The Art of Electronics

[Heithrun]

I've started reading The Art of Electronics 2nd Edition.  The book has exercises but, does not give you the answers.  So i did a search on the web if anyone has listed them.  And no one has, which really surprises me.  The book has been out for 26 years.  I was wondering if it's a taboo to do so or has no one just bothered to do it?

[mazurov]

Have you checked accompanying "Student Manual", ISBN 978-521-37709-6 ?

[Heithrun]

No, I dont have the student manual.  But the Student Manual isnt an answer key to the main book, its supplemental material.

[JacquesBBB]

By the way,
I just received this email from amazon.co.uk

We have received new release date information related to the order you placed on January 25 2015 (Order# xxx).

The items listed below will actually be dispatched sooner than we had originally expected based on the new release date:

 Horowitz, Paul "The Art of Electronics"
   Previous estimated arrival date: May 07 2015 - May 08 2015
   New estimated arrival date: April 15 2015 - April 16 2015

So the new edition will be soon here

[Mr.B]

I am looking forward to this book.

I haven't had such an email.

I pre-purchased on January 21.

My Amazon account still shows:
"
Delivery estimate:
We need a little more time to provide you with a good estimate.
We'll notify you via e-mail as soon as we have an estimated delivery date.
"

[EEVblog]

We're not worthy, we're not worthy, we're not worthy...

[Mr.B]

So Dave, by that picture I can assume it is the bible of electronics...
I am very happy I have ordered it if that is your highly esteemed opinion.
Cannot wait for it to be shipped.

[JamesHowlett]

I would like to buy one to improve my electronics knowledge but It is expensive

[tggzzz]

I would like to buy one to improve my electronics knowledge but It is expensive

Knowledge has always been expensive.  Ignorance is even more expensive.

Standard "joke"...

Technician is called in to fix a car, hums and hars a bit, then thumps the engine. It starts working and he submits an invoice for £100. Customer moans that £100 is much too expensive for hitting an engine. The technician, concurs, and resubmits an invoice for "£1 for thumping the engine, £99 for knowing where and how hard to thump".

(Except for the invoice, I once did that, much to the owners relief and surprise!)

[JacquesBBB]

Dave,
I share your admiration for this book. I have read many  technical  books in various fields and
there are only very few that have the clarity of writing and deep content of  "The Art of Electronics".

@JamesHowlett :
It would be expensive if you were thinking of it as an ordinary book, like many of those that are
more  consumable that could be thrown  away just after the reading (if ever you read it).
The last edition of  "The Art of Electronics" last for 26 years and is still a good book.
Moreover,  if you were limiting your electronic library to this single book,
it would still  be a decent electronic library.

[janoc]

It is really a good book. I have an "Indian" version of the 2nd ed. (available through eBay, basically no color images/text and cheaper paper in a "paperbacky" binding, but costs a lot less compared to the "western" edition) and it really is a bible. Both because of the volume and the content.

The digital stuff is fairly obsolete in the 2nd ed (obviously, considering that it is 20+ years old), but the basics and the analog part in general are still great. I have learned a lot from it already.

I do wonder whether it is worth the money to buy the 3rd ed, given that I have the older edition. I don't care all that much about the digital stuff because that I can find elsewhere already.

[JacquesBBB]

@janoc

I have the same Indian version of the 2nd edition, quite surprisingly available  on amazon. I bought also the student manual from the same source which is also a very nice book for practical lab classes.

I have the same feeling as  you :  the analog part is the one that matters in "The art of Electronics". This is the one that I would like to see updated in the new edition. We will see soon, as probably  Dave will give an account of  the content of his exemplary.

[JamesHowlett]

I would like to buy one to improve my electronics knowledge but It is expensive

Knowledge has always been expensive.  Ignorance is even more expensive.

Standard "joke"...

Technician is called in to fix a car, hums and hars a bit, then thumps the engine. It starts working and he submits an invoice for £100. Customer moans that £100 is much too expensive for hitting an engine. The technician, concurs, and resubmits an invoice for "£1 for thumping the engine, £99 for knowing where and how hard to thump".

(Except for the invoice, I once did that, much to the owners relief and surprise!)

Nice joke and you are absolutely right. There are tons of information on internet but having all complete in a "useful" book is precious. I check my institutes library today but no chance I may order a used copy of second edition any time soon

[drakke]

So is the third edition a significant upgrade over the 2nd edition?

[JacquesBBB]

You can already compare the Table of contents by downloading the full Table of content of Edition 3 at

http://artofelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/AoE_3e_table-of-contents.pdf

It seems that they have  avoided  to be specific on any short lived microcontroller, and
really focused on the fundamental concepts of electronics.
In particular, Arduino is only mentioned and occupied less than a page, which is in my sense a very good choice.

This edition time of validity can thus be expected to be even longer than the previous one.

[notaroketscientist]

We're not worthy, we're not worthy, we're not worthy...

The photo is all the endorsement anyone should need. I bought it.

[drakke]

It seems that they have  avoided  to be specific on any short lived microcontroller, and
really focused on the fundamental concepts of electronics.
In particular, Arduino is only mentioned and occupied less than a page, which is in my sense a very good choice.

Should these chapters be read sequentially or is this more of a reference?
How much prior competence is required to take full advantage?

[JacquesBBB]

Let me just quote myself from another post on "Practical Electronics for Inventors".

Two years ago, I started electronics as a complete
beginner, there were two books that I found very helpful to start :

- Make : Electronics from Charles Platt (which is at a lower level than Practical electronics ..)
- Practical Electronics for Inventors (which  has also the advantage of being very cheap).

Then I went  to "The Art of Electronics" which is a pure marvel. But it was too difficult as a first step,
because of the too rich content. So Practical Electronics was a good intermediary step for
The art of Electronics.

Now that  know a little bit more, I never go back to "Make: Electronics",  but I come back to "Practical electronics",
and most often  to "The art of Electronics" which is the kind of book that you will never master completely.
Every time you read again a chapter, you find something new.

In addition to that, I would say that if you are already familiar with electronics, you can go directly to AOE.  The difficulty I mention is not from the technical part, but from the density of the content. The mathematical part is limited to a minimum, and summarised in a 3 pages appendix ( cosine, sine, exponential, derivative ).

I have read it entirely once, and then go back to it regularly as a reference. I am really looking forward  getting my new copy, and I am anticipating the joy I will have to read it again entirely  in this new edition, which looks extremely promising from the detailed Table of content.

[mrgregs]

*Looks over at his copy of the first edition, held together with tape*

There's a second edition?? 

And who knows, I might need to design a 8085 based computer at some point!

Seriously, though, it is a wonderful book, but not for the faint hearted - as JacquesBBB says, the content is very dense. Nonetheless it is the book you find yourself keep going back to, just to brush up on theory, as it is written so well.

[tggzzz]

The photo is all the endorsement anyone should need. I bought it.

Right action, but  for the wrong reason Avoid personality cults!

[tggzzz]

It seems that they have  avoided  to be specific on any short lived microcontroller, and
really focused on the fundamental concepts of electronics.
In particular, Arduino is only mentioned and occupied less than a page, which is in my sense a very good choice.

Should these chapters be read sequentially or is this more of a reference?

Yes

How much prior competence is required to take full advantage?

To fully understand, you need their level of competence

However, repeated reading will allow you to asymptotically approach their competence. Hopefully that will allow you to become more competent than them in your chosen field.

[JacquesBBB]

Blofeld posted this in the general chat

I have done a short review of Chapter 9 (Voltage Regulation and Power Conversion) of the 3rd edition. Rest assured that this is perfectly legal, I have linked to the post by Winfield Hill where he says that "You can share the link, and the file as well".

http://www.wisewarthog.com/electronics/horowitz-hill-the-art-of-electronics-3rd-edition-chapter9.html

But the  links are not direct.
I thus post here  the link to Winfield Hill message

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/hill$20art/sci.electronics.design/PSTqKWlJ_TM/N1NaFGaZCCgJ

and the direct link to chapter 9 of AOE as posted in Winfield Hill message

Here's a dropbox link.  You can share the link, and the file as well.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8gu22ficfac3pz/AoE-III_ch-9_109pgs.pdf?dl=0

[bitwelder]

For the professionals (in electronic field) who already have AoE on their shelf: when/how do you use that book?

[f5r5e5d]

I have only skimmed a borrowed copy - as a experienced analog circuit design engineer I expect I'm no longer a good judge of what a intro book should be  - but I found the slant, some diversions into what I thought were technical irrelevancies jarring given the reputation of the book

I would recommend getting lots of differing views on anything you are trying to learn - books, lectures, app notes

but a few decades of experience can turn you back to a greater appreciation of Uni EE curriculum - "there is nothing so practical as a good theory" takes on more meaning as you gain experience

[JacquesBBB]

For the professionals (in electronic field) who already have AoE on their shelf: when/how do you use that book?

I would say that a good start would be to take the book from the shelf and start reading it. 

[rdl]

I can't believe the ridiculously high price they expect for this book. I bought the second edition about 6 or 7 years ago. In no way was it worth the price I paid. This 3rd edition is 50% more expensive than what I paid for the last one. Can you guess if I will waste my money again?

[JacquesBBB]

@rdl
I wish also  it were less expensive, but  most  of the hardcover  university books are expensive, in contrast to some of the books more aimed towards a general audience like "Practical electronics for inventors" which you can get for 23.5$.

The second edition of AOE  is listed 130.7 $ at amazon.com  which is larger than
the third edition at 110 $ . The increase that you mention probably just reflects the general increase of living, or maybe you did not get the
original hardcover edition (I got an Indian edition at a very low price).

If you look to the list of University  recent hardcover books in electronics,  ranked by "new and popular" on amazon.com,  you find  in the first ranks.

200$         :Electric Circuits (10th Edition)Jan 19, 2014 by James W. Nilsson and Susan Riedel     
  89.41$    :Signal and Power Integrity - Simplified (2nd Edition)Jul 27, 2009 by Eric Bogatin
163.74$    : Electronics Fundamentals: Circuits, Devices & Applications (8th Edition)Jul 3, 2009 by Thomas L. Floyd and David M. Buchla
 185.74$    : Microelectronic Circuits (Oxford Series in Electrical & Comp. Eng.)Dec 15, 2009 by Adel S. Sedra and Kenneth C. Smith


You can wait for a cheaper softcover edition,  but if you  did not take any benefit from the second edition,  there
is probably very little chance you will   find the third edition useful.

[mtdoc]

It still kills me thinking about the fact that I sold my copy of the 1st edition for pennies at a garage sale 20 years ago.  I'd bought it for an electronics course in 1984 during my brief foray into learning electronics while studying electrophysiology as an undergraduate biology major.

I have the Indian paperback 2nd edition and the PDF.

Looking forward to my 3rd edition which is marked as "dispatched" by the Book Depository in the UK.

[JacquesBBB]

From Amazon.co.uk

We are pleased to report that the following item will dispatch sooner than expected:

 Horowitz, Paul "The Art of Electronics"
   Previous estimated arrival date: April 15 2015 - April 16 2015
   New estimated arrival date: April 07 2015

[notaroketscientist]

The photo is all the endorsement anyone should need. I bought it.

Right action, but  for the wrong reason Avoid personality cults!

This entire forum is a "personality cult" just not your personality no worry, Bob's your uncle, it's still the duck's guts.

I bought the companion lab manual a few months back from the last edition and after poking around it I knew I had to have AOE.
At 63yrs I have been reading electronics materials for over 50yrs including the US Navy's schooling materials from the 60's and 70's.
No other tome in my limited experience comes close to the substance covered or the method of delivery. The ability to convey information without the need to
bury the reader in math and formulas sets this apart from all the rest.

Dave Jones delivery style is unique and very effective. His endorsement implies a similar effectiveness. The implication is accurate. 

[bookaboo]

I ordered from Waterstones in UK on Friday, got an "out of stock" email on Monday and a "despatched" email today.

[tggzzz]

The photo is all the endorsement anyone should need. I bought it.

Right action, but  for the wrong reason Avoid personality cults!

This entire forum is a "personality cult" just not your personality no worry, Bob's your uncle, it's still the duck's guts.

I bought the companion lab manual a few months back from the last edition and after poking around it I knew I had to have AOE.
At 63yrs I have been reading electronics materials for over 50yrs including the US Navy's schooling materials from the 60's and 70's.
No other tome in my limited experience comes close to the substance covered or the method of delivery. The ability to convey information without the need to
bury the reader in math and formulas sets this apart from all the rest.

I've been recommending the book to others since the mid 80s, so clearly I agree 

Dave Jones delivery style is unique and very effective. His endorsement implies a similar effectiveness. The implication is accurate. 

Fortunately his style lacks all pomposity, to the point of being humourous. If it wasn't it would be intolerable.

But I still hate "personality cults", or anything else which has the appearance of "proof by reference to personal authority"!

[smjcuk]

Couldn't agree more. If you think these EE personality cults are bad, you want to look at the open source software culture.

One should always trust multiple sources and ignore Amazon reviews (I'm sure that reviewer eggboy65503 hasn't read 990 books in his time). No book is worthy of worship independently.

Now for a contrarian POV. I worked in the defense electronics industry (the big R) for a total of six months back in 1997 before I got lured into writing software (less responsibility for killing people). Now there were hundreds of EEs there and not once was I recommended TAOE nor saw a copy in the labs. Knowledge flowed freely not through books and references but on paper and time spent in the cafe. The only things I was recommended was Calculus For The Practical Man (1946!) and get a TI85 as it does determinants on arbitrary matrix sizes unlike shoddy Casio tech, it was faster than a pencil and you could write games on it.

I have a copy of TAOE 2nd edition on my shelf which is barely used. 300 pages are next to useless and the rest unnecessarily verbose as a reference and tutorial.

I'll buy the 3rd edition out of interest as those 300 pages should then be up to date for about 5 years. However I'll wait for the 'international edition' to appear like I did last time and get my good Indian friend to post me a copy from there. (Yes they price fix books and provide 'affordable' editions for other countries). The paperback is easier to handle as well

I'll probably be flamed off the forum now much as if I'd insulted a religious text.

[notaroketscientist]

 

Couldn't agree more. If you think these EE personality cults are bad, you want to look at the open source software culture.

One should always trust multiple sources and ignore Amazon reviews (I'm sure that reviewer eggboy65503 hasn't read 990 books in his time). No book is worthy of worship independently.

Now for a contrarian POV. I worked in the defense electronics industry (the big R) for a total of six months back in 1997 before I got lured into writing software (less responsibility for killing people). Now there were hundreds of EEs there and not once was I recommended TAOE nor saw a copy in the labs. Knowledge flowed freely not through books and references but on paper and time spent in the cafe. The only things I was recommended was Calculus For The Practical Man (1946!) and get a TI85 as it does determinants on arbitrary matrix sizes unlike shoddy Casio tech, it was faster than a pencil and you could write games on it.

I have a copy of TAOE 2nd edition on my shelf which is barely used. 300 pages are next to useless and the rest unnecessarily verbose as a reference and tutorial.

I'll buy the 3rd edition out of interest as those 300 pages should then be up to date for about 5 years. However I'll wait for the 'international edition' to appear like I did last time and get my good Indian friend to post me a copy from there. (Yes they price fix books and provide 'affordable' editions for other countries). The paperback is easier to handle as well

I'll probably be flamed off the forum now much as if I'd insulted a religious

No worry mate.....this is the beginners board. Rocket scientists such as yourselves are the ones we beginners look to for guidance and endorsements, recommendations, directions on how to become what we believe you are. Dave posted in this thread for the likes of blokes like me not so well informed untrained beginners with a thirst and passion to grasp the unfathomable depths of a discipline we dream about. Your finding it next to useless and unnecessarily verbose is likely as strong an endorsement as Dave's to someone like me who simply lacks your experience and wisdom.

Modified by Seppy due to overly excited text formatting 

[Simon]

I would tend to agree slightly. I found the second edition not as great as everyone said it was, maybe i know more than I know (better than not knowing what I don't know). To be honest with the availability of the internet my copy has just sat on the shelf. But i have ordered the 3rd edition just to see if i can prove me wrong. I find american writers annoying anyway, some forget they are writing information books and seem to think that cracking stupid jokes every page was the primary reason for the book.

[drakke]

I have a copy of TAOE 2nd edition on my shelf which is barely used. 300 pages are next to useless and the rest unnecessarily verbose as a reference and tutorial.

How useful is it for a non-EE?

Someone who knows NOTHING about electronics. Can they get a basic foundation from which to explore deeper into specific topics?

[mtdoc]

Yes but how useful is it for a non-EE?

Someone who know NOTHING about electronics. Can they get a basic foundation from which to explore deeper into specific topics?

Very useful as long as you have basic math (at least through algebra) skills and some understanding of basic physics (electromagnetism).

I am not an EE and find it very useful.

[rdl]

I'm pretty sure the 2nd Edition I bought was "used, like new". I paid close to $80 for it. The biggest problem I saw was that a lot of the content was out-dated by time I bought it, and large parts of what remained are not that useful for beginners. It's not that the book was bad, or totally useless, I just didn't see it as a good value. I'd like to have a copy of the new 3rd Edition because I know it will at least be up to date, but at the moment I think there are much more productive and informative ways to spend $100.

[Simon]

My copy turned up from cambridge universitry press yesterday. I've not read a word of it yet but looks more proffessional, more images, graphs so hopefully a worthwhile read if my HNC course does not turn up first.

[tggzzz]

I'm pretty sure the 2nd Edition I bought was "used, like new". The biggest problem I saw was that a lot of the content was out-dated by time I bought it, and large parts of what remained are not that useful for beginners.

Strange. I still refer to my first edition. The fundamentals are unchanged, and TAoE excelled at outlining a high-level view of a topic, plus giving sufficient detail to enable the reader to start profitably exploring and elaborating.

To use opamps as an example, the "good circuits" and "bad circuits" are still good and bad, even if the opamps have changed (and many haven't!).  If I want to choose an opamp or detailed information about how to use a specific opamp, there's plenty of that available on the web.

[JacquesBBB]

How useful is it for a non-EE?

Someone who knows NOTHING about electronics. Can they get a basic foundation from which to explore deeper into specific topics?

You can look back to my post #17 above.

If you know nothing about electronics,  the step will be quite steep.  The book content is dense, so you will benefit more if you are already somewhat familiar with electronics. On the other hand, it is a book that can be read. It is not  a dull academic book aimed for the selection of students on technical exercises. Mathematical expressions  are reduced to a minimum.  It is also  a book that aim to transmit a know-how.

TO get an idea of the book, the best thing is to download  the chapter 9 that is available for free at
Copyright content removed.
It has been largely written with respect to edition 2 and has a better introductory section. It a a long 100 page chapter on power supplies and power regulation that is somewhat self contained.

[JacquesBBB]

hopefully a worthwhile read if my HNC course does not turn up first.

What does "HNC course" means ?

[Simon]

hopefully a worthwhile read if my HNC course does not turn up first.

What does "HNC course" means ?

Higher National Certificate which in my case will be in electronics, it's level 5 out of 8 and after 8 you go for a degree at university

[smjcuk]

How useful is it for a non-EE?

Someone who knows NOTHING about electronics. Can they get a basic foundation from which to explore deeper into specific topics?

You can look back to my post #17 above.

If you know nothing about electronics,  the step will be quite steep.  The book content is dense, so you will benefit more if you are already somewhat familiar with electronics. On the other hand, it is a book that can be read. It is not  a dull academic book aimed for the selection of students on technical exercises. Mathematical expressions  are reduced to a minimum.  It is also  a book that aim to transmit a know-how.

TO get an idea of the book, the best thing is to download  the chapter 9 that is available for free at
Copyright content removed.

It has been largely written with respect to edition 2 and has a better introductory section. It a a long 100 page chapter on power supplies and power regulation that is somewhat self contained.

That's several orders of magnitude more useful than 2e based on that chapter sample. Despite prejudices against the book  and suspect longevity of information I will purchase it based on the utility of that chapter alone (as I'm currently designing a LDO reg based supply).

[JacquesBBB]

To the moderator :
You have suppressed the link  below,

TO get an idea of the book, the best thing is to download  the chapter 9 that is available for free at
Copyright content removed.
It has been largely written with respect to edition 2 and has a better introductory section. It a a long 100 page chapter on power supplies and power regulation that is somewhat self contained.

but in his message linked below, Winfield Hill explictely state that the link to chapter 9 that he provides
can be shared. This is all what I did. Please tell us if  Winfield Hill is wrong.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/hill$20art/sci.electronics.design/PSTqKWlJ_TM/N1NaFGaZCCgJ

and the direct link to chapter 9 of AOE as posted in Winfield Hill message

Here's a dropbox link.  You can share the link, and the file as well.

[Simon]

To the moderator :
You have suppressed the link  below,

TO get an idea of the book, the best thing is to download  the chapter 9 that is available for free at
Copyright content removed.
It has been largely written with respect to edition 2 and has a better introductory section. It a a long 100 page chapter on power supplies and power regulation that is somewhat self contained.

but in his message linked below, Winfield Hill explictely state that the link to chapter 9 that he provides
can be shared. This is all what I did. Please tell us if  Winfield Hill is wrong.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/hill$20art/sci.electronics.design/PSTqKWlJ_TM/N1NaFGaZCCgJ

and the direct link to chapter 9 of AOE as posted in Winfield Hill message

Here's a dropbox link.  You can share the link, and the file as well.

Thank you for clarifying. It is wise to post such credentials in the first place as otherwise the correct judgement is that it's breech of copyright.

[JacquesBBB]

Thank you for clarifying. It is wise to post such credentials in the first place as otherwise the correct judgement is that it's breech of copyright.

OK, but as I already mentioned it with all credential in my previous " Reply #21" message in this same thread, I did not think  I should have repeated it extensively. Now I will be more cautious, as I understand   that you cannot go back  always in the full thread.

[Simon]

yes please keep clarifications and material links together it makes life so much easier especially for people like me who struggle to remember stuff.

[tggzzz]

hopefully a worthwhile read if my HNC course does not turn up first.

What does "HNC course" means ?

Higher National Certificate. This is traditionally in the same area as an apprenticeship for a technician level job. Traditionally a university degree lead to an engineering level job.

For the past 25 years that distinction has been deliberately obfuscated mainly due to academic snobbery that a "Polytechnic" was inferior to a "University". That's a crying shame because the academic rigor required to become an engineer doesn't suit everybody - some are better suited to a more practical course. In reality in real life both are valuable and are necessary - and it is a shame that snobbery has disguised that.

[Simon]

hopefully a worthwhile read if my HNC course does not turn up first.

What does "HNC course" means ?

Higher National Certificate. This is traditionally in the same area as an apprenticeship for a technician level job. Traditionally a university degree lead to an engineering level job.

For the past 25 years that distinction has been deliberately obfuscated mainly due to academic snobbery that a "Polytechnic" was inferior to a "University". That's a crying shame because the academic rigor required to become an engineer doesn't suit everybody - some are better suited to a more practical course. In reality in real life both are valuable and are necessary - and it is a shame that snobbery has disguised that.

Well in my case it's a case of I'm pretty good at this shit so my employer wants me to be qualified. They are not able to teach me anything as I'm the one with the highest level of knowledge due to practical experience and my employer being mechanical orientated but this is the only option open as I am in work already and can study this from home. I tend to learn a lot from trying to solve a problem and getting over the new hurdles, often with the help of this forum.

I have had to deal with a subcontractor in the past who supposedly had employees with post graduate degrees but could not "reason" very well and there produced poor results. Studying and passing in exams or by assignments does not make you competent / clever you have to have a passion for it and interest, if you do it just to earn money you won't be very good generally.

[tggzzz]

Well in my case it's a case of I'm pretty good at this shit so my employer wants me to be qualified. They are not able to teach me anything as I'm the one with the highest level of knowledge due to practical experience and my employer being mechanical orientated but this is the only option open as I am in work already and can study this from home. I tend to learn a lot from trying to solve a problem and getting over the new hurdles, often with the help of this forum.

Sounds good: make the best of the opportunities available to you!

I have had to deal with a subcontractor in the past who supposedly had employees with post graduate degrees but could not "reason" very well and there produced poor results. Studying and passing in exams or by assignments does not make you competent / clever you have to have a passion for it and interest, if you do it just to earn money you won't be very good generally.

And I've seen many people that don't know the fundamental theory, and so make outrageous impossible claims. Competence and incompetence can be found everywhere.

There are strong and useful parallels between engineer:technician and doctor:nurse. Every new engineer/doctor with any sense knows that they rely heavily on the technicians/nurses on the team. And that partnership should continue as they gain experience.

Nowadays, quite reasonably, nurses are taking over more or the routine work previously done by doctors - and are probably doing a better job. But a nurse that beileves they know more than a doctor is a liability. And the same is true for a doctor that believes they are better than a nurse.

Each has their own skills and limitations - and the same is true for engineers and technicians. Vive la difference!

[Simon]

Well as I'm often found saying "it is better to know what you don't know " that way you know where you need to find out more. It's when you don't realize your missing something or don't care to test and question yourself that you make huge mistakes.

[JacquesBBB]

Well in my case it's a case of I'm pretty good at this shit so my employer wants me to be qualified.

So it means you have a good employer.  Taking this opportunity is wise, as you will not have
always the same employer and having the degree that fits your qualifications
puts you always in a better position.

The degree will also be a way to consolidate your  knowledge,  by making you look to things that otherwise your would have avoided. So good luck in your studies, and be ambitious ! 

[Simon]

It's not a degree and well lets say that my employer probably figured that I'm cheaper than a subcontractor and infinitely more available plus I've got them out of the goey stuff a couple of times so I think my direct boss wanted to do right by me.

[JacquesBBB]

It's not a degree

Ok, Certificate then, I  was using degree in the generic sense. What I meant is that once you get this
certificate, nothing prevents you to continue, and to run for an EE degree.

[Fred27]

It still kills me thinking about the fact that I sold my copy of the 1st edition for pennies at a garage sale 20 years ago.

Looking forward to my 3rd edition which is marked as "dispatched" by the Book Depository in the UK.

Same here. I did the first year of an electronics degree about 25 years ago (before switching to another course) and used to have the first edition as a textbook. Electronics is a rediscovered hobby now and my shiny new copy of the 3rd edition just arrived.

[rdl]

As I said:

The biggest problem I saw was that a lot of the content was out-dated by time I bought it, and large parts of what remained are not that useful for beginners. It's not that the book was bad, or totally useless, I just didn't see it as a good value.

There is indeed a lot of good information in there, but for someone just getting started in electronics, there are other books available with a higher ratio of useful information per dollar spent.

I've never seen a copy of the first edition of The Art of Electronics, maybe it was better in that respect.

I'm pretty sure the 2nd Edition I bought was "used, like new". The biggest problem I saw was that a lot of the content was out-dated by time I bought it, and large parts of what remained are not that useful for beginners.

Strange. I still refer to my first edition. The fundamentals are unchanged, and TAoE excelled at outlining a high-level view of a topic, plus giving sufficient detail to enable the reader to start profitably exploring and elaborating.

To use opamps as an example, the "good circuits" and "bad circuits" are still good and bad, even if the opamps have changed (and many haven't!).  If I want to choose an opamp or detailed information about how to use a specific opamp, there's plenty of that available on the web.

[Alex Eisenhut]

I like the Malvino book. That one I still use a lot.

[tggzzz]

As I said:

The biggest problem I saw was that a lot of the content was out-dated by time I bought it, and large parts of what remained are not that useful for beginners. It's not that the book was bad, or totally useless, I just didn't see it as a good value.

There is indeed a lot of good information in there, but for someone just getting started in electronics, there are other books available with a higher ratio of useful information per dollar spent.

That, of course, is a very personal judgement. Unfortunately the best way of reaching such a conclusion it is to sit down in a bookshop and speed-read the competing books. Amazon does have its downsides

I've never seen a copy of the first edition of The Art of Electronics, maybe it was better in that respect.

It was so like the first edition that I didn't bother to buy it.

There were no changes in the fundamentals, only a small updating of some of the devices. But as I noted elsewhere I don't think that is important, and there are better sources of that information.

[rdl]

I like the Malvino book. That one I still use a lot.

I guess this is it?

http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Principles-Albert-Malvino/dp/0028028333/

A used copy of the 6th edition is less than $15 shipped, so I will probably give it a look.

[Simon]

I've started reading mine, not overly impressed, why oh why are they talking dynamic resistance and the example of zeners before diodes are even being explained I know sometimes you have to skip ahead a bit but jesus, if I was a total beginner I'd be lost.

[smjcuk]

I've started reading mine, not overly impressed, why oh why are they talking dynamic resistance and the example of zeners before diodes are even being explained I know sometimes you have to skip ahead a bit but jesus, if I was a total beginner I'd be lost.

That's the sort of problem I had with it. The student guide that accompanies it is better for a tutorial style approach although that appears to assume that you have a pile of specific kit at your disposal (yes everyone has a 6.3v 60Hz transformer floating around rather than a signal generator). Plus it sort of tails off half way through as if they got bored of it (mind you a couple of university modules I did actually had the same problem so perhaps this is a problem with academia).

Someone needs to kick off a new book which a) is creative commons allowing contribution, b) allows feedback and patches before specific editions are committed, c) serves as both a tutorial and reference. There are attempts at those books but they're all chock full of errors.

There is a programming equivalent already: http://learncodethehardway.org/

My favourite electronics book (which is actually hilarious in places): http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0750694998/

And a better book to learn from, although a few small errors apparently: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1118217322/