Author Topic: The Art of Electronics  (Read 21305 times)

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Offline rdl

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2015, 04:04:54 pm »
I can't believe the ridiculously high price they expect for this book. I bought the second edition about 6 or 7 years ago. In no way was it worth the price I paid. This 3rd edition is 50% more expensive than what I paid for the last one. Can you guess if I will waste my money again?
 

Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2015, 05:19:09 pm »
@rdl
I wish also  it were less expensive, but  most  of the hardcover  university books are expensive, in contrast to some of the books more aimed towards a general audience like "Practical electronics for inventors" which you can get for 23.5$.

The second edition of AOE  is listed 130.7 $ at amazon.com  which is larger than
the third edition at 110 $ . The increase that you mention probably just reflects the general increase of living, or maybe you did not get the
original hardcover edition (I got an Indian edition at a very low price).

If you look to the list of University  recent hardcover books in electronics,  ranked by "new and popular" on amazon.com,  you find  in the first ranks.

200$         :Electric Circuits (10th Edition)Jan 19, 2014 by James W. Nilsson and Susan Riedel     
  89.41$    :Signal and Power Integrity - Simplified (2nd Edition)Jul 27, 2009 by Eric Bogatin
163.74$    : Electronics Fundamentals: Circuits, Devices & Applications (8th Edition)Jul 3, 2009 by Thomas L. Floyd and David M. Buchla
 185.74$    : Microelectronic Circuits (Oxford Series in Electrical & Comp. Eng.)Dec 15, 2009 by Adel S. Sedra and Kenneth C. Smith


You can wait for a cheaper softcover edition,  but if you  did not take any benefit from the second edition,  there
is probably very little chance you will   find the third edition useful.
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2015, 05:26:31 pm »
It still kills me thinking about the fact that I sold my copy of the 1st edition for pennies at a garage sale 20 years ago.  I'd bought it for an electronics course in 1984 during my brief foray into learning electronics while studying electrophysiology as an undergraduate biology major.

I have the Indian paperback 2nd edition and the PDF.

Looking forward to my 3rd edition which is marked as "dispatched" by the Book Depository in the UK.
 

Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2015, 06:44:31 am »
From Amazon.co.uk

Quote
We are pleased to report that the following item will dispatch sooner than expected:

 Horowitz, Paul "The Art of Electronics"
   Previous estimated arrival date: April 15 2015 - April 16 2015
   New estimated arrival date: April 07 2015
 

Offline notaroketscientist

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2015, 01:24:41 am »
The photo is all the endorsement anyone should need. I bought it.

Right action, but  for the wrong reason :) Avoid personality cults!

This entire forum is a "personality cult" just not your personality :-DD no worry, Bob's your uncle, it's still the duck's guts.

I bought the companion lab manual a few months back from the last edition and after poking around it I knew I had to have AOE.
At 63yrs I have been reading electronics materials for over 50yrs including the US Navy's schooling materials from the 60's and 70's.
No other tome in my limited experience comes close to the substance covered or the method of delivery. The ability to convey information without the need to
bury the reader in math and formulas sets this apart from all the rest.

Dave Jones delivery style is unique and very effective. His endorsement implies a similar effectiveness. The implication is accurate.  :-+
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 01:42:10 am by notaroketscientist »
There are sharper knives in the drawer. I am trying to get a finer edge on mine.
 

Offline bookaboo

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2015, 07:47:16 am »
I ordered from Waterstones in UK on Friday, got an "out of stock" email on Monday and a "despatched" email today.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2015, 08:08:41 am »
The photo is all the endorsement anyone should need. I bought it.

Right action, but  for the wrong reason :) Avoid personality cults!

This entire forum is a "personality cult" just not your personality :-DD no worry, Bob's your uncle, it's still the duck's guts.

I bought the companion lab manual a few months back from the last edition and after poking around it I knew I had to have AOE.
At 63yrs I have been reading electronics materials for over 50yrs including the US Navy's schooling materials from the 60's and 70's.
No other tome in my limited experience comes close to the substance covered or the method of delivery. The ability to convey information without the need to
bury the reader in math and formulas sets this apart from all the rest.

I've been recommending the book to others since the mid 80s, so clearly I agree  :D

Quote
Dave Jones delivery style is unique and very effective. His endorsement implies a similar effectiveness. The implication is accurate.  :-+

Fortunately his style lacks all pomposity, to the point of being humourous. If it wasn't it would be intolerable.

But I still hate "personality cults", or anything else which has the appearance of "proof by reference to personal authority"!
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline smjcuk

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2015, 08:34:43 am »
Couldn't agree more. If you think these EE personality cults are bad, you want to look at the open source software culture.

One should always trust multiple sources and ignore Amazon reviews (I'm sure that reviewer eggboy65503 hasn't read 990 books in his time). No book is worthy of worship independently.

Now for a contrarian POV. I worked in the defense electronics industry (the big R) for a total of six months back in 1997 before I got lured into writing software (less responsibility for killing people). Now there were hundreds of EEs there and not once was I recommended TAOE nor saw a copy in the labs. Knowledge flowed freely not through books and references but on paper and time spent in the cafe. The only things I was recommended was Calculus For The Practical Man (1946!) and get a TI85 as it does determinants on arbitrary matrix sizes unlike shoddy Casio tech, it was faster than a pencil and you could write games on it.

I have a copy of TAOE 2nd edition on my shelf which is barely used. 300 pages are next to useless and the rest unnecessarily verbose as a reference and tutorial.

I'll buy the 3rd edition out of interest as those 300 pages should then be up to date for about 5 years. However I'll wait for the 'international edition' to appear like I did last time and get my good Indian friend to post me a copy from there. (Yes they price fix books and provide 'affordable' editions for other countries). The paperback is easier to handle as well :)

I'll probably be flamed off the forum now much as if I'd insulted a religious text.
 

Offline notaroketscientist

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2015, 09:22:34 am »
 
Couldn't agree more. If you think these EE personality cults are bad, you want to look at the open source software culture.

One should always trust multiple sources and ignore Amazon reviews (I'm sure that reviewer eggboy65503 hasn't read 990 books in his time). No book is worthy of worship independently.

Now for a contrarian POV. I worked in the defense electronics industry (the big R) for a total of six months back in 1997 before I got lured into writing software (less responsibility for killing people). Now there were hundreds of EEs there and not once was I recommended TAOE nor saw a copy in the labs. Knowledge flowed freely not through books and references but on paper and time spent in the cafe. The only things I was recommended was Calculus For The Practical Man (1946!) and get a TI85 as it does determinants on arbitrary matrix sizes unlike shoddy Casio tech, it was faster than a pencil and you could write games on it.

I have a copy of TAOE 2nd edition on my shelf which is barely used. 300 pages are next to useless and the rest unnecessarily verbose as a reference and tutorial.

I'll buy the 3rd edition out of interest as those 300 pages should then be up to date for about 5 years. However I'll wait for the 'international edition' to appear like I did last time and get my good Indian friend to post me a copy from there. (Yes they price fix books and provide 'affordable' editions for other countries). The paperback is easier to handle as well :)

I'll probably be flamed off the forum now much as if I'd insulted a religious




No worry mate.....this is the beginners board. Rocket scientists such as yourselves are the ones we beginners look to for guidance and endorsements, recommendations, directions on how to become what we believe you are. Dave posted in this thread for the likes of blokes like me not so well informed untrained beginners with a thirst and passion to grasp the unfathomable depths of a discipline we dream about. Your finding it next to useless and unnecessarily verbose is likely as strong an endorsement as Dave's to someone like me who simply lacks your experience and wisdom. :-+ :-+ :-+ :phew:

Modified by Seppy due to overly excited text formatting  ;)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 12:21:29 pm by notaroketscientist »
There are sharper knives in the drawer. I am trying to get a finer edge on mine.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2015, 11:40:03 am »
I would tend to agree slightly. I found the second edition not as great as everyone said it was, maybe i know more than I know (better than not knowing what I don't know). To be honest with the availability of the internet my copy has just sat on the shelf. But i have ordered the 3rd edition just to see if i can prove me wrong. I find american writers annoying anyway, some forget they are writing information books and seem to think that cracking stupid jokes every page was the primary reason for the book.
 

Offline drakke

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2015, 03:07:08 am »
I have a copy of TAOE 2nd edition on my shelf which is barely used. 300 pages are next to useless and the rest unnecessarily verbose as a reference and tutorial.

How useful is it for a non-EE?

Someone who knows NOTHING about electronics. Can they get a basic foundation from which to explore deeper into specific topics?

« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 03:15:19 am by drakke »
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2015, 03:11:25 am »
Yes but how useful is it for a non-EE?

Someone who know NOTHING about electronics. Can they get a basic foundation from which to explore deeper into specific topics?

Very useful as long as you have basic math (at least through algebra) skills and some understanding of basic physics (electromagnetism).

I am not an EE and find it very useful.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2015, 03:57:52 am »
I'm pretty sure the 2nd Edition I bought was "used, like new". I paid close to $80 for it. The biggest problem I saw was that a lot of the content was out-dated by time I bought it, and large parts of what remained are not that useful for beginners. It's not that the book was bad, or totally useless, I just didn't see it as a good value. I'd like to have a copy of the new 3rd Edition because I know it will at least be up to date, but at the moment I think there are much more productive and informative ways to spend $100.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2015, 08:02:14 am »
My copy turned up from cambridge universitry press yesterday. I've not read a word of it yet but looks more proffessional, more images, graphs so hopefully a worthwhile read if my HNC course does not turn up first.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2015, 08:32:50 am »
I'm pretty sure the 2nd Edition I bought was "used, like new". The biggest problem I saw was that a lot of the content was out-dated by time I bought it, and large parts of what remained are not that useful for beginners.

Strange. I still refer to my first edition. The fundamentals are unchanged, and TAoE excelled at outlining a high-level view of a topic, plus giving sufficient detail to enable the reader to start profitably exploring and elaborating.

To use opamps as an example, the "good circuits" and "bad circuits" are still good and bad, even if the opamps have changed (and many haven't!).  If I want to choose an opamp or detailed information about how to use a specific opamp, there's plenty of that available on the web.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2015, 09:48:10 am »

How useful is it for a non-EE?

Someone who knows NOTHING about electronics. Can they get a basic foundation from which to explore deeper into specific topics?

You can look back to my post #17 above.

If you know nothing about electronics,  the step will be quite steep.  The book content is dense, so you will benefit more if you are already somewhat familiar with electronics. On the other hand, it is a book that can be read. It is not  a dull academic book aimed for the selection of students on technical exercises. Mathematical expressions  are reduced to a minimum.  It is also  a book that aim to transmit a know-how.

TO get an idea of the book, the best thing is to download  the chapter 9 that is available for free at
Copyright content removed.
It has been largely written with respect to edition 2 and has a better introductory section. It a a long 100 page chapter on power supplies and power regulation that is somewhat self contained.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 10:38:26 am by Seppy »
 

Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2015, 09:55:05 am »
hopefully a worthwhile read if my HNC course does not turn up first.

What does "HNC course" means ?
 

Offline Simon

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2015, 10:00:17 am »
hopefully a worthwhile read if my HNC course does not turn up first.

What does "HNC course" means ?

Higher National Certificate which in my case will be in electronics, it's level 5 out of 8 and after 8 you go for a degree at university
 

Offline smjcuk

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2015, 10:08:49 am »

How useful is it for a non-EE?

Someone who knows NOTHING about electronics. Can they get a basic foundation from which to explore deeper into specific topics?

You can look back to my post #17 above.

If you know nothing about electronics,  the step will be quite steep.  The book content is dense, so you will benefit more if you are already somewhat familiar with electronics. On the other hand, it is a book that can be read. It is not  a dull academic book aimed for the selection of students on technical exercises. Mathematical expressions  are reduced to a minimum.  It is also  a book that aim to transmit a know-how.

TO get an idea of the book, the best thing is to download  the chapter 9 that is available for free at
Copyright content removed.

It has been largely written with respect to edition 2 and has a better introductory section. It a a long 100 page chapter on power supplies and power regulation that is somewhat self contained.

That's several orders of magnitude more useful than 2e based on that chapter sample. Despite prejudices against the book  and suspect longevity of information I will purchase it based on the utility of that chapter alone (as I'm currently designing a LDO reg based supply).
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 10:37:14 am by Seppy »
 

Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2015, 11:19:35 am »
To the moderator :
You have suppressed the link  below,


TO get an idea of the book, the best thing is to download  the chapter 9 that is available for free at
Copyright content removed.
It has been largely written with respect to edition 2 and has a better introductory section. It a a long 100 page chapter on power supplies and power regulation that is somewhat self contained.

but in his message linked below, Winfield Hill explictely state that the link to chapter 9 that he provides
can be shared. This is all what I did. Please tell us if  Winfield Hill is wrong.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/hill$20art/sci.electronics.design/PSTqKWlJ_TM/N1NaFGaZCCgJ

and the direct link to chapter 9 of AOE as posted in Winfield Hill message
Quote from: Winfield Hill
Here's a dropbox link.  You can share the link, and the file as well.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2015, 11:27:14 am »
To the moderator :
You have suppressed the link  below,


TO get an idea of the book, the best thing is to download  the chapter 9 that is available for free at
Copyright content removed.
It has been largely written with respect to edition 2 and has a better introductory section. It a a long 100 page chapter on power supplies and power regulation that is somewhat self contained.

but in his message linked below, Winfield Hill explictely state that the link to chapter 9 that he provides
can be shared. This is all what I did. Please tell us if  Winfield Hill is wrong.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.electronics.design/hill$20art/sci.electronics.design/PSTqKWlJ_TM/N1NaFGaZCCgJ

and the direct link to chapter 9 of AOE as posted in Winfield Hill message
Quote from: Winfield Hill
Here's a dropbox link.  You can share the link, and the file as well.

Thank you for clarifying. It is wise to post such credentials in the first place as otherwise the correct judgement is that it's breech of copyright.
 

Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2015, 11:38:00 am »
Thank you for clarifying. It is wise to post such credentials in the first place as otherwise the correct judgement is that it's breech of copyright.

OK, but as I already mentioned it with all credential in my previous " Reply #21" message in this same thread, I did not think  I should have repeated it extensively. Now I will be more cautious, as I understand   that you cannot go back  always in the full thread.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2015, 11:39:49 am »
yes please keep clarifications and material links together it makes life so much easier especially for people like me who struggle to remember stuff.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2015, 11:48:26 am »
hopefully a worthwhile read if my HNC course does not turn up first.

What does "HNC course" means ?

Higher National Certificate. This is traditionally in the same area as an apprenticeship for a technician level job. Traditionally a university degree lead to an engineering level job.

For the past 25 years that distinction has been deliberately obfuscated mainly due to academic snobbery that a "Polytechnic" was inferior to a "University". That's a crying shame because the academic rigor required to become an engineer doesn't suit everybody - some are better suited to a more practical course. In reality in real life both are valuable and are necessary - and it is a shame that snobbery has disguised that.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Simon

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Re: The Art of Electronics
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2015, 11:53:50 am »
hopefully a worthwhile read if my HNC course does not turn up first.

What does "HNC course" means ?

Higher National Certificate. This is traditionally in the same area as an apprenticeship for a technician level job. Traditionally a university degree lead to an engineering level job.

For the past 25 years that distinction has been deliberately obfuscated mainly due to academic snobbery that a "Polytechnic" was inferior to a "University". That's a crying shame because the academic rigor required to become an engineer doesn't suit everybody - some are better suited to a more practical course. In reality in real life both are valuable and are necessary - and it is a shame that snobbery has disguised that.

Well in my case it's a case of I'm pretty good at this shit so my employer wants me to be qualified. They are not able to teach me anything as I'm the one with the highest level of knowledge due to practical experience and my employer being mechanical orientated but this is the only option open as I am in work already and can study this from home. I tend to learn a lot from trying to solve a problem and getting over the new hurdles, often with the help of this forum.

I have had to deal with a subcontractor in the past who supposedly had employees with post graduate degrees but could not "reason" very well and there produced poor results. Studying and passing in exams or by assignments does not make you competent / clever you have to have a passion for it and interest, if you do it just to earn money you won't be very good generally.
 


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