Author Topic: When do u need a bench multimeter ?  (Read 7657 times)

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Offline lordvader88Topic starter

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When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« on: April 14, 2018, 10:24:40 pm »
What's the real advantage of them, past and present  ?
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2018, 10:56:13 pm »
I'm sure there are some low end bench meters.  Normally, I would expect support for 4-wire measurements,  higher accuracy, resolution, repeatable, Ethernet or some means to interface it to a computer for automated testing and data collection. 

I do not expect them to have a CAT rating and to be as electrically robust as a handheld meter. 

Offline tpowell1830

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2018, 05:55:18 am »
What's the real advantage of them, past and present  ?

In my view, a bench meter is a permanent fixture of convenience so you don't have to get out your meter from your toolbox and unwound the cord while working at bench. I have multiple handheld meters, so this is not an issue, although I still have the bench meter available. Also, some have more digits for precision measurements than a handheld.
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Online bd139

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2018, 07:33:36 am »
I use mine when I need to leave it on for a day or so and measure something via computer (cell discharge, very slow PLL control loop). Also it tends to stay where I last left it. Also battery is never flat and the display is bright all the time (VFD)
 

Offline MosherIV

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 09:33:27 am »
Resolution and accuracy!

You can only get 5.5 or more digit meters as bench meters. Makes sense, the kind of detailed work involving such resulotion generally done on benches. Additionally, they often need to be logged over periods of time ie need to be connected to a logging computer.
 
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Offline Nusa

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 10:21:36 am »
But if you don't need extreme precision and have adequate vision to read smaller displays, the short answer is that you don't NEED a bench multimeter. Good hand-held meters will do >99% of the measuring tasks that most of us need to do, for less money.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 10:32:06 am »
Resolution and accuracy!

You can only get 5.5 or more digit meters as bench meters.
Actually no.
New 4 1/2 digit bench DMM's are available.
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-multimeters/sdm3045x-digital-multimeter/

But if you don't need extreme precision and have adequate vision to read smaller displays, the short answer is that you don't NEED a bench multimeter.
Then you've never seen a good bench DMM display that can be seen from meters away. 
Try that with a HH DMM. :P

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Offline MosherIV

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 10:38:50 am »
Quote
Actually no.
New 4 1/2 digit bench DMM's are available.
I know!
You can get 4.5 digit meters as hand held OR bench meters.
I have 2 hand held 4.5 digit meters.
I know you can get them as bench meters as well.

As far as I know you can ONLY get 5.5 digit meters as bench meters.
The same is true for 6.5, 7.5 and 8.5 meters.

So my original statement was correct
Quote
You can only get 5.5 or more digit meters as bench meters.
 
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Offline Nusa

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 10:46:31 am »
Resolution and accuracy!

You can only get 5.5 or more digit meters as bench meters.
Actually no.
New 4 1/2 digit bench DMM's are available.
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-multimeters/sdm3045x-digital-multimeter/

But if you don't need extreme precision and have adequate vision to read smaller displays, the short answer is that you don't NEED a bench multimeter.
Then you've never seen a good bench DMM display that can be seen from meters away. 
Try that with a HH DMM. :P

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That argument is confusing WANT with NEED. Not that there's anything wrong with WANT, so long as you're willing to PAY.

Besides, some HH's can send output to a computer, at which point a making a big display becomes trivial.
 

Offline MosherIV

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2018, 10:53:32 am »
One more reason comes to mind.

To be able to leave the meter running 24-7 without it
A.  Turning off
B. Battery running flat
 

Offline Old Printer

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2018, 01:55:13 pm »
I think at one point bench meter size was needed for high end performance and features. I built a Heathkit bench DMM in the late 70's and the case was packed with components. I recently saw a UniT bench meter with the cover off. It was 95% empty space, almost everything was on the display board and a small ps near the rear. Visual marketing was the only justification for it's size, but it is probably 2x the meter my old Heathkit was.
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2018, 02:09:04 pm »
One more reason comes to mind.

To be able to leave the meter running 24-7 without it
A.  Turning off
B. Battery running flat
And for thermal stability if it is a very high resolution meter in a controlled environment.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 02:27:05 pm »
You can put other things on top of it.
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Offline Brumby

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2018, 02:28:34 pm »
You can put other things on top of it.
Maybe ... but that is not good Karma.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2018, 02:40:14 pm »
Ok how about you can stack them  :D.
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Offline george4657

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2018, 02:59:27 pm »
In my case I could find it and not have to remember where i left it last.
 
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Online bd139

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2018, 04:19:04 pm »
Ok how about you can stack them  :D.

This is a good point.

My "pile" a couple of months back. There's a frequency counter you can just about see on the top.

 

Offline BillB

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2018, 05:01:59 pm »
So you can be a volt nut.

This!  Besides all the practical reasons already given, how else will you be able to confirm that your calibrator is calibrating and all your other meters are in agreement unless you can have one or more 8.5 digit bench meters to tell you.
 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2018, 05:12:21 pm »
What's the real advantage of them, past and present  ?

They are not battery operated.
Safety devices hinder evolution
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2018, 09:46:47 pm »
Seeing small changes like this:

 

Offline Terry01

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2018, 10:21:50 pm »
So you can be a volt nut.

And.......So you can stack um!


The only 2 answers you should pay any attention to because sooner or later they will be the only 2 things you will consider when you see/""need"" new instruments or equipment......YOU'LL SEE!!   >:D  >:D >:D
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Offline bson

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2018, 01:22:40 am »
What's the real advantage of them, past and present  ?
Never run out of batteries.

Higher precision acquisition, or faster acquisition at lower precision.

Remote SCPI control (including high speed acquisition) - in modern instruments using VXI-11 over ethernet.

In many cases multiplexed inputs that lets you scan many measurement points from a single instrument.

In modern instruments, a larger display for things like tabulated probe hold readings and statistics.

4W measurements.

Stackable.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2018, 01:48:04 am »
Two things that haven't been mentioned:

1) Reading speed. Most handheld DMMs run at a few readings a second, the fastest bench DMMs can run at 100,000 4.5 digit readings a second. If you need to measure fast events more accurately than an oscilloscope can then you need this. It's also a question of throughput. It's no accident that a lot of these high speed DMMs end up in racks on the test equipment for electronics and semiconductor production lines.

2) Accurately triggered readings. Most higher end bench DMMs have a trigger input that you can use to get readings at well defined times related to what your DUT is doing.
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2018, 02:00:43 am »
Quote
Actually no.
New 4 1/2 digit bench DMM's are available.
I know!
You can get 4.5 digit meters as hand held OR bench meters.
I have 2 hand held 4.5 digit meters.
I know you can get them as bench meters as well.

As far as I know you can ONLY get 5.5 digit meters as bench meters.
The same is true for 6.5, 7.5 and 8.5 meters.

So my original statement was correct
Quote
You can only get 5.5 or more digit meters as bench meters.
Your statement was a bit ambivalent as it can be interpreted as "bench meters with less than 5,5 digits don't exist" or "5,5 digits or more are only available in a bench meter".

The BM869S does 5,5 digits in a handheld meter, but only on DC.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 02:10:01 am by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2018, 03:47:46 am »
Resolution and accuracy!

You can only get 5.5 or more digit meters as bench meters.
Actually no.
New 4 1/2 digit bench DMM's are available.
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-multimeters/sdm3045x-digital-multimeter/

But if you don't need extreme precision and have adequate vision to read smaller displays, the short answer is that you don't NEED a bench multimeter.
Then you've never seen a good bench DMM display that can be seen from meters away. 
Try that with a HH DMM. :P

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Did you read the sampling speed speck for that bench multimeter?
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2018, 04:07:30 am »
For me some of the most important reasons have been mentioned often:  rare battery replacement, display size, and harder to misplace.  And one reason that hasn't been mentioned - they are harder to pull off of the bench when you reach for a test point that is just a bit farther than the lead length.  Not that any of the rest of you ever do that, but it matters to me.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2018, 04:41:42 am »
...[snip]... they are harder to pull off of the bench when you reach for a test point that is just a bit farther than the lead length.  Not that any of the rest of you ever do that, but it matters to me.
Or fall over like a handheld can (especially if the stand isn't that wonderful).  :palm: Rather common IME if the meter isn't repositioned so you're not pulling on the leads.  :-/O

Still, I like handhelds for multiple measurements on the bench as they don't take up as much real estate as bench meters (reposition as needed). For disclosure, I've both a bench and handheld DMM's. For the record, I love the VFD on my bench meter, even when compared to an excellent backlit LCD.
 

Offline FriedMule

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2018, 04:50:42 am »
First if you will avoid wrong information, please ignore my answer:-)

I think that one would never need a bench DMM or in other words, a "cheap" Bench DMM is a normal DMM inside a box + some log, statistic function with a price that can give you a fantastic handheld DMM.
Unless you sell your kidney, one leg and your mother, then you can get higher precision, faster update and higher accuracy.

So you will (as many says) only need one if you need to log your data, measure over extremely long time or find it cool to own one.

The rest of the time, you can get handheld DMM that are allmost as good in most cases.
Even if I appear online is it not necessary so, my computer is on 24/7 even if I am not on.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2018, 05:45:57 am »
Resolution and accuracy!

You can only get 5.5 or more digit meters as bench meters.
Actually no.
New 4 1/2 digit bench DMM's are available.
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-multimeters/sdm3045x-digital-multimeter/

But if you don't need extreme precision and have adequate vision to read smaller displays, the short answer is that you don't NEED a bench multimeter.
Then you've never seen a good bench DMM display that can be seen from meters away. 
Try that with a HH DMM. :P

SDM3055

Did you read the sampling speed speck for that bench multimeter?
Yep and I prefer the Middle or Slow setting.
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Offline Dave

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2018, 11:28:45 pm »
Quote
Actually no.
New 4 1/2 digit bench DMM's are available.
I know!
You can get 4.5 digit meters as hand held OR bench meters.
I have 2 hand held 4.5 digit meters.
I know you can get them as bench meters as well.

As far as I know you can ONLY get 5.5 digit meters as bench meters.
The same is true for 6.5, 7.5 and 8.5 meters.

So my original statement was correct
Quote
You can only get 5.5 or more digit meters as bench meters.
Your statement was a bit ambivalent as it can be interpreted as "bench meters with less than 5,5 digits don't exist" or "5,5 digits or more are only available in a bench meter".

The BM869S does 5,5 digits in a handheld meter, but only on DC.
Gossen Metrawatt make a handheld meter that does 6.5 digits. It's called Metrahit 30M, if you're interested.
The precision, though, leave some to be desired.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 11:43:25 pm by Dave »
<fellbuendel> it's arduino, you're not supposed to know anything about what you're doing
<fellbuendel> if you knew, you wouldn't be using it
 
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Offline MosherIV

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2018, 11:35:35 pm »
Quote
Gossen Metrawatt make a handheld meter that does 6.5 digits. It's called Metrahit 30M, if you're interested.
The precision, though, leave some to be desired.

Good to know, thanks for letting me know and not being rude about it  :)
Yes, anything with that kind of precision needs stability, thermal stability which will be near impossible to achieve in a hand held.

 

Offline Dave

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2018, 11:46:47 pm »
Quote
Gossen Metrawatt make a handheld meter that does 6.5 digits. It's called Metrahit 30M, if you're interested.
The precision, though, leave some to be desired.

Good to know, thanks for letting me know and not being rude about it  :)
Yes, anything with that kind of precision needs stability, thermal stability which will be near impossible to achieve in a hand held.
Yup, you want a heated zener reference for that kind of stability and you want to leave it on for an hour or two before measuring something. Not the most battery-friendly requirements, if you ask me.
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Offline AlfBaz

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2018, 12:30:02 am »
Aside from what has already being mentioned there is also increased functionality built in with respect to data such as statistics, filtering, pass/fail test with indication via an output, external triggering and a host of other mathematical  functions.

Most modern bench meters have trend plots as well, which can be zoomed in bringing us greater data storage and the capability to extract it for analysis on a PC
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2018, 12:31:48 am »
Yup, you want a heated zener reference for that kind of stability and you want to leave it on for an hour or two before measuring something. Not the most battery-friendly requirements, if you ask me.

The LM399 datasheet claims that it can be used in battery powered sources, i.e. it can achieve good accuracy shortly after being turned on. Quite how much salt one should take with that claim is another question, but it might offer a fair compromise if one really wanted that degree of temperature stability in a handheld. Of course the battery pack you'd have to lug around for any decent working time might not be exactly handheld.
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Offline james_s

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2018, 03:41:21 am »
It's rare that you *need* a bench meter, although at the very top end you can get more features and better performance in a bench meter, handhelds have caught up with all but the higher end bench meters. 30-40 years ago there was no contest, bench meters then offered much better performance and more features than most handhelds. One significant remaining advantage is they don't run off batteries so you can leave them on for long periods without draining the battery or auto shutoff.

Oh and if you need GPIB or network connectivity for taking automated measurements few if any handhelds offer that.
 

Offline lordvader88Topic starter

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2018, 05:34:54 am »
Soon I'll get a used older 1 , and some day a nice new 1. Right now I only have 1 quality meter, I think a bench meter for be a great idea as my 2nd quality meter
 

Offline AG6QR

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2018, 06:09:56 am »
In addition to the many reasons already mentioned, some school labs use them because bench meters are less likely to escape the lab inside a student's backpack.  The large size is a positive attribute, making the meter more likely to remain on the bench.  I think that's one reason why some low-end bench meters are made with precision and accuracy that is unremarkable compared to similarly-priced handheld meters.  For a home lab, or any reasonably secure workplace lab, this shouldn't be a factor, though.

I think for most individuals, the best bang for the buck is in handheld meters, usually.  But if you need to leave the meter on for extended periods of time without worrying about battery life, or if you find yourself needing precision and accuracy unavailable in a handheld unit, go for a bench unit. 

Or if you really will be using it always on the bench, I think a bench unit is a bit more convenient.  It's just that it's a lot more convenient to use a handheld meter on the bench than it is to use a bench meter in the field.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: When do u need a bench multimeter ?
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2018, 08:31:53 am »
Precision & accuracy aside, one advantage bench meters can have over handhelds on a bench is readability IME (i.e. VFD, 8 segment LED, and the newer color LCD displays). And with the addition of color on some of the newer models, it's even easier to distinguish information (particularly for dual measurement cases).

Other than that however, I still favor handhelds as they don't suck up a lot of bench space. I just have to pay more attention to their position in order to read them. Always compromises...  ::)  :-DD
 


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