Worth it to use linux?

[Monkeh]

The only problem I have found with Linux is wireless cards finding drivers for them can be very hard if not impossible also scanners, the printers work but not scanners

Rather dated, that. Wireless hasn't been a problem for years. Scanners generally aren't much of a problem either.

so the only time I use Linux these days is when I have a problem computer I run Linux on a live CD very often just running the live cd makes the computer decide to work with Windows.

Which makes no sense at all.

[Veliz]

Getting the touchpad to work the same way it does in windows, i find it to be very very hard =(

[joseph.anand]

Getting the touchpad to work the same way it does in windows, i find it to be very very hard =(

I have yet to find a multi-touch touchpad that does not work in Linux. Same with Wacom tablets.

[Monkeh]

Getting the touchpad to work the same way it does in windows, i find it to be very very hard =(

Yes, getting a touchpad to work quite that badly takes a lot of effort.

[firewalker]

The only problem I have found with Linux is wireless cards finding drivers for them can be very hard if not impossible also scanners, the printers work but not scanners, so the only time I use Linux these days is when I have a problem computer I run Linux on a live CD very often just running the live cd makes the computer decide to work with Windows.

I have 7 wireless card at the moment, 4 usb and 3 on laptop/desktop (not selected by me for GNU/Linux use,  two off them brand new 802.11-n). Intel, Crypto, NetGear, LevelOne with various chip sets. All of them works great under GNU/Linux.

http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Devices

The two scanners I own (hp psc 1200, cannon scan LiDE), also work fine (except from the buttons on the cannon).

The only major hardware issue for me is AMD/ATI video cards. PITA.

Don't be afraid of the hardware compatibility. It is really easy to find hardware that works flawlessly under GNU/Linux.

Alexander.

[Veliz]

is there any speed difference between running Vmware Workstation on a linux OS vs windows one? any speed difference?

[T4P]

The only problem I have found with Linux is wireless cards finding drivers for them can be very hard if not impossible also scanners, the printers work but not scanners, so the only time I use Linux these days is when I have a problem computer I run Linux on a live CD very often just running the live cd makes the computer decide to work with Windows.

Or just testing a new computer, works great
I use SLAX though, the modern SLAX weighs in at 200MB

Windows 7 is MORE secure than linux, and more reliable.

If Windows 7 was really more secure than Linux, it would have been running far more webservers than Linux. The only thing Windows 7 is more secure than is probably windows xp.

Since when was Win7 a OS for servers? If it is the performance is appalling! Yes i know Ulti versions have IIS in it but it ain't no windows server 2003!

The only major hardware issue for me is AMD/ATI video cards. PITA.

I was going to try Ubuntu for my hall's desktop but the moment i remembered both AMD and Nvidia doesn't have proper support for linux i gave up the idea
(and no, don't talk the built in intel, i ain't gonna use that one)

is there any speed difference between running Vmware Workstation on a linux OS vs windows one? any speed difference?

Remember that the one you need for speed for should be your main OS and the virtualized OS is the one you do not need so much speed for as virtualization is far from perfect but virtualization always works better on Linux ( that wasn't my line! that was told to me by my dad who manages integration and upgrades, especially in AIX and UNIX )

[SeanB]

My first use of linux was using Redhat 4 on an old computer, barely able to run Win95, and too slow to upgrade to Win98. Worked straight offf, and was usable. Sound was a problem, but the sound card in that machine anyway had been a hit or miss affair with win95, it barely worked with MSDOS, so not a big problem. I could leave a browser window open for weeks with no problems, CD writer actually worked straight off ( By Bye Nero there and then) and it was really responsive, compared to how it was when it had a fresh 95 install. I upgraded all the way to RH6 with it, and only stopped using it when I got a newer faster machine that was being tossed as too slow for Win2000.

biggest change was going from RH to Debian, going from one package manager to another, but nice was that almost all the software I was using would be available in the other variant, or that there was a similar one there that was pretty close, or even better. That was where I got my love of VLC, so much better than any other player, and I am still finding things that it can do, and even nicer is it works on so many platforms.

[madires]

is there any speed difference between running Vmware Workstation on a linux OS vs windows one? any speed difference?

Yes, but you won't notice it if you're just doing average stuff. BTW, the ESXi platform is based on a stripped down linux.

[Simon]

I've never found linux easy because it is not made user friendly, it's written by people who expect you to be as clever as them

[bingo600]

I only boot windows at home , if i need to do PCB layout (haven't gotten to KiCad yet).
So that's prob 1..2 times a month.

I have been using linux occationaly since 90' , Slackware & Yggdrasil.
I have used it (maintained it) at my job since RH6 , DNS,Syslog,NTP,MRTG & other services.
But strangely the company always insisted on desktop/Laptop PC's being windows , even today.


At home I use Ubuntu 10.04 on my laptops & desktop , and still uses Ubuntu 8.04 for the home-server.

I switched server Distro. from CentOS to Ubuntu , due to RHEL/CentOS being behind with many apps that i would like to run on the server (as it's on 24/7).
That was even considering the many new programs on the dag.wieers repos.

My server does a lot of household jobs:

Sendmail + Doveot - aka. Mailserver for the household.
Apache Webserver
DAV calender server for the household (Laptops & iPhones) , i refuse to let Google know my entire life
Subversion server for my programs
Samba & NFS server for the household.
Asterisk PBX for the inhouse SIP Phones

Data aquisition -
Right now fetching & logging GPIB data from 4 voltage refs under burn in , using a HP-3488A as Mux and a HP 34401A as DMM.

Always fetching & logging the temperatures in my summerhouse via VPN. In summerhouse an AVR-Ethernet board with ds18b20's.

...
...
...


But I hate the new Ubuntu (11+) Screen manager , and i'll probably switch to Linux Mint when i need a newer version on the Laptop and Desktop.

I also noticed that Linux Mint has a "rolling release" , just as Debian has. And i must admit that the thought of never having to "Distribution upgrade" my server again , sounds very attractive.

So i'm considering a total switch from Ubuntu to Linux Mint.
Then Mark can join the "I wanna Rule Club" along with Bill and Steve.

- Goodbye Mark & Thanx for all the fish -  It once was a nice Distro.

It becomes more and more rare.
But i'll prob. always have my Desktop being dualboot, and occasionally boot into windows.


/Bingo

Ps: Thunderbird w. lightning and the iPhones syncs beautifully against the shared calendars i have set up on the server , i'm using DAViCal from http://www.davical.org/ (well synaptic has it if you're on 10.04+).

[Simon]

Linux mint comes in two versions, the main one based off ubuntu, suffers the same crap performance and has a new version released with each ubuntu release. The rolling version is based on debian and is for experimenting ONLY. I did not head this advice and installed it on an old pc that would not take the crappy ubuntu version. One fine day it just stopped working, as they had warned. Mint = ubuntu with a new interface. Don't use the rolling release version for anything critical - your server

[SeanB]

Nice thing about Linux is the support online. Most of the time you can get a clue with a careful search. Works for me a lot, and I am by no means an expert.

Agree with the Meh on Ubuntu, probably will on next upgrade ( EOL) will look at Mint or plain vanilla Debian as an upgrade, unless something else looks better.

[bingo600]

Don't use the rolling release version for anything critical - your server

I just read & discovered from the LMDE url , that it's based on Debian testing.
So you are entirely correct ... Don't use that for a Prod-server.
http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php

Thanx for that advise 

But i simply can't agree with the bad performance on Ubuntu. At least until vers. 10.04.
I haven't had any serious trouble , but i have always used the LTS versions aka. (8.04/10.04/----)


The ---- should have been 12.04 , but i'm dropping Ubuntu now.
My PC's aren't Phones , and they can stuff their Phone adapted lightweight screenmanager.

I Just bought a used Nokia N900 , just because it can run Debian.
And i absolutely had to have a phone that could run SSH & VNC 
Thats a cute toy , but i don't even have put a simcard in it. It's much more fun to run SSH.
I'm working on installing WireShark --- That'll be cool


/Bingo

[Simon]

I put ubuntu on my laptop last xmas. was top of the range 6 years ago, runs windows xp pro nicely. It was so slow it was unusable and despite my laptop having a dedicated graphics card and memory the graphical performance was awful as they did not provide a driver for it so it was like tottaly unusable. When i then had to search for the executable file that shuts the laptop down because there was no button or menu to do that I decided that they had truly outperformed microsoft in crap software.

[G7PSK]

Somebody made the reference to to buying a car and expecting to drive it without having first learnt to drive, with Linux it is more like buying your car and find it delivered as a pile of pieces, no tools and a skimpy instruction book written half in a foreign language. Whereas Windows comes ready to drive away in but still has the instructions in chinglese.   

[Simon]

Somebody made the reference to to buying a car and expecting to drive it without having first learnt to drive, with Linux it is more like buying your car and find it delivered as a pile of pieces, no tools and a skimpy instruction book written half in a foreign language. Whereas Windows comes ready to drive away in but still has the instructions in chinglese.

very well put, and the problem is that the manufacturer is so far up it's own arse it will only help if you are as clever as them...... (although some distros have some really helpful people - ubuntu was full of assholes)

[Monkeh]

I put ubuntu on my laptop last xmas. was top of the range 6 years ago, runs windows xp pro nicely. It was so slow it was unusable and despite my laptop having a dedicated graphics card and memory the graphical performance was awful as they did not provide a driver for it so it was like tottaly unusable. When i then had to search for the executable file that shuts the laptop down because there was no button or menu to do that I decided that they had truly outperformed microsoft in crap software.

I assure you, it had a button, you just failed to find it. And the command to shut down is pretty simple, 'shutdown' or 'halt'.

Somebody made the reference to to buying a car and expecting to drive it without having first learnt to drive, with Linux it is more like buying your car and find it delivered as a pile of pieces, no tools and a skimpy instruction book written half in a foreign language. Whereas Windows comes ready to drive away in but still has the instructions in chinglese.

Not really. As far as ready-to-go distros like Ubuntu go, they're far more usable than Windows out of the box. Windows is full of stupid bugs, needs endless patching, numerous additional pieces of software to do anything useful, and half the 'features' turning off so you can actually do things without a helpful little dog to guide you as if you're five years old.

I could have a fresh install of Ubuntu (bear in mind here, I hate Ubuntu and never use it) in a usable state half an hour after burning the DVD. Windows 7? ~20 minutes to install. ~2 hours to patch. Then I can start installing extra software and turning bullshit off.

the problem is that the manufacturer is so far up it's own arse it will only help if you are as clever as them...... (although some distros have some really helpful people - ubuntu was full of assholes)

Most of us aren't like that. We do, however, expect people to help themselves. If we tell people to read documentation, we really do mean it.

[poptones]

Wot? I installed the newest ubuntu just a few weeks ago, and I wiped my userspace which means I didn't have all those nice settings anymore, I essentially had to start over. Here's what I found:

I did NOT have to go find new drivers. For anything. And yes the screen works just fine
I did NOT have to go grab a zip application so I could unzip files, and a rar application, and a pdf application, and...
I did NOT have to install my Brother printer. I did have to unplug the USB connector and replug it. Whoopee.
I did NOT have to install an office application just so I could read the documentation that was included with my desktop.

Unity really sucked on the previous releases but a LOT has been done on this release and it no longer sucks. I quite prefer it.

So far as security... what a laugh. Who said Windows was more secure? Of course it depends on what software you run and how you configure the machine - certainly one can make a vulnerable linux machine or a comparatively secure windows machine - but ootb securityis, I think, no comparison.

BTW there's four days left, if you're using Adobe Reader, to find something else...

http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Google-warns-of-using-Adobe-Reader-particularly-on-Linux-1668153.html

[free_electron]

2) woohoo! Open source!

How much of that source have you
A) actually read ?
B) do you actually understand ?
C) made modifications to because you needed it ?
D) posted it back to the community ?
E) was reabsorbed into an actual release ?

Let me guess .. None ? To all questions ...

That whole open source thing is just a bunch of blabla.
Of the people using linux about 1% actually have read some of the source.
Of that 1% about 1% are capable of actually making meaninful mods to it.
And of those mods maybe 1% makes it into a release ...

The endless linux windows osx discussion is moot.
An operating system is only there to manage files and resources and run applications. In general it should stay out of the way. Just run the os needed for the app you want to use. Multiboot the machine or just get two pc's and a mac. Done.

[poptones]

It makes no difference in the end if a given user ever uses the source code. What DOES matter is the source code is there for those who CAN make use of it. So, while the Windows world waits and hopes for the security fixes they need to arrive on "update Tuesday" or whatever, zero day holes in open source systems are often patched the very same day they become known.

Open source works because it's open. And so far as "get out of the way" - you can't really ask for a more intrusive and confining os than windows.

[Monkeh]

2) woohoo! Open source!

How much of that source have you
A) actually read ?
B) do you actually understand ?
C) made modifications to because you needed it ?
D) posted it back to the community ?
E) was reabsorbed into an actual release ?

Let me guess .. None ? To all questions ...

That whole open source thing is just a bunch of blabla.
Of the people using linux about 1% actually have read some of the source.
Of that 1% about 1% are capable of actually making meaninful mods to it.
And of those mods maybe 1% makes it into a release ...

That's not the point, and you damn well know it.

[asbokid]

BTW there's four days left, if you're using Adobe Reader, to find something else...

http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Google-warns-of-using-Adobe-Reader-particularly-on-Linux-1668153.html

Adobe are a load of plonkers    Their Acrobat Reader has all these vulnerabilities.  Just imagine all the exploits hidden in the Adobe Flash Plugin!

okular is a lovely PDF viewer - super fast - never crashes - open source so officially-planted nasties never reach the codebase - and okular is available for Linux, OS X and even BillyGatesWare.

http://okular.kde.org/

cheers, a

[RCMR]

Speaking to the issue of those who don't care what's going on under the hood...

My wife had a netbook that had Windows on it.

She had a bad brain injury three years ago so struggles with anything technical -- such as a computer.

She was having difficulties with Windows and had on several occasions ended with malware on her computer, despite AV software running.

So I threw Ubuntu on it.  The install was absolutely smooth -- no extra drivers (not even for the WiFi), software or anything else required.

Now she has less problems navigating around and has had not a single malware infection -- that we know of :-)

If she can use a nicely shrinkwrapped version of Linux I can't see how anyone can justifiably say that it's not suitable for end-users or as a Windows replacement for those folk who just want to *use* their computers.

Having said that, she only uses her computer for email and a bit of web-surfing.

[amspire]

If she can use a nicely shrinkwrapped version of Linux I can't see how anyone can justifiably say that it's not suitable for end-users or as a Windows replacement for those folk who just want to *use* their computers.

Having said that, she only uses her computer for email and a bit of web-surfing.

When you start getting past the point of using Firefox, Thunderbird and Open Office, that is when the problems start.

In Windows, when you need to update to the latest version of a program, you download it and install it and it works.

In a Linux distro like Ubuntu, you find that the latest version of a program has not been packaged for your particular release of Ubuntu, and so you are using one several versions old.

It is possible to remove the packaged version of the application, download the latest source files and compile, but then the Ubuntu package manager will no longer do any updates for that package - you forever more have to download source and compile.

As an example, say you need your Ubuntu system to access files in a SVN (Subversion) repository. The current SVN program is at the 16.x release stage, but the version of Ubuntu you are running may only offer a 14.x release of SVN. Once 16.X clients have written to the repository, you cannot use the 14.X SVN clients for useful work any more. You probably could update Ubuntu to the latest release to (hopefully) get a recent package for SVN, but should you be forced to update the whole operating system, just because you want to use SVN?

This is the kind of problem that you live with in Linux distro's like Ubuntu and Fedora and yet the problem does not exist for Windows. I do not know if distro's like Debian handle this problem in a better way. I imaging that the Gentoo distro can get around this as everything is compiled from source, but I am not sure if Gentoo is suitable for the average user.

Richard.