the Report Post button. This will bring it to the attention of the moderators who can then address it as required.

[c4757p]

Now, what does one have to do to deserve that?

Post a beginner-ish question at the same moment he has decided to go through that section?

Look, I've been trying not to name names... but I was specifically referring to him... just ignore it, most of us are nicer. He's usually nice too, if occasionally curt, but really seems not to care for newbies.

[Bored@Work]

You know what is interesting?

All these "you must be nice" people never show up helping beginners. All they do is complain about people like me, of course in a backstabbing and anonymous way. But these complainers rarely manage to get their own ass up at all.

So to all you little ladies out there, what about getting your ass up and dutifully providing spoon-feeding service ad nauseam? AD NAUSEAM, not just once. You are not happy how lazy gits and idiots are treated? Get off your soap-box, make them happy spending your own time, instead of telling me and others how we have to spend our time. Make them happy and take the abuse you get from the gits and idiots. Try giving them an inch and deliver happily when they take an ell. Get your intelligence insulted. Get abused as a homework service. Take it day after day, for years. Again and again and again. Then you have some ground to voice an opinion.

[digsys]

... Get abused as a homework service. Take it day after day, for years. Again and again and again .... 

Tough day job :-) :-)

[c4757p]

Oh for fuck's sake...

Why don't you go back and read what we've said? Not just skim it and confirm that we're telling people to be nice, then go straight into rant mode. Because nobody suggested spoon-feeding people. I agree, nobody needs to be spoon-fed. But does that really preclude helping them at all? Come on.... don't be an asshole.

All they do is complain about people like me, of course in a backstabbing and anonymous way.

Because you're not the only one, and what good would it be to just list everybody who's ever said something nasty? Wouldn't you be happy that your name isn't always automatically associated with every mention of someone being a snide, snobbish prick?

[c4757p]

One test I apply to beginners is to check if they are able to learn. You failed that one.

"I'm not being a dick, it's a test! I do it on purpose to see if you're worthy of my help. See, there's a method to my madness..."

No... you just like insulting people.

My suggestions is if you see a thread or post that bother you in this regard, then report it using the Report Post button. This will bring it to the attention of the moderators who can then address it as required.

To both of you: I never report things like this because I have been assuming, incorrectly perhaps, that a grown adult can handle being directly asked to behave, like an adult, rather than needing mommy to come put him in time out.

And I don't always complain about you in a "backstabbing and anonymous way", I'm sure you've noticed that I have directly responded to you on multiple occasions and asked you to stop being a dick.

But clearly it doesn't work. You think being a dick is a good thing.

[Smokey]

In my opinion this forum is incredibly tolerant of beginners asking all sorts of questions, especially considering the number of really smart people that hang around here. 
It's usually pretty easy to tell the people who genuinely have an interest and just don't know where to start from the people who are just trying to get someone to do some work for them. 
There are two kinds of beginner posts that do drive me crazy though...
1) Begging.  Really?
2) People that ask a really broad question without any application specifics, and then get all aggro when people give them suggestions and it's not EXACTLY what they had in mind.  EE!=Mind Reader. 

[Rigby]

My rules for assisting on boards:

• If a clear question or questions have been asked, and I can help, then I help.  I try to give pointers to places where further research & explanations can be found, if applicable & known.

That's it.  If there is too much vagueness, I don't respond at all.  If they are complaining, I don't respond.  If they are acting entitled, helpless, whiny, can't form a question, can't be bothered to provide rudimentary background details so that the question CAN be answered, then I just don't respond.

I don't use any of those things as an excuse to attack or to vocalize at all.  This works really, really well, and I've found that it's the very best way at all to get someone to look at what they've asked and read through it a few times while they wonder why no one has responded.

All you do upon an attack is change the subject and put the original poster on the defensive, and if you're here to help or be altruistic at all, then putting the OP on the defensive will not be of interest to you whatsoever.

[c4757p]

Please tell me the forum software ate a post, and B@W didn't delete his second, more prickish comment to make himself look better.


Moderator: No, it was me.

[Neilm]

And a true beginner who might not even know the right questions to pose to Google in the first place. Google won't come back for clarification when your question doesn't make sense to it.

That has happened several times on this forum - last I remember about 3-4 weeks ago

[c4757p]

And a true beginner who might not even know the right questions to pose to Google in the first place. Google won't come back for clarification when your question doesn't make sense to it.

Absolutely agreed.

Google and SPICE are both tools that can tell you how things work, if you know how to use them and already have a smattering of an understanding of the topic.

"Don't ask us a question that simple! Just f-ing Google it! My god, has your Google subscription expired? Are you retarded?"

s/Google/SPICE/g and get back to me.

[alm]

Someone can easily preempt this by including something like "I used Google to search for how to convert a squiggly line into a straight line, but did not find anything relevant." This shows that they at least tried to do their homework, and earn them some goodwill with most more experienced users.

[Psi]

Being nice isn't the problem as it's a bit subjective.
It's easy to think you're being "nice" to someone by giving them a wake up check and posting something negative which you think they need. (it never is)
It only ever leads to a downwards spiral until someone can get the thread back on topic.

It's when people choose to say something negative (which may very well be true and valid) which is the problem, instead of ignoring the thread or comment and moving on.

Everyone gets annoying by the things others do/say, it's just that most people let it go and move on more often than others.

[Phaedrus]

For the last 5 years or so I have answered questions about power supplies asked by computer enthusiasts who have often never even looked at an electrical schematic. They don't know that a power supply's wattage is its capacity, not something it outputs continuously. They don't understand efficiency. They don't know how much power their components draw. They confuse voltage and power and current constantly. They don't know what ripple is. They don't know what an OEM is. They don't know what capacitors are and why their quality matters. They've never heard of ohm's law. They trust the voltage readings taken from the software that reads the (usually) uncalibrated, low-res, low-accuracy monitoring chip on their motherboard, and they are incredulous or confused when you recommend buying a $20 multimeter to get something close to an accurate reading. Tens of thousands of questions, with 95% of them actually being the same question repeated over and over.

Through the last five years, I have calmly answered their questions in a polite, informative, and helpful way. Ad nauseum. Without acting like a prick or telling them to just fucking Google it. I can count the number of times I've lost my temper at people on the fingers of one hand, and it's happened not once in the last two years. If I saw a question that was asked with great frequency, I wrote an article that explained it in a concise, easy-to-follow, and technically accurate way, and linked to that article with a one sentence summary when I encountered that question.




If, when faced with a much larger pool of far more varied and interesting questions on a number of much more complicated subjects, you cannot maintain at least a somewhat civil tone with people, and lose your temper at the slightest sign of of incomprehension or attitude... Then you might just be the reason why there seem to be so few competent young engineers about these days.

So suck it up, swallow your pride, and try to give useful advice to the people seeking it. One of them might be the next Widlar, if you don't scare them off with insults just because they misunderstood your poorly written explanation of a circuit.

[xrunner]

The board description for Beginners is simply:

Beginners and newbies to electronics can ask questions here.

There is no descriptive post, which is usually locked, that explains what sort of etiquette to present to new electronics users on this board. Suggest such a post would be useful.

[Smokey]

...try to give useful advice to the people seeking it. One of them might be the next Widlar.....

That's a scary thought.  Can you imagine working at a company full of Widlars?  I bet more than just busted components would get Widlar-ized

[Phaedrus]

...try to give useful advice to the people seeking it. One of them might be the next Widlar.....

That's a scary thought.  Can you imagine working at a company full of Widlars?  I bet more than just busted components would get Widlar-ized

True, but we'd also probably get a 500MHz oscilloscope based on a single chip out of it, which also functions as a variable output differential power supply and a tequila dispenser.

[EEVblog]

This is a beginner's section. There shouldn't be any constraints on what people can asked

There isn't any constraint on what you can ask.
But as others have pointed out, this being a social community, there is always going to be some constraint on how you ask it.
e.g. if you ask a simple question like "how does an oscilloscope work?", you can expect simple replies with a google link.
But if you ask the same question and explain what you know and what you don't know, and how you still don't quite understand something, then you'll likely get a long detailed response.

A positive interaction could prokove a genuine interest in electronics and long term membership.
If you find the requests inappropriate, move on and go interact with your buddies on more mature subjects. The thread will just fade away. There is no need to ridicule and offend new posters with know-it-all contempt.

I agree. If someone does post an "ill-formed" question, then it's not right to be nasty to them. Simply provide a google link, or ask for further info. Or simply ignore of course.

[EEVblog]

The board description for Beginners is simply:
Beginners and newbies to electronics can ask questions here.

Fixed!

[xrunner]

The board description for Beginners is simply:
Beginners and newbies to electronics can ask questions here.

Fixed!

 

[Stonent]

I'm not really sure what I'd call myself. I sometimes have to ask basic questions but occasionally I've added some input to more technical conversations.

It is somewhat annoying when you see someone with less than 5 posts asking what obviously seems to be an answer for a school project and in some cases we've found that person posted the same exact question word for word on another website.

Then you get the completely insane stuff which feels along the lines of "I just salvaged a Buran orbital vehicle from a junkyard in in Kazakhstan, but the guidance computer is missing. Can you give me a schematic to build one using an Arduino and write all the code for me so I can get this thing airborne? This is urgent!"

[c4757p]

I'm not really sure what I'd call myself. I sometimes have to ask basic questions but occasionally I've added some input to more technical conversations.

An active learner.

[rsjsouza]

+1 to Rigby's post, with one difference: when I am replying to something technical for a beginner I tend to spend a lot of time to verify all sources, info for correctness, etc. What ends up happening is that I usually am overrun by faster contributors. Thus I refrain from using the channel capacity of the forum with comments are so below their entropy they carry no useful information.

Similarly to Phaedrus, part of my work is answering technical questions on certain forums - yes, from customers and from hobbyists, students, etc AD FREAKING NAUSEUM. I have my share of terse or really insulting questions that were replied with "Google is your friend: <insert_meaningful_result>" or "with the level of detail provided it is impossible to...", but the alternative of shooting a snide comment wastes your time and does not help the other party.

@c4757... I am also very intrigued by the mystery of the missing post... 

[Stonent]

+1 to Rigby's post, with one difference: when I am replying to something technical for a beginner I tend to spend a lot of time to verify all sources, info for correctness, etc. What ends up happening is that I usually am overrun by faster contributors. Thus I refrain from using the channel capacity of the forum with comments are so below their entropy they carry no useful information.

Similarly to Phaedrus, part of my work is answering technical questions on certain forums - yes, from customers and from hobbyists, students, etc AD FREAKING NAUSEUM. I have my share of terse or really insulting questions that were replied with "Google is your friend: <insert_meaningful_result>" or "with the level of detail provided it is impossible to...", but the alternative of shooting a snide comment wastes your time and does not help the other party.

@c4757... I am also very intrigued by the mystery of the missing post... 

I shall refer everyone to the official "How to ask questions the smart way" by Eric S. Raymond. I think it should be required reading for users of web forums, but you can't always get what you want.

http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

It's very thorough and explains why new people often get snide remarks or why it's not helpful for people to give no information and expect a detailed answer.

Specifically this portion:

Use meaningful, specific subject headers

On mailing lists, newsgroups or Web forums, the subject header is your golden opportunity to attract qualified experts' attention in around 50 characters or fewer. Don't waste it on babble like “Please help me” (let alone “PLEASE HELP ME!!!!”; messages with subjects like that get discarded by reflex). Don't try to impress us with the depth of your anguish; use the space for a super-concise problem description instead.

One good convention for subject headers, used by many tech support organizations, is “object - deviation”. The “object” part specifies what thing or group of things is having a problem, and the “deviation” part describes the deviation from expected behavior.

Stupid:
HELP! Video doesn't work properly on my laptop!
Smart:
X.org 6.8.1 misshapen mouse cursor, Fooware MV1005 vid. chipset
Smarter:
X.org 6.8.1 mouse cursor on Fooware MV1005 vid. chipset - is misshapen

The process of writing an “object-deviation” description will help you organize your thinking about the problem in more detail. What is affected? Just the mouse cursor or other graphics too? Is this specific to the X.org version of X? To version 6.8.1? Is this specific to Fooware video chipsets? To model MV1005? A hacker who sees the result can immediately understand what it is that you are having a problem with and the problem you are having, at a glance.

More generally, imagine looking at the index of an archive of questions, with just the subject lines showing. Make your subject line reflect your question well enough that the next guy searching the archive with a question similar to yours will be able to follow the thread to an answer rather than posting the question again.

I particularly like this line

Don't try to impress us with the depth of your anguish

I do find it very annoying when people seemed more focused on getting sympathy from you for their level of frustration than getting to the point.

In my line of work supporting the IT portion of a factory I deal with stuff ranging from helping someone understand why their mailbox is full up to one of the PCs connected to a robot threw an error and now the robot is physically smashing the product. (Ok that exact problem hasn't happed when I was working but it has happened before and if it did again and I was here, I'd be the one going out there.)

So back to the whining part. Lets say someone puts in a ticket for help for say the mail box full issue. The problem may only be "Well looks like you've got a 1GB file stuck in your outbox and that's never going to send" but a lot of times they'll insist on telling you that "I've been waiting hours and hours opening and closing Outlook rebooting my computer for hours and hours and I'm so frustrated blah blah" for 10 minutes before they'll even let you touch the computer.

Another goodie:

Write in clear, grammatical, correctly-spelled language

We've found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking and coding (often enough to bet on, anyway). Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding; we'd rather spend our time elsewhere.

So expressing your question clearly and well is important. If you can't be bothered to do that, we can't be bothered to pay attention. Spend the extra effort to polish your language. It doesn't have to be stiff or formal — in fact, hacker culture values informal, slangy and humorous language used with precision. But it has to be precise; there has to be some indication that you're thinking and paying attention.

Spell, punctuate, and capitalize correctly. Don't confuse “its” with “it's”, “loose” with “lose”, or “discrete” with “discreet”. Don't TYPE IN ALL CAPS; this is read as shouting and considered rude. (All-smalls is only slightly less annoying, as it's difficult to read. Alan Cox can get away with it, but you can't.)

More generally, if you write like a semi-literate boob you will very likely be ignored. So don't use instant-messaging shortcuts. Spelling "you" as "u" makes you look like a semi-literate boob to save two entire keystrokes. Worse: writing like a l33t script kiddie hax0r is the absolute kiss of death and guarantees you will receive nothing but stony silence (or, at best, a heaping helping of scorn and sarcasm) in return.

If you are writing in English but it is a second language for you, it is good form to alert potential respondents to potential language difficulties and options for getting around them.

So in my opinion, the approach to the question generates the hostility more than the actual meat of the question.

[c4757p]

So back to the whining part. Lets say someone puts in a ticket for help for say the mail box full issue. The problem may only be "Well looks like you've got a 1GB file stuck in your outbox and that's never going to send" but a lot of times they'll insist on telling you that "I've been waiting hours and hours opening and closing Outlook rebooting my computer for hours and hours and I'm so frustrated blah blah" for 10 minutes before they'll even let you touch the computer.

I can often be reasonably patient with electronics. But trying to help people with computers is likely to make me rather violent...

[Kirigozo]

Reading this thread has been very informative. I think it should be pinned to the front page; it describes what this forum is all about and prospective members should be forewarned.

Now play nice, children.

Good bye....

[Stonent]

So back to the whining part. Lets say someone puts in a ticket for help for say the mail box full issue. The problem may only be "Well looks like you've got a 1GB file stuck in your outbox and that's never going to send" but a lot of times they'll insist on telling you that "I've been waiting hours and hours opening and closing Outlook rebooting my computer for hours and hours and I'm so frustrated blah blah" for 10 minutes before they'll even let you touch the computer.

I can often be reasonably patient with electronics. But trying to help people with computers is likely to make me rather violent...

Technology very rarely frustrates me. PEOPLE frustrate me. Technology is logical, it does what it is told relentlessly whether you like it or not. People relentlessly do whatever they want regardless of what they're told.

[Skimask]

@Skimask
Doctor's job is to provide medical advice and is getting payed for that. Is anyone here employed at the EEVblog forum to answer n00b questions? From what I can see, the answer is no, so there's no need to complain about lack of payment.

My point exactly...

[rsjsouza]

Good read, Stonent. Now on to make people read all that as well...

Don't try to impress us with the depth of your anguish

I do find it very annoying when people seemed more focused on getting sympathy from you for their level of frustration than getting to the point.

I usually get that not only from customers but also from fellow colleagues. My answer to that is usually something I learned a long while ago based on the graph below: why the heck did you let an important problem become urgent?

Source: http://lifetrainingonline.com/blog/first-things-first-chapters-1-5.htm

Write in clear, grammatical, correctly-spelled language

We've found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking and coding (often enough to bet on, anyway). Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding; we'd rather spend our time elsewhere.

I usually say that the amount of effort in your answer is proportional to the amount of effort the person put in asking the question.

However, regarding grammar, clarity, etc, it is very hard to do in an international forum. I get a lot of questions from around the world and it is not uncommon that I have to use the portuguese way of saying things before I can decode the message (I am brazilian). Not only that, but certain cultures (brazilian included) have a tendency to tell a long background and intertwine the questions with the text, or sometimes only at the end. Other cultures (US american included) diagonally read long texts and usually do not comprehend the problem at hand.

In my experience, over the years I always had to work four times harder to write a question in english and make sure the verbiage was appropriate, the spelling was correct - even still I had communication problems. Polishing the communications in english took me several years and, after I reached a point of reasonable clarity, I used to help my customers and even re-write their questions so they would get an answer.

As the text said, these will fall off the importance list if you have schedules and goals or is simply pressed by time (this usually does not happen here as everybody is a volunteer).

Technology very rarely frustrates me. PEOPLE frustrate me. Technology is logical, it does what it is told relentlessly whether you like it or not. People relentlessly do whatever they want regardless of what they're told.

Have you ever had to deal with a silicon bug during development before? Or had intermittent or simply non-working things that were fixed by a reboot, a cable replacement, a loose pin? Yes, technology can be terribly frustrating at times!

[Paul Price]

OMG, I am becoming a troll!


Perhaps, when someone joins this website and registers, a small sentence of suggestion might be offered to newbies to get good results for their questions:

...To expect many helpful replies, please be careful to take some time to explain what  your question or problem is specifically about. If possible post a schematic or just take the time to scan in a hand-drawn circuit. Don't be vague. Try to be brief while giving the essential important details regarding your inquiry or question about a topic. Don't expect others to do try to guess what  your question is really about. Don't waste the time of professionals that are very willing to help by asking a question that can be answered by a simple Google search on your own.

[c4757p]

I really think it's more important that the established members remember to remind newbies of this like polite, civil adults, rather than that the newbies are dutifully made aware of it.

[Stonent]

However, regarding grammar, clarity, etc, it is very hard to do in an international forum. I get a lot of questions from around the world and it is not uncommon that I have to use the portuguese way of saying things before I can decode the message (I am brazilian). Not only that, but certain cultures (brazilian included) have a tendency to tell a long background and intertwine the questions with the text, or sometimes only at the end. Other cultures (US american included) diagonally read long texts and usually do not comprehend the problem at hand.

In my experience, over the years I always had to work four times harder to write a question in english and make sure the verbiage was appropriate, the spelling was correct - even still I had communication problems. Polishing the communications in english took me several years and, after I reached a point of reasonable clarity, I used to help my customers and even re-write their questions so they would get an answer.

As the text said, these will fall off the importance list if you have schedules and goals or is simply pressed by time (this usually does not happen here as everybody is a volunteer).

There was more about the English part that I cut out because the post was getting way to long.  Basically it was long the lines of if English is not your native language, just preface the question with that and do your best and also proposed posting the question in your native language as well in case someone else could translate for the rest of the users.

A few years ago a Brazilian man came up to my counter at a store and said he needed more (I'll write this phonetically) "j-eye-guh" (jeye-guh) at first I didn't catch what he meant but then he said computer and I knew he was wanting more memory or a bigger hard drive. "J-eye-guh" meaning giga as in gigabytes.  He asked if I spoke Portuguese and I said sorry no, but if he knew some Spanish I could get another person who spoke Spanish but he said no.  Eventually I just pulled up Google Translate on the computer and we typed responses back and forth. It ended up being that he needed to get the model of computer before we could tell him what could work in it.

[David_AVD]

...  Eventually I just pulled up Google Translate on the computer and we typed responses back and forth. It ended up being that he needed to get the model of computer before we could tell him what could work in it.

What a fantastic, but simple solution.   

[Lurch]

The problem is striking that happy medium. I realise a lot of the people posting on this forum speak English only as a second language, if they even speak it as a language at all. Sometimes you can give people slack for not knowing the terminology or being unclear but regardless of the language then the effort can be the same. This forum is the most uncritical one I know, I know of plenty of forums where images are banned for example, or set to a reasonable limit. This has nothing to do with being polite or arsey, this morning there is a thread with a massive 3000 x something massive image from someone who works with computers and images on a daily basis. If you mention it you're likely to be told to stop being picky, OK I just ignore them now but then you end up ignoring half the forum which I'm sure is counter intuitive.

On the other end of the scale for example have a look at the FreeBSD forums, absolute nightmare, I can't even be bothered to post. The moderators pick each post apart and correct all grammar and spelling, punctuation, formatting and anything else and also make such a big deal out of it it distracts you from being able to read anything as it's full of crossed out bits and bolded edits. This is going a bit too far in the other direction.

I think for the size of the forum this is basically just a bog standard install of some forum software and people just get on with it. this is no criticism of Dave, but there aren't really any rules too follow so no-one can really enforce them so it is just a load of people throwing their own way of doing things in a forum an people maybe complaining if they feel like it. It's pretty much Anarchy, in a semi controlled fashion!

[ve7xen]

I really think it's more important that the established members remember to remind newbies of this like polite, civil adults, rather than that the newbies are dutifully made aware of it.

Part of being polite and civil is being respectful - especially when asking someone else to invest their time in you. That means taking your own time to formulate a sensible question, compose a coherent post, and wait patiently for someone to respond.

Unfortunately, these simple norms are beyond the grasp of many first-posters across the Internet, and I think making them duly aware of proper etiquette is doing them, and us, a service. If they heed the advice, it will help them get better answers, reduce the frustration of the experts, and improve post quality overall. Good questions are rare, I don't think the standard needs to be particularly high, but I do think teaching people to ask good questions is more important than answering their bad ones. I would say it's totally appropriate to call folks out for lazy, vague questions and point them to an excellent resource like the classic ESR treatise linked above.

I don't get upset with lazy questions for the most part, but I certainly don't go out of my way to help those posters either.

[Shock]

Easy...
If you can't add value or be patient enough to help people learn without prejudice don't reply to beginner threads.
If you have a good tutorial, diagram, video and you know it works post the link rather than "google it".

If you think the above is unreasonable then you need help more than the beginners need yours.

[iceisfun]

I've found most of the stuff I've read here is people being helpful and when I've asked questions people have been generally helpful. There will be trolls and stuff but over all the EEVBlog community is quite good.

[Smokey]

If you have a good tutorial, diagram, video and you know it works post the link rather than "google it".

I know a few people, and yes they tend to be of the older variety, who don't first think to do a web search for things.  That's just not the way they are used to getting information.  When you show them that they can essentially ask their question to Google in plain English and it returns what they are looking for, they are genuinely surprised how easy it was.  Every time.
They haven't learned the lesson that the first thing you should do is "Google it".  There is a reason EVERY computer tech support script starts with "turn it off... wait 10 seconds... and turn it back on again".  You have to say it because there are still a significant number of people that still don't know to do that.

I've found most of the stuff I've read here is people being helpful and when I've asked questions people have been generally helpful. There will be trolls and stuff but over all the EEVBlog community is quite good.

True.

[SeanB]

I try to help if I actually have a clue..........

Otherwise ignore, somebody generally will help.

[Rick Law]

As somewhat of a newbie myself, I must say, I learn a lot from the replies to questions others posted here.  There is a lot of combined brain power and knowledge here.  I am very impressed.  In fact, I am appreciative for the knowledge I have gained here.

There will always be occasional impolite questions or answers, but all told, this forum does better than many others.  It is good to have an occasional reminder for being civil.  But let us not get too distracted by them.

[madshaman]

When I was an op on a couple irc programming channels, I would see newbies come in with a question, then immediately get attacked for not knowing something or understanding something.

It used to drive myself and some of my friends right up the wall.  They would end up frustrated, have their self esteem collapsed and be put off from seeking guidance.

Myself, when I was in highschool, a girl stayed in the computer lab after class to get some help on a program she was trying to write.  I gave her the same treatment and she stormed off almost in tears and never returned to the lab.  In short, I was a complete and total asshole.

I'm 40 years old now and to this day I still regret it and feel (rightly) very guilty about it.  With one stupid act of elitism and ego I may have destroyed her entire career path and deprived the world of someone who might have become one of the best computing and information scientists in their field.

I *still* find myself doing this on occasion or at least approaching it and it always reminds me that I myself must lack confidence and knowledge and am simply doing this to make myself feel superior.

Every one of us didn't know the things we know before we learned them, and we *owe* our knowledge to others who have been confident and kind enough to help us and imho are obliged to do our best to pay that help forward when possible.

I'm still learning to be more mature and hope some day to be as patient and knowledgeable as others on this forum.

By the same token, going back to irc, there were those who would simply post their broken code which was clearly a homework assignment and expect the channel to fix it for them, a few even going as far as offering real cash to simply do their homework for them via PM.

My advice to anyone who gets slammed for asking for help:

Hopefully you are at least told why you are wrong, even if it's in a negative fashion.  If so, simply choose to learn from what's been said with the full confidence that if you persist, you will easily surpass those who would make you feel like you don't belong or are somehow "stupid (tm)".

We all do this, each in our own way, because we love it, and that's the most important thing.

[alxnik]

As an advanced (dare I say expert?) software engineer and beginner electronics hobbyist I think I currently live both sides of this, so this is my take...

There are people that need to be spoon-fed. I have colleagues like this, and I get in a lot of fights because I cannot focus on my work in order to help someone find something that can by found in 5 minutes by looking in the manual/google etc. However, you can never judge if someone needs to be spoon-fed from the start. This is why usually when I give advice/help, I start with some general advice without going into full detail. If the person I help uses the info well but stumbles later along the road, he/she is usually worth my time. I think in a forum this would translate in something like "your problem is because of X, search for it or get this Y great application note/datasheet/white paper".

Other than that, I think a forum is not a place to gather information, but a place to communicate. The whole thing  "this is answered before", "search the forum" etc is stupid. Information is lost in informal messages and threads that might span 10 pages or even more. Personally I have never found any useful info in this forum by searching, only by asking or using information I read casually some time before. Given that, there will be a lot of questions that will be repeated no matter what, because beginners have the same basic questions. This is a sore point in many forums and in this one too because it frustrates old members and new alike.

However this problem was solved a long time ago in the form of a wiki (editable stickies should work too). Common parts lists, best CAD tools to start with, brands of soldering irons, etc etc. Keep in mind that considering the tools, a beginner cannot judge in order to select the correct tool and sometimes we need info that cannot be found in wikipedia or vendor sites. The electronic load and linear power supply projects are very common for beginners, why not have a FAQ about the common pitfalls, variations, improvements etc? This would make the regulars happy because the will offer something of value and the beginners will have all the info in their hands.

Just my 2 cents 

[alm]

However, you can never judge if someone needs to be spoon-fed from the start.

Someone who clearly invested some effort in formulating their question, for example because they indicated solutions they tried and failed, and who clearly document their problem (eg. schematic/pictures) are unlikely to need spoon feeding. That definitely motivates me to invest more time in helping them than someone posting 'How do I hook up a LED?'

Other than that, I think a forum is not a place to gather information, but a place to communicate. The whole thing  "this is answered before", "search the forum" etc is stupid. Information is lost in informal messages and threads that might span 10 pages or even more. Personally I have never found any useful info in this forum by searching, only by asking or using information I read casually some time before.

This I find sad, and I disagree. I have actually found valuable information by searching this forum, and think that the forum archives are an important resource. For example if you're wondering if Hakko soldering stations sold by DealExtreme are genuine, you may find tear downs and discussions on this forum. If you're wondering about heating element quality between Hakko and some knock-offs, then you may find that someone took the time to compare thermal recovery between heating elements. If you're wondering about a split versus solid ground plane, then you'll find that someone built two boards and posted measurements. Some of these posters have invested a significant amount of time in those posts. It's not really fair to expect these people to repost this information every time someone new comes along.

The very loose moderation does not make this forum the most useful resource for this purpose. Threads will often stray off topic, and these are rarely split or even the title changed. This is clearly not StackOverflow. But that does not mean the archives are useless, especially if someone points you at the relevant threads. Sure, the information may be buried in a ten page thread. But if I want to know whether I'm wasting those $300 by buying that particular scope, I consider it my job to dig through that information, not to ask someone else to do it for me. The more experiences I read, the better I know what to expect. It's also often non-trivial to summarize a long thread.

However this problem was solved a long time ago in the form of a wiki (editable stickies should work too). Common parts lists, best CAD tools to start with, brands of soldering irons, etc etc.

Yes, some things could be better stored on a wiki. I don't think the EEVblog wiki ever got enough momentum and participants to really become useful. Are you volunteering your time?

[rsjsouza]

However, you can never judge if someone needs to be spoon-fed from the start.

Yes, you can with a very high degree of accuracy. Based on the verbiage of the question you can tell a large number of things, including the level of detail the answers are required - alm exposes examples of that.
All that said, if you are going to answer or not is completely up to you - I usually don't, unless I find a reply with a very good answer. If you are going to answer in a harsh way or not is also totally up to you (that is what has been mostly discussed here).

Other than that, I think a forum is not a place to gather information, but a place to communicate. The whole thing  "this is answered before", "search the forum" etc is stupid.

+1k to what alm said. A forum such as Eevblog is not only a place to communicate, but it is also intended to make the information publicly available. There are zillions of other ways to simply communicate without worrying about the sharing aspect (mailing lists, unlogged IRC channels, direct e-mail, etc.). That and the fact this forum is also searchable from Google (common search terms land on eevblog at the very first hits) make me disagree strongly with your statement. Obviously that, if you don't provide any other help with your reply (such as search the forum for "x"), then I agree it is noise.

However this problem was solved a long time ago in the form of a wiki (editable stickies should work too). Common parts lists, best CAD tools to start with, brands of soldering irons, etc etc.

Wikis are great for posting the information you mentioned, but they also require a great deal of maintenance to keep them up-to-date.

I work on both things for a living (forums and wikis) and frequently reply forum questions with wiki topics. I also create wiki topics when I sense the question is something that can be applicable in a more general sense and for a broader audience.

[alxnik]

Someone who clearly invested some effort in formulating their question, for example because they indicated solutions they tried and failed, and who clearly document their problem (eg. schematic/pictures) are unlikely to need spoon feeding. That definitely motivates me to invest more time in helping them than someone posting 'How do I hook up a LED?'

You have a point here. However knowing something very well, makes an experienced person have a "distorted" idea of what should have been done. In the software world, when I have a question I usually can formulate it exactly as needed and I will usually get a precise answer. However in electronics I get very swamped very easily and forget to do even the most basic like checking a datasheet, or check the proper section of a datasheet. It is an elementary mistake and I might get an arrogant answer for it (hasn't happened here, but I'm sure you know what I am talking about), but it just happens and has nothing to do with the attitude of the asker.

This I find sad, and I disagree. I have actually found valuable information by searching this forum, and think that the forum archives are an important resource. For example if you're wondering if Hakko soldering stations sold by DealExtreme are genuine, you may find tear downs and discussions on this forum. If you're wondering about heating element quality between Hakko and some knock-offs, then you may find that someone took the time to compare thermal recovery between heating elements. If you're wondering about a split versus solid ground plane, then you'll find that someone built two boards and posted measurements. Some of these posters have invested a significant amount of time in those posts. It's not really fair to expect these people to repost this information every time someone new comes along.

Granted, I have found precious information, I'll give you a counterexample. I have a rigol ds1052e. Hackable to 100mhz. Actually you have to read tons of posts spanning to 3 versions before my current firmware version. Does it contain the info? Yep. Do you trust the info without reading absolutely every single post? Nah. The threads themselves serve a wonderful purpose, which is the actual hacking (and I actually LOVE to read them for amusement). But I am not intersted in actually hacking it, I want it to be 100mhz and move on to other projects. Selfish? I'd say better use of our collective resources, if I don't use the time to do that I might have time to make some other project which might help the community.

(Funny thing on the above. I might even be wrong and there is very good and precise info on this, but I just can't find it. This is my point)

But if I want to know whether I'm wasting those $300 by buying that particular scope, I consider it my job to dig through that information, not to ask someone else to do it for me. The more experiences I read, the better I know what to expect. It's also often non-trivial to summarize a long thread.

Yes if you(we) are a sum of individuals. But as a community, isn't too much time wasted in this? Wouldn't be better to just not have to answer any question at all?

Yes, some things could be better stored on a wiki. I don't think the EEVblog wiki ever got enough momentum and participants to really become useful.

This is just an idea and probably not even the answer to everything. However, you don't need to build the new wikipedia. Check the OpenWRT wiki, you will get what I am talking about. Altough I haven't used it for some time, I remember finding everything I wanted fast. I hacked my router, added an sd card, new LEDs, unbricked it a couple of times via JTAG, and I didn't even have to ask a single question on the forum.

Are you volunteering your time?

Now you are just getting defensive.
Actually you are already volunteering your time by answering beginner questions and so am I (well...If I know the answer). Everybody is obviously free to use their time as they please - and I'm sorry if I sounded as if I was showing you how to use your time - but I find it much more efficient to just write a wiki than answering the same question 100 times. To answer your question, no I probably don't have enough time to be pivotal in the making of this, but I would most probably help to the extent of my knowledge (actually I would be more useful in providing hosting/administration).

One last thing...I don't want to show you how to run this place, I actually love it as it is. Nevertheless it's fun to stir things a bit.   

[alm]

You have a point here. However knowing something very well, makes an experienced person have a "distorted" idea of what should have been done.

I agree that asking the perfect question requires that you know that subject, but there's still a huge difference between something attempting to do a good job and someone not even trying. The former will miss essential details, but it will still be clear that the person invested effort in asking that question. This effort usually translates to better answers with less effort on the side of the people answering that question. Just knowing what you already tried, and that you only copied the schematic from Wikipedia but didn't read the datasheet, or attempted to use a solderless breadboard to prototype an amplifier with 1 GHz bandwidth, can be important information for solving the problem. Otherwise people helping you may also miss the trivial stuff that's stated on page 1 of the datasheet.

I have a rigol ds1052e. Hackable to 100mhz.

Yes, there are some counter examples, the DS1052E hacking is probably being the worst. And in that case it's nice if someone can give a summary. And ideally this summary is somewhere where it's easy to find (e.g. linked from the first post, or on a wiki). I'm not at all claiming that the EEVblog forum is perfect, or even good, in this regard. Usually reading the last couple of pages of a long thread gives you a decent impression of the current state, though.

Yes if you(we) are a sum of individuals. But as a community, isn't too much time wasted in this? Wouldn't be better to just not have to answer any question at all?

I don't see your point. What's wrong with the person with the problem/question investing time in getting it solved/answered? That scales much better than a smaller group of 'experts' repeatedly doing the majority of the work.

Now you are just getting defensive.

Not at all. It's just that we don't currently have an extensive EEVblog wiki, while we do have extensive forum archives. You argue in favor of a wiki for some questions (and I won't argue against that). But even if a wiki is superior, the forum is not magically going to morph into a wiki.

[alxnik]

@alm

With your last post, I get the impression that you get my point (and I get yours) so I don't want to further argue in it, I just want to summarise it a bit.

There a communities that are more focused in explicitly providing easily accesible information, the raspberry one springs up to mind which after all is backed by an organisation which wants to encourage learning. Probably the persons there have a preexisting motive in teaching rather than the device itself. Nevertheless the result is quite cool. For a beginner it is an invaluable resource and it can decrease a lot of the beginner questions. I think the magic word is "efficiency". However people are not here to work but have fun. If people are having more fun the way it is, so be it.

I decided to start participating in the forum because this is the most efficient way to improve my skills right now, and I am happy with it. However in the back of my head I will always get a bit afraid that I will get something wrong and someone will get all arrogant - at least until we all sniff each others butts.

(English is a second language to me, I hope I don't butcher it too much)

[tehmeme]

... at least until we all sniff each others butts.

 
That's a good phrase, I'll have to remember to use this in my daily life.

[Seg]

Back in the good old Usenet days, we used to have these things called FAQ lists...

This problem was solved decades ago.

Sick of answering the same question multiple times? Put it in the FAQ list. (Hint: Wiki)

Put up giant red flashing warnings everywhere to not post a question unless you've checked the FAQ. If someone does anyway, just politely direct them to the FAQ. No need to be a dick about it.

Fact is, some people just like being dicks. *cough*

[MrAureliusR]

There actually IS an EEVBlog wiki. Those of us here who have something to contribute have to talk to the Mods and/or Dave and see if we can start to get editing privileges. If we can shape up the wiki, we could easily have the best (not to mention the first) great electronics wiki on the net.

I think that's a kick ass goal to shoot for, AND it would solve a lot of the above problems. A newb asks a question that's easily answerable, and someone just links to the EEVBlog wiki page.

Who's down with that?  I've seriously thought about the wiki here many times and how great it could be. Currently it's pitiful but that's nobodies fault, we just need to pitch in and shape it up.

[Smokey]

You wouldn't have to start from scratch.  A whole lot of wiki pages could get pulled straight from forum posts with minimal editing.  There are really some gems floating around here. 

[c4757p]

Second! This is a good idea.

[Fsck]

There actually IS an EEVBlog wiki. Those of us here who have something to contribute have to talk to the Mods and/or Dave and see if we can start to get editing privileges. If we can shape up the wiki, we could easily have the best (not to mention the first) great electronics wiki on the net.

I think that's a kick ass goal to shoot for, AND it would solve a lot of the above problems. A newb asks a question that's easily answerable, and someone just links to the EEVBlog wiki page.

Who's down with that?  I've seriously thought about the wiki here many times and how great it could be. Currently it's pitiful but that's nobodies fault, we just need to pitch in and shape it up.

didn't know there was a wiki. it'd probably save a lot of the new threads especially if the wiki is kept constantly updated.

[ve7xen]

It would be a lot easier for everyone to use the wiki if it were attached to the same user database as the forum. That alone would probably make it much more attractive for people to use and update.

[MrAureliusR]

Even if there was just a link at the top you mean? I noticed that too, you have to go to eevblog.com directly to access it. Also, there's no page create ability.

The wiki needs the following:
a) ability to register thru email verification
b) page create for registered users only
c) a trial period of anonymous edits to see if it gets nailed with vandals and/or spam
d) rules such as no brand suggestions (that's what the blog is for), stick to practical approaches. Wikipedia already has a thousand words on Ohm's law, we need practical articles BUT we don't want to be Instructables II
e) I know I only have a hundred and something posts but I'm volunteering right now to be a mod or admin or whatever of the wiki. I've been a constructive editor and contributor to Wikipedia for over 6 years and I'm very good at editing and keeping things easy to understand. We're going to have to see what Dave says but I for one have the initiative to start writing helpful articles based off of my experience. Of course everything needs to be cited to be useful.

What does everyone think? Should we go to Dave?

Typed using Hacker's Keyboard for Android