What is PowerScope

[RJFreeman]

But then I guess that was why John (who sounded like he was no fool) would have started looking at Niche products like the Powerscope.

[AllTheGearNoIdea]

I was clearing out my stores at work when I found my old powerscope II. Perhaps some TEA sufferers will enjoy a quick look. The fun starts about 18 minutes in. Part two will show the scope in more detail.

https://youtu.be/wWGGbHnRqo0

Regards Chris

[Cliff Matthews]

This is an Australian "Power Scope" in action.
FWIW, if this nice instrument were mine I would restore the color on the bezel :-)
https://youtu.be/QJXpzKi9t98?t=22s

[AllTheGearNoIdea]

Thanks Cliff

I bet someone on here can probably design a better mains cross detector LOL !

I think the bezel is a tribute to those that think a brown bathroom suites is stylish  Still the turquoise knobs are a nice touch.

Regards Chris

[Electro Detective]

Guys, great info and video      and FWIW watch out for input 5, the trigger input on the far right.  

IIRC it is not isolated because the BNC connector case is tied to earth ground on the scope  i.e. not differential

EDIT: ALL the input BNC connector cases are tied to earth/ground in the same manner, the differential/isolation magic happens because of the P90 probe wiring which makes no outer ring connection

So watch out for that if you plan to use different cables, probes and adapters etc

Same deal with the rear connectors, I plan to somehow jerry rig cable one day to feed a 4 channel single ended input DSO without instigating pre-NYE fireworks

The scope leads came in two types, P90 (1x) and P91 (10x)
They sorta look the same, watch out for that otherwise if you mix them the differential measurements may not look like what you expect   


Does anyone still repair/service these Powerscopes in Australia? 

[tautech]

Guys, great info and video      and FWIW watch out for input 5, the trigger input on the far right.  

IIRC it is not isolated because the BNC connector case is tied to earth ground on the scope  i.e. not differential

Same deal with the rear connectors, which I plan to somehow jerry rig cable one day to feed a 4 channel single ended input DSO without instigating pre-NYE fireworks

The scope leads came in two types, P90 (1x) and P91 (10x)
They sorta look the same, watch out for that otherwise if you mix them the differential measurements may not look like what you expect   


Does anyone still repair/service these Powerscopes in Australia? 

The best selection of BWD manuals that I've seen is from Kevin Chant:
http://www.kevinchant.com/bwd.html
But there's no powerscope ones there. 

AFAIK McBride in Melbourne IIRC or is it Adelaide still has some bits and pieces for BWD.

[Circlotron]

Here's me, back in late 1985 (edit -> late 1986) scratching my face and staring at the brand new PowerScope we just got. I was the design engineer and we used to make SCR based soft starters for 3-phase induction motors up to IIRC 1000A per phase. Fun times!

[AllTheGearNoIdea]

Wow really nice to get some context around using the 881. It's definitely not as smooth a user experience as using equipment from the big boys TEK etc. The push  switches are particularly annoying  and I'm guessing they could not afford the cost of developing custom switches at the time. I'm not too convinced by the styling with the mix of cream turquoise and brown not exactly a super hero colour scheme. What were they thinking ?

I have one of the 10:1 probes they come in a blue pouch all the others are contained in red pouches.   The 10:1 only has a single connector lead but has the ground clip so I assume this is not differential and was perhaps designed for channel 5.

I don't really like the idea of fused probes either, not that you should be using the scope as a dead tester. The probes are painful to disassemble as you see in part 1.

I love the picture above the expression on your face says it all. It reminds me of listening to Jazz. It like music but shit.

I wonder how it's performance compares to the new EEV differential adapter ?

[AllTheGearNoIdea]

Just wondered with all the face scratching if you got your grey beard now given the picture was taken in 85. Great picture thanks for sharing

Chris

[tautech]

Wow really nice to get some context around using the 881. It's definitely not as smooth a user experience as using equipment from the big boys TEK etc. The push  switches are particularly annoying  and I'm guessing they could not afford the cost of developing customer switches at the time. I'm not too convinced by the styling with the mix of cream turquoise and brown not exactly a super hero colour scheme. What were they thinking ?

I've only had one BWD scope and all the images I've seen of them indeed they used a different colour scheme to anything else on the market, intentional ? Of course IMHO.

I have one of the 10:1 probes they come in a blue pouch all the others are contained in red pouches.   The 10:1 only has a single connector lead but has the ground clip so I assume this is not differential and was perhaps designed for channel 5.

I don't really like the idea of fused probes either, not that you should be using the scope as a dead tester. The probes are painful to disassemble as you see in part 1.

Powersopes were quite unique and in some way still are just like Circlotron pointed out with his specialised (for then) usage decades ago.

I think a buddy still has one stashed away.....I'll give him a yell to see if he still has it and knowing him he might have the manuals too.

[Electro Detective]

I've only had one BWD scope and all the images I've seen of them indeed they used a different colour scheme to anything else on the market, intentional ? Of course IMHO.

A different colour scheme and layout etc is a surefire way to be competitive, and NOT get sued for 'inspired' styling

I think a buddy still has one stashed away.....I'll give him a yell to see if he still has it and knowing him he might have the manuals too.

15 minutes of fame awaits the gent here and any info is appreciated   

These scopes aren't going to fade away easily, well mine isn't,
it's the only piece of gear I can confidently 'probe' a suspect or fluctuating circuit containg voltage grunt, and not pray  too loud

[AllTheGearNoIdea]

Yes I could do with a manual also. Many thanks Chris

[Electro Detective]

I checked the fuses in my four P90 probes (1x) to ensure they are 100ma fast blow 3AG glass types,
and sorted one which wasn't performing consistently, and had the issue pictured,
semi-hidden, hard to spot cracked solder joints

Removed the fuse first, in case I cooked it, then a solder refresh just enough to do the cracked sides only, and good as new.
Multimeter reads about 33 to 37 Ohms for any of the 4 probes, which is the 100ma fuse impedance (and a quick way to check rather than disassemble) 

The P91 probes (10x) are next, best left for another day asap,
...perhaps a more fiddly job you need 4 hands (and two brains?) to assemble   

[Electro Detective]

I have one of the 10:1 probes they come in a blue pouch all the others are contained in red pouches.   The 10:1 only has a single connector lead but has the ground clip so I assume this is not differential and was perhaps designed for channel 5.

I have one of those too, if you unscrew the snapping jaws thingie, the ground clip plastic ring assembly just slides up and out. Give it a slight twist to wake it up
The specs are/should be the same as a regular P91 (10x) without the death croc attached, but please verify for yourself   

I don't really like the idea of fused probes either, not that you should be using the scope as a dead tester. The probes are painful to disassemble  as you see in part 1.

It gets easier...     after the 8th one   

[tautech]

I think a buddy still has one stashed away.....I'll give him a yell to see if he still has it and knowing him he might have the manuals too.

15 minutes of fame awaits the gent here and any info is appreciated   

These scopes aren't going to fade away easily, well mine isn't,
it's the only piece of gear I can confidently 'probe' a suspect or fluctuating circuit containing voltage grunt, and not pray  too loud

Yep, he actually has three, yes three ! 
880 x 1
881 Powerscope 2 x 2
Only has the 881 Manual available for scanning. 

Never scanned a manual before so would need some guidance on the best path to take.
I have an inbuilt scanner on a printer that works OK....not networked but can save the scans locally and send them on.

What's the best method to accumulate them....into Word and then Save as a PDF ? ?

Intended targets to upload manual to are Kevin Chant (mentioned above) and EBAMAN.
I can get the manual most any day but ATM I have a job I'm working on for Siglent that must take precedence.

[Electro Detective]

Scan to PDF might be the easiest one step process and WYSIWYG ?   

Where does one upload to for free, without joining some 'free' tr0jan installing download site ?

Yep, he actually has three, yes three ! 
880 x 1
881 Powerscope 2 x 2

My freshly calibrated Fruke Envy Meter is reading "OL"     

I can get the manual most any day but ATM I have a job I'm working on for Siglent that must take precedence.

There's no hurry or obligation, whenever it works for you     

[Moshly]

Previous thread on bwd manuals -> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bwd-product-catalogues-(vintage)/

This seller on ebay has power scopes listed occasionally > http://stores.ebay.com.au/test-equipment-auctions
But they never sell because they ask $600 AUD   

[Circlotron]

But they never sell because they ask $600 AUD   

Brand new in 1986 they cost $4200 

[RJFreeman]

Where does one upload to for free, without joining some 'free' tr0jan installing download site ?

I either upload to the Boat Anchor Manual Archive:
http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/

or Ebaman:
http://ebaman.com/
(which has the dodgy copies of the 881 that I uploaded - please feel free to replace these with better/clearer versions).
My approach (which was limited by the lack of flexibility of my scanner - which presumed all the pages were the same size) was to scan the A4 pages as one file, and the schematics (which were usually A3 pages) as the 'schematics' file.

You generally do have to sign up to these sites, and to be fair it would be ill advised to set up such a site, and then make it open-slather so anyone could upload whatever they wanted.

Having said that I can vouch for both BAMA and Ebaman. My understanding is that BAMA was set up for older manuals (although I have uploaded one or two BWD manuals) while Ebaman is for any manuals, including those for more contemporary equipment.

[tautech]

Where does one upload to for free, without joining some 'free' tr0jan installing download site ?

I either upload to the Boat Anchor Manual Archive:
http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/

or Ebaman:
http://ebaman.com/
(which has the dodgy copies of the 881 that I uploaded - please feel free to replace these with better/clearer versions).
My approach (which was limited by the lack of flexibility of my scanner - which presumed all the pages were the same size) was to scan the A4 pages as one file, and the schematics (which were usually A3 pages) as the 'schematics' file.

You generally do have to sign up to these sites, and to be fair it would be ill advised to set up such a site, and then make it open-slather so anyone could upload whatever they wanted.

Having said that I can vouch for both BAMA and Ebaman. My understanding is that BAMA was set up for older manuals (although I have uploaded one or two BWD manuals) while Ebaman is for any manuals, including those for more contemporary equipment.

Thanks for some scanning insights. 

My thoughts were to have copies at both sides of the world, hence EBAMAN and Kev's site.
I have an A/c at EBAMAN so that's the logical choice for me then I can just email it to Kev and he'll take it from there. (if it's not too big) The other option is to put it in a hidden page on my website and once Kev's got it delete it.
 
I'll check the 881 manual you've uploaded and make some plan from there.

[tautech]

or Ebaman:
http://ebaman.com/
(which has the dodgy copies of the 881 that I uploaded - please feel free to replace these with better/clearer versions).

Thanks again, you may have saved me a big job as those manuals look plenty good enough for those wanting to repair an 881. The two 1.6 Mb files are fine, schematics well clear enough and quite legible. 
However they are only the schematics (Pt 2) and 881 specs, manual changes, adjustment and alignment portions (Pt 1), do we need more ? 

ED, I'll email them to you if you don't want to setup an EBAMAN A/c. PM me.

[Electro Detective]

I just realised I had those "dodgy copies of the 881 files" 
not sure if there's any missing parts, but looking forward to any puzzle completion work guys, this aussie classic workhorse needs preserving 

I reckon there's a few still kicking about
forgotten warriors exiled to locked cabinets and storage bunkers, since the DSO and Differential Probe invasion took hold...    

FWIW once posted I have a mate who 'might' (enter beer and jug smiley) OCR the files at his work, and crossed fingers include Index Table/Chapter and Search/Find capability that you see on most PDFs. 

Assuming no legal issues to think about,
is there anyone that must be consulted first for an 'official ok' ? 

But they never sell because they ask $600 AUD   

Brand new in 1986 they cost $4200 

$600 isn't too bad for what it is
...if there isn't another $3600 to spend on renovations and calibrations once it arrives     ((    x100 ))

[Circlotron]

And that's 1986 dollars BTW.

[IconicPCB]

BWD gear was never designed with custom or non standard components.
The zerocrossover and phase instrument were based on standard CMOS PLL and counters.
The vertical amplifiers were typically designed around LM733 and descrete transistors...
Vertical attenuators...descrete metal film resistors.

In fact i seem to recall vertical gain was not an issue in case of powerscope...

[Electro Detective]

And that's 1986 dollars BTW.

$11,000 today, give or take a slab of beer ?

BWD gear was never designed with custom or non standard components.
The zerocrossover and phase instrument were based on standard CMOS PLL and counters.
The vertical amplifiers were typically designed around LM733 and descrete transistors...
Vertical attenuators...descrete metal film resistors.

In fact i seem to recall vertical gain was not an issue in case of powerscope...

Good recall, at the 200v per division position armed with a pair of the 10x probes,
you can get some serious prodding work done, without too much 'isolation' head scratching

That said, it still pays to verify everything is working first every time, before snapping away with those stock Big Momma probes
and cobbled up DIY adapters to boldly go where no probe has gone before...