what equipment should we buy for our new electronics club?

[patchie]

Hi,

We are going to start a electronics club here in Norway.
We need some suggestions on what equipment we should buy.


Oscilloscope (300 usd is the limit):
We where looking into buying this oscilloscope: Rigol DS1052E and upgrade it as Dave explained in a video: https://www.ebay.com/itm//192533179963


Then someone told me that i could buy a Rigol DS1054Z and upgrade it to 100mhz as well. Is it worth to go over budget? https://www.ebay.com/itm//361761695566



Lab Powersupply (90 usd is the limit):
FCH QW-MS305D - Dave recommended this powersupply in one of his youtube uploads: http://amzn.to/2gN3AuD
But then i found this video:

Code: [Select]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V6GIyLDK6k

Any other recommendations?


Thanks in advance.

[Old Printer]

Without a doubt the 1054 is twice the machine the 1052 is/was. At the moment Rigol is offering the decode and trigger package free and for the price difference the 1054 is the obvious choice. Put off another purchase if you need to, but a scope is too important to save $50 bucks on.

[patchie]

"Old Printer": Where did you see the offer with decode and trigger package for free? And what exactly is those packages? Software / hardware?


Thanks in advance.


Quote from: Old Printer on Today at 14:34:23

Without a doubt the 1054 is twice the machine the 1052 is/was. At the moment Rigol is offering the decode and trigger package free and for the price difference the 1054 is the obvious choice. Put off another purchase if you need to, but a scope is too important to save $50 bucks on.

[rstofer]

As to the Rigol DS1054Z, here is the US supplier - note the 'Free Software Bundle'

https://www.tequipment.net/oscilloscopes/digital-oscilloscopes/#/oscilloscopes/digital-oscilloscopes/brands_rigol/

Whether you get the options or not, the free version won't include the 100 MHz bandwidth unlocking.  Search around for 'riglol' (yes, I know it is misspelled) and you will find info on how to unlock all of the options.  I would imagine that by this point everybody who ever bought a DS1054Z has unlocked them.

For the signal generator, I like the Siglent SDG 2082X.  Be aware that it only goes to 25 MHz for square waves, the 80 MHz spec is for sine wave only.  You may want to back down from the 80 MHz, it might be costly overkill.

I also have the Rigol DP832 power supply and it works really well.

[Old Printer]

rstofer took care of most of your question, but as to what the decode options do, they allow you to look at digital signals like IC2, SPI and others. It does not turn into a logic analyzer, but depending on your needs it can be very useful. An other part of the options bundle is advanced trigger functions. In general, many of the digital tools like signal generators and power supply's can be hacked and you should investigate this before paying for upgrades and options.

[ammjy]

Function generator, DC adjust dc power supply

[bd139]

+ fire extinguisher

[ammjy]

1. Printer - because, Paper is better then look datasheet or info thorugh monitor.

2. Oscilloscope - i wish you choice good oscilloscope. don't buy USB portable type. not good if that is not Pico brends.

3. Function generator - in Electornics, function generator is important for signal source.

4. Multimeter (if you can, LCR meter also) ( two is recommended. becasue, sometiems just one multimeter is not enough. )

5. DC adjust power supply ( two is recommended. becasue, sometiems just one power supply is not enough. )

6. ground sheet on the desk.

7. soldering iron which can adjust temperature. ( adjust temperature is very important )

8. Magnifying Glass + light source (like stand light)

9. Don't buy components in Aliexpress if you are not sure. Aliexpress is one of good market. but most components like op amps, other IC's are fake or used. not new. i bought before Analog device OP series amps. and all was fake.

[Doctorandus_P]

Lately the Siglent oscilloscopes seem to have better specifications for the money than the Rigol Scopes.

The equipment you need depends a lot on the stuff you want to do.

---------------------------
Power supply:
A lot of electronics stuff is much lower power than it used to be and a "standard" 30V 3A lab power supply is overkill for a lot of projects.
Power supplies are also fun to build from a kit or from scratch, and a lot of very usable stuff can be bought for very little money nowaday's.
For a "higher power" power supply the DPS5005 is very popular.
For a lower power lineair supply, this is a decent kit:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-Regulated-Power-Supply-DIY-Kit-Continuously-Adjustable-Short-Circuit-Current-Limiting-Protection-DIY-Kit-0/32818704937.html
This kit needs an AC input to generate a negative input for the opamp's, but transformers can be found in lots of old / obsolete equipment.
I also quite like this idea of buying an (broken) audio power amplifier for the housing, transformer, and miscellanious parts to build a power supply:
https://hackaday.com/2018/06/18/hybrid-lab-power-supply-from-broken-audio-amp/

Most important for a power supply is however that it has an adjustable voltage and current limit.
The current limit is often the difference between a simple fix, or letting the smoke out of your experimental circuit.

If you need a function generator the JDS6600 is a quite nice box. The 15MHz version is plenty for most projects andcosts around EUR60.

If you are into microcontrollers then a logic analyser is often a much more usefull tool than an oscilloscope. For an Oscilloscope you do not want an USB version, but a separate box with LCD & lots of buttons for easy access to all functions, but for a Logic Analyser you want a big (PC) monitor with lots of pixels and it is quite comfortable to use with mouse  keyboard.
Nowaday's very decent logic analyser costs < EUR5. Search vor "14m 8ch" on Ebay / Ali / Banggood / China / etc. These boxes have the Cypress  CY7C68013 and almost any development board with this chip can be used with Sigrok / Pulseview.
https://sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware#Logic_analyzers
Don't be fooled by the low price, these boxes are very capable for sniffing UART, I2C, SPI and lots of other serial protocols. The magic is in the Pulseview software and it supports decoding for lots of serial protocols.

An if you get into the limits of the EUR 5 L.A. hardware you can "upgrade" to more capable boxes.

[schmitt trigger]

In addition to what has been mentioned above, there are specialized instruments depending on what you are planning to do.

For example,  if you are interested in audio amplifiers, in addition to a low distortion signal generator, get yourself some high-power non-inductive load resistors.

If you are interested in building power supplies, an electronic load plus some power resistors are required. A Variac, too.
A thermocouple thermometer would also be very helpful in both instances above.

Would like to program code? Get yourself a microcontroller programmer.

You get the idea.......................

[Old Printer]

As Schmidtt said, have a meeting and identify areas of interest. Electronics is a broad topic and there will certainly be some focus. If no one knows anything, unlikely, even that is a focus on Ohm's Law 101

[innkeeper]

We are going to start a electronics club here in Norway.
We need some suggestions on what equipment we should buy.

Hi patchie, welcome to the Forum!

Tell us a bit about the club, what kind of projects you see your club doing in the short term.

It does sound like you have a limited budget, but, that should not be a problem.
There are plenty of good recommendations already, but, over time, you can grow your equipment base.

it will help us help you save money if we know more about what you want to do initially.
over time, you can then grow the depth of the equipment as projects dictate, or, as funds allow.

[rstofer]

I pitch the Analog Discovery 2 quite often.  But it's an expensive gadget, all in, and people just don't want to give it a try.

Here's the thing:  It's a dual channel scope, dual channel arbitrary waveform generator (fancy signal generator), dual adjustable power supplies (but limited in voltage and current), and a whole lot more.  It literally replaces a rack full of test equipment and is ideal for prototyping and learning.  Just look at the list of things it will do:

https://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-100msps-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/

No, I'm not going to scrap my real signal generators, power supplies or scopes but I'm really glad I have the AD 2.  Among other things, the traces are easy to see on a 27" computer screen.

Dave did a video on the original Analog Discovery, I don't know if he has done one on the AD 2.  There are several on YouTube.

Personally, I would go for the Pro Bundle:
https://store.digilentinc.com/all-products/scopes-instruments/

Or one of the other assortments that includes parts like the Maker Bundle (add a pair of scope probes).

You can do a heck of a lot of electronics with the AD2.

One of my major interests with electronics is analog computing and, for that, I need X-Y plots.  The Tek 485 will do them but I don't wind up with a hard copy.  The DS1054Z will do them but on a small portion of the screen.  Through some convoluted process I can get a hard copy.  The AD2 does them on my PC's 27" monitor.  Alt-PrtScrn gets them into Paint and that gets them saved as a file. See attached...  BTW, that first example is two 1kHz sine waves 90 degrees out of phase.  One signal goes to X (Ch 1) and the other goes to Y (Ch 2).  Change one of the frequencies to some multiple of 1 kHz plus a little bit (like 9.001 kHz) and you get a really neat Lissajous pattern that rolls.  A single shot looks like the attached.  Note that I have both Y versus time and X versus Y.

If you are not using the BNC adapter, both scope channels are fully differential.  This can come in very handy when you want to measure the voltage ACROSS a component that doesn't have one end connected to ground.  Base resistors come to mind.  As does Vce...  Differential probes for conventional scopes are kind of expensive. 

[jancumps]

...
For example,  if you are interested in audio amplifiers,  [...] get yourself some high-power non-inductive load resistors.

Why focus on the non-inductance when the only thing the power amplifiers will ever see is an inductive load?

[Old Printer]

I will ditto what ristofer said. The AD1 & AD2 give the beginner a very wide range of test gear, but with limited ranges. I bought the AD2 at full price and have really learned a lot with it. By watching ebay I recently picked up an AD1 for $55 shipped. That is unusually low, but no one was looking when this one closed. The usual price is more like $150 and up, at that rate I would probably go for a new AD2. Watch local classified Craigslist ads as graduated students that bought the AD1 for the old $99 price may be dumping them.

[ebastler]

As to the Rigol DS1054Z, here is the US supplier - note the 'Free Software Bundle'

The same "all options included" deal is available in Europe, e.g. here:
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html.
Might the better deal after you consider shipping and import duties & tax, and of course you get the European consumer warranty.

Those decoders, triggers, memory upgrades... are software-only options. If you have no reservations against upgrading the bandwidth to 100MHz via RIGLOL, then you could add those options as well -- e.g. if you find a lower cost deal on the scope which does not have the options bundled. On the other hand, you can combine the "legal" options with the "hacked" 100MHz upgrade without a problem.

[malagas_on_fire]

Also get a good set of Hand Tools:

- snips
- pliers
- wire striper ( Example : http://www.irwin.com/tools/pliers-adjustable-wrenches/6-1000v-wire-stripper)
- tweezers


PS.: You can use a nail cutter to cut and strip small wires on the go...

[patchie]

Lately the Siglent oscilloscopes seem to have better specifications for the money than the Rigol Scopes.

I have been looking at Rigol DS1052E and then "hack" it to become DS1102E(100MHz).
Some guy online told me that i should for sure go for DS1054Z, since its much better, and hack it to become a DS1104Z.(this will break my budget by 130 usd, but it might be worth it?)
So, and now you tell me that i might get more from siglent for the money? Do you have any examples with price estimates? and are they also hackable? Thanks in advance.

Power supplies are also fun to build from a kit or from scratch, and a lot of very usable stuff can be bought for very little money nowaday's. For a "higher power" power supply the DPS5005 is very popular.

(Btw, thanks a lot for your post with lots of useful info!)
Sounds very interresting, and something we could do. Looks fairly simple without any soldering(i can solder, but some of my projects have failed even though it was done 100% after the manual and images, might be china crap though...
But back to the point, i wanna buy a casing and a module like DPS5005 to put into it, but there is so many different versions? Communications? no communications? ref: https://www.ebay.com/itm//323287506186
I want to have something like 15A 50V just to have a wide range. But i want everything in one kit, but i am a bit confused with the different module names and sometimes they seem to use another powersupply with the module(LRS-150-48)?
Should i build two into one housing? or can i keep them separate? ref: https://quade.co/2017/diy-bench-power-supply/

I pitch the Analog Discovery 2 quite often.  But it's an expensive gadget, all in, and people just don't want to give it a try.

Wow, sounds quite interresting. We will defenately check it out in our next budget! thanks for making me curious

The same "all options included" deal is available in Europe, e.g. here: https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html.

Thanks a lot!

[KMoffett]

A couple of sizes of hemostats
https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Hemostat-Mosquito-Straight-5-Inch/dp/B004C32AIQ/ref=asc_df_B004C32AIQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167137788230&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6805541773987427842&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019538&hvtargid=pla-304496369926&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/Squadron-Products-Curved-Micro-Hemostat/dp/B000CDM4RC
Couple of sizes solder wick
https://www.amazon.com/UTP-Solder-Remover-Desoldering-Soldering/dp/B07C5S5L3W/ref=sr_1_1?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1530631377&sr=1-1&keywords=solder+wick&dpID=41AbdIvgJNL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
https://www.amazon.com/NTE-Electronics-SW02-25-No-Clean-Solder/dp/B0195UMPDK/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&qid=1530631522&sr=8-27&keywords=solder+wick
Solder flux paste
https://www.amazon.com/Rosin-Paste-Flux-135-Jar/dp/B008ZIV85A/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1530631595&sr=8-4&keywords=solder+paste+for+electronics

Actually there's no end.

Ken

[TK]

AD1 / AD2 requires a PC or laptop with Windows, which must be updated and maintained free of virus, etc... For a public lab space, it is better a benchtop instrument

[FlyingHacker]

Don’t forget lots of breadboards and jumper wires. You will want to leave these together for a while sometimes. So you want a bunch of them. Do limit yourself to one breadboard and have to constantly rebuild things.

Many people say you must get the expensive 3M (or other name brand) breadboards. They are definitely better, but I find the eBay cheapies to work just fine for experimenting.