What multimeter should i get?

[saturation]

Yes, noticed that the number of 1253a available seems coincidental with the Grainger deal.  But if you're in the market for one, Grainger's price is unbeatable but its product offerings are not indexed on google.  If you search on the grainger deal the only link to it is eevblog at least in the first 10 pages of returns.

The U1253A is all over ebay now. Everyone is trying to cash in and make a profit on them (except for Dave ofcourse, he got his way before the sale )

U1253A is out of stock at Grainger now despite still being listed. I was going to order one using PriceUSA

[Excavatoree]

The U1253A is all over ebay now. Everyone is trying to cash in and make a profit on them (except for Dave ofcourse, he got his way before the sale )

Selling a meter is against my religion.



(Yes, I've done it, but they were sold to friends at low prices - I consider that "missionary work" to spread the gospel of Fluke)

[Zero999]

Hi
What about this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mastech-MS8233B-Digital-Multimeter-AC-Voltage-Detector-/200590239627?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb41c278b#ht_3521wt_1139


or this one http://cgi.ebay.com/VC97-3999-Autorange-multimeter-compared-w-FLUKE-15B-New-/180642851154?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0f272952#ht_2643wt_905

or this one http://cgi.ebay.com/New-VC97-4000-Auto-range-multimeter-compared-w-FLUKE-/180642863317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0f2758d5#ht_2431wt_905

or this one http://cgi.ebay.com/MS8221-Auto-range-multimeter-compared-FLUKE-15B-light-/170557168510?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b5ffdb7e#ht_2435wt_905

or this one http://cgi.ebay.com/VC6243-Multimeter-Inductance-Capacitance-compared-Fluke-/190512715945?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item2c5b7158a9#ht_4197wt_905

or this one http://cgi.ebay.com/MS8221-Auto-range-multimeter-compared-FLUKE-15B-light-/300501515151?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f7493b8f#ht_2449wt_949

What do they mean compared FLUKE 15B? Does that mean it's a Fluke or it supposedly has the same specification/quality as a Fluke?  I suspect it's a scam. They're not Flukes and they're using the trademark illegally. The meters might be fine for working with small batteries but i wouldn't hook one up to the three phase.

[baljemmett]

What do they mean compared FLUKE 15B? Does that mean it's a Fluke or it supposedly has the same specification/quality as a Fluke?

Typically 'just' a way to get more visibility in search results -- see also laptops with "NOT Dell, HP, Lenovo" and lenses with "like Canon, Nikkor, Sony" in the listings.  Gah.

[alm]

Probably also to let unsuspecting buyers think it's actually a Fluke they're buying.

[toli]

did anyone else notice they've removed the meters from the website?

They've also removed the order from order-history, is this just me or its the same with everyone?

BTW, I've ended up ordering the 1253a using a company that gave me a US bases shipping address, the item should arrive to me in a few days.

[saturation]

Just checked, u1253a is still there and my order history is intact, it might clear if you did not make an account or never ordered it.

did anyone else notice they've removed the meters from the website?

They've also removed the order from order-history, is this just me or its the same with everyone?

BTW, I've ended up ordering the 1253a using a company that gave me a US bases shipping address, the item should arrive to me in a few days.

[toli]

I did make an account. If fact it was already received in the US address I've received for TNT, and is already on route to Israel.

I guess they've removed it after the UPS package has been signed for.

EDIT: strange, when I search for "u1253a" I can't find it, but with "3REA6" I see it on their website. Still not in my order history, I'll just send them an email and ask them directly.

[saturation]

I don't know, but I presume you're accessing your account from an Israeli IP address?  Maybe its being blocked.  My location is USA so all is well, just an FYI.

I did make an account. If fact it was already received in the US address I've received for TNT, and is already on route to Israel.

I guess they've removed it after the UPS package has been signed for.

EDIT: strange, when I search for "u1253a" I can't find it, but with "3REA6" I see it on their website. Still not in my order history, I'll just send them an email and ask them directly.

[toli]

I doubt it, I've ordered using the same address

I've also tried printing a .txt file with the order history (using their website), and the order appears there. I've sent them an email, I'll know why its not showing up there once i get their response.

[slburris]

My Grainger order has disappeared as well and I
did create an account.

My UPS package hasn't been signed for, but
it was in Hodgkins, IL yesterday.  I never could
pull up my order status either, being told I was
unauthorized.  But a quick email to them got me
the order status and the UPS #.  Still, Grainger's
whole ecommerce experience seems a little wonky.

They do seem mostly set up to cater to businesses,
not individuals, so maybe that's tripping something up
after I listed my company name as "hobbyist".

Anyone know what the backstory is?  Why are
$450 Agilent meters being closed out?  Something new
coming out?  I would have been suspicious to order
if this had been buycheapmultimeters.com :-)

Scott

[saturation]

Hmm, something is wrong then.   I guess I rated them a bit more positively because I received the unit in 2 business days, FWIW.  

I did not get tracking numbers nor notification which carrier they used, checking my order status came up 'unauthorized' but I did get 1 confirmation email; my CC was charged the next day so I knew it went through.

But, overall I'd assess them as 3/5 and buyer beware as wonky is right [ good term!]; if it weren't for the low price grainger.com comes up with sometimes, they aren't on my list of preferred vendors.

The units described by purchasers on eevblog show expired or soon to expire cal certificates and are over 2+ years old from manufacture date. They at least, read like overstock.  By contrast the Rigol 1052e [ released in 2008/9] I bought was in my hands <~ 4 months [ early 2010] from the original manufacture date [ and not 2008 or 9].

My Grainger order has disappeared as well and I
did create an account.

My UPS package hasn't been signed for, but
it was in Hodgkins, IL yesterday.  I never could
pull up my order status either, being told I was
unauthorized.  But a quick email to them got me
the order status and the UPS #.  Still, Grainger's
whole ecommerce experience seems a little wonky.

They do seem mostly set up to cater to businesses,
not individuals, so maybe that's tripping something up
after I listed my company name as "hobbyist".

Anyone know what the backstory is?  Why are
$450 Agilent meters being closed out?  Something new
coming out?  I would have been suspicious to order
if this had been buycheapmultimeters.com :-)

Scott

[urbanwriter]

Dave (and a couple others)

This is all your fault - I never would have spent the loot for an Agilent U1251A (and I didn't get the $US price ) without your hectoring - and now I have  a meter that will drive me nuts. Imagine, my Fluke 77 was so in demand when new that there was a waiting list at the distributor, put your cash down and wait in line was the drill. After years of faithful service, decades in actual fact, it went in for a wee bit of work. I don't know the rules on plugging a particular metrology lab, so rather than get 'corrected,' I'll wait. But they did a great job of bringing a sadly out of tolerance meter back well within original specification. All well and good.

But I've also been following the endless 'what meter should a beginner get' threads and I know that some people are too lazy to look around, see what's there, and make their own choice. And I know that people get tired of answering 'the question' again, and again, and again. But there is one thing that seems 'forgotten' by some.

Life was, once, easy. There were analog meters. There were good ones. They cost a lot of money. There were bad ones. They didn't cost so much. But there were never thousands of variations.

Now Fluke offers some 30 different meters, in different lines, capabilities, species. At least. And Agilient - oh, by my count , some 27 meters or meters/kit. I'm not going to count all the meters I can find, but one vendors first page is instructive: there are 60 different meters, and not one is Fluke, Dranetz, Agilent, or Tek. And I didn't notice more than one or two UNI-T meters...

The advice, well meant, is to 'get what you need.' Great. If I bought today, what I needed 30 years ago, it would be a Simpson. Fantastic meter. Tough. Accurate. Rebuildable. Today it is more or less junk - it doesn't do capacitance, it doesn't resolve to pico-amps, it doesn't count frequency, or any of the dozens of really handy things that meters do. And, with experience, you get a little handle on 'what you need,' but I'm just getting back in to a field that I left when telephone exchanges required day-in, day-out, relay filing. And god help you if your Telstar medallion started flirting with the switch-gear while you were on a ladder. Ouch. Idiot child.

Now I'm back. And I looked for a new meter, literally, for months. Why months? Well. I like to play with inductors of various forms, doing various jobs. I've never touched an SMT part in my life - but they seem the way things are going - perhaps I'll buy a truckload of through-hole components before they're all declared obsolete. Do I get this one - measures, after a fashion, femto-amps. Or that one over there with the really bright yellow case. Or the red/gray one that the local, somewhat dusty, parts house handles. And what if I want to measure 10 A. And can I stand to live with 50,000 counts. What's data-logging? And which one comes with test-leads I'd trust my life to?

The answer to all this is in my hand: I'm the new, and slightly dazzled, owner of an Agilent U1251A. Why that meter? Because, like other variations on 'beginner,' I gave up. I can delete a variety of Fluke meters from my list, but it is really difficult to determine which single meter will actually 'do' the job. So, when I walked in to an alternate supplier that had the U1251A (rather than the U3257 b MK 3a) in stock, on sale, in front of me, I went for it.

And it's all your fault. So, while I love your videos, and appreciate your gripes with people who complain about 'how you should have done' some particular topic, reserve a small sympathy for those who inquire (after endless searching) 'what should I buy.'

And I hope this winds up in the right spot in the queue

Damn, that is insanely CHEAP!

Dave.
[/quote]

[Kiriakos-GR]

Dave (and a couple others)

Well I belong to the others ... and I had read before an hour ago,
and message that proves that Agilent , has an terrible and poor behavior in everything haves to do with customer support.

And some people will say who cares, but I do ,
and so no matter how you feel about your DMM ,
the truth is that if you come to the point to face Agilent customers support,
the most possible will be to regret the moment that you had take it.

Now if we speak about the price point " Cheap " ,
well get two if possible .. if your first gets damaged and needs to be send to Agilent,
you will be 12 weeks with out it.

[saturation]

@Kiriakos: yes, its at the DMM.s thread.  Sorry to hear about their product quality and you are right.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2306.msg40035#msg40035

@urbanwriter: glad you are joining our electronics zen!  FWIW I've been putting the 1252a through its paces, and it has many superior features over the Fluke 87V; its principal drawback is ergonomics over the 87V.  It didn't try to copy Fluke, as lesser meters do, they tend to 'work a like' a Fluke, even look like it. The Agilent has many design elements to make it say its not a Fluke clone, and more like a meter that will stand on its own merits.  No wonder Agilent bought the Escort DMM folks, they had good engineers and ideas.

So far, its best features:

Fast measurements, and rock stable, except the last digit, which now requires some metrological technique, but it was shocking to see that in a low cost field meter, the last digit isn't just random fluctuations.

>10x more accurate in Vac TRMS > 100kHz, Fluke's capacity is best at <=  1kHz, tested with sine, sq, and triangle waveforms.

Higher frequency limit on its counter

Dual display: when doing the tests, I could view Hz and Vac simultaneously, that helped confirm what my generator was doing.

Logging, I find it more helpful every day [ I used to pencil a value now and then, now I can just hit a button, rather than simply HOLD to latch a value the write it down.]

While the battery life is lower than Fluke 87V, its fairly easy to charge it and the LCD version will give you a full working day, in excess of 8 hours ON continuously, with power to spare.  So, I just charge it when I'm done with it, or when the battery is down 50% [ it has a user checkable battery voltmeter.]

Testing continues, my comparison meter is an bench HP3456a accurate to 10uV, the signal source is an Instek SFG 1003 stable to < 20 ppm, 0.01% resistors, etc.,

[slburris]

My u1253a from Grainger arrived today.  Sep 14 2009 calibration date.
Love the OLED display!  At $450 list, there was no real reason I could
justify buying it.  At $140, there's still no good reason, but I found myself
unable to resist the deal.  Also love the update rate on this meter!

Started out trying to turn it on.  Nothing.  Well, probably the rechargeable
battery had spent a couple years in a warehouse.  So I plugged in the charger.
Did it's usual 10 second to testing countdown, then said overload and stayed on
a 3 minute countdown.

So I find the battery is wrapped and not connected in the compartment.  Fair
enough, but how about putting a message up about no battery inserted instead
of the unhelpful "overload"?  Does no one at Agilent think about user interface?

Put the battery in, went through the count down and 3 minute self test, then it says
"charge error".  The battery icon shows full.  OK, I try the meter with just the battery
and now it powers up and works.  Woohoo!  After about 5 minutes, the battery shows
discharged and powers down.

OK, so now I'm going to try several charge/discharge cycles to try to wake the battery up.
If that fails, I'll toss the battery and go find a better one.  If I had paid $450, I would
have already given Agilent a demerit.  Since it was heavily discounted, and probably sat
for 2 years because the price was too high, I'm giving them half a demerit.

Did I say I love this display.  I can read it with no excuses.

Scott

[toli]

Hi Scott,

I've had exactly the same issue! Keep us posted as to how long the battery lasts.

BTW, mine was calibrated on November 19th 2009, so looks like they are about the same.

[EEVblog]

This whole U1253A story is rather interesting.
I remember getting absolutely hammered by all and sundry (those who had never used one BTW) at the time of my review for giving this meter a qualified thumbs up.
Yet, now everyone has one they seem to have nothing but praise for it (apart from the battery thing of course).

Can I claim this one as a "I told you so"? 

Dave.

[gobblegobble]

Started out trying to turn it on.  Nothing.  Well, probably the rechargeable
battery had spent a couple years in a warehouse.  So I plugged in the charger.
Did it's usual 10 second to testing countdown, then said overload and stayed on
a 3 minute countdown.

So I find the battery is wrapped and not connected in the compartment.  Fair
enough, but how about putting a message up about no battery inserted instead
of the unhelpful "overload"?  Does no one at Agilent think about user interface?

May I suggest checking the manual, specifically the part related to battery recharging where it tells you that the "over limit" means that the battery values measured aren't within limits: either too high or too low voltage to be fit for recharging. In this case, zero volts due to no battery.

Put the battery in, went through the count down and 3 minute self test, then it says
"charge error".  The battery icon shows full.  OK, I try the meter with just the battery
and now it powers up and works.  Woohoo!  After about 5 minutes, the battery shows
discharged and powers down.

I'm guessing it's too old, and cheap to begin with battery that's taken it's toll for the years of storage? You're not the only one having trouble getting the battery working. It was discounted after all (although I do agree they should mention the cal cert is no longer valid and the battery is probably dead).


Edit added:

If the OVER LIMIT message is displayed, and there is a battery inside the multimeter, please do not charge the battery.

If the CHARGE ERROR message is displayed, check whether the battery is the specified type. The correct battery type is specified in this guide. Please ensure that the battery in the multimeter is the specified type of rechargeable battery before charging it. After replacing any wrong battery with the correct specified type of rechargeable battery, press to redo the self-test. Replace with a new battery if the CHARGE ERROR message is again displayed.

[PetrosA]

This whole U1253A story is rather interesting.
I remember getting absolutely hammered by all and sundry (those who had never used one BTW) at the time of my review for giving this meter a qualified thumbs up.
Yet, now everyone has one they seem to have nothing but praise for it (apart from the battery thing of course).

Can I claim this one as a "I told you so"? 

Dave.

I'd say you can It seems to me that a lot of the negative feedback then was due to Fluke's brand image in so many consumers' minds. For a lot of people then (and even now...) it wasn't possible that a new kid on the block could be giving Fluke a run for their money. In reality, Agilent is doing just that with some useful innovations, good quality and relatively decent price point. They do need to work on customer service (stories like the 12 week wait for service are ridiculous), but if they can fix that they'll gain a lot of customers.

I wasn't brand loyal when I came here, and your review of the Agilent back then kept me open enough that I ultimately got two Agilents.

Now, as you said, "everybody has one"

[slburris]

May I suggest checking the manual, specifically the part related to battery recharging where it tells you that the "over limit" means that the battery values measured aren't within limits: either too high or too low voltage to be fit for recharging. In this case, zero volts due to no battery.

So in this day and age where they don't actually give you a paper manual,
and knowing human nature to just turn things on, I'd like better ergonomics.
They have a nice graphical display to put out a decent message, darn it, use it!

I did get a nice sheet of paper from Agilent saying how happy they were that I
had made the wise decision to choose Agilent products.  If they want to save
on paper, how about eliminating that instead of the manual? :-)

I'm just grumbling that companies should spend much more time thinking about
the human interface than they do.  I should be able to pick something up
and without instruction be able to figure out basic operation.  And for the most part,
this meter meets that criteria.

Scott

[saturation]

Its price vs performance; Agilent could reduce prices, temporarily or for a limited time, when introducing new products so it can establish a reputation quickly.  It could even make mandatory those getting special prices to write a review, or they will be billed the difference in the discount

Once real world reviews by field users are out it will have a reputation, good or bad; [ which is, despite eevblog, the prinicipal way equipment recommendations still get made]; normal reviews from field users spread by word of mouth and take a long time; a low price can help buyers prioritize a cheaper untested new design, particularly if its as low as 60% off its list and competitors price, even if temporary for +/- a limited time.  Its better than just relying of spec sheets and 'believe me' testimonials.

I suspect its a key reason a good number of eevblog users who read the Grainger deal here, even if we didn't need another DMM, opted for one, and now we know Agilent DMMs better than just an external review, and find some niche for it to fill.

That said, the 1252a is a great meter for $140, but if price were equal the Fluke 87V is still better for general purpose.  I'm finding new quirks as I use it more, nothing serious but annoying.  Maybe these are fixed in the 1270 series.

Here's one of the worst.  Sent via my phone, so forgive the quality.



In the end, if you own a Fluke, a Gossen Metrawatt and an Agilent OLED, what you end up reaching for on reflex is the one that appeals to you in so many ways, and .. well the one that doesn't seem to meet your standards, even if its a good DMM in its own right, ends up in eBay.

This whole U1253A story is rather interesting.
I remember getting absolutely hammered by all and sundry (those who had never used one BTW) at the time of my review for giving this meter a qualified thumbs up.
Yet, now everyone has one they seem to have nothing but praise for it (apart from the battery thing of course).

Can I claim this one as a "I told you so"?  

Dave.

I'd say you can It seems to me that a lot of the negative feedback then was due to Fluke's brand image in so many consumers' minds. For a lot of people then (and even now...) it wasn't possible that a new kid on the block could be giving Fluke a run for their money. In reality, Agilent is doing just that with some useful innovations, good quality and relatively decent price point. They do need to work on customer service (stories like the 12 week wait for service are ridiculous), but if they can fix that they'll gain a lot of customers.

I wasn't brand loyal when I came here, and your review of the Agilent back then kept me open enough that I ultimately got two Agilents.

Now, as you said, "everybody has one"

[saturation]

Re-reviewing Dave's video from 2010 on the 1253a, it spot on, and sums up what others on eevblog have also concluded.  Its a great meter, and the OLED is nice as a bench-style meter in a portable's clothing, but it does have flaws to preclude its use for field use over other competitor DMMs.

The LCD 1252a is not too far behind either as its too sensitive for field work, and the super fast reading speed is tempered by its extreme sensitivity, thus the last 2-3 digits can take more time to settle in noisy electrical environments; it needs a filter setting like the 87V or you'll be using the minmaxavg function a lot to smooth out the raw reading. 

[gobblegobble]

Pardon the thinned out quoting, as I don't want to make a mile long post by quotes alone.

So in this day and age where they don't actually give you a paper manual,
and knowing human nature to just turn things on, I'd like better ergonomics.
They have a nice graphical display to put out a decent message, darn it, use it!

I'm just grumbling that companies should spend much more time thinking about
the human interface than they do.  I should be able to pick something up
and without instruction be able to figure out basic operation.  And for the most part,
this meter meets that criteria.

For the display being underused I wholly agree with you and Dave, they didn't really use much any of the possibilities it has over the U1252A's segmented display which is a real shame. Partially though it makes me much more content with my purchase choice of U1252A over the U1253A.

That said, the 1252a is a great meter for $140, but if price were equal the Fluke 87V is still better for general purpose.  I'm finding new quirks as I use it more, nothing serious but annoying.  Maybe these are fixed in the 1270 series.

Here's one of the worst.  Sent via my phone, so forgive the quality.

Wow. So Fluke is sensitive to GSM and Agilent is sensitive to static...
The advatage might be at Agilent though as they're still brushing up their line of products and can (plus hopefully will) fix annoying features like that on a new model which comes out sooner than later. Fluke doesn't refresh their line nearly as often and radically so it could take a while to see a "GSM proof" 87 come out.

[saturation]

Yes, it shows Agilent engineers still have room to improve in ergonomics in DMMs, were Fluke excels.

One should try to make devices operable without a manual as much as possible, all that's needed is exploration of the buttons and labels on the device.  To see how far we've come from lack of intuition, watch the evolution of well respected, venerable, but difficult to operate without the manual, pre-Agilent HP test equipment.

While the basic DMM functions are easily deciphered, where the 1252a excels is its advanced functions, and that isn't exactly intuitive.  Also, making letter readouts on the 8 segment LCD is a challenge alone, and some letters just don't come through.  Also, while the setup controls seems intuitive at first, try setting the ambient temp readout from Celsius to Fahrenheit, only the manual explains it.

Given that electronics has shrunk is size and weight over the years, the fixed size and weight of paper increasingly becomes a sizable part of items boxed with the product, if they printed the whole manual like the old days. 

Agilent manuals are clean, easy to read and direct but a notch less hello-kitty friendly as Fluke 87V manual .

Pardon the thinned out quoting, as I don't want to make a mile long post by quotes alone.

So in this day and age where they don't actually give you a paper manual,
and knowing human nature to just turn things on, I'd like better ergonomics.
They have a nice graphical display to put out a decent message, darn it, use it!

I'm just grumbling that companies should spend much more time thinking about
the human interface than they do.  I should be able to pick something up
and without instruction be able to figure out basic operation.  And for the most part,
this meter meets that criteria.

For the display being underused I wholly agree with you and Dave, they didn't really use much any of the possibilities it has over the U1252A's segmented display which is a real shame. Partially though it makes me much more content with my purchase choice of U1252A over the U1253A.

That said, the 1252a is a great meter for $140, but if price were equal the Fluke 87V is still better for general purpose.  I'm finding new quirks as I use it more, nothing serious but annoying.  Maybe these are fixed in the 1270 series.

Here's one of the worst.  Sent via my phone, so forgive the quality.

Wow. So Fluke is sensitive to GSM and Agilent is sensitive to static...
The advatage might be at Agilent though as they're still brushing up their line of products and can (plus hopefully will) fix annoying features like that on a new model which comes out sooner than later. Fluke doesn't refresh their line nearly as often and radically so it could take a while to see a "GSM proof" 87 come out.