Why do most companies outsource their offline SMPS?

[tooki]

I don't know the contract legality of Foxlink selling Apple-designed chargers to third parties. Nor do we actually know that they do -- that page may well be nothing more than examples of what they can make, without actually making that specific design available to anyone else. I don't recall ever seeing any non-Apple products ship with that design. (It has occasionally shown up in cheap Chinese clones of Apple chargers for Apple devices, like MacBooks.)

In any event, you're just being argumentative now. Everyone -- other than you -- understands what "off-the-shelf" means, without creating twisted private definitions as you are doing.

[tautech]

All teardowns show and units I have opened have Siglents own PSU's inside.
Never heard or know of any that have failed. Not one.

Do you now for sure they're made by Siglent, rather than another PSU company who put Siglent's name on as part of the customization process?

I found out today they are custom made for Siglent but designed in house.

[coppice]

I don't know the contract legality of Foxlink selling Apple-designed chargers to third parties. Nor do we actually know that they do -- that page may well be nothing more than examples of what they can make, without actually making that specific design available to anyone else.

Its quite common practice for Chinese OEMs to put examples of things they make for other people on their web sites in this way. The reputable ones only do it with the permission of the relevant customers, and they won't sell those products to anyone else.

[derGoldstein]

I don't know the contract legality of Foxlink selling Apple-designed chargers to third parties. Nor do we actually know that they do -- that page may well be nothing more than examples of what they can make, without actually making that specific design available to anyone else. I don't recall ever seeing any non-Apple products ship with that design. (It has occasionally shown up in cheap Chinese clones of Apple chargers for Apple devices, like MacBooks.)

In any event, you're just being argumentative now. Everyone -- other than you -- understands what "off-the-shelf" means, without creating twisted private definitions as you are doing.

Ok you're right I'm kind of just having fun at this point, but you have to admit that this is a special case. They gave that charger a product number, which usually implies that you can order it. Their presentation is vague, they're not explicitly saying "this is an example of what we can do", it looks a lot more a product listing page.

Point taken though, Apple designed at least the exterior of those products. I wasn't intentionally trying to be annoying, just pointing out the oddity.

[wraper]

I just checked my Apple power bricks of that style (some USB, some MacBook) and I found one each from Foxlink, Flextronics, Liteon, Samsung, and Delta.

You still think that's a Foxlink design? LOL

Very likely, yes. Not particularly Apple, but when I disassembled exactly same model phone chargers from different suppliers, they were completely different inside.

[wraper]

Ok you're right I'm kind of just having fun at this point, but you have to admit that this is a special case. They gave that charger a product number, which usually implies that you can order it. Their presentation is vague, they're not explicitly saying "this is an example of what we can do", it looks a lot more a product listing page.

Point taken though, Apple designed at least the exterior of those products. I wasn't intentionally trying to be annoying, just pointing out the oddity.

And if you look on the part numbers, none of them are apple chargers.
EDIT: OK, B9 looks like apple charger.
On the other hand, link says portfolio, not catalog: www.foxlink.com/web/en/portfolio-item/power-adapter/

[wraper]

Do you not understand the difference between off-the-shelf and custom made?

Can I contact foxconn and order a bunch of iphones and ipads without the Apple logo on them? Because I sure can do this with foxlink and their chargers.

That seems to me to be the difference between a company being contracted to manufacture something bespoke for you, and a company adding a product to their publicly-available line because you ordered enough of them.
If it was an exclusive apple design, I wouldn't be able to buy it with my logo on it and then resell it.

No you can't do either. Only rare phone comes with off the shelve adapter, maybe some cheap Chinese brand. It's a different story for, say, routers. Many of them from different manufactures come with the same power brick. Quiet often that power brick is not even rebranded.

[tooki]

I just checked my Apple power bricks of that style (some USB, some MacBook) and I found one each from Foxlink, Flextronics, Liteon, Samsung, and Delta.

You still think that's a Foxlink design? LOL

Very likely, yes. Not particularly Apple, but when I disassembled exactly same model phone chargers from different suppliers, they were completely different inside.

Well yeah. I meant the industrial design (housing, prong attachment, etc) and customer specs. The internals can vary. With Apple, sometimes assemblies are multi-sourced but completely identical between suppliers, sometimes they're different. For sure, Apple is extremely demanding. With chargers specifically, Apple has conducted multiple recalls, over issues where something failed unsafe at a rate so rare that most companies simply wouldn't have done anything. The replacement, in turn, is ultra-reinforced. (For example, the original US iPhone charger, the little tiny cube, could potentially separate open with the prongs left in the socket (as the Chinese clones of those often do today). They recalled them all, and the replacements have the prongs anchored in unbelievably strongly, and the bottom panel is attached even more firmly than before. That mechanical design is clearly coming from within Apple, and not being left up to the supplier. But I guess that as long as Apple is willing to pay extra, they're happy to oblige!

[tooki]

Ok you're right I'm kind of just having fun at this point, but you have to admit that this is a special case. They gave that charger a product number, which usually implies that you can order it. Their presentation is vague, they're not explicitly saying "this is an example of what we can do", it looks a lot more a product listing page.

Point taken though, Apple designed at least the exterior of those products. I wasn't intentionally trying to be annoying, just pointing out the oddity.

And if you look on the part numbers, none of them are apple chargers.
EDIT: OK, B9 looks like apple charger.
On the other hand, link says portfolio, not catalog: www.foxlink.com/web/en/portfolio-item/power-adapter/

Thanks for finding that!! Portfolio, that was the word I was looking for when I replied at 2am! So there we go, it's a portfolio, not a catalog. (And I was on the iPad, where the full URL is normally hidden, and it didn't occur to me to view the URL.)

[tooki]

Ok you're right I'm kind of just having fun at this point, but you have to admit that this is a special case. They gave that charger a product number, which usually implies that you can order it. Their presentation is vague, they're not explicitly saying "this is an example of what we can do", it looks a lot more a product listing page.

Point taken though, Apple designed at least the exterior of those products. I wasn't intentionally trying to be annoying, just pointing out the oddity.

Well, to be honest, to me it looked like a portfolio page, because catalogs of off-the-shelf parts generally have detailed specs shown; this had practically no specs at all. And part numbers are usually much longer than a letter or two. But I do agree that giving them model numbers at all in a portfolio does at least hint at "this is a model you can buy".

OK, now it's trivia time about that charger design:

• It was introduced with the original iPod in 2001, which came with a 12W FireWire charger.
• There have been at least 5 different physical sizes of chargers with this same basic design, all the same thickness so as to accept the same prong attachments ("duckheads") and AC cords. These range from the tiny one we've been discussing (which exists in 12W, 10W, and two distinct versions of 5W, see below), all the way to the comparatively huge original 85W MagSafe charger.
• The first few generations of AirPort Express Wi-Fi routers also used this design.
• The AC port accepts a standard C7 cord, which is hugely handy when traveling, or if you've lost the duckhead. (Now you can get them from Apple, but in the past, the only way to get them was to buy the World Travel Adapter Kit, which includes one of each of all the duckheads for the entire world.)
• The duckhead/cord mount has a mounting stud for stability, but in some chargers, it's plastic, while in others, it's metal and serves as the ground pin. The Apple cords are grounded and use a keyed C7 plug which the chargers with ground pin are adapted for. The chargers without the ground pin won't accept the keyed plug and thus cannot be used with the Apple cord. (I don't know why you'd want to prevent this, I can't think of any downsides to having a ground wire in the cord that's terminating nowhere.)
• The first USB version of these was a 5W model for iPods (in 2004-05, I think), and it was still the size of the FireWire one, probably about twice the total volume of today's. Then came the shrunk-down 5W one, also for iPods. When the iPhone came out, they had to release a new version of it, because the iPod chargers' power was too dirty, and interfered with the touchscreen. Later, a 10W version was added with the original iPad, and eventually, a 12W version with the 3rd gen iPad. The 10W is now shipped only as the included charger when buying a device; only the 12W is sold separately now. I don't think the 5W version is made any more.
• In most markets (maybe all?) the 5W adapter in this design has been replaced with the smaller all-in-one 5W chargers.

[derGoldstein]

There have been at least 5 different physical sizes of chargers with this same basic design, all the same thickness so as to accept the same prong attachments ("duckheads") and AC cords. These range from the tiny one we've been discussing (which exists in 12W, 10W, and two distinct versions of 5W, see below), all the way to the comparatively huge original 85W MagSafe charger.

This also means that they had to make sure that manufacturers kept their designs within tolerances so that the duckheads would be interchangeable.

On a hunch I removed the duckhead that I have and it says "JET Longwell" on it. I know Longwell makes cables and adapters, so is it possible that one company makes the adapter and another makes the duckheads? If that's the case then they'd have to make sure that they not only matched the color of the polymers, but the exact additives, so that the two parts expand/contract together, and also "yellow" at the same rate.

[tooki]

Looks like it -- and that there are multiple suppliers for the duckheads, too! Mine are all from "Well Shin". And the cords are Volex, so yet another company whose manufacturing must match.

As for tolerances... AFAIK, Apple's tolerances are extremely tight. In the iPhone 5 series (and the SE now, I guess), the glass bits are measured down to some tiny fraction of a mm and binned in something like 300 bins, to seamlessly match the machined aluminum which has been similarly measured and binned. :O