Testing my meters

[M0BSW]

After getting bored I thought I'd test my multimeters, not a serious test , but just an excercise of curosity,
1/ Aidetek.com VC99+, have no idea what the "+" means , maybe just a bit odd remarketing of the VC99
2/Alphatek 61-322
3/Test-Lab TL34
4/ Farnell  TM2 bench meter.
Supply Watson 30amp 15 volt supply, which is calibrated proffessionally.
results.
power supply 13.8volts
1/VC 99+   13.76/77
2/Alphatek 13.79/80
3/test-lab TL 34 13.76
4 /Farnell TM2 13.8
Just a simple test here in my radio room, Dave may call all these lame arsed, cheap meters but I think for a hobbyist the just great, plus I can't afford Fluke.

[c4757p]

For what it's worth I'd call them lame-assed (I am American ) cheap meters as well. I think I'd prefer to have half as many, twice as expensive meters for the same overall cost. Perhaps something like the EX430. I have quite a collection of multimeters - didn't pay any more than $60 each, with one exception - and with a basic test like that, none of them differ even in the least significant digit. (Well, OK, the analog ones don't have least significant digits...) I just set my power supply to roughly 13 volts, and my used Fluke 8050A that I got for $30 agreed with my brand-new BK 2712 all the way out to 13.035V.

There's a lot of ground in between "VC99" and "top-of-the-line Fluke".

[M0BSW]

For what it's worth I'd call them lame-assed (I am American ) cheap meters as well. I think I'd prefer to have half as many, twice as expensive meters for the same overall cost. Perhaps something like the EX430. I have quite a collection of multimeters - didn't pay any more than $60 each, with one exception - and with a basic test like that, none of them differ even in the least significant digit. (Well, OK, the analog ones don't have least significant digits...) I just set my power supply to roughly 13 volts, and my used Fluke 8050A that I got for $30 agreed with my brand-new BK 2712 all the way out to 13.035V.

There's a lot of ground in between "VC99" and "top-of-the-line Fluke".

I've never seen a Fluke on sale in the UK for $60 which is about £40 uk pounds or one for $30 which is around £20 uk of course we then have tax on that , so ever so sorry I'm not clearly in your league , fluke over here are any where from £150 upwards,with a limited budget and a family I have to feed,I have to go for the cheap lame arsed stuff, and do the best I can.

[M0BSW]

Why would you have ten or twenty , for something basic, you even don't need more then three meters for some really big project. Can someone tell me what is the point of all this buying a lot of extremely expensive  ?

I have no idea, I thought it was a hobby, I just did a simple test with 4 meters I have two i bought and 2 that were given to me as presents,my test were out of curosity.

[T4P]

Why would you have ten or twenty , for something basic, you even don't need more then three meters for some really big project. Can someone tell me what is the point of all this buying a lot of extremely expensive  ?

Come on ... it's fun to buy meters for "evaluation"

[Mr Smiley]

With one, your never sure, 

With two, you can be confused, 

With three, you can have a weighted average, 

With ten, well, it's a bigger average and confidence can smile 

Or you can just be addicted to collecting meters, how many of you give them a little stroke after you turn them off, go on, be honest 

 

[T4P]

Yes, but electronics and collecting  is a totally different hobby.

Collecting  IS a electronics hobby.

[c4757p]

I think you misunderstood me (my fault I'm sure, sorry for the rambling post). I meant to make two separate points: 1) Good accuracy is not as expensive as Dave's latest favorite supermeter - my 8050A as an example. 2) My personal recommendation of the $50-ish EX430. It is more expensive but you don't really need four. You could spend the same money on fewer, better meters. No need to be a pathological test gear hoarder like I am.

A third point: Everyone's needs are different. If those are good enough for you, so be it. I got by with a cheap-ass RadioShack analog meter for years. Wouldn't recommend it to anyone, though. I do a lot of work with power supplies and such now, so it's nice to have many. Most of mine aren't all that great.

[M0BSW]

With one, your never sure, 

With two, you can be confused, 

With three, you can have a weighted average, 

With ten, well, it's a bigger average and confidence can smile 

Or you can just be addicted to collecting meters, how many of you give them a little stroke after you turn them off, go on, be honest 

 

Never , well except for my Farnell TM2 Bench meter, I do have a soft spot for that one,and it was the first one I bought.

[Monkeh]

you even don't need more then three meters for some really big project.

I need to see input voltage, input current, output voltage, and output current. Rats, I guess that means I need four meters.

[Mr Smiley]

I'm sure somewhere Dave says you need at least 4, current in / out -- voltage in / out. 

Plus you need a few spares for, well because 

 

[c4757p]

I'm sure somewhere Dave says you need at least 4, current in / out -- voltage in / out. 

In a pinch one will do even for that. That's what the flying probes are for. If you need to make current measurements, you can always include a small shunt resistor in series - 1 Ohm for low currents, 0.1 for higher currents - and probe the voltage across it. (Back when I couldn't afford to have more than one, my current meter had a 2-bit ADC: 00 = it's at room temperature, 01 = it's warm, 10 = I can't touch it, 11 = I can smell it. The real measurements came out only when necessary, or when Ohm's law made them more convenient.)

Of course, I'd probably be near tears if someone came and took all but one of my meters, but still, you can do it.

[Excavatoree]

With one, your never sure, 

With two, you can be confused, 

With three, you can have a weighted average, 

With ten, well, it's a bigger average and confidence can smile 

Or you can just be addicted to collecting meters, how many of you give them a little stroke after you turn them off, go on, be honest 

 

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Why would you have ten or twenty , for something basic, you even don't need more then three meters for some really big project. Can someone tell me what is the point of all this buying a lot of extremely expensive  ?

I don't know - whats the point of any hobby, anyway?  Some people collect things that aren't useful at all, and they spend more money on them.  Most of mine were 40 dollars or less, many were 20 dollars or less.  I did pay more for a bench meter, and then there was the famous Grainger sale - I got a bit carried away. (ordered 2 of the OLED display meters.)   I paid a bit more for some re-branded Fluke meters, just a collector's items.  Hey, it makes no less sense than paying hundreds of dollars in green fees/club dues to hit a white ball at a hole or drive a car in circles.  Why do people collect coins, stamps, firearms, cars, thimbles, teacups, tennis balls or any other item?  Because it's our money and we buy what we want.

[M0BSW]

Any way getting back to why I started this thread , it just the curosity that the meters are  I suppose are all within  the tolerances and if two different people took a measurement, with two different meters they would both be convinced they were right even though they could be .002 volts apart, and I wondered how many could test the same power source before two go the same reading, and having a pie & a pint at the pub last night with a friend of mine who is a professional calibrator, at a service centre here said ,even the big brand name can vary, so I'm taking all mine down to his shop today and try them out on his test equipment, and another point he raised was that he believed that my Farnell TM2 it would take a lot to beat its accuracy,even though it's analogue, I asked about fluke, his response " Big brand name lots of money thrown at avertising the brand name , your always going to spend more even just for the name, good but not the elite".

[saturation]

Its always good to test your gear to insure you'll have faith in them.  You don't have to get a Fluke to get  accuracy, but its the toughness and years of repuation that can't be beat, so you buy once and ne'er again.  You can find this model easily on eBay for under $100.  Its a stock model but  Fluke's are built to milspec, so its ready for extremes out of the box.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-249-agilent-u1272a-multimeter-review/





http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/community/fluke-news-plus/ArticleCategories/Temperature/Antarctica.htm

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/community/fluke-news-plus/ArticleCategories/DMMs/Fluke+in+Iraq.htm

[G7PSK]

Do Fluke give the meters to people and organizations as shown in their publicity shots in order to get the bragging rights or are the meters genuinely chosen by the end users. After all what is the cost of a few meters to Fluke when theire main market is the tens of thousands electricians in the world which is their main market. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/smiliey_dmm.gif

[M0BSW]

I've often wondered are they that good or is it youv'e given me a free one so there the best ever, that happens at work a sales rep comes in and then all of a sudden it's the best products made.

[saturation]

A bit of both during the 1980s, but if the meters malfunction, it will also be bad publicity.  Fluke's reputation is so large today, they no longer give away promo meters, AFAIK. Also, the military market is very large, that it would not be possible to give them free, cost wise.  All the industrial meters are made to US military specs, so it can be purchased OTS, no special models are made for them like the early days with the 27FM.  FWIW, that shuttle DMM, the 8020 series, was also OTS, not specially made.



BTW, f you really want a good basic DMM, the 25?? or 27 FM can be eBay for typically under $50, and they are as tough as the 28II, although not officially IP rated or CAT rated.

I've personally taken Flukes on ships for weeks, exposed to salt spray, extreme heat and humidity, the usual drops and spills, and the basic 77 and 80 series hold up, and never need adjustment. 

Its a reason you see only Fluke's as a common site on USN fleet maintenance, shipboard.



FWIW, I tested an Agilent 1272a for over a year, and while its a tough competitor to the Fluke 87V, most of what's I need  is what the 87V already delivers, and the Agilent 1272a is just less ergonomic. 

Agilent is a better DMM for your money if price is the same, but when it comes to usability, the 87V wins due to its simplicity; OTAH, I've  been using it for decades, so it could also be just comfort knowing were all the controls are.

Do Fluke give the meters to people and organizations as shown in their publicity shots in order to get the bragging rights or are the meters genuinely chosen by the end users. After all what is the cost of a few meters to Fluke when theire main market is the tens of thousands electricians in the world which is their main market. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/smiliey_dmm.gif

[M0BSW]

I must say I could be tempted by the FM27, that looks quality, I'll be scouring E-Bay

[M0BSW]

Just saw a couple on E-Bay £260.00 uk approw $350, and one for £160 $approx $200.      $50 I wish

[grenert]

Just saw a couple on E-Bay £260.00 uk approw $350, and one for £160 $approx $200.      $50 I wish

Here's one from a seller who will ship to UK for $20.  The last one he had sold for $56.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-27FM-DIGITAL-MULTIMETER-/321037106295?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abf4d7c77

So about $76 shipped 

[M0BSW]

That interesting thank you

[Mr Smiley]

I can vouch for that guy 

I got one a few months ago, total including shipping and CUSTOMS:(  to UK was £50.

It was absolutely mint, there built like bricks and you really could build a house with them.

The packaging was excellent 

He puts one up every month, he must have loads of them, so if you don't get one, keep going back and one will appear, not always in a general search, but keep checking his for sale items ( ps keep below £20 and you'll eventually get one )

And there the true rms version

Mr Smiley 

[M0BSW]

Thank you I'll put him as a favourite seller then I can go back , you gave me some good advice there, thank you again
Paul

[Simon]

Yes, but electronics and collecting  is a totally different hobby.

and you an expert i guess !