Who made the high quality breadboard?

[rdl]

The 3M boards I have are very tight but pin headers are not a problem. For the thin leads on modern through hole parts I pretty much have to use tweezers or needle-nose pliers. I have two of the Radio Shack boards from the 1980s. They were almost certainly relabels of 3M/AP Products. The fit on those is not quite as tight as a newer 3M.

[tooki]

Just to let you know, I ordered two small breadboards from Assembly Specialists (ASP) for $100 based on this post. However, the ASP breadboards turned out to be extremely difficult to insert wires into, and even the jumpers provided with the boards tend to bend if you're not careful. The ASP breadboards won't accept the male pin headers on my breakout boards, which is what I usually work with. In comparison, the old breadboards I have from Radio Shack or surplus stores are much more accommodating.  I know new breadboards can be stiff, but these are way beyond.

Are the 3Com boards just as stiff?

Yeah, it’s normal for them to be very stiff when brand new.

I personally avoid using standard male headers on breadboards simply because they’re at the very upper limit of the allowed wire thickness. But  if you choose to use them, just insert a low-pin-count header into the holes you want to use, just to open them up. Only the first insertion is super tight.

As for component leads: I suggest snipping them on the bias so they have a point. Makes a huge difference in ease.

P.S. 3com hasn’t existed for 13 years. You mean 3M.

[paulca]

I found nice an tight breadboards.  Cheap on Amazon.

The problem I have is when you use a square pin header in a BB hole, the whole row seems to open.  My usually breadboard to breadboard link of choice are the little steel pins with the rubber grip style.  The later always seem to cause issues with poor connections.

The issue is two fold I think.  Partly the header pins are forcing open the entire row of metal clamps.  Also partly the steel pins are no doubt subject to corrosion/oxidisation and being a pretty hard metal doesn't abrade easily (like copper or gold) so doesn't self clean being inserted/removed.

I just can't keep complicated digital circuits running.  Because I had power issues on a set of 2 large breadboards I had begun edging up the system voltage.  Now instead of doing what sane people would do and power the breadboard with 5V and use LDOs and capacitors to supply the 3.3V, I ran the PSU on 3.3V.  I found I only had 3.1V at the end of the project so I upped the voltage to 3.5V.  This is fine, almost everything that takes 3.3V takes 3.5 or even 3.6 right?

Well, it ended up with the PSU running at 3.70V.  I found out the hard way, that no, not all things that take 3.3V take 3.7V and when working with bare modules with a 3v3 input, they mean 3v3!  They have no regulator or limiter onboard.  Lost an Optical I2S module last week and this week through similar impatience and stupidity a 2.4" TFT.

I ordered the PCB for this particular project, but I'd love to not have to go through that again!

Any suggestions?  Do I abandon the steel pin jumper leads?  Do I use only dupont?  Do I just accept things are as they are and make more proto-board interconnects when the breadboard circuits become "more settled"?

On DuPont.  I find the females you get one connection.  Maybe 2.  Then they loosen up and don't make good connections.  You can sometimes squeeze them with pliers and get another few goes, but often you just crush them.  The males on the other hand, if they don't want to go into the breadboard and you push a little too hard, then buckle, bend in the middle and snap off.

I seen a breadboard a long time ago, demo'ed on YouTube, where the "flutes" where individually cut between the holes, so that each individual hole could open the jaws as far as I needed without forcing open it's neighbours.  I can bet 99% of the clone manufacturers just skip that step as it's expensive.  They also probably use horrible cast alloys which oxidize and get filthy.

If it worth givng the breadboard and all the jumpers a bath in iso or something?

[MrAl]

Hi,

I've used Radio Shack solderless plug boards and they were the best i had so far.  They all get old though after a while.
You can get the bottom off for cleaning and possibly rebending.

For real professional work though i've always used a wood plank and stand offs and terminal strips.  For heavy currents you cant use a solderless plugboard (breadboard) anyway.

[tggzzz]

The problem I have is when you use a square pin header in a BB hole, the whole row seems to open.  My usually breadboard to breadboard link of choice are the little steel pins with the rubber grip style.  The later always seem to cause issues with poor connections.

The issue is two fold I think.  Partly the header pins are forcing open the entire row of metal clamps.  Also partly the steel pins are no doubt subject to corrosion/oxidisation and being a pretty hard metal doesn't abrade easily (like copper or gold) so doesn't self clean being inserted/removed.
...
If it worth givng the breadboard and all the jumpers a bath in iso or something?

As I hinted earlier in this thread, I hate solderless breadboards; people always end up spending more time debugging the breadboard than debugging their circuit. But clearly you have found that out too

Fortunately there are better cheaper faster and reliable techniques, a selection of which are shown in https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2020/07/22/prototyping-circuits-easy-cheap-fast-reliable-techniques/ Choose whichever combination of techniques suits you and your project.

[tooki]

I found nice a tight breadboards.  Cheap on Amazon.

Try a 3M/Assembly Specialist, Global Specialties, or other top-quality breadboard.

No cheap breadboard I’ve ever used — and it’s many — has been even remotely as tight as the good ones.

On DuPont.  I find the females you get one connection.  Maybe 2.  Then they loosen up and don't make good connections.  You can sometimes squeeze them with pliers and get another few goes, but often you just crush them.  The males on the other hand, if they don't want to go into the breadboard and you push a little too hard, then buckle, bend in the middle and snap off.

The standard Chinese “DuPont” contacts are brass, and indeed only get a few mating cycles before they loosen.

For test leads and jumpers you want to reuse over and over, you need better quality. The best in this regard is the Amphenol Mini-PV (PV being short for “perpetual virgin”, according to Amphenol, due to their high mating cycles). They’re rated for about 1000 mating cycles, thanks to a separate phosphor bronze leaf spring inside it. They also cost 10-20x as much per contact, but in the long run it saves money, not to mention nerves.

I haven’t had much trouble with male DuPont pins. They should not give you any trouble even on a new, stiff 3M board. When I’ve had trouble inserting those, it turned out it was a remarkably shitty breadboard whose contacts didn’t have enough of a funnel, so inserting anything was nigh on impossible. If you do manage to bend a male DuPont, remember that it’s brass, so bending it back just a few times will cause it to snap.

Upshot is, the cheap stuff ends up costing you more in the long run, and lots of time and stress.

[jonpaul]

Bonjour à tous

Very Fortunately we have 1970s..1990s American made AP, Vero, 3M breadboards and 0.100" perf/ pad per hole boards, sizes to 50 cm.   Found at Hamradio fleas, silent  keys, silicon valley surplus.
5 or 10 wide interlocking strips  are modular and convienent to build a setup.

We have breadboards and prototypes built in 1970s..1990s that still work.

Most Chinese wire, pins, connectors , breadboards and test leads are inférieur material.

Thus we preffer vintage USA products.

Just my experience

Jon

[paulca]

Fortunately there are better cheaper faster and reliable techniques, a selection of which are shown in https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2020/07/22/prototyping-circuits-easy-cheap-fast-reliable-techniques/ Choose whichever combination of techniques suits you and your project.

Hmm.  I've been muddling in my head over breadboard use.

I think they are fine if you are plunking out a few components to get an idea for a circuit using discrete components.  Like, for example, I am playing with very basic boost/buck and mosfets (again!), while the solderless BB doesn't afford a very good buck topology and won't even allow most buck ICs to function properly, it still works for learning the basics with the scope.  With the scope attached it's very obvious when loose connections get involved.

However, when circuits grow and that buck circuit now becomes a "stable part" of the large circuit, it's time to a) replace it with a module, b) move it to a soldered basis (dead/live bug, protoboard etc.).  Things would at least be more reliable having 3 or 4 small sub circuits interconnected on the breadboard.

That brings me to where I am with the projects which are torturing me.  When you want to combine half a dozen modules.  The modules might be a power supply, an MCU and 3 or 4 interface modules like DAC, ADC what not.  Keeping these stable is a nightmare.  At the same time the modules can become expensive.  For example the optical board I cooked cost me £35.  Not going to starve buying a few of those, but they take 3 weeks to deliver and could vanish from stock tomorrow.  So, I whatever I choose to do, needs to be undoable and the modules easy to reuse if required.

Jumping over whatever that technique turns out to be, I get to PCB, where I can get 5 boards.  I can use the first one with female headers and plug modules in.  When I'm happy I can just solder the modules directly into the board.  It's just the turn around time and cost printing PCBs every few weeks is irriating.

So, I'm thinking about buying 3mm plyboard.  I already have plastic standoffs.  I'm going to screw the modules down to the plywood and solder wires point to point between them, directly onto the dupont pin headers.  These simple touch contact solders are instantly undoable with a touch with the soldering iron.  The pin headers should be reusable, at worst they'll need a quick clean up with the iron.  I can even use little bits of protoboard for things like voltage regulators and power distribution boards.  I can solder decoupling caps to the power header pins directly etc.  It should then remain far more stable and when it comes time to do that PCB 15 minutes should unsolder it, the same modules can go into the PCB, any mini-circuits I made, like a buck or power supply module, convert to PCB discretes.

[tggzzz]

Fortunately there are better cheaper faster and reliable techniques, a selection of which are shown in https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2020/07/22/prototyping-circuits-easy-cheap-fast-reliable-techniques/ Choose whichever combination of techniques suits you and your project.

Hmm.  I've been muddling in my head over breadboard use.

I think they are fine if you are plunking out a few components to get an idea for a circuit using discrete components.  Like, for example, I am playing with very basic boost/buck and mosfets (again!), while the solderless BB doesn't afford a very good buck topology and won't even allow most buck ICs to function properly, it still works for learning the basics with the scope.  With the scope attached it's very obvious when loose connections get involved.

However, when circuits grow and that buck circuit now becomes a "stable part" of the large circuit, it's time to a) replace it with a module, b) move it to a soldered basis (dead/live bug, protoboard etc.).  Things would at least be more reliable having 3 or 4 small sub circuits interconnected on the breadboard.

That brings me to where I am with the projects which are torturing me.  When you want to combine half a dozen modules.  The modules might be a power supply, an MCU and 3 or 4 interface modules like DAC, ADC what not.  Keeping these stable is a nightmare.  At the same time the modules can become expensive.  For example the optical board I cooked cost me £35.  Not going to starve buying a few of those, but they take 3 weeks to deliver and could vanish from stock tomorrow.  So, I whatever I choose to do, needs to be undoable and the modules easy to reuse if required.

Jumping over whatever that technique turns out to be, I get to PCB, where I can get 5 boards.  I can use the first one with female headers and plug modules in.  When I'm happy I can just solder the modules directly into the board.  It's just the turn around time and cost printing PCBs every few weeks is irriating.

So, I'm thinking about buying 3mm plyboard.  I already have plastic standoffs.  I'm going to screw the modules down to the plywood and solder wires point to point between them, directly onto the dupont pin headers.  These simple touch contact solders are instantly undoable with a touch with the soldering iron.  The pin headers should be reusable, at worst they'll need a quick clean up with the iron.  I can even use little bits of protoboard for things like voltage regulators and power distribution boards.  I can solder decoupling caps to the power header pins directly etc.  It should then remain far more stable and when it comes time to do that PCB 15 minutes should unsolder it, the same modules can go into the PCB, any mini-circuits I made, like a buck or power supply module, convert to PCB discretes.

Incremental design, implementation and testing is an important - arguably necessary - techinque, and one that demonstrates the problems with solderless PCBs.

Hence I've shown an example in https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2020/07/22/prototyping-circuits-easy-cheap-fast-reliable-techniques/  about 2/3 the way down that page. With that kind of technique you can delay moving to PCBs until it is necessary.

When connecting modules made using any technique, do ensure the ground wiring between modules doesn't introduce problems; make sure you understand the consequences of a wire's 1nH/mm. and why all application notes show and/or stress the importance of ground planes.

Signal integrity with digital circuits is a real issue, whatever the clock frequency/period; FFI understand https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2018/05/08/digital-signal-integrity-and-bandwidth-signals-risetime-is-important-period-is-irrelevant/

[Ground_Loop]

Let me try to actually answer your question.

These:

BusBoard Prototype Systems
Global specialties
3M
Assembly Specialist

[tooki]

Bonjour à tous

Very Fortunately we have 1970s..1990s American made AP, Vero, 3M breadboards and 0.100" perf/ pad per hole boards, sizes to 50 cm.   Found at Hamradio fleas, silent  keys, silicon valley surplus.
5 or 10 wide interlocking strips  are modular and convienent to build a setup.

We have breadboards and prototypes built in 1970s..1990s that still work.

Most Chinese wire, pins, connectors , breadboards and test leads are inférieur material.

Thus we preffer vintage USA products.

Just my experience

I mean, the Chinese can make good product when they want to. Lots of quality products are made there.

With that said I largely concur with your experience. I’ve been little by little remaking my female DuPont leads (like banana to DuPont, micrograbber to DuPont, DuPont to DuPont, etc) which were originally made with Chinese DuPont contacts, with real Mini-PV from Amphenol. Yeah, each contact costs 10-20x as much as the Chinese one, but it lasts about 300x longer without loosening.

I also have been using more Molex KK, since they fit into single-row headers, and their spring design is more durable, even in cheap clones. (But even more so with phosphor bronze originals and clones.)

What I have had very good luck with is Chinese silicone-insulted wire — at least with the supplier I’ve been using. They carry it in thin sizes the western vendors don’t sell, in more colors. So I’ve been using that to make my jumpers and test leads.

I managed to stock up on 3M/Assembly Specialist breadboards bought direct from Assembly Specialist before they raised their prices, so I should be set for a long time.