Soldering station for a Newbie

[kuemmel]

Sure:
https://www.weidinger.eu/shop/loettechnik/jbc/jbc_loet-_und_entloetgeraete/jbc_compact_line/wl26830

Most selled JBC Station in Germany.

[stj]

maybe, but i wouldnt buy an analog station.

maybe you should buy the handle and build a base:
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7218&p=61175

[KL27x]

The numbers on a digital display mean nothing different to me than the position of a dial. I'm not sure how there is any practical difference.

Adjust temp up when the joints aren't reflowing fast enough. Turn it down when you are burning too much solder flux and having to clean the tip too often. The actual numbers don't matter. And even if they did, the numbers off a dial vs a digital display are not any different.

The only practical difference I can see for a digital display is you can see when the tip is hot after a cold start, if you watch the readout, I guess. The last time I used my Hakko 888D for an onsite task, I never even looked at the display beyond noticing that it turned red when I first turned it on. Personally, I prefer the analog version. A lot of people do.



 

[Kbird]

maybe, but i wouldnt buy an analog station.

maybe you should buy the handle and build a base:
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7218&p=61175

He would need a FX888D to make the Controller     but then if you have the FX888D you most likely don't need the Controller ?  at least not as a beginner , (like me or him) personally I am happy with the FX888D and think it will last me may years....

KB

[P90]

I too prefer an analog knob, the digital display does nothing for me. I don't even look at the numbers, I just turn the knob up or down depending on the feel of the solder flow...

[stj]

a digital display opens up the possibility of presets.
yes, i know you can just turn the knob! 

[KL27x]

^ Sorry. I suppose there's that. I use 3 presets on my 888D. On my analog 888, I use 12:00, 2:00, and everything between.

[P90]

I have two stations with different size tips installed, covers most stuff...

[KL27x]

One place where I really rather have a dial is on a hot air gun. I am stunned by how good the 858D is for under $30.00. But I am annoyed with the buttons. I'm not even sure that presets would be sufficient on a hot air station. My last one had 3, and I never settled into using them. I'm too often changing for many variables. And using it for other things way below the melting point of solder, to boot. Click, click, click, click, click,...

[tooki]

You may also wanna consider Ersa. Other than the iCON pico (which is made in China), they're all made in Germany, and what I like about them is the extremely short distance to the tip -- the iron really feels like a pencil, it's great.

I have the iCON nano and it's great. (The only things I would improve on it are small things: only two buttons for control, the LCD isn't backlit, and the power switch is on the back.) It uses conventional heating, but is extremely responsive thanks to having huge power reserves.

The Ersa tips are inexpensive and durable. This can be a big advantage over some other brands, especially when integrated heaters come into play.

[Neomys Sapiens]

Keep away from all the No-Name and China stuff.
JBC is very nice, but due to the active tips and lower market penetration quite expensive.
The advantage of Weller and Ersa (here in Germany) is the availability of second-market accessories, which outweighs minor technical differences. With the JCB, you will have problems getting affordable tips and you should rememder that tips DO wear out. Also, having the right tip for something outweighs many other factors, so the (continued) availability of tips within your budgetary constraints is important. It is of absolutely no use to cling to a worn tip because you can't afford the replacement.

[mauroh]

I started a specific thread for this, but I think it was better to post it here, I'll delate it...

Original post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/bakon-bk950d-soldering-station-my-opinion!!/msg1226616/#msg1226616

After reading several threads on general advise for a beginners soldering station, apparently the Bakon BK950D looks like a good candidate, so I bought one myself and give it a try. (also the heating element of my Weller WSD81 decided it was time to retire...)
I made a short video with the unboxing and first impression.
Enjoy my Itanglish 

I've used it for the last month (almost every day!!!) , for what is worth i'm pretty impressed and it does what I need.
I think the T12 cartridge will push it a step ahead of the usual Hakko 936 commonly suggested for beginners.

The only downside I can think of is the absense of a decent stand and the overall quality can't be the best for 25Euros.
I'll let you know how long the tips will last and if it will explode in the next few days 

[romhunter]

I'd recommend a Weller WS-81 or WSD-81, they're very nice, durable, and basically survive and type of torture you throw at them. Hakko FX-888 would be nice too, I have it right here on my bench. That would be a good start if you're just getting started, don't spend too much on iron but not too little.

If you want to stick to electronics for a long time, I'd recommend Metcal MX-500. Have 2 right here, never failed me and it can solder a threaded nut to another, it is a beast.

[KL27x]

@Mauroh :

Interesting that this iron took 22 seconds to melt solder.

I have read that the genuine hakko FX-951 takes something close to 5 seconds. So now I have to wonder what gives. Spec on the Bakon950D says 75W. Same as the Hakko.

I always wondered how T12 tip using only 15% more power can heat up that much faster than an 888.... which takes about 20 seconds from cold. I understand that the feedback loop can be tighter, which means you can potentially run at slightly lower temp for given joint sizes. But that doesn't significantly affect cold start time. Just looking at the tip, I can't figure out where it is that much more efficient. It looks like a significant chunk of metal... what is highly thermally capacitive and conductive, one might presume. When you swap a hot tip, is the entire back of the tip cold, or some other magic like that, due to special alloy and composite construction?

Or are FX951 users deluded when they say a cold start takes like 5 seconds?

[stj]

could be that the bakon uses a lower voltage.
the T12 is intended afaik for 24v,
i'v seen people run them from 12 to 32v so far!!!


the thermal mass is only in the last centimeter or so of the cartridge btw, the rest is a hollow tube.
so it's actual mass is lower than any conventional iron.

[stj]

cook that bitch! 

[KL27x]

https://youtu.be/KUNvtogHwMQ?t=936
Here's a vid. According to the time stamps, it takes 17 seconds from cold start to reach 750F. Which is oddly pretty close to what you would expect compared to an 888, when you factor the 15% power difference. But then guy then says "what I read is that it takes 6 seconds to heat up," after just watching the one right in front of him, which he just flipped on himself, take 3x that long. I don't get it.

the thermal mass is only in the last centimeter or so of the cartridge btw, the rest is a hollow tube.
so it's actual mass is lower than any conventional iron.

So you think the actual mass of the tip is lower than T18 tips? This would make sense as to why it could warm up faster. But now I wonder if it actually does warm up significantly faster. lol. I mean significantly more than you would expect with 15% more power, at least.

[Electro Fan]

Anyone with a Weller WESD51 know how long it takes to reach 750F from a cold start?  I'm pretty sure it's longer than the other models cited here - just curious to know how long the WESD51 should take to reach 750F.  Thx

[stj]

someone should stick a scope or voltmeter on the bakon.
i do know it heats in bursts to reduce overshoot - you see that in the video.
if it had a curve table in the mcu it could just go dc until the last second, that would probably heat twice as fast or more but need more software.

[KL27x]

if it had a curve table in the mcu it could just go dc until the last second, that would probably heat twice as fast or more but need more software.

I bet it uses AC. But aside from that, if it uses PID algorithm, it would be a pretty terrible coder to make it throttle back from full power when it's still way under set temp. If PID is holding it back, here, it has TOO MUCH software. Of the useless variety. The reason to have X watts of power is because the iron should USE all X watts when it needs it.

[stj]

http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7218&p=61175

some video's there to show heatup time of some irons.
all on the same controller - so a fair comparison.

damn, those weller microtweezers are fast!! 

[stj]

I bet it uses AC.

you would lose that bet, it's a switching psu with a rectified & smoothed output.

[mauroh]

Just for fun I'll try to verify the waveform with the oscilloscope, but I think the heat up time will depend also on the final temperature set.

On my video the first power up was made with the default temp set at 250 degree.
I'll measure the time setting 450 as power up set temperature.

Btw I think the point of this thread was to give some advise to a beginner choosing a soldering station and I think with all pros and cons the BK950D can be listed as a good starting point.

Mauro

[KL27x]

Mostly, it looks quite capable. Honestly, warm up time is one of my biggest concerns... not that it is the most important thing about an iron. But that it gives me an idea of the actual power output and the worst case performance... imo, this worst case would be bare thermostatic control, which really ain't bad.

The insanely glaring flaw of this iron is the stand. You gotta be kidding me.

DC, AC... ok. yeah, I had a brain fart. Just looking at the size of it, it should be obvious to anyone else. I'm having a bad decade. Any case, if it is not using "straight DC" or 99% duty cycle PWM when warming up, as well as much of the time when under use, the PID has gone way out of the way to be beyond suck.

[mauroh]

As promised I made a quick video measuring with an oscilloscope (Rigol DS1104Z) the waveforms applied to the tip of the Bakon BK950D during warm-up.
See the detail in the specific thread.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/bakon-bk950d-soldering-station-my-opinion!!/msg1229266/#msg1229266