Starting a new beginner lab

[Rigby]

I'm with everyone in the "take your time" camp.  I won't be going bananas, spending it all in a day.  I'm plenty stupid, but I'm not that stupid.

I guess what I'm after is more of a "given that budget, and those projects, a good DSO would be _____" as an example.   

Truthfully, most of the projects I have on the plate are digital, and will require as much software development as hardware development, but as I gain confidence, I'm going to start tackling the arcade monitor chassis project, and that's got to be 100% analog.

No offense but that is the WORST advice I've ever seen. You should never advise anyone to sell their analog scope. I wish I had one! I'm glad to see the OP is ignoring this bad piece of advice.

What is the main reason, for their usefulness or as collector items?

I used analog scopes professionally for few years, including ones with memory memory, but since I started to use DSOs am not looking back.

Good question.  I've no idea, but there's gotta be something.  Doesn't matter, though; I like the look of it and I'm keeping it, even though there are better models available with more features for less money.

[Shock]

Here are some advantages of certain analog scopes over certain DSOs that I have read:

Price if you only need a limited set of features
Better to learn the basics on first
Easier to use for basic functions
Handle high voltage input overloads
Better display fidelity, displays superior zoomed in baseline view of a waveform
Less prone to distortion and noise
Useful for showing crossover distortion in audio work
Easier to repair/schematics

The exact same could be said for certain DSOs depending on your experience.
On DSOs you can get features like storage, on screen display, filtering and math functions that are missing from your average analog scope.
The difference is becoming less contentious as DSOs are improving and becoming more affordable.

I personally think it's a good idea to have a dual channel analog scope as well as a DSO if you have the need.

[ElectroIrradiator]

Additional advantages of analog scope, all of which are subject to personal opinion and preferences:

*) Some high quality analog scopes have additional functionality, which may be useful for some people. For instance my own primary scope has an 8 (eight) digit hardware frequency counter/timer, complete with the option of using an external, high stability timebase. So my scope doubles as my frequency counter.

Other interesting 'features' are potentially a high bandwidth for relatively low cost (if you can maintain a scope of suitable complexity).

*) Scopes like the Tek 7000 series are modular through the use of plug-ins, so you can build custom measurement setups, based on needs and preferences. Some of the possible options are unmatched even today by any modern DSO that I know of. That is, unless you intend to add additional, external hardware. Very low level uV/div is one option, which some people need.

*) No DSO I have seen, can match the quality of a good analog scope's X-Y mode. I use this when building custom test setups, like when sweeping LC filters. X-Y mode looks ugly on most inexpensive DSOs IMO. Check forum contributor GK's threads on his analog computer project for more examples of using an analog scope's beautiful X-Y mode to good effect.

*) Z-axis blanking and modulation. Having a Z-axis modulation bandwidth of over 10 MHz, which some analog scopes have, allows you to watch (analog) video on the scope in X-Y mode. Z-axis blanking also comes in handy if you like to build your own less-than-trivial test setups, consisting of several instruments wired up together.

[AG6QR]

Here are some advantages of certain analog scopes over certain DSOs that I have read:

A couple more:
 
Absolutely no aliasing effects, ever.
No "blind time" in XY mode.

[zapta]

I see that analog scopes are still live and kicking.

Do people here still buy new analog scopes or are they mostly used second hand ebay style?

[nanofrog]

I see that analog scopes are still live and kicking.

Do people here still buy new analog scopes or are they mostly used second hand ebay style?

Primarily, if not exclusively, 2nd hand. Not sure if anyone is still building analog scopes these days.

[Thor-Arne]

A quick search on RS turned up with Metrix, ISO-TECH and Hameg.

[dr.diesel]

Do people here still buy new analog scopes or are they mostly used second hand ebay style?

Hameg still makes one:

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/hameg/oscilloscopes/hm400.htm

[zapta]

Primarily, if not exclusively, 2nd hand. Not sure if anyone is still building analog scopes these days.

Ok, so it is a Disappearing World thing then, like tubes, vinyls, nixies, dot matrix printers and  manual transmissions.

I understand the need though, I am still driving manual transmission

[ElectroIrradiator]

Hameg still makes one:

"Z-Input (Intens. modulation):    max. + 5V (TTL), 10kHz"

[xolott]

Hi, I think that a good multimeter is a nice initial point to make your Electronic Lab. I have a 80's Fluke and still kick some "new" unit here in Venezuela.

A Rigol DSO is a very nice product for the price! I have intention to buy one near in the future.

[Dave Turner]

Checkout  Voltcraft VC630-2 and 610/1, 2 and 1 channel respectively. www.rapidonline.com. For relatively cheap new ones.

I float my boat with Dave J and many others, analogue scopes are an excellent addition to a workshop.

For fundamental experimentation and understanding you can't beat them

[moepower]

I got my old 20 MHz goldstar OS-7020A from asking the technical officer for the electrical eng labs at my old university.  They were more than happy to donate one to me.  They've all converted to digital oscilloscopes and have tons of these old ones in a warehouse.

So if you got those kind of connections, make use of them. 

[rolycat]

Do people here still buy new analog scopes or are they mostly used second hand ebay style?

Hameg still makes one:

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/hameg/oscilloscopes/hm400.htm

There are still some for sale, but Hameg announced that they were stopping production of analogue scopes last year:

http://blog.hameg.com/?p=84

Primarily, if not exclusively, 2nd hand. Not sure if anyone is still building analog scopes these days.

Ok, so it is a Disappearing World thing then, like tubes, vinyls, nixies, dot matrix printers and  manual transmissions.

I understand the need though, I am still driving manual transmission

It's only Americans who are abandoning manual transmissions; 75% of European cars have a manual gearbox.

[zapta]

It's only Americans who are abandoning manual transmissions; 75% of European cars have a manual gearbox.

Apparently the good people a at Posrche, Audi Ferrari and Lamborghini did not hear about it  ;-)

http://www.caradvice.com.au/127796/lamborghini-confirms-the-death-of-the-manual-supercar/

http://www.carscoops.com/2012/02/2013-porsche-911-gt3-to-ditch-manual.html

http://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-Phasing-Out-Manual-Transmissions-In-Europe-In-Favor-Of-DSG-67666/

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Community/Car-Magazines-Blogs/Tim-Pollard-Blog2/Ferrari-click-clack-manual-transmissions-RIP/

BTW, modern automatic transmission are faster and and more gas efficient than manual.

[rolycat]

It's only Americans who are abandoning manual transmissions; 75% of European cars have a manual gearbox.

Apparently the good people a at Posrche, Audi Ferrari and Lamborghini did not hear about it  ;-)

http://www.caradvice.com.au/127796/lamborghini-confirms-the-death-of-the-manual-supercar/

http://www.carscoops.com/2012/02/2013-porsche-911-gt3-to-ditch-manual.html

http://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-Phasing-Out-Manual-Transmissions-In-Europe-In-Favor-Of-DSG-67666/

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Community/Car-Magazines-Blogs/Tim-Pollard-Blog2/Ferrari-click-clack-manual-transmissions-RIP/

BTW, modern automatic transmission are faster and and more gas efficient than manual.

Your examples are not conventional automatics, but automated manual gearboxes like the Audi DSG. And they are mostly in supercars because they are still expensive.

No doubt eventually the prices will come down and they will be more widely adopted, but until then Europeans prefer more control over their cars.

[Dave]

It's only Americans who are abandoning manual transmissions; 75% of European cars have a manual gearbox.

Apparently the good people a at Posrche, Audi Ferrari and Lamborghini did not hear about it  ;-)

Oh yeah, because everyone here drives a Porsche, Audi, Ferrari or Lamborghini.
Of course you are going to have an automatic dual-clutch gearbox in a high performance car, it's the fastest and most efficient way to shift between gears.

Here's a kicker: In Slovenia, if you want to acquire a driving license, you need to do it in a manual transmission car. Well, you can do it in an automatic, but then you get a limited license which only allows you to drive automatics. In other words, if you can't drive a manual, you are considered incompetent.

[calexanian]

It's because of emissions standards here in California. They have screwed up the throttle responce here so the emissions systems can keep up and it makes things like rev matching and heel toe all messed up making driving a manual not pleasurable, and as goes California so falls in the rest of the country.

[GreyWoolfe]

Hey Zapta, I'm with you, I refuse to abandon my manual transmission.  2001 Chevy Cavalier with 187,000 miles or 300,947 kilometers and still has the original clutch and the transmission was last serviced with an issue at 14,000 miles.  A manual transmission makes a subcompact car with a 2.2 liter engine a lot more fun to drive .  I have owned manual transmission cars for years and if I have to keep buying used cars to keep driving a stick, I will.

Tom, NW0LF

[Rigby]

I got a 2013 Hyundai Elantra on Nov 16 last year and it's a traditional manual transmission.  It's fun to drive, and it was inexpensive.  Put 45k miles on the thing so far, all at about 41mpg according to the app on my phone.

They're not going away, you just have to wait for one to show up on the lot or order one.

[tehmeme]

Here's a kicker: In Slovenia, if you want to acquire a driving license, you need to do it in a manual transmission car. Well, you can do it in an automatic, but then you get a limited license which only allows you to drive automatics. In other words, if you can't drive a manual, you are considered incompetent.

it's the same in the UK.

[MrAureliusR]

Guys, I'm not a moderator, but these posts are getting very off-topic. Might I suggest you start a new thread in the General forum? Or copy these posts into a new thread? Maybe a mod can help.

Not that it's a big deal but this thread is supposed to be about starting a new beginner lab.

[GreyWoolfe]

Keep the analog scope.  I have a Hantek DSO5102B (second hand) and 2 analogs, a Tek 2235 and a BK Precision 5100, both 100 MHz and obviously second hand.  I do plan to sell them both at some point only because I want a 4 channel scope.  Knowing me, I will save up and buy the 4 channel and end up keeping one of the 2 channel analogs if for nothing else, because the granddaughter that lives with us loves to look at and help make the magic (Lissajous patterns)  .  Take you time and research your purchases.  I rushed a couple purchases that even though they weren't much money, the money could have been saved toward something more useful.

Tom, NW0LF

[Maturola]

Keep the analog scope.  I have a Hantek DSO5102B (second hand) and 2 analogs, a Tek 2235 ...

How do you like that Hantek DSO5102B? I've read some of the reviews and comment from here and other forums but would love to heard your opinion since you have the tek 2235  as well

[Kohanbash]

I would also recommend not forgetting some basic things such as:
Flush cutters
Fine needle nose pliers
Flux pen
probes
magnifier head piece with light
pcb holder
Solder holder
ESD mat
lights for the work area
etc..