Weller and Soldering Stations Questions

[Brogueira]

Hello Guys,

This is my first post, I have done a lot of research on soldering irons and stations, and have come to the final choice for a budget, Hakko FX888D and Weller WES51.
Personally I liked Weller WES51 the most, but Its very hard to get one in Portugal. I found a WECP-20 in second hand and would like to know your opinions about it, how does it relate to the WES51 and if possible an answer to these questions:

1 - Is WES51 an evolution of WECP-20, or is WECP-20 an older superior model?
2 - Does the Soldering Iron PES51 fit the WECP-20?
3 - Is LR-21 the original Soldering Iron of WECP-20 station?
4 - Are the tips from PES51 Soldering Iron adequate for WECP-20 stations's Soldering Iron?

These questions are important since I can only order or find some of these parts.

Thank you.

[Electro Fan]

Hi, Welcome to EEVblog.  I can’t answer all your questions and I don’t know what’s available in Portugal but here is some info.

I have had a Weller WESD51 for several years and always thought it was a good iron.  More recently I started using a Hakko FX888D.  I now use the 888 almost all the time.  The biggest difference is that the Hakko is 70 Watts and the Weller is 50 Watts.  I wouldn’t have guessed that the 20 Watt difference would make such a difference but the Hakko heats up so much faster that it makes soldering easier, more enjoyable, and provides a better overall experience and better results.

Having said that, there are other threads here that talk about a new Weller model 1010 that was just recently introduced and that is 70 Watts.  I think it might be available in Europe.  If the 1010 is available in your area it’s worth a look; if not go for the Hakko 888.

[FrankE]

Weller have recently added a new range, the WT which is single function stations. I'm not sure if they're  adding a multifunction station to supercede the WR3 or WXR3. A new range may signal they are retiring an older range (WD? WR? WE?) .

More current ranges (of any brand) should have heating nearer the tip for better thermal transfer and recovery but whether any rang does or not, I don't know.
 
I'm on WX and they have light rings to indicate temp has been reached, inclinometers (or something) to put the pencils in standby when they are in the stands.

I have no idea where they are going with all their ranges and they are not the best at communicating the features of each rang, where the ranges stand in their scheme of things, the interoperability of tips and pencils. I get the impression each

They don't go down in price so if buying new and funds allow, one may as well save a while longer and get a more current range for good performance, long term support and availability of spares.

That you can't find parts before you've bought it should ring alarm bells.

[Brogueira]

Thank you for your responses, im going to go with the Hakko FX888D. I can easily find parts for it.

I'm also looking for a Hot Air station, but again, its hard to find. Are there any good, budget friendly brands in EU such as Quick?

I know the Hakko Air Stations are really good but they are very expensive...

[agehall]

I bought my Quick hot air station from some supplier in Poland. Decently priced IIRC and I love it. Just search around a bit and I'm sure you'll find references to suitable suppliers in Europe.

[Audioguru]

My Weller WTCP soldering iron is about 50 years old and still works fine. Its tip sets and controls its temperature so it does not have a useless temperature adjust knob that is always set wrong.
It is about 60W and its tip lasts for many years of heating all day long.

[Brogueira]

I bought my Quick hot air station from some supplier in Poland. Decently priced IIRC and I love it. Just search around a bit and I'm sure you'll find references to suitable suppliers in Europe.

Which model do you have?

[agehall]

I have the 861DW.

[IdahoMan]

My Weller WTCP soldering iron is about 50 years old and still works fine. Its tip sets and controls its temperature so it does not have a useless temperature adjust knob that is always set wrong.
It is about 60W and its tip lasts for many years of heating all day long.

How does the the tip set and control the temperature?

Thanks.

[KILLSWITCH]

I've owned a Weller WES51 for 12+ years and have used Hakko stations at work for years.

I haven't noticed any performance differences between the two. Both heat up quick and perform like I expect.
What I notice most is how much more I prefer the feel of the Weller's smaller pencil iron.
The Weller has never given me a single problem.

Honestly both work great and either way you cant go wrong, but I will say I prefer my Weller.

[MosherIV]

How does the the tip set and control the temperature? 

The old Weller TCP irons controlled temperature with ferro magnetism.
When the tip temperature is below the magnetic curie point, the tip stays magnetised.
The magnetism would pull a switch in the shaft closed, turning on the heat.
When the tip goes over the temperature threshold for the magnetic curie point, the magnetism is lost, opening the switch and hence stops heating.
The system self regulates the tip temperature.

You can change the tip temperature by changing the tip to one with a different magnetic curie point.
I know 2 temps are available 6 and 7 tips. I beleive that refers to the temp in °F
Ie in the 600°F range and in the 700°F range.
There may be a 3rd temp available but I have never seen one.

[IdahoMan]

How does the the tip set and control the temperature? 

The old Weller TCP irons controlled temperature with ferro magnetism.
When the tip temperature is below the magnetic curie point, the tip stays magnetised.
The magnetism would pull a switch in the shaft closed, turning on the heat.
When the tip goes over the temperature threshold for the magnetic curie point, the magnetism is lost, opening the switch and hence stops heating.
The system self regulates the tip temperature.

You can change the tip temperature by changing the tip to one with a different magnetic curie point.
I know 2 temps are available 6 and 7 tips. I beleive that refers to the temp in °F
Ie in the 600°F range and in the 700°F range.
There may be a 3rd temp available but I have never seen one.

Thank you for teh explaination.

Considering a Soldering Station soon and I don't know how useful an adjutable temp control will really be. I know I definitely don't want one of those digital ones.

[flynwill]

The Weller TCP irons are pretty much bullet proof.  Mine's 45 years old and has yet to fail me. 

I know 2 temps are available 6 and 7 tips. I beleive that refers to the temp in °F Ie in the 600°F range and in the 700°F range.

#8 for 800F tips exist also.

[IdahoMan]

I found a Weller TC202 at a yard sale for $10.

Any good source for authentic/non-foreign tips or accessories?

[KL27x]

AFAIK, Weller doesn't suffer from knockoffs. The Chinese cloners don't are about Weller. They settled their hooks on Hakko.   

The rumor is that Weller tips used to last forever and now they don't. Whether it's because "made in Mexico" and "genuine Weller" are now synonymous, or whether they changed something intentionally, who knows? But I have read that this change coincided with moving their tip manufacturing south of the equator. I think they might still make some of their tips in Europe, but how you can buy one or the other, who knows. They are all authentic.

Firsthand, I have experience only with the new Wx stations. The station is not reliable, longterm. 25% units dead thru 6 years. And the expensive $30.00 to $45.00 micropencil tips wear out way too fast.

[MosherIV]

The rumor is that Weller tips used to last forever and now they don't.

They definitly have never lasted forever. In my first industrial placement job, I did so many solder joints and repairs (desoldering) that I managed to wear out a tip. Once you wear throught the plating, the flux slowly eats through the copper core. I was finding it harder and harder to solder, my mentor took one look and told me that the tip was gone and needed replacing. Once replaced, back to happy soldering. This was way back in 1990, so it is definitley possible to wear them out and this happened long before production shifted to Mexico.

Are the tips made in Mexico inferior ? Do not know. Have not bought a new tip in ages.
My Weller TCPZ iron is not working, replaced with Metcal now.

Not sure where you are based, if USA try reputable dealer like Element14 or RS

[Mr. Scram]

My Weller WTCP soldering iron is about 50 years old and still works fine. Its tip sets and controls its temperature so it does not have a useless temperature adjust knob that is always set wrong.
It is about 60W and its tip lasts for many years of heating all day long.

Dave doesn't recommend getting one of these. Get one with an electronically settable temperature.

[MosherIV]

Dave doesn't recommend getting one of these. Get one with an electronically settable temperature.

This is down to personel preference. Some people like the variable temp control and some do not.

I prefer Metcal so tecnically I do not prefer adjustable temperature. I can see that sometimes being able to set the temperature has its uses but not to overcome thermal mass.

Personalky, I think people should try both out and see which they prefer.

[Electro Detective]

My Weller WTCP soldering iron is about 50 years old and still works fine. Its tip sets and controls its temperature so it does not have a useless temperature adjust knob that is always set wrong.
It is about 60W and its tip lasts for many years of heating all day long.

Oh yeah!    


My old school Weller WTCP Series TC20? ceased being 'reliable' some years back (it either worked great or so-so intermittently) so I shelved it and used some others till I could find some brain time to sort it out

One day as I was considering to sell it off as parts and get some storage space back, I decided to pull the sucker apart and upon careful inspection found the two 'break thin' bare wires that go to the 240/24 volt transformer primary were loosely wrapped around the power switch contacts     I purchased the unit brand new in the box from the local distributor btw 

After a couple of tries (and 'heat/brittle breaks' and other adventures) I successfully soldered them on to some short stranded 'extension' wire leads and then used crimps to attach to the switch,
and noted on testing it was working better than it ever did, but... intermittently 


Almost gave up on it till I stumbled on the solder iron lead connector to the base station was mating loosely even though it had a bayonet style of 3 pin connector.


Fixed that issue and now the Weller is a 'go to' workhorse again, works like a champ 

I wonder how many other units with this set of problems are sitting in landfills ?   



BTW guys, not only do I have the general purpose PTA '7' 700F tips, but also '8' 800F which I may have bought for lead free crap solder use

and one engraved label '9' 900F (welding rod, LOL) which I must have bought for the occassional tight space chassis bond cooking scenario

 
Anyway, this Weller isn't going anywhere now and doesn't need a dial to play with temperature,
the 7 tips in conical and chisel point just about cover all bases with any size lead/flux solder,

and the 8 and 9 are there if I need to get medieval     

[Mr. Scram]

Dave doesn't recommend getting one of these. Get one with an electronically settable temperature.

This is down to personel preference. Some people like the variable temp control and some do not.

I prefer Metcal so tecnically I do not prefer adjustable temperature. I can see that sometimes being able to set the temperature has its uses but not to overcome thermal mass.

Personalky, I think people should try both out and see which they prefer.

There doesn't seem to be a situation where having less control is to be preferred, especially since you aren't obligated to change the temperature on a variable station. The latter can do both, suiting both preferences.

[nanofrog]

Thank you for your responses, im going to go with the Hakko FX888D. I can easily find parts for it.

I'm also looking for a Hot Air station, but again, its hard to find. Are there any good, budget friendly brands in EU such as Quick?

I know the Hakko Air Stations are really good but they are very expensive...

For decent pricing on Hakko, you might want to check out Batterfly (located in Italy).

In the case of hot air, you'd do just fine with a Quick 861DW. Seems they offer bent nozzles as well ($10 per), which would be more comfortable to work with IME (even more so if you're working under a microscope). Best to order at the same time to save on shipping.

How does the the tip set and control the temperature?

If you want to get into the details, check out wiki's Curie Temperature page.

AFAIK, Weller doesn't suffer from knockoffs. The Chinese cloners don't are about Weller. They settled their hooks on Hakko.   

The rumor is that Weller tips used to last forever and now they don't. Whether it's because "made in Mexico" and "genuine Weller" are now synonymous, or whether they changed something intentionally, who knows? But I have read that this change coincided with moving their tip manufacturing south of the equator. I think they might still make some of their tips in Europe, but how you can buy one or the other, who knows. They are all authentic.

Firsthand, I have experience only with the new Wx stations. The station is not reliable, longterm. 25% units dead thru 6 years. And the expensive $30.00 to $45.00 micropencil tips wear out way too fast.

They've copied/borrowed heavily from Weller's Silver Line products (WSP80/WP80 iron tech & WD unit UI), but it's not made to look like Weller's products. Rather decent actually from what I've read. FWIW, the LTL (long 2mm chisel) tips I've tried are holding up well thus far.

In regard to Weller's tips, it's been the stuff made in Mexico and Bosnia that's had notable QC issues IME (back of envelope calculations came to ~ 30% defect/early failure rate IME). The tips I have that came from Germany, Japan, or the US have been fine (LT series, not the RT series you're using). They do cost more though; about 4x - 5x in fact (i.e. LTCC & LTDD).

I also use a micropencil (WMP) that uses NT series tips that have been fine (COO = Japan). Bit pricey, but could be worse. Not used anywhere near as frequently as my WSP80 though, even when working under a microscope.

[IdahoMan]

Just FYI, on the tips, they are PT series. The tip on my iron says "PTA" but no number.

[Electro Detective]

Just FYI, on the tips, they are PT series. The tip on my iron says "PTA" but no number.

The PTA/PTAA ones I have, all have the number punched in/engraved into the metal at the opposite end of the tip, which makes contact with the wand

Some recent ones (Weller branded in sealed packages) also have the number/s

Yours may be knockoffs, most likely the standard 700 Fahrenheit

if they don't perform try and source some originals,
the older the better IMHO, even if slightly used 

[nanofrog]

Techspray/Plato make equivalent tips if you're interested (C Series are PT equivalents). They only sell them in 10 packs, but some vendors will split them up and sell singles.