EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: Polossatik on May 18, 2010, 10:12:29 pm

Title: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on May 18, 2010, 10:12:29 pm
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Background:

The hack itself is simply updating the serial number and the model number but does not work anymore on Rigols with firmwares higher than 02.02.SP2, this guide has the files needed to downgrade to 02.02.SP2 , change the serial number and the model number using USB and then to upgrade again.

The downgrade is currently only possible for scopes who come with an firmware up to 00.02.05.02.00
See below , in step 2) is shown how to check your firmware version


Linux users should be able to use  Python with USB,  (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg3245#msg3245).
or  echo to the USB mount (http://www.instructables.com/id/Hacking-the-Rigol-DS1052E-Oscilloscope-with-Linux)


WARNING:
While this hack  was successfully done by a lot of people (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=772.0) there is always something that can go wrong (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1379.0).
It IS possible to brick your Rigol when downgrading / upgrading firmware .
So do this at you own risk.


Other scopes who are know to be hackable:  the Tekway DST1102B  (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.0)

Steps to do:

1) Take the DS1052E out of the box  ;D

Check if everything works as mentioned in chapter 2 of the Service Guide DS1000E.pdf
Yes, reading a manual before everything fails is not a bad idea sometimes...

2) find out your CURRENT firmware version.

To find you hardware revision chose on your scope the "utilities" button, , the lower button until 3/3, choose "system info". This will give the current firmware (not the full version string) and some other info.

example:

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2537/ds1052ever205.png)


Once in this screen press button "ch1" twice, then "ch2" twice then "math" once.
The hardware version will also appear next to "Hardversion". Note if this is 57 (or lower) or 58 .

Be aware !!!!!!! Do NOT press any key except RUN/STOP to exit while in this mode or you can mess up your scope.
Again, do NOT press any key except RUN/STOP to exit while in this mode.


example:
(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1770/ds1052ever205ex.png)

 Do NOT press any key except RUN/STOP to exit while in this mode or you can mess up your scope.

some examples of the firmware versions you might see:

00.02.02.02.00 , shown as 00.02.02 SP2 in the previous screen
00.02.04.00.01 and 00.02.04.00.03 , both shown as 00.02.04 in the previous screen
00.02.04.01.02 , shown as 00.02.04 SP1 in the previous screen
00.02.05.00.00 , shown as 00.02.05 in the previous screen
00.02.05.01.00 and 00.02.05.01.02, both shown as 00.02.05 SP1 in the previous screen


3)a) Get the needed files and save this in a temp folder ( C:\temp ):

* Download a tool like hashcalc (http://www.slavasoft.com/hashcalc/index.htm) to generate MD5 sums of files.

* visa462runtime.exe : the visa462runtime.exe is available here (54Mb)  (http://ftp.ni.com/support/softlib/visa/VISA%20Run-Time%20Engine/4.6.2/win/) , this if for Windows 2000 up to Windows 7, see the readme.html on that website.

* Ultrascope for DS1000E Series.exe : . Make sure you use the "(VISA version)" one if your scope is older and you had this already installed.
When in doubt deinstall and re-install .
I uploaded the one I used to rapidshare here (12Mb) (http://rapidshare.com/files/391131901/Ultrascope_for_DS1000E_Series.exe).
This is the version that came on the cdrom with my scope which says version "00.01.07" in the help - about box.
There is also one on Rigol's website (http://www.rigol.com/templates/T_Support_en/resources.aspx?nodeid=639&contentid=1582)

* DS1052_to_DS1102.zip : the DS1052_to_DS1102.zip  (11Mb) is available here on  Rapidshare  (http://rapidshare.com/files/442622698/DS1052_to_DS1102.zip) or Fileserve  (http://www.fileserve.com/file/CfEMyvv)

* download rigupgr.zip from shafri's post here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727#msg19727).

2)b) Install everything you need on your windows pc.

Do NOT connect the Scope yet

* Install a tool like hashcalc (http://www.slavasoft.com/hashcalc/index.htm) to generate MD5 sums of files

* Run visa462runtime.exe to install the usb driver/ VISA runtime.

* Run Ultrascope for DS1000E Series.exe to install Ultrascope. (This will also install some dll files who are needed for step 5 )

* unzip the DS1052_to_DS1102.zip in c:\temp

* unzip rigupgr.zip in c:\temp

I suggest to use 7zip (http://www.7-zip.org/) it's free and works great.

   After the unzip you should have now these directory's in c:\temp:

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6097/tempfold.png)


You need to reboot your pc now
Do NOT connect the Scope yet


3) Downgrade or upgrade to 00.02.02 SP2 if needed.

Do NOT connect the Scope yet


3)a) your firmware is 00.02.02 SP2 (00.02.02.02.00 ).

(http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/1694/ds1052ever202.png)

go to point 4


3)b) your firmware is LOWER than 00.02.02 SP2 (00.02.02.02.00 ).


If your current firmware is LOWER you need to upgrade to 00.02.02 SP2 to be able to use the USB connection method (point 4),
you should be able to use the "hack" itself without upgrading ( using a RS232 cable) but the USB connection method ( using "VISA" drivers )  will not work .

Easy steps to update the firmware to 00.02.02 SP2:

* empty an usb stick
* check if your usb stick works on the Rigol by plugging it in and saving some screenshots or so - see "to store and recall" in the user manual.
* unplug it again from the scope and plug it in your computer, check files if needed
* delete all files and folders from the usb stick
* copy the DS1000EUpdate.RGL from the "C:\temp\DS1052_to_DS1102\02.02.SP2_original" directory to the empty USB stick, there should be no folder and only only the RGL file on the usb stick
* "eject" the USB stick in Windows Explorer to make sure windows saved everything, plug it in again.

   Double check your USB stick is working on the Rigol and the file is saved properly, seen at least one person bricked his scope due a bad downgrade of the firmware discussion here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg9320#msg9320)
   Check the MD5 sum of the DS1000EUpdate.RGL file on your usb stick.
   the MD5 sum for this file should be 272086b2037231c62446617436544a77

* unplug again
* plug the USB stick in the rigol and follow the Rigol menu "upgrade" instructions

   If the Rigol does not detect the firmware use another USB stick or double check the file used.

* switch off and on the rigol when asked to do so

Check your firmware version of the DS1052E (Utilities button, lower button until 3/3, choose system info) it should list 00.02.02 SP2 .

goto point 4)


3)c) your firmware is HIGHER than 00.02.02 SP2 ((00.02.02.02.00 ) but LOWER than 00.02.05 ( 00.02.05.00.00 )

example:

(http://a.imageshack.us/img135/4097/020400version.png)


you need to use a "patched" 00.02.02 SP2 firmware file in the "02.02.SP2_patched_to_02.04.02" directory

Easy steps to downgrade the firmware to 00.02.02 SP2 using the patched file:

* empty an usb stick
* check if your usb stick works on the rigol by plugging it in and saving some screenshots or so - see "to store and recall" in the user manual.
* unplug it again from the scope and plug it in your computer, check files if needed
* delete all files and folders from the usb stick
* copy the DS1000EUpdate.RGL from the "C:\temp\DS1052_to_DS1102\02.02.SP2_patched_to_02.04.02" directory to the empty USB stick, there should be no folder and only only the RGL file on the usb stick
* "eject" the USB stick in Windows Explorer to make sure windows saved everything, plug it in again.

   Double check your USB stick is working on the Rigol and the file is saved properly, seen at least one person bricked his scope due a bad downgrade of the firmware discussion here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg9320#msg9320)
   check the MD5 sum of the DS1000EUpdate.RGL file on your usb stick.
   the MD5 sum for this file should be 8cd4e61ce6128b55ab18fc83fa756e34

* unplug again
* plug the USB stick in the rigol and follow the Rigol menu "upgrade" instructions

   If the Rigol does not detect the firmware use another USB stick or double check the file used.

* switch off and on the rigol when asked to do so.

Check your firmware version of the DS1052E (Utilities button, lower button until 3/3, choose system info) it should list 00.02.02 SP2 .

(this is not a typo - the file was changed to "appear" to be a higher FW version when checked by the rigol's current firmware, but after the flash it does report as 00.02.02 SP2 - the actual version of the firmware itself is NOT changed since the actual firmware is take from a different part of the file, which is untouched )

goto point 4)


3)c) your firmware is 00.02.05 ( 00.02.05.00.00 ) or 00.02.05 SP1 (00.02.05.01.00)  

example:

(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2537/ds1052ever205.png)


you need to use a "patched" 00.02.02 SP2 firmware file in the "02.02.SP2_patched_to_02.05.01.02" directory

Easy steps to downgrade the firmware to 00.02.02 SP2 using the patched file:

* empty an usb stick
* check if your usb stick works on the rigol by plugging it in and saving some screenshots or so - see "to store and recall" in the user manual.
* unplug it again from the scope and plug it in your computer, check files if needed
* delete all files and folders from the usb stick
* copy the DS1000EUpdate.RGL from the "C:\temp\DS1052_to_DS1102\02.02.SP2_patched_to_02.05.01.02" directory to the empty USB stick, there should be no folder and only only the RGL file on the usb stick
* "eject" the USB stick in Windows Explorer to make sure windows saved everything, plug it in again.

   Double check your USB stick is working on the Rigol and the file is saved properly, seen at least one person bricked his scope due a bad downgrade of the firmware discussion here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg9320#msg9320)
   check the MD5 sum of the DS1000EUpdate.RGL file on your usb stick.
   the MD5 sum for this file should be 7cc0aac2e39f6a677dd0296344e33954

* unplug again
* plug the USB stick in the rigol and follow the Rigol menu "upgrade" instructions

   If the Rigol does not detect the firmware use another USB stick or double check the file used.

* switch off and on the rigol when asked to do so.

Check your firmware version of the DS1052E (Utilities button, lower button until 3/3, choose system info) it should list 00.02.02 SP2 .

(this is not a typo - the file was changed to "appear" to be a higher FW version when checked by the rigol's current firmware, but after the flash it does report as 00.02.02 SP2 - the actual version of the firmware itself is NOT changed since the actual firmware is take from a different part of the file, which is untouched )

goto point 4)


3)d) your firmware is 00.02.05 SP1 ( 00.02.05.01.02 ) or higher

andrewK just provided a firmware see this post (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg30931#msg30931) , which should work for 00.02.05.01.02 scopes.
The steps should be just the same as point 3c)
After the scope is on 02.02 SP1goto point 4)

For 00.02.05.02.00 scopes see this post
 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404)
4) connect the scope to your PC and test the USB connection

the ultrascope step is not needed as such for the "hack" it's simply to see if your usb connection works fine.

Start the DS1052E and connect the scope with an USB cable to your PC, a popup should ask you install drivers, choose "don't search for updated drivers" and let windows install the drivers.
If Windows mentions that the "installed hardware does not function properly" then, disconnect the scope, reboot, connect the scope again.

Start ultrascope, click on the little icon "connect" icon in the upper left corner (right from the floppy) to connect to the scope, in the left panel double click on "virtual console", click on "Run" under the "control" and play around to see if it works.

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3484/rigolultra.png)

If it does then fine, exit the "virtual console" and then ultrascope and go to step 5.
It might be also a good idea to stop and start the scope again - mine sometimes "hangs" when exiting ultrascope.


If it does not work then there is a problem with the usb drivers or maybe you installed an old Ultrascope, in any case do not go further until Ultrascope works on this PC.



5) Change the DS1052E to DS1102E

yes, we are finally there :)

5a) automatically

Forum  user shafri has provided a windows "rigupgr.exe" program  (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727#msg19727) that basically does the steps in point 5b) automatically .

The conditions are still the same, this will ONLY work on 00.02.02 SP2 scopes.

* Connect the rigol with the usb cable to your pc if not yet done

a) start rigupgr.exe from c:\temp\rigupgr (or where you extracted rigupgr.zip)
b) Click "Check Rigol Model & Serial" button, it will show you the *IDN? result and your FW version. (it will automatically fill the new model and serial number for upgrade process)
c) Click "Upgrade Rigol" button to start the upgrade. Wait until it ask you to restart your rigol and click OK.
Dont do anything in between, this might take a while.

(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=3899;image)

restart the scope and goto point 6)

5b) Manually

* Connect the rigol with the usb cable to your pc if not yet done

* Start demoIDN.exe from the "C:\temp\DS1052_to_DS1102\usbtool" folder

* select the scope in the first "Visa" drop down list (there should only be one line), then select "*IDN?" in the bottom drop down list and hit "send and read"

It will give:

Code: [Select]
Rigol Technologies,DS1052E,DS1ED888888888,00.02.02.02.00
Instead of  888888888 you will see your serial number, copy paste the serial number into notepad, you need it later.

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/60/rigolstart.png)

The Scope MUST have 00.02.02.02.00 as firmware to do the hack.

* In notepad prepare 2 lines:

Code: [Select]
:INFO:MODEL DS1102E
:INFO:SERIAL DS1EB888888888

where 888888888 is your serial number, note the difference between the original DS1ED and the new DS1EB.

* Next in the bottom select box of demoIDN.exe copy paste:

Code: [Select]
:INFO:MODEL DS1102E
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/42/rigolmodel.png)

and click on the send and read button - no output is given, that's normal

* After that , in the bottom select box of demoIDN.exe copy paste:

Code: [Select]
:INFO:SERIAL DS1EB888888888
where 888888888 is your serial number you prepared before, make sure you use DS1EB not DS1ED

(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5240/rigolserial.png)

and click on the send and read button - no output is given, that's normal

Now exit demoIDN.exe and switch off the rigol and then switch it on again.

Start demoIDN.exe again, select the scope in the first drop down list, select *IDN? in the bottom and hit send and read

(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/903/rigolend.png)

it will give

Code: [Select]
Rigol Technologies,DS1102E,DS1EB888888888,00.02.02.02.00
where 888888888 is your serial number

and your DS1052E scope is now a DS1102E....

got step 6


6) Update your firmware after the change.

Get your  hardware version, that is the "Hardversion" found in step 2 of the guide.

HardWare version "57" (or lower) scopes MAY stay on 00.02.02.02.00 but there no reason why you should NOT go to 00.02.04.01.02 (00.02.04 SP1)

HardWare version "58" scopes NEED to go to 00.02.04.01.02 (00.02.04 SP1)  other wise there are calibration issues

HardWare version "59" scopes are reported to exist , not clear yet what Firmware version the NEED, suggest to try with 00.02.04 SP1 first and report  from page 33 onwards (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.480)

There seams currently no reason to go to 00.02.05.01.00 for HardWare version "58" (or lower) scopes , some people even reported issues with 00.02.05.01.00 firwmare that do not occur in 00.02.04 SP1, like this one (http://hardcoreforensics.com/category/test-equipment)


The 00.02.04.01.02 (00.02.04 SP1) firmware can be found in  the "C:\temp\DS1052_to_DS1102\02.04 SP1_original" directory.
 
Again, make sure your is file correct on the USB stick, you can use a tool like hashcalc (http://www.slavasoft.com/hashcalc/index.htm) to check the MD5 sum of the DS1000EUpdate.RGL 00.02.04.01.02 (00.02.04 SP1) update file on your usb stick.
The MD5 sum for this 00.02.04.01.02 (00.02.04 SP1)  DS1000EUpdate.RGL file should be bcf73565352391935f3a9651d30776ee

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2794/ds1102ever204.png)
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3152/ds1102ever204ex.png)


If you really want you can go to 00.02.05.01.00 ( 02.05 SP1 )

The 00.02.05.01.00 ( 02.05 SP1 ) firmware can be found in the "C:\temp\DS1052_to_DS1102\02.05.01.00_original" directory .
The MD5 sum for this 00.02.05.01.00 ( 02.05 SP1 ) DS1000EUpdate.RGL file should be 839651c74a948cea1d8cccc21af9fc8a



7) After you are on your final firmware , let the scope run for 30 minutes to warm up and perform a self calibration as the very last step.

And do not forget to delete the *.RGL file of the usb stick after doing an update of the firmware :)

If you want even more MHz , help out in the  DS1052E Up to 150Mhz (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1495.0) Thread :)

OR you want less noisy fan:  Rigol 1052e Fan Replacement  (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1945.0)
enjoy

Footnotes:

* To change an DS1052D (the model with Logic Analyser) into an 1102D the steps should be just the same, the serial number however should be changed from DS1ECxxxxxx (1052D model) to DS1EAxxxxxx (1102D model) See here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=935.0).
* The pfd's in attached rigolpdf.zip are the DS1000E_programming guide.pdf from dec 2009, User’s Guide DS1000E.pdf from July 2009 and Service Guide DS1000E.pdf from may 2009.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: EEVblog on May 18, 2010, 11:09:26 pm
Excellent guide, thanks for the effort in sharing.

Dave.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: redek on May 19, 2010, 10:12:33 am
Thanks for the guide. I'm now less confused about going through the usb port.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: EstebanM on May 20, 2010, 06:58:29 am
Thank`s .... ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on May 20, 2010, 09:49:38 pm
Thank you, great work!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on May 25, 2010, 03:51:32 am
Some people reported that the Ultrascope from the rigol website did not work (I did not tested this) ,
uploaded the Ultrascope for DS1000E Series.exe I used to rapidshare and adapted the guide.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: avrfreaks on May 25, 2010, 04:03:04 pm
Works ok on Windows 7 and Windows Vista x86, however x64 bit environment does not work well. It sometimes times out when programming,
I did use visa460runtime.exe for both tests.

Thanks....
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on May 26, 2010, 09:37:34 am
which usb driver did you use?
"visa441runtime" USB-driver or the newer visa460runtime.exe ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: johnr on May 27, 2010, 09:14:37 pm
I just received my 00.02.04 based DS1052E.  Anyone follow this procedure on a recent unit and test to see if it is actually running at 100 Mhz?  In other words, verify that besides firmware change in recent unuts there is no corresponding hardware change?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on May 27, 2010, 11:05:01 pm
If you mean like compare the rise time like Dave did, not that I'm aware of.
You need a generator to do that ( see here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=588.0) ) that not everybody has laying around.
But feel free :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ninja on May 28, 2010, 04:25:42 am
Thanks for this hack! it's awesome!
It worked on win7 i used visa460runtime
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: squeezee on June 01, 2010, 01:31:19 pm
Thanks for the guide, just successfully upgraded my rigol over USB with Windows 7 x64.

I used the NIVISA 4.60 runtime downloaded from their website.

Also instead of copying the mfco42d.dll into your system directory, you just need to have it in the same folder as demoIDN.exe for it to work.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on June 01, 2010, 07:05:09 pm
thank you for the feedback, I have adapted the guide a bit.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ednspace on June 03, 2010, 11:56:09 pm
Thanks for the great Guide!!!
I did it, nervous all the while but couldn't live with myself if I didn't try,
of course if it had failed, I couldn't have lived with myself either.
I had access to a generator and another real bonified 1102E 100mHz scope so I took some photos.
Generator is an Agilent 33250A 80mHz



Thanks again for everybodys help on this
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on June 04, 2010, 12:49:05 am
Welcome (and stick around... ;) )

thankx for those pictures, it clearly shows that the hack improves the scope, even for "lower" frequency's...
Maybe I'm talking silly here, but does these pictures not indicate your modded 1052 is actually a tiny little bit better than the "real" 1102?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ednspace on June 04, 2010, 02:36:36 am
Welcome (and stick around... ;) )

thankx for those pictures, it clearly shows that the hack improves the scope, even for "lower" frequency's...
Maybe I'm talking silly here, but does these pictures not indicate your modded 1052 is actually a tiny little bit better than the "real" 1102?

Could just be that the reading was moving around a bit, I pushed run stop, so I may have skued the data slightly in favor of the modded scope. ;)  For all practical purposes I think they are about the same.

I just went and measured the Agilent Signal Generator against a TDS 3052B TEK 500 mHz scope and it was showing close to the same, 4.6 ns Rise, 4.4 ns fall.  So I dug up an old HP8082A Pulse Generator.  Square wave at 20 mHZ. 

Wow what a difference, 1.04 ns Rise, 990 ps Fall on the 500 mHz scope. (Note to self, how do they do that, anyway?)

On the modded Rigol 3.04 ns rise, 3.20 ns fall.  So sweet! 

As I increased the frequency up to around 40 mHz the Rigol hung in there but only ever showed 3.00 ns Rise and 3.00 ns Fall, no waiver.  Seems to be the top end.  Still not completly sure how to convert this to bandwidth. 

Is it as simple as 0.35/RiseTime = Bandwidth?

I work at a University in case you are wondering where I am getting access to all the toys.
I did read the rise time thread, so all measurments were straight 50 ohm cable the niceset I could find and 50 ohm terminated at the scope.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on June 04, 2010, 04:03:36 am
So I dug up an old HP8082A Pulse Generator.  Square wave at 20 mHZ.  

Wow what a difference, 1.04 ns Rise, 990 ps Fall on the 500 mHz scope. (Note to self, how do they do that, anyway?)

This might give some insight :)
https://gamma.triumf.ca/tigress/Vendors/HP/HP%208082A%20Operating%20and%20Service%20Manual.pdf/at_download/file
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on June 04, 2010, 04:19:57 am
thankx for those pictures, it clearly shows that the hack improves the scope, even for "lower" frequency's...
How is this a lower frequency? You need at least 70MHz bandwidth to produce a 5ns rising/falling edge, so that's well beyond the specified bandwidth of the DS1052E.

Wow what a difference, 1.04 ns Rise, 990 ps Fall on the 500 mHz scope. (Note to self, how do they do that, anyway?)
Just really fast RF transistors I think. If it's old, you can probably find a service manual with full schematics on the Agilent website.

Is it as simple as 0.35/RiseTime = Bandwidth?
If the filter has a one-pole guassian role-off, then yes. Since it oversamples at least 10 times, I don't think they've gone through the trouble of designing a filter with a sharper roll-off, but I'm not sure if it's specified to be exactly guassian either. I would expect it to be pretty close.

If you want to be sure, I'm sure you can find a leveled signal generator from 100kHz to 150MHz or so at that university. The point at which the displayed amplitude is just 1/sqrt(2) of the real amplitude is the upper bandwidth limit, so you set the generator to some low frequency that's comfortably within the bandwidth (eg. 100kHz), note the amplitude, and without changing the level, adjust the frequency upwards until you reach the -3dB point. If you plot amplitude against frequency, you get the scope's frequency response. I think the flatness specs for the Agilent 33250A are pretty good, you might be able to use that up to 80MHz, to verify that you have at least that much bandwidth. If your signal source isn't leveled, you could calibrate it by noting the amplitude at each frequency with a higher bandwidth scope (eg. that TDS3052) or power meter.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on June 04, 2010, 04:32:41 am
thankx for those pictures, it clearly shows that the hack improves the scope, even for "lower" frequency's...
How is this a lower frequency? You need at least 70MHz bandwidth to produce a 5ns rising/falling edge, so that's well beyond the specified bandwidth of the DS1052E.

I'm talking about the frequency of the input signal, not the bandwidth ...  something that is often confused by people who are new to this stuff.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ednspace on June 04, 2010, 05:24:48 am
So I dug up an old HP8082A Pulse Generator.  Square wave at 20 mHZ.  

Wow what a difference, 1.04 ns Rise, 990 ps Fall on the 500 mHz scope. (Note to self, how do they do that, anyway?)

This might give some insight :)
https://gamma.triumf.ca/tigress/Vendors/HP/HP%208082A%20Operating%20and%20Service%20Manual.pdf/at_download/file


Thanks for that, its a gem, may take a bit decipher though.  In the mean time I found these interesting circuits.
http://www.i9t.net/fast-pulse/fast-pulse.html
http://www.holmea.demon.co.uk/Avalanche/Avalanche.htm

Both referencing the original article Jim Williams, LT App Note 47
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on June 04, 2010, 09:34:50 pm
[I'm talking about the frequency of the input signal, not the bandwidth ...  something that is often confused by people who are new to this stuff.
This is why the rule-of-thumb used to be that your scope bandwidth should be about 5x your signals frequency to get a reasonable representation. And that was in the time of analog scopes when you just wanted a picture, before the time of measurements and analyzing stored waveforms point for point. To get accurate measurements or zoom in you need even more bandwidth. Agilent has a nice appnote with a table with the ratio of scope rise time to signal rise time and measurement error.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ednspace on June 05, 2010, 05:16:49 am
If you want to be sure, I'm sure you can find a leveled signal generator from 100kHz to 150MHz or so at that university. The point at which the displayed amplitude is just 1/sqrt(2) of the real amplitude is the upper bandwidth limit, so you set the generator to some low frequency that's comfortably within the bandwidth (eg. 100kHz), note the amplitude, and without changing the level, adjust the frequency upwards until you reach the -3dB point. If you plot amplitude against frequency, you get the scope's frequency response. I think the flatness specs for the Agilent 33250A are pretty good, you might be able to use that up to 80MHz, to verify that you have at least that much bandwidth. If your signal source isn't leveled, you could calibrate it by noting the amplitude at each frequency with a higher bandwidth scope (eg. that TDS3052) or power meter.

Thanks for the bandwidth measuring suggestion, here is what I came up with.

Started with a sine wave 1V peak to peak at 100kHz then raised the frequency until amplitude rolled off to .707 volts.
Since I had access to some other scopes I hooked them up and measured as well.
In all instances the End point is where the frequency causes the voltage to cross the .707 volt line.
The Rigols are at the bottom.

Rhode & Schwarz 9kHz-2.089GHz RF Generator
Test Signal 1 volt Peak to Peak sine wave

TEK TDS744A 500MHz 2GS/S
Start:100kHz    End:550MHz

TEK TDS2002 60MHz 1GS/S
Start:100kHz    End:71MHz

TEK TDS420A 200MHz 100MS/S
Start:100kHz    End:281MHz
Notes:This could be equivalent time sampling, not sure. Bandwidth seems large.

TEK TDS3052B 500MHZ 5GS/S
Start:100kHz    End:475MHz
Notes: Driver error?  This scope is kind of tricky for me. Used 16X average.

Rigol DS1102E 100MHz 1GS/S
Start:100kHz    End:117MHz
Notes:Used 16X average. Real Time.  Equivalent seems to extend bandwidth.  I still have to research the difference between the two.

Rigol DS1052E 50MHz 1GS/S (This is the modded scope)
Start:100kHz    End:123MHz
Notes:Used 16X average. Real Time.  Equivalent seems to extend bandwidth.
Yes really slightly better then the real DS1102E I went back and forth several times.

All tests done with the generator warmed up, highest quality 50ohm cable I could find, terminated at the scope.  See above lash up photo.
Scopes were a cold start, auto set, then adjusted to give the largest amplitude display possible.  In some cases I turned on averaging.  Keep in mind that I did this all pretty quickly and am a novice at driving some of these scopes, treat everything as ballpark just to get an idea of whats going on.
enjoy_
ED
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: idris on June 06, 2010, 09:40:34 pm
Just confirming this technique worked for me on Windows 7 64-bit. I used the NIVISA 4.60 runtime linked by the OP without issue.

Note that my scope shipped with the 2.02 SP2 firmware.

Thanks for your efforts! Much appreciated.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on June 06, 2010, 11:35:21 pm
Most excellent work in confirming the freq. response of the 1052E and making comparisons.

To finalize the 1052E hack:

Has it passed its internal Function Check?

Has it passed its self calibration?


Although I've been following the mod thread with relish, I haven't' seen anyone test the scope's other capabilities beyond frequency response and rise time, as Mark0 discusses here.  Sounds like you have the gear and the baseline equipment to make a detailed analysis:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=3653;topic=30.135;num_replies=651;sesc=5b002620404842d3df2a0666d8a7db0a







If you want to be sure, I'm sure you can find a leveled signal generator from 100kHz to 150MHz or so at that university. The point at which the displayed amplitude is just 1/sqrt(2) of the real amplitude is the upper bandwidth limit, so you set the generator to some low frequency that's comfortably within the bandwidth (eg. 100kHz), note the amplitude, and without changing the level, adjust the frequency upwards until you reach the -3dB point. If you plot amplitude against frequency, you get the scope's frequency response. I think the flatness specs for the Agilent 33250A are pretty good, you might be able to use that up to 80MHz, to verify that you have at least that much bandwidth. If your signal source isn't leveled, you could calibrate it by noting the amplitude at each frequency with a higher bandwidth scope (eg. that TDS3052) or power meter.

Thanks for the bandwidth measuring suggestion, here is what I came up with.

Started with a sine wave 1V peak to peak at 100kHz then raised the frequency until amplitude rolled off to .707 volts.
Since I had access to some other scopes I hooked them up and measured as well.
In all instances the End point is where the frequency causes the voltage to cross the .707 volt line.
The Rigols are at the bottom.

Rhode & Schwarz 9kHz-2.089GHz RF Generator
Test Signal 1 volt Peak to Peak sine wave

TEK TDS744A 500MHz 2GS/S
Start:100kHz    End:550MHz

TEK TDS2002 60MHz 1GS/S
Start:100kHz    End:71MHz

TEK TDS420A 200MHz 100MS/S
Start:100kHz    End:281MHz
Notes:This could be equivalent time sampling, not sure. Bandwidth seems large.

TEK TDS3052B 500MHZ 5GS/S
Start:100kHz    End:475MHz
Notes: Driver error?  This scope is kind of tricky for me. Used 16X average.

Rigol DS1102E 100MHz 1GS/S
Start:100kHz    End:117MHz
Notes:Used 16X average. Real Time.  Equivalent seems to extend bandwidth.  I still have to research the difference between the two.

Rigol DS1052E 50MHz 1GS/S (This is the modded scope)
Start:100kHz    End:123MHz
Notes:Used 16X average. Real Time.  Equivalent seems to extend bandwidth.
Yes really slightly better then the real DS1102E I went back and forth several times.

All tests done with the generator warmed up, highest quality 50ohm cable I could find, terminated at the scope.  See above lash up photo.
Scopes were a cold start, auto set, then adjusted to give the largest amplitude display possible.  In some cases I turned on averaging.  Keep in mind that I did this all pretty quickly and am a novice at driving some of these scopes, treat everything as ballpark just to get an idea of whats going on.
enjoy_
ED
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ednspace on June 08, 2010, 06:17:28 am
Most excellent work in confirming the freq. response of the 1052E and making comparisons.

To finalize the 1052E hack:

Has it passed its internal Function Check?

Has it passed its self calibration?


Although I've been following the mod thread with relish, I haven't' seen anyone test the scope's other capabilities beyond frequency response and rise time, as Mark0 discusses here.  Sounds like you have the gear and the baseline equipment to make a detailed analysis:



If I am able I would be happy to run some more tests and give a report back to the group.  Any suggestions for tests to attempt.  I am pretty satisfied with what I have seen so far.  I went through self calibration after the mod, no problems.  Which internal function tests are you refering to?  Frequency and voltage were matching the other scopes, and the function generator when doing the earlier testing.

ED
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on June 08, 2010, 12:45:46 pm
Hi Ed,

The only test left suggested by the manual is insure its set to Factory default settings before executing a frequency check on both channels, in the manual it simply uses the calibration output; see page 1-6.

I presume its a good way to see if it will load setups from memory [ you can have 10 custom ones] properly after the mod. 



Most excellent work in confirming the freq. response of the 1052E and making comparisons.

To finalize the 1052E hack:

Has it passed its internal Function Check?

Has it passed its self calibration?


Although I've been following the mod thread with relish, I haven't' seen anyone test the scope's other capabilities beyond frequency response and rise time, as Mark0 discusses here.  Sounds like you have the gear and the baseline equipment to make a detailed analysis:



If I am able I would be happy to run some more tests and give a report back to the group.  Any suggestions for tests to attempt.  I am pretty satisfied with what I have seen so far.  I went through self calibration after the mod, no problems.  Which internal function tests are you refering to?  Frequency and voltage were matching the other scopes, and the function generator when doing the earlier testing.

ED
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: PeterG on June 08, 2010, 06:14:19 pm
OK, i am sold on the DS1052E Scope. However, does anyone know where to get one in Sydney (Parramatta area)?

Regards
Peter
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on June 09, 2010, 12:56:54 am
Interesting Rigol history story:

http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Outsmarting_local_competition_wins_global_recognition-article-sbsrc01_jun2009.html.aspx

And a current ad reflecting their official new pricing.



Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on June 09, 2010, 02:38:38 am
Interesting Rigol history story:
http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Outsmarting_local_competition_wins_global_recognition-article-sbsrc01_jun2009.html.aspx

Nice, also explains why the hardware is indeed the same, the less different parts needed the better they can negotiate on the price...

40.000 in 2007 - I wonder how many they make now (under rigol and other brands)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on June 09, 2010, 06:06:29 am
I'm not sure if the true original was not Rigol, but its has perked my interest to look out for scopes that look or work like the Rigol.  Only the 'take it apart' part can see if they are true clones.  Consider from the 1052E, we have Instek, LeCroy WaveAce series, the Uni-T 2025b, Tenma 72-8395 [ Uni-trend is a OEM for Tenma brand, I believe] Atten 1102CA [ see google for lawsuit] and Siglent [ Atten OEM andsounds like Agilent  ::)?].

See also: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=632.0

(http://www.tequipment.net/ProductImages/Instek/GDS-1102A.jpg)

(http://tequipment.net/ProductImages/LeCroy/LeCroy_WaveAce_front.jpg)

(http://www.rigoloscilloscope.com/images/uploads/DS1052E.jpg)

(http://www.pce-iberica.es/medidor-detalles-tecnicos/images/osciloscopio-pce-ut-2025b.jpg)

(http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/productimages/s4/72-8395.jpg)

(http://img1.ybzhan.cn/2/20091123/633945902299327500.jpg)

(http://www.siglent.com/en/upload/201011843612237.jpg)

Interesting Rigol history story:
http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Outsmarting_local_competition_wins_global_recognition-article-sbsrc01_jun2009.html.aspx

Nice, also explains why the hardware is indeed the same, the less different parts needed the better they can negotiate on the price...

40.000 in 2007 - I wonder how many they make now (under rigol and other brands)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ednspace on June 13, 2010, 08:59:46 am
Hi Ed,

The only test left suggested by the manual is insure its set to Factory default settings before executing a frequency check on both channels, in the manual it simply uses the calibration output; see page 1-6.

I presume its a good way to see if it will load setups from memory [ you can have 10 custom ones] properly after the mod. 


Hello saturation,
Finally got a chance to check this.  Factory settings load, I am able to see the calibration signal 1kHz 3V on both channels.  Everything seems to work fine.  I was able to save and load my own presets in some of the 10 memory positions.  It was easy to go back and forth between these and the factory default settings.  It all seems stable!  I am happy!

Thanks again for all the help and great tutorial
_enjoy
ED
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on June 13, 2010, 10:06:26 am
You're welcome, I'm glad it came out right, makes me more likely to try the mod ;)

More interesting tidbits:

If you watch the LeCroy tutorials, its nearly identical to the Rigol functions, and more importantly, the GUI concept.  Notably absent is the HELP button and the WaveAce can store more custom profiles:

http://www.tequipment.net/LeCroyWaveAceVideos.html

For archiving on this thread: the Agilent Series 3000, now discontinued, the Rigol ODM devices that made is famous

http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-33863.536905607.00&cc=US&lc=eng

Interestingly Rigol considers Agilent's selection to re-badge one of their model lines in 2005 as a milestone in their history.

http://www.rigol.com/templates/T_About_en/index.aspx?nodeid=653

Hi Ed,

The only test left suggested by the manual is insure its set to Factory default settings before executing a frequency check on both channels, in the manual it simply uses the calibration output; see page 1-6.

I presume its a good way to see if it will load setups from memory [ you can have 10 custom ones] properly after the mod.


Hello saturation,
Finally got a chance to check this.  Factory settings load, I am able to see the calibration signal 1kHz 3V on both channels.  Everything seems to work fine.  I was able to save and load my own presets in some of the 10 memory positions.  It was easy to go back and forth between these and the factory default settings.  It all seems stable!  I am happy!

Thanks again for all the help and great tutorial
_enjoy
ED
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on June 14, 2010, 07:53:51 am
nice to see the thread is useful , the zip file is about 200 times downloaded, so there are a lot of DS1052E who became a DS1102E  ;D
Title: // Thank you! plus a couple of questions //
Post by: RickTrelles on June 15, 2010, 09:22:05 pm
Thank you for all that help, polossatik.

I'm new to scopes and just bought a Rigol DS1052.

I have a couple of initial questions if you don't mind.

My unit reports it has "software version 00.02.04".
How you know yours is 00.02.04.01?

Why do you want to stay with firmware 00.02.02, shouldn't 02.04
have improvements and isn't it supposed to keep the 100MHz hack?

Have you actually returned your unit to 00.02.04 (or 00.02.04.01)?

Thank you again,

Rick
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: idris on June 15, 2010, 10:14:15 pm
I haven't seen anyone who has the release notes about what improvements, if any, there are with 2.04.

The "*IDN?" command gives the full version number, which can be different from the version reported through the menus.

Also, I believe the 2.04 firmware floating around the net is actually different from the 2.04(.01) that's currently being loaded at the factory, so then technically you won't be returning the scope to the previous firmware. But noone seems to know what the functional differences are anyway. Personally I didn't do the upgrade to 2.04 because I don't know what I'd get out of it, in exchange for taking on the inherent risks of flashing the firmware.
Title: Re: // Thank you! plus a couple of questions //
Post by: Polossatik on June 16, 2010, 01:18:42 am
Thank you for all that help, polossatik.

you're welcome

I'm new to scopes and just bought a Rigol DS1052.

I have a couple of initial questions if you don't mind.

congrats and not at all


My unit reports it has "software version 00.02.04".
How you know yours is 00.02.04.01?

see above post :)

Why do you want to stay with firmware 00.02.02, shouldn't 02.04
have improvements and isn't it supposed to keep the 100MHz hack?

Have you actually returned your unit to 00.02.04 (or 00.02.04.01)?

I have a strong "if it ain't broken , don't fix it" approach to life..
Seen the 02.02 works and tit's not clear what the other fixes ,  I stay on 02.02 until someone (or I) finds a bug in 02.02 that bugs me or there is a clear list of things that are fixed in 02.04 and the "real one" is somewhere available.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xoom on June 16, 2010, 04:50:31 am
Hi,
just got mine scope this evening.. :)
after half hour of checking if everything is all right.. tryed this hack :)
and gues what?  ;)

im joining you all of 100MHz scope  ;D
(very happy)

ordered from DX at 5/19/2010
and have problem to sending to my country (Lithuania) then i have to change address to other. Thanks fly to Aramandas (A?i? tau) then he send to me from UK and today (6/15/2010) i finally have it after month of stress ;D

And Thanks to polossatik for guide :)
And of course Dave for inspiration :)

Best regards,
xoom
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on June 16, 2010, 05:21:09 am
Congratulations xoom, was firmware version did you make the conversion from?



Hi,
just got mine scope this evening.. :)
after half hour of checking if everything is all right.. tryed this hack :)
and gues what?  ;)

im joining you all of 100MHz scope  ;D
(very happy)

ordered from DX at 5/19/2010
and have problem to sending to my country (Lithuania) then i have to change address to other. Thanks fly to Aramandas (A?i? tau) then he send to me from UK and today (6/15/2010) i finally have it after month of stress ;D

And Thanks to polossatik for guide :)
And of course Dave for inspiration :)

Best regards,
xoom
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xoom on June 16, 2010, 05:44:44 am
it was 02.04 but i didn't try, just downgraded to 02.02 :)
Title: Worked on Windows 7, 64 bit.
Post by: tanjent on June 22, 2010, 06:54:14 am
Just reporting in that the USB-based hack has worked from Win7-x64 with my brand-new scope, purchased on June 12th throgh Amazon.com from "Riko Instruments". Scope calibration date is April 24th, 2010.

Firmware was 2.04, downgraded to 2.02 SP2, installed visa441runtime.exe and "Ultrascope_for_DS1000E_Series.exe" (downloaded from the link in this thread), followed the steps exactly and everything worked just fine.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: MtnMike on July 02, 2010, 01:33:38 pm
I bought 2 of the DS1052E's.  Figure the price was right, and if I need a 4 channel scope, I can just trigger the second one off the first, and if one breaks, I still have one.  

Anyway, I just did the USB mod.  Followed the guide step by step, and it worked.  Great.

So, of course I had to see what it does.  So I hooked up a Tek TDS2022B 200Mhz 2GS/s, Rigol DS1052E with 100Mhz mod, and a regular DS1052E at 50Mhz.  I hooked them all up at the same time to a HP 8116A Function Generator with a 15.46MHz(based on the Tek TDS measurement) Square Wave(unterminated).  The results are in the pictures.  Of course the 200Mhz looks the best, and the 100MHz looks pretty good, and the 50MHz doesn't capture the waveform like the other 2.  

As for calibration issues every one is worried about, the modded unit measurements of rise time and Vpp are very close, while the unmodded 50Mhz unit has the worst measurements, compared to the Tek TDS2022B.  I'm sure this is because of the lack of bandwidth, as the measurement can't be as accurate as the other 2.  

So there you have it.  I'm happy.  Thanks again to the original poster with the dummy guide!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on July 03, 2010, 02:33:37 am
Thanks, MM.  Every successful hack is further proof it can be done right and it results in higher bandwidth.  But the hack alone isn't as helpful as showing the specs are truly improved, and that the basic functionality has not been lost, as shown by a number of folks on this thread.

I bought 2 of the DS1052E's.  Figure the price was right, and if I need a 4 channel scope, I can just trigger the second one off the first, and if one breaks, I still have one.  
...
So there you have it.  I'm happy.  Thanks again to the original poster with the dummy guide!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: wd5gnr on July 05, 2010, 12:33:32 am
If you watch the LeCroy tutorials, its nearly identical to the Rigol functions, and more importantly, the GUI concept.  Notably absent is the HELP button and the WaveAce can store more custom profiles:


Just for the record the DS1x52E has help also. You just have to hold down the button you want help on for a few seconds. However, if you updated to 2.04 firmware off the Internet, it has no help text (probably no localized strings). So when you do this it will pause a bit (trying to load the help) the first time and after that, nothing until you reboot. I understand those who got "factory" 2.04 have help and the 2.02 firmware you can get on the Internet also has it. I have not seen a 2.04 with help "in the wild."

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on July 05, 2010, 01:08:49 am
THANKS wd5gnr, I really wasn't aware of it, its not in the manual!  But it is on websites.

Anyone who has done the mod, is the HELP contents still there?



If you watch the LeCroy tutorials, its nearly identical to the Rigol functions, and more importantly, the GUI concept.  Notably absent is the HELP button and the WaveAce can store more custom profiles:


Just for the record the DS1x52E has help also. You just have to hold down the button you want help on for a few seconds. However, if you updated to 2.04 firmware off the Internet, it has no help text (probably no localized strings). So when you do this it will pause a bit (trying to load the help) the first time and after that, nothing until you reboot. I understand those who got "factory" 2.04 have help and the 2.02 firmware you can get on the Internet also has it. I have not seen a 2.04 with help "in the wild."


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: MtnMike on July 06, 2010, 03:14:40 am
THANKS wd5gnr, I really wasn't aware of it, its not in the manual!  But it is on websites.

Anyone who has done the mod, is the HELP contents still there?



If you watch the LeCroy tutorials, its nearly identical to the Rigol functions, and more importantly, the GUI concept.  Notably absent is the HELP button and the WaveAce can store more custom profiles:


Just for the record the DS1x52E has help also. You just have to hold down the button you want help on for a few seconds. However, if you updated to 2.04 firmware off the Internet, it has no help text (probably no localized strings). So when you do this it will pause a bit (trying to load the help) the first time and after that, nothing until you reboot. I understand those who got "factory" 2.04 have help and the 2.02 firmware you can get on the Internet also has it. I have not seen a 2.04 with help "in the wild."



Yes, the help menu is still there after the mod, in version 2.02.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: wd5gnr on July 06, 2010, 04:35:54 am
Yeah the mod doesn't make the help go away. It is the "internet" version of the 2.04 firmware.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on July 06, 2010, 04:46:31 am
Its not a critical loss, but it would have been good to know it was there when I was learning how to use it  >:(.  So I read the manual, but that didn't help  :'(.  Thanks for the tip, it can still aid as a reminder  :D.

Yeah the mod doesn't make the help go away. It is the "internet" version of the 2.04 firmware.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on July 06, 2010, 06:13:46 am
Yeah the mod doesn't make the help go away. It is the "internet" version of the 2.04 firmware.


Yep, it seems you are right. I just loaded a 00.02.04 version of the FW that I got directly from Rigol NA. The scope saw it as an upgrade and I loaded it in and the help files are now working again. If anybodys interested I'll attach the file here or you can get it directly from Rigol in Ohio.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: wd5gnr on July 06, 2010, 06:55:41 am
I'd be interested... is there a link or did you have to ask for it? Is there any indication of what is "new" in the 2.04 other than the mod lock out?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on July 06, 2010, 10:37:52 am
I'd be interested... is there a link or did you have to ask for it? Is there any indication of what is "new" in the 2.04 other than the mod lock out?

I sent an email to one of the Apps Engineers, Houssam, and he sent it to me. I'll attach it to a post tonite or tommorow for you. No indication of whats new or different other than the upgrade cripple.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on July 06, 2010, 11:02:24 am
OK, here goes it.Using the RS232 port and the *IDN command I found that the firmware is now  00.02.04.00.03 . Thanks for reminding me, rf-loop. This file is EXACTLY whats in my USB stick so it should work as advertised. No unzipping needed. Just copy the file into your stick and it should upgrade fine.



Raw file removed.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: RickTrelles on July 06, 2010, 06:30:34 pm
OK, here goes it.Using the RS232 port and the *IDN command I found that the firmware is now  00.02.04.00.03 . Thanks for reminding me, rf-loop. This file is EXACTLY whats in my USB stick so it should work as advertised. No unzipping needed. Just copy the file into your stick and it should upgrade fine.

And... of course, you did the upgrade to this fw after the mod and everything OK. Right?

Rick
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Psi on July 06, 2010, 08:41:15 pm
Just did this to my rigol.

All worked fine, just followed the guide on the first page
-Downgraded firmware
-Ran demoIDN.exe and changed settings

Now it's DS1102E  :D

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on July 07, 2010, 11:45:15 am
OK, here goes it.Using the RS232 port and the *IDN command I found that the firmware is now  00.02.04.00.03 . Thanks for reminding me, rf-loop. This file is EXACTLY whats in my USB stick so it should work as advertised. No unzipping needed. Just copy the file into your stick and it should upgrade fine.

And... of course, you did the upgrade to this fw after the mod and everything OK. Right?

Rick

Yep! Sure did, I originally had the 2.04.01 and it locked out the upgrade. Then downgraded to the 2.02 FW to do the mod. No problem, 100 Mhz and 2 Ns timebase. Then installed  the 2.04 FW that is floating around the internet that has no help files.Still 100 Mhz.,then installed the 00.03 version I got from Rigol and the help files are there and the scope is still 100 Mhz. and 2Ns timebase.

Rick, I don't blame you for being a little apprehensive. Its only 400 bucks out the window if you trash it. I know I don't have that much money to burn.

My question now is; If the 2.04.01 FW is installed will that kill the upgrade? I'm not going to find that out, LOL!!!!! I'm done...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: RickTrelles on July 07, 2010, 02:39:54 pm
Thanks a lot, beerhunter. Do you realize you have rounded up this hack? Now one can buy a scope with fw 02.04.00.01, change to 02.02, make the mod and then upgrade the fw to 02.04.00.03, better even than what came new? Thank you.

Rick
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Marvin on July 08, 2010, 05:39:39 am
Thaks beerhunter! Updated my hacked DS1052E 02.02 SP2 to 02.04.00.03 with your file. Everything seems to be working.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: logictom on July 08, 2010, 08:28:48 am
+1 Thanks and successful update ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on July 08, 2010, 06:23:18 pm
OK, here goes it.Using the RS232 port and the *IDN command I found that the firmware is now  00.02.04.00.03 . Thanks for reminding me, rf-loop. This file is EXACTLY whats in my USB stick so it should work as advertised. No unzipping needed. Just copy the file into your stick and it should upgrade fine.

thankx a lot for sharing this,
Just fyi: in general it's better a provide files like this in a .zip file, if for one or other reason the download corrupts the the file then when using a zip file the unpacking will fail with a "crc error".
When using a plain file any corruption will not be noticed until you try to flash your Rigol, which is something you don't want.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on July 08, 2010, 08:43:28 pm
Uh oh its already happened.  Beerhunter, favor, can you repost the attachment of your firmware but ZIP or RAR it to insure the CRC is correct.  Also, to help others, delete the unzip or unrar'd version.

I just download the same file from this site and compared it against the same file I downloaded 2 days ago, it fails a file compare with a CRC error, so something is corrupted and I can't tell which, the original or the new download.

So, downloaders beware.


OK, here goes it.Using the RS232 port and the *IDN command I found that the firmware is now  00.02.04.00.03 . Thanks for reminding me, rf-loop. This file is EXACTLY whats in my USB stick so it should work as advertised. No unzipping needed. Just copy the file into your stick and it should upgrade fine.

thankx a lot for sharing this,
Just fyi: in general it's better a provide files like this in a .zip file, if for one or other reason the download corrupts the the file then when using a zip file the unpacking will fail with a "crc error".
When using a plain file any corruption will not be noticed until you try to flash your Rigol, which is something you don't want.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: DJPhil on July 08, 2010, 10:58:56 pm
It might not be a bad idea for someone with a known good copy to post the MD5 checksum. I use hashcalc (http://www.slavasoft.com/hashcalc/index.htm) for this sort of thing, it's fast, free, and simple to use. It might be overkill, but sometimes you just have to be sure.

Here's what I have from the file I downloaded a while back. Not sure if it's useful, but here it is in case. I've attached it for comparison.

Zip name = DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02.zip
  DS1000DUpdate.RGL
    MD5 = 16d645a8ac4b9cf0d5b11cc3e3a62536
    CRC32 = cd27dd67
  DS1000EUpdate.RGL
    MD5 = 272086b2037231c62446617436544a77
    CRC32 = a3370f0e

Hope that helps. :)

Edit: Just a grammar error.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on July 08, 2010, 11:48:36 pm
I have added the MD5 sums to the guide for the 00.02.02.02.00 firmware in my DS1052E to DS1102E.zip and also downloaded, tested (updated my hacked rigol) and zipped the 00.02.04.00.03 file (attached here).

The MD5 sum for this 00.02.04.00.03 DS1000EUpdate.RGL file in the DS1000E2043Update.zip ( and DS1000E(D)_2.04_Firmware.rar ) should be 52e5744307a4944db9f7d64f30874982  

edit: Just a little info to avoid confusion later on, DS1000E2043Update.zip and DS1000E(D)_2.04_Firmware.rar contain both exactly the same 00.02.04.00.03 firmware file for the Rigol DS1052E/DS1102E
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on July 09, 2010, 07:17:41 am
OK, I don't understand how it got corrupted sitting in the server but here is the zip file I got from Rigol.



Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on July 09, 2010, 07:59:01 am
Thanks beerhunter, it may not be anything you sent; files still have to travel from this server to me through the net, and anything can happen; it could have even been my desktop that saved it wrong; but always good to check firmware with a CRC as a mistake can be ver hard to undo. 
OK, I don't understand how it got corrupted sitting in the server but here is the zip file I got from Rigol.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on July 09, 2010, 08:26:03 am

Thanks beerhunter, it may not be anything you sent; files still have to travel from this server to me through the net, and anything can happen; it could have even been my desktop that saved it wrong; but always good to check firmware with a CRC as a mistake can be very hard to undo. 


Oh, OK. I had no idea that a "raw" file like this can have errors happen just by downloading etc. I thought that any digital transmission will have a bit check or CRC error check. By the couple of folks that responded with one of Dave's patented "Thumbs Up" that the raw file I posted works fine in their scope I thought all is well.

Please, by all means fix the zip file so its ready to download safely and post it so I can delete the original raw file or should I just do it now? I absolutely do not want to have anybodys scope bricked in the slightest.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on July 09, 2010, 06:22:34 pm
Oh, OK. I had no idea that a "raw" file like this can have errors happen just by downloading etc. I thought that any digital transmission will have a bit check or CRC error check. By the couple of folks that responded with one of Dave's patented "Thumbs Up" that the raw file I posted works fine in their scope I thought all is well.

IT should not happen, but it happens :)

Please, by all means fix the zip file so its ready to download safely and post it so I can delete the original raw file or should I just do it now? I absolutely do not want to have anybodys scope bricked in the slightest.

Please remove the "raw DS1000EUpdate.RGL file" from your original post.
I added already a zip file with the 00.02.04.00.03  to my post above and added this to the guide on page 1

I will leave them up like this, if people want the update for other Rigol models they then can download your  DS1000E(D)_2.04_Firmware.rar file
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on July 10, 2010, 08:18:47 pm
correct some typo's (thankx  rf-loop ! ) and added some extra information why 00.02.02 SP2 is used.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on July 10, 2010, 10:16:59 pm
Thanks for the continued good work, p!

correct some typo's (thankx  rf-loop ! ) and added some extra information why 00.02.02 SP2 is used.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jongs75 on July 12, 2010, 03:35:51 am
Thank you polossatik for the clear instruction !

Another happy owner of a 100 MHz oscilloscope.

Bought it last month, firmware 00.02.04, calibrated in june.

I've made the hack on windows 7, 32 bit, visa460runtime.

Sorin.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on July 12, 2010, 05:02:06 am
I just checked the CRC values of the file I got from Rigol after unzipping, The CRC value of the file in my USB stick, the zipped file that was downloaded here and then unzipped, and my "raw" file that was posted for downloading and they all had a CRC of 35E30206. So the raw file should be OK for all that used it.

I used Hashcalc to check my USB stick so I think its a good idea to all that used my file to check the file in your USB stick for a correct CRC value.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on July 12, 2010, 08:58:13 am
I used Hashcalc to check my USB stick so I think its a good idea to all that used my file to check the file in your USB stick for a correct CRC value.

It might not be a bad idea, but if the upgrade itself went fine then i doubt anyone would see a difference/problem with their file.

A CRC32 is not "100% safe", meaning it will NOT detect ALL corruptions but it will a pretty good indication if stuff went wrong, even with an MD5 there is a (remote) probability a corrupt download gives the same value, however in practice MD5 is about as safe as you need to be and CRC is also a pretty decent "generic warning" system for file corruptions (that stuff is used by zip files - any zip/unzip store/uses a CRC check on the zip file contents when compressed/extracted  ).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on July 12, 2010, 09:17:14 am

"I used Hashcalc to check my USB stick so I think its a good idea to all that used my file to check the file in your USB stick for a correct CRC value."


"It might not be a bad idea, but if the upgrade itself went fine then i doubt anyone would see a difference/problem with their file."

Saturation" had a little bit of a "Freakout" and I'm not sure if it was warranted or not but he certainly did shoot the flares up, LOL!!!!!

"A CRC32 is not "100% safe", meaning it will NOT detect ALL corruptions but it will a pretty good indication if stuff went wrong, even with an MD5 there is a (remote) probability a corrupt download gives the same value, however in practice MD5 is about as safe as you need to be and CRC is also a pretty decent "generic warning" system for file corruptions (that stuff is used by zip files - any zip/unzip store/uses a CRC check on the zip file contents when compressed/extracted  )."



All good info and I certainly learned a lot here, Thanks so much.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sonicj on August 06, 2010, 04:09:04 pm
updata successed!

thanx!
-sj
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gnorf on August 07, 2010, 09:46:41 pm
THNX

works fine with DS1052D (DS1EC...) > DS1102D (DS1EA...)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ArtRock on August 09, 2010, 11:55:36 am
"Updata Successed" on:  08/08/10!!  Thanks for the great tutorial!!   :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ArtRock on August 09, 2010, 12:39:04 pm
Some Info on my "Updata Successed" (08/08/10):

             
       - I ordered the scope from Amazon.com from Riko Instruments (08/04/10).  Firmware 00.02.04.01.00 was originally installed.
 
        - I downgraded the firmware to perform the hack and upgraded to 00.02.04.00.03 once the hack was completed.
     
        - I used hashcalc to verify the MD5 sum before downgrading/upgrading the firmware
           
        - I used Windows Vista 32-bit

Thanks for polossatik for the easy to follow guide and links to the necessary files!  Also, thank you beerhunter for the "updata" firmware! ;)

       
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on August 09, 2010, 05:34:33 pm
Hello ArtRock,
anytime, glad to hear it worked fine,
I would say welcome and please do stick around ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tnt on August 10, 2010, 06:00:31 pm
I'm having trouble changing the firmware.

I tried putting the file on 4 different usb sticks (of 4 different capacity and 3 different manufacturer), and tried formatting them with several different options (FAT16/FAT32 partition or not, ....) and nothing works.

When I plug it, I see "USB Device install successful" and I can read and save waveform to each stick and in the 'device manager', I can see the DS1000EUpdate.RGL file but it never propose me to update ...

The scope has just been bought on DX and has 00.02.04.00.03 installed (from *IDN?)

Anyone has an idea ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tnt on August 11, 2010, 09:16:22 am
To all those who have installed 00.02.04.00.03 :
does the scope let you do a downgrade from this version ? (no need to actually do it, just put an old 02.02 update file on a stick, plug it and see if it asks you or not).

I think the latest factory installed 00.02.04.00.03 just don't let you downgrade at all.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on August 11, 2010, 09:51:45 am
Uhh Ohh! I just tried to do the same thing on mine and I got the same response. It looks like the .03 FW ignores any FW lower in rev number. ???
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jongs75 on August 11, 2010, 03:54:25 pm
What's wrong with the 00.02.02 SP2 firmware ?

Why bother upgrading to 00.02.04.00.03 ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on August 11, 2010, 05:47:35 pm
What's wrong with the 00.02.02 SP2 firmware ?

Why bother upgrading to 00.02.04.00.03 ?

the problem is not so much with the people who upgrade *after* the hack, the problem is with the people who receive the scope with 00.02.04.00.03 from the factory.

added warning to the first page.

Rigol cannot disable Upgrades as such, so the only way out here is to find a way to "patch" the 00.02.02 SP2 firmware file to report itself as for example "00.02.10 SP2" , flash that "patched" firmware, do the hack and then , if wanted/needed flash back to 00.02.04.00.03 (the  00.02.02 SP2 firmware allows "dowgrades")
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tnt on August 11, 2010, 06:05:18 pm
Yup tried that yesterday and it worked. I hacked the 02.02.02.00 fw image to report itself as 02.04.01.00 and then the scope "updated" just fine.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on August 11, 2010, 06:19:31 pm
Yup tried that yesterday and it worked. I hacked the 02.02.02.00 fw image to report itself as 02.04.01.00 and then the scope "updated" just fine.

I assume you simply changed the 02.02.02.00  text string at the beginning of the file with a hex editor?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tnt on August 11, 2010, 06:28:05 pm
yes
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on August 11, 2010, 06:47:43 pm
yes

thankx,
above info should be enough for "power" users, but I'll update the guide and provide the needed files later on and then update here if it's done.
so if you're not sure and on the new firmware, wait a bit...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on August 11, 2010, 10:47:18 pm
Guide updated, new flow, firmware files and hopefully not confusing.
I tested all provided files on my rigol, I would appriciate feedback.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Cheshyr on August 12, 2010, 07:30:18 am
I downgraded to 2.02, and now my system boots to a White Screen.  Is it bricked?  Is there a way to recover?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on August 12, 2010, 08:53:36 am
Yup tried that yesterday and it worked. I hacked the 02.02.02.00 fw image to report itself as 02.04.01.00 and then the scope "updated" just fine.

I assume you simply changed the 02.02.02.00  text string at the beginning of the file with a hex editor?

You guys are good, really good. Thank You.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on August 12, 2010, 09:04:18 am
I downgraded to 2.02, and now my system boots to a White Screen.  Is it bricked?  Is there a way to recover?

You did come from what firmware and what file did you use to downgrade?
Also did you checked the MD5 of the file on your usb stick?
Is this is a new bought DS1052E?

I did test all the firmware files in the DS1052_to_DS1102.zip on my DS1052E , so
 or you did use other files,
 or the was a problem with the file on the usb disk
 or there is a new hardware version that does not like the 02.02.02 fw ...

I do not know how to "force" the Rigol to load a fw image without using the menu...

edit: for good mesure I downloaded the zip file and doublechecked the MD5 sums, they are correct so the files itself should be fine.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Cheshyr on August 12, 2010, 01:55:52 pm
I came upon the hack from another site, and used the files they had in their forum.  I do not recall the site unfortunately.  I did not check the MD5.  This was a new DS1052E scope, calibrated June 5th, 2010.  I was able to talk to it via serial before the flash.

I just checked the MD5 on the file I used, and it matches the MD5 of the file in the packet in this thread.

I unzipped, copied to a flash drive, inserted the flash drive, it asked if I wanted to update, I said yes, about a minute later it finished, I reboot, dead.  The screen is white, and the buttons randomly cycle if I reboot quickly.  The system no longer responds to serial or usb.

So, yeah.  Did something dangerous without doing my due diligence, etc.  Not the fault of your file-pack.  The information on this hack is pretty spread out, and I was just checking if anyone had found a way to recover from a bad flash.  One of the other threads around here mentioned people were looking at the JTAG and SPI lines, and I didn't know if there had been progress, or if there was another way around this.

edit: clarified my process a bit, and verified the md5.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on August 12, 2010, 06:14:58 pm
ok,
than you used most likely the files from the DS1000_D,E_Upd_v2_02_02.zip from rcgroups (or a copy of those),
it also means your scope was 00.02.04.00.01 or lower otherwise it would not have asked to update :)

I'm afraid I cannot help you out, all I can suggest for the moment is to indeed check the other thread (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.690) and see if you have something to add.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: (*steve*) on August 12, 2010, 08:06:56 pm
Uhh Ohh! I just tried to do the same thing on mine and I got the same response. It looks like the .03 FW ignores any FW lower in rev number. ???

I've been trying to register for a while.  I compared several versions of the firmware, and it was pretty clear that there is no checksum in it.

I note that someone has already suggested modifying the firmware :-)

Does anyone know what the processor is inside these devices?  The firmware isn't encrypted and so it shouldn't be too hard to have a go at dissasembly and from there (with a couple of firmware versions in hand) patch them to allow the old version number hack -- or perhaps to simply default to the DS1102E.

Naturally this could easily brick the device and it would be prudent to have a method (is there a jtag interface?) of de-bricking them if we break them.

An even easier hack might be to get the current firmware and change where it looks for 1052E / 1102E to swap those numbers around.  That means no need to update model number and serial number.  I have searched for this (not particularly thoroughly) in the firmware without luck.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on August 12, 2010, 08:53:47 pm

Does anyone know what the processor is inside these devices?  The firmware isn't encrypted and so it shouldn't be too hard to have a go at dissasembly and from there (with a couple of firmware versions in hand) patch them to allow the old version number hack -- or perhaps to simply default to the DS1102E.

There is a lot of info in the http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.0 thread and on rcgroups http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663958 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1222045

it's there but buried, no summary I can directly link to.

Naturally this could easily brick the device and it would be prudent to have a method (is there a jtag interface?) of de-bricking them if we break them.

See http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.660

the current "mod" is a simple text string adaption, it looks like the firware flasher does not look at the actual firmware itself.
I also noted that the 02.04 fw is taking much more place compared to the 02.02 (by checking the .RGL file )
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Charlietuna on August 19, 2010, 03:01:29 pm
Hi All!

Thank you all so much for your knowledge. I miraculously  ;D was able to convert my 02.04.01 scope to the DS1102E. My heart was in my mouth when I did it. I did it over several days, using HASHCALC and trying to follow the directions precisely. I do think it's a good ideal to get ULTRASCOPE working with your scope before doing the firmware change. That's what I did. I had a little difficulty with the windows drivers. At first it thought the scope was a camera. I was much more comfortable knowing that I hadn't done any modification to the scope.

Next step is to learn more about the scope. I didn't upgrade back to the 04 firmware. I didn't want to push my luck.

Thank again!

Steve
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tokuro on September 04, 2010, 02:22:46 pm
i just got one and was able to "upgrade"  Nice.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: BarsMonster on September 06, 2010, 01:13:31 pm
Yesterday I've finally got my new & shiny Rigol DS1052E from China (375$), and thanks to this guide I upgraded it to 1102 without any problems (W7 64bit).
Great guide :-)

Now it shows 3.1ns risetime on my square wave generator :-)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Andrei on September 12, 2010, 01:27:22 am
Hey guys, I just got the DS1052E scope in the mail 2 days ago. When I go to the model screen  my software version seems to be 2.04 SP1.

Is this a new version or did I just not read the instructions well? Has anyone tried downgrading using this version ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on September 12, 2010, 11:17:46 pm
Hey guys, I just got the DS1052E scope in the mail 2 days ago. When I go to the model screen  my software version seems to be 2.04 SP1.

Is this a new version or did I just not read the instructions well? Has anyone tried downgrading using this version ?

AFAIK this has not been seen before, what does a *IDN? gives ? (you can install the usb drivers and use the tool to get the firmware version without risk, it will not change anything on the scope)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Andrei on September 13, 2010, 05:32:55 am
I did the read from the *IDN? the reply was as follows

Rigol Technologies,DS1052E,DS1ED123######,00.02.04.01.02
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on September 13, 2010, 09:36:59 am
I did the read from the *IDN? the reply was as follows

Rigol Technologies,DS1052E,DS1ED123######,00.02.04.01.02

well, that's indeed not seen before, the latest I'm aware of is the 00.02.04.00.03

The next step would be to use the firmware in the 02.02.SP2_patched_to_02.04.02 and see if the scope asks to do an upgrade.

If Rigol did not added extra checks on the upgrade system the "modded" 02.02.02.00 files should work and trigger an "upgrade" (actually a downgrade but the scope thinks it's a upgrade...) prompt on the scope (which you then still should be able to cancel by simply turning off the scope before pressing the button to do the actual upgrade )

And as always, I cannot promise nothing bad will happen to the scope, it's not very likely, but possible, that there is a hardware change so that your newer 1052E does not work with the old 02.02.02.00 firmware. that's your call to see if you take the risk  :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: willfarnaby on September 18, 2010, 06:43:46 am
+1 successul (everything appears to work fine) in applying the mod, including final upgrade to the latest firmware. Thanks all.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on September 21, 2010, 09:23:05 am
Just received my Rigol today, it too had firmware 2.04 SP1. I took the plunge and followed the guide with no issues.

glad it went ok and thank you for letting it know !
I have updated the guide.

System info lists DS1102E and software version 00.02.04. I'm guessing I'll have to wait for the 2.04 SP1 firmware to popup? It doesn't seem available.
no, so far the 02.04 SP1 firmware has not popped up yet as a file set.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Skappy on September 22, 2010, 05:32:52 pm
Hi,
please apologize my poor english but i'm french...
I'm sorry to disturb you but i'm about to buy a RIGOL DS1052E oscillo with a 02.04.00.03 firmware version.
Will the upgrade to the DS1102E will be possible ?
I can't no find information concerning this firmware version ...
Thnak you very much for your help.
Have a nice day
Fabrice


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on September 22, 2010, 05:39:43 pm
Hi,
please apologize my poor english but i'm french...
I'm sorry to disturb you but i'm about to buy a RIGOL DS1052E oscillo with a 02.04.00.03 firmware version.
Will the upgrade to the DS1102E will be possible ?
I can't no find information concerning this firmware version ...
Thnak you very much for your help.
Have a nice day
Fabrice


simply follow the guide on page 1 and choose in point 3 the "3)c) your firmware is HIGHER than 00.02.02 SP2." section , it mentions explicit 00.02.04.00.03
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Skappy on September 22, 2010, 09:37:21 pm
Hi,
please apologize my poor english but i'm french...
I'm sorry to disturb you but i'm about to buy a RIGOL DS1052E oscillo with a 02.04.00.03 firmware version.
Will the upgrade to the DS1102E will be possible ?
I can't no find information concerning this firmware version ...
Thnak you very much for your help.
Have a nice day
Fabrice


simply follow the guide on page 1 and choose in point 3 the "3)c) your firmware is HIGHER than 00.02.02 SP2." section , it mentions explicit 00.02.04.00.03


Thank you very much for that, I will read it carefully now. Many thanks again
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yyao on September 25, 2010, 11:35:52 am
Hey guys, I just got the DS1052E scope in the mail 2 days ago. When I go to the model screen  my software version seems to be 2.04 SP1.

Is this a new version or did I just not read the instructions well? Has anyone tried downgrading using this version ?

Yep same here. I just got my scope 2 days ago with the same firmware. Couldn't downgrade it to 2.02 SP2 though. The scope refuses to downgrade to any revision that has a lower version number, but this is easy to get around. All you have to do is load the 2.02 firmware into a hex editor and change the apparent version number to something higher than 2.04.01. Once you downgrade to 2.02, you can easily apply the fix that has been mentioned in Dave's video and upgrade to 2.04. Ingenious, eh?

Like Professor Collins said, the root word of engineering is ingenuity. Come to think of it, he was my civil engineering professor! And he is an Aussie too! He hated to be called professor though, because he thought it was too academic and engineers needed to consider real life problems. Oh boy, its funny, the things that you remember...

The problem now is, after scope self calibration, the scope is showing incredible amounts of ADC mismatch which manifests itself as noise on a trace. The mismatch is quite significant too, almost an entire vertical div.  I am convinced that this is ADC mismatch because:

Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is there any way to undo the calibration? I'm going to try to revert my changes to see if there's something more to it.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yyao on September 25, 2010, 01:09:41 pm
I would like to correct myself. I said:

  • It only happens when the combined sampling frequency is higher than 100Msps

I meant to say:

OK, so I went back and downgraded the firmware and model number. After a few scary moments with blank screens, I rebooted the machine and redid a self calibration. The same problem happens even on the old firmware and with the machine functioning as a DS1052E.

Perhaps there is something special with the 02.04 SP1 firmware with self calibration and maybe Rigol made a slight hardware modification in these new units. Perhaps I just have a unit with a bad self calibration function. Either way, I'm too scared to run self calibration my friend's unit.

Until I figure this out, I'll have a 50MHz 100Msps/ch dual channel scope. Oh well...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 25, 2010, 07:53:43 pm
@yyao: are we in the same fate here? can you post pictures of the problem you are talking about? mine here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1222045 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1222045)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on September 25, 2010, 08:19:22 pm
Sounds like is the same problem i have too, lets hope Drieg comes out with his solution soon.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2010, 12:37:17 am
Sounds like is the same problem i have too, lets hope Drieg comes out with his solution soon.
Should we pay him when he got the fix? o i think we should! ;D but i hope it will much quicker as buying a new brand DSO is already emerging in my mind. When i do, i think i want to burn this DS1052E to ashes >:( or doing a full scale autopsy on it!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yyao on September 26, 2010, 12:43:35 am
Shafri,

It looks like we have the identical (or very similar) problem. Do you remember what the firmware version of your oscilloscope was prior to changing the model number? Did you try self-calibration prior to the model changes? I am quite sure that it is not an issue of you trying to convert your scope to have the logic analyzer function, because I didn't do that and got the same result.

I'm uploading some pictures to demonstrate my theory about ADC mismatch. You can see that the frequency of the repetitive noise is dependent on the sampling rate, specifically, f_noise = f_sampling / 10. You can also see that the same pattern repeats regardless of the vertical scale. I couldn't take a clear picture of this, but if you put the display mode to draw dots, you will see that there are 10 samples for each period of the noise waveform.

I'm kind of stumped on this. You could easily calibrate this sort of stuff out if you wrote your own firmware, but this does not seem to be an alternative right now. You could do some clever signal processing if you captured the data to a computer and compensated for the mismatch, but this will not work for all signals and defeats the purpose of a benchtop oscilloscope.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2010, 12:49:39 am
pls try to change to 2V/div setting and measure something, what will be the reading? and then measure something else, reading again? pls post picture at open probes (0V, and again, remember..... 2V/div setting)
opps: my firmware was 2.02 IIRC, during the purchase 2.03 or 2.04 is not in existence yet and i bought it just days after Dave publish the softmod.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2010, 12:54:39 am
i just tried your setting, about the same noise, welcome to the brotherhood, dimlow is our elder brother ;) and remember to do my setup above (2V/div)
so far from info: my speculation is... the FPGA store some table (calibration), but when the sh*t happens, the Blackfin will shift or modify or erase or whatever wacky on those table. but dont expand a discussion, its pointless!
since i got a pointer from drieg indicating my problem is not as simple as re-flashing the spansion where the FW lies.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yyao on September 26, 2010, 01:29:06 am
OK, so here's the pictures that you requested. The signal is some sine wave approximately 1MHz straight from a function generator. I captured one screen shot at 250Msps (lots of noise) and another one at 100Msps (no visible noise).

I am still quite sure that self-calibration is doing something. One time, after downgrading the model number, the vertical scale was all messed up - huge DC offset, vertical gain was non-responsive. After a self calibration, the vertical scale worked properly - which is what you see now.

Shafri, do you remember the firmware version when you bought your machine?

Can someone who bought a new DS1052E recently perform a self calibration and tell us what you see when you sample @ 1Gsps? Performing self calibration on an unmodified machine is totally legitimate and is recommended by the manual. It will not void your warranty.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on September 26, 2010, 07:17:12 am
Sounds like is the same problem i have too, lets hope Drieg comes out with his solution soon.
Should we pay him when he got the fix? o i think we should! ;D but i hope it will much quicker as buying a new brand DSO is already emerging in my mind. When i do, i think i want to burn this DS1052E to ashes >:( or doing a full scale autopsy on it!

I would willingly give him a payment if it fixed my scope Im not in any rush as i have not used the scope at all for the last few months.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2010, 10:25:04 am
Sounds like is the same problem i have too, lets hope Drieg comes out with his solution soon.
Should we pay him when he got the fix? o i think we should! ;D but i hope it will much quicker as buying a new brand DSO is already emerging in my mind. When i do, i think i want to burn this DS1052E to ashes >:( or doing a full scale autopsy on it!
I would willingly give him a payment if it fixed my scope Im not in any rush as i have not used the scope at all for the last few months.
me too. as the DSO is not mission critical for me to get the vertical reading correct, i'm mostly doing digital. but recently when i checked my brother car sound system, the vertical reading kind of pissed me off! still too busy with my daily life.

@yyao: you are still good at 2V/div where for my case its totally useless! so we just half brother haha! i mentioned my FW was and is 2.02. never have a taste to upgrade to 2.04 since people only say its only for "downgrade crippled" version.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on September 26, 2010, 11:58:28 pm
Picture attached of my new Rigol DS1052E running firmware 2.04 SP1 unmodified.

Settings as per previous photographs to provide direct comparison to faulty unit. No issues evident after self calibration.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yyao on September 27, 2010, 12:16:15 am
Settings as per previous photographs to provide direct comparison to faulty unit. No issues evident after self calibration.

Neat, thanks Aurora Comms. Are you going to modifying the model number of your unit? I'm not saying you should, but if you do, could you post the results of your modification?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: d0ss on September 27, 2010, 12:55:32 am
Well, after discovering the same problem I've deleted my post confirming the hack works with 2.04 SP1 ok.

My unit was a 2.04 SP1 which had no issues after self calibration (unmodified).

I'm fairly sure this issue did not appear after modification but only after I performed a self calibration, attached a picture below.



Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 27, 2010, 01:38:15 am
thats a weirdo (2nd pic). i've never seen that on my rigol.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on September 27, 2010, 02:00:40 am
I can almost hear the sales of DS1052E's plummeting... are the good times over for the affordable 100MHz hobbyist DSO I wonder ?

If, and I mean IF, Rigol have resorted to what is effectively a manufacturer induced 'self-destruct' on the units calibration as a result of the firmware ID change, they are not the company I thought they were. It isn't like you were hacking the OS or core firmware data is it.

I will leave my 1052E in it's 50MHz state for the moment but if I get hungy for 100MHz bandwidth I will just hardware mod the sucker to overcome that pesky varicap diode that hobbles the bandwidth. Rigol... put that in your pipe and smoke it !

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yyao on September 27, 2010, 02:13:27 am
thats a weirdo (2nd pic). i've never seen that on my rigol.

Take a buffer's worth of data. Stop the sampling. Turn on the Delayed option in the horizontal menu. Zoom in vertically. Useful for zooming in on trace details.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 27, 2010, 02:19:08 am
but i wonder why i cant go down to 10mV where Aurora can ???
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on September 27, 2010, 02:24:55 am
Please can an owner of a DS1052E who has upgraded to 100MHZ B/W on a unit supplied with Firmware 2.04 (NOT SP1)  check to see if they have any issues at the settings that are shown in the above pictues. The issue may not have been obvious to some owners and this could potentially be a wider problem than just 2.04 SP1.

Another thought. When owners upgraded the DS1052E fitted with 2.04 SP1 firmware it was not possible to re-install 2.04 SP1 as that has not (to my knowledge) been released. We should consider the possibilty that 2.04 SP1 contains amendments for a slightly different motherboard chipset that requires different calibration algorithms or settings. I have often seen new Firmware versions that were released for compatability with a new version of an IC that the manufacturer had switched to. Such updates are often backwardly compatable but older versions cannot correctly support the new IC. Just food for thought.

I am aware that some users of units that ran F/W 2.02 also have issues but I understand that these issues may stem from a corrupted upgrade process that may have caused issues in the firmware itself. Such failures may have no common denominator with the current 2.04 SP1 issue.  
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on September 27, 2010, 02:58:03 am
There would be no harm in emailing Rigol and asking whether they would be willing to supply Firmware 2.04 SP1. They may decline but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Alternatively, when Rigol eventually release the next firmware revision that may fix the problem for you as it will contain SP1 plus new changes.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yyao on September 27, 2010, 03:03:56 am
I may also add, I have physical access to 3 DS1052E's. All 3 of them were bought at the same time and share the same serial number except for the last 3 digits. They all came with 2.04 SP1. One of them (mine) has the modified model number exhibits the ADC mismatch problem even after self calibration. The other two which have not been modified do not exhibit this problem. I am too chicken to try this modification on the other two working ones.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on September 27, 2010, 04:15:07 am
I have updated the guide with nice big fat warning in red

just for the time beeing :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: thakidd on September 29, 2010, 03:41:42 pm
Just got my rigol today and am loving it @ 50Mhz! Sometime in the near future, I might try the hack. Question though, when I go to System Info it just flat out says sft version: 00.02.04. I read a lot about the firmware but must have gotten lost. If it just says 02.04 without an SP X what does that mean? Wanna check as I would hate to brick mine.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joelby on September 29, 2010, 05:22:56 pm
but i wonder why i cant go down to 10mV where Aurora can ???

If you're using a 10x probe, 20 mV seems to be the limit. It's 2 mV/div on 1x.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: markman on October 01, 2010, 01:21:02 pm
Just got my rigol today and am loving it @ 50Mhz! Sometime in the near future, I might try the hack. Question though, when I go to System Info it just flat out says sft version: 00.02.04. I read a lot about the firmware but must have gotten lost. If it just says 02.04 without an SP X what does that mean? Wanna check as I would hate to brick mine.

I got one that says 00.02.04 on the display.  You can read the full version number using the *IDN? command.  Mine reads 00.02.04.00.03 that way.  I believe you can do that query over RS-232 or USB.  For the USB, see the beginning of this thread and using the demoIDN.exe USB Tool.  

I've read through a lot of a few threads and I'm still not clear if anyone has updated a 00.02.04.00.03 unit without loosing the gain/offset of each of the A/D converters or suffering big offsets.  It would be interest to have a poll.  
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 01, 2010, 02:56:19 pm
this is a simple Windows App to check your model and serial and FW version. a simple *IDN? command.
connect through USB and make sure visa32.dll is working.
it has "Mod The Rigol" button too!

update: This link is outdated, pls download from the newer link i've provided in this thread, TQ!
link deleted
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: garryj on October 01, 2010, 04:39:01 pm
From the System Info screen of the Utility menu you can also:
Press the CH1 key twice
Press the CH2 key twice
Press the MATH key once

and it will show a power up count and additional firmware info, including the full version number.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: just on October 01, 2010, 05:17:49 pm
From the System Info screen of the Utility menu you can also:
.....

Nice... How did you figured out this? firmware disassembling? :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on October 01, 2010, 06:12:51 pm
this is a simple Windows App to check your model and serial and FW version. a simple *IDN? command.
connect through USB and make sure visa32.dll is working.
it has "Mod The Rigol" button too!


cool, where did you get this from? did you wrote it?

From the System Info screen of the Utility menu you can also:
Press the CH1 key twice
Press the CH2 key twice
Press the MATH key once

and it will show a power up count and additional firmware info, including the full version number.

nice, i'll add it to the guide!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 01, 2010, 10:10:18 pm
cool, where did you get this from? did you wrote it?
well, lets just say someone wrote it, and he is in desperate need for help to unlock the "Mod The Rigol" button ;) and probably... the other most useful automated commands too.
how to develop such App is explained in Rigol Programming Guide "Programming Based on Visa", "Programming in Visual Basic 6.0"... or "C++"
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on October 01, 2010, 10:30:14 pm
From the System Info screen of the Utility menu you can also:
Press the CH1 key twice
Press the CH2 key twice
Press the MATH key once


I went into this mode to have a look, when i reset the machine my serial number had changed!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 01, 2010, 10:45:35 pm
I went into this mode to have a look, when i reset the machine my serial number had changed!
did it fix, or change your calibration data?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on October 01, 2010, 10:47:23 pm
HA, that would be handy, but NO :o
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: drieg on October 01, 2010, 11:14:33 pm
From the System Info screen of the Utility menu you can also:
Press the CH1 key twice
Press the CH2 key twice
Press the MATH key once


...be careful with this mode, do not press any key, you can change some settings directly in flash (for. example s/n to DS1E112002)

@yyao & others with 02.04 SP1 or later..
Please note that if you got the scope with 02.04 SP1 firmware in it (or later), you should not use earlier firmware on your unit because it can't handle the newer hardware properly. Your scope is HW version "58" which is supported by the firmware version 02.04 SP1 only (not earlier). New firmwares support all older HW versions.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: markman on October 01, 2010, 11:52:01 pm
So... the one I just got says:

Software version:  00.02.04.00.03
   DSP:  2.20
   FPGA:2.00
   HardVersion:57

That is the 00.02.04 version (no SP).  Will older firmware versions work OK with it?  Are you saying the mod will work and not mess the calibration?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on October 02, 2010, 12:31:10 am
From the System Info screen of the Utility menu you can also:
Press the CH1 key twice
Press the CH2 key twice
Press the MATH key once


...be careful with this mode, do not press any key, you can change some settings directly in flash (for. example s/n to DS1E112002)

@yyao & others with 02.4 SP1
Please note that if you got the scope with 02.04. SP1 firmware in it, you should not use earlier firmware on your unit because it can't handle the newer hardware properly. Your scope is HW version "58" which is supported by firmware version 02.04 SP1 only (not earlier). New firmwares support all older HW versions.


if that is the case, i'll prefre not to mention it in a "dummy" guide, is there another (bit safer) way to get the hardware version?

cool, where did you get this from? did you wrote it?
well, lets just say someone wrote it, and he is in desperate need for help to unlock the "Mod The Rigol" button ;) and probably... the other most useful automated commands too.
how to develop such App is explained in Rigol Programming Guide "Programming Based on Visa", "Programming in Visual Basic 6.0"... or "C++"


I'm not really a programmer  :) - I'll leave other tool for now in the guide, it's not that more difficult
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on October 02, 2010, 01:04:46 am


...be careful with this mode, do not press any key, you can change some settings directly in flash (for. example s/n to DS1E112002)


Yep i ageeeeee here!

What other buttons should i not press ? and what will they do ? I think i pressed every button whilst in that mode :'(

I think i should have been told earlier

Oh, and my scope shows no hardware version there.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 02, 2010, 02:19:19 am
Oh, and my scope shows no hardware version there.
is it bricked? or still the same function? if its still the same then i think all you have to do is to save the memory of the HW revision in your brain ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: garryj on October 02, 2010, 03:14:13 am
Quote

...be careful with this mode, do not press any key, you can change some settings directly in flash (for. example s/n to DS1E112002)


Sorry, I was unaware that this mode allowed you to alter data!

But it does appear to be useful because it provides a hardware version -- HardVersion=57 being a "hackable" scope?

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 02, 2010, 03:20:27 am
Thanks for the 2.04 SP1 information drieg.

The question that is going through my mind is whether the earlier version firmware damages the calibration data or is it just that you cannot reload the correct 2.04 SP1 firmware after upgrading and so an anomaly occurs ? If it is the first case, there is little hope of upgrading for me but in the second case I just need to obtain 2.04 SP1 from somewhere for use after the reversion to 2.02.

Also... if the 2.04 SP1 firmware is all that is required, at least two members of this forum can repair their DSO's if they can persuade Rigol to provide 2.04 SP1 to them for re-installation  :)

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 02, 2010, 03:37:00 am
I think the circuit around that pesky Varicap diode filter is going to feel the irresistible heat of my Weller soldering iron sometime soon.

If you can't flash it .....MOD IT  :D

No 2nS range, but I can live with that and I understand electronics much better than the intricacies of firmware  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yyao on October 03, 2010, 01:31:12 am
I've been in contact with drieg, and he has been able to restore my settings. My scope has been modified to a DS1102E and is full of awesome and win. Just to confirm, it looks like:


If you are reading this and are hesitant to try this, I will say that there is an associated risk because lower version firmware does cause problems with the scope. However, it is likely that your can restore your previous settings (thanks to drieg) and your scope can work fine.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AlphZeta on October 03, 2010, 03:09:18 am
Hi Guys,

I just receive my DS1052E scope.

Here's the detailed info from the sys info:

Software version: 00.02.04.00.03
DSP: 02.20
FPGA: 02.00
HardVersion:57

My question is, is it hackable to DS1102E? I have been following this topic for a while and I know that it is necessary to downgrade the firmware to 2.02SP2 first prior to any hacking attempts. I downloaded the 2.02SP2 firmware from Rigol's official site but the MD5 is 272086b2037231c62446617436544a77, which is different then the version suggested in earlier?

Anyone had done the hack with the exact version of my scope?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yyao on October 03, 2010, 03:41:44 am
AlphZeta, the MD5SUM for that file is correct. I haven't modified that version of the scope, but in theory, it should be easy. You just have to follow the guide. The firmware that your scope has is currently available on Rigol's website.

The problem that the 2.4 SP1 and hardware 58 people (like me) are having is that the firmware that we need is not available to the public. Any lower firmware does not work correctly with out scopes. That is, until drieg's help.

I highly recommend the USB cable method over the serial port method. I used the serial port method first, but was totally stumped why nothing worked until I realized that the scope had a DCE pinout but on a male port. Just soldered together an adapter and I was on my way. I've never seen a cable like that and I don't know if you can buy such a monstrosity off the shelf. If soldering is not for you, the USB method works equally well, you just have to install more software.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AlphZeta on October 03, 2010, 05:45:25 am
Quote
the MD5SUM for that file is correct.

Hmm... but I downloaded directly from Rigol's website (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/))? It says it's DS1000E Update V2 PS2? Where did you get your V2SP2 firmware?

Update:
Never mind, I saw that the MD5 was for the patched V2SP2... Thanks!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mobbarley on October 05, 2010, 12:21:25 am
I've been in contact with drieg, and he has been able to restore my settings. My scope has been modified to a DS1102E and is full of awesome and win.

Can we get some more info on how this was resolved please?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on October 05, 2010, 05:20:16 am
I've never seen a cable like that and I don't know if you can buy such a monstrosity off the shelf. If soldering is not for you, the USB method works equally well, you just have to install more software.

Not sure if anyone who's afraid of a little soldering should use a scope  ;D
But the usb methode is indeed more practical in general :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AlphZeta on October 05, 2010, 11:13:46 am
Hi guys,

Count me for another successful mod ;D! As I mentioned in my previous threads, my scope came with firmware version 00.02.04.00.03 and hardware version 57. I had hesitated hacking it since only a few people so far had reported having the firmware version of 2.04.00.03. But after contacting forum member shirsch (who downgraded his 2.04.00.03 firmware to the modified 2.02sp2 version, but didn't upgrade back afterwards) and hearing positive suggestions from yyao and drieg, I decided to give it a try as well.

The steps are pretty much exactly like polossatik suggested in the guide.

I first downgraded the scope to 2.02sp2 (patched to 2.04.02). After power cycling, I used the USB tool to send the MODEL and SERIAL commands. Since I don't have a windows PC, I did the modification under a Windows 2003 Server VM and it worked out quite well. After sending these commands, the scope appeared to have frozen (does not respond to any buttons) but a restart solved the issue (not sure if it is supposed to freeze for this version of the firmware).

After I verified that the time scale can go all the way down to 2ns, I upgraded the firmware back to 00.02.04.00.03 and power-cycled the scope again. I then re-calibrated the scope and no issue at all. After I updated the firmware, the scope bandwidth remained at 100MHz!

As a side note, I took a screenshot of the original scope (unmodified) measuring a 109MHz carrier (yes, the 50MHz scope can be used to measure frequencies that high, but the attenuation is very high) and it showed a Vpp of 188mV. With the modification, it shows the same signal has a Vpp of 784mV and the time scale can also be adjusted down to 2ns (since I can't post pictures here, I will probably post the pictures on my blog later and update the link). So it is definitely a 100MHz scope now!


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zarthcode on October 05, 2010, 04:08:59 pm
Huge thank you for this thread!  Ordered my unit friday from aidetech (ebay) - received it today (A great sign, meaning it was already in the country).  Had 00.02.04.00.03 installed.  USB hack worked on windows7 x64 using the visa460runtime from national instruments:  Note that is your device shows as a pictbridge or storage, go to the utility menu and change the USB setting, then restart the scope - not your desktop, lol.

...Maybe I can use the money I saved to buy that LCR Dave reviewed ;-)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ceut on October 06, 2010, 03:52:05 am
I've ordered my DS1052E on DX with EMS + shipping today.
Hope that I have a good hardware version to do this too  ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mvh on October 06, 2010, 01:15:20 pm
Received my DS1052E from dx a week ago. As fitting my usual level of luck it was hardver 58. Well, just have to keep on lurking just in case someone comes up with something sneaky ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: firehopper on October 06, 2010, 01:30:06 pm
I've ordered my DS1052E on DX with EMS + shipping today.
Hope that I have a good hardware version to do this too  ;D

I ordered mine on 9/25/10, still marked as waiting for supplier. I hope it ships soon.. I cant wait..
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: iovoidR on October 08, 2010, 02:19:11 am
I too ordered this fine device (from DX on 5/10) .. can't wait!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ceut on October 08, 2010, 01:41:32 pm
For those who ordered the ds1052Ee on DX like me  :-\ :
http://www.dealextreme.com/forums/Forums.dx/Forum.-100~threadid.704868 (http://www.dealextreme.com/forums/Forums.dx/Forum.-100~threadid.704868)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: iovoidR on October 08, 2010, 03:59:51 pm
For those who ordered the ds1052Ee on DX like me  :-\ :
http://www.dealextreme.com/forums/Forums.dx/Forum.-100~threadid.704868 (http://www.dealextreme.com/forums/Forums.dx/Forum.-100~threadid.704868)

Damn. Thanks for the info ceut!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: markman on October 09, 2010, 01:01:40 am
I don't want to dilute this thread with buying information, but it seems to be headed that way anyway.  These people have them and if you ask for a quote that compares with DX, they'll send you one. 
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html (http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 09, 2010, 01:26:18 am
I don't want to dilute this thread with buying information, but it seems to be headed that way anyway.  These people have them and if you ask for a quote that compares with DX, they'll send you one. 
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html (http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html)
use the link from Dave's EEVBlog Main Page to support it!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on October 09, 2010, 10:58:08 am
I would really appreciate it if we could stay a bit on topic in this thread.

info about what firmware or hardware version you receive from dealers is of course always welcome.

thank you.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AlphZeta on October 09, 2010, 11:29:24 am
OK, as I promised a few days ago, here are some of pictures of my mods:

The pictures below shows a carrier frequency of roughly 109MHz (the frequency generator is not very stable and you could see the frequency drift). Note the difference in measured Vpp!

Before:
(http://www.kerrywong.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/109MHz_Carrier_Before.bmp)]

After:
(http://www.kerrywong.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/109MHz_Carrier_After.bmp)

Here's a screen shot of the scope showing the detailed firmware info and you can clearly see the firmware version 00.02.04.00.03:
http://www.kerrywong.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/sysinfo_2.jpg (http://www.kerrywong.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/sysinfo_2.jpg)

For the detailed write up, please see my blog entry here (http://www.kerrywong.com/2010/10/08/my-new-ds1052e-oscilloscope/ (http://www.kerrywong.com/2010/10/08/my-new-ds1052e-oscilloscope/))
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dendennis on October 09, 2010, 03:41:06 pm
Ok some people are reporting problems about the hw58 models.
I recieved my ds1052E a couple of weeks ago, (at this point the first
detected sp1 said ok for the hack before a big red retraction  :o.)

Anyhoo I went ahead and modified my scope from 2.04sp1 immediately.
and very happy with the results (only been doing a bit of slow speed pic stuff for now
and been bloomin' impressed by this little marvel).

I decided to search for 2.04SP1 firmware as I'd like to have that back just because it was there initially,
yeah I'm a bit wierd like that  :o.
Anyway after reading reports of problems with SP1 I checked and yes I have hw ver 58  :(.


Oddly so far my scope seems reasonably good, pretty clean signals and no problem at low frequency.

until I get around 2 - 3.5Mhz where I seem to get around up to +-250mv of noise on a 3.5V sine wave.
but only if I zoom into 1 cycle and the 1Gsa sample rate kicks in, no noise at all on the 500Msa
[Real time Sampling Normal aquisition]
(maximum speed of 3.5Mhz I've tested so far and I am pushing my cheapy maxim function generator to it's max).
anyhow any noise dissapears immediately and clean sharp signals as it should on average acquisition at 16 samples.

I assumed this was about right and working as it should.
[mind you I didn't expect much from a very cheap DSO in the first place and i'm still in awe of the wee beastie].

some posts show that on no signal they get a lot of noise, mines reasonably clear
(vpp of around 480uv-560uv no attached probe, mind you with all the wifi and junk all over the house
constantly running I expected way more interferance).

Looking at the posts though there is an extra step I took.

step 1 :-

press :- Storage, change waveform to factory, select load, as RIGOL recommend in the pdf manual.
essentally cleaning out user settings I don't know if it does anything apart from that.

step 2 :- Now re-run self cal (remember to start it going with RUN/STOP before heading off for a coffe, gosh i did swear at that one  ::)).


If that solves or improves any issues for anyone here or if it does nothing for you then post back.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 11, 2010, 03:33:29 am
Drieg has fixed my Rigol...

Below is a Windows App to check your model, serial and FW version, automatically change the appropriate numbering to prepare for upgrade.
i've provided the VB6 source code for anybody who interested.

step:
1) connect Rigol DS1052E through USB and make sure visa32.dll is working.
2) Click "Check Rigol Model & Serial" button, it will show you the *IDN? result and warn you your FW version. (it will automatically fill the new model and serial number for upgrade process)
3) Click "Upgrade Rigol" button to start the upgrade. Wait until it ask you to restart your rigol and click OK. dont do anything in between.

You should upgraded your Rigol afterward. Any comment/issue with the App pls notify me tq.
ps: I guess i'm a little bit late on this. but well.... better late than never!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xoom on October 11, 2010, 05:31:32 am
If this model and serial edit fields are editable and from them Rigol is upgraded.. then better make those Edit fields read only :) (im not checked) and when upgrade is in progress it's good to show BIG, FAT message to don't do anything :) (also not checked, maybe it's already done) :) anyhow it's nice little app :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 11, 2010, 06:08:57 am
If this model and serial edit fields are editable and from them Rigol is upgraded.. then better make those Edit fields read only :) (im not checked) and when upgrade is in progress it's good to show BIG, FAT message to don't do anything :) (also not checked, maybe it's already done) :) anyhow it's nice little app :)
the editable field is to enable you to change to whatever you like or in case App doesnt do it correctly. There will take some extra bytes for the BIG FAT dont do anything msg. I hope it will not do something wrong to your scope. I've provided the code for other to analyze. its just simple VISA viVPrintf API and send *IDN?, :INFO:MODEL, and :INFO:SERIAL command.

make sure u do step 1 to ensure visa communication is ok (if your model,serial show up), when u upgrade, for my case it took around 2-5 second for the first beep (:INFO:MODEL successfull) and then another 2-5 second before the msg to turn off rigol appear (:INFO:SERIAL successfull).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xoom on October 11, 2010, 06:23:29 am
my scope is already hacked successfully:) 3 - 4 months ago:) with 1-st post guide :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on October 11, 2010, 07:07:28 am
shafri , I've added a link to your post (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727#msg19727) in the guide under "5) Change the  DS1052E to DS1102E".
If you need to add info or update the program, please update that post
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 11, 2010, 02:59:34 pm
Thanx. i hope some experts can eval the program, as i'm afraid if the code can do something wrong. In my part i've check it, and so far nothing is wrong. I'm afraid if Visa driver got some quirk bug ??? i'm using visa32.dll version 4.3.0.49152 to test. I only tested it once, in a single click in doing the real upgrade for my scope after got repaired by Drieg. now i've "back to the future" and got a full working modded DS1102E. I dont dare to click the button for the second time :( i'll leave that to expert.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 12, 2010, 03:06:11 am
Has anyone heard any more about the failure rate with upgrade attempts on Hardware version 58. From the last I read it was a genuine case of Russian Roulette with low confidence of recovery due to the absence of a reference copy of firmware 2.04 SP1.

I took a quick look at the various firmware’s that are available and was surprised at how different the content was between them. 2.02 bears little resemblance to 2.04. It's all Dutch to me but I expected minor differences and tweaks rather than swathes of different Hex code. Heaven only knows what 2.04 SP1 looks like...... I have given up on the idea of comparing 2.04 with 2.04 SP1.... I'm not smart enough for that  :-[

Cheers
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: d0ss on October 12, 2010, 06:30:33 am
I bring a present to all HW ver 58 owners firmware version 02.04.01.02 (2.04 SP1). I've attached the firmware below and confirm it fixes the noise issue after self-calibration.

Firmware attached, confirmed to work with HW 58 scope can't say much else.

EDIT:

Hashes for DS1000EUpdate.RGL

CRC3: 3B44DEE5
MD5: BCF73565352391935F3A9651D30776EE
SHA-1: B2DDB481F8A71CF7037C93AF9C45CEBBE97C71A2
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dendennis on October 12, 2010, 06:40:48 am
Thankyou d0ss much appreciated
I'm going to try the hack again later and see if it still works.
I'll post back after I have tried.

*edit*
redid the hack via usb (00.02 modified, changed serial and model no, upgraded to 2.04SP1)
loaded storage factory settings and redid calibration.

IT WORKS ****** Yipeee, no noise at full sampling rate anymore.

So my DS1052E HW Ver58 is now a DS1102E many thanks to all who worked on the hack and for d0ss for the 2.04sp1 firmware.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dexters_lab on October 12, 2010, 07:02:49 am
@shafri:

bought my 1052 just after i saw it on the eevblog and watched with anticipation for a 100mhz hack, just browsed in the other day after not taking any interest in my scope to see i'd missed all the excitment!

thankfully mine came with 00.02.02SP2 so with shafti's app it turned into a 1102 just a few mins ago ;D

many thanks go out to all those who made this possible!!  ;)




Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: d0ss on October 12, 2010, 07:03:58 am
Thankyou d0ss much appreciated
I'm going to try the hack again later and see if it still works.
I'll post back after I have tried.

*edit*
redid the hack via usb (00.02 modified, changed serial and model no, upgraded to 2.04SP1)
loaded storage factory settings and redid calibration.

IT WORKS ****** Yipeee, no noise at full sampling rate anymore.

So my DS1052E HW Ver58 is now a DS1102E many thanks to all who worked on the hack and for d0ss for the 2.04sp1 firmware.



In the process of modding it myself... didn't take a lot of convincing.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 12, 2010, 07:33:57 am
d0ss,

You are a gentleman and a scholar .... THANK YOU !

Thank you for onforwarding the firmware. I understood from RigolNA that this firmware was due to be released on their site soon so I do not see that you have done anything wrong. You have made my day as until I had a copy of 2.04SP1 I wasn't keen to hack my 1052E for fear of hardware incompatibilities.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of those who have been involved, past and present, with the 1052E upgrade program. This is a real bonus for hobbyists and for once I haven't 'missed the boat' as is my normal experience in life  ;D

'drieg' deserves a special mention also as that gentleman has spent many hours helping poor unfortunates with bricked or semi-bricked 1052E's that would otherwise be unrepairable. This isn't the first microprocessor based product that drieg has assisted owners with either. He is a genuine good Samaritan.

Happy days  :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: d0ss on October 12, 2010, 07:48:54 am
d0ss,

You are a gentleman and a scholar .... THANK YOU !

Thank you for onforwarding the firmware. I understood from RigolNA that this firmware was due to be released on their site soon so I do not see that you have done anything wrong. You have made my day as until I had a copy of 2.04SP1 I wasn't keen to hack my 1052E for fear of hardware incompatibilities.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of those who have been involved, past and present, with the 1052E upgrade program. This is a real bonus for hobbyists and for once I haven't 'missed the boat' as is my normal experience in life  ;D

'drieg' deserves a special mention also as that gentleman has spent many hours helping poor unfortunates with bricked or semi-bricked 1052E's that would otherwise be unrepairable. This isn't the first microprocessor based product that drieg has assisted owners with either. He is a genuine good Samaritan.

Happy days  :)


No need for thanks, I would hope anyone would have shared it too. My guess is it wouldn't be to hard for Rigol to find who the firmware was sent to, I probably don't have a warranty any more. Heh.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well just to confirm I've modded my scope to 100MHz no problems. Flashed to the patched 02.02 SP2, modded with the VB6 tool (thanks to shafri), updated to 2.04 SP1 then ran self calibration. No problems.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on October 12, 2010, 08:00:37 am
You all forgot one step, use Model Number DS1152E, it opens the bandwidth to 150Mhz
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 12, 2010, 08:25:55 am
Now you've gone and done it  ;)

Whilst I was aware that it may be possible to achieve 150MHz from seeing it offered as an upgrade elsewhere, I have no idea how it is being manged in hardware. Maybe the notorious varicap diode is still acting as an RF shunt in the DS1102E at 100MHz, with a little capacitance still in play ?

A fresh area for Rigol related discussion on the forum ?  ;D

 
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on October 12, 2010, 09:28:36 am

A fresh area for Rigol related discussion on the forum ?  ;D


Its already been up for a day in the General forum!
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1495.0 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1495.0)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 12, 2010, 09:53:37 am
That'll teach me for not checking first.

I was too focussed on this thread and it's great developments on the FW 2.04 SP1 front.

I'll get back in my box now   ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on October 12, 2010, 11:06:09 am
I bring a present to all HW ver 58 owners firmware version 02.04.01.02 (2.04 SP1). I've attached the firmware below and confirm it fixes the noise issue after self-calibration.

Firmware attached, confirmed to work with HW 58 scope can't say much else.


thankx a lot! I'll update the guide tomorrow.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ave on October 14, 2010, 11:02:33 pm

Just to report another successful HW 58 upgrade.

I downgraded to patched 02.02.02, applied changes and upgraded back to 02.04.01.02.

For what it's worth, I used a serial cable method with a generic ftdi usb<->rs232 converter in between.
Procedure was done in linux (32-bit ubuntu 10.10) using cutecom as terminal program.

After calibration, no noise or other issues are present, as far as I can tell.

Big thanks to everyone involved in the process, much appreciated.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 15, 2010, 05:12:33 am
And another HW58/2.04SP1 success story.

Followed the instructions at the front of this topic thread and used Shafri's great little auto upgrade program before returning to 2.04 SP1.

I did a factory reset, as has been suggested, to clear out any rubbish data before running the calibration routine.
All worked well and no signs of any issues relating to the change of identity and bandwidth.

It feels good to be in the 100MHz club  ;D

Thanks again to all who worked on this challenge and shared the knowledge of how to do it.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gollUM on October 17, 2010, 04:05:57 am
HW58/2.04SP1


Did everything as Aurora... Success!

No problem evident ... yet!

Have fun and... thanks to all involved intelectually :o)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on October 17, 2010, 04:29:26 am
Hi all,please how can i check the hardware revision??

THX
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dendennis on October 17, 2010, 12:07:34 pm
To find out hardware version
Press utility, follow the menu down and select system info,
press buttons ch1 twice, then ch2 twice then math once.

be aware do not press any key except RUN/STOP to exit while in this mode or
you can mess up your serial number.
(it's easy to change back using the hack tutorial.)

I don't know if you could alter anything else in this mode so please be careful.

take care.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fatcat on October 17, 2010, 07:08:59 pm
I have successfully upgraded to 100Mhz and all is TOK. My original firmware was 00.02.04.00.03 and I restored it to the same. My hardware version is:57

Thanks to polossatik and the rest of the people involved with this guide and the demoIDN usbtool.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on October 17, 2010, 08:52:13 pm
To find out hardware version
Press utility, follow the menu down and select system info,
press buttons ch1 twice, then ch2 twice then math once.
CUT
Thanks!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 17, 2010, 09:14:14 pm
For those who are upgrading their Rigol and are wondering what the mew 2.04 SP1 firmware offers over previous firmware versions ....

I 'spoke' with RigolNA regarding the supply of 2.04SP1 prior to it's release on this forum and Chris Armstrong provided the following response:

"Hello, thanks for contacting us. Your scope should have 02.04 on it. We have recently heard that 2.04 SP1 is being released, but I don't yet have a file for it. In general, I don't expect there to be major feature changes, just a little housekeeping and a tweak to the PictBridge Identification. If there is a particular capability you are looking for please let me know. If you are just looking to stay as up to date as possible that is OK too. Either way we do not yet have an update file for 2.04 SP1. When we do, it will be posted on www.rigolna.com (http://www.rigolna.com). "

I found that a friendly and encouraging response, so credit to Chris for that.

It would appear that 2.04SP1 does have some minor upgrade to the PictBridge capability but the comment regarding "Housekeping" did make me smile  ;) I presume that relates to the Hardware 58 changes. Chris infers that no major changes will be in the release. The 1052E has been round a long time now so I suppose it's reasonable to expect any future firmware releases to only address Rigols concerns regarding the upgrade hack and any minor hardware changes. It was interesting to read elsewhere on this forum that MCS (UK) are clearing out the current stocks of Rigol kit ready for "new inventory" The 1052E isn't mentioned but I wonder how long before they retire our model and replace it with a new one that cannot be upgraded by the user ? If you haven't already, get one while you still can  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Andrei on October 18, 2010, 02:19:43 am
I bring a present to all HW ver 58 owners firmware version 02.04.01.02 (2.04 SP1). I've attached the firmware below and confirm it fixes the noise issue after self-calibration.

Firmware attached, confirmed to work with HW 58 scope can't say much else.

EDIT:

Hashes for DS1000EUpdate.RGL

CRC3: 3B44DEE5
MD5: BCF73565352391935F3A9651D30776EE
SHA-1: B2DDB481F8A71CF7037C93AF9C45CEBBE97C71A2

There seems to be no link attached to this post, I need this firmware as well since I am suffering from the same calibration issue, would you mind posting it again?

Thank you.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: crmaris on October 18, 2010, 04:39:10 am
Hello to all and thanks for the valuable info!!

Two days ago I bought a 1052E (HW58) and I flashed it to 100MHz following the right procedure and I used the 2.04 SP1 in the end and then performed the calibration.

I am planning to use the Oscilloscope to measure the ripple of PC Power Supply Units (PSUs). For this job I was using a USB instruments Stingray which would be retired.

The problem is that the rigol peeks a lot of noise (I use a BNC cable to connect the Rigol to my custom made load tester). With the PSU (that is currently tested) in standby with the stingray I have 6-8mV P-P AC ripple while with the rigol I get 120-130mV!!

I used the stingray as a signal generator to test the Rigol (with the same bnc cable) and the signals were normal, without any random noise (through out all bandwidth range).

Can someone tell me how to solve this problem?

Thanks!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 18, 2010, 05:25:16 am
Andrei,

I think you may have missed the firmware file name... it is there, under the Hash info.

Look for 204SP1.7z next to a paperclip. (You have to be logged in)

Then download the latest copy of WinZip or similar to unzip the 7z compressed file type.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 18, 2010, 05:38:26 am
crmaris,

My 2 Cents worth.......

1) What bandwidth is your Stingray and do you trust it's readings ?
2) In my experience PC SMPSU's can be the noisiest and ugliest of power sources for sensitive components that do not like noise and ripple. I would not class a PC SMPSU as a lab grade voltage source so would expect to see some pretty nasty ripple. I have seen them used as cheap workshop PSU's. I personally don't like the idea of using one with low current, sensitive linear components. For pure AMPERE grunt they are fine but expect some RFI and ripple  ;D
3) You need to do a confidence check on your Rigol. Take a look at the output of a standard LM7812 linear regulator circuit and see if the ripple level falls within the components spec. If the ripple is very high, I think your Rigol may have an issue.

As I say, just my 2 Cents worth but you effectively have an anomaly between two instruments so the only way to prove which is right is by a confidence check on a known source.


Update: Take a look here:

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-1046819.html (http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-1046819.html)

The example specs show a PC SMPSU having up to 1% ripple on all rails. At 12V that would be 120mV.... about what you are seeing.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ceut on October 18, 2010, 07:43:41 am
Hello to all and thanks for the valuable info!!

Two days ago I bought a 1052E (HW58) and I flashed it to 100MHz following the right procedure and I used the 2.04 SP1 in the end and then performed the calibration.

I am planning to use the Oscilloscope to measure the ripple of PC Power Supply Units (PSUs). For this job I was using a USB instruments Stingray which would be retired.

The problem is that the rigol peeks a lot of noise (I use a BNC cable to connect the Rigol to my custom made load tester). With the PSU (that is currently tested) in standby with the stingray I have 6-8mV P-P AC ripple while with the rigol I get 120-130mV!!

I used the stingray as a signal generator to test the Rigol (with the same bnc cable) and the signals were normal, without any random noise (through out all bandwidth range).

Can someone tell me how to solve this problem?

Thanks!

I've not received my DS1052E yet...
But you can take a look at this too (in french but you have some screenshots):
http://www.canardpc.com/dossier-41-Alimentation_Corsair_HX620W.html (http://www.canardpc.com/dossier-41-Alimentation_Corsair_HX620W.html)
One of the best PC power supply on the market!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: crmaris on October 18, 2010, 04:06:25 pm
thanks for the answer Aurora. I think that the problem is some unwanted AC source noise that the Rigol is picking. If I haven't used the stingray as a signal generator to see that the signal on the Rigol has no noise then I would say that something went wrong with the hack.

Now that I made my Rigol 100MHz is there a way to revert back to 50MHz to test if this is the problem?

Thanks.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on October 18, 2010, 05:49:07 pm
If something did go wrong with the hack you would still see noise when you revert back to 50Mhz. To see if something went wrong in my case i simply had no inputs and changed the time base. There you would then see the noise increase by maybe one division. Also by changing the vertical, you would see the trace get offset from centre. When i zoomed in fully to the noise i could trigger on it and measure the freq of 100Mhz

See Below
(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/gallery/475_17_10_10_11_51_50.bmp)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: crmaris on October 18, 2010, 08:53:15 pm
in my cases ? notice spikes :(  I cant understand how the stingray has not any problem and does not pick any noise.

Also with nothing connected I get the following. So I think that my Rigol is OK after the hack.


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: crmaris on October 18, 2010, 09:09:51 pm
When I connect it to my PSU load tester through I have the following (with no PSU connected. Only the power supply of the load tester is running to feed the fans. When I close the PSU of the load tester the ripple drops to 35-38mV). Also when I put BW limit on the P-P ripple is 110-120 mV. In the mean time the Stingray as I said it does not show any noise  ???



Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on October 19, 2010, 12:41:52 am
That looks like PSU noise to me
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: crmaris on October 19, 2010, 01:18:14 am
I also think that the Rigol is fine and the signal I get is noise from the PSU of the Load tester. Although the PSU of the load tester is an SFX Silverstone 450 which has much lower ripple (I have tested/reviewed it) than the one shown in Rigols screen.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 19, 2010, 03:45:25 am

 crmaris,

I am an analogue RF tech (with some Digital knowledge thrown in) so forgive me if don't have a firm grasp of all things PC SMPSU related. I do have some thoughts on your situation however.

My experience of SMPSU's is that good ones can be very RF quiet and 'not so good' ones can be a disaster on the Radio frequency Interference (RFI) front. You are connecting a 100/20 MHz bandwidth scope to a product that uses high speed power switching in it's design. The output power rails are designed to meet certain regulation and ripple specifications but what about switching transients and induced RFI on the rails or casing ? RFI can also be induced into test cables spatially and appear as noise on the scope. You may be seeing high frequency switching noise on the Rigol that is beyond the frequency response of your USB scope. I have seen SMPSU's totally trash the receive performance of high end HF receivers due to their radiated or induced RFI.

This may not be the issue in your case but it is a possibility all the same.


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: pete456 on October 19, 2010, 10:21:28 am
Thanks to all in this forum,
another success with HW 58 (2.04SP1) - a very painless and smooth upgrade thanks to the very clear instructions.
Cheers,
Pete
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on October 19, 2010, 10:39:31 am
Out of curiosity i just looked up the stingray scope specs, from this page, im assuming you have this one.
http://www.easysync-ltd.com/product/520/ds1m12.html (http://www.easysync-ltd.com/product/520/ds1m12.html)



Features:

·    Combined Oscilloscope, Data Logger, Signal Generator, Spectrum Analyzer,
     Voltage and Frequency Meter functions
·    12 Bit ADC Resolution
·    Simultaneous sampling on both channels.
·    32k Byte Waveform buffer
·    Oscilloscope Mode - 20M S/s sampling rate ( repetitive ) 1M S/s native
·    DataLogger Mode - up to 50k S/s 12-bit data streaming simultaneously on both
     channels
·    Maximum input voltage +/- 50V
·    AC / DC Coupling
·    Edge, min/max,  pulse width and delayed trigger modes
·    Analog Bandwidth 250KHz
·    Inbuilt 10-bit waveform generator with +/- 3.5v output range and 1k buffer.
·    Hardware upgradeable over USB
·    Self Powered USB Interface ( 250mA )
·    EasyScope II  ( Windows ) software (see downloads)
·    EasyLogger ( Windows ) software (see downloads)
·    Interface DLL's and code samples for 3rd party developers included
·    Instrument carrying bag included
·    Attractive enclosure with rubberized inmoulds
·    Dimensions W: 116mm x H: 30mm x D: 100mm


the key point i see here is "Analog Bandwidth 250KHz"

With this you are not going to see any high frequency spikes and it will make your PSU look great! with the Rigol you will see a lot more noise.

250KHz verses 100MHz basically you have a much better pair of eyes and you can now see the detail, the view is no longer so blurred.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: crmaris on October 19, 2010, 07:13:36 pm
Yeap I agree that the Stingray is very limited compared to the Rigol but for PSU testing is fine. A big number of major PSU  reviewers has a stingray. Mainly because it has a very good PC interface and the screenshots are much better (and easier as a process) than the ones of the Rigol.

Finally I saw in this thread some of the Rigols that had bad calibration data and their symptoms are not the case in my oscilloscope. So something else is happening.

Thank you all for your help!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: slburris on October 20, 2010, 01:27:08 am
My apologies up front to those of you who own Stingrays and Nanos as this is a
mini rant!

At 1M samples/sec, the Stingray is in the same class of scopes as the DSO nano.
It's not as cute, but has more memory and is dual channel and can do some
lightweight waveform generation.  But it's still a toy!

For the cost, you could easily get a working 100Mhz Tektronix scope off of Ebay.
Or you would be better off getting the DSO Nano 2 whenever it comes out:

http://iteadstudio.com/copied/multi-channel-pocket-oscilloscope-ds0203-preview/ (http://iteadstudio.com/copied/multi-channel-pocket-oscilloscope-ds0203-preview/)

If you insist on a USB scope, how about this one for $194 ($1.50 more than the Stingray)?
150M samples/sec (75M if using both channels), 60Mhz analog bandwidth.
Seems like a much better deal than the Stingray, especially for a buck
and a half more...

http://circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10215 (http://circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/10215)

Scott

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on October 20, 2010, 06:32:17 am
This discussion of the SMPSU 'noise' has been interesting and I don't wish to spoil the fun but as it is apparent that the Rigol DSO is not suffering as a result of the 100 MHz upgrade, this SMPSU issue may need a new thread so as to keep this one on topic ?
 
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on October 22, 2010, 09:20:15 pm
Here another success hw58 2.04sp1  ;D ;D

Thanks to all involved in this hack!! ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Arsenal on October 23, 2010, 06:50:42 am
Worked for me as well on my today received DS1052E, hw version 58 and 2.04 SP1. Thank you very much for your hard work everyone.

Don't have a very sharp signal source right now, but my MSP430 turned from 5.4ns rise- and 6.5ns falltime to 4.2ns rise- and 5.4ns falltime, so I guess thats showing enough difference to prove it worked.

And no noticable noise :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: SirDan on October 25, 2010, 03:45:08 pm
Hello All,

A successful upgrade to the 100Mhz club from HW:57 and FW:00.02.04.00.03
Unit purchased from http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html (http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html) 3 weeks ago.
I used shafri's VB utillity and was able to skip a bunch of steps from the dummy guide.
I re-upgraded back to FW:00.02.04.00.03 just in case it makes a difference.
Did the self calibration with probes unplugged and everything is great.

Thanks to polossatik for the guide!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on October 27, 2010, 04:05:07 am
I've just tested the rigol with a sub nS pulse gen. (2n2369 avalanche pulser) here is the results!

On equivalent time averaged i could get 2nS rise time,pretty impressive.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on October 27, 2010, 09:49:42 am
It would be interesting if you could test it with the 150 Mhz ie change the serial to DS1152E  and see if it changes anything.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Time on October 27, 2010, 10:27:11 am
with that avalanche pulser you should be able to get as low as a few hundred pico-seconds in rise and fall times.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on October 27, 2010, 06:26:01 pm
It would be interesting if you could test it with the 150 Mhz ie change the serial to DS1152E  and see if it changes anything.
Sure it would be interesting but i don't want to play/risk with other FW downgrade-upgrade  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 27, 2010, 09:27:46 pm
with that avalanche pulser you should be able to get as low as a few hundred pico-seconds in rise and fall times.
any link of reference or where to get this item?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jahonen on October 27, 2010, 09:45:36 pm
with that avalanche pulser you should be able to get as low as a few hundred pico-seconds in rise and fall times.
any link of reference or where to get this item?


It is described in Linear Technology AN-47, also see my measurements here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=588.msg10635#msg10635).

Regards,
Janne
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 27, 2010, 09:56:50 pm
It is described in Linear Technology AN-47, also see my measurements here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=588.msg10635#msg10635).
Regards,
Janne
any chance of buying this item from you? or elsewhere? ;)
i'm thinking if there is a fast pulser like this that we can set the pulse interval, voltage level (cmos, ttl, 1-12V etc), and even the rise time configurable through a rotating knob maybe, that will be handy to test something, not just rigol. but not really sure if its practical or not, just my thought.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Hideki on October 27, 2010, 10:16:19 pm
I'm happy to report yet another successful 100MHz upgrade on a HW:58 2.04 SP1 device.

Awesome!

Thank you all.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on October 27, 2010, 11:32:00 pm
Quote
It is described in Linear Technology AN-47, also see my measurements here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=588.msg10635#msg10635).

Regards,
Janne
WOW! your's pulser PCB is an ultra pro setup very nice,mine is made very cheap.... :-X


Here the schematics of the pulser i've used (taken from the net) assembled with less than 2$,the only problem is to find the right voltage to start the 2n2369 to avalanche,mine started at 88v but vary from sample to sample.
The 50Ohm resistor on the emitter should be made by 4 resistor in parallel to lower the inductance,on the input i've used 5pF.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ceut on October 28, 2010, 02:50:28 am
Happy story for me too  ;)
I have juste received my DS1052E, and after using the great Shafri software, I'm a happy DS1102E user/Hardware rev. 58.
Thanks for everyone on this topic who have given information !
 :)

The only thing is that I can't test if all is ok at very high frequency because I have nothing for that :D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AlphZeta on October 29, 2010, 11:44:44 pm
It looks like the success rate is back on the right track again.
Title: Another sucessful update with HW58...
Post by: 8008 on October 30, 2010, 05:09:45 am
I can also report a successful upgrade to HW58 with latest firmware 02.04.01.02, scope was bought on ebay two weeks ago...
Have no tool to check the smallest rise times, but everything seems ok...

I did it with OpenSuse Linux, serial line cable 1:1 with only pins 2,3,5 connected, cutecom terminal emulator and oktada as hex file editor.
The first self calibration after conversion attempt freezed the scope :-( but after switch on and off and trying self calibration again, it worked successful.

Dennis
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ht_vale on October 30, 2010, 08:34:10 am
thanks guys! upgrade successful without any issue.. serial > 1239****

bye
Vale
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on October 31, 2010, 05:18:53 am
Tested the pulse generator with a DIY 1K resistor probe directly attached on 50ohm cox terminated here the results!! :o

Equivalent time averaged 16X,real time 16X,and difference between standard probe on ch1 and direct connection on ch2
I think the  supplied probes are limiting the scope
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: EECrAZY on October 31, 2010, 07:20:13 am
successfully updated 1052e to 1102e, rise time went down to < 3ns. HW version 58, downgraded firmware, then hacked, then upgraded to 02.04.01.02 and recalibrated.
Many many thanks to everyone who contributed to this hack
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mvh on October 31, 2010, 08:38:52 am
Like many others, I've a good HW ver 58 hack to report. I haven't got anything but a signal generator to measure at the moment, but I haven't seen any adverse effects from the hack. Good stuff!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: velikigrizli on November 05, 2010, 03:49:12 am
Hi all!

My scope arrived with this version : 02.04.00.01 HW 57

I did press CH1 twice CH2 Twice and math, and got this version info : Some pages before I read that it may alter flash memory directly? Many people used this method for HW version identification. Does this apply only if you press other button combination, and should I be worried here ?

Anyone here who made above version modification. Usually HW 57 ships with 02.04.00.03

After modification can I upgrade to 02.04.00.03 ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 05, 2010, 04:40:47 am
velikigrizli,

You can only harm your Rigol configuration if you press other buttons after you have entered the "Ch1/Ch2/Math" information page.
If you just exit the page following the on screen instructions you will be fine.

To the best of my knowledge, the Rigol firmware is backwards compatible so you can use the latest available. I personally would use the version known to work with HW57 which is 02.04.00.03. The later 2.04 SP1 firmware should also work but I have not heard of anyone using it with HW57.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: just on November 05, 2010, 04:58:43 am
Hi all!

My scope arrived with this version : 02.04.00.01 HW 57

I did press CH1 twice CH2 Twice and math, and got this version info : Some pages before I read that it may alter flash memory directly? Many people used this method for HW version identification. Does this apply only if you press other button combination, and should I be worried here ?

Anyone here who made above version modification. Usually HW 57 ships with 02.04.00.03

After modification can I upgrade to 02.04.00.03 ?

Only dimlow reported problems entering that mode, but he already had some problems with the serial number before. Maybe there are more hidden menus ...

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg3665#msg3665 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg3665#msg3665)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: velikigrizli on November 05, 2010, 05:26:43 am
Hmm, now I have to decide to proceed with hack or not. Currently dont have money for another scope if something goes wrong :D

So far did anyone reported bricked scope HW 57 using USB hack so far ? what about voltage levels and abolute calbiration levels ? for example voltage source of 10.2V will be 10.2V after hack ? and with same waveform :D

I did used Ultrascope BEFORE firmware change, and I also used demoIDN on original 02.04 firmware to check firmware version "*IDN?"

After "IDN"  command I closed the program , scope stopped responding, some letters were written in top right side of screen. I turn off , turn on ,it works fine.

Now can this procudure above mess up "original" procedure.

Whne I decide to "hack" I will flash to 02.02 SP2_patched, follow instructions from first page, than flash to 02.04.00.03_original


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 05, 2010, 05:52:09 am
Hmm, now I have to decide to proceed with hack or not. Currently dont have money for another scope if something goes wrong :D
now thats the thought! if i were u, i wont make the hack, unless...
1) be prepared to scrap it if its broken, or bother drieg a call.
2) really in need of 100MHz bandwidth, and be prepared to do the (1) ;)
the feeling of having a good 50MHz scope is alot better than having a 100MHz hacked broken. just from experience ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: velikigrizli on November 05, 2010, 06:00:28 am
Hmm, now I have to decide to proceed with hack or not. Currently dont have money for another scope if something goes wrong :D
now thats the thought! if i were u, i wont make the hack, unless...
1) be prepared to scrap it if its broken, or bother drieg a call.
2) really in need of 100MHz bandwidth, and be prepared to do the (1) ;)
the feeling of having a good 50MHz scope is alot better than having a 100MHz hacked broken. just from experience ;)


But man from other thematics can repar the flash rom. reprogram it manually

So ok, so far I will store all this data for future use
what about hardware modification , removing varicap diode ? min software resoluton will be 5nS, but what about actuall rise fall time limit , how much will it change ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 05, 2010, 06:19:00 am
So ok, so far I will store all this data for future use
what about hardware modification , removing varicap diode ? min software resoluton will be 5nS, but what about actuall rise fall time limit , how much will it change ?
man! you should run the whole pages of this thread and another companion rigol1052e thread. that varicap diode is obsolete, but another way of doing it, physically.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 05, 2010, 07:59:55 am
velikigrizli,

I know exactly where you are in your thoughts about the hack.... I've been there too.

My 2 cents worth.... I had concerns about hacking my scope because it has the  HW58 motherboard and challenging 2.04 SP1 firmware. You are fortunate to have the earlier hardware version but there is always the risk of the scope being corrupted in a firmware flash operation. The common sense rule is that if a firmware is fit for purpose and you cannot afford to brick your scope, don't mess with flash upgrades and hacks.

If you can afford to lose the scope and are adventurous.... go for it ! and enjoy the improved performance. Many users will find the 50MHz+ bandwidth plenty for daily work though. What I am saying is don't mess with your scope if you are happy with it's standard spec performance. You can always hack it later if the NEED arises.

Regarding the hardware mod..... it is well documented in this forum but is not for those unfamiliar with working on pretty small SMD components. You would need to remove an SMD capacitor and this provides the 100MHz+ bandwidth but loses the 20MHz LPF facility in the process. I was about to carry out this modification as I knew that I could both do it and, if necessary, reverse it at a later date without the risk of bricking the scope. For me it was the lowest risk strategy..... until 2.04 SP1 firmware got into the public domain  ;D

At that point I followed the well documented path of many others and, with some trepidation, carried out the firmware downgrade, hacked the scope and then upgraded to 2.04 SP1. All was well and I breathed a sigh of relief. For me it was well worth the effort and risk. I have found no disadvantages to the upgrade hack and calibration remains excellent.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on November 05, 2010, 10:13:25 am


Only dimlow reported problems entering that mode, but he already had some problems with the serial number before. Maybe there are more hidden menus ...

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg3665#msg3665 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg3665#msg3665)


Ah yes, but I pressed every button! I was curious.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: velikigrizli on November 05, 2010, 08:20:49 pm


Only dimlow reported problems entering that mode, but he already had some problems with the serial number before. Maybe there are more hidden menus ...

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg3665#msg3665 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg3665#msg3665)


Ah yes, but I pressed every button! I was curious.

lol

and you messed up just serial number ? After that did scope work correctly? And have you managed to hack it to 100mhz version ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: velikigrizli on November 05, 2010, 08:25:05 pm


Regarding the hardware mod..... it is well documented in this forum but is not for those unfamiliar with working on pretty small SMD components. You would need to remove an SMD capacitor and this provides the 100MHz+ bandwidth but loses the 20MHz LPF facility in the process. I was about to carry out this modification as I knew that I could both do it and, if necessary, reverse it at a later date without the risk of bricking the scope. For me it was the lowest risk strategy..... until 2.04 SP1 firmware got into the public domain  ;D



So scope has at the imput 20Mhz LPF ? and all "for example sine" signals above that frequency have amplitude drop. But if we remove that filter, what is disadvantage of not having this LPF?
Hardware mod seems much safer, if you don't physically  destroy something it will work fine every time..

what is the reason why currently it is not possible to modify original firmware? For example change what ever you want(for those familiar with programming)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on November 06, 2010, 12:41:17 am

lol

and you messed up just serial number ? After that did scope work correctly? And have you managed to hack it to 100mhz version ?
Yep Scope still worked, well it was already broken from a previous upgrade, but drieg fixed it and now its 100%
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimson on November 12, 2010, 04:38:24 am
I got ds1052e oscilloscope with firmware 2.05. Is it possible convert it to 100 MHz version?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 12, 2010, 09:13:25 am
Dimson,

2.05 sounds to be a new firmware version so you probably won't get a straight yes or no answer to your question.

You need to check your hardware version to see if it's higher than HW58. If you have HW58 still you should be OK as that is the hardware that I upgraded. My 1052E runs firmware 2.04 SP1 and that is available via this thread if you look back through the messages.
If Rigol have written firmware 2.05 to actively block the hack method you will be stuck and likely unable to carry out the hack until some clever person identifies a work around. That will become obvious if/when you insert the firmware downgrade USB stick. It will either go into firmware change mode or not.

Before carrying out the upgrade, I recommend that you read all of this thread to understand the procedure and risk that you are taking.

The method of checking hardware version is also detailed in this thread.

Good Luck !
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ceut on November 12, 2010, 05:54:21 pm
I got ds1052e oscilloscope with firmware 2.05. Is it possible convert it to 100 MHz version?


Just after I order mine on DX, the DS1052E has coming out of stock, so I think that now they certainly received new one too.

Which Hardware Revision have you got?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Helix70 on November 12, 2010, 10:50:35 pm
Hi all, new user here, what a great source of info.

Thanks to everyone involved in creating this guide. I have owned my 1052E for 3 days, now it is an 1102E. It was 2.04Sp1 HW58, downgraded to the patched 2.02SP2, ran shafri's excellent utility, upgraded firmware back to 2.04SP1 and recalibrated. Excellent! I was a little nervous, but it went according to plan. Thanks again guys!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 12, 2010, 11:07:19 pm
I haven't heard of anyone bricking their Rigol recently....it looks as though the current upgrade process via USB is a lot more reliable and robust than the early days of hacking the unit. Long may that situation continue. I have to admit that I was very nervous about flashing down to a firmware version that I knew was not 100% compatible with Hardware version 58....but I did as this guide said and all was well ... phew ! As others have advised in the past, there is always a risk of an error during a firmware flash. I would also advise that after downgrading to the FW 2.02SP2, use Shafri's utility and don't 'play' with your scope whilst running this old firmware. i.e. don't do a self calibrate whilst running a possibly incompatible firmware. Return the DSO to it's correct firmware as soon as possible. The risk of unexpected negative consequences due to running old firmware is then limited.

Good luck to all those who choose this upgrade path....... I have not regretted it but have chosen not to go for the 150MHz hack yet.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on November 12, 2010, 11:51:01 pm
I got ds1052e oscilloscope with firmware 2.05. Is it possible convert it to 100 MHz version?


adapting the "hacked" firmware to downgrade from 2.05 should not be an issue (by this i mean, if it doesn't work it should not brick your scope),
if this is a new hardware revision I would wait until someone can provide the 2.05 firmware (might take a while), so that you can do the hack and go back to 2.05 afterwards
if it's not a new hardware version ( HW58 ), then you can try and go to 2.04Sp1 but of course there is always a risk
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on November 13, 2010, 12:05:08 am
Here is the 2.02SP2 "hack" firmware patched to appear as 02.08.02.

the MD5 of DS1000EUpdate.RGL is d819839edf239fa98ee8197e8a1c097d
the MD5 of DS1000DUpdate.RGL is 03685177c85d619bea382c154aab2d3a

edit: I get "Your attachment couldn't be saved. This might happen because it took too long to upload or the file is bigger than the server will allow." when trying to attach it, , it's to big :) i'll upload it somewhere else

Edit2: it's here: http://rapidshare.com/files/430375313/02.02.SP2_patched_to_02.08.02.zip (http://rapidshare.com/files/430375313/02.02.SP2_patched_to_02.08.02.zip)

If someone confirms this works on 2.0.5 scopes, i'll add it to the first page
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimson on November 14, 2010, 08:15:26 am
I checked the version of Hardware, is HW58.
I think we should wait until version 2.05 can be downloaded (in case something goes wrong)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 14, 2010, 08:49:20 am
Dimson,

Please be aware that RigolNA were expecting to have 2.04SP1 for download.... but it has not happened to date and only an older version is on their web site. The 2.04SP1 that is now in the public domain was released to a member of this forum who very kindly shared it with the community (Hero status  :D). FW 2.04SP1 was written to meet the revised requirements of the newly released HW58 and did not contain significant updates except for a minor Pictbridge patch. HW58 should operate correctly with 2.04 SP1 but I understand your caution.... few of us can afford to brick our new scope. If anyone decides to take the risk and upgrade a DS1053E that was supplied with FW 2.05, you will know if 2.04 SP1 works as that will be the FW that will have to be reloaded.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: swperk on November 15, 2010, 02:11:54 pm
Hello all,

I just got my 1052E on Friday. It's h/w version 58 and (unfortunately) f/w version 2.05. No matter what I try, I can't get the scope to recognize that there is a firmware file on the USB stick even when using the 2.02.SP2 firmware file that was altered to appear to be 2.08.02. I assume this means there's some additional file checking going on with the 2.05 firmware. I'm anxiously awaiting a workable solution so I can upgrade my bandwidth!

Regards,
Stan
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 15, 2010, 07:31:13 pm
Hi Swperk,

Have you tested the USB memory stick to see if the Rigol DS1052E will save waveform files and reload from it?
It has been found that not all USB memory sticks will work with the DS1052E so you may just have an incompatability problem ? It is worth trying another brand of memory stick. I used a really old Sandisk Cruzer 128Mb ....yes 128Mb  :D

 
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 15, 2010, 08:02:39 pm
It has been found that not all USB memory sticks will work with the DS1042E so you may just have an incompatability problem ? It is worth trying another brand of memory stick. I used a really old Sandisk Cruzer 128Mb ....yes 128Mb  :D
yes i agree, rigol do not accept all usb pendrive, i also need to use older version of usb card reader to be able for rigol to read/write, even that i need several attempt, it always says "usb device asserted" but nothing happened. i need to wait until it says "usb install successful" or read the firmware to upgrade after several attempt (plug unplug) IIRC.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: accepttheownage on November 16, 2010, 02:31:30 pm
Got my oscilloscope in today (off of ebay), unfortunately also HW:58 and version:2.05 :(
That sucks, I got this oscilloscope with the hopes of turning it into 100mhz right away. Mine will not detect the modified firmware on the USB stick either (it does install the USB stick successfully). Hope someone finds a workaround soon!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 16, 2010, 04:54:28 pm
they are (rigol) working hard to get their 100MHz model sold... i think.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 16, 2010, 08:46:09 pm
There is always the possibility that the modified firmware file that is currently 2.08.02, falls outside an acceptable range. Owners of a DS1052E will need to provide the experts on this forum with more detail. The FW2.05 full version number (02.05.XX) should be available on the hardware information page. The hacked 2.02SP2 firmware could then be modified to a version one LSB higher to see if that works.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on November 17, 2010, 02:33:11 am
There is always the possibility that the modified firmware file that is currentky 2.08.02, falls outside an acceptable range. Owners of a DS1052E will need to provide the experts on this forum with more detail. The FW2.05 full version number (02.05.XX) should be available on the hardware information page. The hacked 2.02SP2 firmware could then be modified to a version one LSB higher to see if that works.

The "hack" is nothing more than an edit.
You can "play around" your self.
I can recommend  xvi32 found here  (http://www.chmaas.handshake.de/delphi/freeware/xvi32/xvi32.htm) as an excellent free hex editor if you run windows.

(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=4511)
simply click on the right panel, change for example the 8 to 5 and the 02 follwing to anything you like and save

It is however more likley Rigol changed the firware to not look for this string anymore but an other (masked/encrypted) part of the firware update file. I assume they also read this thread :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: accepttheownage on November 17, 2010, 06:00:16 am
Any way to make a firmware dump from the oscilloscope? There are a bunch of headers inside, probably a JTAG header as well. Either that or just wait until Rigol releases update 02.05, IF they will  >:(
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 17, 2010, 07:04:24 am
in the same manner they try to block the hack... is there any way to block outsiders from viewing this thread? i think not :( :-\
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 17, 2010, 10:05:04 am
I bought a Rigol DS1052E from DX a month ago (it have only arrived this week). I took the risk of doing the hack. It was originally with FW 2.02 SP2. I have directly done the hack manually via serial port using hyperterminal. I believe that in my first try I might have sent an incorrect character along with the valid strings (maybe some copy+paste mistake).

I rebooted the scope after the hack, and upon checking System Info, I found that the model Nr was missing. Checking the time base, I realized that it had not changed (5 ns minimum).

Repeated the process (the *IDN? command replied with something like "Rigol Technologies,,,"), and after rebooting again, it seemed ok. The model number would appear (DS1152E), along with the rest of the information. The timebase could now be set down to 2 ns.

As everything seemed ok, I performed an upgrade to the version 2.04 from Rigol's website. Performed an auto-calibration, and everything was apparently ok. However as I move the time base from 200 ns to 500 ns I notice an dramatic increase in noise. Adjusting the vertical amplifier does not change the amplitude of the signal (even at 10 v/div it has the same width). Adjusting the vertical position varies the amplitude slightly. I measured the frequency and confirmed to be 100 MHz.

In this forum I found that some people experienced the same problem with hardware version 58. As I went to check the HW version (using 2x CH 1, 2 x CH2, MATH key presses), to my surprise I found that this field was blank (like you can see on the photo below).

Now I am not sure what is the best step to solve this problem.

The original serial number starts by DS1ED12391xxxx. Is it likely that this is HW version 58? Could the potential copy+paste mistake have screwed up calibration data?

lteixeira
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 17, 2010, 10:31:23 am
lteixeira

Two things...

1) Your Rigol must be older stock if it came with FW2.02 installed, so it is unlikely to be hardware 57 or 58 as they came with FW2.04.

2) You have probably corrupted an area of the configuration memory in your efforts to upgrade. This has occurred to others when using RS232 and manual editing. The USB method using Shafri's tools is safer. Your best chance of repairing your scope lies with a 'Good Samaritan' named Drieg. You will find him hosting a topic on this forum discussing the repair of  'Bricked' Rigol scopes. Drieg has the knowledge to advise you on what rectification action is required. Look here:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1379.0 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1379.0)

Good Luck
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 17, 2010, 10:57:30 am
Humm tough luck... I am thinking how much it would be worth risking to try firmware 02.04.01.02 instead, considering the behaviour of the oscilloscope with people who had taken this solution. There is no correlation between the hardware version and the serial number? I believe my serial nr is greater than that of some who report to have HW version 58. Other than the noise issue all other aspects are ok. Voltages and frequency measurements are consistent with the reality.

lteixeira
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 17, 2010, 12:50:54 pm
I'm providing the simple tool with awareness that there is danger by using RS232 and probably even with USB if given the wrong command. and i've experience the data corruption (thanx again to Drieg for the fix) before this thread is fully established. And now there is still people want to experience what i did. teixeluis, now you are on the boat that i was. Maybe we can share experience later ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on November 17, 2010, 12:57:32 pm
It must be then really old stock, seen mine is bought in may 2010 and is HW 57 and came with 02.04.00 IIRC.

If it's really came with 02.02 then I would not mess around more and kindly ask Drieg if he has time to help you  8)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 17, 2010, 08:24:57 pm
lteixeira

Having re-read your message, you do appear to be suffering similar problems to those experienced by users using pre 2.04SP1 firmware on a HW58 unit. There are however some issues that cannot be expalined by your firmware version change....

To answer your serial number question... I do not know the sequencing but logically a higher number is a newer unit.

My serial number on a HW58 unit bought September 2010 is: DS1ED123409XXX

As yours is stated as DS1ED12391XXXX it should be a later unit than mine, BUT your serial number doesn't look right to me. I would expect DS1ED123491XXX or DS1ED1234091XX. Please check the serial number on the rear of your units case to confirm that the displayed serial number tallies in the utility screen. The serial number can be accidentally changed during the hack process and using hyperterminal is fraught with danger as typo's are not tolerated well by the Rigol. If you have got a HW57/58 unit you have to wonder how a later unit could turn up with an early firmware  :-[  there is always the possibility that someone had already tried to hack it using FW2.02SP2 and discovered the firmware incompatibility issue that exists. This is all total conjecture of course, based on no facts. Are you convinced that your unit was actually brand new ? Your picture shows quite a few ‘power on’ cycles…does that tally with how many times you believe you may have turned the unit on ?

Drieg is the expert but you could consider installing firmware 2.04SP1 which should be backwardly compatible to all previous hardware versions. Please remember there will always be a risk though so don’t blame me if it goes wrong.
The fact that you have no HW number in the utility screen is a concern because it could be a sign of data corruption in the system configuration files. Drieg may be able to recover that situation for you as well.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 17, 2010, 09:10:49 pm
In order to assist owners in identifying the hardware Version number of their DS1052E (when it has been corrupted in config) I looked for possible differences that are present on my HW58 unit. I have already documented the fact that my unit no longer has the HV supply for the LCD CCFL backlight and I believe LEDs are now used. I cannot advise when this change occurred but with the assistance of other owners, their hardware version, partial serial number and approx delivery date, we may be able to work out roughly when the change occurred. I have just done a test and confirmed that the missing HV section can be seen through the rear vents of the DSO without any disassembly. I used an LED torch and my camera in 'close-up' mode pressed against the rear air vents at the top right of the rear panel.
I'll start the data collection process by stating that I have a HW58 DS1052E Serial No. DS1ED123409XXX delivered Sept 2010. No HV supply fitted.

Picture attached.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 17, 2010, 10:17:04 pm
Hello Aurora,

I confirm that the serial is consistent with serial in the back of the unit (apart from the 'D' replaced by a 'B' of course). My oscilloscope
arrived last week from DealExtreme, after nearly a month of waiting for stock to arrive plus shipping time (about 2 weeks). The DSO seemed
perfectly brand new without any marks of wear. However at DX they seemed to have only rushed to do the shipping after I put some
pressure. There was in fact about 1 week lag between the point they shipped my pending order, and the time they updated the site with new
stock of Rigol's (as such I would not rule out the possibility that they might have shipped a unit they could have lying around). Once I have
the opportunity I will check for the backlight HV supply.

lteixeira

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: rr100 on November 18, 2010, 05:42:30 pm
Just to confirm here: DS1ED12361* serial, delivered about 1-2 weeks ago (don't know how old was, probably not old). Worked with the instructions from 1st post (USB, used the windows program). HW58 of course, no HV supply.
Many thanks for the upgrade, early Christmas present :-).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: reqwired on November 19, 2010, 02:16:05 am
 DS1ED12351xxxx rec'd last week,  factory calibration shows early September 2.04 sp1  no HV    Thanks

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: M84AB1 on November 19, 2010, 02:47:10 am
I recently bought my Rigol DS1052E off eBay about two weeks ago and it came with FW 2.04 SP1 installed. I therefore assume that it is HW 58 model. I have just successfully hacked it to the 100Mhz model and I could not be happier. The guide was easy to follow and went without a glitch. My scope now reads the model number as DS1102E and the time base can be set all the way down to 2ns. I can safely say that my Rigol is not showing any abnormalities and functions as it did prior to the hack. There is no noise or any issues at all.

I have built a 50Mhz Oscillator and I recorded images of the signal including its Peak-Peak values before and after the hack. It measured Vpp @ 4.8V prior to hack and 6Vpp after. I will post pictures soon.

All in all, once again many thanks to the guy(s) who have made this guide and therefore hack possible :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: altaic on November 19, 2010, 04:06:43 am
Hi all, many thanks for everyone's work in this thread and others.

Three days ago I ordered the DS1052E from Amazon (Amazon Prime; $4 next day shipping), and yesterday I hacked it! The unit reported itself as HW57 (serial DS1ED122XXXXXX) and came with 00.02.04.00.03 firmware, which necessitated using a patched version of 00.02.02.02.00 (although I didn't try unpatched, since it reportedly fails). To transfer the firmware, I used a new Sandisk Cruzer 2GB USB stick (which I tested first by capturing and storing a waveform, then checking it on my computer). To overwrite the model and serial number, I used Shafri's utility (running under Parallels Desktop 6.0 on Mac OS X 10.6.5) with the USB cable that came with the unit. After the hack, I upgraded to 00.02.04.01.02 (2.04 SP1) and then performed a self calibration. It definitely appears to have worked, although I don't have precision signal generators and such to quantitatively analyze it (hence the budget oscope).

Regarding the HV supply, it appears (by peaking in the rear right vent with a keychain flashlight) that mine also does not have one, so the search for the difference between 57 and 58 continues. If it'd facilitate further low cost enhancement of my oscope, I may be persuaded to pull it apart and take pics at some point... I hadn't planned to, but I'm kind of curious, myself.

Cheers and thanks again,
Will
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: murks007 on November 19, 2010, 05:57:43 am
Hey Guys!

Another successfull hack done at 00.02.04.01.02 (HW58).
2ns timebase is avalable now.
Measured the risetime of an ATMEGA8 Output- Pin.
See attached pictures.

Not realy a "big" difference, but maybe the ATMEGA is not faster :)

Thank's a lot to all people who were involved to this thread!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on November 19, 2010, 12:12:22 pm
So, has anybody else upmodded (tm) their DS1102E to a DS1152E? I'm wondering if this is the next big thing and how worthy is it?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on November 19, 2010, 07:46:54 pm
I bought a Rigol DS1052E from DX a month ago (it have only arrived this week). I took the risk of doing the hack. It was originally with FW 2.02 SP2.
The original serial number starts by DS1ED12391xxxx. Is it likely that this is HW version 58? Could the potential copy+paste mistake have screwed up calibration data?
lteixeira
Also mine is a 12391xxx and is one of the latest with hw 58 and fw2.04sp1, so like said by Aurora probably someone tried to hack your's scope before you......
IMHO  try to upgrade to 2.04sp1 and redo the self calibration.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on November 19, 2010, 08:04:38 pm
So, has anybody else upmodded (tm) their DS1102E to a DS1152E? I'm wondering if this is the next big thing and how worthy is it?
With a 300mhz Agilent probe my modded 1052/1102 goes well beyond 100mhz with a rise time of 1.4nS in eqmode and 1.6nS in real time!!  ;D
The  standard probe is limiting a bit.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tyblu on November 20, 2010, 12:01:50 am
So, has anybody else upmodded (tm) their DS1102E to a DS1152E? I'm wondering if this is the next big thing and how worthy is it?
With a 300mhz Agilent probe my modded 1052/1102 goes well beyond 100mhz with a rise time of 1.4nS in eqmode and 1.6nS in real time!!  ;D
The  standard probe is limiting a bit.
While it may draw on the screen an impressive rise time -- looks like 0.35/1.6ns=219MHz -- it is still physically sampling at 100MHz. With 300MHz probes, this gives you a 3dB error of 75MHz sine waves, so you could theoretically measure the voltage of a 26MHz square wave signal with a rise time of 13.45ns, though the rise time may actually be slimmer in which case the measurements are no longer valid. I usually just assume that my DSO setup can't read better than 25% of the system cutoff to allow for a bit of processing delay, too (though it may not exist).
actual: t_rise_min_actual = 0.35/f_probe + 0.35/f_scope --> f_osc_measure_max = 26 MHz
my assumption: t_rise_min_tyblu = 0.25/f_probe + 0.25/f_scope --> f_osc_measure_max = 19 MHz
Fortunately we are often only interested in whether or not the harmonics or transients exist and their width, not their voltage at every instant in time. I'll have to see how slim of a pulse the trigger can catch, as that would be useful info. Note that I, if I used 300MHz probes and the 100MHz Rigol, couldn't measure the exact voltage of pulses with a width of less than 76ns, but I can certainly measure its width to within an accuracy of 2/100MHz=20ns. If you can safely assume the form of what you're measuring, your measurements get even better (import the data into matlab and do regression using the waveform you have in mind).

<edit> You know, I've gained this viewpoint from a good understanding of signal processing and white papers (Tek, Agilent, etc.), but I just spotted a big flaw in it: a DSO's sampling frequency is not necessarily its cutoff frequency, as it is in an analog 'scope. It certainly is for sine waves, but for a single pulse? I'm not sure. It requires a bit more thought (and digital signal sampling error and jitter analysis -- woohoo!).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: scrat on November 20, 2010, 01:49:31 am
I don't understand much of your calculation...

Why do you assume a 25% delay? Acquisition on the Rigol (single channel, normal memor, max sampling freq) is at 1GHz. There isn't any 25% discount. The time for processing is taken from one triggering shot to the next (triggered is ignored for a certain time window).
A 100MHz bandwidth means that a sine wave at 100MHz is attenuated by maximum 3dB, giving 70.7% of the original amplitude (and a phase delay). On the Rigol, many people noticed a -3dB bandwidth over 100MHz (in fact the specs are "at least").
A well compensated 300MHz probe should introduce no more than 0.46dB (10%) attenuation at 100MHz (  1/(1+(f/fprobe)^2)  ).
Since attenuation of the probe and of the analog signal path inside the scope are in series, they add in dB, so you get 3.46dB (36.4%) in the worst case at 100MHz.
To properly test the scope, one should have a signal generator and a much higher bandwidth scope, all at 50Ohm input. A square wave can be useful only if it is bandwidth limited at a frequency much higher than the scope is. Otherwise, one can guess bandwidth from a post-processing, but a mimimum high frequency component must be present, to test on it.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on November 20, 2010, 05:58:44 am
I don't understand much of your calculation...

+1

To my knowledge bw=0.35:Tr 

http://www.tek.com/Measurement/scopes/selection/risetime.html (http://www.tek.com/Measurement/scopes/selection/risetime.html)
http://www.i9t.net/fast-pulse/fast-pulse.html (http://www.i9t.net/fast-pulse/fast-pulse.html)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: reqwired on November 20, 2010, 10:53:10 am
Quote
I bring a present to all HW ver 58 owners firmware version 02.04.01.02 (2.04 SP1). I've attached the firmware below and confirm it fixes the noise issue after self-calibration.

Firmware attached, confirmed to work with HW 58 scope can't say much else.

EDIT:

Hashes for DS1000EUpdate.RGL

CRC3: 3B44DEE5
MD5: BCF73565352391935F3A9651D30776EE
SHA-1: B2DDB481F8A71CF7037C93AF9C45CEBBE97C71A2

When I download the file then check with Hashcalc I get different numbers. I've read the past history and downloaded and checked the other firmware files with Hashcalc and gotten matching numbers. I'm just clicking the the link to download ,am I missing a step, or ??  Suggestions?   Thanks
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: d0ss on November 20, 2010, 11:12:57 am
Quote
I bring a present to all HW ver 58 owners firmware version 02.04.01.02 (2.04 SP1). I've attached the firmware below and confirm it fixes the noise issue after self-calibration.

Firmware attached, confirmed to work with HW 58 scope can't say much else.

EDIT:

Hashes for DS1000EUpdate.RGL

CRC3: 3B44DEE5
MD5: BCF73565352391935F3A9651D30776EE
SHA-1: B2DDB481F8A71CF7037C93AF9C45CEBBE97C71A2

When I download the file then check with Hashcalc I get different numbers. I've read the past history and downloaded and checked the other firmware files with Hashcalc and gotten matching numbers. I'm just clicking the the link to download ,am I missing a step, or ??  Suggestions?   Thanks

I've just downloaded and checked the file has the correct hashes, my only guess is that you calculating the hash for the 7zip file.

The file needs extracting first, I recommend 7-zip http://www.7-zip.org/. (http://www.7-zip.org/.)

Hashes for the 204SP1.7z are as follows;

CRC32: EAE60568
MD5: DC5DF0AF15431465C945353BC1EA830E
SHA-1: 88A31204DAA1A62B27C2DB6CAF3397B5ECC90958
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: M84AB1 on November 20, 2010, 12:59:10 pm
Quote
I bring a present to all HW ver 58 owners firmware version 02.04.01.02 (2.04 SP1). I've attached the firmware below and confirm it fixes the noise issue after self-calibration.

Firmware attached, confirmed to work with HW 58 scope can't say much else.

EDIT:

Hashes for DS1000EUpdate.RGL

CRC3: 3B44DEE5
MD5: BCF73565352391935F3A9651D30776EE
SHA-1: B2DDB481F8A71CF7037C93AF9C45CEBBE97C71A2

When I download the file then check with Hashcalc I get different numbers. I've read the past history and downloaded and checked the other firmware files with Hashcalc and gotten matching numbers. I'm just clicking the the link to download ,am I missing a step, or ??  Suggestions?   Thanks

I have already successfully hacked my scope with that firmware file (DS1000EUpdate.RGL) and when I read your post I went again to double check the file and it indeed showed different numbers. I then closed hashcalc, reloaded the firmware and then it was showing the correct numbers. I have now closed and reloaded the same firmware file that I used for the hack about 10-20 times and the numbers always match. I am curious why that one time the numbers didn't match. Maybe a glitch in the hashcalc software?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: reqwired on November 20, 2010, 03:25:18 pm
Quote
The file needs extracting first, I recommend 7-zip http://www.7-zip.org/. (http://www.7-zip.org/.)

Hashes for the 204SP1.7z are as follows;

CRC32: EAE60568
MD5: DC5DF0AF15431465C945353BC1EA830E
SHA-1: 88A31204DAA1A62B27C2DB6CAF3397B5ECC90958

Thats got to be where I messed up, these are the same hash numbers I'm getting.  Thanks,Thanks
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: EricF on November 21, 2010, 04:58:30 am
Thanks people, another successful upgrade of a hardware 58 model with 2.04SP1 due to the help from this thread. Just received it yesterday from Riko instruments via Amazon. Downgraded to 2.02SP2_patched and then used shafri's program. Upgraded back to 2.04SP1. Process was a piece of cake, took about 30 minutes only because I was extremely methodical and anal about the whole thing. Really appreciate it, and highly recommend it to anyone considering it.

Thanks again!

EricF

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 21, 2010, 12:26:00 pm
Just to confirm that I have a scope originally shipped with firmware 2.02 SP2 (probably hacked by the supplier - dealextreme) and having serial Nr DS1ED12391xxxx, here is a photo from its back, and a photo from the SMPS which apparently doesn't have the HV supply (did the best I could to shoot it through the 3 mm hole).

lteixeira
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Zyvek on November 21, 2010, 03:40:48 pm
Another successful upgrade, I received mine just yesterday from Amazon/Riko_Instruments

Firmware was 2.04 and HW=57.  SNDS1ED122XXXXXX

The Rigol wont fully replace my Tektronix 2467B, but I think it may allow me to retire the Tek2430A.

I only have a 50Mhz pulse generator (Philips PM5715) so more testing is in order..

Thanks for the info, this is fun stuff!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: akisnas on November 22, 2010, 07:09:24 am
Hi everybode, i'm trying to download this
DS1052_to_DS1102.zip : the DS1052_to_DS1102.zip is available here on Rapidshare (9Mb)
but without success can anyone help me?
"Rapidshare server is full of quotes"
I 've found the FW VERSION 00.02.04.01.02
Rigol Technologies,DS1052E,DS1ED123xxxxx,00.02.04.01.02
How to find the HW version of the scope?
Kind Regards
 
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: eldis on November 22, 2010, 09:07:33 pm
Hi, I also recently bought DS1052E with firmware 2.05
Seller says, that 2.04 is discontinued. Any progress with modifying this firmware release?
Is there anything I can do to help? perhaps some JTAG dump.. HW is 58
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on November 23, 2010, 08:36:00 am
Tested the zip file, works fine, must be rapidshare overload or so.

Added to the first post
* warning that currently 02.05 scopes cannot be hacked
* the way to see your HW version with a nice big fat warning to not mess around.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: reqwired on November 23, 2010, 12:50:00 pm
Quote
Hi everybode, i'm trying to download this
DS1052_to_DS1102.zip : the DS1052_to_DS1102.zip is available here on Rapidshare (9Mb)
but without success can anyone help me?
I had trouble with the zip file also, I was using older web browser,after I installed firefox and had high speed access it downloaded fine.   Just a thought.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: akisnas on November 23, 2010, 06:36:01 pm
My scope is updated, wow nice, sweet success. :-*
Oh yes the radip server was very busy. :D
Very nice tutorial for dummies :)
Thanks for all.
Kind Regards
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: M84AB1 on November 23, 2010, 11:15:02 pm
Added to the first post
* warning that currently 02.05 scopes cannot be hacked

But didn't one of the forum users report that whilst his firmware was 02.05, the HW was actually 58. By now, we know that HW 58 scopes also came with FW 2.04 SP1 (like mine). So why cant 02.05 downgrade to 2.02 SP2, perform the hack and then upgrade to 2.04 SP1 instead of 2.05?

Unless I missed something along the lines that there is no "patched" FW to make the scope think it is higher and prompt the downgrade?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 24, 2010, 05:43:59 am
From what I have read here, it would appear that Rigol have changed the way in which the DS1052E recognises a valid firmware update package. The old method was easily fooled by changing the version number in the update package header. That technique no longer appears to work on FW2.05. The missing knowledge at the moment is how to get the DS1052E into firware update mode in order to accept 2.02SP2. I agree that FW2.05 scopes with HW58 should accept FW2.04SP1 but only after the above problem has been solved.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: accepttheownage on November 24, 2010, 06:07:07 am
Added to the first post
* warning that currently 02.05 scopes cannot be hacked

But didn't one of the forum users report that whilst his firmware was 02.05, the HW was actually 58. By now, we know that HW 58 scopes also came with FW 2.04 SP1 (like mine). So why cant 02.05 downgrade to 2.02 SP2, perform the hack and then upgrade to 2.04 SP1 instead of 2.05?

Unless I missed something along the lines that there is no "patched" FW to make the scope think it is higher and prompt the downgrade?

My 02.05 scope will not recognize any of the older hacked firmware. Either we somehow dump the new firmware, find out what the scope is looking for in the firmware, or wait until Rigol releases the new firmware, which probably won't happen
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AgeyevAV Russia on November 24, 2010, 05:02:47 pm
Good time of the day :) What hear version HW if firmware 02.05 &
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Zyvek on November 24, 2010, 05:25:52 pm
After the hack don't forget to upgrade your probes as well.

When comparing the upgraded Rigol to a bunch of older Tektronix scopes (2236, 2340A, 2445 & 2467B) I noticed a bit more detail using a Tex P6138 vs the included Rigol probes:

The 2467B image is just for reference.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 24, 2010, 07:49:31 pm
When comparing the upgraded Rigol to a bunch of older Tektronix scopes (2236, 2340A, 2445 & 2467B) I noticed a bit more detail using a Tex P6138 vs the included Rigol probes:

Can you clarify which Rigol probes you received with your scope please. Mine were RP2200's that claim to be 200MHz bandwidth.

Cheers
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 24, 2010, 09:12:00 pm
Quote
Mine were RP2200's that claim to be 200MHz bandwidth.

According to the datasheet from my RP2200, these are rated to 150 MHz at 10 x attenuation.

lteixeira
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 24, 2010, 09:36:14 pm
After the hack don't forget to upgrade your probes as well.
When comparing the upgraded Rigol to a bunch of older Tektronix scopes (2236, 2340A, 2445 & 2467B) I noticed a bit more detail using a Tex P6138 vs the included Rigol probes:
good info! new aspect to tinker.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on November 25, 2010, 12:01:22 am
Quote
Mine were RP2200's that claim to be 200MHz bandwidth.
According to the datasheet from my RP2200, these are rated to 150 MHz at 10 x attenuation.

Interesting.... it appears that even rigol don't know the specification of their RP2200 probes. They are advertised as 150MHz or 200MHz bandwidth depending upon where you buy. A Google search on Rigol RP2200 can make for confusing reading  :D

Take a look here:
http://www.aidetek.com/New_products_info/Photo/RIGOL/RP2200_Manual.pdf (http://www.aidetek.com/New_products_info/Photo/RIGOL/RP2200_Manual.pdf)

YET in the Rigol Catalogue (Page 6) they are clearly shown as 150MHz. The 200MHz spec may just be an error but this doesn't inspire much confidence in the specs. ;)

http://www.rlx.sk/pdf/RIGOL2010No3.pdf (http://www.rlx.sk/pdf/RIGOL2010No3.pdf)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 25, 2010, 12:27:47 am
Yes. Here is the spec of my RP2200.


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Zyvek on November 25, 2010, 06:54:13 am
When comparing the upgraded Rigol to a bunch of older Tektronix scopes (2236, 2340A, 2445 & 2467B) I noticed a bit more detail using a Tex P6138 vs the included Rigol probes:

Can you clarify which Rigol probes you received with your scope please. Mine were RP2200's that claim to be 200MHz bandwidth.

Cheers

Sure thing, they are the RP2200 model.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 25, 2010, 11:14:12 am
One interesting feature in a custom firmware would be to allow direct selection of the bandwidth limit from the same CHx > BW Limit command. Instead of just enabling the 20 MHz filter, one could switch between the several hardware filters: 20 MHz, 50 MHz, 100 MHz or the entire 150 MHz vertical BW (if it is in fact the true maximum BW).

lteixeira
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AgeyevAV Russia on November 25, 2010, 06:09:41 pm
there is combination CH1 CH2 MATH, signifies there is combination of the forced renovation firmware  8)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: drieg on November 25, 2010, 08:14:12 pm
One interesting feature in a custom firmware would be to allow direct selection of the bandwidth limit from the same CHx > BW Limit command. Instead of just enabling the 20 MHz filter, one could switch between the several hardware filters: 20 MHz, 50 MHz, 100 MHz or the entire 150 MHz vertical BW (if it is in fact the true maximum BW).

lteixeira

You're not the only one to whom this crossed his mind...  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on November 26, 2010, 04:57:58 am
Interesting.... it appears that even rigol don't know the specification of their RP2200 probes. They are advertised as 150MHz or 200MHz bandwidth depending upon where you buy.
Also mine are rated as 150Mhz bw,tested with the famous pulse gen  attached to the Rigol probe with the bnc adapter  show an overall trise of 1,56nS Vs 1,36nS with a 300Mhz Agilent probe,the scope trise tested at bnc input is 1,28nS for reference(all Equ-time,averaged), so the Rigol probes should be near 200Mhz specification. ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: CalcProgrammer1 on November 26, 2010, 08:18:21 am
I just got a DS1052E from Aidetek on eBay, unfortunately it is also a FW2.05 model and is locked out.  Hopefully a fix will be found quickly as I bought the stupid thing because I wanted to unlock it.  It is a nice scope though, but I don't want it to be crippled by poor firmware forever.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Zyvek on November 26, 2010, 10:46:15 am
Comparison of the Rigol RP2200 probe vs Tektronix 6138 probe @ 50Mhz:

Rigol used was hacked to 100Mhz.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 26, 2010, 10:58:12 am
Why didn't you capture the screenshots from the Rigol directly? I can see you even had a USB flash attached.
But all in all I think is hard to have a better performance with that probe. I had pretty much the same result
at a similar frequency.

lteixeira
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Zyvek on November 26, 2010, 11:16:30 am
Why didn't you capture the screenshots from the Rigol directly? I can see you even had a USB flash attached.
But all in all I think is hard to have a better performance with that probe. I had pretty much the same result
at a similar frequency.

lteixeira

Agreed.  I know which probe I'll be using.  I'm curious to see if the 300Mhz bargain probes found on eBay would be a good step up from the Rigol probe s.  The P6138 is nice but hard to find a complete one cheaply.

Since I had to use a digital camera to take picture of the CRO scopes it was just easier to keep my work-flow constant.  Part habit (none of my old scopes have screen capture) and part laziness. :-)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 26, 2010, 12:04:06 pm
Zyvek, how much BW is setup in your Rigol, 100MHz?

lteixeira
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Zyvek on November 26, 2010, 01:21:14 pm
Zyvek, how much BW is setup in your Rigol, 100MHz?

lteixeira

Yup, 100Mhz!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on November 27, 2010, 02:17:11 am
Comparison of the Rigol RP2200 probe vs Tektronix 6138 probe @ 50Mhz:
If you can, take also a screenshot of the waveform aquired via direct coax cable connection 50Ohm terminated, use it as reference waveform to compare against probe input,ringing and other probe related artifacts should be identifiables.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 27, 2010, 02:38:41 am
Zyvek, how much BW is setup in your Rigol, 100MHz?

lteixeira

Yup, 100Mhz!

It would be interesting to make the same test with your Tektronix 6138 probe, but with the scope modded to 150 Mhz. This would give us a clear idea
of how close to the reality the 150 MHz mode is.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on November 27, 2010, 03:23:11 am
throwing some info about the serial number bit, and the functions offered from the DS1000[DE} models and which have the 2ns time base option and the 50MHz BW limit......

looking the the hex part of the serial number as binary, we see possible config option/switches....



111101100    the DS1052D    SN: DS1ECxxx
111101101    the DS1052E    SN: DS1EDxxx
111101011    the DS1102E    SN: DS1EBxxx
111101010    the DS1102D    SN: DS1EAxxx
      ^^^
      ||+------------------------------------------------------------------+
      |+--------------------------------+                                  |
      |                                 |                 set turns off the LA menu options maybe ?
      |                  turns on the 2ns time option
turns on the limit BW to 50MHz



so, try using the leading part of the serial number as DS1EFxxx and of course the rest of your
own serial number,  you will end up with a 50MHz BW limit, but able to select the 2ns time option.

dont think the LA option will do anything more than enable some menu's without the hardware present

of course the DS1000E to DS1000D firmwares are different... so maybe the D firmware and the LA bit
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 27, 2010, 03:40:09 am
darrylp: might be coincidence but it sure makes sense. I'm pretty sure there is(are) forum user(s) with enough knowledge of the firmware to be able to confirm or deny this.

lteixeira
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: teixeluis on November 27, 2010, 03:45:12 am
BTW, does the DS1152E Model has a different S/N prefix? Given the existence of this third model, one bit is not enough to setup the BW.

lteixeira
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on November 27, 2010, 03:54:30 am
the 150MHz model to the 100MHz model, I expect are purely down to the factory test of the sample signal they test.   as the sampling circuit has a switch to limit to 20MHz,   all models have that option.... the 1052 models get auto limited to the 50MHz filter , and the 1102 and I expect the 1152 models get the 2ns time base.

anyone way to try turning a DS1052E into a 2ns time base 1052 ?  ie with the 50MHz limit BW still set,  and then go to the 1102, with the 50MHz limit tuerned off, but dont enable the 2ns option of the time base ?

would confirm things better...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: accepttheownage on November 27, 2010, 04:24:44 pm
I just got a DS1052E from Aidetek on eBay, unfortunately it is also a FW2.05 model and is locked out.  Hopefully a fix will be found quickly as I bought the stupid thing because I wanted to unlock it.  It is a nice scope though, but I don't want it to be crippled by poor firmware forever.


Haha, same here. Bought mine from Aidetek with the intention of upgrading it as soon as I got it. So here's a warning for potential buyers: Look elsewhere if you want a hackable DS1052E!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: accepttheownage on November 30, 2010, 05:58:57 am
I've been following these threads on a Chinese forum to see if they're getting anywhere with hacking firmware 02.05:

http://218.16.124.207/bbs/bbs_content.jsp?bbs_sn=4250575&bbs_page_no=1&search_mode=1&search_text=ds1052e&bbs_id=3053 (http://218.16.124.207/bbs/bbs_content.jsp?bbs_sn=4250575&bbs_page_no=1&search_mode=1&search_text=ds1052e&bbs_id=3053)
http://218.16.124.207/bbs/bbs_content.jsp?bbs_sn=4416640&bbs_page_no=1&search_mode=1&search_text=ds1052e&bbs_id=3053 (http://218.16.124.207/bbs/bbs_content.jsp?bbs_sn=4416640&bbs_page_no=1&search_mode=1&search_text=ds1052e&bbs_id=3053)

Google translate doesn't do that well of a job translating everything. Anyone fluent in Chinese able to see if they've figured out anything?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: updatelee on November 30, 2010, 12:09:47 pm
I just got a DS1052E from Aidetek on eBay, unfortunately it is also a FW2.05 model and is locked out.  Hopefully a fix will be found quickly as I bought the stupid thing because I wanted to unlock it.  It is a nice scope though, but I don't want it to be crippled by poor firmware forever.


Haha, same here. Bought mine from Aidetek with the intention of upgrading it as soon as I got it. So here's a warning for potential buyers: Look elsewhere if you want a hackable DS1052E!

wow I guess I got lucky, I bought mine from Aidetek at the end of October and it had 2.04 and Ive since upgraded it to 100mhz. Good to know.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Crippled on December 05, 2010, 01:21:46 am
What happens when you try to hexedit the firmware version of the 02.02 firmware to, for example 2.06 ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AgeyevAV Russia on December 06, 2010, 04:19:56 pm
What happens when you try to hexedit the firmware version of the 02.02 firmware to, for example 2.06 ?

Tried no result, necessary to read microprogram and read the name of the renovation.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AlphZeta on December 07, 2010, 02:48:35 am
I am wondering where I could get hold of a copy of the latest 2.05 firmware... it'll be interesting to see what has changed...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Crippled on December 07, 2010, 05:16:16 am
Many times it is possible to download firmware via rs232 or very often something can be done during booting.
What kind of microcontroller is on board?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Jendem on December 11, 2010, 09:26:38 am
Another successfully DS1052E to DS1102E update using the USB tool performed. Had some problems getting the scope to talk to the computer (Win 7 x64) and Ultrascope, but it magically started working after several restarts  :) 
I ordered my scope from DX in August, got it last week!

It had software version 02.04 SP1 and hardware version 58.
Downgraded to 02.02.02.00 and updated to 02.04.01.02. No noise problems at all  :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Crippled on December 12, 2010, 09:43:31 pm
Wow, you had to wait 4-5 months? At what status was your package at according to the post tracking site and was it shipped with china post or HK post?
I ordered mine december 1st and is going through China Post, I guess I'll get a 02.05 .
Wish I discovered this earlier.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Nifty on December 17, 2010, 02:18:54 am
My DS1052E ordered from DX on 05-Nov-2010, HW revision is 58, FW is 02.05

Any chance to hack it?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: apulanta on December 17, 2010, 07:23:56 am
I hack a few days ago your DS1052E SW: 00.02.04 SP1 (00.02.04.01.02)
I used to produce a Chinese version of the hack version 02.02.SP2  (http://cache.ourdev.cn/bbs_upload887235/files_32/ourdev_580400LKA27W.rar) first and then the USB port conversion DS1102E finally installed my this original file: 02.04 (http://cache.ourdev.cn/bbs_upload887235/files_32/ourdev_580402KHHFTQ.rar)
Hack the device is working perfectly.

-apulanta  :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: OldSkull on December 20, 2010, 06:17:05 am
I just bought one of these DS1052E form Dealextreme. Shipping time was ridiculously long: more than 30 days - ordered and paid on 8 XI, I only wonder how long it would take now to receive anything from them.
Back to the point: my DS1052 has 2.05 firmware, so i can't hack it, but...
Look at these:

(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6664/probe1xcomp.jpg)(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7863/probe10xcomp.jpg)
First 1x, second 10x probe. Probes compensated. Input signal is from probe compensator in front of the osciloscope. It seems that it's rise time is much better than shown on movies on youtube and are exact like 100MHz version. Would someone check his times both with hacked and unhacked scope?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on December 20, 2010, 06:44:29 am
I think you're confusing microseconds with nanoseconds. I wouldn't expect the probe compensation output to be a good test for scope bandwidth, it's only designed to be fast enough so the probe input capacitance (eg. 20pF) has a lower impedance than the input resistance (10Mohm), and is designed to be used at specific settings (usually indicated in the manual).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: OldSkull on December 20, 2010, 06:48:50 am
Sorry, my mistake. Hope someone will find a way to hack 2.05.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ultrasounder on December 22, 2010, 06:11:53 am
Hi All,
I recently purchased the ds1052E from DealExtreme and got mine after a month wait. And l and behold, the Firmware version is 02.05 and HW ver 58. According to polossatik it is not possible to downgrade from 02.05 to 02.02 SP1.  I just spoke a Technical Rep at the RigolNA office and he tells me that it is possible to overwrite the 02.05 with the 02.04 SP1(which i found on their website http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/)). Now, if i am able to accomplish that, I should be able to downgrade from 02.04 SP1 to 02.02 SP1, do the hack and upgrade back to 02.04SP1 right??? Can somebody please confirm this  before i go ahead and do the hack.

 Also, another thing that i became aware of is, that you get a one year replacement warranty on any of their scopes if and only if you either buy it from their authorized distributor or RigolNA. If you buy it from DealExtreme you are on your own.

Thanks for this excellent procedure. Happy Holidays!

Ultrasounder
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Bored@Work on December 22, 2010, 08:22:06 am
Also, another thing that i became aware of is, that you get a one year replacement warranty on any of their scopes if and only if you either buy it from their authorized distributor or RigolNA. If you buy it from DealExtreme you are on your own
Yes, Rigol hates customers who don't pay the inflated official prices.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: updatelee on December 22, 2010, 10:31:40 am
Why would rigol care how much a distributor sells their products for. It doesn't effect rigol in the slightest. Rigol should only care how much they sell the item to the distributor for.

I make a loaf of bread for $1 and sell it to kwicky mart for $2 they sell it for $3. I sell that same loaf for $2 to walmart and they sell it for $2.10

I couldn't care less how much retail outlet sells my item for, doesn't effect my bottom-line.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on December 22, 2010, 10:41:48 am
According to polossatik it is not possible to downgrade from 02.05 to 02.02 SP1. 

Actually it is confirmed by several people the old "downgrade by editing the firmware version to a higher versio" trick did not work anymore.
I never tried it, seen I don't have the 02.05 firmware

I just spoke a Technical Rep at the RigolNA office and he tells me that it is possible to overwrite the 02.05 with the 02.04 SP1

Somehow I doubt you can downgrade, but if you would be willing to try this then that would be great.

(which i found on their website http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/)).

It is also here (as listed in the first post) http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19908#msg19908 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19908#msg19908)

Now, if i am able to accomplish that, I should be able to downgrade from 02.04 SP1 to 02.02 SP1, do the hack and upgrade back to 02.04SP1 right??? Can somebody please confirm this  before i go ahead and do the hack.

yep, that should be no problem as such, the actual problem with 02.05 (for now) is that it will not downgrade to any lower version.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ultrasounder on December 23, 2010, 03:18:11 am
I got a verbal confirmation from Drieg that the 02.05 firmware downgrade is not possible.

So case shut. Atleast till Rigol releases the "stateside" 02.05. Then one of the hacker gods can take a peek in to the flash dump or whatever and figure out what is going on. But if they have disabled the firmware upgrade via USB stick, then how would upgrade to 02.06 when that gets available? Anyone?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: OldSkull on December 23, 2010, 03:25:20 am
Maybe it's just checking not only version number written in ASCII, but also some other binary values. In any case, we have to wait till they release 2.05 firmware for upgrading on their page and probably any newer patch.
Is there still a possibility to unlock higher bandwith by changin some resistor or something?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ultrasounder on December 23, 2010, 04:22:10 am
Ditto. I was wondering about the same thing. They still got to be bandlimiting the scope with some H/W feature. But i dont want to hijack this thread by suggesting something to that effect. FOr now i am okay with 50MHz, but pretty soon i will be needing a 100MHz bandwith for looking at FPGA signals. ANd, maybe as a Christmas/New Year present Rigol will release the 02.05 Firmware for us to take it apart.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on December 23, 2010, 07:14:30 am
100MHz Bandwidth Hardware mod is detailed here:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.195 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.195)

It's worth reading the whole thread leading up to that page.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 24, 2010, 01:55:57 am
Hi, guys! Got mine today from DX. Sent on the 13th. But, of course, FW is 00.02.05 and HW rev is 58.
Still no way to hack the FW? Has someone managed to produce a dump yet? So, I guess, now Rigol has to use the JTAG interface to set the model number...
Oh, and the noise is almost deafening  >:( I'd read different reviews that mentioned that noise level was quite high, but I could never imagine that it's like a wind tunnel blower...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ultrasounder on December 24, 2010, 02:20:52 am
Can you please be specific?Which noise are you talking about? The fan noise, or ????
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 24, 2010, 02:34:39 am
Yep, the fan noise. Well, in fact it's not the fan per se I guess, it's some kind of aerodynamical noise produced by air being drawn through the holes. I'm pretty sure it's nothing abnormal. Just a design "feature."
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on December 24, 2010, 03:16:28 am
Yep, the fan noise. Well, in fact it's not the fan per se I guess, it's some kind of aerodynamical noise produced by air being drawn through the holes. I'm pretty sure it's nothing abnormal. Just a design "feature."

Phunk's "Rigol 1052e Fan Replacement" http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1945.0 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1945.0) might then be of interest to you
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 24, 2010, 03:33:09 am
Thanks, polossatik. In fact, I've already seen that thread. I've been running the oscilloscope continuously for three hours now, and the air coming from the fan is barely warm. I wonder if it is really necessary to have such a strong airflow.
But what preoccupies me most now is the apparent impossibility of "upgrading" this oscilloscope. I actually bought it hoping it would be possible (though I already knew of the 00.02.05 FW), but was sort of hoping anyway. If at least we had a FW dump...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ultrasounder on December 24, 2010, 03:54:54 am
I had an interesting email exchange with teh GM of RigolNA. Portions of that are quoted here;
"You are free to try the downgrade, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. Here in Ohio we haven't seen firmware 2.05 or the release notes for it, so I can't tell you if 2.04 is compatible or not.
"It is possible we might have a little more info in the future when we release 2.05 stateside, but I still think your best bet is with dealextreme at this time."
"Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help. I would give you a copy of 2.05 if I had it, but I haven't seen anything on it yet."
I had a post followup with a technical rep. He kept saying that i could always try downgrading, but he is not sure if that would break the scope as there is not much different between the 02.04SP1 and the 02.05. So, i guess lying low patiently and pounce on the 02.05 F/W is the best approach in my opinion.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 24, 2010, 04:22:20 am
I was thinking, maybe now it won't ever be possible to upgrade the firmware at all. Maybe only "authorized" repair centers and distributors will be able to do it (via some obscure keypresses, a super-hidden RS232 command, or whatnot), and those authorized repair centers will be bound by some kind of a non-disclosure agreement...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tsaavik on December 25, 2010, 09:55:13 pm
Merry xmas!
  Just got my Rigol DS1052E from Amazon. Was on an emotional roller coaster as I clicked through the 23 pages of the thread realizing at first that I had almost bricked my 2.04.01.02 Hardversion:58 by just jumping in and doing it, and that it would not be upgradeable :( Then a few pages later I discovered it WOULD upgrade! A few hours later I have a shiny new DS1102E!

Thanks to Polossatik for the thread, and Shafri for fat finger proof easy USB tool!

p.s. The following paragraph can be misleading:
Quote
Older news: According to forum user Drieg Rigol DID change the hardware and the new HardWare version "58" (and later) is supported by firmware version 02.04 SP1 only (not earlier). See the The Dark Side of the Rigol Hack -- Bricked Scope & How to Fix it... Thread However the 00.02.04.01.02 ( 02.04 SP1 ) is now available here and updating back to this version seams to fix the issue.

I read this as: "If you downgrade you will brick it, but you can get it back by re-upgrading to 2.04sp1". I realize that a truly 'bricked' scope wouldn't upgrade, but people throw the term around fairly loosely now a days. If you read the first few pages of that thread things seem pretty bleak.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tsaavik on December 25, 2010, 10:06:35 pm
I bring a present to all HW ver 58 owners firmware version 02.04.01.02 (2.04 SP1). I've attached the firmware below and confirm it fixes the noise issue after self-calibration.

Firmware attached, confirmed to work with HW 58 scope can't say much else.

There seems to be no link attached to this post, I need this firmware as well since I am suffering from the same calibration issue, would you mind posting it again?

Sorry to necro an older reply, but this confused me tonight as well. The problem is that you can not see file attachments unless you are logged into the forum. Would be nice if the forum software displayed the filename but told you that when you clicked on it, but oh well :D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tsaavik on December 25, 2010, 10:30:26 pm
Anyone ever notice that the newer pictures (no longer says "ultra zoom") of the DS1052E show 100MHZ on the front sticker?

http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ds1052e/)  (click view larger image).

Photoshop slip-up, or silent nod to the hacker community? YOU make the call! :D

Update: Whoops, In my excitement of comparing the pics i posted the wrong link!! (Link above updated to:
http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ds1052e/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ds1052e/)
That is a DS1052E with 100MHZ on it's sticker.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Psi on December 26, 2010, 12:06:32 am
says DS1102E on it
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: beerhunter on December 26, 2010, 03:22:41 am
Anyone ever notice that the newer pictures (no longer says "ultra zoom") of the DS1052E show 100MHZ on the front sticker?

http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/)  (click view larger image).

Photoshop slip-up, or silent nod to the hacker community? YOU make the call! :D



I emailed Rigol NA about getting that neat Ultra Zoom sticker and they said due to "legal" reasons they had to discontinue it. Damn shame.....
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: scrat on December 26, 2010, 05:16:54 am
Got my Rigol yesterday, a kind of fate's Christmas present...
I ordered it on October, 20th, was a quite long waiting.
My luck, it has 2.04SP1 FW on board!
However, I'm confident in the fact someone will one day or another find a hack for the 2.05 release, although it could be more difficult to achieve.

Merry Christmas to all you,
Sandro
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tsaavik on December 26, 2010, 05:34:19 am
says DS1102E on it

Your right, I posted the wrong link: http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ds1052e/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ds1052e/)
Check it out, that's a DS1052e with a 100MHZ sticker. I updated my previous post.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cs.dk on December 26, 2010, 09:22:03 am
Check it out, that's a DS1052e with a 100MHZ sticker. I updated my previous post.

Just in case, that Rigol "forgots" :D

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6429978/Others/Rigol.jpg)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 28, 2010, 03:28:59 am
Hi, guys!
So, here's my (though somewhat belated) Christmas present to all you 2.05-FW scope owners.  ;D It is at last possible to downgrade it! The procedure is the same as described in the beginning of the thread, except you should use the attached file instead of the 2.02 SP2 found elsewhere in the forum.
It should work with 2.05 but not with 2.05 SP1 (if there are any of you that have that firmware already).
I did it on my own scope and haven't found any glitches after the "upgrade."
Enjoy!  8)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ultrasounder on December 28, 2010, 05:21:34 am
Bravo!. That is a "killer" hack, killerwhale. I have a 02.05F/W, 58 H/W version. I was wondering what F/W version this patch of yours would downgrade my scope to? Also, were you able to verify that you can actually verify that the hack worked by measuring the rise time/fall time. Awaiting your confirmation with bated breath!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Gallymimus on December 28, 2010, 05:30:44 am
Just got mine today from Saelig.com, they give a free bag and 5% discount if you mention the president Alan Lowne.

HW ver 58, firmware 2.04!

hack worked fine (did not verify rise time or anything yet though).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 28, 2010, 06:51:43 am
@ultrasounder:
The hack downgrades to 2.02 SP2, which I think is the least common denominator to be able to change the model number. After doing that, I upgraded to 2.04 SP1 as per the present guide. Actually, afterwards I went ahead and upgraded it to 2.05 (though I would not necessarily advise it).
I didn't measure rise times, but the timebase goes down to 2 ns now.

P.S. You may downgrade it to whatever version you want by taking the first 21 bytes from the attached file and overwriting the header of the file you intend to downgrade to.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on December 28, 2010, 08:39:29 am
Hi Killerwhale,

Nice hack on the header :-) My DSO was 2.04SP1 upgraded some time ago to 100MHz so I was already OK, but I know the owners of FW2.05 scopes will be very pleased with your work. You mention FW2.05 being reloaded on your scope. Are you able to make that FW available for those who wish to reload it after upgrade ?

Cheers ! :-)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ultrasounder on December 28, 2010, 08:43:24 am
Congrats!. I am at work right now so, I just cant wait to go try it on my scope when i get back home today. How were you able to upgrade to 02.05 from 02.04 SP1.? I dont see the 02.05 firmware out on their website. Btw, there isnt a big difference between 02.04 SP1 and 02.05(anecdotal infromation from RigolNA rep-Houssam).

Thanks for your good work. I will keep you posted once i am sucessful the quest.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on December 28, 2010, 09:11:04 am
cool,
can someone with a 2.05 (no SP1) system (before trying to downgrade please :) ) provide me with
1) a screen shot of the version info of the scope (optional, but would be nice)
2) the full version string ( you can use shafry's tool (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727#msg19727) for that. should be somthing like 02.05.00.02 or so

i'll the rewrite/update the guide (need to rewrite it anyway, looks it's getting confusing)


Edit: random nonexisting bonus points for somone who can figure out what mapping is used to make from the string " 02.05.01.00 " (= 30 32 2E 30 35 2E 30 31 2E 30 30 in hex) - or something similar like 02050100 - the 11 bytes result " 82 85 84 88 C3 7B 47 92 39 C8 7E "

Btw, there isnt a big difference between 02.04 SP1 and 02.05(anecdotal infromation from RigolNA rep-Houssam).

I don't have a change log , but a quick look in winMerge shows quite some diff between 02.05.01.00 and 02.04.01.02 , I would say more then between 02.04.01.02 and 02.04.00.03
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 28, 2010, 12:59:35 pm
Hi, Aurora. Here's the 02.05 SP1 (00.02.05.01.00) file for those who need it.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: silent3xe on December 28, 2010, 04:26:16 pm
Thanks KillerWhale.

The 2.05 downgrade, mod,  and 2.05 SP1 upgrade worked on my HW58 2.05 DS1052E. I followed the guide on the first page using your files and shafri's program and everything went flawlessly.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 28, 2010, 05:39:33 pm
Great! Good to hear from someone else who succeeded!  :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ultrasounder on December 28, 2010, 05:56:14 pm
Kudos to KillerWhale! I just got done with the hack myself. That was the longest 20 minutes of my life. Thank you so very much for everyone in this thread/forum for sharing the tribal knowledge and the secret sauce. Using Shafri's tool makes the 1102E upgrade a breeze. Decided to stay at 02.04 SP1 released by d0ss  until more information is available on the 02.05. Intend to perform a full-up compare with the TDS 100 MHz at work tomorrow.

Great job guys!.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on December 29, 2010, 03:20:51 am
Quote
So, here's my (though somewhat belated) Christmas present to all you 2.05-FW scope owners.   It is at last possible to downgrade it!

This is GREAT news since my new scope that came from Deal Excel on Xmas eve has 2.05. I want to make sure I have all the steps right since their have been some changes to the original instructions.

1. Install hash calc, VISA drivers and Ultrascope. Verify that ultra scope can see the unmodified scope.
2. Downgrade the scope with this new 2.05 downgrade file. Does the MD hash still equal the one in the guide on page 1?
3. Use usbtool OR Shafri's tool to make the changes to the scope.
4. Upgrade the scope back to 02.04 SP1 using the version posted by d0ss.

Are these essentially the right steps?


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: irsirius on December 29, 2010, 04:01:39 am
I can also confirm that killerwales downgrade file works fine.
Same procedure as described by silent3X: The 2.05 downgrade, mod,  and 2.05 SP1.
The mod was 2 mouseclicks thanks to shafri's tool.

Quote
2. Downgrade the scope with this new 2.05 downgrade file. Does the MD hash still equal the one in the guide on page 1?

I don't think the file will have the same checksum.
The MD5-hash of the downgrade file is "1fa740d1e2914651d96b96f9ff01dfc6" (it worked with this file).

Thanks everyone for you efford. I received my DS1052E yesterday and was a little disappointed that the is "no way"
to mod FW2.05. Fortunately just 2 hours later the situation had changed  ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ultrasounder on December 29, 2010, 04:56:04 am
Looks like the floodgates have just opened. Thanks to the combined efforts of all the hacker supremos we have on this discussion board.a word of caution for those who bought the ds1052E on DX, according to RigolNA, DX is not an authorized distro. So, the scope is not covered under their "1 year" Mfr warranty.

@twilliams follow the extensive guide by polossatik on page 1. For the upgrade path you could either use the 02.04Sp1 by d0ss(which is what i did) or you could use the latest 02.05Sp1 posted by killerwhale yesterday.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 29, 2010, 05:03:16 am
As for me, I've never even considered this manufacturer's warranty as a viable option should the scope fail. The price being what it is and shipping insured to China representing a considerable portion of the purchase price... Well, you get what you pay for, after all.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Bored@Work on December 29, 2010, 06:05:15 am
according to RigolNA, DX is not an authorized distro. So, the scope is not covered under their "1 year" Mfr warranty.
That isn't new for Rigol. They like to threaten customers who are not buying from the "right" sources with bad things. At one point they were even claiming oscilloscopes not bought from the "right" sources could be fake. Threatening customers is IMHO a rather stupid, braindead concept, but Rigol apparently thinks it works.

I always find it funny when Rigol on the other hand behaves as if they play in the same league as Tektronix, Agilent or LeCroy.  Hey, just because you build some boxes for Agilent doesn't mean you are Agilent. Especially not if your "support" is such a joke.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on December 29, 2010, 08:49:46 am
Another successful 2.05 100mhz hack!.

Took all of about 10 minutes.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: accepttheownage on December 29, 2010, 11:19:53 am
I've downgraded my 2.05 and upgraded back to 2.05 SP1, but I'm having the following issue:
When I set the trigger slope to rise and fall and the oscilloscope triggers it locks up and I have to switch it off and on to get it to work again. Can anyone verify this behavior to see if it's a firmware issue?

NOTE: Before trying this set your sweep to SINGLE and hit FORCE sweep to test it out. DO NOT set the trigger to AUTO or it will lock up immediately and every time on startup, making it very hard to recover from this problem!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on December 29, 2010, 01:21:30 pm
I've downgraded my 2.05 and upgraded back to 2.05 SP1, but I'm having the following issue:
When I set the trigger slope to rise and fall and the oscilloscope triggers it locks up and I have to switch it off and on to get it to work again. Can anyone verify this behavior to see if it's a firmware issue?

NOTE: Before trying this set your sweep to SINGLE and hit FORCE sweep to test it out. DO NOT set the trigger to AUTO or it will lock up immediately and every time on startup, making it very hard to recover from this problem!

I just tested this and it seems to work for me. I did not however do the 2.05sp1 update I stayed with the 2.04sp1.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: accepttheownage on December 29, 2010, 02:00:44 pm
Is there any way I can downgrade from 2.05 SP1 or am I stuck with it?  :(
I'm wondering if it's a firmware issue or if it's related to the hack  ???
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 29, 2010, 04:07:01 pm
@accepttheownage:
I've just checked and I confirm that I have the same issue as you describe.

@all:

Until we find out more about the problem, DO NOT upgrade to 2.05 SP1, remain with 2.04 SP1!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dendennis on December 29, 2010, 08:28:53 pm
Darn it ... I'm in the same boat, literally minutes after installing 2.05 sp1 I see this  :o
Never mind I'm sure someone will crack it.  :P
Out of interest how exactly was the downgrade from 2.05 (non-sp1) resolved?
was it simply a matter of replacing the header ?

Keep up the good work guys
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on December 29, 2010, 11:41:42 pm
Sadly there is the ugly possibility that 2.05SP1 is a modified firmware to suit a later revision of hardware as occurred with 2.04/2.04SP1.

Has anyone tried reinstalling the firmware to see if the header still triggers the update process. I would normally expect it to be possible to load 2.05SP1 over 2.05SP1 as a firmware corruption fix but that isn't to say Rigol think the same. If it is possible then using the latest modified FW2.02SP2 should still work ? You could then intstall 2.04SP1. I believe Killerwhale indicated that this was not possible though so forgive me if I am giving false hope.

As another option I would try incrementing the Hex values on the 2.05SP1 header to see if it can trigger the "new FW revision" Routine. I note that the HEX header no longer translates to ASCII for the revision no. It could just be a HEX/Binary value now or how about Chinese non ASCII characters ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 30, 2010, 09:58:21 am
Hi, Aurora
Has anyone tried reinstalling the firmware to see if the header still triggers the update process.
I have: No go.
As another option I would try incrementing the Hex values on the 2.05SP1 header to see if it can trigger the "new FW revision" Routine.
Did that too: No go.
It seems to me that the first four bytes encode the version and the following bytes are some kind of hash. And you probably have to have both sides correct before update triggers.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on December 30, 2010, 12:31:53 pm
Ok so I reported earlier that I had successfully downgraded my FW 2.05 HWv58 applies the hack and then back to 2.04sp1 as supplied by d0ss.

I MAY have just discovered an issue. With no probes connected I get a fairly straight trace line all the way down to 20mv. With a probe connected I get a considerable amount of "noise" on the trace with no input signal. I have calibrated (several times) and even tried my other probe. Same thing happens on both channels. Is this the "calibration" problem a few were having with older FW's on HW58's? If so I thought the 2.04sp1 fixed it.

I can connect to the calibration terminal and get a good 3v p-p 1khz signal. I also connected a function generator and sent various waveforms with good results.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 30, 2010, 02:43:05 pm
@twilliams: sounds normal to me, just a normal external noise problem. sometime i have that too. but you could explain your problem in more detail, probably with pictures?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on December 31, 2010, 01:07:24 am
Ok so here is what I am seeing after the 2.05 downgrade and back to 2.04 sp1 with HWv58.

Here is the calibration tab off the front of the scope, looks good.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74178/rigol/NewFile0.bmp)

Here is no probe attached at 20mv, little bit of noise but mostly ok
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74178/rigol/NewFile2.bmp)

Here is a probe attached at 20mv, what the heck is that? Is it normal?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74178/rigol/NewFile4.bmp)

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on December 31, 2010, 01:51:47 am
This is normal. If you unzoom it (timebase, I mean), I bet the fundamental frequency would be 50/60 Hz depending on the country you are in.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on December 31, 2010, 02:11:20 am
This is normal. If you unzoom it (timebase, I mean), I bet the fundamental frequency would be 50/60 Hz depending on the country you are in.

Thanks, that's a huge relief. I thought I had broken my less than a week old scope.

When I zoom all the way out I get 62.5hz as the freq and since I live in the U.S. your theory was correct.

Thanks for listening  ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 31, 2010, 05:16:33 am
Ok so here is what I am seeing after the 2.05 downgrade and back to 2.04 sp1 with HWv58.
looks like "Peak Detect Acquisition" is activated.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zesty on January 01, 2011, 12:59:52 pm
Just got mine today from Saelig.com, they give a free bag and 5% discount if you mention the president Alan Lowne.

HW ver 58, firmware 2.04!

hack worked fine (did not verify rise time or anything yet though).

So is this (Saelig.com) one of the better locations in the US to order an upgradeable o-scope?

I see other vendors mentioned, but trying to get the best odds of being able to change the firmware.

Scott

 
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 02, 2011, 09:09:51 am
I've downgraded my 2.05 and upgraded back to 2.05 SP1, but I'm having the following issue:
When I set the trigger slope to rise and fall and the oscilloscope triggers it locks up and I have to switch it off and on to get it to work again. Can anyone verify this behavior to see if it's a firmware issue?

NOTE: Before trying this set your sweep to SINGLE and hit FORCE sweep to test it out. DO NOT set the trigger to AUTO or it will lock up immediately and every time on startup, making it very hard to recover from this problem!

Hi, I've bought a ds1052e a couple of weeks ago, it came with FW2.05. I'm glad there is a method to downgrade these, I was afraid to mess around with mine (I have a warranty:P).

I've just registered to report that, with the original firmware, my unit hangs when the trigger is set to rise and fall. It is NOT because of this mod, it is a bug in 2.05 FW. After I choose rise and fall and it crashes, it hangs everytime I restart the unit, to get out of this loop I have to press the "AUTO" button on startup a couple times until it changes back to rise.

I never did any mod, it is completely stock, any more bugs in modified units to check if it also happens on stock ones?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Bored@Work on January 02, 2011, 09:48:23 am
So with FW20.5 you get two things for the price of one, a broken trigger and more trouble hacking it. Indeed, typical Rigol.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 02, 2011, 01:24:38 pm
First of all, let me add my thanks to all the innovators that have been doggedly pursuing this hack.

I've been following this for a few weeks now, was finally about to buy one when FW 2.05 appeared and now that it's cracked I figure I better pull the trigger.

Is there actually any end-user advantage to the later firmware releases? Bug fixes? Calibration? It sounds like there's no reason to go beyond 1.04 SP1 after the downgrade from 2.05.



Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on January 02, 2011, 07:16:36 pm
I haven't heard yet of any advantage of using anything higher than the 2.04 SP1 firmware on HW 58 scopes. Plus to that, 2.05 and 2.05 SP1 have that nasty trigger bug.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xoom on January 02, 2011, 10:11:58 pm
Im still with 2.02 SP2 and don't see point to go higher FW version.. is any critical differences in 2.02 SP2 and 2.04 FW?

Regards.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fenyvesi on January 02, 2011, 10:36:52 pm
FW 2.05 HWv58 : Success.

Thanks for all the clever and helpful guys who helped all of us to transfer our scopes.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on January 02, 2011, 10:56:40 pm
@xoom:
2.04 SP1 = support for HW 58. That's my understanding.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on January 02, 2011, 11:54:00 pm
According to RigolNA FW2.04SP1 has some minor changes over FW2.04 (non SP1)  for 'housekeeping' and some minor enhancement to the PicBridge functionality.

It was also stated by RigolNA that no major changes in firmware or functionality were expected.

I suppose the old addage, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' applies  :)


 
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 03, 2011, 12:17:04 am
getting the latest firmware (esp without knowing exactly what it does/fix for good) is a... software paradigm. the latest 2.05 FW is meant for... new eevbloggers i think. so we can keep busy... blogging.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: accepttheownage on January 03, 2011, 01:40:31 am
I've downgraded my 2.05 and upgraded back to 2.05 SP1, but I'm having the following issue:
When I set the trigger slope to rise and fall and the oscilloscope triggers it locks up and I have to switch it off and on to get it to work again. Can anyone verify this behavior to see if it's a firmware issue?

NOTE: Before trying this set your sweep to SINGLE and hit FORCE sweep to test it out. DO NOT set the trigger to AUTO or it will lock up immediately and every time on startup, making it very hard to recover from this problem!

Hi, I've bought a ds1052e a couple of weeks ago, it came with FW2.05. I'm glad there is a method to downgrade these, I was afraid to mess around with mine (I have a warranty:P).

I've just registered to report that, with the original firmware, my unit hangs when the trigger is set to rise and fall. It is NOT because of this mod, it is a bug in 2.05 FW. After I choose rise and fall and it crashes, it hangs everytime I restart the unit, to get out of this loop I have to press the "AUTO" button on startup a couple times until it changes back to rise.

I never did any mod, it is completely stock, any more bugs in modified units to check if it also happens on stock ones?

Thanks for sharing. Makes me feel better knowing it's not an issue with the modded firmware, but an issue with 2.05 firmware instead. Sounds like we need to all get onto Rigol about this so that it'll be fixed in a new FW.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gnail on January 03, 2011, 09:25:53 am
I've downgraded my 2.05 and upgraded back to 2.05 SP1, but I'm having the following issue:
When I set the trigger slope to rise and fall and the oscilloscope triggers it locks up and I have to switch it off and on to get it to work again. Can anyone verify this behavior to see if it's a firmware issue?

NOTE: Before trying this set your sweep to SINGLE and hit FORCE sweep to test it out. DO NOT set the trigger to AUTO or it will lock up immediately and every time on startup, making it very hard to recover from this problem!

Hi, I've bought a ds1052e a couple of weeks ago, it came with FW2.05. I'm glad there is a method to downgrade these, I was afraid to mess around with mine (I have a warranty:P).

I've just registered to report that, with the original firmware, my unit hangs when the trigger is set to rise and fall. It is NOT because of this mod, it is a bug in 2.05 FW. After I choose rise and fall and it crashes, it hangs everytime I restart the unit, to get out of this loop I have to press the "AUTO" button on startup a couple times until it changes back to rise.

I never did any mod, it is completely stock, any more bugs in modified units to check if it also happens on stock ones?

I also have a stock DS1052E with FW2.05 and I cannot reproduce this lockup. Mine's perfectly happy if I set trigger to rise and fall (the up and down arrow).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gandalfg8 on January 03, 2011, 01:08:20 pm
I also have a stock DS1052E with FW2.05 and I cannot reproduce this lockup. Mine's perfectly happy if I set trigger to rise and fall (the up and down arrow).

That's exactly what I've experienced, again with a stock DS1052E with FW2.05
The rise and fall triggering works fine for me and I'm able to display alternating measurements of the rise and fall times of the calibration square wave, for example, with no problem.
If I switch the scope off and on again with the signal still attached it just goes back to where it left off.
If I switch back on without the signal attached it just waits in rise/fall mode and starts again as soon as the signal is reapplied.
What I have observed is that after setting this up for either CH1 or CH2, and then switching to the other channel, all I get on the other channel is noise, with or without the cal signal applied, and I have to press the AUTO button to restore a usable trace, at which point I can set up the new channel in the same way if I so choose.
I've certainly not experienced anything that I would describe as a "crash" and as far as I can tell FW2.04SP1 behaves in the same way.

More specific details of the observed problem would be appreciated.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on January 03, 2011, 06:16:29 pm
@gnail, gandalfg8: What's your hardware revision number? Is it HW 58?

@zenith1111: Are you sure your unit didn't come with 2.05 SP1 instead of 2.05? What is your HW revision BTW?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gnail on January 03, 2011, 07:21:21 pm
@gnail, gandalfg8: What's your hardware revision number? Is it HW 58?

Software version: 00.02.05.00.00
DSP: 00.00
FPGA: 02.00
HardVersion:58
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 04, 2011, 04:17:27 am
@gnail, gandalfg8: What's your hardware revision number? Is it HW 58?

@zenith1111: Are you sure your unit didn't come with 2.05 SP1 instead of 2.05? What is your HW revision BTW?

This is my system info screen:

Model:                DS1052E
Power up times:   84
Serial No.            DS1ED125116737
Software version: 00.02.05.01.00
                         DSP:  00.00
                         FPGA:02.00
                         HardVersion:58

Screenshot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocasdaneve/5320723214/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocasdaneve/5320723214/#)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on January 04, 2011, 04:32:29 am
Zenith1111,

You look to have a later version of 2.05 firmware so it would appear that anything later than 02.05.00.00 possibly contains a software bug.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: bsdfox on January 04, 2011, 06:13:46 am
I've downgraded my 2.05 and upgraded back to 2.05 SP1, but I'm having the following issue:
When I set the trigger slope to rise and fall and the oscilloscope triggers it locks up and I have to switch it off and on to get it to work again. Can anyone verify this behavior to see if it's a firmware issue?

NOTE: Before trying this set your sweep to SINGLE and hit FORCE sweep to test it out. DO NOT set the trigger to AUTO or it will lock up immediately and every time on startup, making it very hard to recover from this problem!

Hi, I've bought a ds1052e a couple of weeks ago, it came with FW2.05. I'm glad there is a method to downgrade these, I was afraid to mess around with mine (I have a warranty:P).

I've just registered to report that, with the original firmware, my unit hangs when the trigger is set to rise and fall. It is NOT because of this mod, it is a bug in 2.05 FW. After I choose rise and fall and it crashes, it hangs everytime I restart the unit, to get out of this loop I have to press the "AUTO" button on startup a couple times until it changes back to rise.

I never did any mod, it is completely stock, any more bugs in modified units to check if it also happens on stock ones?

I also have a stock DS1052E with FW2.05 and I cannot reproduce this lockup. Mine's perfectly happy if I set trigger to rise and fall (the up and down arrow).

I also cannot reproduce this issue on a stock HW 58 firmware 2.05 scope
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 04, 2011, 08:30:26 am
Yesterday I've sent an email to Rigol support regarding this. This is probably a software bug, but just in case I will wait for an answer from rigol before trying to do any mod to this unit. I will post here any development.

Also, I am one step away from removing the bloody warranty sticker and replace the cooling fan with a slower/more silent one, the noise is driving me crazy! The thing doesn't even generate any considerable heat and sounds like my xbox 360 :D

A short video of the issue, for those who don't have it to understand (my camera doesn't like fluorescent lighting and doesn't have manual focus control:P):

Rigol DS1052E rise and fall trigger issue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWHK9AqnDvw#)

(am I doing something wrong?)

Edit: my version: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocasdaneve/5320723214/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocasdaneve/5320723214/#)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gandalfg8 on January 04, 2011, 11:46:43 am
@gnail, gandalfg8: What's your hardware revision number? Is it HW 58?

Hardware 58 and Firmware 00.02.05.00.00 at the time.

Now, with thanks to you, running FW 2.04SP1 on my "new" DS1102E:-)

I just noticed my DSP is shown on the sytem info page of my modified 1052 as 02.20 whilst both gnail and Zenith1111 report theirs as 00.00, is this something that changes with the mod?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gandalfg8 on January 04, 2011, 11:52:44 am

(am I doing something wrong?)


Don't think you're doing anything wrong but I certainly didn't see anything like that.
As has been previously suggested it does look like your 2.05 FW is a later version with a bug in it.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 04, 2011, 12:09:47 pm
My first idea was that maybe the firmware was corrupt, but I doubt that they didn't verify the data after programming. But it is weird that there are people with the same exact problem as I do and people with supposedly the same hardware and software that don't have any problems... I don't think they would have made changes to the firmware without changing the version number to track problems.

As gandalf reported, apparently some v58 scopes report a different version of DSP, is there a chance that there actually are different v58 boards, or the same v58 boards with different components?

Still no answer from Rigol. I bet a couple of Rigol engineers are reading this and releasing their evil laughs over the confusion they purposely created  ;D

Well, good night everyone! (It's 1:07 AM here in Portugal)


Edit: Oh.... Now I see what you are talking about... the ARE different... mine is 00.02.05.01.00 and yours is 00.02.05.00.00, sorry, I really need to sleep  :D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: accepttheownage on January 04, 2011, 04:12:13 pm
My first idea was that maybe the firmware was corrupt, but I doubt that they didn't verify the data after programming. But it is weird that there are people with the same exact problem as I do and people with supposedly the same hardware and software that don't have any problems... I don't think they would have made changes to the firmware without changing the version number to track problems.

As gandalf reported, apparently some v58 scopes report a different version of DSP, is there a chance that there actually are different v58 boards, or the same v58 boards with different components?

Still no answer from Rigol. I bet a couple of Rigol engineers are reading this and releasing their evil laughs over the confusion they purposely created  ;D

Well, good night everyone! (It's 1:07 AM here in Portugal)


Edit: Oh.... Now I see what you are talking about... the ARE different... mine is 00.02.05.01.00 and yours is 00.02.05.00.00, sorry, I really need to sleep  :D

Thanks for the video, my oscilloscope does exactly the same thing when I switch the trigger mode!
Only way to get it to boot up without locking up is to mash the run/stop key while it's booting until it pauses (right before it has a chance to auto trigger). My version info is identical to yours. Hopefully Rigol will sort this out soon (unless it's intentional, that is )  :(
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on January 04, 2011, 07:03:42 pm
At first, when the problem was reported, I also thought it might be intentional. But since zenith1111's unit is factory programmed and has 2.05 SP1, I think the real issue is QC at Rigol who released the FW without proper tests having been done. The only big problem is that there is no way yet to downgrade, unless they release a SP2.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: scrat on January 04, 2011, 07:45:16 pm
One could ask Rigol for a way to downgrade, knowing that this will surely solve the problem... ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gandalfg8 on January 04, 2011, 09:37:56 pm
I posted this in topic 1495 the other day, re extending the 1052 to 150MHz, but as that seems like a quiet thread thought it might be worth reposting here in case anyone feels like attempting the 1152 software conversion:-)

(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/gallery/2747_02_01_11_6_15_29.jpeg)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 04, 2011, 09:55:24 pm
I posted this in topic 1495 the other day, re extending the 1052 to 150MHz, but as that seems like a quiet thread thought it might be worth reposting here in case anyone feels like attempting the 1152 software conversion:-)
the problem is... do you really have the 150MHz bandwidth? or just the name? fyi: i was converting my scope to LA (D) version.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 04, 2011, 10:41:25 pm
Rigol's answer was taking too long (sent from www.rigolna.com (http://www.rigolna.com)), so I've sent another message, this time from eu.rigol.com, and the answer was immediate, the problem is that this second time I've forgot to mention my model and serial number ;D

I've just sent a reply with the information they asked, let's see how the problem is solved (I'm betting in a 2.05 SP2).

Edit:
@shafri: Now that would be just plain awesome, if the only thing this needs to perform as a D was the correct firmware and a set of probe connectors soldered to the board :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 04, 2011, 11:23:48 pm
unless they release a SP2.

Where does Rigol post FW updates? I had a look at their site and don't see an obvious link. I did find a link to "DS1000E Update v2 SP2 (1.39 MB)" on the North American site but the file has a modified date of 21/07/2009.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 05, 2011, 12:15:45 am
@shafri: Now that would be just plain awesome, if the only thing this needs to perform as a D was the correct firmware and a set of probe connectors soldered to the board :)
i changed back to original non LA (E) version. changing to D was the reason i got into trouble. D version got additional internal daughterboard, without it changing from E to D is useless, and risking breaking the scope. so i asked gandalf... is it "really" worth changing to 150MHz? if you have proper tool to check, and its confirmed working to 150MHz, then we will have a new era in rigol hack. for that, this discussion should be back to the original 150MHz hack thread, everybody is watching, its just not everybody has the power to do the proper verification, i'm waiting with passion ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 05, 2011, 01:38:28 am
Regarding the logic analyzer, that's not very bad... for the trouble it would take to void the warranty, find and buy the connectors and getting everything to work, I guess I'm better of with one of these:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/open-workbench-logic-sniffer-p-612.html?cPath=174 (http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/open-workbench-logic-sniffer-p-612.html?cPath=174)
I'm just waiting for them to build more, those specs for 50USD is just unbeatable...

Regarding the 150MHz, I'm far from being an expert in analog-to-digital conversion, but from what I know of the ADCs on the ds1000e (and that those may actually be already overclocked), they must be getting pretty close to their limits. Besides, the supplied probes' reported maximum bandwidth is 150MHz, so they may also begin to interfere with the results. If, however, someone gets it working decently at that speed I will definitely thank them and be willing to buy him/her a beer :P

P.S.: Still no answer from Rigol, but I guess it's normal. It's 14:40 here, so it must be around 22:40 in China (I am pretty sure the email I received came from there).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dendennis on January 05, 2011, 08:10:01 am
I asked rigol about the 2.05sp1 issue and here is the reply :-
Quote
_____________________________
Geoff,

thank you for the note. We haven't actually seen 2.05 sp1 here in the U.S. yet, but I have sent your feedback on to the design team and hopefully we can verify and update it quickly.

Regards,

Chris
_____________________________


here's hoping they can solve the issue.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gandalfg8 on January 05, 2011, 08:46:10 am
I posted this in topic 1495 the other day, re extending the 1052 to 150MHz, but as that seems like a quiet thread thought it might be worth reposting here in case anyone feels like attempting the 1152 software conversion:-)
the problem is... do you really have the 150MHz bandwidth? or just the name? fyi: i was converting my scope to LA (D) version.

Hi Shafri, I'm sorry but I don't know.

Whilst searching for information on the 1152 I found a copy of the user manual for the DS1000E-EDU series which covered the DS1062 60MHz version and the DS1152 150MHz version, the screenshot I posted of the system info came from that manual.
I remembered an earlier post mentioning an attempt to convert by switching the name to DS1152E but without having the information to convert the serial number, and a follow up post asking if anyone knew what the appropriate letter would be in the serial number, so thought it worth sharing the information.

I haven't tried it yet myself, thought I would leave that to someone with a bit more experience of these and perhaps better able to recover from any problems.

I wasn't aware of your attempts to convert to the LA version but would imagine that could cause problems due to the lack of appropriate hardware.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gandalfg8 on January 05, 2011, 09:14:19 am
i changed back to original non LA (E) version. changing to D was the reason i got into trouble. D version got additional internal daughterboard, without it changing from E to D is useless, and risking breaking the scope. so i asked gandalf... is it "really" worth changing to 150MHz? if you have proper tool to check, and its confirmed working to 150MHz, then we will have a new era in rigol hack. for that, this discussion should be back to the original 150MHz hack thread, everybody is watching, its just not everybody has the power to do the proper verification, i'm waiting with passion ;)

As per my previous reply, I haven't tried this myself as yet, but will be carrying out some tests on my recent DS1052E to DS1102E conversion shortly.
I'm not sure yet if I'll try this further conversion, that could depend on whether or not some other brave member tries it first :)

I have RF test facilities up to 1GHz and hope to check the actual amplitude vs frequency response of the scope rather than measure rise times.
I'm planning on doing this by using the scope itself just as an indicator, with a direct coax feed and no probes, so that the measured results rely only the calibration of the signal generator.

However, I need to carry out some initial tests to ensure I use a generator that is properly levelled acros the range of test frequencies and to ensure also that there are no obvious problems with impedance matching or my test cables.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 05, 2011, 02:02:53 pm
A Rigol engineer answered and sent me a firmware update. It now reports the software version 00.02.05.01.02

Apparently everything is working now.

If someone with the same problem wants it, I've uploaded the file here:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U8DLHTA2 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U8DLHTA2)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dendennis on January 05, 2011, 03:08:24 pm
cheers everything works lovely now thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on January 05, 2011, 05:54:13 pm
Hi, zenith1111! Thanks for sharing! You apparently had more luck with it than I had.
In fact, I contacted Rigol as soon as the problem appeared but they didn't acknowledge it. They sent me a FW update file (the version information in the header was different from what I'd seen) but it didn't work. So I asked again only to get a reply that the problem cannot be resolved as "there's is no way to downgrade the firmware."   ::) I tried to contact them today but their e-mail servers were rejecting mail... Whatever that means.
At any rate, here's a file I made (as always by copying the header) to downgrade to 2.04 SP1 for those who need it. I downgraded to that version since I don't want to lose the possibility to upgrade/downgrade in the future, should I ever need it. Plus to that, someone has yet to say that there's is an advantage of using 2.05 SPx vs. 2.04 SP1.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 05, 2011, 10:23:46 pm
That sucks... When I contacted Rigol North America I never got a response, then I've sent another message from eu.rigol.com and an engineer answered in less than one day.

Regarding 2.05 vs 2.04, I believe the only new "feature" is the inability to downgrade  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 05, 2011, 10:59:57 pm
At any rate, here's a file I made (as always by copying the header) to downgrade to 2.04 SP1 for those who need it. I downgraded to that version since I don't want to lose the possibility to upgrade/downgrade in the future, should I ever need it.

Any chance you could make a downgrade file for this new version? My unit with 00.02.05.01.02 ignores the one you've posted above...

BTW, I'll do a couple of hours "burn-in" test to see if it fails, if it doesn't I'll just void the warranty to swap the fan for a quieter one, these things appear to be reasonably well made and pretty reliable.

PS: To those who hacked their units to 100MHz: did you notice if it gets hotter? (I guess not, since the hard thing for it to do is the 1GSa/s which the 1052 already does, but...)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on January 06, 2011, 01:31:02 am
I posted this in topic 1495 the other day, re extending the 1052 to 150MHz, but as that seems like a quiet thread thought it might be worth reposting here in case anyone feels like attempting the 1152 software conversion:-)
the problem is... do you really have the 150MHz bandwidth? or just the name? fyi: i was converting my scope to LA (D) version.

Hi Shafri, I'm sorry but I don't know.

Whilst searching for information on the 1152 I found a copy of the user manual for the DS1000E-EDU series which covered the DS1062 60MHz version and the DS1152 150MHz version, the screenshot I posted of the system info came from that manual.
I remembered an earlier post mentioning an attempt to convert by switching the name to DS1152E but without having the information to convert the serial number, and a follow up post asking if anyone knew what the appropriate letter would be in the serial number, so thought it worth sharing the information.

I haven't tried it yet myself, thought I would leave that to someone with a bit more experience of these and perhaps better able to recover from any problems.

I wasn't aware of your attempts to convert to the LA version but would imagine that could cause problems due to the lack of appropriate hardware.




I had posted, what seems to be a logical use of the serial number ( the binary bits of the letter ascii code ) seem to show features being turned on or off.   the F  as the changing part number, would turn on the final bit unused between the 1052 and the 1102 models.

search my posts ( by name )  and you'll see it i'm sure.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gandalfg8 on January 06, 2011, 02:44:46 am

I had posted, what seems to be a logical use of the serial number ( the binary bits of the letter ascii code ) seem to show features being turned on or off.   the F  as the changing part number, would turn on the final bit unused between the 1052 and the 1102 models.

search my posts ( by name )  and you'll see it i'm sure.

I've taken a look at the post you mention and the logic seems reasonable enough but unfortunately, as you point out there, your suggestion indicates that a scope with serial number starting DS1EFxxx should have a 50MHz bandwidth whilst being able to select the 2ns timebase option.

Given that the information showing DS1EFxxx as the serial number sequence for the DS1152E-EDU 150MHz scope came direct from the user manual I suspect there might be a bit more to it than that.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on January 06, 2011, 03:36:03 am

I had posted, what seems to be a logical use of the serial number ( the binary bits of the letter ascii code ) seem to show features being turned on or off.   the F  as the changing part number, would turn on the final bit unused between the 1052 and the 1102 models.

search my posts ( by name )  and you'll see it i'm sure.

I've taken a look at the post you mention and the logic seems reasonable enough but unfortunately, as you point out there, your suggestion indicates that a scope with serial number starting DS1EFxxx should have a 50MHz bandwidth whilst being able to select the 2ns timebase option.

Given that the information showing DS1EFxxx as the serial number sequence for the DS1152E-EDU 150MHz scope came direct from the user manual I suspect there might be a bit more to it than that.



yep, just found my other post....   yes from that the 'F' part would as you say turn on the 50Mhz limit and enable the 2ns option.  of course if those bitwise flags control those parts,    the 1E? ( in hex, and then back to binary ... my listed binary flags of that part of the serial number ) still leaves a 0 (zero) which comes from the 1_E_? part of the serial.   so its unlikely....  maybe the internal software on seeing that combination ( from the 1EF , and the model name ) swicthes something else not in that front part of the circuit ?

possibly instead instead of the individual bits for the 50MHz and 2ns,  the two bits are used as a pair, thus giving us 3 ( or 4 ) options from the two apparant bit flags.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on January 06, 2011, 07:51:13 am
@zenith1111:
Until Rigol release a new FW or someone cracks the hash algorithm used in the FW file header, there is no way (I know of) to make a downgrade file for your new FW... You may try the attached file, but I really don't think it will work.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Spank on January 06, 2011, 08:12:34 am
Hello,

Thanks a lot for your great effort here!!!
I got yesterday my DS1052e with FW 02.05 SP1 with the Trigger problem.
- I did all of the things on page 1, SW download and install.
- I downloaded the program of shafri. Thanks great prog  :)
- Than I downloaded the FW from Killerwhalle: 2.05SP1_to_2.04SP1.zip, did the downgrate to 2.04SP1
- Downgreate to 02.02 SP2 with FW from page 1, the patched one
- Hack with Shafri's prog
- Ugrate with FW 02.04.01.02 from d0ss. Checked the trigger problem => all ok. Timebase down to 2ns. Calibrate. Done

Great! Thanks!!!!



Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: killerwhale on January 06, 2011, 08:32:15 am
Here's a file you can use to directly downgrade to 2.02SP2 from any firmware up to, and including, 2.05SP1 (00.02.05.01.00).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 06, 2011, 10:41:00 am
Here's a file you can use to directly downgrade to 2.02SP2 from any firmware up to, and including, 2.05SP1 (00.02.05.01.00).

Does any one know if the methods used to "crack" the firmware are documented somewhere?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tdavis80 on January 07, 2011, 02:28:54 am
spank:  I also just got a new scope yesterday.  It has the latest hardware REV. What version is your hardware?  I have been reading through the posts and only the newer firmware seems to support the newer boards. I am concerned that I might brick my unit if I downgrade for the hack.  Or does the unit start to work again when you reflash to the latest?


update: I did the update procedure.  Everything went well. Only took about 30 mins start to finish.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 08, 2011, 01:23:48 am
I've just sent a new bug report to rigol:
Rigol DS1052E Printing and USB flash problems (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j76UMUOurJM#ws)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on January 08, 2011, 02:23:01 am
I've just sent a new bug report to rigol:
Rigol DS1052E Printing and USB flash problems (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j76UMUOurJM#ws)


good,  if they release yet another new firmware to fix this,  then we have three of the new headers used on the 2.05 firmware line, should allow us to see whats changing and in what places.

comparing the 2.05_sp1 and the 2.05_sp1_02 file ( fix the trigger problem )  i cant see what / how its changing. i can see some bytes common, but a third firmware might help more.

if you can post it, assuming you get a reply that is.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 08, 2011, 02:29:30 am
I've just sent a new bug report to rigol:

Can anyone confirm that pic bridge, FAT and NTFS file systems work properly in 2.04 SP1? It is sure beginning to sound like Rigol is just desperately fishing around trying to defeat the hack and not fully testing the FW "upgrades". 
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 08, 2011, 02:33:37 am
I've just sent a new bug report to rigol:
Rigol DS1052E Printing and USB flash problems (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j76UMUOurJM#ws)


good,  if they release yet another new firmware to fix this,  then we have three of the new headers used on the 2.05 firmware line, should allow us to see whats changing and in what places.

comparing the 2.05_sp1 and the 2.05_sp1_02 file ( fix the trigger problem )  i cant see what / how its changing. i can see some bytes common, but a third firmware might help more.

if you can post it, assuming you get a reply that is.
I will :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 08, 2011, 05:29:13 am
I've just sent a new bug report to rigol:

Can anyone confirm that pic bridge, FAT and NTFS file systems work properly in 2.04 SP1? It is sure beginning to sound like Rigol is just desperately fishing around trying to defeat the hack and not fully testing the FW "upgrades". 

I've tested a lot of flash "drives", some of them don't work, even formatted as FAT32, I could replicate the FAT and NTFS problem with a different flash and the printing problem with a different printer, but it still might be just my hardware...

Rigol certainly is trying to stop the upgrades to upper models, they're protecting themselves, but I bet they never sold as many low end scopes in the company's history as they're selling now with all this exposure. And in the DS1102E's price range there is a lot more good manufacturers competing with them. At least I never would've bought a Rigol product it it weren't for Dave's several reviews in EEVblog and all this talk about the hacks.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Bored@Work on January 08, 2011, 06:14:01 am
I've just sent a new bug report to rigol:

Can anyone confirm that pic bridge, FAT and NTFS file systems work properly in 2.04 SP1? It is sure beginning to sound like Rigol is just desperately fishing around trying to defeat the hack and not fully testing the FW "upgrades". 

What is a little bit surprising is that the don't manage to stop the software-based hacking. They have a new hardware release (HW59, right?). What would have prevented them from going to encrypted firmware and an ID / version chip on the new hardware?

Maybe it is one of those cases where the original development team, those with the real clue, moved on a long time ago, and they just put random "maintenance resources" on the issue. Those "resources" don't know the HW and SW too well, and haven't the means and the authority to change much, so they are just firing shots in the dark with firmware releases.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 08, 2011, 06:25:46 am
I've just sent a new bug report to rigol:
Can anyone confirm that pic bridge, FAT and NTFS file systems work properly in 2.04 SP1? It is sure beginning to sound like Rigol is just desperately fishing around trying to defeat the hack and not fully testing the FW "upgrades".  
What is a little bit surprising is that the don't manage to stop the software-based hacking. They have a new hardware release (HW59, right?). What would have prevented them from going to encrypted firmware and an ID / version chip on the new hardware?

Because that would increase the costs of hardware. A TPM or something equivalent costs a lot of money and would not be hacker proof (look at the three major gaming consoles). I bet the amount of money they would make with the slight increase of DS1102E sales would not cover the cost of the advanced security methods. Like I said above, if it wasn't for this they would have sold a lot less DS1052E's and that would certainly not mean a proportional increase in DS1102E sales.

Edit: I thought mine (HW58) was the latest... But anyway, I bet they're just correcting minor HW bugs found in warranty-returned units, let's see what the next revision brings  ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Bored@Work on January 08, 2011, 07:08:29 am
Because that would increase the costs of hardware.

Yes, but ...

Quote
A TPM or something equivalent costs a lot of money
... you don't need a TPM or such junk. Just a few cent, maybe for a version  number / serial number / ID chip with a crypto authentication. These chips have become so cheap, that printer ink robbersmanufacturers put them in each ink cartridge to prevent usage of generic cartridges in a printer.

If you are looking for some, start with http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc8663.pdf (http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc8663.pdf)

Quote
and would not be hacker proof (look at the three major gaming consoles).

No, but it raises the bar. Which is what all this security game is about. You have a lock on your door? Specialists, called locksmith can "hack" it. Some criminals can "hack" it. Your friendly neighbor typically can't. So you stick with that lock, because it is "good enough". When it turns out that your friendly neighbor routinely hack that type of lock, you don't do a simple "firmware" upgrade, like trying another lock of the same type. You raise the bar with using something more serious.

Quote
I bet the amount of money they would make with the slight increase of DS1102E sales would not cover the cost of the advanced security methods. Like I said above, if it wasn't for this they would have sold a lot less DS1052E's and that would certainly not mean a proportional increase in DS1102E sales.

But then it doesn't make sense for them trying to prevent hacking at all. Either they want to prevent this, then it is astonishing that they don't doe it seriously. Or they don't want to prevent this. In the later case, why are they wasting time with the firmware joke?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gandalfg8 on January 08, 2011, 07:22:53 am
I've just sent a new bug report to rigol:

Can anyone confirm that pic bridge, FAT and NTFS file systems work properly in 2.04 SP1? It is sure beginning to sound like Rigol is just desperately fishing around trying to defeat the hack and not fully testing the FW "upgrades". 

I've tested a lot of flash "drives", some of them don't work, even formatted as FAT32, I could replicate the FAT and NTFS problem with a different flash and the printing problem with a different printer, but it still might be just my hardware...

I'm not in a position to check my scope right now but I wasn't really expecting that FAT and NTFS formatted memory sticks would work with the Rigol scope anyway.

FAT, AKA FAT16, had problems enough with DOS and early Windows systems when hard drive sizes increased above a few hundred megabytes and I didn't think it had been used for anything other than floppy drives for years.

NTFS offers many advantages when used with modern versions of Windows, and I'm prety sure most versions of Linux can handle it these days too, but I can remember at one time, not sure if it still applies, that failure to use the proper "safely remove hardware" option was virtually guaranteed to cause file corruption if NTFS was used on a memory stick.
Since the only option on the scope is just to pull it out, unless the scope is switched off with it in place, it's perhaps not the best option there either.

Given the above it would seem to me that FAT32 is likley to the natural choice and perhaps no great surprise if the other two options were excluded.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 08, 2011, 07:45:24 am
@BoredAtWork
I agree with most of your statements, but all I'm saying is that the "crypto chips" used in ink cartridges didn't stop the OEM from cracking them open, refill, reset and resell them; when it comes to "raise the bar" to decent levels of security there are massive costs associated, the development time is significantly increased, etc.

What you are suggesting is creating a new model in the middle of this one's life, that is not very good from the business perspective and, after the costs and implications associated with the new development, they would end up with twice the work when it comes to support and bug detection.

If what you said wasn't true the several hardware manufacturers wouldn't spend the amount they do in security, all I'm saying is that right now, in this single case they would probably lose more money than what they would win with a decent security.

Of course they could do it and I could be wrong, but we'll see:)

@gandalfg8
There are lots of USB flash drives up to 2GB that are formatted as FAT by default, I personally never had any issue with it. NTFS can be flagged as "removed unsafely", but if the data was correctly flushed from the buffers there would be no more data loss than on FAT32. I'm pretty sure they didn't implemented NTFS because of it's complexity (I always use FAT in microcontrollers because of that).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jelmer on January 08, 2011, 08:06:17 am
Another successful 'upgrade' of a DS1052E (00.02.05.00.00) to a DS1102E (00.02.04.01.02). Bought mine from DealExtreme at the end of December '10

I used Killerwale's 2.05 SP1 -> 2.02 SP2 and then d0ss's 2.04 SP1 update.

cool,
can someone with a 2.05 (no SP1) system (before trying to downgrade please :) ) provide me with
1) a screen shot of the version info of the scope (optional, but would be nice)
2) the full version string ( you can use shafry's tool (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727#msg19727) for that. should be somthing like 02.05.00.02 or so

i'll the rewrite/update the guide (need to rewrite it anyway, looks it's getting confusing)

I made some screen shots throughout the update process to update the first post. Enjoy!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 08, 2011, 08:29:14 am


I've tested a lot of flash "drives", some of them don't work, even formatted as FAT32, I could replicate the FAT and NTFS problem with a different flash and the printing problem with a different printer, but it still might be just my hardware...

That's with the 2.05 firmware your scope came with, right? I'm wondering if this is another piece of evidence that 2.04 SP1 was the last good, stable and bug-free FW release.

Quote
but I bet they never sold as many low end scopes in the company's history as they're selling now with all this exposure.
It was a major factor in my decision to purchase a Rigol scope. I was seriously looking at a competitor when I stumbled onto this forum via Google. A new 100mHz scope was outside my snack bracket until I found this thread -- even used ones tend to be more than a new 1052.

Obviously Rigol is making money on the 1052 or they wouldn't be selling it at this price point. The price difference is pure profit, which is what they are trying to protect. The question then is how many customers were prepared to buy the 1102 but bought the 1052 because of the hack? If I had the money and need for a 100mHz scope, I'd doubt I would have found this forum or hack. So my personal opinion is that they are indeed boosting sales and profits overall, by increasing their market share amongst hobbyists.

Maybe they know this and that's why they are just playing with FW instead of making a HW revision? Make it too much bother for a commercial user to change, but still within reach of the hobbyist?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 08, 2011, 08:54:09 am
That's with the 2.05 firmware your scope came with, right? I'm wondering if this is another piece of evidence that 2.04 SP1 was the last good, stable and bug-free FW release.
Yes, mine came with 00.02.05.01.00, then rigol provided the 00.02.05.01.02. I'm waiting for someone to report if older revisions have this bugs. I think they do, it seems weird that so many bugs would appear later (and the trigger bug did appear and passed QA).

Quote
Maybe they know this and that's why they are just playing with FW instead of making a HW revision? Make it too much bother for a commercial user to change, but still within reach of the hobbyist?
My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gandalfg8 on January 08, 2011, 12:52:55 pm
I have RF test facilities up to 1GHz and hope to check the actual amplitude vs frequency response of the scope rather than measure rise times.
I'm planning on doing this by using the scope itself just as an indicator, with a direct coax feed and no probes, so that the measured results rely only the calibration of the signal generator.

With a background in "conventional" analogue and digital design I'd be the first to admit that my understanding of the digital processing that goes on in something like the DS1052E is strictly limited, but there does seem to be something going on under the bonnet of the 1052 that, to me at least, is quite a lot more complicated than I first expected!

Given that my main measurement interest is in analogue RF I set out a few days ago to confirm the bandwidth of my 1052E with 1102E conversion using analogue measurement techniques rather than pulse driven rise time measurements.

Following my initial tests I quickly realised that indicated amplitude, of a periodic waveform at least, both on the scope display and as measured by the scope, varies with both vertical and horizontal settings. Changing the vertical range can indicate a different amplitude for the same signal and having too many cycles per division horizontally adds distortion and also affects amplitude measurements.
Oh well, so far at least I'm learning some limitations as I go along!

Vertical range variation was, hopefully anyway, eliminated by keeping the scope on the same setting and just adjusting the level at the signal generator.
The horizontal setting was a bit more awkward, you can't swing an input frequency over a 150MHz range without adjusting the timebase, but trial and error indicated that adjusting it such that one cycle of the waveform occupied between 1 and 3 divisions gave a reasonably stable result.

Using an attenuator pad on the output of the generator and a transformer based splitter to supply both channels via 50ohm feed through terminations, I was able to remove any scope probes from the measurement chain, so far so good, and at least establish that both scope channels are very closely matched.

What I measured though didn't seem to be very consistent or to make much sense, sometimes I could measure a -3dB point around 110MHz but at others the response seemed to be almost flat up to around 140MHz and then tailing off quite noticeably at 150MHz.
Today, using either one channel or both, I could not persuade it to change from being almost flat to 140MHz.
That lack of consistency certainly concerns me but, for today anyway, it was consistent enough so I just assumed this might be an artefact of using a modern DSO on a repetitive waveform and that the processing was biasing the result.
All very nice but perhaps a bit too good to be true.

Sooooooooo....., and this is where I really starts to lose the plot, I decided that perhaps I should try a rise time measurement after all.
Feeding the scope from a fast rise time impulse generator, originally intended for the calibration of surveillance receivers at frequencies up to 1GHz, has resulted in a very clean displayed pulse with reported rise times of around 2.5ns.
Jitter seems to be swinging this between approx 2.2 and 2.6ns but it still seems to be indicating a bandwidth of around 150MHz!

So what am I supposed to conclude from all this?

I was happy to accept that my analogue bandwidth measurements could be wrong but now my risetime measurements seem to confirm them after all.

Can my 1102E conversion really have 150MHz bandwidth?

Is this suggestion totally unrealistic?

Can anyone explain exactly what's going on here?

Answers on a postcard please..........:-)














Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on January 08, 2011, 01:45:40 pm
As long as the sample rate is high enough, I don't see how digital processing would change the frequency response, although the Rigol is not known for very stable, accurate results.

A constant-amplitude sine wave is the fundamental way to measure bandwidth (it's defined as the point where the level first drops below -3dB). Rise time depends on the response curve of the scope, the .35/BW formula is correct for a perfectly Gaussian response (-6dB/octave), I wouldn't count on this being 100% accurate, although the error doesn't tend to be that big (brick-wall response is .4 to .5 / BW if I remember correctly).

Does setting the scope to a different (but constant during the test) vertical setting have any significant effect? I've seen some tests that indicated that the vertical amplifier gain was very non-linear above 30MHz or so, but the results seemed suspect to me, and I don't have the scope myself to verify. I think the attenuator consists of just standard SMT passives on FR4, no custom hybrids like the expensive scopes, so I wouldn't expect great high-frequency performance. I don't think they specified bandwidth measurement very well in their manual, but I would expect it to be measured at a fixed voltage like 1Vp-p. It may not be the same at other attenuator settings.

It sounds like you know your stuff and the test setup is sound, so my initial impression is that your test results are valid, as long as your signal generator is happy with the extra capacitance that the 1Mohm input in parallel with the termination represents. Also watch the bandwidth of those terminators, some are only good to 100-250MHz.

Was the pulse width significantly wider than the rising edge on the scope, i.e. no semi Dirac pulse? To accurately determine the 10% and 90% points, you need the real amplitude, and that's hard to determine without a much faster scope if it's something like a Dirac pulse. The limited bandwidth will also decrease the amplitude.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on January 09, 2011, 02:26:28 am
Thanks a bunch gandalfg8 for doing those performance tests.  Your tests seem to vindicate the performance that others did too, but its good to hear you have the quality of test gear to make me have more faith in the results.  

ADC processing introduces errors on its own.  You'll find many devices with DAC/ADC discussing output 'flatness' through a frequency range.  This error is suggested in the Rigol spec sheet regarding DC accuracy on vertical amp as worse case +/- 4%, not including co-factors such as the sampling method used and the range selected.  Taken into account, its more like < = +/- 5%.

Solution: to reduce it to its minimum, calibrate the Rigol just before testing. The variation you had from first measure to next could reflect ambient conditions.  BTW, did you warm the unit up before testing?

Given the scope has a claimed realtime sampling rate of 1Gs/s and equivalent rate of 25 Gs/s, shows that it performs well within its Nyquist frequency well.

When you say amplitude, does it actually measure differently given the scale?  Is the difference large or is the error within 5% spec?   You may not sweep frequency and hope to hold the image on screen stable.  It may need to reacquire and analyze it.

Solution: To solve vertical and horizontal issues let the Rigol do it via 'auto' then and check both automatic amplitude [ voltage] and frequency readout.

I do think you have a 150MHz scope, but I'm not sure how reliable it is made to operate in that region.  Rigol doesn't have a 150Mhz version of this model scope.  The higher frequency versions are a different model number and have higher sampling rates, 2Gs/s, the 1000CA series.  At least you know it good past 100MHz.  The bandwidth limits reflect the input analog amps, but the ADC sampling rate remains unchanged, and then there's the memory length.  You can try optimizing Rigols' "Acquire options" to overcome some of the test limits you noticed to see if it improves the amplitude variations, so this is an open area of experimentation.

When trying to decide what to apply this scope to, modded or unmodded, given the sampling rate is fixed, the worse case is 250Ms/s on dual channel, real time sampling, long record length.  It suggests, then that even if the hack extends the input bandwidth to 100 or 150 MHz, the aliasing errors caused by the sampling rate, not to mention its memory length, ultimately rate limits its performance.  You can stretch it, but at 50 MHz its unquestionably at its best.  To 100 MHz, use only a single channel to minimize aliasing.  To 150 MHz, you're still within the range of the Nyquist frequency, with higher aliasing error probability.

For repetitive waveforms its another story, the 100MHz Rigol claims 25Gs/s equivalent time sampling, you can sample frequencies to 2.5 GHz.  The 1052E is listed at 10Gs/s for frequencies to 1GHz.



With a background in "conventional" analogue and digital design I'd be the first to admit that my understanding of the digital processing that goes on in something like the DS1052E is strictly limited, but there does seem to be something going on under the bonnet of the 1052 that, to me at least, is quite a lot more complicated than I first expected!

Given that my main measurement interest is in analogue RF I set out a few days ago to confirm the bandwidth of my 1052E with 1102E conversion using analogue measurement techniques rather than pulse driven rise time measurements.

Following my initial tests I quickly realised that indicated amplitude, of a periodic waveform at least, both on the scope display and as measured by the scope, varies with both vertical and horizontal settings. Changing the vertical range can indicate a different amplitude for the same signal and having too many cycles per division horizontally adds distortion and also affects amplitude measurements.
Oh well, so far at least I'm learning some limitations as I go along!

Vertical range variation was, hopefully anyway, eliminated by keeping the scope on the same setting and just adjusting the level at the signal generator.
The horizontal setting was a bit more awkward, you can't swing an input frequency over a 150MHz range without adjusting the timebase, but trial and error indicated that adjusting it such that one cycle of the waveform occupied between 1 and 3 divisions gave a reasonably stable result.

Using an attenuator pad on the output of the generator and a transformer based splitter to supply both channels via 50ohm feed through terminations, I was able to remove any scope probes from the measurement chain, so far so good, and at least establish that both scope channels are very closely matched.

What I measured though didn't seem to be very consistent or to make much sense, sometimes I could measure a -3dB point around 110MHz but at others the response seemed to be almost flat up to around 140MHz and then tailing off quite noticeably at 150MHz.
Today, using either one channel or both, I could not persuade it to change from being almost flat to 140MHz.
That lack of consistency certainly concerns me but, for today anyway, it was consistent enough so I just assumed this might be an artefact of using a modern DSO on a repetitive waveform and that the processing was biasing the result.
All very nice but perhaps a bit too good to be true.

Sooooooooo....., and this is where I really starts to lose the plot, I decided that perhaps I should try a rise time measurement after all.
Feeding the scope from a fast rise time impulse generator, originally intended for the calibration of surveillance receivers at frequencies up to 1GHz, has resulted in a very clean displayed pulse with reported rise times of around 2.5ns.
Jitter seems to be swinging this between approx 2.2 and 2.6ns but it still seems to be indicating a bandwidth of around 150MHz!

So what am I supposed to conclude from all this?

I was happy to accept that my analogue bandwidth measurements could be wrong but now my risetime measurements seem to confirm them after all.

Can my 1102E conversion really have 150MHz bandwidth?

Is this suggestion totally unrealistic?

Can anyone explain exactly what's going on here?

Answers on a postcard please..........:-)

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: boeserbaer on January 09, 2011, 07:51:45 am
Hi,  Just bought the 1052E.  Successfully upgraded (arrived with 2.04sp1 firmware) using the guide, and Shafri's windows updater (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727)).  For what it might matter to others, I ran the windows updater under vmware on my imac.  I was nervous about bricking my scope, but coming from a Tek 7904, the 50Mhz bandpass was not acceptable.   With the firmware set to ds1102, I am getting 3.2ns rise time at the probe tip out of a NC7WZ logic part!  If it only had 4 channels or the logic analyzer.  However for $399 I am really happy.

Thanks to all of you.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mindThomas on January 09, 2011, 10:36:05 am
I just recieved my DS1052E today from DealExtreme. It is working fine and looks good.
It came with 00.02.05 SP1, and I haven't tried hacking it yet. But I have still managed to fuck it up, so everytime I turn it on, it shows the splash screen, and afterwards it crashes.
The problem started when I switched the Trigger Slope to the arrows going both ways (both high-to-low and low-to-high triggering) - it crashed just when I had selected that.
Though I've managed to fix the scope again, by disconnecting the source I was measuring on, turn the scope off and on again, and press the Run/Stop button right after the Splash screen disappeared. Then afterwards going into the Trigger menu and changed the Slope back!

Are there anybody in here who would try to do the same thing, and see if the same problem occours? As I said, you can "fix" it, if it happends!
Is it really a bug in 00.02.05? :o

Best Regards
Thomas Jespersen
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on January 09, 2011, 10:42:05 am
This is a "known" issue with 2.05 and seems to have been resolved by a 2.05 sp2 firmware that I believe was posted here a few days ago after a rigol tech emailed it to a member.


I just recieved my DS1052E today from DealExtreme. It is working fine and looks good.
It came with 00.02.05 SP1, and I haven't tried hacking it yet. But I have still managed to fuck it up, so everytime I turn it on, it shows the splash screen, and afterwards it crashes.
The problem started when I switched the Trigger Slope to the arrows going both ways (both high-to-low and low-to-high triggering) - it crashed just when I had selected that.
Though I've managed to fix the scope again, by disconnecting the source I was measuring on, turn the scope off and on again, and press the Run/Stop button right after the Splash screen disappeared. Then afterwards going into the Trigger menu and changed the Slope back!

Are there anybody in here who would try to do the same thing, and see if the same problem occours? As I said, you can "fix" it, if it happends!
Is it really a bug in 00.02.05? :o

Best Regards
Thomas Jespersen
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mindThomas on January 09, 2011, 10:53:19 am
Hmm, ok :-\
Just checked Rigol's page, and they don't even seem to have the 2.05 for download?
Anyways, if I want to hack the scope, is this then possible with this firmware 2.05 SP1 (I've read in this post that it is possible), and the Hardware revision 58?
And what about upgrading to 2.05 SP2 afterwards?

Thomas

This is a "known" issue with 2.05 and seems to have been resolved by a 2.05 sp2 firmware that I believe was posted here a few days ago after a rigol tech emailed it to a member.

I just recieved my DS1052E today from DealExtreme. It is working fine and looks good.
It came with 00.02.05 SP1, and I haven't tried hacking it yet. But I have still managed to fuck it up, so everytime I turn it on, it shows the splash screen, and afterwards it crashes.
The problem started when I switched the Trigger Slope to the arrows going both ways (both high-to-low and low-to-high triggering) - it crashed just when I had selected that.
Though I've managed to fix the scope again, by disconnecting the source I was measuring on, turn the scope off and on again, and press the Run/Stop button right after the Splash screen disappeared. Then afterwards going into the Trigger menu and changed the Slope back!

Are there anybody in here who would try to do the same thing, and see if the same problem occours? As I said, you can "fix" it, if it happends!
Is it really a bug in 00.02.05? :o

Best Regards
Thomas Jespersen
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on January 09, 2011, 11:42:36 am
I suggest you downgrade from 2.05SP1 to 2.02SP2, hack the scope to 100MHz and then install 2.04SP1 firmware. Your HW58 is OK for 2.04SP1.

If you straight from 2.05SP1 to 2.05SP2, to fix the bug in SP1, you effectively prevent yourself carrying out the hack as there is no way to step down from 2.05SP2 at the moment. If you really want 2.05SP2 on your scope, do the 100MHz hack first then install 2.05SP2, but I know of no advantage to 2.05SP2 and I recommend 2.04SP1 as that seems very strable and still hackable in the future.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on January 09, 2011, 11:51:00 am
This is good advice and exactly what I did with my 2.05 hw58 scope, works just fine now.


I suggest you downgrade from 2.05SP1 to 2.02SP2, hack the scope to 100MHz and then install 2.04SP1 firmware. Your HW58 is OK for 2.04SP1.

If you straight from 2.05SP1 to 2.05SP2, to fix the bug in SP1, you effectively prevent yourself carrying out the hack as there is no way to step down from 2.05SP2 at the moment. If you really want 2.05SP2 on your scope, do the 100MHz hack first then install 2.05SP2, but I know of no advantage to 2.05SP2 and I recommend 2.04SP1 as that seems very strable and still hackable in the future.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mindThomas on January 09, 2011, 12:02:57 pm
So should I follow the guide in the first post, nor that it states that it can't be used for 2.05SP1?
Or should I follow one of the guides inside this topic - can't remember the page?

Thomas

I suggest you downgrade from 2.05SP1 to 2.02SP2, hack the scope to 100MHz and then install 2.04SP1 firmware. Your HW58 is OK for 2.04SP1.

If you straight from 2.05SP1 to 2.05SP2, to fix the bug in SP1, you effectively prevent yourself carrying out the hack as there is no way to step down from 2.05SP2 at the moment. If you really want 2.05SP2 on your scope, do the 100MHz hack first then install 2.05SP2, but I know of no advantage to 2.05SP2 and I recommend 2.04SP1 as that seems very strable and still hackable in the future.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 09, 2011, 01:01:57 pm
So should I follow the guide in the first post, nor that it states that it can't be used for 2.05SP1?
Or should I follow one of the guides inside this topic - can't remember the page?

After downgrading I believe you can pretty much use any guide, but I guess the newer the instructions the better. Just make sure you don't install anything newer than 2.04 SP2, believe me.

I've found the trigger issue in the first 5 minutes of fiddling with this thing, and there I was, thinking "almost one week of waiting and I've just broken this thing"...

They should correct the bugs and then worry about locking the scopes, or at least try to stop making them worse...

I really like my unit, it's hard to find better hardware quality for this price, but they are being assholes, they have that right, to protect themselves, but still assholes nevertheless. It seems they are now more interested in making "mods" difficult than to take the time to properly supporting their products, the bugs seem to increase with every new release...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 10, 2011, 12:30:28 am
So should I follow the guide in the first post, nor that it states that it can't be used for 2.05SP1?
Or should I follow one of the guides inside this topic - can't remember the page?

The first page should be updated again. I am still waiting for my scope to arrive, but here is my understanding of what you need:

 On page 29 Killerwhale posted a link to a file he created (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5220 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5220)) that will downgrade 2.05 SP1 (00.02.05.01.00) to 2.02 SP2. You can use that file with the instructions in the first post.

Your scope will not work properly with that firmware because you have a HW58 model. However, that firmware will allow the hack to 100mHz.

After you have made the hack, you can upgrade your firmware to 2.04 SP1 using the file provided by d0ss on page 12 here: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=3930. (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=3930.) Your scope will work properly with that version firmware.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on January 10, 2011, 12:53:50 am
What torch says above is correct. I went through all the steps of making sure the flash drive could written to and checksums but those are just safety steps to be sure nothing goes wrong. I also used the app that was written by safri(sp?) to make the changes via USB.

Whole process took about 10 minutes.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 10, 2011, 12:57:01 am
What torch says above is correct. I went through all the steps of making sure the flash drive could written to and checksums but those are just safety steps to be sure nothing goes wrong. I also used the app that was written by safri(sp?) to make the changes via USB.

I haven't seen a checksum published for killerwhale's 2.05 SP1 to 2.02 SP2 downgrade yet. Can anyone confirm that the correct MD5 hash is 7cc0aac2e39f6a677dd0296344e33954 (that's what I got using HashCalc on the downloaded file)?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on January 10, 2011, 12:59:47 am
What torch says above is correct. I went through all the steps of making sure the flash drive could written to and checksums but those are just safety steps to be sure nothing goes wrong. I also used the app that was written by safri(sp?) to make the changes via USB.

I haven't seen a checksum published for killerwhale's 2.05 SP1 to 2.02 SP2 downgrade yet. Can anyone confirm that the correct MD5 hash is 7cc0aac2e39f6a677dd0296344e33954 (that's what I got using HashCalc on the downloaded file)?

I asked the same question and here was the answer (and hash I got for the file I used)

The MD5-hash of the downgrade file is "1fa740d1e2914651d96b96f9ff01dfc6" (it worked with this file).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: twilliams on January 10, 2011, 01:01:14 am
 
I was wrong , this was the hash for the original 2.05 downgrade.


What torch says above is correct. I went through all the steps of making sure the flash drive could written to and checksums but those are just safety steps to be sure nothing goes wrong. I also used the app that was written by safri(sp?) to make the changes via USB.

I haven't seen a checksum published for killerwhale's 2.05 SP1 to 2.02 SP2 downgrade yet. Can anyone confirm that the correct MD5 hash is 7cc0aac2e39f6a677dd0296344e33954 (that's what I got using HashCalc on the downloaded file)?

I asked the same question and here was the answer (and hash I got for the file I used)

The MD5-hash of the downgrade file is "1fa740d1e2914651d96b96f9ff01dfc6" (it worked with this file).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mindThomas on January 10, 2011, 01:21:27 am
Another scope successfully hacked...
My scope had the 2.05 SP1 installed and revision 58 hardware. The hacking process went fine, and I have now upgraded to 2.04 SP1 and calibrated...
The scope is really a nice tool to have, at a bargain price too. Though is it just me, or is the scope overshooting? Everything I measure on (except the 1KHz test) is overshooting at both low-to-high and high-to-low transitions.
Fx look at the image below
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on January 10, 2011, 04:05:50 am
Check your probe compensation (if you're using a 10x probe), a misadjusted probe can have this effect. Are you sure the signals are clean edges without overshoot? Did you verify with another scope?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mindThomas on January 10, 2011, 04:30:50 am
No I haven't tested with another scope, as I'm not even sure that it isn't the signals which have overshooting/"ringing".
I think it's the signals, nor than the scope!

Check your probe compensation (if you're using a 10x probe), a misadjusted probe can have this effect. Are you sure the signals are clean edges without overshoot? Did you verify with another scope?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cicastol on January 10, 2011, 04:57:16 am
Feeding the scope from a fast rise time impulse generator, originally intended for the calibration of surveillance receivers at frequencies up to 1GHz, has resulted in a very clean displayed pulse with reported rise times of around 2.5ns.
Jitter seems to be swinging this between approx 2.2 and 2.6ns but it still seems to be indicating a bandwidth of around 150MHz!
You should use a VERY fast pulse generator to check the scope rise time,a simple 2n2369 pulser schematics is on the net and if well made is capable os less than 300pS rise time.
My 1052/1102 is doing 1,32nS with eq time sampling and 1,64nS real time  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on January 10, 2011, 05:54:05 am
You should use a VERY fast pulse generator to check the scope rise time,a simple 2n2369 pulser schematics is on the net and if well made is capable os less than 300pS rise time.
Assuming you use a sampling scope (or very fast real-time scope) like Jim Williams did to verify amplitude before using it for risetime measurements.

My 1052/1102 is doing 1,32nS with eq time sampling and 1,64nS real time  ;)
If you think that means ~250MHz bandwidth, you're kidding yourself.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AndrewK on January 10, 2011, 10:23:11 am
Hi, All!
Does anybody have the 00.02.05.00.00 firmware?(not sp1 and upwards) If does, please share it. Thank You very much! :-*
Have a nice day!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: bodeplot on January 10, 2011, 02:25:59 pm
Hi, All!
Does anybody have the 00.02.05.00.00 firmware?(not sp1 and upwards) If does, please share it. Thank You very much! :-*
Have a nice day!

I believe you are looking for this post by killerwhale:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg28048#msg28048 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg28048#msg28048)

I just hacked my Saelig which also had the 2.05.00.00 with that downgrade file.  I wasn't certain if the newer 2.05 SP1 firmware downgrade file would work. ???  I suppose it would be nice to have a list to see which downgrade files go with which FW.

After the downgrade, everything went smoothly to get back to 2.04 SP1

I ordered the Rigol from Saelig to get the bag, which is a nice extra.  Everything went well for me, let's see if I can post a few photos:

before the upgrade
(http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac198/ghost_mutant/Rigol/01080001.jpg)

after upgrading
(http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac198/ghost_mutant/Rigol/01080002.jpg)

after calibration
(http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac198/ghost_mutant/Rigol/01080003.jpg)

The bag from Saelig
(http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac198/ghost_mutant/Rigol/01080004.jpg)

I did not experience the alternate trigger problem.  But I did just notice that my vertical setting is different after calibration.  Good thing I took those photos :)
Hmmmmm, I don't recall changing anything on the vertical?  I'll get the calibrator out again and use the 'volts out' test port to make sure the vertical is working properly.

edit, I just double checked, vertical was reset during the Rigol calibration.  I had been using the probes on 10x before plugging in the HK calibrator and forgot to switch back.  No problems.

Many, many thanks to eevblogers who contributed to this. ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 10, 2011, 02:32:52 pm
Does anybody have the 00.02.05.00.00 firmware?(not sp1 and upwards) If does, please share it. Thank You very much! :-*

Are you looking for the 2.05 firmware to install, or the file to downgrade 2.05 to 2.02 SP2 preparatory to the hack? The 2.05 firmware is reported to be buggy and can lock up the scope in certain circumstances. A number of people have suggested that 2.04 SP1 is the best option.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AJ4OM on January 10, 2011, 03:04:18 pm
(http://aj4om.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/ds1102e-e1294536764283.jpg)

Thanks to all that made this guide possible. Another happy hacked scope owner here.  ;D

Jason
www.aj4om.com (http://www.aj4om.com)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AndrewK on January 11, 2011, 01:37:38 am
Does anybody have the 00.02.05.00.00 firmware?(not sp1 and upwards) If does, please share it. Thank You very much! :-*

Are you looking for the 2.05 firmware to install, or the file to downgrade 2.05 to 2.02 SP2 preparatory to the hack? The 2.05 firmware is reported to be buggy and can lock up the scope in certain circumstances. A number of people have suggested that 2.04 SP1 is the best option.

Hello!
I just got My NEW! scope on dec. 24 with original firmware: 00.02.05.00.00... If I make this hack, and someting goes wrong inside the scope in 3 years, I will have to set back the original firmware and type... :P 8) ;) You know, what I mean.....
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: toshas on January 11, 2011, 02:18:34 am
I did another successful hack for HW58 02.05SP0

short summary of previous 8 pages - latest scopes comes with HW ver 58 and FW ver 02.05SP0 (info screen looks like http://aj4om.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/ds1102e-e1294536764283.jpg (http://aj4om.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/ds1102e-e1294536764283.jpg) ) or 02.05SP1 (info screen looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocasdaneve/5320723214/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocasdaneve/5320723214/#) ) (SP1 has software bug - scope hang up when you choosing "rise and edge" trigger mode)

retry all steps:
1) downgrade to 02.02SP2 using killerwhale's downgrade file (02.05SP0 to 02.02SP2) (1fa740d1e2914651d96b96f9ff01dfc6) http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5103 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5103)
2) hack with shafry's tool http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727#msg19727 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727#msg19727)
3) flash on 02.04SP1 by d0ss firmware file (BCF73565352391935F3A9651D30776EE) http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19908#msg19908 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19908#msg19908)
4) do autocalibration 
everything works fine!

p.s. for 02.05SP1 you need to use new  killerwhale's downgrade file (02.05SP1 to 02.02SP2) (md5 - ?) http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5220 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5220)

thank you very much all of you!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on January 11, 2011, 02:22:36 am
AndrewK,

If that's your concern, just use the 2.05SP2 version.... it's supposedly bug fixed and is a genuine OEM firmware release. I very much doubt Rigol would be concerned if you had used their official firmware upgrade.

Consider the fact that a DSO is a significantly microprocessor based product though.... if a fault occurs in the microprocessor area you may not have the ability to install any firmware after it fails, 2.05 or any other for that matter.

With regard to the 3 year warranty.... whilst I understand your desire to maintain the warranty, I decided that my AideTek USA supplied DS1052E (despatched from Hong Kong), would probably cost more to return for warranty repair than it will be worth at the time of failure. In my case I purchased a cheap ($375) DS1052E from outside the UK and considered it an acceptable risk that it might fail and end up as "spares or repair" on ebay  :D 
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 11, 2011, 07:04:55 am
Does anyone know any significant difference between HW58 and the former versions?

I just couldn't handle the noise anymore and replaced the stock fan with a larger, slower one. I took the opportunity to take a couple (mediocre quality) photographs of the interior. I couldn't spot any obvious differences between my scope and the scope Dave used in EEVblog #37. The single difference I've spotted in the main board was in the USB controller's logo. Dave's unit says ICP and mine has a graphic. Both are marked with the same reference, ISP1362, so they should be pin compatible and not require a HW version change. I also didn't saw any difference regarding the DSP, that makes me keep wondering why my DSP version is reported as being 00.00

Then I looked at the power supply. It lacks half a dozen components in a zone marked as "high voltage", the silk screen is different and a couple components are slightly different, like the power button's manufacturer, nothing relevant.

Maybe they replaced the LCD's fluorescent backlight with a LED one, that way the high voltage wasn't needed?
Could only these PSU differences justify the HW Revision change? They could easily track those with the serial numbers, after all.

Photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocasdaneve/sets/72157625794159580/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocasdaneve/sets/72157625794159580/)

Edit: I forgot to mention that my unit is an HW58.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 11, 2011, 07:12:01 am
I just couldn't handle the noise anymore
wear ear plugs.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on January 11, 2011, 07:36:31 am
That's interesting zenith1111; if you do have LED instead of CFL as backlight, you could see lower power consumption with a watt meter.  For others, you can see the difference on the upper right of the PSU PCB:
If it uses LED, it would also make the screen more reliable, in theory at least.

Note, hacking the fan will likely void your warranty, unless your return it back to the old fan, and find a way to not break the case seals [ mine has them.]

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5044/5343950770_927edb279b_z.jpg)

I've uploaded a smaller version of Dave's photo, which is just too big.  

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: boeserbaer on January 11, 2011, 08:26:33 am
Another scope successfully hacked...
My scope had the 2.05 SP1 installed and revision 58 hardware. The hacking process went fine, and I have now upgraded to 2.04 SP1 and calibrated...
The scope is really a nice tool to have, at a bargain price too. Though is it just me, or is the scope overshooting? Everything I measure on (except the 1KHz test) is overshooting at both low-to-high and high-to-low transitions.
Fx look at the image below

I compared the supplied probes to my Tek p6106A probes, and foud that the Tek probes did not exhibit overshoot the way the supplied probes did.  The Tek pobe is a 250 Mhz 10Mohm 11.2pF.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 11, 2011, 08:37:03 am
wear ear plugs.
It's not a jet engine, but it is the device with the noisiest cooling in here (desktops, laptops, network, etc.), it's annoying, now it's like my laptop.

Note, hacking the fan will likely void your warranty, unless your return it back to the old fan, and find a way to not break the case seals [ mine has them.]
I am aware, I couldn't open it without breaking the seals. I did a burn-in test and it didn't malfunction, so I tried my luck :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AndrewK on January 12, 2011, 12:04:58 am
AndrewK,

If that's your concern, just use the 2.05SP2 version.... it's supposedly bug fixed and is a genuine OEM firmware release. I very much doubt Rigol would be concerned if you had used their official firmware upgrade.

Consider the fact that a DSO is a significantly microprocessor based product though.... if a fault occurs in the microprocessor area you may not have the ability to install any firmware after it fails, 2.05 or any other for that matter.

With regard to the 3 year warranty.... whilst I understand your desire to maintain the warranty, I decided that my AideTek USA supplied DS1052E (despatched from Hong Kong), would probably cost more to return for warranty repair than it will be worth at the time of failure. In my case I purchased a cheap ($375) DS1052E from outside the UK and considered it an acceptable risk that it might fail and end up as "spares or repair" on ebay  :D 
Hello, Aurora!
I know that a DSO is a significantly microprocessor based product.... ;) ;D if a fault occurs in the microprocessor area and if the power supply will dead, I can't install any firmware..... But switch, pushbutton, fan, input area, rs232 or usb contact etc.... ;) 8)  If I update My scope 00.02.05.00.00 to 00.02.05.01.02 will I have to auto calibrate?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on January 12, 2011, 02:26:12 am
Hi AndrewK,

After any firmware update you should carry out the auto calibration routine. You may also auto calibrate at any time to ensure the accuracy of the scope readings.

In your situation with FW2.05 installed on a new DSO, if you desire the 100MHz bandwidth, I recommend downgrading the firmware to 2.02SP2 using the '2.05 to 2.02SP2' firmware file. Carry out the changes to configure the 100MHz bandwidth, then install firmware 2.04SP1 . I recommend that you do not use or calibrate the scope whilst it is running the FW2.02SP2 as it isn't totally compatible with HW58, but if you don't fiddle, you wiill be OK. Once you have installed FW2.04SP1, carry out the auto calibration routine with no inputs connected except the mains cable. You will then have a working HW58 DS1052E DSO with 100MHz bandwidth running a known stable and unmodified OEM firmware.

If at a later date you decide to upgrade the firmware version, that is still possible by just following the manufacturers upgrade instructions. You could install FW2.05SP2 any time you like and then run auto calibrate again. If a non OS critical component fails whilst you are running FW2.04SP1, you can downgrade to FW2.02SP2, change the settings back to the DS1052E standard 50MHz bandwidth and install FW2.05SP2 before returning it for repair under warranty. Even if the fault prevents auto calibration, it will not cause an issue at Rigol as that data would be overwritten once they repair and calibtrate it. The down side of the scenario is that when you get your scope back from repair, you may not be able to reapply the 100MHz modification unless the firmware header issue has been resolved by then.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: CalcProgrammer1 on January 12, 2011, 03:39:39 am
I just upgraded my 2.05.00 1052E to 2.04 SP1 1102E, self-calibrated and it seems to be working great!  It is a HW58 model I purchased from Aidetek on eBay in November.  Thanks for the awesome guide and all the appropriate firmware files!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AndrewK on January 12, 2011, 07:37:49 am
Hi, Everybody!
I have successfully hacked My DS1052E HW58 00.02.05.00.00 scope to DS1102E via USB! It was the simpliest thing in the word!!!! ;) ;D 8)Thx a lot! :-*
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AndrewK on January 12, 2011, 08:48:20 am
Hi, Everybody!
I have successfully hacked My DS1052E HW58 scope to DS1102E! Thx a lot!
Hey, All!!!
Be careful!!!!The 00.02.05.01.00 and 00.02.05.01.02 firmware is the same sp1 displayed, but as You know, not match these 2 files!!! Now with 00.02.05.01.02 firmware still the point of no return, and Some people named it(00.02.05.01.02) to 02.05 sp2!!!! This firmware still not support FAT & NTFS file systems..... ;) ::)
Aurora, this is not Your problem! Thanx everything You and Torch!

Hujujujujuuujjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj.......... :'( :o
There is another bug in 00.02.05.01.02(sp1/2) firmware..... :o When I put My 4GB Kingston pendrive into the scope USB with NTFS partition, the scope says:file system not supported(or something like this), but "do You want to format it?" when I choose yes, the screen hangs but the pendrive led flashing. I don't know, when will be finish the format(with full format and usb 1.1 it takes about 62 minutes! :o), or the scope hangs.... Very interesting......   ??? >:(
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 12, 2011, 10:12:52 am
Aurora, this is not Your problem! Thanx everything You and Torch!

Just to clarify: I didn't do anything, I just summarized. It's guys like polossatik, killerwhale, d0ss and shafri that have done all the work on this. They are the ones that deserve our thanks.

THANKS GUYS!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AndrewK on January 12, 2011, 10:51:46 am
Aurora, this is not Your problem! Thanx everything You and Torch!

Just to clarify: I didn't do anything, I just summarized. It's guys like polossatik, killerwhale, d0ss and shafri that have done all the work on this. They are the ones that deserve our thanks.

THANKS GUYS!

Oh, oops!
You are right! I forgot to thank You guys: polossatic, d0ss, killerwhale and shafri. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!!
I'm testing the newest firmware. Baybe I find some more bugs.... ;D I have found 2...... I have waited more than one our to finish the scope format My pendrive without any result.....  :o:'( The pendrive LED is always still flashing. ??? Scope hanged......after restart, everything OK, and the pendrive has a FAT32 file system....
Wow!!! The FFT function disappeared from the menu... :'( :o ???
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: nono on January 14, 2011, 08:16:37 am
Hi,

Received my Rigol DS1052E from DealExtreme today (ordered 30 Dec.2010 - 14 days ago) among a bunch of other gadgets (how to resist all those useless great stuff they have overthere). Ugrading from my 35 years old/self-build/multi-repaired/5Mhz/mono-trace scope. geee - what a jump - was about time.

Just to let you guys know:
Original installed F/W: 00.02.05 SP1 (00.02.05.01.00)

* Installed UltraScope downloaded from first post (author: polossatik). http://rapidshare.com/files/391131901/Ultrascope_for_DS1000E_Series.exe (http://rapidshare.com/files/391131901/Ultrascope_for_DS1000E_Series.exe)
* Installed the visa462runtime.exe from first post (author: polossatik). http://ftp.ni.com/support/softlib/visa/VISA%20Run-Time%20Engine/4.6.2/win/ (http://ftp.ni.com/support/softlib/visa/VISA%20Run-Time%20Engine/4.6.2/win/)
* Downloaded "Rigol Update" program from Shafri. http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727#msg19727 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19727#msg19727)
* Verified UltraScope working properly with my unmodified DS1052E - yes.
* Ran "Rigol Update" program and confirmed that it was reading my DS1052E - yes. NOTE - I (of course) DID *NOT* CLICKED THE "Upgrade Rigol" BUTTON.
* Downgrade my FW to 2.02SP2 using Killerwhale 2.05SP1_to2.02SP2 mod firmware by copying the file to the root of an USB flash drive (only file on drive) and putting it in the Rigol when turned "on" -http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5213
* Ran "Rigol Update" program, select "Check Rigol Model & Serial" and then "Upgrade Rigol" - wait for the beep+message.
* Turn off/on Rigol and confirm.
* Upgrade firmware to 2.04SP1 from dOss (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19908#msg19908 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19908#msg19908)).
*Perform internal calibration.

The Ultrascope step don't seems necessary for the update but always nice to have.
All is nice so far.

Thank you.

Cheers.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on January 14, 2011, 08:50:36 am
nono,

Remember to run the inbuilt calibration routine after installing FW2.04SP1 ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AndrewK on January 14, 2011, 09:55:55 am
Hello, Guys!
The pendrive format was't perfect by the scope. The scope shows the partition, but the PC not see anything(00.02.05.01.02)....
Do the older firmwares the same?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 14, 2011, 08:45:31 pm
* Downgrade my FW to 2.02SP2 using Killerwhale 2.05SP1_to2.02SP2 mod firmware by copying the file to the root of an USB flash drive (only file on drive) and putting it in the Rigol when turned "on" -http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5213

I haven't seen a checksum published for killerwhale's 2.05 SP1 to 2.02 SP2 downgrade yet. Can you (or anyone else who's used it successfully) confirm that the correct MD5 hash is 7cc0aac2e39f6a677dd0296344e33954 (that's what I got using HashCalc on the downloaded file)?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: nono on January 15, 2011, 01:29:29 am
That's what I have/use for 2.05SP1_to_2.02SP2 (DS10000EUpdate.RGL file) from KillerWhale:
7cc0aac2e39f6a677dd0296344e33954

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on January 15, 2011, 08:47:26 am
you get a bit busy for a week or 2 and you have to wad trough 10's of pages of the thread to get up to spead..

hehehe

I'm rewriting the first post right now, so hold your horses if you have upgrade questions for the moment

edit: I was thinking about using the wiki , but that has so much spam.....

The Ultrascope step don't seems necessary for the update but always nice to have.

no, it's not needed in any way, but it's a very good step to check if your USB drivers are working good, hnce why I added that .
You don't want to have windows lock up while updating the firware nr or so :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on January 15, 2011, 12:12:40 pm
ok, first post updated, should be good for everyone up to 00.02.05.01.00

comments etc welcome

thankx for everyone who added their files, info etc to this thread!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on January 15, 2011, 10:49:28 pm
updated the last (point 6) section in the guide about what  firmware to use after doing the hack.

comments welcome.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on January 15, 2011, 11:34:54 pm
Excellent work, as always!  Could you place your last revision date on the very top of the modified message?  Other than your comments and reading the whole text, the only confirmation of a revision is the "Last Edit" date viewed at the bottom.  The message creation date is always the same, from May 2010.

updated the last (point 6) section in the guide about what  firmware to use after doing the hack.

comments welcome.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 16, 2011, 12:07:50 am
updated the last (point 6) section in the guide about what  firmware to use after doing the hack.

comments welcome.

I think there is a typo -- actually two -- in the point just before step 4:

Quote
3)c) your firmware is 00.02.05 SP1 ( 00.02.05.01.02 ) or higher

no luck yet. follow the thread from page 33 onwards

I think this should read:

3)d) your firmware is 00.02.05 SP2 (00.02.05.01.02) or higher

no luck yet. follow the thread from page 33 onwards.

(suggested changes in blue)

I suggest this because the step before this one is also numbered 3)c) and details how to change 2.05 and 2.05 SP1  ;)

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mindstorm88 on January 16, 2011, 02:30:36 am
Hi guys, an other ds1052e just been upgraded here !!! ;D  , received it yesterday fron DealExcel, ordered december 24 ,received in Canada january 14 , received it with 02.05.00.00 and hw 58 !!!

Thanks guys for the good work !!!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on January 16, 2011, 03:00:00 am

I think this should read:

3)d) your firmware is 00.02.05 SP2 (00.02.05.01.02) or higher

no luck yet. follow the thread from page 33 onwards.

(suggested changes in blue)

I suggest this because the step before this one is also numbered 3)c) and details how to change 2.05 and 2.05 SP1  ;)

thankx changed the C to D

AFAIK 00.02.05.01.02 is reported as SP1 not SP2, somewhere in the thread i saw it being referenced as SP2 and then a few posts later someone pointed out is still reported as SP1.

I'll leave it as SP1 until someone on that version confirms/denies this.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tutankamon on January 16, 2011, 03:19:49 am
Hi all, another succes here, my Rigol successfull upgraded to 100MHZ, THANK YOU!!!!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 16, 2011, 06:04:46 am
AFAIK 00.02.05.01.02 is reported as SP1 not SP2, somewhere in the thread i saw it being referenced as SP2 and then a few posts later someone pointed out is still reported as SP1.

I'll leave it as SP1 until someone on that version confirms/denies this.

Looking back over it again, you may be right. AndrewK says that both 00.02.05.01.00 and 00.02.05.01.02 are reported as "2.05 SP1" by the scope, even though some people are calling it "SP2". There may not actually be an SP2 yet -- just a "bug fix" of 2.05 SP1. That would actually make more sense, given the numbering system.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 19, 2011, 11:25:29 am
Mine arrived today (ordered from DX Dec. 30, shipped by mail Jan. 5). It came with hardware version 58 and firmware 00.02.05.01.00 -- identified as 00.02.05 SP1 on the boot screen.

I can confirm it does have the trigger bug -- ie: it locks up the machine if set to rise/fall and the only way out is to cycle the power and hold run/stop when the boot screen appears.

I'm going to leave it run for a 24 hour burn-in. Is there anything I can check on this virgin machine that would be of help to the hackers before I apply the hack?

(BTW: I used DX's "gift" option on the shipping -- plain brown wrapper and tagged as "gift". Declared value was within the custom's rules for gifts and it slid right in with no hassles or duties applied).  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AndrewK on January 19, 2011, 08:38:44 pm
Hey, Guys!
Here is the newest firmware downgrade!
00.02.05.01.02 and olders to 00.02.02.SP2!
It's working.... ;) 8)  ;D :-*
My scope already with 00.02.04sp1 firmware.....
Does anybody have the original 00.02.05.00.00 firmware?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on January 19, 2011, 11:58:48 pm
Hi AndrewK,

Very nice  :)

Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 20, 2011, 12:44:42 am
My scope already with 00.02.04sp1 firmware.....
Does anybody have the original 00.02.05.00.00 firmware?

That's great news!

I don't think anyone has posted the original 2.05 firmware anywhere in this thread. I downloaded each file as they were posted over the last few months, and I don't have it in my collection.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenith1111 on January 20, 2011, 12:52:53 am
I also used the downgrade file that AndrewK posted and now I'm also using FW 2.04 after the "upgrade". Thanks!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on January 20, 2011, 05:39:27 am
Hey, Guys!
Here is the newest firmware downgrade!
00.02.05.01.02 and olders to 00.02.02.SP2!
It's working.... ;) 8)  ;D :-*
My scope already with 00.02.04sp1 firmware.....
Does anybody have the original 00.02.05.00.00 firmware?


so you got a firmware higher than 2.05.01.02,  cut the header off that to do the patch file ?

can you also post the 0.2.05.01.03 file or whatever it was you got from Rigol i'm assuming ....

thanks
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 20, 2011, 11:15:34 am
I'm going to leave it run for a 24 hour burn-in.

The 24 hours is up. I did the downgrade, converted it to an 1102 with Shafri's script, installed 2.04 sp1, ran the self-calibration and all is good. No trigger bug any more either.

Thanks again to everyone who worked this out!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zilym on January 21, 2011, 09:30:22 pm
I ordered my DS1052E from dealextreme on 1/12/2011 with EMS. It arrived exactly one week later (1/19/2011). Firmware version was 2.05 SP1 (00.02.05.01.00) upon arrival. Hardware 58. I followed the instructions to hack it into a DS1102E and switched to the less buggy 2.04 SP1 firmware. Working like a charm so far! Seems like a really feature packed scope -- aside from only having two channels and a noisy fan, this seems as good as or slightly better in many ways than the far more expensive Tektronix I use at work.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: hkoutram on January 22, 2011, 01:55:35 pm

  :)
yea! I got the DS1052E S/W Vers 2.05 SP1 H/W Vers 58 from DxExtreme Wednesday. It took till now to make sure I understood the blog instructions for this particular scope, download the firmware, verify that the MD5's matched & get up the nerve to do it.

successfully updated 1052e (S/W 00.02.05.01.00 H/W 58) to 1102e,
downgraded firmware,
then hacked,
then upgraded to 02.04.01.02 and
recalibrated.

Everything appears to work. I am using S/W version 2.04 SP1 now so the trigger bug went away that S/W version 2.05 has.
  ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: scottwolf369 on January 23, 2011, 09:00:15 am
My DS1052E with fw2.05 SP1 hw58 showed up this morning and within an hour I had a it hacked to DS1102E with fw2.04 SP1.

An excellent guide!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AndrewK on January 23, 2011, 09:38:34 am
Hey, Guys!
Here is the newest firmware downgrade!
00.02.05.01.02 and olders to 00.02.02.SP2!
It's working.... ;) 8)  ;D :-*
My scope already with 00.02.04sp1 firmware.....
Does anybody have the original 00.02.05.00.00 firmware?


so you got a firmware higher than 2.05.01.02,  cut the header off that to do the patch file ?

can you also post the 0.2.05.01.03 file or whatever it was you got from Rigol i'm assuming ....

thanks
Hello, Darrylp, and Everybody!
You are right! I've got a firmware higher than 00.02.05.01.02., and I cut the header off that to do the patch file.
Do You really want the newer firmware? I'm afraid, some people will try to hack their scope with this newer original firmware without any result.... :'( :o :( ???If You can't live without this, I'll share it, becouse this is not a secret firmware..... ;D ;) ::) I got it from Rigol of course. I don't know how named this firmware, I didn't try it, and I don't want to try it too...

This is the newest original firmware below!!!!!Do not use this with downgrade!!! This is the point of no return.....yet....!!!!!!
Have a nice day Everybody! :) :-*
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: nono on January 23, 2011, 10:03:23 am
Quote
I don't know how named this firmware, I didn't try it, and I don't want to try it too...

Seesm to be 02.05.02.00

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xnaron on January 26, 2011, 02:16:21 am
I've been in contact with drieg, and he has been able to restore my settings. My scope has been modified to a DS1102E and is full of awesome and win. Just to confirm, it looks like:

  • Hardware version 58 comes with firmware 00.02.04.01.02
  • I know of 3 DS1052E scopes that with HW ver. 58 and FW ver. 00.02.04.01.02. Their serial numbers all start with DS1ED123610nnn.
  • The noise that appears at high sampling rates happen only when you have HW ver. 58 and FW ver. 2.04 or lower

If you are reading this and are hesitant to try this, I will say that there is an associated risk because lower version firmware does cause problems with the scope. However, it is likely that your can restore your previous settings (thanks to drieg) and your scope can work fine.

yyao,

From your post it sounds like your scope was "fixed" with the help of drieg.  From what I have read the upgrade howto has been updated to support v58 and 2.05.01.02(edit) and lower.  I'll be getting my scope from DX within the next few weeks and would like to do the upgrade (following instructions in first post of this thread).  I'd just like to be sure that you've got your issue worked out and have a fully functioning scope now.

thanks,
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 26, 2011, 03:51:50 am
From what I have read the upgrade howto has been updated to support v58 and 2.05.02 and lower.

NO! The latest firmware that can be hacked to 100MHz is 2.05.01.02.  The version posted by darrylp, above (2.05.02) CANNOT BE HACKED TO 100MHz AT THIS TIME.

Quote
The noise that appears at high sampling rates happen only when you have HW ver. 58 and FW ver. 2.04 or lower
Note that the noise issue was fixed in 2.04 SP1 (2.04.01.02). The HW58 scope works perfectly with that firmware and some later firmware versions introduced new bugs, so that is currently the recommended FW version for the hacked scope.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ipsfax on January 26, 2011, 04:36:57 am
Was diligent and followed all steps even checking the hash, original software was shown as 00.02.02 SP2, special mode was 00.02.02.02.00.  Only thing strange was the HardVersion=07.  Ran the USB updater, completed just fine, verified change of model number, rebooted rechecked and it was fine. Put DS1000EUpdate.RGL on to my Flash drive, verified hash, plugged into unit, identified new version, I accepted, loaded, finished with nothing looking like it had changed. check version screen, no change still at 00.02.02 SP2.  Rebooted and now it is blank, sometimes button lights come on other times just the Measure button light comes on.

Anything I can do at this point?

Any input would be appreciated,
Chris
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 26, 2011, 06:14:05 am
Anything I can do at this point?
PM Drieg. IIRC, if you have earlier than 2.05, there is no need to change firmware, then why change? what DS1000EUpdate.RGL version you were installing? did you wait until all the firmware copied into the scope?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ipsfax on January 26, 2011, 08:26:58 am
Per the instructions, "HardWare version "57" (or lower) scopes MAY stay on 00.02.02.02.00 but there no reason why you should NOT go to 00.02.04.01.02 (00.02.04 SP1)".  I installed "02.02.SP2_patched_to_02.04.02" DS1000EUpdate.RGL. 

The loading bar completed then once done I did not see it reboot or anything, just was on the same screen, I check the version screen and realized it did not change, since it looked like the update had completed I then turned the unit off  then on again.

I will contact Drieg now.

Chris
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 26, 2011, 09:50:12 am
Was the USB memory stick formatted as FAT32? Someone mentioned a few pages ago that their Rigol scope had problems with any format other than FAT32.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ipsfax on January 26, 2011, 10:48:40 am
Yes, FAT32 - just checked.  I emailed Drieg, hopefully he will come to the rescue and I will send the chip to him and call it a day.

Chris
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: akschu on January 27, 2011, 03:39:25 am
I think I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on a scope.  Where should I order it from to make sure I get one that has the firmware needed to down/upgrade?  I have purchased from tequipment in the past and was happy with their service.

Thanks,
schu
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on January 27, 2011, 04:24:55 am
If you can wait a long time between ordering and receiving your scope, you can order it at dealextreme: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/rigol-ds1052e-5-6-tft-lcd-50mhz-2-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-30573. (http://www.dealextreme.com/p/rigol-ds1052e-5-6-tft-lcd-50mhz-2-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-30573.) It is the cheapest way, but you have to wait approx. a month before you have it in your hands, even if you ordered it via EMS  :(. If you want to have it faster, you have to look for a local dealer and you’ll pay it a lot more.
I have the impression that DX have a stock of their own, so this means that you will receive a firmware which is not the latest. Of course the longer you wait, the less change you’ll have to have a 00.02.05.01.02 or lower. But for the moment only 00.02.05.02.00 is not OK! On the other hand, also 00.02.05.02.00 will become OK, from the moment that Rigol has to release an new FW for an additional bug fixing. So again: perhaps you have to have somewhat time, but up till then you still have a good working 50Mhz scope, with which you can do a lot of work.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on January 27, 2011, 07:29:33 am
DX have nothing at all in stock.
Some of the firms they use might, but that will not be reflected on the DX site in a proper way.
"In stock" means "we can almost sure order it from somewhere".

My rigol from DX  came even directly from China, not from hong kong , after making a fuzz to DX.

edit: Also realize the Chinese Lunar New Year Holiday is here. Sending stuff from like yesterday , until week(s) after this will be slow, very slow.

Things clog up pretty bad in HK post before and after the Chinese New Year Holiday.

If you are not prepared to wait a possible LONG time, don't order from DX, if you are not prepared to wait like 2 - 3 weeks on top of the normal time it takes to get something from HK (I have had 1 week up to 5 weeks shipping time from HK to BE), don't order from HK until mid feb.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sq9nje on January 27, 2011, 06:17:34 pm
I second what polossatik said. Ordered my Rigol from DX on 21/12/2010 and though the site said it was "in stock" I had to wait for two weeks until it shipped. Then the Polish customs contributed some quality time to my delivery, but finally after a month of waiting I got it yesterday.

Oh, and I am happy to report that it's already successfully hacked  ;D It came as 00.02.05.01.00 HW58.

Regards,
Przemek
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on January 27, 2011, 10:39:39 pm
the site said it was "in stock" I had to wait for two weeks until it shipped.

2 weeks? that rather "fast" according to DX standards... you where lucky :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on January 27, 2011, 11:19:50 pm
I am waiting for my DS1052E from DX. It was ordered on 07/01/2011. So this is already 3 weeks. I hope that I will receive it shortly ::)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sadman on January 28, 2011, 01:09:37 am
2 weeks? that rather "fast" according to DX standards... you where lucky :)
i've ordered it on 01/15 and it got shipped on 01/19 (at least they say so)
we'll see when it arrives
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xnaron on January 28, 2011, 01:38:58 am
I ordered 2 from DX  (one for a friend).  1 ordered Jan 20 and 1 Jan 24.  They both shipped Jan 27 via EMS.  Hopefully will make it out of China before the New Year slow down.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: delwinbest on January 28, 2011, 07:55:23 pm
So as of now there is still now way to downgrade from 2.05.02 ????

I'm also having problems installing the USB driver for this device on Windows XP... anyone experience this???

\d  :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alnaser on January 29, 2011, 02:12:02 am
Hi all from Bosnia,

here is another successfull upgrade to DS1102 (from 00.02.05.01.00 - dealexteme)
Code: [Select]
unsigned short int c;
unsigned short int test=0;
c=Eeprom_Read(0);
test=perform_update_DS1052E_to_DS1102E();  //returns 1 if OK, otherwise 0
if(test){
    c++;
    EEprom_Write(0, c);
    xGlcd_Write_Text("THANKS!   :)",0,0,1);   
}

else {
    while(1)  xGlcd_Write_Text("I have destroyed my rigol",0,0,1); 
}
THANKS!   :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xnaron on January 29, 2011, 02:39:52 am
After the upgrade is complete can future firmware updates from Rigol be applied normally or will we need to follow a special procedure?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on January 29, 2011, 04:40:17 am
there should be no reason to have any special firmware

the "non patched" firmwares here listed (like the 02.04 SP1 or 2.05 you can use after the mod) are 100% stock and not altered in any way
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Audioman on January 29, 2011, 09:17:26 am
Hi guys ,
I'm a newbie of the forum and i receive my rigol DS1052E with the software 02.05.00
anyone can explain me the right procedure for upgrade to DS1102E ??
Let me know
Thank you
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on January 29, 2011, 09:55:06 am
Page 1 of this thread?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on January 29, 2011, 10:09:56 am

Code: [Select]
   else {
    while(1)  xGlcd_Write_Text("I have destroyed my rigol",0,0,1); 
}

ROFLMAO
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ppirokke on January 30, 2011, 09:46:37 am
Hey folks,

I just patched my brand new Rigol DSO. Everything worked fine as described!
By the way, when I got it, everytime I switched trigger mode from pos. edge to both edges, it just hanged and no input was possible. I had to restart and than really fast switch start/stop to avoid another hanging. But now the problem is gone :) Don't know if it was just a bad written memory or a real Version Bug.


Greetings from germany!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dendennis on January 30, 2011, 01:22:58 pm
the trigger problem is in firmware 2.05.01 please downgrade using the 2.05 to 2.02 patched firmware
 then 'upgrade' to 2.04 sp1 as this is the most stable firmware.
 
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cWal on January 31, 2011, 09:05:55 am
Hi guys ,
I'm a newbie of the forum and i receive my rigol DS1052E with the software 02.05.00
anyone can explain me the right procedure for upgrade to DS1102E ??
Let me know
Thank you

Also, good summary page 32 for this software.

Thank you all for this crazy post !
I received yesterday my 1052E ordered 12/31 with HW 58 and FW 00.02.05.00.00, did the hack following the instructions page 1 and the very useful summary page 32, worked fine !
Everything seems ok now after upgrading to 02.04.01.02 (02.04 sp1) and calibration. Another happy customer  :D

Thanks again all for your help and such a great idea !
Greetings from France.  :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xnaron on February 01, 2011, 01:06:42 pm
Got my 1052E today and it's 2.05.02.00. Go figure.  >:(

Where did you order it from?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on February 01, 2011, 06:22:58 pm
Hi ToBeFrank,

The best thing to do: find a bug in the firmware 02.05.02.00, and report it to Rigol. If they come up with a new firmware-revision, you must not install it. But now you have the key to downgrade your 02.05.02.00 to 02.02 SP2, by changing the header of the 02.02 SP2. If you don't know how to do it, just post the FW you received on this forum, and you will get the new downgradable software for the 02.05.02.00!
So try to find an error or be patient until someone else find a bug and Rigol comes with a new FW. :-\

Regards, Frank.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on February 02, 2011, 05:56:30 am
its on page 35, of this thread.

you need a firmware higher than your current one, so it will trigger a firmware update.

the trick is to append that encoded newer firmware header onto an older firmware which supports changing of the serial and model number ( 2.02 sp2 ) then change it,   then if the hardware is version 58, go to 2.04 sp1 and recalibrate andleave it at that. if its a newer hardware then you;ll need a hacked header to get your 2.02sp2 or 2.04sp1 upto a 2.05.x firmware which might be needed.

note if the hardware is higher than hw 58, dont calibrate on the 2.02 or 2.04 versions. it might not work.


so, below 2.05 firmware we can downgrade easily and hack model & serial number to get 100Mhz bandwidth option.  stay on 2.04sp1 if hardware is HW 58 or lower.

if you need 2.05 or higher ( due to newer hardware than 58 )  you;ll need a special upto 2.04sp1 type header tacked onto a 2.05+ fimware  as the old and new firmare decode and validate the header differently.

right now, ive not seen mention of a newer hardware than 58, but that could change quickly !
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on February 02, 2011, 07:16:55 am
the pre 2.05 headers are plain text, and you can easily use a higher firmware number to trigger an update.   ( its only the header that triggers the update )
hence we place a high version number on an old firmware and then hack with features that got removed in the latter firmwares.

from 2.05 onwards we have some kind of checksum it appears,  and without decoding it, up till now , we cut the header from a higher version and mix it with 2.02sp2 to get the features we need to hack the model/serial.

right now, the highest firmware we have in a file is 2.05.02, once a newer revision comes out ( think, fix a bug yet to be found in that version ) Rigol will have to fix it, and to fix 2.05.02 they will have to number it at least 2.05.02.01 ....    encode it as the 2.05 onward firmwares only look for the encoded numbers,  then a 2.05 will update to that newer version.

if we had a 2.05.02.01 or higher update file, we can then release a firmware to hack upto and including 2.05.02 firmware but not higher....

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on February 02, 2011, 08:01:51 am
earlier posts talk about whats been done / found out about the hardwarew inside.

its a Blackfin DSP,  google will show you a PDF of the processor and its programming code.....  however,   i've not stumbled across a disassembler for it.

I normally use IDA,   but not the paid for version :(

i can upload just the headers of the 2.05.xx.xx  firmwares that have been released in file format.   

well you can grab from here...

http://gt-four.bounceme.net/files/DS1000E_Update/ (http://gt-four.bounceme.net/files/DS1000E_Update/)

headers, batch files ( windows ) to make update files.   in the hardware folder you'll find the programmers ref pdf.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on February 02, 2011, 10:30:06 pm
I've got my son working on this. I'm not tip our hand just yet, but he has disassembled the code far enough to determine it's running Linux, and he's writing an emulator.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: just on February 03, 2011, 03:41:13 am
Use this command to disassemble the firmware:

objdump -b binary -m bfin -j .data -d file.bin > file.asm

ps.
I'm looking for firmware dumps.
Thanks.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on February 03, 2011, 04:51:37 am
sohe has set up a cross assembly system for the blackfin ?

i saw a toolchain for it somewhere but i dont really have enough time to go working on this as well as the other stuff i'm looking at.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: just on February 03, 2011, 05:23:03 am
It is using BF531.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sadman on February 03, 2011, 10:28:36 pm
2 weeks? that rather "fast" according to DX standards... you where lucky :)
i've ordered it on 01/15 and it got shipped on 01/19 (at least they say so)
we'll see when it arrives
arrived today (02/03), shipped via airmail (EMS was not available)
pretty decent
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xnaron on February 04, 2011, 01:36:06 am
2 weeks? that rather "fast" according to DX standards... you where lucky :)
i've ordered it on 01/15 and it got shipped on 01/19 (at least they say so)
we'll see when it arrives
arrived today (02/03), shipped via airmail (EMS was not available)
pretty decent

Which firmware version did yours come with?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sadman on February 04, 2011, 02:27:34 am
Which firmware version did yours come with?
00.02.05.01.00
HW version 58
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tubos on February 04, 2011, 04:47:41 am
I Just got mine

HW:58
SW: 00.02.05.02.00
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xnaron on February 04, 2011, 05:02:22 am
I Just got mine

HW:58
SW: 00.02.05.02.00

Where did you order it from?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tubos on February 04, 2011, 05:19:02 am
I ordered it from aidetek and shipped by DHL
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on February 04, 2011, 07:31:51 pm
Mine arrived yesterday. It took the Belgium customs a long time to decide that I have to pay €86 taxes  :'(. I ordered it at DX on the 7Th of Januari (with EMS). It arrived with 02.05 SP1, so it took me 10 minutes to improve it to 02.04 SP1 (of course via 02.02 to make a DS1102E of it) ;D. Recalibration is done, so I am happy. Thanks to all people on this forum who made it possible that I could realized this upgrade.
Regards, Frank.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: zenomp5 on February 05, 2011, 12:14:22 am
Thank you very much Polossatik!!!  This guide was very easy to follow and gave all information necessary - very informative.

I purchased my Rigol DS1052E from marcmart.com for US $339.90   I live in Thailand so it made sense, was at my door in about a week.

My meters information:
hardversion 58
  2.05 SP1
dsp: 00.00
fpga: 02.00
00.02.05.01.00


I have Windows 7 Professional X64 so I used the XP Mode (virtual machine) to test the "Ultrascope for DS1000E Series" software and to use the "auto upgrade".  All software I used was obtained from Polossatik's first post on this thread.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on February 05, 2011, 12:35:12 am
Thank you very much Polossatik!!!  This guide was very easy to follow and gave all information necessary - very informative.

I'm just the "technical writer" :)
The real "thank you" goes out to the collaboration of all the people here who added each their own piece of the puzzle  ;D

@fminne : yeah, BE can be a pain, you just never know. I have had boxes as big as the Rigol going trough without any tax and small envelopes with a few chips in where they bugged me to provide invoices and stuff...
With DX make sure you use the 0.01 $ "gift" option, there seams to be a few .BE custom people who do know DealExtreme :)
For the rest IMHO it simply depends on who's doing the triage and if he/she has a hangover or not .
In general around 1 on 10 (when using non EMS shipping, use normal HK tracked airmail or so - In my experiance when using EMS you always pay..) is taxed, if you're lucky this is then a small parcel and if they don't think it's worth much they charge you 10 euro "provision".
Ordering stuff (7 working day on advance in general - does not work for DX) so it arrives during belgian holliday's also improves your "chance", they are then even more understaffed :)
For one or the other reason packages from the USA are better checked in .BE (and most us seller declare as total value the price + shipping, so you pay taxes on the shipping to!) - there you will almost *always* pay taxes on. I order nothing anymore from the US unless I cannot get it anywhere else. (Don't try to go against .BE customs, it's a nightmare , really, it takes day's to get to someone on the phone - use fax if you can)

one exception: Ordering stuff from TI USA seams to be actually "declared" in France as TI seams to ship everything trough France for .BE , that is (for me) always let trough without any extra taxes. I think the FR customs just cannot be bothered doing all the paperwork to pass the stuff on the .BE customs.
Title: Lissajou Testing of Hacked Scopes was Re: changing the rigol DS1052E ...
Post by: saturation on February 05, 2011, 03:02:48 am
Folks, those of you have 1052E hacked can you test the frequency response of a Lissajou pattern?
This is the X-Y function of the scope.  

I find the 50 MHz scope can't display a useful Lissajou pattern past 100kHz, which is not a practical speed limit test for most anything electronic today.  The Rigol defaults to dot mode, and as the frequency increases, the signals are increasingly undersampled, and you can't see any pattern unless you reduce the amplitude substantially to 'connect the dots'.  X-Y at high frequencies also substantially loads the CPU, and you can see the Rigol crawl as you approach 100kHz.

Sadly, any cheapo analog scope can do this test easily, up to its rated analog bandwidth.  


From the Rigol Manual, here's the step by step:
"""
1. From the probe menu set the attenuation to 10X. Set the switch to 10X on the
probes.
2. Connect the CH 1 probe to the input of the network, and connect the CH 2 probe
to the output.
3. If the channels are not displayed, press the CH1 and CH2 buttons.
4. Press the AUTO button
5. Adjust the vertical knob to display approximately the same amplitude
signals on each channel
6. Press the MENU in horizontal control area to display the menu
7. Press the Time Base soft button to select X-Y
The oscilloscope displays a Lissajous pattern representing the input and output
characteristics of the circuit
8. Adjust the vertical and knobs to a desirable
waveform display."
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on February 05, 2011, 04:41:44 am
My hacked DS1052E doesn't work at all well with my Tektronix TR210 (Huntron Tracker 200) in the X-Y mode. Even the cheapest  analogue CRO's cope fine with the TR210's X-Y output so I guess it horses for courses and I'll stick to using an analogue scope when doing component testing.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on February 05, 2011, 05:37:48 am
Thanks Aurora, do you know if it works with any Tek brand DSO, not analog? 


My hacked DS1052E doesn't work at all well with my Tektronix TR210 (Huntron Tracker 200) in the X-Y mode. Even the cheapest  analogue CRO's cope fine with the TR210's X-Y output so I guess it horses for courses and I'll stick to using an analogue scope when doing component testing.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on February 05, 2011, 06:38:18 am
The Tektronix TR210 was the result of an exclusive contract with Huntron to produce an advanced component testing capability for the TDS200 range of DSO's. I would expect Tektronix to ensure that the TDS200 performs correctly with the X-Y output of the component tester but I have never seen the two connected together so cannot confirm the quality of the image produced.

The Tektronix TR210 sales page is here:

http://www2.tek.com/cmswpt/psdetails.lotr?ct=PS&cs=psu&ci=14667&lc=EN (http://www2.tek.com/cmswpt/psdetails.lotr?ct=PS&cs=psu&ci=14667&lc=EN)

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on February 05, 2011, 07:06:35 am
Thanks Aurora, I did see that earlier but didn't put it together in my head; if its made specifically for the low end TDS200 line, it could work with any better scopes in the line.

Not a major problem, but Rigol users should know X-Y is limited.  I'll continue to test it.


The Tektronix TR210 was the result of an exclusive contract with Huntron to produce an advanced component testing capability for the TDS200 range of DSO's. I would expect Tektronix to ensure that the TDS200 performs correctly with the X-Y output of the component tester but I have never seen the two connected together so cannot confirm the quality of the image produced.

The Tektronix TR210 sales page is here:

http://www2.tek.com/cmswpt/psdetails.lotr?ct=PS&cs=psu&ci=14667&lc=EN (http://www2.tek.com/cmswpt/psdetails.lotr?ct=PS&cs=psu&ci=14667&lc=EN)


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on February 05, 2011, 07:26:45 am
Folks, those of you have 1052E hacked can you test the frequency response of a Lissajou pattern?
This is the X-Y function of the scope. 
I find the 50 MHz scope can't display a useful Lissajou pattern past 100kHz
is Lissajou hardware specific? is it possible there is flaw in firmware for lissajou display?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on February 05, 2011, 08:06:19 am
Hi mech:

Its possible this can be improved by firmware, if there is code inefficiency in there.  I intend to bring it to Rigol USA's attention, we all have nothing to lose.  But I don't know how often X-Y is used today and why they'd bother improve it.

If the Tek TDS200 series runs on similarly capable hardware, i.e., ADC at roughly the same speed etc., even if not identical, there is no strong reason the Rigol shouldn't be able to use a Huntron 200 on X-Y mode; reading the Huntron spec sheet it outputs to X-Y in a low frequency, so it can work with the Rigol, since I know it will work to 100kHz.

I haven't tried all possible avenues on the Rigol to improve the lissajou image, but if other DSOs are equally limited to ~ 100kHz, then its just a limitation of DSO versus analog.  I've put a question to the Tekway thread to see what tinman and others think.





Folks, those of you have 1052E hacked can you test the frequency response of a Lissajou pattern?
This is the X-Y function of the scope. 
I find the 50 MHz scope can't display a useful Lissajou pattern past 100kHz
is Lissajou hardware specific? is it possible there is flaw in firmware for lissajou display?

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on February 05, 2011, 10:36:39 pm
If the Tek TDS200 series runs on similarly capable hardware, i.e., ADC at roughly the same speed etc., even if not identical, there is no strong reason the Rigol shouldn't be able to use a Huntron 200 on X-Y mode; reading the Huntron spec sheet it outputs to X-Y in a low frequency, so it can work with the Rigol, since I know it will work to 100kHz.
The manual of the TDS-200 series states that the sample rate is a fixed 1MS/s in XY mode, but I have no problems displaying a ~100MHz sine way in XY mode. In dots mode, I don't see any hints of undersampling. The pattern (both amplitude and phase) changes as I change the frequency, but that's probably because of standing waves in my not properly terminated setup (there's a T splitter with ~20pF scope input in the middle of the cable, this probably messes up the impedance). The documentation states that to use the full sample rate, you should acquire the data in YT mode, stop the acquisition, and switch to XY mode, which suggests that it is a limitation in the arithmetic ability to calculate the XY graph. My guess is that YT is mostly done in hardware, but XY needs more software support. Not sure if the documentation is incorrect regarding the 1MS/s limit, I don't think there's any way to display the current sampling rate on this scope, but it seems unlikely to me to get these results with just 1MS/s.

The Tek TDS-3000 series does not have any limitations of XY mode documented in the manual, and displays a 270MHz sine just fine in XY mode. The display indicates that it's sampling at 5GS/s, and the display shows some fluctuations in the amount of phase shift (probably again because of impedance issues), so it appears to update plenty fast. So it's definitely not an inherent limitation in DSOs.

I haven't tried all possible avenues on the Rigol to improve the lissajou image, but if other DSOs are equally limited to ~ 100kHz, then its just a limitation of DSO versus analog.  I've put a question to the Tekway thread to see what tinman and others think.
DSOs are not known for great XY mode, but most analog scopes (with a few very expensive exceptions) also had a fairly limited X bandwidth of only 1MHz or so, with some phase difference because the X amplifier does not have a delay line.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jahonen on February 05, 2011, 11:05:22 pm
Not actually a Lissajous pattern, I teased my Agilent MSO6034 with a Composite video signal (X-input) and corresponding modulated RF signal (Y-input) (Y signal much above the rated 300 MHz input bandwidth) about one year ago:

(http://koti.mbnet.fi/jahonen/Electronics/Measurements/measure-2010-04-14-010.png)

I think that still image does not express fully how well that works in practice, it feels quite analog.

For comparison, same measurement on Tek TDS3034B:

(http://koti.mbnet.fi/jahonen/Electronics/Measurements/TDS3034B-RF/RF-XY-1.png)

Regards,
Janne
Title: Undocumented Features, 100Ms/s XY Support + more Re: changing ...
Post by: saturation on February 06, 2011, 10:30:49 am
jahonen & alm, awesome posts as always, more comments later, jahonen your Agilent grabs just blows me away.  This XY Rigol mode got me in tizzy but it had a good result.  I think the readers/hackers should know the following as it salvages the XY mode usability if some features are known and used together.

The manual doesn't have much to describe in XY mode.  It states 100Ms/s is not available, and when you engage XY mode in the Rigol, it stated maximum is 1Ms/s, and thus the crawling and dotty image when viewing Lissajous figures, once it reaches 100kHz, ~ 1/10 the sampling rate.

Slow sampling rates are fairly useless when trying to adjust 2 out of phase signals and tuning the Lissajous figure to stability. However, all is not lost.

I found the following undocumented control:
Acquire Button
MemDepth: select Long Mem will switch to 100Ms/s real time sampling rate
The other Menu items have no effect:
Sinx/x
Sampling


Horizontal Controls now are enhanced.
Position: disabled
Scale: adjusts Sampling Rate as follows:
Long Mem = Scale from 1Ms/s to 100Ms/s
Normal = Scale from 10ks/s to 1Ms/s


Vertical Controls, all work, but these shortcut help:
CH1+ Press Position button: centers X on screen
CH2+ Press Position button: centers Y on screen

The input amps can clearly go to the rated bandwidth of 50 MHz at -3dB, I checked each channel separately by measuring the length of each of the X & Y excursions,  but how useful XY or Lissajou figures will be depends on purpose.

Photos:

A most practical use today is measuring phase shift, so even low sampling rates work using "persistence" to draw an image but it has to be stable, it tends to 'fatten' from noise, making more accurate measures difficult.  Here the small circle is 75 MHz, the wide one is 7.5 MHz and narrow long one is 750kHz.  One 'feature' of the persistence is you can follow shifts as you adjust. You can increase the gain on the image to make manual measurements as best possible, and clear the screen to erase the unneeded image.  Phase shift is ~ 135, 45, and 20 degrees, by 'eyeball.'

(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5857;image)

For measuring frequency using Lissajous figures with unknown phase relationships, you can increase the sampling rate for a viable image, but it depends on the ratio of X/Y you use, and it can be awkward in dot mode.  here is a sample comparing 1 MHz to 5 MHz resulting in the 5-1 lobed figure that is usually moving and unstable until ratios synch and 'lock in'.  I used to do this with a stable reference, but a good frequency counter can replace this task easily.

(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5858;image)

Realtime sampling of 3 MHz 1:1, ~ 135 deg off phase.

(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=5859;image)
 

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on February 06, 2011, 09:21:11 pm
Saturation,

Thanks for the great Post  :)

I didn't experiment much with the Rigol X-Y mode after initial poor results..... my mistake. I will revisit this and see if your discoveries make it viable for use with my TR210 tracker. Many thanks for your great work on this mode.

Thanks is also due to the other members of this Forum who have commented on X-Y mode issues.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on February 07, 2011, 02:14:30 am
You're welcome, and thank you for your feedback from my initial question.

Not to hijack this thread, I think if modders make those small firmware changes, they should know what the scope was capable off before the mod, documented and undocumented functions, and that these will still continue to work after the hack; one other thing to test for besides the rise time and what's in the manual.



Saturation,

Thanks for the great Post  :)

I didn't experiment much with the Rigol X-Y mode after initial poor results..... my mistake. I will revisit this and see if your discoveries make it viable for use with my TR210 tracker. Many thanks for your great work on this mode.

Thanks is also due to the other members of this Forum who have commented on X-Y mode issues.


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Nifty on February 07, 2011, 09:52:10 pm
Successfully mod my Rigol DS1052E (ordered from DX 12/2010), initial FW version is 00.02.05.00.00, HW is 58.
Downgrade to 02.02, then mod and up to 00.02.04.01.02
Seems scope works more stable with 00.02.04.01.02 FW

Thank you guys!!!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xnaron on February 09, 2011, 08:24:26 am
Those of you who just got there scopes and happened to notice... how many power up times did you see listed in the system info screen when checking the firmware version?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on February 09, 2011, 09:01:53 am
7. Which was probably just about right, considering I turned it on a few times before I got that far.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: OhmEye on February 09, 2011, 09:21:20 am
7 times for me as well. I was a bit concerned at first when I received mine from Aidetek's NJ warehouse that it perhaps was not new. It was advertised as new with 3 year USA warranty, but arrived without a Rigol box and was packed in taped-up USPS materials, with the GUI set to Chinese. It was 00.02.05.00.00 hw58 and is working fine after the mod so no complaints.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on February 09, 2011, 04:27:30 pm
Mine was 6 times. This is, according to me, quite normal: during testing in China, they have to power it up a few times. And perhaps they also have to change the firmware to the latest available. So it is normal that the power up times counter is not 1. As long as it is under a 20, I wouldn’t say that your DS1052E is not a brand new one!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: OhmEye on February 09, 2011, 05:43:52 pm
I only thought mine might be new when I first opened the package, since it was packed by hand in cut-up USPS boxes wrapped around it with the probes and power cords taped to the cardboard, and no Rigol box or paperwork. ;) For all I know they did that to make it fit in a USPS flat-rate box, but it was a bit of a surprise. And I didn't expect the GUI to be set to Chinese on a unit with a USA warranty shipped from New Jersey. ;) I'm pretty sure it's new unit though. I was happy to see the 00.02.05.00.00 version though. :) :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on February 09, 2011, 09:46:45 pm
This in interesting, Tequipment.net lists it for the same price, it came from their NJ warehouse in a few days, in a double box, factory sealed, both Rigol labeled boxes with formed styrofoam packing.  It had paperwork that said manufacture was April 2010, and I got it on May 2010; tequipment is an official dealer.

Further I was able to deal with them so I got the scope much less than $399, delivered.

Details:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=633.msg7553#msg7553 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=633.msg7553#msg7553)

I only thought mine might be new when I first opened the package, since it was packed by hand in cut-up USPS boxes wrapped around it with the probes and power cords taped to the cardboard, and no Rigol box or paperwork. ;) For all I know they did that to make it fit in a USPS flat-rate box, but it was a bit of a surprise. And I didn't expect the GUI to be set to Chinese on a unit with a USA warranty shipped from New Jersey. ;) I'm pretty sure it's new unit though. I was happy to see the 00.02.05.00.00 version though. :) :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xnaron on February 10, 2011, 08:49:28 am
for those of you that ordered from Dealextreme.

I ordered 2 one for me and one for a friend.  They didn't come double boxed.  In fact the box they came in didn't have the side flaps.  They were wrapped up in yellow packing tape.  The factory sealing tape was broken on both.  I don't really get the feeling that these were new.  They both seem to work but haven't used them enough to see if there are any issues.  I guess you get what you pay for.  I was expecting a new unit in a factory sealed box.  Both came with sw 00.02.05.01.02 hw: 58.  What were yours like?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on February 10, 2011, 09:59:43 am
Mine came from DX in a sealed factory box, completely coated in additional packing tape. Maybe older units are now being opened at the factory warehouse so they can "upgrade" the firmware before shipping?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xnaron on February 10, 2011, 10:44:08 am
Mine came from DX in a sealed factory box, completely coated in additional packing tape. Maybe older units are now being opened at the factory warehouse so they can "upgrade" the firmware before shipping?

Both boxes had the side folding tabs cut off on both ends.  Made the box weaker for shipping IMO.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: cWal on February 10, 2011, 06:37:10 pm
Mine came from DX in a sealed factory box, completely coated in additional packing tape. Maybe older units are now being opened at the factory warehouse so they can "upgrade" the firmware before shipping?

Both boxes had the side folding tabs cut off on both ends.  Made the box weaker for shipping IMO.
I received mine on January 29th from DealExcel (1 month to come), in a carboard box with the "RIGOL" tm printed on sides (original box I assume). I was so happy I did not pay much attention to the box ! But package seemed correct.
I can remember it had been powered up 5 times and firmware was 02.05.00.00, HW58 (02.04 now ;D). I must say I had ordered 2 others items that I received with the DSO, in a bigger cardboard. Main box was resealed with some tape "opened by custom"... And I had to pay €54 to UPS ;)
Still a bargain for me, this thing does what it is supposed to do and it does it well regarding to the price. No regrets ! 8)
Just a cons : the power supply cable must be in a chinese format (never seen before), so perfectly useless. But the DSO has a classic plug for main power so no problem to replace with the right one. Yet they supplied 2 plastic adaptators for main power but I am still wondering in which countries they can be used ::)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: delwinbest on February 10, 2011, 08:33:01 pm
You can determine how many times the unit has been switched on if you got to System info (cant remember where that was) and press CH1 CH1 CH2 CH2 MATH, it will then say how many times it was booted up.

for those of you that ordered from Dealextreme.

I ordered 2 one for me and one for a friend.  They didn't come double boxed.  In fact the box they came in didn't have the side flaps.  They were wrapped up in yellow packing tape.  The factory sealing tape was broken on both.  I don't really get the feeling that these were new.  They both seem to work but haven't used them enough to see if there are any issues.  I guess you get what you pay for.  I was expecting a new unit in a factory sealed box.  Both came with sw 00.02.05.01.02 hw: 58.  What were yours like?

Still no mod for the FW guys????
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on February 10, 2011, 11:30:13 pm
My son is still working on it in his spare time. Originally he thought it was running Linux, but now he thinks they have written some sort of custom operating system based on some Linux libraries. He's figured out what part of the code handles the check when the USB stick is plugged in, but hasn't cracked the header encryption just yet.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: scrat on February 11, 2011, 12:08:31 am
My son is still working on it in his spare time. Originally he thought it was running Linux, but now he thinks they have written some sort of custom operating system based on some Linux libraries. He's figured out what part of the code handles the check when the USB stick is plugged in, but hasn't cracked the header encryption just yet.

Very interesting! Keep us updated, please... Sharing would be really useful, even just to know broadly how reverse engineering of such a software can be done. I know most of us are not experts (me first), and mabe won't understand too much, but even just an outline...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: delwinbest on February 11, 2011, 01:05:40 am
My son is still working on it in his spare time. Originally he thought it was running Linux, but now he thinks they have written some sort of custom operating system based on some Linux libraries. He's figured out what part of the code handles the check when the USB stick is plugged in, but hasn't cracked the header encryption just yet.

Good to know! Why did he originally think it was Embedded Linux?

Best of luck to him!

\d
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on February 11, 2011, 02:15:46 am
He recognized some of the code.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on February 11, 2011, 11:49:57 pm
A question for those of you with the latest firmware (00.02.05.02.00):

What happens if you plug a memory stick with an older firmware file (DS1000Update.RGL) in to the usb port? Do you get any sort of message about firmware? Or does it completely ignore the file?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Vandel on February 12, 2011, 02:38:12 am
 Thought I would sign on here and let you guys know some more details on what I've been trying to do and where I'm having some problems.

Originally I thought it was running a flavour of cuLinux for the blackfin 5xx series processors, only to find that when I started doing some comparisons with code from the toolchain and also the kernel I realized I couldn't actually locate entry for the kernel or code that would have suggested it was running something else.  Since cuLinux uses a bFLT which should be easily identifed in the .RGL files.  I could still be wrong, as I'm still dissecting the hexadecimal mess that these files are made up of.  VisualDSP from Analog Devices uses a .DXE format and I'm struggling going through the .LDR bootloader format that they claim is required by the on-chip boot-rom interpreter, if it's in fact using that method... I believe the first 805686 bytes of the 2.05.01.02 firmware are the loader... directly followed by the first of 2 ELF headers easily found using an ASCII search.  I feel a bit silly as I missed them completely forgetting to tick the 'search ascii' while I was going through the hex file.  Uggghhh...

A bit earlier in the thread Bushing I guess was doing a bunch of the initial chipdumping when he wrote...

"There's no room for a hash, so you could do whatever you want to the file.   Unfortunately, this means that there's no sort of bootloader which could recover corrupted firmware, so your options would be to desolder the NOR flash holding the firmware and reprogram it using a chip programmer, or try to get the 13-pin JTAG-looking connector working."

He then followed up a bit later with...

"I was just plain wrong about the bootloader.  There are at least two, one of which has me mystified"

The internal boot ROM on the blackfin has an interesting tiny boot kernel that can either be directly bypassed or triggered during a chip reset or on power up to load processing code straight from an external memory device.  This is what allows .LDR wrapping and direct code interpretation that from what I understand bypasses and overwrites itself on the uART, or something along those lines allowing for a true no-boot mode... Interesting trick. From what I've been able to identify this firmware is using a wrapped .LDR module suggesting it does have a boot loader. Keep in mind this is heavy speculation still, but from what I've gathered so far from studying this, this is my most current speculation.  If anyone has any other insights, feel free to chime in.  I could use some help with this.

From what I get the DSP compilation and linking, basically ELF based during compilation when the toolchain apparently converts it to the native .DXE format, which in turn becomes a .LDR file? If I have the order right? I could be a bit confused on the process.  This has been a total crash course and it's making my head spin.  Anways, since cuLinux for microcontrollers has issues with the kernel compiling and what not under DSP, ADI does some absolute custom compilation and linking routines that are unique to their DSP development environment and for the Blackfin 533 processors... granted the limited ways this can be compiled and linked there's only so many choices out there.  Since I've been completely unable to identify anything that ressembles the GNU toolchain this leaves the VisualDSP environment or attaining one of the bootimage loader files that accomponies the DSP environment from ADI for comparison.  I'll admit, I have no idea how to use the DSP coding environment with the SDK that ADI provides, but someone out there might have more experience with this than me.  Regardless, what's more important is my focus on the comparison changes between the DSP USB/Pictbridge module they've imbeded as the plugin to do the USB stick reading and the interface with the PC, where it goes, and what it calls and the order.

As for the suggestions from ToBeFrank and my initial ideas of writing an emulator, or doing some sort of decompilation of the firmware this is a full fledged processor with  a complete 16 and 32 bit instruction set.  GDB apparently has a simluation environment under cuLinux that is capable of emulating most of the chipset, but it's buggy, and still doens't have a full set of the instruction implemented.  So...I hate to admit this, but my experience with this sort of thing without low level access to trace and breakpoint step through process with a real-time decompiler is grim.  Since I don't have a way to do this with the processor it leaves me painstakingly looking at this for changes betwen the Toolchain DSP code and the code that's in the .RGL files.

I was hoping to at least be optomistic about identifying the FILE/IO sections but even that isn't going well.  I've been systemically using a programming guide and the byte code variations attempting to write a custom decompiler of certain ranges of code that I think may contain the serial number checker.  The largest problem I'm having is addressing how memory is being mapped and what the DPS code is doing once it recognizes there's a .RGL file on a USB stick. If I could figure out how memory addresses are being stored, and looked at, this would be a whole lot easier.

Past that... a new file that shows up in the mangled header

AUTO_KEY_Lock&Unlock.RGL has also peaked my interest...

As well as the small block of 48 characters that preceeds it...

0012de53h: 73 68 91 ED 7C 3F B5 3F 1B 2F DD 24 06 81 B5 3F ; sh‘í|?µ?./Ý$.µ?
0012de63h: 0A DA E4 F0 49 27 42 3F F7 8F 85 E8 10 38 42 3F ; .ÚäðI'B?÷…è.8B?
0012de73h: 2D 43 1C EB E2 36 3A 3F 61 32 55 30 2A A9 43 3F ; -C.ëâ6:?a2U0*©C?

0000000ah: 82 85 84 88 C3 7B 47 92 39 C8 7E 60             ; ‚…„ˆÃ{G’9È~`

The serial number occurs at 12c7d5, 134925, 13600f, and 1362cf as straight text

My initial thought with the 3 keys was something like Des3... but that didn't work.  Tried a few different flavours of the algorithm to no avail.  Possibly RSA, 3-128 bit keys... I haven't converted them from hex to base 10 and checked for primality yet... got some old miller-rabin algortihms, I'll run those when I get back... any other ideas?  This could also be something completey in house, as marked by the Rigol Technologies marker from 2005.  That 48 byte key showed up injected when the header started getting scrambled.  Which leaves no choice but to decompile and interpret the code.  

3 other series keys exist in the file up a bit...

0012d21bh: C7 EB CA E4 C8 EB BE C9 BD E2 CB F8 C3 DC C2 EB ; ÇëÊäÈë¾É½âËøÃÜÂë
0012d22bh: 3A 00 00 00 50 6C 65 61 73 65 20 65 6E 74 65 72 ; :...Please enter
0012d23bh: 20 74 68 65 20 6F 6C 64 20 6B 65 79 73 3A 00 00 ;  the old keys:..
0012d24bh: C7 EB CA E4 C8 EB D0 C2 BD E2 CB F8 C3 DC C2 EB ; ÇëÊäÈëнâËøÃÜÂë
0012d25bh: 3A 00 00 00 50 6C 65 61 73 65 20 65 6E 74 65 72 ; :...Please enter
0012d26bh: 20 74 68 65 20 6E 65 77 20 6B 65 79 73 3A 00 00 ;  the new keys:..
0012d27bh: C7 EB D6 D8 D0 C2 CA E4 C8 EB D0 C2 BD E2 CB F8 ; ÇëÖØÐÂÊäÈëнâËø
0012d28bh: C3 DC C2 EB 3A 00 00 00 50 6C 65 61 73 65 20 72 ; ÃÜÂë:...Please r
0012d29bh: 65 65 6E 74 65 72 20 74 68 65 20 6E 65 77 20 6B ; eenter the new k
0012d2abh: 65 79 73 3A 00 00 00 00 C7 EB CA E4 C8 EB BD E2 ; eys:....ÇëÊäÈë½â
0012d2bbh: CB F8 C3 DC C2 EB 3A 00 50 6C 65 61 73 65 20 65 ; ËøÃÜÂë:.Please e
0012d2cbh: 6E 74 65 72 20 75 6E 6C 6F 63 6B 20 6B 65 79 73 ; nter unlock keys
0012d2dbh: 3A                                              ; :

Those 3 keys exist even in the unmangled 2.04 version of the firmware... so the code likely has been there all along, it was just never activated.  Or it was mistaken oversight on their part.  Dunno...

I'm not out of ideas yet... and I'm still plugging away...

Back to the ELF headers that are in the files.. doing what I can with knowledge of the structures and their formats, the 2 elf statements, I'm pretty sure are not what I think they are.  106 should be in there somewhere identifying them as Analog Devices header... which in hex would be 6A... the first one has 6a in the neighbourhood, but the 2nd one has no 6a near it... and they just don't seem right.  So this is what puts me back to thinking they're no-boot, no kernel... though there still the issue of VDK which is a potential inhouse ADI proprietary kernel.   But I can't find traces of it either.  Doesn't mean it's not in their, I think their just some obfuscations I'm overlooking.

Be well...

Vandel
[Torch's Son]
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on February 12, 2011, 03:23:04 am
@Vandel: cant you just bypass the encryption algorithm and find the branch where it will accept the new firmware or not, and crack from there? i dunno, might not be as simple as that ???
i was trying to take the challenge of dissambling it. but i stopped in very early of the process. attached is what i got so far from blackfin datasheet (programming manual iirc), i dont know what good it is to anybody out there. sharing anyway.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Vandel on February 12, 2011, 07:20:37 am
cant you just bypass the encryption algorithm and find the branch where it will accept the new firmware or not, and crack from there? i dunno, might not be as simple as that ???

Well, if this was an x86 based app, I'd have had this ripped apart, and fully customizable by now.  But unfortunately there are a few problems with something that would otherwise be trivial.

Without point of entry,  I can't calculate memory offsets.  This is a problem for 2 things.

1.  Jump offsets can't be calculated.
2.  I have no idea what chunk of code is looking at what sections of strings.

As soon as I can get memory offsets figured out, then all the byte to byte comparisons will be more useful. 

i was trying to take the challenge of dissambling it. but i stopped in very early of the process. attached is what i got so far from blackfin datasheet (programming manual iirc), i dont know what good it is to anybody out there. sharing anyway.

Well, you basically were doing what I've been doing for the past week and a bit.  Byte Code by painstaking Byte Code... I've yet to definitely identify what they used to compile and link it.  If this is actually doing stragiht injection in the processor then entry won't be presented as the code itself is initializing volatile memory space and doing things on the fly without the need for executable header table addressing.  This processor in my understanding is fully capable of doing just that.  I don't think Rigol intended this to be this difficult, but the fact that auto_key_lock algorithm has been around for a good 6 years, I suspect they may have done more than we give them credit for.

I don't have the funds to dump out for a usb blackfin emulator to  natively run the code base on.  But since I also don't know with absolute surety how the code is getting from the flash memory to the processor, I don't know what's doing the injection.  My understanding is it needs to be controlled with a PROM, but I'm still frantically reading through white papers trying to grasp as much as I can.   There may still actually be a boot loader there that's wrapping the kernel.  This obfuscation is what's making it very difficult to calculate offsets.

Normally yeah, it would just be a jump to bypass... flip a Jump if equal... to a Jump if not equal.  I've done more than my fair share of reverses and hacks over the years.  But this is taking the cake as this a completely foreign environment for me, and there's really not that much information on something that's very likely completely proprietary.  A lot of the toolchains are just barely out of alpha and reaching Release Candiate Stage despite these processors being around for a few years.

I have a couple of focuses I'm going to keep plugging away at.

1. Identify a loader... and it's size... this will give earliest offset to code that I can then use for 2.
2. Write a quick program to scan the file with brute force range of suspected memory entries for a given string.  The file isn't that large and I'm pretty sure most of it happens within the first 1.5 megs of the file.
3. Focus on byte code breakdowns of anything that hits those addresses instead of mass decompilation of the entire firmware package, which at present is basically impossible... but still plausible doable.  I'm one to hold to slim to nil, it's still something favourable...

  I'll keep you all updated.  I have some other development issues with some other things I'm struggling with in overlap...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on February 12, 2011, 07:59:53 am
i was thinking about the bootloader myself. without the dump (or the source), it will make the dissasembly even more difficult. as you said, ad hoc brute force method. too many problems for me made me abandon ship. i hope you have enough strength to continue the journey. i wish you luck.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: RJSC on February 12, 2011, 11:08:01 am
Yet another successful conversion of a DS1052E from DealExtreme.
It came with firmware version 00.02.05.01.00, Hardware revision 58.

Thank you all for sharing!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: roleo on February 13, 2011, 04:04:41 am
Hello everyone, this is my first post.

I purchased my Rigol DS1052E on ebay.
It arrived in 8 working days and everything went ok.
HW version is 58 and FW version is 00.02.05.01.02.
I saw the AndrewK post with fw downgrade attached but I haven't read a lot of feedback on it.
Has anyone successfully used the file 2.05.01.02_to_2.02sp2.zip?

Thanks.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jedreg on February 13, 2011, 05:36:15 am
After I choose rise and fall and it crashes, it hangs everytime I restart the unit, to get out of this loop I have to press the "AUTO" button on startup a couple times until it changes back to rise.

I have just experienced this on my own 2.05 SP1.  I found better recovery procedure however -- after the unit hungs, power off and power on again as usual; then during firmware startup hit "run/stop" immediatelly to stop acquisition before it starts first time. After that unit works fine (until started again) and you can easily change trigger mode ;)

Anyway, hack day is comming so this will not be any longer an issue.

cheers,
andy.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jedreg on February 13, 2011, 08:02:13 am
Another hacked rigol should be added to the list. In my case I started from 2.05 SP1 thru 2.02 SP1, hacked using safri's tool, and then back to 2.04 SP1. Everything went smooth, thanx to all great people contributing to this effort !!
cheers,
-andy.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on February 14, 2011, 03:24:11 am
Vandel,   the ascii text relating to unlock and autolock,  are the function buttons lock out text.   and allowing  user to set the code.    its nothing to do with the encryption of the file.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Vandel on February 14, 2011, 08:55:19 pm
@darrylp: Well... I figured it might be something similar to what all cellphones are equipped with, to lock out keys, as the function had a similar name.  Just the 14 byte sequences that preceded matches the xx.xx.xx.xx.xx in length that they use for the revision indexes... I was drawing at straws...

Thanks...

From 2.04.00.03, to 2.05.01.02 they changed format for a bunch of internal files.  The internal subset of commands changed drastically.  Afor the rest of this mess... I'm jumping ship... without a way to run this with any sort of step through, I'm at a total loss... I've been unable after looking at 77 bootloader images and about 8 subsets of toolchains, I can't get anything to match.  This is beyond my capabilities at this point.  Sorry I couldn't help...

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: EE_Alan on February 16, 2011, 02:39:56 am
Hi Guys

Got My DS1052E Scope from Aidetek Today Its a DS1052E

FW Version 00.02.05.02.00     ( 2.05 SP2 I think )
HW Version 58

Now waiting Anxiously for a hack...
50MHz if perfect for my work, but the extra bandwidth would be great.
As it stands its a very impressive piece of kit for the price!

Is there any way to contribute that may help the community?

Regards
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: darrylp on February 16, 2011, 04:55:57 am
Hi Guys

Got My DS1052E Scope from Aidetek Today Its a DS1052E

FW Version 00.02.05.02.00     ( 2.05 SP2 I think )
HW Version 58

Now waiting Anxiously for a hack...
50MHz if perfect for my work, but the extra bandwidth would be great.
As it stands its a very impressive piece of kit for the price!

Is there any way to contribute that may help the community?

Regards



one way to help,  is to find a bug with this firmware version,   get it reported to Rigol, and hopefully they will fix it,  thus allowing users to to then do a real upgrade on it along with the 100MHz hack.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: therian on February 22, 2011, 04:06:00 am
My  HW Version 07  :o
It is original ds1102e
Is it a bug after update or I was lucky one getting really old scope ?  

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: hacklordsniper on February 22, 2011, 05:41:26 am
Is it possible to download 2.5 SP2 somwhere?

Edit: Found it here http://www.eevforum.com/index.php?topic=553.465 (http://www.eevforum.com/index.php?topic=553.465)  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 03, 2011, 03:48:14 am
minutes ago, i just upgraded my rigol upgrade utility app to include upgrade to DS1152E (still default to 1102 hack). the procedure is the same as DS1102E mod, ie change model to DS1152E and then change serial to become DS1EF***. and then i tried to find in eevblog 1052 threads the concrete method of doing this 150MHz hack, none! esp the serial number modding, which people like dimlow suggesting giving the same DS1EB**** after the model mod DS1152E. after rethinking, i cancel my intention to upload the updated app, i will hold it until i find a bright light to this. still too scared to upgrade mine to 150MHz unit, and the auto addition of EDU in model info suggesting rigol already thought of this during the design, maybe it means for educational purpose only? i dont know, but i dont feel right. so any advice is welcomed.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gordo51 on March 09, 2011, 01:12:15 pm
Just thought I would chime in here to say last Sunday I hacked my newly aquired 00.02.05.01.02 scope to 100MHz. I went through the calibration process and reset to factory initial settings with no problems.  As far as I can tell the scope works fine. I used the guide provided by Polossatik, AndrewK's RGL file and Shafri's Rigupgr application. I did almost use the wrong RGL file as in 3(c)of Polossatik's procedure it mentions using the 02.05.01.02 patch but this is for scopes that are 02.05.01.01, not the 05.01.02 scopes. AndrewK's file mentioned in 3 (d) is "2.05.01.02 to 2.02 SP2". I got the following MD5 sum for Andrew's RGL file:
4445a02a71ddf670cccba00fdbeb67cf
My scope came as 00.02.05.01.02, DSP 00.00, FPGA 02.00, HardVersion 58
I am now 00.02.04.01.02, DSP 02.20, FPGA 02.00 and HardVision 58
Does anyone know if there is any real advantage to upgrading to the 04.01.03 software or higher?

I ordered my scope from Deal Excel on Feb7 and it arrived in WA in about 2 weeks. It was in a Rigol box with the end flaps cut off as others have mentioned. The packing could be a little more robust for overseas shipping but the box was in good shape so maybe they are treated well.  I am just an old fart (60) who has been puttering around in electronics for the last 20 years, ever since I discovered I could buy test equipment and parts on eBay for cheap. I have no training in electronics, just what I can pick up in books.
I have accumulated quite a few old scopes over that time and I'd say this Rigol is a really nice unit. Seems to be quite well built and looks more professional than some of the Agilent scopes in the same price range.  The only one I have which is somewhat similar is a Tek TDS 320 that I bought for $150 since only CH1 will aquire a signal. I have not had a chance to directly compare them yet.  Hope to do more real experimenting when I retire and have more time.  Thanks to everyone for working on this project and thanks to Dave for an interesting blog and for putting out the information.
cheers,
Gordon



Hi Guys

Got My DS1052E Scope from Aidetek Today Its a DS1052E

FW Version 00.02.05.02.00     ( 2.05 SP2 I think )
HW Version 58

Now waiting Anxiously for a hack...
50MHz if perfect for my work, but the extra bandwidth would be great.
As it stands its a very impressive piece of kit for the price!

Is there any way to contribute that may help the community?

Regards

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: roleo on March 10, 2011, 06:47:46 am
I can confirm the same situation as gordo51.
00.02.05.01.02
DSP: 00.00
FPGA:02.00
HardVersion:58

Hack ok!

Thanks to all
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: kyren on March 12, 2011, 10:14:23 am
Well, got my scope today from Saelig and... <drumroll>

FW Version 00.02.05.02.00
HW Version 58

So I guess I'm SOL until a new hack is found.  This all started as a hardware hack, right?  If there turns out to be no way to ever hack a 02.05.02.00 scope, would it still be possible to modify it in hardware?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on March 12, 2011, 11:26:12 pm
YES  :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: AndrewK on March 13, 2011, 12:39:41 am
I can confirm the same situation as gordo51.
00.02.05.01.02
DSP: 00.00
FPGA:02.00
HardVersion:58

Hack ok!

Thanks to all
Great job, roleo! ;) 8)
Welcome!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: kyren on March 14, 2011, 11:08:07 am
What kind of damage can you do when the scope is in the special "extended" version of the system info screen?  I accidentally did the "channel 1 x2, channel 2 x2, math" sequence with that screen already displaying, because I wasn't paying attention.  Everything seems fine, what might I have done?

I know it was really stupid of me to do that, it's just that I backed out of that menu, did some other stuff, and then went back.  I didn't realize that the "extended" mode would still be enabled, and without thinking I did the sequence again, *then* realized that it was already showing the extended info.

I re-calibrated the scope and everything seems fine (it actually seemed fine even before I did that).  Did I dodge a bullet?  Did I screw something up I can't immediately see?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: drieg on March 15, 2011, 05:26:42 am
Latest fimwares are immune to this issue, my message was refering to older firmwares... stay cool 8)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: kyren on March 15, 2011, 05:47:14 am
Latest fimwares are immune to this issue, my message was refering to older firmwares... stay cool 8)

Okay, that's a relief :D  Thanks drieg!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on March 15, 2011, 11:14:07 pm
Hello,

I have received my DS1052E today from DealExtreme. Looks like no hack for me at the moment. Details of my version below:

DS1ED125xxxxxx
Software: 00.02.05.02.00
DSP: 00.00
FPGA: 02.00
HardVersion: 58

Fingers crossed for the future.

John.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: pumex on March 20, 2011, 01:57:13 am
My Rigol have same version  00.02.05.02.00

Must wait for better time....
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Deckardsvr on March 23, 2011, 04:58:49 pm
Hi, i successfully changed my DS1052E to DS1102E
original firmware was 00.02.05.01.02 hardversion:58
- used the 2.05.01.02_to_2.02sp2 firmware downgrade
- rigupgred the scope and finally upgraded to 00.02.04 SP1
it works like a charm down to 2ns
thank you guys for all the good work  ;) .
regards
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: UnaClocker on March 25, 2011, 05:31:31 pm
Well, got my scope today from Saelig and... <drumroll>

FW Version 00.02.05.02.00
HW Version 58

So I guess I'm SOL until a new hack is found.  This all started as a hardware hack, right?  If there turns out to be no way to ever hack a 02.05.02.00 scope, would it still be possible to modify it in hardware?
I'm in the same boat. I ordered my scope from DealExtreme on Feb 25th, got it today, March 24th, and it's got this new firmware on it. Anyone got a link to the hardware hack? Or should I just be patient and wait for someone to figure out a work around for this firmware?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on March 26, 2011, 04:35:04 am
I think the hardware hack is here - I'm not sure its for me right now.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.210 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.210)

I think I'll wait for progress on the firmware route.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: daurnimator on March 31, 2011, 12:17:18 pm
Got mine today from deal extreme;
Came with 00.02.05.02.00 (00.02.05 SP2)
Hardware version 58

==> Advice?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tonva on April 02, 2011, 09:16:19 am
I have received my DS1052E today from DealExtreme. Looks like no hack for me at the moment. Details of my version below:
DS1ED125xxxxxx
Software: 00.02.05.02.00
DSP: 00.00
FPGA: 02.00
HardVersion: 58
Greetings to all my 02.05.02.00 brothers.

I have spent quite an eternity googling for hack. Seems there is just one method used - downgrade the scope to 02.02 SP2 version, then change scope ID and update back to the latest (or any you like) version.

Till version 02.05.01 the downgrading was possible using patched 02.02 SP2 firmware, which fooled the installed version. To understand how, compare DS1000EUpdate.RGL files (actually just first 32 bytes are involved). You need the original (or even patched) 02.02 SP2 version, and the update file to (at least) ONE LEVEL HIGHER version than you have installed in the scope (in our case, something like 02.05.03). Then rewrite the few bytes at the very beginning of the 02.02 SP2 file by corresponding bytes from the update and voila - downgrading file is here. So we have to wait until Rigol guys release new version and then we will see. Or the same method will work (pray for that), or not.

But even if they definitely succeed to stop hacking the DS1052E scopes this way, there is allways another way. Unfortunately not so easy, as it requires chip unsoldering. Look at http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1379.0 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1379.0) for details. AFAIK the procedure working for completely bricked scope will work for unbricked as well.

------------------
 IMPORTANT EDIT
------------------

Thanks to 'maze' and 'A Hellene' the header secrets disclosed. Congratulation!
For 2.05 SP2 to 2.02 downgrade header see
A successful attempt to create an update.header file for the unhackable 2.05 SP2


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 02, 2011, 09:58:58 am
From what I remember reading around here, there's two parts to the flash memory -- one part contains configuration data unique to the individual scope, the other contains the firmware.

Question for Drieg:
Would it be possible for someone to treat this the same way you have been repairing bricked scopes, stitching a replacement firmware section with the configuration section?

Nowhere near as convenient -- the chip must be de-soldered first -- but would this work? 
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tonva on April 03, 2011, 03:10:48 am
....
Question for Drieg:
Would it be possible for someone to treat this the same way you have been repairing bricked scopes, stitching a replacement firmware section with the configuration section?
Nowhere near as convenient -- the chip must be de-soldered first -- but would this work? 

Yeah, right question.  May be we will also look around for some other "nondestructive" way to do that. May be it is possible to read/write flash trough embedded CPU controlled by JTAG interface, or there are some hidden "undocumented functions" used by Rigol guys for assembled system inspection/tweaking ????   
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: papilucio on April 04, 2011, 09:47:27 pm
A bug  has been reported on the product page of Dealextreme.com :
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/rigol-ds1052e-5-6-tft-lcd-50mhz-2-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-30573 (http://www.dealextreme.com/p/rigol-ds1052e-5-6-tft-lcd-50mhz-2-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-30573)

"Posted by  AviHM  on 4/1/2011
(...)
The instrument stops functioning if you do the following:
Pressing up and down on the slope sub-menu under trigger menu will cause the instrument to stop working.
Display freaks out and it won't return to normal operation even if you turn it off.
I found that the only way to restore operation is to press on RUN/STOP button at start and to try get it out of the loop it entered. It is not a temporary glitch. "

Anyone aware of this ? Maybe some hope for a new firmware update ?

Luc
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Stonehedge on April 04, 2011, 09:49:53 pm
Hi guys, this is only my second post in this forum. I posted in the "DS1052E Up to 150Mhz" thread to inform that I have succeeded in upgrading my DS1052E to DS1152E using files and utilities found on this site.

I bought a slightly used oscilloscope from an internet auction mainly due to the restrictions in later software releases from Rigol. My oscilloscope came with software 02.04 SP1 and hardware 58 and was easily upgraded.

Again thank you to all that provided threads, files and utilities. You made a fantastic work.

//typo
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: drieg on April 04, 2011, 11:30:27 pm
Question for Drieg:
Would it be possible for someone to treat this the same way you have been repairing bricked scopes, stitching a replacement firmware section with the configuration section?

Nowhere near as convenient -- the chip must be de-soldered first -- but would this work?  

Yes, it is possible.  8)

So for those with 2.05 SP2 firmware, who don't want to wait until (if at all) Rigol releases newer firmware to make the hack possible again, and if you don't mind sending me your mainboard...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: scrat on April 04, 2011, 11:55:00 pm
Question for Drieg:
Would it be possible for someone to treat this the same way you have been repairing bricked scopes, stitching a replacement firmware section with the configuration section?

Nowhere near as convenient -- the chip must be de-soldered first -- but would this work? 

Yes, it is possible.  8)

So for those with 2.05 SP2 firmware, who don't want to wait until (if at all) Rigol releases newer firmware to make the hack possible again, and if you don't mind sending me your mainboard...

Would the calibration data be lost with that procedure?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: drieg on April 05, 2011, 12:19:25 am
No, why?! Nothing will be lost.
No loss, no soldering, full backup and... NO CHARGE  ;D

...and please don't ask me for details, I really can't tell you, sorry.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: scrat on April 05, 2011, 12:55:11 am
Amazing, Drieg, you must have some kind of black magic! :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: krater on April 05, 2011, 02:33:03 am
hey drieg,

i think you use jtag for this, yes ?
which program and which configurations you use ? how do you connect the jtag adapter ? what changes you make on the flash  ?

cheers,
krater
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on April 05, 2011, 08:52:43 pm
hey drieg,

i think you use jtag for this, yes ?
which program and which configurations you use ? how do you connect the jtag adapter ? what changes you make on the flash  ?

cheers,
krater

No, why?! Nothing will be lost.
No loss, no soldering, full backup and... NO CHARGE  ;D

...and please don't ask me for details, I really can't tell you, sorry.

respect the dude man  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on April 06, 2011, 02:20:48 am
I like Drieg's new Avatar  :D

Generous people like Drieg are sadly rare these days and I am very glad he is a member of this forum and willing to help those in need.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: drieg on April 06, 2011, 03:35:00 am
Thanks :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 06, 2011, 05:10:23 am
He is a dedicated DSO doctor. you need to go to U in order to be like him ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: MickM on April 06, 2011, 05:19:26 pm
I agree "respect the dude man ".
He said he cannot tell, so why are you asking?

Anyway I just got my scope today from Saelig.
$400 with free bag, and free shipping.
(I live near Seattle).

Here is the info:
power up: 8
Serial: DS1ED124915xxx
Ver: 00.02.05.02.00

DSP: 00.00
FPGA: 02.00
HW: 58

Calibrated 7-Dec-2010

It is kind of intimidating.
I am used to older analog scopes only.
Are there any tutorials or videos on using this scope?
I know for sure that there are features that I have never heard of in it.
(Math for one).

I went ahead and registered it at rigolna and downloaded the software app for it.
I have not installed it yet.

Does the latest package from Rigol "just run" or is there a magic incantation to be done first.
USB/drivers/libs/DLL/MSI etc?


I run Fedora 14 x64, but have a Win7 x86 box available,

Thanks
  Mick M.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: krater on April 08, 2011, 05:09:06 am
Oh, i doesn't read the thread complete. When he said he can not tell, okay, maybee there is a real reason to don't give us the infos.

But he can't upgrade all our scopes, maybee i'm not in the right forum, but if there is anyone who can give infos about using jtag with rigol scope, please talk to me...
I think it's not a big problem to upgrade the scope without any risk if you have a working jtag connection to the cpu. Next step should be a firmware update that ignores the configured bandwith and everytime switchs to 100MHz.

Is there anyone who has experience in blackfin assembly ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 08, 2011, 05:11:26 am
I suggest that Drieg has a full picture of the challenges.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 08, 2011, 05:15:41 am
Is there anyone who has experience in blackfin assembly ?
once i asked the same question. few weeks/months back there is an attempt. pls rewind and read previous posts from this thread.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: maze on April 08, 2011, 06:36:09 am
Having a new scope as well, I looked a little into the new firmware headers:
"44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 82 85 84 88 C3 7B" (02.05.01.00, first line)
calculates with CRC-32 to C8399247
"47 92 39 C8 7E 60 00 80 FF 04 00 00 00 10 00 AE" (02.05.01.00, second line)
The first four numbers look like the CRC-32.

"44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 82 85 82 88 C0 7E" (02.05.02.00, first line)
calculates with CRC-32 to B6156AD7
"D7 6A 15 B6 B6 60 00 80 FF 04 00 00 00 10 00 AE" (02.05.02.00, second line)
The first four numbers look like the CRC-32, again.

Still..I don't know if the 5th number is another checksum, and the version format in the first line.

Maybe someone to play with this info, and figure out more details.
Title: A successful attempt to create an update.header file for the unhackable 2.05 SP2
Post by: A Hellene on April 21, 2011, 10:53:44 am
This is a newcomer from Hellas, as the screen name reveals. A grateful one, if I might add...

«Εύρηκα!» ("I have found (it)!"; "Eureka" is the English transliteration; from the verb «ευρίσκω», meaning "to find, find out").

«Εύρηκα!» exclaimed Archimedes (287-212 BCE), the ancient Greek scholar from Syracuse, the moment he noticed that the water level rose when he stepped into his bath, suddenly realising that the volume of water displaced had to be equal to the volume of the part of his body he had submerged into the water!
So, «Εύρηκα!» will be the exclamation I will borrow to express my triumphalism. Let me explain myself. I faced the v2.05 SP2 situation, also; and reading maze's excellent observation, above, about the CRC-32 checksum bytes within the header files, I decided to give it a go.

Analysing the headers (the first 21 bytes) of the three known 2.05.xx firmware revisions (yes, I did some digging), the format of the firmware header becomes more obvious, since a third different firmware header confirms maze's speculation. So, here is a summary and some thoughts:

Code: [Select]
HEX Address: 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 10 11 12 13 14
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
v2.05.01.00: 44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 82 85 84 88 C3 7B 47 92 39 C8 7E
v2.05.01.02: 44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 82 85 84 82 8B B8 96 41 63 FF 33
v2.05.02.00: 44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 82 85 82 88 C0 7E D7 6A 15 B6 B6
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Fields: |<------ Std. header -------->|<-FW rev.->|<-?->|<- CRC32 ->|??|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
v2.05.02.01: 44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Byte(00..09) = Std. header = 0x44533130303045202020
  Byte(0A..0D) = FW rev. = 0x________
  Byte(0E..0F) = ? = 0x____
  Byte(13..10) = CRC-32(00..0F) = 0x________
  Byte(14)     = ?? = 0x__

So, we have five unknown values to figure out, in order to create a header version equal or grater to v2.05.02.01, to trigger a firmware update event. The unknown parts are four, actually, since the Bytes(00..09) are standard in all the firmware revisions.
Based on another observation, the four FW revision bytes could be just remapped to a non humanly readable format (unlike the ASCII string in the pre-v2.05 FW versions) and not necessarily be encrypted --even though the instrument has a number-crunching beast under the hood. Additionally, for backwards compatibility, the absolute hexadecimal value of the four FW revision bytes word should be greater than the corresponding value at any previous revisions.
Finally, since the other two figures at the header positions Byte(0E..0F) and Byte(14) do not seem to be something meaningful like CRC16/ CRC8/ product/ sum/ remainder/ etc., they could just be random values.
So, assuming that the firmware revision number bytes are correctly mapped (0x88 = '0', 0x84 = '1', 0x82 = '2' and 0x85 = '5'), I made the following experiment:

1. I set the <FW rev.> Bytes(0A..0D) equal to: [82 85 82 84], to reflect the desired target revision number: [2.5.2.1].
2. Since it is unknown what the Bytes(0E..0F) and Byte(14) represent, I copied them directly from the firmware header file v2.05.01.00, which are [C3 7B] and [7E] respectively. I think I could just add null bytes at these positions, though I am not sure that these locations can have random values.
3. I created the 2.05.02.01.header with the first 16 bytes of the <Std. header>.
4. I calculated the CRC32 checksum of the incomplete 2.05.02.01.header file, which is 0xE44834FF and reversed its byte order to: [FF 34 48 E4], as this seems to be the case at the original files, above.
5. I edited the 2.05.02.01.header file, adding the CRC32 reversed byte-order word, and also added the Byte(14) mentioned above, which is equal to [7E].
6. Done! the new header file's contents are:
Code: [Select]
HEX Address: 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 10 11 12 13 14
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
v2.05.02.01: 44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 82 85 82 84 C3 7B FF 34 48 E4 7E
    Fields: |<------ Std. header -------->|<-FW rev.->|<-?->|<- CRC32 ->|??|

7. Finally, I created a <DS1000EUpdate.RGL> file by joining binary the new 2.05.02.01.header and the 2.02.02.00.rom files, using the following CMD (from darrylp):
Code: [Select]
copy /B 2.05.02.01.header + 2.02.02.00.rom DS1000EUpdate.RGL
The newly created <DS1000EUpdate.RGL> firmware file is v2.02 SP2 actually, which allows the user to change the model and the serial numbers to meet those of DS1052E, DS1102E or DS1152E, using Mechatrommer's (aka: shafri's) USB utility, and to be updated to v2.04 SP1 or even to v2.05 SP2, since it is easy and safe now to be reverting back to v2.02 SP2 over and over!


NOTE 1: I do not encourage anyone to experiment with their instruments' firmware and/or hardware; even though I have been 100% successful in my attempts I described. But, if anyone chooses to, I will strongly suggest them *NOT* to run "Auto-Calibration" on any HW58 models, while a firmware lower than the v2.04 SP1 is loaded.

NOTE 2*: Though I have successfully downgraded my scope's firmware from v2.05 SP2 to v2.02 SP2, changed the model to DS1152E and loaded the firmware v2.04 SP1, I finally chose to update it to v2.05 SP2 since I can undo this action at will, because I assume that v2.05 SP2 must have some improvements over the v2.04 SP1, along with the new "unhackable" format... But I do not really know that.
UPDATE: See: EDIT, 2011.05.14, below.

NOTE 3: I could have done nothing at all of the above, had I not been "standing on the shoulders of giants," meaning all these fine people that have worked and contributed to this project.
__________


A few additional thoughts: This is a dirt cheap and quite noisy oscilloscope --not to mention its audible fan. But, if (and when) I'll find some time, I will try to design a brand new hybrid PSU (a more flexible switching one with fast analog regulators at the outputs) to replace the original one, since the scope has not been measured to consume more than 25VA (NOT Watts!) from 230VAC. Because the PSU does not have a PFC stage (hence, 25VA != 25W) and the huge heatsinks of the linear regulators are getting really hot during operation (meaning that the PSU wastes lots of power), I think that the actual power requirements of the instrument could actually be as low as 10..15W only. But this can be accurately measured when I will decide to break the warranty seal.

This perspective opens the possibility to make the instrument portable, by using a rechargeable battery as an alternative power source, which could be recharged by the new PSU, too --even if this raises the design complexity... I guess that some people see the design challenges rather as a game than as a burden or a waste of time...

Last but not least, I should not forget to thank you all for your courtesy and the contribution to the wider community!


-George



[EDIT, 2011.04.21]: Spelling and additional information.

[EDIT, 2011.04.21]: 2.05.02.01.header file attached (and, of course, even more spelling corrected...)
Code: [Select]
2.05.02.01.header checksums:
CRC32: 719FAB26
MD5:   B058467F61FF6D62712A64B3F8E8D0F8
SHA-1: 54217AFA199A05BBFBC908CE71DD2039D7C1F78A

[EDIT, 2011.05.02]: 2.05 SP2 to 2.02 SP2 (v2.05.02.00 to v2.02.02.00) downgrade firmware attatched!
This is what I should have done in the first place, since I did not foresee the confusion I would stir by firstly posting the HEX string only and, right after that, attaching the *.header file alone... So, here is the whole deal!
Code: [Select]
DS1000EUpdate.RGL checksum & hashes:
CRC32: 0C2CE1E8
MD5:   F7C861576FE9EFEAF08C3E449F3527F0
SHA-1: EA262979BF58A5E758AC827BA187A67355959266

[EDIT, 2011.05.14]: (*) Some additional thoughts regarding my second note, above, about using the FW v2.02 SP2:
It has been reported (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2788.0) some kind of screen flickering on the most recently purchased DS1052E's. Since all the firmware revisions after v2.04 SP1 and before 2.05 SP2 have been reported to be buggy (locking up the devices until reboot, under certain circumstances), 2.05 SP2 itself could also be a problematic piece of firmware that probably causes the flickering mentioned before.
Fortunately, screen flickering is reported to disappear (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2788.msg43113#msg43113) when reverting back to FW v2.04 SP1.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 21, 2011, 01:22:06 pm
Boy, that's one hell of a first post!!!

Very nicely done. Only one possible improvement: you could attach the modified file and maybe tell us the MD5 checksum.  :D

I'm one of the lucky ones with an earlier firmware, but thanks for your contribution to this project. I look forward to seeing your proposed power supply.

I wonder if this thing could be battery operated?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on April 21, 2011, 01:56:19 pm
Thank you very much, torch

What you asked for, is easy!
I will now edit my message to attach the header file.


Thanks, again,
-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on April 21, 2011, 04:41:31 pm
Hi George,
Congratulations on your work. You make a wish come true for a lot of DS1052E-owners.
With your input, I was able to make the software to "upgrade" the DS1052E from 5.02SP2 to 2.02SP2.
I add the software, so everyone can use it.
Thanks again for all the help from so many people on this forum!

Regards, Frank.

MD5-check: f7c861576fe9efeaf08c3e449f3527f0
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on April 21, 2011, 04:45:22 pm
You are welcome, Frank,

... and thank you, too!
-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 21, 2011, 07:04:52 pm
Hi George,

I haven't tried it yet but I do so applaud your achievement.

Well done!!!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on April 21, 2011, 07:08:01 pm
Excellent work George.

I am fortunate to have a 2.04SP1 DS1052E but your message still makes facinating reading.
I applaud your achievement and community spirit.  :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on April 21, 2011, 07:18:43 pm
Thank you, joh!
Aurora, thank you, too!

But I did not do it all by myself; not at all! I just added my little piece to the bigger picture.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 21, 2011, 07:31:10 pm
Hi George, you noted:
NOTE 2: Though I have successfully downgraded my scope's firmware from v2.05 SP2 to v2.02 SP2, changed the model to DS1152E and loaded the firmware v2.04 SP1, I finally chose to update it to v2.05 SP2 since I can undo this action at will, because I assume that v2.05 SP2 must have some improvements over the v2.04 SP1 along with the new "unhackable" format... But I do not really know that.

With you approach do you still retain the DS1152E functionality?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on April 21, 2011, 07:49:51 pm
Oh, yes! Absolutely! Full functionality, no additional noise induced nor any offset, scaling error or mis-calibration; plus the 2.0ns/div timescale and the full 170MHz instrument bandwidth. But the main advantage is the ability to reload the patched v2.02 SP2 at any given time, to reconfigure everything from scratch!


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 21, 2011, 09:27:29 pm
I downloaded the file and using HashCalc, came up with an MD5 hash value of:
f7c861576fe9efeaf08c3e449f3527f0
Can you confirm that this is correct?

Checking the MD5 hash of the file before installing it is a good way to avoid bricking the scope by accidentally installing a corrupt firmware.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on April 21, 2011, 09:35:54 pm
Just downloaded my uploaded file, which is the "2.05.02.01.header.zip"

Code: [Select]
"2.05.02.01.header.zip" file checksums:
CRC32: 32FF29996A
MD5:   DDFC582366294ABC2CBAC0DEC739C2FF
SHA-1: 4AC196839902AD850B2630FBBA7E3BB6205DB7E7

"2.05.02.01.header" file checksums:
CRC32: 719FAB26
MD5:   B058467F61FF6D62712A64B3F8E8D0F8
SHA-1: 54217AFA199A05BBFBC908CE71DD2039D7C1F78A



[EDIT] You can also open the *.header file with a hex editor and confirm that the file contents are the same to those at my first message:
Code: [Select]
HEX Address: 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 10 11 12 13 14
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
v2.05.02.01: 44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 82 85 82 84 C3 7B FF 34 48 E4 7E
    Fields: |<------ Std. header -------->|<-FW rev.->|<-?->|<- CRC32 ->|??|
Title: Re: A successful attempt to create an update.header file for the unhackable 2.05 SP2
Post by: nixxon on April 21, 2011, 10:57:38 pm
2. Since it is unknown what the Bytes(0E..0F) and Byte(14) represent, I copied them directly from the firmware header file v2.05.01.00, which are [C3 7B] and [7E] respectively. I think I could just add null bytes at these positions, though I am not sure that these locations can have random values.


Nice progress, community and individuals :D

How likely is it that the 3 mentioned bytes (that were simply copied from the original firmware) may cause undesired or unknown effects?

I am waiting for my DS1052E from Dealextreme. They informed me a week ago that the item is shipped with FW 02.05 SP1. Even so, I guess it will have 02.05 SP2 as the other buyers write in their reviews. Because of some nice reverse engineering it seems I will be able to upgrade to "DS1102E" even if the scope should arrive with FW 02.05 SP2  ;D

Nixxon
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on April 22, 2011, 01:05:44 am
Nixxon,

I believe the key challenge here was to 'trick' the DS1052E into entering firmware update mode. Once this was achieved and the modified 2.02SP1 firmware loaded to allow the upgrade to 100MHz, the DSO is returned to a known good and unmodified firmware (standard header). The issue of incorrect or unknown bytes in the header of the previous modified 2.02SP1 firmware becomes a moot point. As has been stated several times before, never auto-calibrate a HW58 DSO unless it is running a genuine 2.04SP1 or later firmware.

Rigol have concentrated on trying to prevent users getting the DSO into it's firmware update mode as that is it's Achillies heel for the purposes of hacking. Their header change is quite clever but where there is a will there is often a way, and this thread just proves it  ;D

I never cease to be amazed at the knowledge that can be brought to bear on a challenge by this Forum.... I am an analogue world tech with just enough digital knowledge to stay out of trouble....hacking firmwares and reverse engineering such is beyond me. I salute those with such skills and all who have helped the techie community to extend the capability of this great value DSO.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: bhunting on April 22, 2011, 02:08:57 am
I have a scope with the 2.05 SP2 FW so I am going to try George's excellent hack. 

Once I've done the hack how do I get back to 2.05 SP2, or any other particular fw? 

Does anyone have a list of links to the various known good firmwares? 

Can I down load my present firmware out of the scope before the hack? 

I searched Rigol's site and did not see a link to latest firmwares.

thanks for all of the excellent and interesting work
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 22, 2011, 03:32:15 am

MD5:   B058467F61FF6D62712A64B3F8E8D0F8

I saw that and thought "Oh oh, they're different!" Then I realized your file is just the header alone, Frank's file is the entire firmware.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 22, 2011, 06:02:43 am
Hi George,

Do you have the hash of the full file (header & code) that you actually upgraded your scope with. I would like to double check that everything is as you had it when I upgrade.

Best Regards, John.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ed06 on April 22, 2011, 05:13:00 pm
f7c861576fe9efeaf08c3e449f3527f0

I just did it by putting the header on the 02.02SP2 firmware. The above is the MD5 of the file.

A few days ago received rigol with this firmware (00.02.05 SP2).
Problems seen with SP1 is not found.
Please give someone got upgraded to 1102 and details.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 22, 2011, 07:48:00 pm
Thanks George, that matches the value calculated by Torch for his file.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 22, 2011, 07:53:36 pm
ed06, have you taken a look at page 1 of this thread?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 22, 2011, 08:37:56 pm
Hi George, sorry to be a pain, fame has it price you now realise!

You note that I finally chose to update it to v2.05 SP2 since I can undo this .... May I asked where you obtained v2.05SP2?

John.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on April 22, 2011, 08:59:40 pm
Hi Joh,

According to me, you can find the 2.05SP2 here: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg31373#msg31373 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg31373#msg31373)

Greetings, Frank.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jrag on April 22, 2011, 09:04:38 pm
Hi EEVbloguers, just yesterday I had my Rigol DS1052E with the latest 2.05 SP2 firmware, and now I have the Rigol DS1052E possessed with the spirit of a DS1102E  :P , thanks A Hellene for the amazing job, and thanks to all the others contributers.
I've attached the hacked 2.05 SP2 to 2.02 SP2, and the original 2.05 SP2 for you to update after the hack.
Everything you need is in page one http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.0 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.0) .

Hash (of the firmwares, not the .zip or .rar):
2.05SP2_to_2.02SP2
MD5: f7c861576fe9efeaf08c3e449f3527f0

00.02.05.02_original
MD5: 9c28690d8d5a5690b7340fda943f5549
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 22, 2011, 09:53:15 pm
I have a scope with the 2.05 SP2 FW so I am going to try George's excellent hack. 

Once I've done the hack how do I get back to 2.05 SP2, or any other particular fw? 

Does anyone have a list of links to the various known good firmwares? 

Can I down load my present firmware out of the scope before the hack? 

I searched Rigol's site and did not see a link to latest firmwares.

thanks for all of the excellent and interesting work

2.04SP1 Was first posted by d0ss here: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19908;topicseen#msg19908 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg19908;topicseen#msg19908) (I'll attach another copy to this for your convenience). It has widely been held to be the best option for HW58 models, as later versions introduced bugs in the triggering software -- presumably because Rigol rushed later ones out to try and defeat the hack without adequate testing.

That said, there have not been any  reports of bugs in the latest (2.05 SP2) firmware. It may or may not be equal to 2.04 SP1. Your choice which one to try.

The md5 for the attached file (after extraction) is bcf73565352391935f3a9651d30776ee.

Carefully review the very first post in this thread, which has been updated with each new development for the upgrade procedure. But basically the routine is to downgrade to 2.02 SP2, Hack the model code to 1102 with shafri's script tool and a USB cable, then upgrade the firmware to 2.04 SP1 and pat yourself on the back for getting a 100mHz scope for half price.  :D

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on April 23, 2011, 01:43:09 am
I re-edited my message (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404) and attached the firmware, as well.

Quote from: A Hellene
[EDIT]: 2.05 SP2 to 2.02 SP2 (v2.05.02.00 to v2.02.02.00) downgrade firmware attatched!
This is what I should have done in the first place, since I did not foresee the confusion I would stir by firstly posting the HEX string only and, right after that, attaching the *.header file alone... So, here is the whole deal!
Sorry for the confusion, guys; and enjoy that piece of code!


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 23, 2011, 02:03:01 am
You have earned lots of slack should you need to call on it.

Many thanks George, and those who's shoulders you stood upon.

Take care, John.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on April 23, 2011, 02:13:44 am
LOL!!!

Thank you, John!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on April 23, 2011, 03:25:01 am
I re-edited my message (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404) and attached the firmware, as well.

Quote from: A Hellene
[EDIT]: 2.05 SP2 to 2.02 SP2 (v2.05.02.00 to v2.02.02.00) downgrade firmware attatched!
This is what I should have done in the first place, since I did not foresee the confusion I would stir by firstly posting the HEX string only and, right after that, attaching the *.header file alone... So, here is the whole deal!
Sorry for the confusion, guys; and enjoy that piece of code!


-George

updated the first post with little linky to your post :)

cheerio!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on April 23, 2011, 03:55:12 am
Thank you, Polossatik!

By the way, the header I compiled can trigger an update event from every known firmware revision known, up to date; it does not work only with last one (which now is v2.05 SP2 / 02.05.02.00)!


Cheers,
-George

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Polossatik on April 23, 2011, 04:24:31 am
yeah, I know, no time now to rewrite stuff, will do soon :)
Title: 00.02.05.02.00 changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Cyclenorthman on April 25, 2011, 02:57:37 am
00.02.05.02.00  Hack attack? I would like to hear from anyone if and how they did it and what problems or bugs may have happened. There is so much information on this and so many OS versions to deal with and reading is not my strongest point plus the time to try and take it all in. Also, I am more of a hardware guy than SW.Thanks to "A H****" for your input.

 Thanks in advance,

  CNM
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: slburris on April 25, 2011, 07:20:55 am
I've kinda lost track here, are people modding up to a DS1152E, the
mythical 150Mhz scope now?   If so, is that actually providing a measurable
benefit over the 100Mhz hack?

Scott
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 25, 2011, 01:49:26 pm
I've kinda lost track here, are people modding up to a DS1152E, the
mythical 150Mhz scope now?   If so, is that actually providing a measurable
benefit over the 100Mhz hack?
Scott
the thing is... there are posts/thread indicating they've successfully mod theirs to 150MHz version, but with lack of other informations such as performance improvement compared to 100MHz hack (vertical attenuation, ns/div etc), makes this 1102E hack still more popular, due to more support, involvement and substantial in the above said performance. there also report(s) on 1052e bw limit from experts here (indicating 100++MHz -3dB performance), but that wont be improved with 150MHz hack, afaik. i also would like to upgrade to 150MHz version, but having a bad experience earlier, i would not risk it anymore. or just maybe i'm as lost as you are and missing something in between.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on April 25, 2011, 03:51:33 pm
The hack which is proposed now, is able to downgrade the 00.02.05.02.00 (02.05 SP2) or earlier towards the 00.02.02.02 (02.02 SP2). In the revision 02.02 SP2, one can change the model and serial number to whatever you like. Most people rename their DS1052E towards DS1102E with the according change in the serial number (DS1ED..… has to become DS1EB…..). Use the tool of Shafri, as this prevents you from doing something wrong!
Afterwards you have to upgrade your scoop towards a good working firmware. Before, people would do the upgrade towards 02.04 SP1, as this was the best and most stable downgradable firmware. But now one can put it in 02.05 SP2 since you can again undo your changes from this firmware-revision and no bugs were reported on this firmware.
Don’t forget to calibrate your scoop after you have upgraded it towards 02.04 SP1 or higher (probably 02.05 SP2).
I hope this clarifies a lot.
If you do not want to read everything, just read page 1, everything is very well explained by Polossatik. For the latest firmware, you have to read the forum, starting from http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404, (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404,) where A Hellene pops with the crack of the code!
Greetings, Frank.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 25, 2011, 05:27:51 pm
Going back to the roots of this hack, wherein it was discovered that the only difference H/W between the 1052 and the 1102 was a bandpass filter that could be by-passed, it seems unlikely that there could be any additional performance increase with this H/W.

Changing the model and serial number in F/W does two things: first, it bypasses the filter in software and second, it makes the 2ns time base visible. Some people have taken measurements of the actual rise time performance with various leads and suggest that while the rise time performance is consistent with a 150MHz version (eg rise time <1.6ns), the scope itself is not physically capable of capturing data at a higher rate, having a 100MHz quartz clock crystal. One fellow measured the 3db error point at 75MHz on the modded scope with 300MHz leads.

So, from what I can make out, it appears their is probably a H/W difference between the DS1052E/DS1102E and the DS1152E. But I don't know if anyone has actually taken them both apart and compared them side-by-side. In fact, I don't know if anyone has ever actually gotten their hands on a real DS1152E.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 26, 2011, 05:33:16 pm
Successful update, many thanks to everyone involved in this. Special thanks to George and Drieg. It was reassuring to know that we had a recovery path through Drieg if the software upgrade went bad.

After calibration, I also needed to adjust the compensation on my probes slightly.

JohnO
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tinhead on April 27, 2011, 06:33:16 am
the scope itself is not physically capable of capturing data at a higher rate, having a 100MHz quartz clock crystal.

said who ? 100MHz quarz clock have nothing to do with scope capability !

So, from what I can make out, it appears their is probably a H/W difference between the DS1052E/DS1102E and the DS1152E. But I don't know if anyone has actually taken them both apart and compared them side-by-side. In fact, I don't know if anyone has ever actually gotten their hands on a real DS1152E.

you don't need to see DS1152E, Instek or Hantek/Tekway are using exact the same input cisrcuits, yuo can learn from them.
Actually there is, in HF compensation circuit, RC combination which need to match the scope bw freq. and there are
these 4 resistors between both op-amps in input circuit - they need to have lower values as they do in org. 1102/1052.
Evt. the input resistor need to be smaller, haven't ever measured in Rigol but i assume it.

For trigger circuit two resistors - input one and in the middle of the trigger circuit one, again no magic.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 27, 2011, 07:13:16 am
@ tinhead,-

You may well be correct -- I am no expert, I have not even taken my scope apart. I was referring to what I've read elsewhere, written by people who have taken their scope apart and looked and seem to know more than I.

A question: if one was to start changing these resistors, what effect would that have on the accuracy of the unit? I understand that calibration data unique to each scope is established at the factory and stored in the flash rom, and that if this data is changed the scope will no longer be accurate. Would the inverse not only be true -- would modifying the hardware require a modification to the calibration data?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: therian on April 27, 2011, 08:45:44 am
I have original DS1102E, lets find out if there is hardware difference, you can run test on DS1052E mode to DS1152E and I can check it on DS1102E mode to DS1152E  and compare if there is significant difference (I have stable square wave generator on 10 and 50Mhz and stable sine generator from .01 to 170 Mhz )
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tinhead on April 27, 2011, 10:49:56 am
I was referring to what I've read elsewhere, written by people who have taken their scope apart and looked and seem to know more than I.

sure, but remember, most ppl don't know what they doing (not calibrated generators, wrong cables, wrong measure techs and so on).
A 1GSs scope can do "accurate" single shot for much higher freq than 75Mhz - as long the total clock jitter x 2.5
is within one sample cycle (let's say the analog freq. response is flat).

However, if you study the Rigol design, you will see that the FPGA is too small to deliver 16k short memory, which
tells me that multiple cycles are taken to get the 16k - this can result in some additional "inaccuracy" because of
the jitter between 4 clock cycles.

I haven't traced clock pins, but afaik ADCs clocks are coming from not-dedicated pll clk out pins (increasing the jitter by 2).
So let's calculate worst case (non dedicated clock pins) for Rigol = 650ps pin jitter + 100ps PLL phase shft jitter x 2.5 = 1.875ns per cycle.
So the max. usable freq. will be 186Mhz per cycle, we should additionally add 3 x 100ps potential jitter between cycles
(4 cycles = 3 cycle diffs). This give us 2.625ns, so 1/max jitter x 0.35 = 133Mhz max. measured frequency before the
jitter becomes relevant (actually it is always important but let's talk about limits only).

As you can see, from design point of view DS1152E is above these specs, giving some errors above 133MHz
(this is now calculated for input clock with 30ps jitter). In real word there are other aspects reducing the max. single shot freq.
(or better said the accuracy caused by waveform distortion).

This is of course for single shot, if you do avg. sampling the error will be reduced by the firmware itself, so for sure the
150Mhz (DS1152E) are possible within the DSO accuracy specs.


A question: if one was to start changing these resistors, what effect would that have on the accuracy of the unit? I understand that calibration data unique to each scope is established at the factory and stored in the flash rom, and that if this data is changed the scope will no longer be accurate. Would the inverse not only be true -- would modifying the hardware require a modification to the calibration data?

The manufacturer calibration data is supposed to define the differences between signal amplitudes and skew time between ADCs.
Of course it is unique just because of the pure fact that all components have "unique" tolerance range.
This data will be then used during self-calibration to correct the measured results. In principle any modification need changes
to the manufacture calibration data, however in real world if you replace 1% resistors by 0.1% (with lower values to match freq. response for HF) the potential difference will be lower than it was in worst case before. This is of course only true if your DSO was using real 1% quality parts, if there was already bigger diff let say between one of the gain resistors and the other once then a new set
of 0.1% resistors will made your DSO unusable (just because the DSO was calibrated already with "bad" parts).
So yes, there is potential risk, it is always a good idea to mark all replaced part just in case you have to resolder them back.
That's for the op-amps resistors.

For the input resistors, they actually changing rise time response, not really that important (unless you need higher accuracy
above 150MHz). I did tested many values (and did re-calibration each time,which cost low of time) to improve my Tekway,
the diff is mariginal, not worth playing on Rigol (as the firmware is not allwoing more than 150MHz anyway).

The RC circuit in HF path is mostly responsible for compensation response, so every change there require changes to
the compensation settings. It is always a good idea to change first this part and recalibrate compensation before
you starts with other modifications.
<- ups, i see now that this part even don't exist in Rigol input circuit, so don't care about too.

The trigger reponse can be regulated with one resistor middle of the trigger circuit, however the value used
in DS1102E is good enough up to 150Mhz anyway, so don't care about.

So let's sumirize: yes, we can (oh no, not this again) as long we follow some rules. I did spend many hours modyfing my DSOs,
but only because i was looking for good flat response up to 200MHz. Without these mods the response was still less than 1%
away from original 200MHz (now talking about soft-hacked Tekway from 100 to 200Mhz), generaly spoken soft hacks are
in principle good enough for most ppl (i'm one of these ppl who are doing tweeks to add 20hp to 1000hp engine)

The major problem with all these cheap DSOs are the "money savings" things, like not enough caps (Tekway),
high ripple PSU, bad overall design (sry Rigol but i don't like the 7cm distance between ADC input and PSU - and nothing between),
high jitter clock coming from FPGA i/o pins (all manuf.), not the best PCB design (like via's in signal path - again Rigol) even
sometimes insuficient/bad manufacturer calibration (uni-t) or ugly firmware errors (all cheap DSO manuf. except Instek)

Some of these things can be fixed, other not (unless you spend a lot of money for jitter attenuators - but then you can directly
buy Agilent DSOX). Some will never change, just because cheap products will be not really supported after they sold
(firmware bugs never fixed).

For most applications such cheap DSO soft-modified to the max. of what the manufacturer calculated (so for Rigol 150Mhz)
is good enough, don't forget an DSO is not high accuarcy measurment device. If you need more, you will have to spend some
money in the one or other way (time/equipment/parts necessary to modify cheap DSO vs. better quality DSO).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flolic on April 27, 2011, 04:14:41 pm
I have original DS1102E, lets find out if there is hardware difference,

We concluded long time ago that there is no (hardware) difference between 1052E and 1102E.

Picture of mine 1102E:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg589#msg589 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg589#msg589)

Question for tinhead. Can you please mark resistors in front end responsible for BW? I know for (and already changed) 4 resistors around diff. amplifier, but what are those in the input and trigger stage? You can freely use my picture (http://img21.imageshack.us/f/rigolfrontend.jpg/ (http://img21.imageshack.us/f/rigolfrontend.jpg/) ; http://img21.imageshack.us/f/rigolds1102e.jpg/ (http://img21.imageshack.us/f/rigolds1102e.jpg/))  ;)
Title: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E
Post by: Cyclenorthman on April 28, 2011, 06:51:49 am
 Hi Folks,

First of all I would like to thanks everyone for the information and help on this project.

When I first tried this I had a hard time getting the scope to read the USB stick.I started with a 02.05.02  HW ver 58 unit.
Finally got it to read the downgrade to 02.02.01(?) but my usb interface would not work ,error message 5,but since I was at 02.02.01 I tried the serial port cable instead of the usb using hyperterminal and it worked. But I was greedy and tried to upgrade to a DS1152.Didn't work,lost model# and serial # ,display was a mess(needed a recal?) Finally was able to get it back to a DS1052E with ser # and tried upgrade to DS1102E and it worked.Recal'ed scope   and during checking it out I had a 2nS time available. I have not tried to measure a signal at that frequency, I don't need it that fast but from what I have seen I may have to change some HW to make the unit process a signal at that speed. I don't know what frequency a 2nS would serve but the unit works well so far.I know I made some mistakes along the way but I had to modify the modification information that I had.If any of you are having problems with this think about your moves and keep going forward,you may get your unit upgraded.

 Thanks,

 CNM
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 28, 2011, 07:10:04 am
...but my usb interface would not work ,error message 5...
if you are talking about shafri's tool, error 5 is "invalid procedure call or argument". its probably you dont have ni-visa "visa32.dll" driver properly installed in your system.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Cyclenorthman on April 28, 2011, 07:24:18 am
 Hi Mechatrommer,

 Could be but I used  shafri's tool the day before and it worked but made no changes to the scope at that time. I'm not an expert at this by any means but am glad I worked it out.Mayby I'll try to reload  the needed file and see if that brings shafri's back online.


 CNM
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E
Post by: torch on April 28, 2011, 07:26:38 am
during checking it out I had a 2Us time available. I have not tried to measure a signal at that frequency, I don't need it that fast but from what I have seen I may have to change some HW to make the unit process a signal at that speed.

Have no fear: your DS1052E is now the equivalent of the 100MHz DS1102E. No hardware changes required.

The only question is how much more is it capable of -- could it be made into a 150MHz DS1152E?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tinhead on April 28, 2011, 07:56:56 am

Question for tinhead. Can you please mark resistors

sure

red  - that's the input resistors, each chan and trigger, they resonsible for rise time/HF response. Hantek is using for 200Mhz models everywhere
22Ohm, Rigol seems to use quite high value in the trigger input (61.9Ohm) and much lower in chan input (13.3Ohm)

blue - that's the opamps resistors, Rigol is using afaik only one combination, Tekway/Hantek values depends on bw

R1=R2=R3=R4
 Hantek / Tekway rev 1.0.5
    100MHz - 301R

 Hantek rev 1.0.3
    200MHz - 280R
    100MHz - 301R
     60MHz  - 365R

 Tekway rev 1.0.2
    200MHz - 280R
    100MHz - 365R

 Rigol (1052 and 1102) - 365R

RP1=RP2
 Hantek / Tekway rev 1.0.5
    100MHz - 39R
 Hantek rev 1.0.3
    200MHz - 33R
    100MHz - 39R
     60MHz  - 47R

 Tekway rev 1.0.2
    200MHz - 33R
    100MHz - 47R
 
Rigol (1052 and 1102) - 33R

green - these two caps and varicap are known, there is nothing to change anymore, 160pf for caps and varicap like BBY65-02V is typical. They doing some bw reduction, but the values (in combination with Opamp Z and these resistors) are chosed to not block HF under ~250MHz so no need to change there anything. Rigol, exact like Instek/Hantek/Tekway are doing the bw magic in the firmware, the first opamp can be used to reduce HF gain (so you will not get much more that 150MHz, but you can optimize the frequency response to be more flat)

yellow - that's the RC combination responsible for trigger response/sensibility. Resistors are on Hantek/Tekway 200MHz models 82R and 100/60MHz models 100R,
however i missed to measure the cap so you can't really compare with your Rigol now.

gray - this is new for me, RC combination directly in input, that's i would say 15Ohm (?) and some pf. I would normally expect this RC "snubber" within the
compensation unit (right below the trim cap), but Rigol seems to have nothing there. Let me guess, the cap is about 56-62pF

I marked additionally the signal path for LF (blue) and HF (red) on the picture.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on April 28, 2011, 08:25:54 am
This cross-reference information is priceless, dear tinhead!
Thank you very much!


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Cyclenorthman on April 28, 2011, 08:51:55 am
Yes, thank you tinhead for the extra technical information.Anyone tried to upgrade to the DS1152E? It may be able to be done with the serial cable and hyperterminal. Serial # needs to be changed to  DS1EF**********  I believe.

    Cyclenorthman
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 28, 2011, 11:56:08 am
Serial # needs to be changed to  DS1EF**********  I believe.

No reason it can't be done with USB -- see the very first post of this thread, section 5B.

As for the serial number: IIRC, the DS1EF prefix came from a DS1152E manual someone found. However, someone else theorized that the "D" in the original 1052 serial number set the bit that enables the 50MHz filter -- hexD = bin1101. This was based on the serial numbers of the 4 known machines (DS1052D, DS1052E, DS1102D and DS1102E). The 50MHz machines both had a the third rightmost bit set to 1, the 100MHz machines had 0, like so:

Model        b/w     serial         bitwise
DS1052D     50        C             1 1 00
DS1052E     50        D             1 1 01
DS1102D    100       B              1 0 11
DS1102E     100       A             1 0 10

(The second part of the supposition was that the second rightmost bit set the 2ns option)

hex F = 1 1 11

If the earlier theories are correct, you would end up with the 2ns option, but limited to 50MHz bandwidth.

The original HW hack was to simply remove a capacitor from the 50MHz filter, leaving a scope with the higher bandwidth, but no 2ns setting and, IIRC, disabling the 20MHz filter too. If Rigol used a different filter with the DS1152E, then the F designation in the serial number fits the theory. I don't know of anyone who has actually opened up a DS1152E and looked -- I think I remember reading something about that model only being sold to educational institutions.

It was suggested by someone else to leave the serial number and just change the model number, but I don't think that worked -- IIRC, the change doesn't survive a reboot. I think this requires someone who has done the HW hack already and has the capability of doing the proper tests to confirm whether or not that will work.

I don't remember why it was decided that the 2ns option was 2nd and the 50MHz was 3rd. If the order is actually the other way around, and if the function of each is inverted, then F should work quite nicely -- second and third bits would both be ones.

The question I have is: would making the DS1052E think it is a DS1152E actually accomplish anything? If there is only one high-frequency filter, and that is already disabled, what more can be added? A 500ps resolution? From what tinhead says, it seems unlikely the amplitude will become any more accurate.





Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flolic on April 28, 2011, 03:41:44 pm
Tinhead, thank you very much for this clarification!  :)
When I catch some time I will try to change few resistors on my unit, and see is there any change in performance.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ed06 on April 28, 2011, 10:19:48 pm
ed06, have you taken a look at page 1 of this thread?
Yes. I have a version of SP2
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Slasher006 on April 28, 2011, 11:58:30 pm
I have successfully patched my device. :-D version 2.05 SP2 -> 2.02.02 -> 2.05 SP2. Thanks to all, and special thanks to A Hellene, great work you save me 200€. :-)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 29, 2011, 01:52:32 am
I am trying to answer my own question:

would making the DS1052E think it is a DS1152E actually accomplish anything? If there is only one high-frequency filter, and that is already disabled, what more can be added? A 500ps resolution? From what tinhead says, it seems unlikely the amplitude will become any more accurate.

Googling "DS1152E" results in a stack of Chinese language websites, but nothing in English other than the speculations on discussion boards. Google translates the specs to:

Quote
DS1000E Series is a high-performance indicators, the economy of the digital oscilloscope, is widely used in education and training, production line testing and enterprises in various fields of scientific research DS1152E-EDU  digital oscilloscope provide 2 analog channels, 150MHz Bandwidth, 1 GSa / s real-time sampling rate and 25GSa / s equivalent sample rate; 16-channel logic analysis.

1. Provide 2 analog channels, the maximum bandwidth of 100MHz, 1 GSa / s real-time sampling rate and 25GSa / s equivalent sampling rate;
2. 5.7-inch QVGA (320 × 240), 64k color TFT color LCD display
3.16-channel logic analyzer features, support mixed-beam test and measurement code and data storage
4. Edge, pulse width, slope, video, alternate triggering
5. Rich interface configuration: Standard USB Host, USB Device, RS-232, P / F Out, optional USB-GPIB

The same specs appear on multiple websites. Ok, let's assume that the "maximum bandwidth of 100MHz" is a typo that has simply been copied from one website to another. However, the "16-channel logic analyzer" would seem to preclude this as an upgrade option for us -- IIRC, one fellow who tried to change his model to a 1102D (with the LA) ran into a mess of trouble. I can't see any input for this on the front panel images though. Can anybody clear this up for sure?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Chet T16 on April 29, 2011, 02:44:13 am
"Updata Successed"  ;D

My Rigol arrived from dealextreme today with 02.05 SP2 and its now running 02.04 SP1 as a DS1102E.

Any word on whether 02.05 SP2 is an improvement on 02.04 SP1 or is it still unknown?

Thanks to everyone for all the info in this thread!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 29, 2011, 07:11:50 am
ed06, have you taken a look at page 1 of this thread?
Yes. I have a version of SP2

So using page 1 and the massive input from A Hellene on page 43 will you be able to complete an update to your scope?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on April 29, 2011, 07:13:59 am
Although over my head I am really enjoying the discussion triggered by @tinhead & @torch.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: ed06 on April 29, 2011, 09:30:59 pm
ed06, have you taken a look at page 1 of this thread?
Yes. I have a version of SP2

So using page 1 and the massive input from A Hellene on page 43 will you be able to complete an update to your scope?
Thank you. Later try. It is still scary))
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 29, 2011, 11:06:58 pm
Preamble:

I have been riding on the coattails of others here because I don't have the knowledge or skill to come up with these hacks. But I want to give back and the one thing I can do is be a guinea pig and test something. As far as I can tell, while one or two have changed the model to the 1152, no one has actually tried it with the serial number change too.

Short story:
I just changed mine to a DS1152E (the 150MHz version), with serial number F. It works, and I still have the 2ns/div setting. It did not brick the scope, everything seems to OK, I'm running the self-calibration right now.

Long story:

I don't think it will make any difference. I've spent the last day or two pouring over the old posts and threads on this topic. From what I can see others have found, the 1102 hack unlocks the b/w filter on the inputs and once unlocked, nothing else can speed things up any further. The hardware has a roll-off around 140MHz to 160MHz (depending on who did the testing, so probably depending on the manufacturing tolerances of any individual scope). So any model with unlocked inputs can be used to measure up to 150MHz frequencies, with reasonable representation of amplitude,

HOWEVER

That only applies in real time when using a single channel only with the acquisition set for short memory, so that the Sa Rate (appears when you press the Horizontal Menu) is set to 1 GSa. Enabling either halves the sample rate. Enabling both quarters the sample rate. So even though the inputs can pass the signal with reasonable accuracy at 150MHz, the scope cannot capture and display them accurately because it cannot take enough samples per cycle to accurately display the waveform above ~100MHz (at 500KSa) or ~50MHz (at 250KSa).

This can be overcome somewhat when measuring a repetitive waveform by averaging over at least 4 cycles, (which will not catch glitches) or displaying dots instead of vectors and enabling persistence (which might catch glitches).

Nothing in this latest model number change enables a higher sample rate. The spec sheets (as translated by Google) show the same sample rates as the others and I can now confirm that the scope itself reports the same sample rates too.

So, go ahead and hack the scope to think it's a DS1152E if you really want to. You will then be able to lay claim to having a 150MHz scope -- on paper. But remember that every time you flash your FW, there is a risk of bricking the scope, even though you have all the right stuff and follow the procedure to the letter -- random cosmic rays or radio interference or who knows what can sometimes happen (someone already bricked their 2.05.02 scope using the latest hacked firmware. Fortunately Dimitry came to his rescue!). Given all of the above, I really don't think you will gain anything by this further modification.

Again, I am no expert. I am merely summarizing all that I have read and may have mis-interpreted something! If I am wrong on any point, please feel free to jump in and correct me. I wish I had access to the equipment to properly test these things, but I don't.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 30, 2011, 12:10:10 am
I may have found a problem, or a bug, or something. The digital filter now has a lower limit of 250MHz and an upper limit of 12.38GHz. That can't be right!

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on April 30, 2011, 12:17:21 am
Guys, the serial number means nothing, i made this clear when i first posted the hack to 1152 its all on the model number.

BUT, and a BIG BUT! when changing the model number you must the change the serial number or the model number change will not be stored in the scope when you cycle the power. Changing the serial number is just a trigger for the scope to store both the model and serial permanently. The Serial number means nothing to the firmware. my scope is hacked to 1152 and it still has the original serial number that came with the scope.

@torch the digital filter limits, change depending on the sample rate you have chosen.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 30, 2011, 01:05:10 am
Guys, the serial number means nothing, i made this clear when i first posted the hack to 1152 its all on the model number.

BUT, and a BIG BUT! when changing the model number you must the change the serial number or the model number change will not be stored in the scope when you cycle the power. Changing the serial number is just a trigger for the scope to store both the model and serial permanently. The Serial number means nothing to the firmware.

I remember the post. I wasn't sure if you actually tried changing the 'B' to an 'F' or not -- it didn't sound like you had.

Quote
my scope is hacked to 1152 and it still has the original serial number that came with the scope.

You are using the original "D" in the serial number? Oh that I completely missed! Polossatik are you reading this??? It may mean a change to the directions on page 1!

Quote
@torch the digital filter limits, change depending on the sample rate you have chosen.
Yes, I realize that -- and I should note that was on the 2ns setting. But why would I want a bandpass filter that starts at 250MHz on a scope that can't accurately see anything above 150MHz? Maybe I miss the point -- I'm still learning here.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on April 30, 2011, 02:07:05 am
Thanks torch for summarizing months, if not years of posts.  I agree fully.  It should help others get up to speed who are new to the Rigol 1052e.

I forget specifically the details of sampling rate, but its like 1Gs/s for channel one at 16 k record length, 500 Ms/s if 1Meg record length is selected.  I'm unsure ??? if using channel 2 alone is only 500Ms/s at 16k or 1M memory length, but definitely if you use channels 1&2 together its 500Ms/s a 16k memory length, and 250 Ms/s if using channel 1&2 and selecting 1M memory length ... but it limits each channel to 512K per channel.


...
HOWEVER

That only applies in real time when using a single channel only with the acquisition set for short memory, so that the Sa Rate (appears when you press the Horizontal Menu) is set to 1 GSa. Enabling either halves the sample rate. Enabling both quarters the sample rate. So even though the inputs can pass the signal with reasonable accuracy at 150MHz, the scope cannot capture and display them accurately because it cannot take enough samples per cycle to accurately display the waveform above ~100MHz (at 500KSa) or ~50MHz (at 250KSa).

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 30, 2011, 06:59:28 am
So using page 1 and the massive input from A Hellene on page 43 will you be able to complete an update to your scope?

I think page 1 is up to date now. However, if you are confused about all the various tools you need to d/l from various sources, I compiled them all into this one zip file: http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip (http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip). I included both 2.04SP1 and, in case you feel you want the latest, 2.05SP2. There's a text file with the MD5 hashes. The only thing missing from that file is the software that came on your Rigol CD.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: MickM on April 30, 2011, 10:52:30 am
Hello Torch;
  your zip file gives a "not found" and a 404.

Mick M.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on April 30, 2011, 11:05:04 am
Try it now -- the period at the end of the sentence was included into the link by the forum software. I think it's fixed now.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on April 30, 2011, 11:09:18 am
mind the "dot", dont include the "dot". the easiest way to avoid error is use this template ["url=your address here"]your caption here["/url"] , and dont include the double quotes, change the red text appropriately. or if your lazy enough (just like me somtime), hit space before the dot. i rest my case ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: clonecrp on May 02, 2011, 08:29:32 am
Hi All!

An exciting thread ....

I have HardVersion = 03. Currently upgraded to 00.02.04 SP1. Any advantage or dis-advantage go to 00.02.05.01.00 ( 02.05 SP1 ) upgrade ?

Please advise...

Thanks!
Doug
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 02, 2011, 09:19:30 am
i advice you to stick to the older version as much as possible unless you got issue. i still got 2.02 in my scope, alot older than anything discussed here recently and i got no issue at all. but it might not work with newer HW board version. people complaint about flickering screen with the latest 2.05 FW. but maybe someone else can give you better picture on this.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on May 02, 2011, 09:35:07 am
Hi, Doug,

In addition to Mechatrommer's advice (see this message (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2788.msg43113#msg43113)) I recommend you to stay with v2.04 SP1; I downgraded from 2.05 SP2, myself. Additionally, all firmware revisions after v2.04 SP1 and before 2.05 SP2 have been reported to be buggy, locking up the scopes under certain circumstances until reboot.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: clonecrp on May 02, 2011, 02:07:05 pm
Thanks Guys !

Will keep @ 00.02.04 SP1 then ... Upgrade process on my 2nd scope was almost as slick (actually better) as the first one based on Dave's original illustration ... did it w/RS232 then ... USB .... SLICK  8) !

So what's next for my Hantek 100Mhz ... any ideas?


Thanks!
Doug
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 02, 2011, 07:50:31 pm
So what's next for my Hantek 100Mhz ... any ideas?
-----> Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free  (Read 38892 times) (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.0)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 03, 2011, 11:10:41 am
I put together the high-speed pulse generator mentioned earlier (http://www.i9t.net/fast-pulse/fast-pulse.html (http://www.i9t.net/fast-pulse/fast-pulse.html)). Actually, I had some problems getting it to run right until I read the actual app note that he took that circuit from (http://www.mit.edu/~6.331/an47fa.pdf (http://www.mit.edu/~6.331/an47fa.pdf)).

Anyway, it's still on a breadboard, so not quite as fast as it should be if the app note is followed, but it seems to be putting out a distinct pulse now anyway. Here's a screen shot of the pulse:
(http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/fast_pulse.bmp)

Now, I don't know if this actually means anything, but earlier when I was trying to get the pulse to work, I saved this one too:
(http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/ripple.bmp)

BTW: the amplitude plummets at 250MB/s sample rate (ie: 2 channels and long memory). Not so bad with one or the other (either one drops it down to 500MB/s), but still noticeable.
(http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/250mbps.bmp)
EDIT: I just realized I cut the start of the pulse off on that shot, so the rise time isn't shown, however it was about 6ns (with either long memory or 2 channels, it was about 3ns)

Oh, and finally, a shot of the boot screen:
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: quadphile on May 03, 2011, 02:21:04 pm
Hi, I send my thanks to all those involved so far!

In response to this bandwidth discussion I was wondering why a sinewave was not pursued first instead of a pulse generator.  The thought being to run the scope in the undersampling mode to get the "25Gs/s Equivalent Sample Rate", pushing the digital limitations far enough out to be no longer of concern (I'd hope!).  And if jitter is an issue in this mode then I guess you could do the same test but with normal sampling.

Then, sweep it with an RF source and spectrum analyzer for verification of input level consistency.  The sweep provides the -3dB point(s), and hence the bandwidth.  An underlying thought I had was that maybe these 50MHz scopes had poor flatness (level accuracy) from 50MHz to 100Mhz+.

I'm told I only know enough to be dangerous,  ;)  Thanks again, and hopefully I'm being helpful!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: clonecrp on May 03, 2011, 03:43:01 pm
Ok Then  :) !  On to fixing the power supply etc (nice screen on this thing  ;D ) ... =  Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free  ;D

Thanks !
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Bored@Work on May 03, 2011, 03:51:41 pm
In response to this bandwidth discussion I was wondering why a sinewave was not pursued first instead of a pulse generator.

The pulse generator with 350 ps rise time (that is 350 * 10-12 s) can be build by amateurs on a weekend for very little money (maybe 10 USD). It works, and is fun to do.

It works for measuring the bandwidth, because there is a rule of thumb formula, linking displayed risetime with oscilloscope bandwidth, as long as the generator's risetime is much better than the oscilloscope's one. With one simple mesurement one can see the oscilloscope's bandwidth.

Building or buying a 100 MHz or 200 MHz sine wave generator is a completely different game.

Quote
Then, ...  with an ... spectrum analyzer
More money down the drain for what an amateur can do with 10 USD and one look at the oscilloscope's display.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tazman171 on May 03, 2011, 04:35:52 pm
Hi there.  New to the forums here but have been reading.  I just received my RIGOL 1052E and it is now a 1102E!  I bought it from Saelig for $399 including shipping and tax plus it cam with a carrying case.

Awesome info in here for doing this.

I did the upgrade via the USB method using shafri's rigupgr.exe program.  Took 15 minutes tops, thank you for all of the info here!  ;)  Couple of pics showing the software and hardware info before and after:

Before:

(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab40/tazman171/Rigol%201052E/RigolHack1.jpg)

After:

(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab40/tazman171/Rigol%201052E/RigolHack2-1.jpg)

Once again, great info and guides, thank you.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: clonecrp on May 03, 2011, 05:19:11 pm
BoredAtWork

I looked @ the pulse generator circuit in the application note quite some tiime ago ... just never got around to it  (printed it out - thick note ! ) .... but I think you've changed my mind  ;D - Looks like next weekend  ;) .

A new Rigol convert ! Slick USB upgrade huh tazman171 ?

Doug

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 04, 2011, 02:05:28 am
Sorry, I said App Notes, but it was actually the datasheet (http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/1073fa.pdf (http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/1073fa.pdf)) that helped me out. The IceNINE circuit is a copy of the App Notes circuit. The datasheet circuit is functionally similar, but with different values for the voltage supply caps. The first specify 0.47uF caps, the datasheet actually specifies 0.1uF caps. It made a real difference changing the one that is connected to the inductor to the lower value cap (the other two didn't seem to make as much difference). With the wrong caps, the voltage into the transistor was far too low -- something like 20v, IIRC. With the correct value caps, the voltage rises nicely above 90v, which is critical to get the sought-after pulse. At least, this is what happened in my case. YMMV.

One thing the app notes pointed out was the importance of keeping the leads as short as possible. I had much less ringing when I clipped the leads off so they were just long enough to reach the holes in the breadboard. Now that I have the circuit working, I'll try soldering everything direct to the BNC connector, as the app notes suggest. 

If I understand the principle correctly and assuming I am actually generating a pulse with a 350ps rise time, then the actual bandwidth of my particular scope with the supplied probes should be (0.34/2.12)*1,000 = ~160MHz. Not bad for a 50MHz price!

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tekfan on May 04, 2011, 02:39:57 am
Just for the info

The pulse generator actually produces pulses considerably less than 350ps. I've measured it with a 1GHz scope and I get around 310ps. Really quite amazing.

This has to be one of the simplest and highest performance builds in a long time.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: clonecrp on May 04, 2011, 03:11:25 am
torch & tekfan

Differences understood .. Thanks guys for the tip(s)  8) ... now it looks like I need to find some samples  ;D ... Chip, Diode & Transistor ...

On a misson now .... & will let you know of success/failure ) ... no 1GHz scope here  :'(
Thanks!
Doug
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: clonecrp on May 04, 2011, 03:27:53 am
Back Again ! ... What chip version yeilds best success  ??? ?

ie.: 

LT1073CN8
LT1073CN8-5
LT1073CN8-12 
LT1073CS8
LT1073CN8-5
LT1073CN8-12  etc...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 04, 2011, 03:46:05 am
Don't use the -12 or -5 versions! They are pre-configured with internal resistors that set the output voltage to 12v and 5v, respectively, so you cannot get the required 90v (Don't Ask Me How I Know This.tm) (BTW: anyone have a project that requires 12v from a 1.5v battery? I have an LT1073CN8-12 I can let go real cheap...  :'( )

The N8 package is an 8-pin DIP. The S8 package is an 8-lead narrow surface mount. I prefer the DIP.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: clonecrp on May 04, 2011, 04:21:13 am
Are you sure on part selection? Looks like the 90Volts is derrived by stacking off pin SW1 =>  http://www.i9t.net/fast-pulse/fast-pulse.html (http://www.i9t.net/fast-pulse/fast-pulse.html)

So you are saying the winner should be => LT1073CN8  ;D  Kerrect?

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jahonen on May 04, 2011, 05:22:34 am
Pulse is too short for narrow bandwidth scope. Suitable piece of coax can be used to lengthen the output pulse without affecting the pulse amplitude or rise time, see my measurements here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=588.msg43093#msg43093).

Regards,
Janne
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Bored@Work on May 04, 2011, 05:49:44 am
Back Again ! ... What chip version yeilds best success  ??? ?

ie.: 

LT1073CN8
LT1073CN8-5
LT1073CN8-12 
LT1073CS8
LT1073CN8-5
LT1073CN8-12  etc...

As I have confessed previously, I didn't even use an LT part in my version, because I didn't have one at hand. Many boost converter ICs and schematics should work, as long as you can get the final output to 90V, without killing the IC. And as long as you can get the switcher working with the low load (see the 1 M? resistor).

Linear's original version uses 45V with a voltage doubler, because the LT1073 can't directly produce 90V. You could, for example, use a 30V IC with a voltage tripler (one diode stage more). LT also published other versions where they used an LT IC which could directly generate 90 V (some converter for CFL). There is nothing that really requires the LT1073. It is of course nice it can work from a single 1.5V battery, and you might need more batteries when using other ICs.

Just make sure you don't kill yourself. 90 V is already officially in the "is dangerous" zone. If you mess up your SMPS and accidentally create an even higher output voltage ...

(Dave: Can we get a "Zapped", "Grilled", "Fried" or "Blown up" emoticon?)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tekfan on May 04, 2011, 06:06:14 am
Believe me the single AA battery operation is totally worth it. It uses so little current that you won't have to replace the battery in a long time.

The capacitors store a very small amount of charge so there's nothing to worry if you accidentaly touch the caps. You might feel a small spike but nothing serious. I've touched it several times and I just say oops every time.

I used 0.47uF caps rated at 63 volts. I wonder how long they will last. Well atleast they're good quality caps.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 04, 2011, 06:12:31 am
So you are saying the winner should be => LT1073CN8  ;D  Kerrect?

That is what I used, yes.

I realize that the 90v is not directly output from the chip itself, but the circuit in total as provided cannot achieve the 90v with the -12 version and I don't know enough (yet?) to redesign the circuit.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on May 04, 2011, 07:24:33 am
In response to this bandwidth discussion I was wondering why a sinewave was not pursued first instead of a pulse generator.

The pulse generator with 350 ps rise time (that is 350 * 10-12 s) can be build by amateurs on a weekend for very little money (maybe 10 USD). It works, and is fun to do.

It works for measuring the bandwidth, because there is a rule of thumb formula, linking displayed risetime with oscilloscope bandwidth, as long as the generator's risetime is much better than the oscilloscope's one. With one simple mesurement one can see the oscilloscope's bandwidth.
Yep, for every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong. But I'm sure it's fun to see those high bandwidth numbers after spending a few hours (or less) building the AN-47 pulser. A correct solution (which involves a charge line, see Janne's post for example) isn't that much more complex, though.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 04, 2011, 08:02:17 am
Please expand on what is "wrong" and how to correct it.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flyingfrancisco on May 04, 2011, 09:02:12 am
Hello everyone
I just statred +to nod my DS1052eE from version 02.05. SP2 and I have hit a wall. I have installed the 02.02. SP2 but can't connect to the scope with UltraScope. When I try to connect it asks me to choose from  ASRL1-INSTR or ASRL10-INSTR but either one doesn't work. I get the error "Can't Read from Device" and when I click ok I get "Device not found" I have uninstalled ULtrascope that came with cd and uninstalled "Visa462runtime.exe" reinstalled them and get the same errors. I did not get a request to install drivers. What am I doing wrong.
Thx in advance to everyone

flyingfrancisco
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on May 04, 2011, 09:07:19 am
Wrong: if the pulse duration is in the same order of magnitude (or faster) as the scope's rise time, the falling edge appears at the input when the scope's output signal is still rising. This interferes with the rising edge, and distorts the pulse. This will result in a shortened pulse, if the rise time is calculated from 10% to 90% of the acquired signal.

I whipped up a quick LTspice simulation to show what I mean. The whole scope system (including any cables) is represented as a simple single pole RC filter. The circuit on the left has a 10n pulse duration, the second on the right 1n, everything else is the same. Edge rates are in the same ball park as the AN-47 pulser (300ps rise time, more than an order of magnitude faster than the rise time of the RC circuit), but shape is not the same. My estimate for 10-90 rise time of the left circuit is 4.3ns, and for the circuit on the right is 1.1ns. Did the RC filter suddenly get that much more bandwidth? Is 320MHz bandwidth realistic for a 100ohm/20pF low-pass filter? The calculated bandwidth according to the 10ns pulse is 81MHz, close to the 80MHz calculated for the RC filter.

Solution: increase the pulse duration so it's much longer than the rise time. This ensures that the rising edge is over before the falling edge appears at the input. A charge line can be used to increase this pulse duration, see Janne's post:
Pulse is too short for narrow bandwidth scope. Suitable piece of coax can be used to lengthen the output pulse without affecting the pulse amplitude or rise time, see my measurements here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=588.msg43093#msg43093).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 04, 2011, 09:47:47 am
Hello everyone
I just statred +to nod my DS1052eE from version 02.05. SP2 and I have hit a wall. I have installed the 02.02. SP2 but can't connect to the scope with UltraScope. When I try to connect it asks me to choose from  ASRL1-INSTR or ASRL10-INSTR but either one doesn't work. I get the error "Can't Read from Device" and when I click ok I get "Device not found" I have uninstalled ULtrascope that came with cd and uninstalled "Visa462runtime.exe" reinstalled them and get the same errors. I did not get a request to install drivers.
What operating system are you running?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flyingfrancisco on May 04, 2011, 10:11:55 am
Hi
I am running windows XP
flyingfrancisco
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 04, 2011, 10:34:06 am
Solution: increase the pulse duration so it's much longer than the rise time. This ensures that the rising edge is over before the falling edge appears at the input. A charge line can be used to increase this pulse duration, see

Unfortunately, he doesn't actually give his measurements in that post that I can see, which may be important since I'm not sure he's using the same stuff. The app note specifies 40" of 50 ohm "hard line or at least teflon-based &  rated for HF transmission", but he says he used RG-174/u, which is polyethylene based. (I think "hard line" refers to the thick direct-bury co-ax with the solid shield?) RG-178/u is teflon based though -- maybe it was a typo? Or maybe it's not actually that important?

What is actually more important: will this technique work with the AN47 circuit or does it require the AN94 version? There are some differences I assume the most important is the change in the cap value to 10pf and the addition of the damping resistor? The array of 200 ohm resistors in parallel add up to equal the 50 ohm termination of the AN47, why would he splay them out like that? Spreading the current distribution to minimize RF or something?  

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm an old dog trying to learn some new tricks. You have to speak s-l-o-w-l-y  :D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 04, 2011, 11:59:02 am
Hi
I am running windows XP
flyingfrancisco
32 bit? 64 bit? SP1, SP2, SP3?

XP had some USB driver problems over the years. If you have 32 bit and followed the service pack upgrades in sequence, then those should be dealt with, but I seem to recall an issue if you skipped SP2 and went straight from SP1 to SP3. Not sure if it would affect this or not. 64 bit was pretty hopeless for drivers. Another potential issue is the physical location  of the USB port -- some devices don't like hubs and on some older motherboards there is actually only one port and the other connectors are downstream of a hub. Sometimes switching outlets helps -- look for one that is actually on the rear of the motherboard, rather than one mounted to the case and connected to the motherboard by a cable.

Do you have access to another computer you could try this on?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flyingfrancisco on May 04, 2011, 12:34:03 pm
Hi Torch
Do you think that it might be related to the fact that my Ultrascope software was fairly recentversion 2.08 I believe and that by downgrading my version fron 02.05 SP2 to 02.02.SP2 the Ultrascope software doesn't work with this version?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 04, 2011, 12:47:17 pm
Anything is possible! Mine is 00.01.07, which is available http://rapidshare.com/files/391131901/Ultrascope_for_DS1000E_Series.exe (http://rapidshare.com/files/391131901/Ultrascope_for_DS1000E_Series.exe) (as per the first post of this thread) You could try that and see if it makes a difference. Maybe Rigol modded the dll files to avoid the downgraded scopes?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Chet T16 on May 04, 2011, 04:33:57 pm
Hi Torch
Do you think that it might be related to the fact that my Ultrascope software was fairly recentversion 2.08 I believe and that by downgrading my version fron 02.05 SP2 to 02.02.SP2 the Ultrascope software doesn't work with this version?

Check out my reply in the other rigol thread
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 04, 2011, 06:13:57 pm
I didn't realize this was asked in two different threads, but Chet T16's post (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg44174#msg44174) looks like a very good answer.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Chet T16 on May 04, 2011, 06:19:44 pm
I didn't realize this was asked in two different threads, but Chet T16's post (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg44174#msg44174) looks like a very good answer.

Three! It has a seperate post of it own too :D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 04, 2011, 06:34:11 pm
Gee, so there is.

@ flyingfrancisco: At the bottom of the page is a "notify" link. You can use it to have the forum e-mail you a notice when there is a reply to that topic. That way you don't miss any answers to your question and don't need to ask the question in multiple places.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 04, 2011, 08:51:49 pm
i prefer "unread post" at the top. i dont just get notified the thread i posted, but any recent activity in any new/old threads. so you wont miss anything of interest (or uninterest too :P).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: RegAV on May 04, 2011, 11:14:02 pm
Ok Guys be patient with me, but this dummys guide is a tad long winded and lost me at the point where we are asked to download * download rigupgr.zip from shafri's post here.

I cannot find any file only more & more text!

Anybody found a simpler way, or know where all the darned files are?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Chet T16 on May 04, 2011, 11:33:19 pm
There couldn't possibly be a simpler way!

Direct link to attachment (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=3900)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 05, 2011, 12:51:26 am
Anybody found a simpler way, or know where all the darned files are?
page #1, post #1, by polossatik.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: bhunting on May 05, 2011, 02:51:59 am
I'm happy to say 2 more version 02.05-SP2 DS1052's patched without a hitch. 

I'm running Windows 7 x64 and everything worked fine. 

I grabbed the bundle put together by torch on page 47 http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip (http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip) (thanks torch for sweeping all of the pieces into one easy to use bundle).  I used only the files in the bundle and of course the instructions on page 1.  It was about a 20 minute process for the first scope since I was checking everything twice and twice again.  The second scope was done in less than 10 minutes.

Thanks again to all of you for figuring this out and putting together the tools.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: RegAV on May 05, 2011, 03:46:51 am
There couldn't possibly be a simpler way!

Direct link to attachment (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=3900)

Thanks Chet for the link, guess I'll have to read all 49 prev pages first, Ultrascope does not run either with missing dll error, another google required.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 05, 2011, 05:02:17 am
Thanks Chet for the link, guess I'll have to read all 49 prev pages first, Ultrascope does not run either with missing dll error, another google required.

You don't need to read the whole story. You need to read page 1, post 1. All the critical information has been continuously updated in that post through the dedicated efforts of Polossatik.

To make things easier, I put all the files together in one package that you can download from
DS1052 Upgrade tools zip file
 (http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip)
EXCEPT Ultrascope (which comes from Rigol)

However, since it is *possible* that the new version of Ultrascope is preventing the scope from connecting when downgraded, here is a version that is known to work with the older firmware:
Ultrascope 1.07 installation files (http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/Ultrascope_for_DS1000E_Series.exe)

(there are links to all these on the front page, but some of them are at annoying hosting sites that make you wait unless you pay a premium.)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: RegAV on May 05, 2011, 08:35:18 am
Thanks Chet for the link, guess I'll have to read all 49 prev pages first, Ultrascope does not run either with missing dll error, another google required.

You don't need to read the whole story. You need to read page 1, post 1. All the critical information has been continuously updated in that post through the dedicated efforts of Polossatik.

To make things easier, I put all the files together in one package that you can download from
DS1052 Upgrade tools zip file
 (http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip)
EXCEPT Ultrascope (which comes from Rigol)

Great stuff torch, have got everything, even Ultrascope now functions ok, cheers mate!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 05, 2011, 09:57:02 am
Great stuff torch, have got everything, even Ultrascope now functions ok, cheers mate!

So Ultrascope v 00.01.7  worked, but v 00.01.08 did not?

That is important information for the next guy.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: bhunting on May 05, 2011, 01:19:51 pm
I'm running 00.01.07 under Windows 7 x64 and it seems to work fine
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 05, 2011, 01:22:56 pm
Solution: increase the pulse duration so it's much longer than the rise time. This ensures that the rising edge is over before the falling edge appears at the input. A charge line can be used to increase this pulse duration

Ok, I added 40" of RG-174/U (couldn't get any RG-178/U), the trim pot and changed the cap to 10pF. I adjusted the trim pot to give as flat a signal across the top as I could. It's certainly wider than the rise time. This is the result (0.34/1.8*1000=188MHz, right?):
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on May 05, 2011, 09:19:26 pm
So rise time actually got faster with a wider pulse, interesting. Don't see an obvious explanation for that, unless there is something weird going on with the pulse shape. This is hard to verify without a faster scope, though.

I am a bit suspicious of the automated rise time measurement. My estimate of 10-to-90 rise time from your screenshot would be around 2.5ns. Does this scope always underestimate rise times? Does it show 20-to-80 rise times? Or is my estimate wrong? Did you try dot display to see if it's undersampled and if interpolation is working properly?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tnt on May 05, 2011, 09:44:39 pm
Yes, looks more like 2.4 - 2.5 ns to me too (start slightly before the 2 ns division and ends 1.2 division after)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on May 05, 2011, 09:51:04 pm
Unfortunately, he doesn't actually give his measurements in that post that I can see, which may be important since I'm not sure he's using the same stuff.
You'd have to ask him directly.

The app note specifies 40" of 50 ohm "hard line or at least teflon-based &  rated for HF transmission", but he says he used RG-174/u, which is polyethylene based. (I think "hard line" refers to the thick direct-bury co-ax with the solid shield?) RG-178/u is teflon based though -- maybe it was a typo? Or maybe it's not actually that important?
If it attenuates high frequencies, it might increase the rise time and deteriorate pulse shape. I assume hard line refers to something like semi-rigid coax, which has superior performance compared to normal coax with a braided shield. Janne's result with RG-174 seemed quite satisfactory, though.

What is actually more important: will this technique work with the AN47 circuit or does it require the AN94 version? There are some differences I assume the most important is the change in the cap value to 10pf and the addition of the damping resistor? The array of 200 ohm resistors in parallel add up to equal the 50 ohm termination of the AN47, why would he splay them out like that? Spreading the current distribution to minimize RF or something?  
I think Janne has used it with (a modified version of) the AN47 circuit, Jim Williams did it with the AN94 version (which also has some other improvements). Paralleled resistors are probably to reduce parasitic inductance, splaying them out will reduce parasitic capacitance, both will screw up the impedance at high frequencies. Hence the short lead length and use of SMD components.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 05, 2011, 11:51:58 pm
Oh this is turning into an interesting learning experience  ??? Here's some experiments and what I think they mean:

First, I switched out the probes. Instead of the supplied Rigol 150MHz probe, I used a 250MHz probe (Coline M12W). I carefully adjusted both matching pots according to the directions. I realize that this is not fair, given that the purpose of this was to test the system supplied by Rigol as a whole, but thought it might make a difference. I also selected "Dots" and turned on persistence. Here is the result:
(http://www.picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/dots250.bmp)

You can see the calculated rise time is just about the same as before. Notice that the line is a touch thick in places -- my circuit is still on the breadboard which I *think* is the cause of the jitter.

But WAIT! If we change the time base to 5ns, something interesting happens:
(http://www.picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/dots250b.bmp)

WTF!!!

While in both cases, the leading edge of the pulse is clearly shown, in the 5ns shot, the *trailing* edge has dropped further back to 0. Using the manual cursors, It appears that the Rigol is using the displayed trailing edge when determining the minimum voltage for the rise-time calculation, NOT the displayed leading edge. I don't think this is the right way to do it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but rise time should be looking at the pre-trigger minimum, not the post-trigger minimum, should it not?

With that thought in mind, I used the manual cursors to carefully plot the 10% and 90% points, flipping back and forth between X and Y displays to ensure the points coincided:
(http://www.picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/dots250c.bmp)

And now, back to the original Rigol 150MHz probe for a manual measurement:
(http://www.picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/dots150.bmp)

So, allowing for manual error and the fudge factor caused by the jitter in my circuit, I think it's fair to say the rise time is 2.5ns +/- .06ns? Which suggests a Gaussian bandwidth of 3.4\2.5*1000 = 136MHz?

EDIT: Forgot two things: first, thanks to tnt and alm for teaching me not to trust the automatic measurements. And second, this seems to confirm that telling the scope it's now a 150MHz DS1152E-EDU model means bumpkiss. Once the input filter is defeated with the 100MHz mod, that's all you get. Anything more requires a hardware mod, if it's possible at all.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on May 06, 2011, 12:25:46 am
First, I switched out the probes. Instead of the supplied Rigol 150MHz probe, I used a 250MHz probe (Coline M12W). I carefully adjusted both matching pots according to the directions. I realize that this is not fair, given that the purpose of this was to test the system supplied by Rigol as a whole, but thought it might make a difference.
I think testing just the scope is fair. In the end, the usable bandwidth will be determined by both the probe and the scope, but for the purpose of evaluating the bandwidth of the scope, I would ignore the probe. Ideally I would directly connect the pulser to the input with a feed-through terminator in between, I think this is how Jim Williams did it. Testing probes is also useful, but basically a separate issue.

I also selected "Dots" and turned on persistence. Here is the result:
So no issue with interpolation or sampling. My initial thought was that the automated measurement maybe used the uninterpolated signal, and someone has shown that the sin x/x interpolation is not perfect.

You can see the calculated rise time is just about the same as before. Notice that the line is a touch thick in places -- my circuit is still on the breadboard which I *think* is the cause of the jitter.
I hope that's not a solderless breadboard, I would build a circuit like this on a piece of copperclad if I didn't have a proper PCB. Any parasitics may severely impact the performance. Something like a solderless breadboard would have parasitics one or two orders of magnitude worse than the parallel termination resistors Jim Williams is worrying about.

While in both cases, the leading edge of the pulse is clearly shown, in the 5ns shot, the *trailing* edge has dropped further back to 0. Using the manual cursors, It appears that the Rigol is using the displayed trailing edge when determining the minimum voltage for the rise-time calculation, NOT the displayed leading edge. I don't think this is the right way to do it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but rise time should be looking at the pre-trigger minimum, not the post-trigger minimum, should it not?
There's definitely something strange about the measurement. Does moving the trigger point to the right at 2ns/div so the low signal is longer help at all? Attached is a section from a Tek DSO manual about how automated measurements determines the min and max. Rigol may be using something similar, I haven't checked their documentation.

So, allowing for manual error and the fudge factor caused by the jitter in my circuit, I think it's fair to say the rise time is 2.5ns +/- .06ns? Which suggests a Gaussian bandwidth of 3.4\2.5*1000 = 136MHz?
The usual conversion factor is actually 0.35, not 0.34,, but I don't think it makes much sense to calculate this with many digits of precision, since the scope's response is unlikely to be perfectly Gaussian anyway. I would say that according to these results, the bandwidth is probably around 140MHz at these settings.

Any idea how this compares to your earlier measurements with the semi-Dirac pulse? Do you have a saved screenshot that you can use to estimate the rise time from? I'm wondering how much difference the very short pulse makes in this system.

EDIT: Forgot two things: first, thanks to tnt and alm for teaching me not to trust the automatic measurements. And second, this seems to confirm that telling the scope it's now a 150MHz DS1152E-EDU model means bumpkiss. Once the input filter is defeated with the 100MHz mod, that's all you get. Anything more requires a hardware mod, if it's possible at all.
Agreed, it doesn't appear to have 150MHz bandwidth.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 06, 2011, 01:37:42 am
but for the purpose of evaluating the bandwidth of the scope, I would ignore the probe. Ideally I would directly connect the pulser to the input with a feed-through terminator in between, I think this is how Jim Williams did it. Testing probes is also useful, but basically a separate issue.
Yes, that is the plan in the end. I started with the breadboard just to make sure I could get things to work, but I have the hardware to finish this properly. You have to understand the way my luck usually runs: Out of the 2-pack of transistors I bought for this, one was DOA right out of the package. I also bought the wrong IC (well, actually, I special-ordered the right one -- Sayal shipped the -12 version instead). And they only had 2 MUR-120 diodes in stock initially, so I decided to try a slightly slower one until I could get a third.

Quote
So no issue with interpolation or sampling. My initial thought was that the automated measurement maybe used the uninterpolated signal, and someone has shown that the sin x/x interpolation is not perfect.
I should have mentioned that sinx/x was off for all measurements shown. I did play with it a few times and it didn't seem to make any difference though.

Quote
I hope that's not a solderless breadboard, I would build a circuit like this on a piece of copperclad if I didn't have a proper PCB. Any parasitics may severely impact the performance. Something like a solderless breadboard would have parasitics one or two orders of magnitude worse than the parallel termination resistors Jim Williams is worrying about.
Ummm, can I plead the fifth on this question?  ::) I plan to break out a soldering iron in the near future, I promise! 

Quote
There's definitely something strange about the measurement. Does moving the trigger point to the right at 2ns/div so the low signal is longer help at all?
Yes, that seems to force it to use the pre-trigger value as the low:
(http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/dots250d.bmp)

Quote
The usual conversion factor is actually 0.35, not 0.34,, but I don't think it makes much sense to calculate this with many digits of precision, since the scope's response is unlikely to be perfectly Gaussian anyway. I would say that according to these results, the bandwidth is probably around 140MHz at these settings.
I've seen both 0.34 and 0.35, so I've been using the 0.34 factor as it produces the least optimistic results.

Quote
Any idea how this compares to your earlier measurements with the semi-Dirac pulse? Do you have a saved screenshot that you can use to estimate the rise time from? I'm wondering how much difference the very short pulse makes in this system.
Here's one of the original circuit, but with vectors, Rigol probes, etc.:
(http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/NewFile6.bmp)

Here's one with the 250MHz probes, dots, persistence, 10pF cap, etc. but with the charge cable disconnected to shorten the pulse back up:
(http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/dots250e.bmp)

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jahonen on May 06, 2011, 03:11:59 am
Quote
Unfortunately, he doesn't actually give his measurements in that post that I can see, which may be important since I'm not sure he's using the same stuff.
Yes, my version is the AN-47 one, and I just connected the coax in parallel with the collector capacitor, without inductor or adjustable series resistor with capacitor. I think one must be very careful when working with this stuff, it is really easy to pull wrong conclusions, if proper equipment is not available. Verifying the pulse requires a high bandwidth scope (+5 GHz). It seems that RG-178, RG-174 or RG-316 are pretty much the same performance-wise, but 316 and 178 are more robust environmentally. Hard line is probably rigid coax, which means solid copper tube with an insulator dielectric and center conductor.

Here is a picture:

(http://koti.mbnet.fi/jahonen/Electronics/AvalanchePulser/Pulser_assembled.jpg)

I have some ideas how to improve this. BNC connection seems to be difficult thing to do optimally (at least for my taste), as most PCB connectors seem to have a quite long area of uncontrolled impedance. Soldering components directly to the BNC jack leaves relatively large loops 3D-wise (maybe I'm getting little paranoid here). I think it would be best to begin the 50 ohm transmission line right from the transistor emitter, where the termination resistors are located. Maybe an edge mount SMA connector is the solution:

(http://www.aep.us/rsrcs/SMAedg2.jpg)

Regards,
Janne
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flolic on May 06, 2011, 04:16:42 am

I have some ideas how to improve this. BNC connection seems to be difficult thing to do optimally (at least for my taste), as most PCB connectors seem to have a quite long area of uncontrolled impedance. Soldering components directly to the BNC jack leaves relatively large loops 3D-wise (maybe I'm getting little paranoid here). I think it would be best to begin the 50 ohm transmission line right from the transistor emitter, where the termination resistors are located. Maybe an edge mount SMA connector is the solution:

(http://www.aep.us/rsrcs/SMAedg2.jpg)

Regards,
Janne

This is how I did it:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg3005#msg3005 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg3005#msg3005)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on May 06, 2011, 04:53:18 am
Jahonen, I have a question for you. The picture of the pulse-generator, seems to me like a factory-made device. Can you tell me where you bought it?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jahonen on May 06, 2011, 05:15:13 am
Jahonen, I have a question for you. The picture of the pulse-generator, seems to me like a factory-made device. Can you tell me where you bought it?

Actually, only the PCB is factory-made, the rest is hand-assembled :)

BTW, I think we should create a separate thread considering these pulse generators, to avoid hijacking this Rigol-specific thread.

Regards,
Janne
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on May 06, 2011, 05:19:25 am
Just one more question about the pule generator: from where do you have the PCB?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: RegAV on May 06, 2011, 07:09:06 am
Thanks Chet for the link, guess I'll have to read all 49 prev pages first, Ultrascope does not run either with missing dll error, another google required.

You don't need to read the whole story. You need to read page 1, post 1. All the critical information has been continuously updated in that post through the dedicated efforts of Polossatik.

To make things easier, I put all the files together in one package that you can download from
DS1052 Upgrade tools zip file
 (http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip)
EXCEPT Ultrascope (which comes from Rigol)

Great stuff torch, have got everything, even Ultrascope now functions ok, cheers mate!



I now have the mode done, many thanks to all.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 06, 2011, 04:54:53 pm
I soldered everything together this afternoon. It's as neat as I could do, but pretty ugly compared to jahonen's piece of art. Anyway, it certainly made a big difference, both by stabilizing the jitter issue I was experiencing and in the performance:

(http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/dotshard.bmp)

As with earlier today, that's displaying dots with persistence on and the manual cursors set as close to 10% and 90% as I could get. It's coupled directly to the scope, but I don't have an inline terminator so there's just a single 50ohm resistor on the board. I guess I'm going to have to switch it back to an 1102 to verify things now.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 07, 2011, 01:24:02 am
I guess I have to eat crow. There is a slight -- and I stress the word SLIGHT -- but consistent difference when the Rigol is told it is a DS1152E-EDU vs DS1102E. I have flashed and reflashed back and forth several times, (downgrade to 2.02SP2, change model and serial number, verify new info acccepted, upgrade to 2.04SP1, run self-calibration) and set up the identical configuration -- view dots, persistence on, average on, sinx/x off, normal trigger, 2ns/dif, 2v/div, measure to display max volts and rise time, manual cursors carefully adjusted to 10% and 90%.

As a DS1152E-EDU, the rise time is consistently about 1.84ns, +/-0.04ns. As a DS1102E, the rise time is consistently 1.96ns, +/-0.04ns. The margin of error is based on my manual skills considering the resolution of the display (bear in mind that I am now so, ummm, mature, that my reading glasses now need reading glasses   :( ) and even the automatic measurement flickers by 0.02ns from time to time. Anyway, here are some representative screen shots of each:

As a DS1102E:
(http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/1102hard3.bmp)

and as a DS1152E-EDU:
(http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/1152hard1.bmp)

I can not explain the difference. It makes no sense to have so slight a difference anyway! But it does seem to be real, as I said, I went back and forth several times to rule out environmental variables like ambient temperature, battery voltage, circuit burn-in, etc.

The only thing I can think of is that the area of memory where the data is stored may be changing as a result of the flash process. I recall reading something about the Rigol having 8 megs of flash ram but the F/W files are all 4 megs or less. The person was theorizing that the F/W is flashed to alternate halves each time (so it does not overwrite the existing F/W) and that the remaining 4 megs may then be used as data storage space. If this is so, then perhaps the different memory areas have slightly different access times which affects the sample rate ever so slightly??? I have no idea if this could be so, perhaps someone with more knowledge about the internals (drieg?) might have a better guess.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on May 07, 2011, 01:59:47 am
... or, maybe, your (or, our) lying eyes --it was not in my intentions to be heard becoming personal-- are actually seeing the result of the release of the software filtering of the bandwidth!

Another point is the use of the FLASH memory: It would be bad engineering to keep in the FLASH any variables, which update quite frequently, given that any FLASH memory cell can only be erased (in oder to be re-written) 10,000 to 100,000 times. That's why the variables are kept in EEPROM memories, which can be erased and re-written 100,000 to 1,000,000 times, respectively.

But Rigol engineers are very well aware of that and chose to keep the frequently updated variables NOT in a FLASH nor even in an EEPROM memory; they chose to keep them in an FRAM memory (the "FM24CL04" part, where the user’s settings are probably been stored), which can be erased and re-written indefinitely!

So, it is obvious that when the device is told to become a DS1152 unit, it simply stops any further software filtering of the bandwidth!
By the way, thank you for your insistent efforts to find any differences between the DS1102 and DS1152 modes of operation!


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: maze on May 07, 2011, 03:15:10 am
 :o it was so damn simple to modify the header and didn't brick the scope
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 07, 2011, 07:56:06 am
This afternoon I installed the pulser in a nice little metal project box, connected the case to ground and located the circuit board just above the case so it could be a ground plane, coiled the co-ax up nice and stuffed it in the box, buttoned it all up and connected it to the scope to test it. This is what I got when I flipped the switch on:

(http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/1152box1.bmp)

I'm not sure what to make of things now.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on May 07, 2011, 08:16:29 am
198.9 MHz bandwidth!
That's impressive!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tinhead on May 07, 2011, 11:38:15 am
I can not explain the difference. It makes no sense to have so slight a difference anyway! But it does seem to be real, as I said, I went back and forth several times to rule out environmental variables like ambient temperature, battery voltage, circuit burn-in, etc.

The only thing I can think of is that the area of memory where the data is stored may be changing as a result of the flash process. I recall reading something about the Rigol having 8 megs of flash ram but the F/W files are all 4 megs or less. The person was theorizing that the F/W is flashed to alternate halves each time (so it does not overwrite the existing F/W) and that the remaining 4 megs may then be used as data storage space. If this is so, then perhaps the different memory areas have slightly different access times which affects the sample rate ever so slightly??? I have no idea if this could be so, perhaps someone with more knowledge about the internals (drieg?) might have a better guess.

it does not have anything to do with flash, best example - Hantek/Tekway. Input stage like Rigol, flash / Soc totally diff. architecture/size.
It even does not have much to do with the varicap/cap combination between both opamps in input stage, Hantek/Tekway using them only for 60 and 20MHz,
but not 100 (like Rigol does to improve a bit the bw filter), 150 and 200Mhz bw reduction. Everything happens within FPGA design, where FPGA is talking to CPLD and CPLD is changing the gain of AD8370 (combination of digital low pass filter and gain control).
Everythign before AD8370 is flat (to over 300MHz), everything after AD8370 is cut depends on model settingsand not on components values.
Rigol is probably using exact the same way, sure the varicap/cap are used for 100/60 and 20Mhz on Rigols, but that's didin't
really matter (from bw point of view).
So if there is DS1152E model within the firmware, then the firmware is doing "the magic", and not an analog filter.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flolic on May 07, 2011, 07:55:17 pm
Ok, one thing is not clear to me.

My scope is original DS1102E with hardware version 05 and firmware 00.02.02 SP2.
I tried to upgrade to 1152E-EDU but somehow it is not possible (or I am doing something wrong). With demoIDN tool I can change model to 1152E, but
i can't achieve that "-EDU" part. Splash screen on startup is same as before, and system info says just DS1152E.

My scope was originally like this:
:INFO:MODEL DS1102E
:INFO:SERIAL DS1EB113*****1

Then I changed it to:
:INFO:MODEL DS1152E
:INFO:SERIAL DS1EF113*****1

But nothing happened, except model name changed. Btw I can change model to 1152E without altering serial number (DS1EB113*****1 works just fine).

Any thoughts on this?  ???

EDIT:
This is rise time measurement from my scope, LP filter removed.
Equ -time sampling, 8x averaged

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 07, 2011, 08:40:26 pm
Did you enter the model number as "DS1152E-EDU" or just "DS1152E"? The former changes the splash screen to:

(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=7504;image)

Adding 40" of RG-174/U in series with a 100 ohm trim pot connected with the core to the transistor collector and shield to ground (other end left unterminated) plus changing the cap that is connected to the collector to 10pf will broaden the pulse so it is more nearly square as shown in my screen shots. This was recommended to me to ensure the scope has time to capture the full voltage of the pulse.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flolic on May 07, 2011, 08:46:56 pm
I enter just "DS1152E"

I will connect coaxial cable and try again  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flolic on May 07, 2011, 09:51:20 pm
Ok, I managed to change model to DS1152-EDU but performance is exactly as before.

This is with coaxial cable and trim pot connected to pulser:

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 07, 2011, 10:11:17 pm
Ok, I managed to change model to DS1152-EDU but performance is exactly as before.

Yeah, I kind of suspected that. Just window dressing

Quote
This is with coaxial cable and trim pot connected to pulser:

I see your voltage came up, but is still about half what mine is showing. I wonder why? The pulse shape is pretty similar to mine though. Maybe a difference in a cap value somewhere.

I wish I had access to a high speed scope to test my pulser and confirm it's performance, because either:
a) your scope is faster than mine, or
b) my pulser circuit is slower than yours. Since I saw a difference just closing it in, and since I'm pretty new at all this, my money is on option b. But it could well be a difference in tolerances between the two scopes -- after all, we are pushing them at something like four times what we paid for ;-)

It would be interesting to know if you see a difference between telling your scope it's an 1102 or an 1152 model. In other words, can my results be duplicated or are they an anomaly?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flolic on May 07, 2011, 10:56:30 pm

I see your voltage came up, but is still about half what mine is showing. I wonder why? The pulse shape is pretty similar to mine though. Maybe a difference in a cap value somewhere.
My pulser is connected to scope via feed-through 50ohm 10dB attenuator. Also I'm using 1 meter of RG58 coax as transmission line, and finally transistor in pulser is just a relatively slow BC337.

I wish I had access to a high speed scope to test my pulser and confirm it's performance, because either:
a) your scope is faster than mine, or
I would say, yes. I completely removed bandwidth limiting filters in both channels. And I changed resistors around LMH6552 amplifier from 365 to 270 ohms.

b) my pulser circuit is slower than yours. Since I saw a difference just closing it in, and since I'm pretty new at all this, my money is on option b. But it could well be a difference in tolerances between the two scopes -- after all, we are pushing them at something like four times what we paid for ;-)
I really don't know about exact pulser speed. Unfortunately, I don't have access to high speed scope to check what is really going on...

It would be interesting to know if you see a difference between telling your scope it's an 1102 or an 1152 model. In other words, can my results be duplicated or are they an anomaly?
In my case, no difference at all...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: therian on May 08, 2011, 06:15:46 am
Ok, I managed to change model to DS1152-EDU but performance is exactly as before.
I have DS1102E (nice to know HW 07 isn't odd, I thought I mess it up) and I cant get model to show us DS1152-EDU in info screen, how did you manage to show up -EDU part ?
by the way I saved some REF of signals on DS1102E and there is tiny but constant difference when I alight them with same signal on DS1152 (no more than a pixel or two in amplitude), line is more jumpy and have sharper corners
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: flolic on May 08, 2011, 06:25:59 am
I have DS1102E (nice to know HW 07 isn't odd, I thought I mess it up) and I cant get model to show us DS1152-EDU in info screen, how did you manage to show up -EDU part ?

In demoIDN tool, change name to "DS1152E-EDU"

Like this:
:INFO:MODEL DS1152E-EDU
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 08, 2011, 12:49:22 pm
I would say, yes. I completely removed bandwidth limiting filters in both channels. And I changed resistors around LMH6552 amplifier from 365 to 270 ohms.
Yeah, that might explain it!  :D

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on May 09, 2011, 04:15:59 pm
In the attachment you can see the pulse generator made by Jahonen. He confirmed that this is a factory-made PCB.
My question: where can one buy this PCB-board (or is it a kit?). Can anybody help me, so I can test my modified Rigol DS1052E?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jahonen on May 09, 2011, 05:03:10 pm
In the attachment you can see the pulse generator made by Jahonen. He confirmed that this is a factory-made PCB.
My question: where can one buy this PCB-board (or is it a kit?). Can anybody help me, so I can test my modified Rigol DS1052E?

The PCB is designed by me, I have still few PCB's left if you don't mind building one yourself.

Regards,
Janne
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on May 09, 2011, 07:21:54 pm
This would be great! Tell me how I can order it. Thanks!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jahonen on May 09, 2011, 07:29:55 pm
This would be great! Tell me how I can order it. Thanks!
Just PM or drop me an e-mail.

Regrads,
Janne
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on May 14, 2011, 03:50:17 pm
Hi Ronaldlijs. Been there, done that. I also made this beginners fault >:(. One has to remove first the power button cover before opening the scope.
It took me 3 days to search the internet before I was able to find any information on the switch. Here is what I have got: It is a PS5B-01 push button switch from BEJ Electronics Co.,Ltd, located in China.
But then it took me even much longer to get in contact with these guys. They didn’t react on my honest mails, explaining that such a PS5B-01 got broken and that I wanted to receive a new one. In the long run, I wrote a mail to the CEO, asking for a sample of the switch. As he thought I was going to retrieve large quantities of this switch afterwards, he sent me over such switches with a heavy catalogue. The transportation-cost was for me, so I can assure you that this is the most expensive power switch in a scope (over €100,00).
I still have a spare PS5B-01 available. Since I presume I will not break it an extra time, I can send it over to you. I would appreciate if you just pay the transport-cost of this switch from Belgium to the UK. In any case, this will be cheaper then what I had to pay for that heavy catalogue from China :D.
Leave me your e-mail address, so we can arrange the details via e-mail, instead of via this forum.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 14, 2011, 05:30:09 pm
you can cut something to shape and become a button. but thats just me.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Chet T16 on May 14, 2011, 07:06:27 pm
For 100 euro i'd be licking my finger and sticking it in there instead  :D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 14, 2011, 08:39:50 pm
I thought I broke my power button the other day. I was turning it off and I guess I didn't hit the button dead centre, so my finger slid off the edge. The spring popped the button back up with enough force that it flew off, however, I just had to press it back into place (hmmm, what's the emoticon for "extremely relieved"?).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on May 14, 2011, 10:12:09 pm
For 100 euro i'd be licking my finger and sticking it in there instead  :D
When I told the CEO of BEJ Electronics Co.,Ltd that he could sent it over on my costs, I didn’t know that he was going to add a heavy catalogue! So I only saw the transport price after I received it. Otherwise I also would have thought of an alternative solution. But now its done, I enjoy twice as much of the result and I try to forget the financial side of it.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: PROTEK on May 17, 2011, 06:18:54 am
Good afternoon I did the hack on my 02.04.sp1 02.02.sp2 ran back to 100% after it was upgraded again ok, so ainada not know how to test if this 100mhz ..
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 17, 2011, 07:40:53 am
Good afternoon I did the hack on my 02.04.sp1 02.02.sp2 ran back to 100% after it was upgraded again ok, so ainada not know how to test if this 100mhz ..

If you see "DS1102E" when you check the system info (Utilities, down arrow [lower button menu button] to reach page 3 of 3, system info) then the hack was successful.

To test the actual performance of your scope, you will need a very fast-rise pulse generator, as described above. The rise time should be less than 1 microsecond nanosecond -- faster than the scope can measure. Measure the time it takes for the scope to show the pulse rising from 10% of the voltage to 90% of the voltage. 340/RT= scope Gaussian frequency response in MHz. Approximately There are differences between a digital storage scope and an analogue scope so this is not a perfect science.

Most people who do this testing report that the scope is reasonably accurate at speeds over 150MHz -- some approaching 200MHz -- with the proviso that it requires either equivalent time mode or averaging to get a steady trace at those high speeds.  It's a little jittery in real time mode without any averaging (although still quite impressive).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 17, 2011, 01:56:50 pm
The rise time should be less than 1 microsecond --
nano, not micro.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 17, 2011, 02:10:53 pm
nano, not micro.

I can't believe I screwed that up after all the tests I did  ::)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: copiertalk on May 19, 2011, 02:41:46 pm
Thank you for the help and upgraded scope.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: therian on May 19, 2011, 03:45:34 pm

My scope is original DS1102E with hardware version 05 and firmware 00.02.02 SP2.


On the first page there are recommendations on installing firmware versions that best suitable for hardware version. But it talk about DS1052 so hardware versions much higher than DS1102E (mine 07). Did you or anyone else try to install newer firmware than 00.02.04 SP1 ? I suspect there is a bug in 00.02.04 SP1 since pressing STOP button don't immediately freeze picture but instead capture the next trigger event and stop 

p.s. anyone know how to disable help menu? it annoying interruption when button get press for too long
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mr-400-Volt on May 21, 2011, 05:48:55 pm
Hi, sorry for my bad English, i try my best. I got my Rigol 1052e today with FW 2.05. The HW-Version is not Displayed. Can i turn it into a 100MHZ Version ? Has everybody a TUT/step by step how to do this ?

Thank´s a lot.....
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: fminne on May 22, 2011, 02:09:17 am
Has everybody a TUT/step by step how to do this ?
On the first page of this topic, Polossatik has explained eveything step by step. For the latest downgrade-firmware see from page 43 of this topic.
Good luck , Frank.
Title: Measurement Correlation Fault
Post by: xO on May 22, 2011, 07:06:32 am
A big "thanks" to Polossatik for summarizing the upgrade information and keeping the first post current. Also many thanks to all the contibutors, especially A Hellene for his insight into decoding the fw headers (see post #42404).

Most of this thread has focused on upgrading the scope's bandwidth. However, not much is mentioned on other limitations. I spent some time checking the scope's features and found a couple problems. First, there appears to be a serious flaw in the measurement system. In short, what you see on the screen is NOT what the scope is measuring! This can be verified as follows:

RIGOL MEASUREMENT FAULT DEMO

1. select Measure > Voltage > Vmax
2. connect probe to square wave calibrator
3. press AUTO
4. press STOP

NOTE: Vmax reads 3.08V

5. select Measure > Clear
6. connect probe to ground
7. press RUN
8. press STOP

NOTE: display trace is at ground level

9. select Measure > Voltage > Vmax

NOTE: Vmax still reads 3.08V (previous measurement!)

To make matters worse, measurement results "appear" to be correct when the scope is running and triggered. But readings always reflect some earlier data set. Only when a waveform is continuous and unchanging will measurement results achieve any kind of reliability. Unfortunately, without being able to correlate with what is on the screen makes this scope nearly worthless for serious analytic work.

Another significant feature that's lacking is the ability to measure MATH channel waveforms. A voltage waveform on CH1 could be multiplied by a current waveform on CH2 to produce a power waveform on the MATH CH. If cursors were applied to delimit the period, and an "average" measurement selected, we could display the power of any complex waveform. None of that is possible on the Rigol. Even entry level Tektronix scopes have had that capability for over 20 years now.

It would be nice if Rigol could address these problems via a firmware fix. But that may not be possible. It may be a more fundamental hardware or design limitation.

xO
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 22, 2011, 11:05:41 am
turning on math FFT on single channel will reduce the sampling rate too (1GS/s -> 500MS/s). the only explanation is limited processing power. i never used Vmax seriously though.
Title: Re: Measurement Correlation Fault
Post by: joh on May 22, 2011, 06:29:53 pm
Hi xO,

I read you post with interest and echo your thanks to Polossatik & Hellene. May I further ask which version of the firmware you completed your tests with?

Regards, J.

A big "thanks" to Polossatik for summarizing the upgrade information and keeping the first post current. Also many thanks to all the contibutors, especially A Hellene for his insight into decoding the fw headers (see post #42404).

Most of this thread has focused on upgrading the scope's bandwidth. However, not much is mentioned on other limitations. I spent some time checking the scope's features and found a couple problems. First, there appears to be a serious flaw in the measurement system. In short, what you see on the screen is NOT what the scope is measuring! This can be verified as follows:

RIGOL MEASUREMENT FAULT DEMO

1. select Measure > Voltage > Vmax
2. connect probe to square wave calibrator
3. press AUTO
4. press STOP

NOTE: Vmax reads 3.08V

5. select Measure > Clear
6. connect probe to ground
7. press RUN
8. press STOP

NOTE: display trace is at ground level

9. select Measure > Voltage > Vmax

NOTE: Vmax still reads 3.08V (previous measurement!)

To make matters worse, measurement results "appear" to be correct when the scope is running and triggered. But readings always reflect some earlier data set. Only when a waveform is continuous and unchanging will measurement results achieve any kind of reliability. Unfortunately, without being able to correlate with what is on the screen makes this scope nearly worthless for serious analytic work.

Another significant feature that's lacking is the ability to measure MATH channel waveforms. A voltage waveform on CH1 could be multiplied by a current waveform on CH2 to produce a power waveform on the MATH CH. If cursors were applied to delimit the period, and an "average" measurement selected, we could display the power of any complex waveform. None of that is possible on the Rigol. Even entry level Tektronix scopes have had that capability for over 20 years now.

It would be nice if Rigol could address these problems via a firmware fix. But that may not be possible. It may be a more fundamental hardware or design limitation.

xO
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on May 22, 2011, 07:43:15 pm
Same here, much thanks Xo, for detailing that bug.  I have others that received little attention, I posted them here:

I noticed that too, but really didn't pay it much attention, until your note.  I have firmware 2.04 unmodded.  But I am old school and still read the graticules to confirm the automated measurement.

These continue to annoy and vex me because it interrupts functionality:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2222.0 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2222.0)

I would love to start a separate thread on bug reports alone.  Although this thread is very busy, it also has a mix of topics and can make finding archived issues hard to find, even with a search tool.


Hi xO,

I read you post with interest and echo your thanks to Polossatik & Hellene. May I further ask which version of the firmware you completed your tests with?

Regards, J.


Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Kuolas on May 23, 2011, 09:47:13 am
Hello, I'm reporting a succeful Rigol DS1052E -> DS1102E Upgrade. It's original Firware was 00.02.05.02.00 and HW58. After all the process I left it with the Firmware 2.04 SP1.

I didn't planed to upgrade the unit, I don't need (yet) the extra bandwith... but the Screen Flickering Bug got my nerves.

So... If i need to downgrade, let's downgrade the way it's meant to be downgraded(TM).

After the Upgrade and self-calibration, the unit on the calibration probe, the measurement were all wrong, I though "damn, I destroyed my Rigol" but that was before I realized that the probe wan on 10X and the Osc. CH1 was on 1X  :P

Really thanks to A Hellene for the Firmware downgrade and Polossatik for the guide, thank you guys!
Title: Re: Measurement Correlation Fault
Post by: torch on May 24, 2011, 08:12:46 am
It would be nice if Rigol could address these problems via a firmware fix. But that may not be possible.

NO! NO! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NO!

Lately every time Rigol releases a new firmware, something else is broke. Someone around here even compared them to Microsoft. :D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 24, 2011, 01:35:44 pm
to make it unhackable, something else will be broken. so in the newer firmware, you'll got 2 gifts:
1) unhackable firmware using existing method
2) buggy firmware.
thats how their software programmer's intelligent work aka "stupid".
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: PROTEK on May 25, 2011, 12:43:13 am

Friends came a doubt when I check the fw version information by pressing the system after ch1, ch2 and power up the mat on this 133 times and i see most in this 17 or 33, is this normal? Thank you!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 25, 2011, 01:58:54 am
Ok, I'm not sure what you are asking. You pressed "Utility", down to page 3 and "System Info", then "CH1" "CH1" "CH2" "CH2" "MATH" -- Right?

The 'Power Up Times' (in red) is a count of the number of times the unit has been turned on. It should increase by 1 every time the unit is turned on.

If yours says "133" but you have only turned it on 17 times yourself, then my guess is your unit was not new. It may have been a refurbished unit that was returned by someone else. (Note: even a new unit will have a few counts from when it was turned on in the factory and the firmware was loaded or updated.)

If yours says "17" but you have turned it on 133 times, then something is wrong. I don't think it really matters to the user how many times the scope has been turned on, but if there is one problem, there may be more.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: PROTEK on May 25, 2011, 02:51:22 am

Torch ok friend I believe is right and I myself I turn it several times a day should be why the number is already high. so this is not a question not cause any trouble? thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Lightages on May 25, 2011, 11:47:47 am
Thanks for the work that everyone put into this. I have successfully upgraded my scope to 1152EDU version using these instructions here. I just received my 1052 from dealextreme today after waiting 2 months for shipping and for it to clear customs here in Chile. It had 02.05.02 SP2 and HW58 and everything went fine. I installed 2.04sp1 as suggested and the scope is going through a self cal right now.

Oh yes, I used demoIDN.exe because the rigupgr.exe tool reported my serial number as DS1EBxxxxxxxxx instead of DS1EDxxxxxxxxx. I used my correct serial number of course.

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mr-400-Volt on May 29, 2011, 04:28:31 am
Hi, i have changed my Rigol 1052E to 1102E successful. The original Firmware was 02.05.02.00 . The actual is 2.04.01 .02. Can i update it to the higher FW without problems ? Where can i get it ?

Thank´s
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on May 29, 2011, 05:33:27 am
It's in the package of files I posted at http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip (http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip). There's also a link to just that file around here somewhere.

That said, I don't recommend it. Many people using the latest firmware are now complaining about a flickering screen problem -- flashes of intermittent white, blank screen that appear sporadically. 2.04 SP1 seems to be the best firmware available: almost bug free and all the features work. The only bug I know of is the measurement bug which displays the last stored voltage measurement instead of measuring the displayed waveform. This only happens when you turn on the auto measurement function with the scope stopped. A minor issue that is easily worked around.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mr-400-Volt on May 29, 2011, 10:16:24 pm
Hi, i have upgrade my Hacked DS1052e (DS1102e) from 02.04.01.02 to the latest 02.05.02.00 and it runs. I have no Screen problems, and no Measurement bug.  ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Lunat1c on June 02, 2011, 08:11:19 am
Do changes in firmware affect the calibration settings? I received my unit today and it has official calibration documents with it. I don't wish to mess up the calibration settings if I dowgrade to the appropriate firmware version to apply the hack (mine is 2.05.02.00 SP2)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on June 02, 2011, 12:02:46 pm
Do changes in firmware affect the calibration settings?

As I understand it, the stored calibration data is unique to the machine, but not the firmware. That said, don't self-calibrate one of the HW58 machines while running 2.02 firmware during the downgrade. It's fine to run the self-calibration function after the final upgrade to 2.04 SP2 (or whatever other HW58-compatible version you decide to use).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: BobD on June 20, 2011, 02:18:36 am
Just did the upgrade to my brand new DS1052E.  Afterwards did the self calibration.  All worked beautifully.  Thanks guys.  :D
Now for a quieter fan which is on order.  Where do I find case removal instructions?  Yes I know it will void the warranty.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on June 20, 2011, 03:09:38 am
The cooling fan is running on 12V unregulated, directly from the -12V rail of the internal switching PSU. Should you decide to silence the fan, I think it would be better to insert an 8V regulator (like the old LM7808/LM7908) to decrease its rotational speed and airflow.

But, if you asked me, I wouldn't touch the cooling fan since it is needed for the good operation of the unit. That is because almost half of the power consumed from the mains (12.87W measured (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.msg49777#msg49777) out of the 23VA totally consumed (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.msg49914#msg49914)) goes to the actual oscilloscope circuitry, and what remains becomes heat within its casing; heat that has to be let out or it will shorten the life of the device or even destroy it.

The right answer would be a redesigned or a modified PSU that does not produce those amounts of heat within the unit.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tome on June 21, 2011, 12:48:10 am
I just received my DS1052E scope and want to do the upgrade to 100MHz.  It shows:

Software Version: 00.02.05.02.00
Hardware Version: 58

Can i use the files talked about in A Hellene's post (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404)?
The reason I ask is that he talks about a 2.05.02.01.header.zip file, but as you see above I have 00.02.05.02.00...

Edit:  Oh, and can I go from 02.02 directly to 02.05.02 after the upgrade or do I need to go to 02.04.xx first?

Edit:  I now see Torch's post above that contains the files for 02.05.02 (I believe)...

Thanks,
Tom
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on June 21, 2011, 01:12:18 am
Ah, Tom, I can see that I have confused you with my blabbing!

Yes, of course you can! This is the whole idea behind firmware upgrade: To load a firmware of a higher revision.
For example, 2.05.02.01 is a higher revision firmware in comparison to 2.05.02.00 or lower!

By the way, you need the "2.05.02.00 to 2.02.02.00 DS1000E series firmware.zip (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=7225)" --not the "2.05.02.01.header.zip (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=7175)" file that was intended to explain the inner workings of the update.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tome on June 21, 2011, 01:21:31 am
Very cool George.  Thanks for the clarification and all your work!
Tom

Ah, Tom, I can see that I have confused you with my blabbing!

Yes, of course you can! This is the whole idea behind firmware upgrade: To load a firmware of a higher revision.
For example, 2.05.02.01 is a higher revision firmware in comparison to 2.05.02.00 or lower!

By the way, you need the "2.05.02.00 to 2.02.02.00 DS1000E series firmware.zip (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=7225)" --not the "2.05.02.01.header.zip (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=553.0;attach=7175)" file that was intended to explain the inner workings of the update.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on June 21, 2011, 01:25:21 am
You are welcome, Tom.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: tome on June 21, 2011, 05:21:13 am
Seems to be a success.  Hopefully will get a chance to test it out soon.  Thanks!

(http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/Rigol1052E-Orig-HDWR-Obsc.jpg)

(http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/Rigol1052E-Updated-HDWR-Obsc.jpg)

(http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/Rigol-2ns.jpg)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: big t on July 02, 2011, 12:46:07 am
Hello,

Done. Works like a charm. Thanks to all  ;)

Software Version: 00.02.05.02.00
Hardware Version: 58
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Dimitrije on July 08, 2011, 09:22:14 am
Hack successful.

00.02.05.02.00 -> 00.02.02.02.00 -> 00.02.04.01.02

Hardware Version: 58

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this guide especially Polossatik, A Hellene & Mechatrommer.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: hesdelineating on July 14, 2011, 03:20:26 am
..and another ds1052e got hacked...

Hardware Version: 58
with a usb-stick from 00.02.05.02.00 to 00.02.02.02.00
then changed the serial
and re upgraded to 00.02.04.01.02 with a usb stick.

Thanks to all who made this possible....
Especially A Hellene & Polossatik
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 14, 2011, 04:03:45 am
For all those thinking of changing (or those who already have changed) their new Rigol scopes (and I am in these groups myself), I thought it might be interesting to re-post this message from the rcgroups thread on the DS1052E.  It was the only message ever posted by this particular user (Bruwer) - he makes some very good points - and somehow I have the vague impression that he might be involved in the manufacturing himself.  Anyway, it's food for thought:

Quote
Bruwer
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1

Rigol and Competition

Ok I am a late comer to this discussion.

You have to realise that there are a number of very similar Chinese made oscilloscopes out there.
Siglent, Atten, Owon, Agilent, Tektronics (Tekway), Hantek.

Who is copying who?
Each manufacturer does not want to give out any information that can help any of the others.

All of the above names have units with varying bandwidths. ALL can be changed by software from one version to another. All of them.
However, there is a reason why that all of them have these different units that does not seem to have been brought up here.
Selection during the testing process.
Pass or fail for an attribute.
So if you do change your unit from one model number to another then you will end up with a unit that will not meet their criteria for that model in some way or other.

A common reason for failure is that the ICs used are at the lower end of their manufacturers specifications. This is very relevant in these oscilloscopes as they all stretch the capabilities of the devices as much as they can.

Another is internal noise due to small changes that occur during the assembly process. Why? Because the original design is flawed. No one seems to be able to (or want to) correct that flaw.

However this is all normal for the common processes of design and manufacture, and not only in China. Of course marketing also comes into play.

So enjoy what you have. Make whatever changes you want. You own the unit after all.
Incidentally they all can easily be converted to battery power, if you want to use them in the field. There is room inside for batteries. If you remove the power supply module then a standard 12V computer power supply fits in nicely along with a small mains battery charger.

You will have to adapt the output of the computer power supply to suit the particular brand of oscilloscope that you have. But it is not difficult.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on July 14, 2011, 07:31:40 am
The issue of selection during the testing process was brought up here on one of the original threads -- "The Rigol DS1052E" I think -- and if I recall correctly, it didn't seem to hold water under field testing. There were no significant differences in performance between "genuine" DS1102E models and modified DS1052E models. It MAY come in to play compared to the DS1152-EDU model (150MHz). But nobody here seems to have a genuine 1152 to compare with.

I like the battery power idea. I like it a lot... I've been thinking about that since someone (tinhead?) was talking about how inefficient the power supply is and how it shouldn't be drawing as much current as it is.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: bilko on July 14, 2011, 07:48:43 am
I like the battery power idea. I like it a lot... I've been thinking about that since someone (tinhead?) was talking about how inefficient the power supply is and how it shouldn't be drawing as much current as it is.
Yes, that would be a definite plus factor, anybody looked at doing this yet ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on July 14, 2011, 07:50:08 am
[...]
how inefficient the power supply is
[...]
Ah, that was yours (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.msg49777#msg49777) truly (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.msg49914#msg49914)!

And, yes, it can very easily be done with a couple of SiC413 (€ 3.50 each), a cheap AVR (or another fast 8-bit) microcontroller and a few passive components.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 14, 2011, 08:32:10 am
Quote
The issue of selection during the testing process was brought up here on one of the original threads -- "The Rigol DS1052E" I think -- and if I recall correctly, it didn't seem to hold water under field testing. There were no significant differences in performance between "genuine" DS1102E models and modified DS1052E models. It MAY come in to play compared to the DS1152-EDU model (150MHz). But nobody here seems to have a genuine 1152 to compare with.

Yes, I saw this mentioned in that thread as well (I think it was compared to Intel and their CPU speeds), but I thought this commenter laid it out particularly well.  Anyone who works with high-speed electronics know that their performance and adherence to specifications lies on a bell curve.  To me it seems obvious that the 50MHz Rigol scopes are ABSOLUTELY the slightly off-spec 100MHz scopes - the edges on either side of the bell curve.  It's really the only logical explanation in terms of cost and manufacturing and... well, pretty much everything.

And, honestly, what do you mean by field testing?  Some significantly large sample of people with the hacked scope - plus access to faster scopes, precision function and voltage generators, etc - have run the dozens of tests needed to see if they are fully in spec in every regard?  Perhaps a few ARE -  but most of them are probably off spec in a single attribute or two - or perhaps it's just when an external trigger is used, or extra high voltages, or....  some other combination of disparate factors.

Again, I have nothing at all against the hack - I love hacks; I've even thinking about it myself.  But I'm realistic enough to understand that what I'll probably be getting by it is a slightly off-spec 100MHz scope.

Quote
I like the battery power idea. I like it a lot... I've been thinking about that since someone (tinhead?) was talking about how inefficient the power supply is and how it shouldn't be drawing as much current as it is.

My little Tektronix 212 (with a tiny CRT) has been running off 10x A NiCad batteries for the last 35 years - not the same batteries obviously  :)  I've had to replace them 3 or 4 times.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on July 14, 2011, 09:56:42 am
@ George: You are correct, it was you, but it was http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404 (http://this post) I was thinking of. I apologize for crediting the wrong person. I knew it was one of the smart ones, anyway.  ;)

@marmad: By field testing, I mean all the testing done by hackers on this site. Not identical tests and protocols like you would have in a factory, as everyone has different equipment of differing quality and capability.

And you are absolutely correct that the absolute upper end of performance seems to vary a bit from machine to machine, even allowing for the above. But that variation (so far) has all been considerably above 100MHz performance levels. That's why I brought up the DS1152-EDU, which is ostensibly a 150MHz version of this unit. I think it is absolutely likely that the 1152 units are culled from the cream of the crop. In my own testing, using my equipment and limited skills, there was a very slight, but repeatable, difference switching back and forth between 1102 and 1152. So slight I can't see anyone paying good money for the difference. But someone (and I'm almost certain this time it was tinhead  ;D) changed some of the front end components and was closing in on 200MHz.

Now, looking at the "nasty surprise" thread(s), the situation may have changed. Rigol may well be shipping sub-standard units as DS1052E models now.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on July 14, 2011, 10:09:35 am
No need for apologies. :)

Actually, tinhead has posted a hack for the Tekway PSU, if I can remember accurately, to decrease noise and thermal losses.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: scrat on July 14, 2011, 06:48:59 pm
Yes, I saw this mentioned in that thread as well (I think it was compared to Intel and their CPU speeds), but I thought this commenter laid it out particularly well.  Anyone who works with high-speed electronics know that their performance and adherence to specifications lies on a bell curve.  To me it seems obvious that the 50MHz Rigol scopes are ABSOLUTELY the slightly off-spec 100MHz scopes - the edges on either side of the bell curve.  It's really the only logical explanation in terms of cost and manufacturing and... well, pretty much everything.

But there could also be a simple marketing reason: DS1052 model demand is perhaps much larger than that of the DS1102, so they could just be marking the units based on production and demand... Of course, having to test all of the units (for calibration, at least), they will mark as 50MHz the worst ones, but there could be potentially good 100MHz ones sold as 50MHz.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 14, 2011, 09:28:57 pm
Quote
Of course, having to test all of the units (for calibration, at least), they will mark as 50MHz the worst ones, but there could be potentially good 100MHz ones sold as 50MHz.

Absolutely; I'm sure that there are.... and perhaps even more now since I'm sure they've had a surge in sales since this hack became public.

But one thing I've learned from most Chinese companies is that they might do anything to save a buck if it doesn't immediately and directly impact sales - such as overdriving circuits, not providing any serious support, not fixing bugs, etc.

So if, pre-hack, Rigol was selling, for example, X number of DS1052s and X/2 number of DS1102s - their design and choice of components would reflect, in general, the need for the amount of tested scopes to fall along that curve.

Now let's say, post-hack, they are selling X*4 number of DS1052s and X/4 number of DS1102s, and they could save X number of dollars by substituting slightly less costly caps or speed-rated versions of ICs because the tested scopes will still fall along their new sales projection graph; would they do so?  Perhaps, perhaps not - it's hard to say.

In any case, I will likely do the hack after my warranty runs out  :)  (as well as changing the fan and adding a battery pack).  I just will be aware that it could be slightly lacking in some respects to a tested-at-the-factory 100MHz scope.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on July 14, 2011, 09:36:11 pm
Actually, tinhead has posted a hack for the Tekway PSU, if I can remember accurately, to decrease noise and thermal losses.

Do you mean this thread: this thread?  (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg42363#msg42363) It appears he was focussed on cleaning up some ripple more than reducing power loss through wasted heat, although he does mention replacing an "unnecessary heat-engine".

I have yet to examine the Rigol PSU so I have no idea if any of that might be applicable.

BTW: What's the micro-controller for? Excuse my naivete, but from the measurements you took, (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.msg49777#msg49777)  The Rigol needs 6.4v, 15v and -12v. I'm guessing you plan to tie the +12v output of one buck converter to the -6.4v and -15v output of two more buck converters to get the voltages, and the buck converters need a few passive components to set their levels, but I don't see where the micro-controller fits into the picture?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on July 14, 2011, 09:48:57 pm
Last month i was in talks with Rigol to become an official distributor ( decided against it ) and was given sales figures for the DS1052 and the DS1152 models for Europe. The ratio is around 10:1. Also there is no difference between the 1052 and the 1152, only difference is the model numbers in the firmware and a sticker.
Rigol are very much aware of the hack and it means nothing to them. They are simply interested in the number of DS1000 units they sell. Selling the DS1000 series hardware with different frequency ratings is just to open the market to people that think they will get a better scope if its 100Mhz. 90% of unit sales from there whole range of equipment is the DS1052 the rest is just icing on the cake. Don't ask me for the sales figures i wont release them.

Edit, there second best selling item is the DG1022 function generator.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 14, 2011, 10:06:09 pm
Quote
Also there is no difference between the 1052 and the 1152, only difference is the model numbers in the firmware and a sticker.

This is what they told you - a prospective distributor in a foreign country?

You're still ignoring the reality of manufacturing and electronics - some units have less or better specifications - it's simply a fact of the "typical/minimum/maximum" rating of electronic parts and inevitable glitches in assembly and construction.  You think that if one of the finished scope's bandwidth is rolling off around 80MHz, that they are going to chuck it into the garbage?  Or spend time and money replacing components?  Or just slap the DS1052E label on it?

Honestly, why do people want to convince themselves that their hacked scope is, in every possible tested attribute and combination of attributes, the equivalent of a 100MHz scope?

Quote
The ratio is around 10:1.

Ha, I proposed X*4 number of DS1052s vs X/4 number of DS1102s - which is 16:1.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on July 14, 2011, 10:11:34 pm
That reminds me of my buddy who bought a brand-new 5L Mustang (many years ago). Remote trunk* release was a $200 or $300 option which he didn't buy.

Shortly after he purchased it, we were checking out the underside. Damned if there wasn't a strange set of wires leading up to the rear of the trunk. A closer look revealed that the release mechanism was in place. The wires led back to the glove box. The only thing missing was the push-button itself.

It was cheaper for Ford to install one standard harness assembly for all cars than to make a separate harness for those that ordered the trunk release option. And I'm pretty sure they didn't test for bell curves...  ;D

(Needless to say, he didn't send Ford the extra money when we installed a suitable push-button)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on July 15, 2011, 03:27:11 am
That's very very revealing, dimlow, thanks for sharing. 

Can you share what Rigol ranks in terms of sales compared to the overall market for DSO, or just for the units in this class, that is 50 MHz DSO?  You don't have to reveal the actual amounts.

In the USA Rigol website, they claim they are #2 or #1 in sales in this class of DSO back in 2008, just wondering if this is still valid.

Did they comment on what they think of its other Chinese brand competitors, Atten, Hantek, Owon?
 



Last month i was in talks with Rigol to become an official distributor ( decided against it ) and was given sales figures for the DS1052 and the DS1152 models for Europe. The ratio is around 10:1. Also there is no difference between the 1052 and the 1152, only difference is the model numbers in the firmware and a sticker.
Rigol are very much aware of the hack and it means nothing to them. They are simply interested in the number of DS1000 units they sell. Selling the DS1000 series hardware with different frequency ratings is just to open the market to people that think they will get a better scope if its 100Mhz. 90% of unit sales from there whole range of equipment is the DS1052 the rest is just icing on the cake. Don't ask me for the sales figures i wont release them.

Edit, there second best selling item is the DG1022 function generator.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dimlow on July 15, 2011, 07:03:45 am
Sorry I don't have that information, only three months of sales, I have to say looking at the data again, I was wrong with the ratio's. I did it from memory I think I got confused with the DS1052D figures

DS1052 to DS1152 ratio is in fact closer to 5:1

Here are the actual sale figures from one of the largest distributor. The data I have also indicates what dates these scopes were ordered from Rigol and other information that I don't think I should release, or-though Rigol has not said I cant do so.

(Cant get the spacing right on this)
DS1052E   DS1102E   DS1052D   DS1102D   DG1022 Others
210            43            12            18              127         24

This of course is only one distributor in Europe, what their total sales figure are, i have no idea.

I had no data about other manufacturers.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 21, 2011, 04:52:24 am
Hey guys,

Just oredered a DS1052E from Germany, should be delivered in 2-3 days. I am not sure which firmware it will be delivered with but I hope I can do the hack!

Has anyone tried the hack with a recent purchace? would be nice to know!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 21, 2011, 06:30:40 am
@sean87

Did you buy from Batronix?  I just bought from them - and although the hack is likely possible, it would void your 3 year warranty - which sort of defeats the purpose of buying in the EU.

I'm actually in communication with them now about the flickering screen bug problem in the latest firmware (02.05 SP2).  They contacted Rigol, and Rigol responded with:
 >>> This is a known problem, and we will improve it in the new firmware.
 >>> Currently this new firmware has not been released and I am not sure the exact data.

I'm finding this bug especially annoying, and I've asked if they can downgrade the firmware for me to 02.04 SP1.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 21, 2011, 06:37:19 pm
@sean87

Did you buy from Batronix?  I just bought from them - and although the hack is likely possible, it would void your 3 year warranty - which sort of defeats the purpose of buying in the EU.

I'm actually in communication with them now about the flickering screen bug problem in the latest firmware (02.05 SP2).  They contacted Rigol, and Rigol responded with:
 >>> This is a known problem, and we will improve it in the new firmware.
 >>> Currently this new firmware has not been released and I am not sure the exact data.

I'm finding this bug especially annoying, and I've asked if they can downgrade the firmware for me to 02.04 SP1.

Yeah I bought mine also from there. On the second tough I wont try upgrading unless I really need to measure something that needs the extra bandwidth. I think they have 30 days return policy you didn't use it?

But for the hack...I saw in Dave's video that he completly undo the hack. It is possible right?? so how can they find it out?

Thanks for reply.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 21, 2011, 07:13:33 pm
Quote
I think they have 30 days return policy you didn't use it?

Well, I wrote them an email mentioning that I might return it (I still have about 2 weeks of the 30 days) if they can't find a fix for me.

Quote
.I saw in Dave's video that he completly undo the hack. It is possible right?? so how can they find it out?

Yes, supposedly the hack is undoable, as long as the electronics are functioning correctly - but if something goes wrong with the scope which makes it impossible to undo the hack, you've screwed the warranty - because they will see during servicing that the serial numbers are changed.

My plan was just to wait - at least one year or so into the warranty - before trying it.  I would also replace the fan with a low noise one at the same time.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: aXit on July 23, 2011, 10:59:13 pm
Has anyone tried the hack with a recent purchace? would be nice to know!

I bought one from dealextreme just last week (arrived in 8 days from order too). Successfully did the upgrade. I was careful with all the checksums, but apart from that, just followed the guide.

Mine came with 2.05 SP2, Hardware version 58.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on July 24, 2011, 12:07:37 am
Do you have the screen flicker issue?  Or the increase system noise issue?  See the thread of A Hellene about a 'nasty surprise' on his new Rigol.

Has anyone tried the hack with a recent purchace? would be nice to know!

I bought one from dealextreme just last week (arrived in 8 days from order too). Successfully did the upgrade. I was careful with all the checksums, but apart from that, just followed the guide.

Mine came with 2.05 SP2, Hardware version 58.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: aXit on July 24, 2011, 02:36:54 pm
I'm not sure what the screen flicker issue was, but maybe. Probably about 5-6 times in 3 hours of use, I saw the screen flash white for half a secound out of the corner of my eye. Never saw it while looking directly at it though. Haven't had the issue with the 2.04 SP2 yet, but that's only seen about half an hour's use so far.

No significant system noise, background noise is around 500uVpp when on 2mV range. Nothing like A Hellene. USB +5V noise is at ~94MHz 100mVpp.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jason695 on July 27, 2011, 03:27:52 am
hi everyone,

i have red quite a few of the discussions changing ds1052e to ds1102e.

i'd just like to ask please, has anyone actually tested the succesfully hacked ds1052e at around full banwidth frequencies. Actually test it at say, 100mhz and see what happens in non averaged mode. Has anyone provided a vid of testing at theses frequencies.

thnks,
henry.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 28, 2011, 02:10:48 am
Has anyone tried the hack with a recent purchace? would be nice to know!

I bought one from dealextreme just last week (arrived in 8 days from order too). Successfully did the upgrade. I was careful with all the checksums, but apart from that, just followed the guide.

Mine came with 2.05 SP2, Hardware version 58.

Hi, My scope came yesterday with firmware 2.05 SP2. It does not have flicker issue or I haven't notice it. How can I check for my hardware version? Can you please say which guide you did follow for the mod? would be nice if you can tell me the summary of the mod you did.

Thanks.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 28, 2011, 02:30:16 am
Quote
My scope came yesterday with firmware 2.05 SP2. It does not have flicker issue or I haven't notice it. How can I check for my hardware version? Can you please say which guide you did follow for the mod? would be nice if you can tell me the summary of the mod you did.

You see HW version by:Utility -> System Info -> Press CH1 twice -> Press CH2 twice -> Press MATH once.  Make sure you press RUN/STOP to leave screen.

Step-by step instructions for the mod on page 1 of this thread.

But before you hack, you might try this software from me to test for flicker.  I am returning my scope to Batronix and getting Hantek because they (and Rigol) do not fix this bug.

Download: http://www.turbidmedia.com/share/rrm_1_1.zip (http://www.turbidmedia.com/share/rrm_1_1.zip) - you need VISA driver (from here or Rigol website) and USB cable installed to run the software - make sure you have signals present on both channels (you can use calibration square wave) and that the scope is running (RUN/STOP green).

Then, in PC software, select ALL measurements (top check box) from both channels, put POLLING SPEED slider all the way to the left (fastest), then click RUN/STOP. On my scope, this causes the screen to flash very often. It demonstrates that this FW has a bad refresh problem.

From Rigol email:

"I just discussed this problem with R&D, this is resulted from the BUS
conflict, and can not be avoid.
But we will release a new firmware recently, which can improve it.
Thank you very much for your feedback, thank you!"

But this FW has already been out a long time.

I bought this scope from Batronix in order to avoid warranty issues - but if they can't deal with this - and I would have to downgrade the firmware myself, then I might as buy from China and save € 25 - 50.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 28, 2011, 03:07:18 am
Thanks marmad, I will check for flicker tonight and report back!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Lightages on July 28, 2011, 03:24:17 am
Mine came with HW58 and 2.05 sp2, and I did not notice any flickering in the 15 minutes I had it this way. I then downgraded, hacked to 1152-EDU and then back to 2.04 sp1. I used the scope this way for a while with no noticeable flickering. I then tried to use 2.05 sp2 and when doing certain things I would see flickering occasionally. The flickering is more than just an annoyance. If you are letting the scope run and waiting for a specific triggered event and it keeps flickering, you keep looking to see what has just happened. It became the "scope that cried WOLF" and I "downgraded" back to 20.4 sp1 and have not noticed any problems like this since.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 28, 2011, 03:39:26 am
Quote
The flickering is more than just an annoyance. If you are letting the scope run and waiting for a specific triggered event and it keeps flickering, you keep looking to see what has just happened. It became the "scope that cried WOLF" and I "downgraded" back to 20.4 sp1 and have not noticed any problems like this since.

Yes, this seems to be what everyone is reporting.  I could just downgrade the scope myself, but I paid extra to get it through a European dealer - so if I void the warranty immediately, what was the point for paying extra and not buying on eBay?  Just to make sure it wasn't DOA?

I really think Rigol should fix this problem fast - or at least offer a downgrade path for customers who buy through their authorized dealers.  But their response is:

 >> This is a known problem, and we will improve it in the new firmware.
 >> Currently this new firmware has not been released and I am not sure the exact data.

and

>> Currently, the DS1000E can not be downgraded. For this problem, I hope it
>> can be solved in the next firmware.

and

>> I just discussed this problem with R&D, this is resulted from the BUS
>> conflict, and can not be avoid.
>> But we will release a new firmware recently, which can improve it.
>> Thank you very much for your feedback, thank you!

Notice they use the word 'improve' - and not 'fix'.

So either:
a) They can't or don't want to release a simple downgrade firmware to resolve the issue.
b) There is a technical reason why previous FW versions should not be used.

In any case, I'm jumping ship to the Hantek or Owon.  You can currently get the Owon (100MHz - 1GSs - 10Mbit sample depth - 8" 800x600 display - quiet fan - optional battery pack - plus VGA output to monitor) for ~ € 80 more than what the Rigol DS1052E costs.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 28, 2011, 03:56:23 am
OK, I did what you asked, I noticed flickering like 5 times in 10 minutes in very random times. here is a video, just one flick I could capture. The first channel is connected to my own made square form generator, second channel is on scopes square generator.

rigol flickre (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFkIsWgK1wo#)

So do you think I also have your scopes problem and should consider going to that owon you mentioned?

Also how to have both channels triggred?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 28, 2011, 04:33:11 am
Quote
I noticed flickering like 5 times in 10 minutes in very random times.

That's not too bad - mine is even worse.

Quote
So do you think I also have your scopes problem and should consider going to that owon you mentioned?

Yes, you have the problem (I think everyone with FW 02.05 SP2 have it) but, as mentioned in other posts, if you are planning to hack right away, you can stay with FW 02.04 SP1 - which doesn't seem to have the problem.  For me, I bought the scope here in Europe because I wasn't planning to hack it right now (maybe after a year or so of warranty support) - so I don't really want to put up with the bug; as mentioned in Lightages post - it's more than annoying when waiting for signals.

As I started to read more about other scopes recently, I realized that the Rigol, as good a deal as it remains, is rather old (and overdriven - they overclock their ADCs) technology -- and I believe it's also possible that they might have recently started cutting corners slightly to make more money - since after the hack became published they are selling more and more DS1052Es and less DS1102Es - so they are making less scopes which have to fulfill the 100MHz bandwidth capability.

So I think I will spend € 70 - 100 more and get something with better specs than a hacked 100MHz Rigol - and with newer technology (bigger screens, more memory depth, etc.)  But it all comes down to budget, eh?  ;)

Quote
Also how to have both channels triggred?

Trigger Menu -> Mode -> Alternate
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jason695 on July 28, 2011, 05:28:17 am
hi everyone,

just aking some general questions around the 50 to 100 mhz conversion.

does anyone know where to get the 2.02, 204 & 2.05 firmware. rigol do have it on their site now.


so is it right that latest hadrware is 58 & firmare is now ver 3. with these its now absolutely impossible to do the mod?

any replies thanks.
jase
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on July 28, 2011, 06:55:32 am
hi everyone,

just aking some general questions around the 50 to 100 mhz conversion.

does anyone know where to get the 2.02, 204 & 2.05 firmware. rigol do have it on their site now.
http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip (http://All the files you need zipped into one)

Quote
so is it right that latest hadrware is 58 & firmare is now ver 3. with these its now absolutely impossible to do the mod?

Whoa! You have a version 3??? I don't think I've seen anyone with that yet. Can you verify the full version string by pressing "ch1" twice, then "ch2" twice then "math" once from the system info screen please?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 28, 2011, 09:27:55 am
I have been scratching my head since yesterday. I could not find a proper guide to do the hack for "2.05 SP2" and HW version 58. In the first page there is no section for 2.05 SP2, would be nice if somone have done mod for this firmware make a small summary here.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 28, 2011, 09:37:20 am
@sean87

All of the tools for the hack are in this link - in well-marked folders:

http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip (http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip)

You just follow the instructions on page 1 of this thread; basically:  downgrade to FW 02.02 - change serial number with Shafri's tool - then upgrade back to FW 02.04 or FW 02.05 - then re-calibrate.  Just make sure you doublecheck your cable connections and verify checksums on copied firmware files before you put them in the Rigol - you don't want an expensive brick.

It's all spelled-out pretty well on page 1.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 28, 2011, 09:09:45 pm
@sean87

All of the tools for the hack are in this link - in well-marked folders:

http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip (http://picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip)

You just follow the instructions on page 1 of this thread; basically:  downgrade to FW 02.02 - change serial number with Shafri's tool - then upgrade back to FW 02.04 or FW 02.05 - then re-calibrate.  Just make sure you doublecheck your cable connections and verify checksums on copied firmware files before you put them in the Rigol - you don't want an expensive brick.

It's all spelled-out pretty well on page 1.

Thanks, I am almost ready to take the risk :D I think it is maddness but yeah I am going to do it!

So can you confirm the following steps? (Well if my scope turned to a brick I will not blame anyone!)
- I have to downgrade using the file in this folder "Downgrade_2.05SP2_to_2.02SP2"
- I use the sharfi's tool and hit the upgrade button
- I upgrade back to 02.05 SP2 again (this is my current firmware which scope came with)
- I recalibrate the scope
- I will be happy or mad :P
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 28, 2011, 09:45:23 pm
Quote
So can you confirm the following steps?

Yep, those are the steps.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on July 28, 2011, 09:46:18 pm
First, before anything else, install the visa runtime, reboot the computer if necessary and make sure your scope can talk to your computer using Ultrascope (came with your scope on the CD or get it here: http://www.picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/Ultrascope_for_DS1000E_Series.exe (http://www.picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/Ultrascope_for_DS1000E_Series.exe) ). Once you have done this, you can disconnect the scope, reboot it, and proceed.

Also, check the MD5 hash of each file on the memory stick each and every time you copy the next firmware version to the stick. Never have more than one firmware file on the stick at any one time.

You can reinstall 2.05 SP2 if that's what you really want. However, it appears that 2.05 SP2 may cause or aggravate the screen flicker issue. There is no known benefit to 2.05 SP2 over 2.04 SP1. AFAIK, the only reason Rigol released firmware after 2.04 SP1 was to try and defeat this hack, and they introduced a new bug in the process. I personally (and many others) find 2.04 SP1 to be the best version available (unless jason695 really does have a version 3 -- I don't know what they may have done there!!)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 28, 2011, 10:06:33 pm
Quote
First, before anything else, install the visa runtime

He has VISA driver installed - as evidenced by him running my software in video above - which needs the driver.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on July 29, 2011, 12:43:03 am
First, before anything else, install the visa runtime, reboot the computer if necessary and make sure your scope can talk to your computer using Ultrascope
using "sharfi tool" you can press the "check rigol model & serial" button. if the textbox next to it showing some usefull info without error or terminated, then its a simple indication you have visa installed correctly.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jason695 on July 29, 2011, 06:10:47 am
hi ppl,

sorry i cant reply sooner.

firstly, i dont actually have a scope at all yet. i,ve just read around an have seen somone mention a version 3 firmware with hardware ver 58 i think.

Sean please dont damage your scope. i wouldnt like to think i've encouraged anyone to do wrong thing, Its very exiting i know but, you've only just bought it remember.

i looked at dave jones breakdown of the 1052e, where he takes back off. please knowone try this LOL, mr jones obviously got lots of experience. anyway, he seems to have nothing but, praise for its quality.


Sean, did you get it from batronix i was thinking of buying there also, it looks a fine item for price.

regds
jason










Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: jason695 on July 29, 2011, 06:27:17 am
hi again,


marmad,

just on thing i noticed. you said you might buy a newer scope than rigol 1052e.

which were you thinking of?

jason
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 29, 2011, 06:34:37 am
Hi,

I was looking for my memory stick and no success finding it yet! ahha myabe it is a sign that I shouldn't do the mod. butneverthless I am gonna try it. I almost modded everyhting I bought so this one should also be considered. I will report back later.

But if MARMAD can find a ncie deal for the OWON scope maybe I just send back my RIGOL and get that one too.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 29, 2011, 06:40:06 am
Yeah I got mine from batronix. They are a pretty nice seller and offer 30 day return policy + free sheeping within EU
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: marmad on July 29, 2011, 09:21:09 am
@jason695 and sean87

I was thinking of either the Hantek DSO5102B or the Owon SDS7102.

The Hantek is 100MHz, 1GSa/s, 1Mpts, 7" screen (800x480) - with a current cost of ~ € 390 (excl. VAT) from China.

Pros for the Hantek include:  it can be hacked to 200MHz  - good build quality - and good support on this blog (the scope has been basically torn apart by Tinhead - who figured out how to hack it to 200MHz - and has even reverse engineered it and released schematics for it).

Cons include: I can't seem to find it in Europe for a reasonably similar price - so I would have to buy it from China (which just means a big expense and long delays if you have problems under warranty) - plus Hantek is even less responsive to customers than Rigol.

The Owon is 100MHz, 1GSa/s, 10Mpts, 8" screen (800x600) - with a current cost of ~ € 360 (excl. VAT) from China.

Pros include: Brand new design: super thin - best specs (on paper) - 10Mpts! can do super-long data logging - huge TFT screen, as well as VGA output so that you can view the scope screen on a standard monitor (a great idea) - has a battery compartment for optional lithium battery (~ € 60) so it can be used as a portable (another great idea) - true USB 2.0 support (this is a big deal when you try to get real time data from the scope while running - the Rigol has only USB 1.1 and it is painfully slow).

Cons include: Brand new design: hardly anyone has one and it's almost impossible to find info about it - some of Owon's products in the past have had dubious build quality, although Saelig and other reputable companies continue to carry their products.

So it comes down to going for something which is known to be reliable and good quality - or opting to be an early adopter for an unknown design, build quality, and firmware - wrapped up in a bunch of good ideas and an innovative package for a low-cost scope.

I was leaning towards the Hantek, but I think I've found a great price here in Europe (with full 3 year warranty) for the Owon - so...  :o ...tomorrow I will order one or the other.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 29, 2011, 10:32:43 am
Damn those specs justs tempts me to steal LeCroy WaveRunner 6050 from my company and replace it with my own RIGOL ...just hope no one will notice the difference!  8)

Hope you will find a nice price and place to buy either of scopes you mentioned! good luck! (Although I guess you find that OWON from batronix)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: sean87 on July 30, 2011, 04:33:26 am
I couldn't stop myself and I finally did the hack. Luckly everything went smoothly and I guess I also have a 100MHz scope :P

I did the steps I mentioned in the pervious page and finally decided to go with 2.04 SP1 firmware. Then I did a calibration and now everything seems to work fine. I also tried the MARMAD software to check for flickering and there was no flicker at all.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: xO on August 05, 2011, 07:13:45 am
A number of tests posted earlier in this thread focused mostly on the rise time of upgraded Rigols. Here are some results for the probes that ship with the scope. Both scopes and probes listed are rated at 100 MHz.

RISE TIME (AT MAX SAMPLING RATE):
Rigol (with Rigol probes): 4.5 ns
Rigol (with Tektronix probes): 2.8 ns
Tektronix (with Tektronix probes): 2.9 ns
Tektronix (with Rigol probes): 3.5 ns

Rise time of upgraded Rigols seems to be on par with other 100 MHz DSOs. However, Rigol probes may not be. It's worth noting that the Tek probes (P6109B) have both low and hi frequency compensation adjustments, while the Rigol probes (RP2200) have only a low.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: rtp_burnsville on August 06, 2011, 07:20:47 am
Hi,

I just received my DS1052E last night......   I will likely attempt this after I spend some time seeing if the scope is working as it should. 

My version is: 00.02.05 SP2
hardware: 58

Ok, back to reading the rest of this thread.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: moon7 on August 11, 2011, 08:40:05 am
Hello, can who check sequence of step:
I have DS1052E, SN - DS1ED132709252, SW – 00.02.05.02.00, HW – 58
Then
1 - Check  USB Flash (save picture) – OK
2 - Write to flash FW from A Helene  2.05.02.00 to 2.02.02.00 DS1000E series firmware.zip whith MD5 f7c861576fe9efeaf08c3e449f3527f0  CRC  0c2ce1e8
3 - Insert flash and downgrade
4 - Reboot OSC.
5 - Install VISA, Ultrascope reboot CPU and connect OSC. To PC
6 - Run rigupgr.exe – check – update – reboot OSC.
7 - Write to flash FW 00.02.04.01.02 whith MD5 bcf73565352391935f3a9651d30776ee CRC  3b44dee5
8 - Reboot  and calibrate OSC.

And how chance that OSC will be worked in this case. Can I connect OSC to PC – Ultrascope before downgrade? Is this not influence to downgrade?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: moon7 on August 11, 2011, 06:31:27 pm
(http://uaimage.com/t/1317433_22384441.jpg) (http://uaimage.com/image/22384441) update done :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on August 11, 2011, 10:50:59 pm
Congratulations! Welcome to the club. I suggest you edit your first post and picture to obscure the serial number. There is no point in advertising that in case you need to set it back and return the unit for warranty repair.  ;)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: moon7 on August 11, 2011, 11:05:48 pm
Thank! But I replace cooler, no noise no warranty :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on August 11, 2011, 11:25:09 pm
no noise no warranty :)

Where's the GIF for <roflmao>???

(Rolling On the Floor, Laughing My A$$ Off for those of you youngsters that are too young to remember the text-only internet)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: odessa on August 13, 2011, 12:37:06 am
Ace guide guys. Just succeeded in upgrading to 100Mhz  :)

Thanks very much !!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Neuport on September 07, 2011, 04:11:29 pm
Thanks!  Received scope today, debated with myself about upgrade.  Decided to give it a shot and 20 minutes later success.  This was one of the easiest/best documented hacks I've seen.  Well done.  Of course I don't have the knowledge to test the performance to see if it matters.  : ^ )
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: haltandcatchfire on September 22, 2011, 02:49:43 pm
Hi all! Just reporting another successful hack. Ordered mine from DealExcel (not DealExtreme) for $350 USD and got it 4 days later shipped to Oregon, USA. It was packed well with no damage. It arrived with FW ver. 00.02.05.02.00, HW ver. 58.

The hack went quickly and smoothly, thanks to this incredibly clear guide! Now I think I'll have to make a pulse generator to really prove that I doubled my bandwidth so easily...I guess once in a while there is such thing as a free lunch ;D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Rainmaker on September 23, 2011, 03:21:44 am
Hi all! Why can not I download the file 2.05.02.01.header.zip from this site? I get a message "You are not allowed to access this section".
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yanir on September 27, 2011, 12:31:37 am
I don't even see the link to download the  2.05.02.01.header.zip or the rom. I am I missing something? Which post has this available for download?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Dexter on October 01, 2011, 02:07:33 am
Same problem here, i always get "You are not allowed to access this section". What im doing wrong?

Best regards
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mixsall on October 01, 2011, 02:16:44 am
```
~ ~ 
I can't download.I come form china,my english is so bad.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: pudrik on October 01, 2011, 04:21:35 am
Have anyone managed to downgrade 2.06 yet?

Ive managed to patch a 2.02 firmware file to be detected as a 2.06 but since i dont have a raw dump of my flash yet i dont want to try and cause a corrupt firmware only minutes after unpacking :S
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dumitru-a on October 08, 2011, 11:53:56 pm
Thanks a lot now because of this forum have made ds1052e 2.05 SP2, 2.04 SP1 in ds1102 congratulations again to all who made this possible!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gyurma on October 09, 2011, 10:54:22 am
Thanks for the great tutorial and the help of the repliers!
Because I did not find any downgrade file for the 02.05.SP2 scopes, I just edited a file for the older fw versions and checked it to the md5 sums.
It worked. 'Till now i dont see any problem with the firmware either.  02.04.SP1 is OK.
I made a package for newcommers. Feel free to use it...
https://rapidshare.com/files/1870851383/rigol_upgrade_tools_for_DS1052E_02.05.SP2.zip
Read the instructions and also the Blog before using it!!!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Kozmyk on October 10, 2011, 03:52:53 am
Thanks for the great tutorial and the help of the repliers!
Because I did not find any downgrade file for the 02.05.SP2 scopes, I just edited a file for the older fw versions and checked it to the md5 sums.
It worked. 'Till now I don't see any problem with the firmware either.  02.04.SP1 is OK.
I made a package for newcomers. Feel free to use it...
https://rapidshare.com/files/1870851383/rigol_upgrade_tools_for_DS1052E_02.05.SP2.zip (https://rapidshare.com/files/1870851383/rigol_upgrade_tools_for_DS1052E_02.05.SP2.zip)
Read the instructions and also the Blog before using it!!!
Nice one gyurma I've just used your pack to upgrade mine. Success!!  :)
I was finding the separation of the research from the results in earlier 02.05.SP2 posts a bit confusing.
Not that they weren't interesting but with a head full of flu I was thankful of an easier approach.

Thanks to you and all those researchers who have gone before my RIGOL is now sorted.  8)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yanir on October 11, 2011, 12:42:16 am
Thanks gyurma! It worked for me too.

FYI, the first flash drive I tried using wouldn't work. I could create folders on it using the rigol disk manager but I couldn't save waveform data. The roms were never recognized either (thankfully, potentially could have bricked the scope.) So a word of caution, verify that waveforms can be saved to your flash drive.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: big t on October 11, 2011, 07:58:19 am
Hi,

I couldn't save waveform to flash disk with 2.04 SP1 software too. So I did upgrade to 02.05 SP2 and saving of waveform works for me.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on October 11, 2011, 09:37:22 pm
Interesting. That's the first time I've heard of an benefit of 2.05. Did you try any other brands or sizes of memory? What size and brand are you using?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: big t on October 11, 2011, 11:15:49 pm
Hi,

I used SanDisk Cruzer 2GB flash drive, the same flash drive with 2.04 and 2.05 fw versions.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Kozmyk on October 12, 2011, 04:18:56 am
My newly upgraded DS1052E_to_DS1102E 02.04.SP1 (formerly on 02.05.02.00) is happily saving Waveforms and Recordings to USB Flash.
Kingston DT101 G2 - 8GB (Fat32)

One thing I note with the recordings is that changes in the timebase readings aren't recorded or the measurements, just the waveform itself.
Not the end of the world but curious all the same.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: pen_tium on October 14, 2011, 01:08:24 am
 :).........................
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: pen_tium on October 14, 2011, 01:56:37 pm
How can I chang the DS1102E 02.05 SP2 return to DS1052E 02.02 SP2?  :-[
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mr-400-Volt on October 26, 2011, 05:50:15 am
Hi, i have done the Patch, and upgrade to the 2.05.02 original FW. So my screen is flickering. Can i downgreade again, and then to the FW 2.02.01 (bugfree)?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gmdavies on November 01, 2011, 08:14:43 am
Have anyone managed to downgrade 2.06 yet? Ive managed to patch a 2.02 firmware file to be detected as a 2.06 but since i dont have a raw dump of my flash yet i dont want to try and cause a corrupt firmware only minutes after unpacking :S

I really would like to know how to do downgrade from 2.06 to 2.02 firmware as I have several scopes to hack. What did you do to patch the 2.2 file (or did you simply copy the header over, which of course shows the same upgrade screen but I guess won't actually work)? Well, if anyone has found how to do this, please tell.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on November 01, 2011, 10:54:24 am
A. Hellene cracked the header code in this post: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404)

Theoretically, the same approach can be used to modify the 2.06 header
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: amspire on November 01, 2011, 10:56:09 am
I still haven't heard of anyone downgrading the 2.06 firmware. As far as I know, no-one has even posted a copy of the 2.06 firmware anywhere yet.

I did come across someone who has written a dissembler for the Rigol DS1052E Blackfin processor, in case anyone wants to start poking around:

http://codenaschen.de/tichyblog/?action=blog&entry=1_Blackfin%20Disassembler%20Processor%20IDA%20Pro%20Plugin (http://codenaschen.de/tichyblog/?action=blog&entry=1_Blackfin%20Disassembler%20Processor%20IDA%20Pro%20Plugin)
https://github.com/krater/Blackfin-IDA-Pro-Plugin (https://github.com/krater/Blackfin-IDA-Pro-Plugin)

It includes the sourcecode for the Rigol firmware file loader.

On a different note, Screen flicker has been one of the problem some people have with their Rigol DS1052E series.  It has been blamed on firmware, but could it just be a bad connector?

http://the1.eyeit.org/index.php/2011/06/30/rigol-ds1052e-02-05-02 (http://the1.eyeit.org/index.php/2011/06/30/rigol-ds1052e-02-05-02)

Richard
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Lightages on November 01, 2011, 11:30:49 am
I have a DS1052E  HW58 modified for 150Mhz, and was using 2.04.01 as suggested. It never flickered. As soon as I tried 2.05 it would flicker and more depending on math and more intensive CPU loads. Going back to 2.04.01 removed the flicker again.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: vtl on November 01, 2011, 04:06:37 pm
Has anyone got a link to download 2.06 firmware for the DS1052e/1102e?
Title: Hacking the latest firmware, which currently is v2.06 SP0 (2.06.00.01).
Post by: A Hellene on November 02, 2011, 12:38:26 am
Alright, my fellow EEVBloggers!

I would be happy to post the new hacked firmware that downgrades every FW revision up to v2.06 SP0 included, down to v2.02 SP2 along with the original FW v2.06 SP0 (2.06.00.01).
But, given that all the "illegal" firmware attachments were removed from this blog at some point, makes obvious that posting the FW files above puts the blog at risk.

Let's review some facts:
I still haven't heard of anyone downgrading the 2.06 firmware. As far as I know, no-one has even posted a copy of the 2.06 firmware anywhere yet.
Well, I have done it, Richard! And reverted back to v2.04 SP1.
Drieg led the way, providing us with some valuable information:
...don't waste your time, seems that Rigol made a stupid mistake and forgot to prevent a FW "upgrade" to the same version  ;)

Besides that, I didn't notice any difference between v2.5 and v2.6, at least the menu is very same.
The fact that v2.06 can "upgrade" itself is the key!

A. Hellene cracked the header code in this post: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404)

Theoretically, the same approach can be used to modify the 2.06 header
Exactly, Torch! The method remains the same.
Recently, I posted the header of FW v2.06 SP0 (2.06.00.01) along with other ones at this message (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4715.msg62882#msg62882):
Code: [Select]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
HEX Address: 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 10 11 12 13 14
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
v2.05.01.00: 44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 82 85 84 88 C3 7B 47 92 39 C8 7E
v2.05.01.02: 44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 82 85 84 82 8B B8 96 41 63 FF 33
v2.05.02.00: 44 53 31 30 30 30 45 20 20 20 82 85 82 88 C0 7E D7 6A 15 B6 B6
v2.06.00.01: 4A E3 3E 5E 1C EA 8D 39 9A 23 82 86 88 84 02 8C E9 A6 50 D0 BC
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


The steps to take are the following:

1. Find the original v2.02 SP2 (v2.02.02.00).
Original v2.02 SP2 file CRC32 checksum: A3370F0E
Original v2.02 SP2 file MD5 hash: 272086B2037231C62446617436544A77

2. Open it with a hex editor and replace the first 21 bytes of the header with the 21 bytes of the v2.06 SP0 (2.06.00.01) header, posted above.

3. Save the new file, which is recognised by the DS1000E as v2.06 (2.06.00.01) but it actually is v2.02 SP2 (2.02.02.00) and can change the model and the serial number of the device.
Hacked v2.02 SP2 file CRC32 checksum: 0C83CBD6
Hacked v2.02 SP2 file MD5 hash: 19EB82AB1FA4FE57CC9410F2074E9E67

Note that changing only the model will not work after a reboot. In order to save the model permanently it will also be needed to re-enter the serial number. Enter the serial number the device will return after the ":INFO:SERIAL?" command, or as it is displayed in the sticker at the back of the device; there is no need to change the model letter (D/B/F) within.

4. Change your device's model & serial number and upgrade your firmware to v2.04 SP1 (2.04.01.02), or higher, immediately!
DO NOT operate any further (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1379.msg18086#msg18086) the HW58 devices with the hacked firmware or with any other firmware of a revision lower to v2.04 SP1.
Try also to avoid all the v2.05 revisions that introduced flickering or other bugs.

5. Done! Enjoy your crime! :P


P.S. The files mentioned above can be found online. So, please, do not start asking me to be sending or emailing them individually...

[EDIT]: All the files needed can be found here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70378#msg70378) and here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70381#msg70381).




Something different, now:
[...]
I did come across someone who has written a dissembler for the Rigol DS1052E Blackfin processor, in case anyone wants to start poking around:

http://codenaschen.de/tichyblog/?action=blog&entry=1_Blackfin%20Disassembler%20Processor%20IDA%20Pro%20Plugin (http://codenaschen.de/tichyblog/?action=blog&entry=1_Blackfin%20Disassembler%20Processor%20IDA%20Pro%20Plugin)
https://github.com/krater/Blackfin-IDA-Pro-Plugin (https://github.com/krater/Blackfin-IDA-Pro-Plugin)

It includes the sourcecode for the Rigol firmware file loader.
[...]

Richard
Ah, this is a very nice finding! Thank you, Richard.

I do not know what the main plug-in is able to do. There are listed a few bugs at the included README file, though.

Having spent some time on the BlackFin documentation, this is what I've quickly found in the rigol_ldr.h:
Code: [Select]
struct rgl_hdr {
uchar name[10];
uchar version[4];
uchar dummy1[2];
uint32 crc32;
uchar dummy2;
};

struct ldr_hdr {
uint32   addr;
uint32   size;
uint16   flags;
};

Well, according to the BlackFin "Loader and Utilities Manual" rev. 2.2, page 3-5:
"The boot ROM evaluates the first byte of the boot stream at address 0x2000 0000.
If it is 0x40, eight-bit boot is performed.
A 0x60 byte assumes a 16-bit memory device and performs eight-bit DMA.
A 0x20 byte also assumes 16-bit memory but performs 16-bit DMA.".


Since there is such an entry (with a value equal to 0x60) at all the .RGL firmware upgrade files (right after the 21-byte revision header and before the 10-byte bootloader header) I think that the source file above should rather read something in the lines of:
Code: [Select]
struct rgl_hdr {
uchar name[10];
uchar version[4];
uchar dummy1[2];
uint32 crc32;
uchar dummy2;
};

struct ldr_hdr {
uint16   bmode;
uint32   addr;
uint32   size;
uint16   flags;
};

[EDIT] I was wrong (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg71577#msg71577): Actually, the first boot Byte in the ldr_hdr (the 0x60 one in the DS1000 firmware upgrade files case) is the LSB of the first firmware file dword after the 21 bytes version header. [/EDIT]

I am also not sure how dummy the dummyX entries are...
Yet, I welcome and applaud any such efforts!


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Lightages on November 02, 2011, 12:54:13 am
I again applaud the efforts here to keep the DS1052E hacks working!

I have a question. Is 2.06 bug free? Free of the any of the bugs in 2.04.01?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: amspire on November 02, 2011, 01:06:29 am
That is an amazing piece of work from George (A Hellene).

Brilliant!

Thanks for pulling together so much information from previous posts into one great tutorial.


Richard
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 02, 2011, 01:46:12 am
You are welcome, gentlemen!


I have a question. Is 2.06 bug free? Free of the any of the bugs in 2.04.01?
I cannot answer this question because when I resoldered the FPGA back (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.msg62495#msg62495) on my board I did not extensively test FW v2.06, since the reference data I have in my hands were collected using the firmware v2.04 SP1; neither my device's noise problem was fixed, in order to start anew.

After a while, discovering a few mistakes in the PCB wiring diagrams I drew, I removed the FPGA once more to correct them and resoldered the FPGA back; but it seems that I did not align the chip properly and I mangled my calibration data... So, I started studying the DSP processor, since this guy's family is a total stranger to me; this is the reason why I immediately recognised the mistake in the BlackFin bootloader, above.

But, the worst part is that my spare time is very very limited these days, in order to make any further progress...


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Lightages on November 02, 2011, 01:59:38 am
Would it be possible for you to link to the latest schematics that you have drawn?

Thank you

Les
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 02, 2011, 02:45:36 am
Of course I will, Les. I will post them at the same location (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.msg55197#msg55197) I have already have the analog schematics posted when I will have them drawn, since what I have in my hands right now cannot be called schematics; it is plain text files describing the PCB components interconnections data.

By the way, I have already posted a quick preview of the DS1000X design at the link in my very previous message, above.


-George
Title: Re: Hacking the latest firmware, which currently is v2.06 SP0 (2.06.00.01).
Post by: EEVblog on November 02, 2011, 09:03:52 am
I would be happy to post the new hacked firmware that downgrades every FW revision up to v2.06 SP0 included, down to v2.02 SP2 along with the original FW v2.06 SP0 (2.06.00.01).
But, given that all the "illegal" firmware attachments were removed from this blog at some point, makes obvious that posting the FW files above puts the blog at risk.

Correct.
Please do not attach any copyrighted firmware files on this forum, they will be removed.
However, no one will stop you from posting a URL to somewhere else  ;)

Dave.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 02, 2011, 10:26:07 am
Fair enough, Dave.

This is an archive (http://www.mediafire.com/?89qmofj54tgw7ak) containing a few useful files:
- Firmware v2.02 SP2 (2.02.02.00)
- Firmware v2.04 SP1 (2.04.01.02)
- Firmware v2.06 SP0 (2.06.00.01)
- Firmware 2.06.00.01 to 2.02.02.00 downgrade
- DemoIDN USB tool

Since it is unknown if and when the file will be removed, you are strongly encouraged to download it and mirror it on your servers.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: amspire on November 02, 2011, 11:00:39 am
George,

Is the firmware the same for the DS1052e and the hacked 100MHz version? So after converting can we load firmware 2.06?

Also after converting and upgrading, can we use the same hacked 2.02 firmware to allow us to go back to an earlier firmware, or to revert to a 50MHz scope?

Are these firmware for particular hardware builds?

Thanks for the files.

Richard
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on November 02, 2011, 11:20:04 am
Interesting thing, copyright. Under Canadian law (which conforms to the international Berne Convention treaty) copyright subsists in any work, whether or not it is explicitly declared. Now, "What is a 'work'?" you might well ask. The definition is very broad, so it's easier to define what is not a work. And in that short list we find that a set of instructions for the operation, maintenance or service of a product supplied by a manufacturer of that product is NOT a work.

It doesn't matter whether the instructions are printed or filmed or electronic.

So, I keep a backup copy of the latest electronic on-board help files supplied by the manufacturer of my scope in this secure off-site location (http://www.picturehosting.verhey.org/rigol/DS1052Eupgr_tools.zip), without any worry that it will be "taken down" by someone who is not familiar with copyright law. I understand that laws in other lands may be slightly different, so I urge any foreign readers to check before following either my link or my example. The MD5 hash is 5c8bba8e8d5237e890a2348a0069ebe8
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 02, 2011, 11:40:42 am
Richard,

The firmware is the same for all the DS1000E products: The 50 MHz DS1052E, the 100 MHz DS1102E and the 150 MHz DS1152E, therefore, if you wish, you can aim higher than the 100 MHz model in order to unlock the full potential of your device. Remember that the DS1000E hardware can go up to 170 MHz; the top frequency filtering is purely digital.

The whole idea is to downgrade to the v2.02 FW because it is one of the last revisions that can execute the specific commands which can change the device model and serial number. So, loading the v2.02 you can always instruct your device what model it will become; you can go either upwards or downwards.

As for the hardware revisions, let me quote Drieg:
Here's the table which FW supports which HW. Higher FW supports all older HW versions.
HW version    FW version
58
00.02.04.01.00
57
00.02.04.00.03
07
00.02.02.02.00
__________


torch,

This was a very interesting piece of information.
Thank you.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: amspire on November 02, 2011, 12:08:22 pm
So is 2.06.00.01 only for HW 59 or does it work on HW58 as well?

Richard

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 02, 2011, 12:24:13 pm
Yes, Richard, the HW58 devices can safely run any firmware revision from v2.04 SP1 (2.04.01.02) up to v2.06 (2.06.00.01), which currently is the latest official one.

I am not sure though if the so-called HW59 really exists...


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: vtl on November 02, 2011, 02:14:08 pm
Just upgraded my scope to 2.06, big mistake! Now got a ton of noise even when the probe is grounded. Reverted to 2.05 SP2, noise still there. LCD flickers gone but I'd rather have a flickering LCD than a noisy scope. Self cal did nothing.

Seems to have the same noise as described in the other thread:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.0 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.0)

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 02, 2011, 02:43:54 pm
I am very sorry to read that, vtl.

Your link points to the noise problem my device has. The difference with my oscilloscope is that it was shipped with that noise levels. It did have that noise as a DS1052E model since it was unpacked, even before its firmware was updated... Updating the firmware did not fix the noise problem nor made it worse because in my case the excessive noise problem seems to be hardware related.

You can contact Drieg (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1379.msg18086#msg18086) and describe your problem in detail to him before doing anything else that might make things worse.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on November 02, 2011, 02:56:33 pm
Just upgraded my scope to 2.06, big mistake! Now got a ton of noise even when the probe is grounded. Reverted to 2.05 SP2, noise still there. LCD flickers gone but I'd rather have a flickering LCD than a noisy scope. Self cal did nothing.

I would be very suspicious of a component failure coincidental to the FW upgrade, since the downgrade failed to reverse it. Pending better advice, I'd consider restoring all settings & F/W to original and returning it under warranty.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: amspire on November 02, 2011, 03:22:37 pm
I am assuming you did a self cal at 2.06 and again with 2.05 Sp2.

I was thinking of upgrading myself, but now, I might just wait a bit.  :) 

Yup - I am a coward.

Can I ask some questions?

Did the self cal with 2.06 change anything at all?

Is the noise only at low voltage input, or is it on high voltage ranges as well?

Does the noise look different with both channels on?

If you force the scope to sample at a lower speed by, say, changing to 10mS per div with extended memory off , is the noise the same but at a lower frequency?

One of the things I am wondering is if the A/D calibration offsets for the A/D's wanders away from zero to the point where it is no longer possible to correct, or even worse, roll over changing the sign of the correction. This could happen if they use a very crude algorithm in the A/D offset autocal routine and it gets easily confused. If it was something like this, then somehow resetting the A/D offset cal nos and then doing a new auto cal could solve the problem.

Richard
Here is what I am wondering.

One of the main tasks of the self cal is to balance the readings of the 8 A/D's
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: vtl on November 02, 2011, 05:07:09 pm
Self cal'ed at every point and made no difference.

I've attached some waveforms. The most significant thing is when the probe is grounded I get a lot of high frequency noise. Same thing on channel 2, doesn't make a difference between 1x and 10x of course.

Hopefully a fix for this, the scope is of course still usable but it seems I have just managed to make it worse than it was to begin with  :(
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on November 02, 2011, 11:13:58 pm
I have a question for those who have "upgraded" to 2.06: Why?

2.04SP1 has been the weapon of choice for some time now due to bugs in 2.05. The one single advantage of 2.05 that I am aware of is that one person reported it would read a USB memory stick that 2.04 would not recognize (all earlier FW seemed to have problems with certain memory sticks, but not others).

It appears that upgrading to 2.06 fixes the 2.05 screen flicker issue, just as downgrading to 2.04SP1 does. Are there any known advantages of 2.06 over 2.04SP1?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: amspire on November 03, 2011, 12:47:03 am
I think A Hellene is right in his earlier post. It  is probably best to contact Drieg.  He has some magical mystical way to return oscilloscope back to a state that allows the calibration to fully work.

I suppose in the Storage menu, you could try the "Factory" option and then recalibrate. but it is a long shot.

Since it is only at low signal levels, it does not look like it is anything to do with the DAC Calibrate.

It is probably worth putting the scope in equivalent sampling mode, and a fast timebase so you can have a good look at the actual noise waveform. Is it noise, or is it a consistent waveform at a 100MHz+ frequency?

Richard.
Title: Re: Hacking the latest firmware, which currently is v2.06 SP0 (2.06.00.01).
Post by: krater on November 03, 2011, 01:01:22 am

Ah, this is a very nice finding! Thank you, Richard.

I do not know what the main plug-in is able to do. There are listed a few bugs at the included README file, though.

Having spent some time on the BlackFin documentation, this is what I've quickly found in the rigol_ldr.h:
Code: [Select]
struct rgl_hdr {
uchar name[10];
uchar version[4];
uchar dummy1[2];
uint32 crc32;
uchar dummy2;
};

struct ldr_hdr {
uint32   addr;
uint32   size;
uint16   flags;
};

Well, according to the BlackFin "Loader and Utilities Manual" rev. 2.2, page 3-5:
"The boot ROM evaluates the first byte of the boot stream at address 0x2000 0000.
If it is 0x40, eight-bit boot is performed.
A 0x60 byte assumes a 16-bit memory device and performs eight-bit DMA.
A 0x20 byte also assumes 16-bit memory but performs 16-bit DMA.".


Since there is such an entry (with a value equal to 0x60) at all the .RGL firmware upgrade files (right after the 21-byte revision header and before the 10-byte bootloader header) I think that the source file above should rather read something in the lines of:
Code: [Select]
struct rgl_hdr {
uchar name[10];
uchar version[4];
uchar dummy1[2];
uint32 crc32;
uchar dummy2;
};

struct ldr_hdr {
uint16   bmode;
uint32   addr;
uint32   size;
uint16   flags;
};

I am also not sure how dummy the dummyX entries are...
Yet, I welcome and applaud any such efforts!


-George


hi,

i'm working on a programming toolchain to write and execute own code on the rigol scope. I'm the autor of the ida plugin too.
At the moment i can say that everytime you start the scope, at least a big part of the firmware is written to ram and executed from there. So maybee the firmware-image in rom is like you upload it to the scope but the executed firmware-image looks like that what comes out of the plugin-loader. I don't know if the header-formats comes from blackfin or rigol, but i think it's from rigol.

Maybee you want to see some of my efforts...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXvhq6YqQK0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXvhq6YqQK0#)]Very first Rigol DS1052E Homebrew

cheers,
krater


update:
here my blog entry to the video
http://codenaschen.de/tichyblog/index.php?action=blog&entry=7_Very+First+Rigol+DS1052+Oscilloscope+Homebrew (http://codenaschen.de/tichyblog/index.php?action=blog&entry=7_Very+First+Rigol+DS1052+Oscilloscope+Homebrew)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on November 03, 2011, 02:00:50 am
 ;D  "Hello World"

CLASSIC!

It will be fun to follow your progress on this. I wonder if you will be able to teach it some new tricks.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gmdavies on November 03, 2011, 07:46:03 am
I have a question for those who have "upgraded" to 2.06: Why?

First, thanks to everyone who has helped a poor stranger with 2.06 to upgrade to 100MHz. All your efforts are much appreciated.

The answer to Torch's question for me anyway is simply that the scope was delivered with 2.06 so it makes sense (to me) to go back to it, before messing with calibrations etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's nice not to have any flicker and latest firmware with latest hardware ought to be the right thing to do...

Anyway - thanks to all, particularly George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 04, 2011, 06:51:39 am
Nice work, Krater! Impressive! Thank you for sharing it, also!

Now, regarding the Blackfin, I may be wrong in my observations above because I am very new to this processor family. Since I had never have to work with it before, all I have is only a few hours on the documentation, in my limited spare time...

I also like the idea of the IDA plug-in; it might come in handy! Thanks, again!


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: krater on November 04, 2011, 08:03:35 am
Nice work, Krater! Impressive! Thank you for sharing it, also!

Now, regarding the Blackfin, I may be wrong in my observations above because I am very new to this processor family. Since I had never have to work with it before, all I have is only a few hours on the documentation, in my limited spare time...

I also like the idea of the IDA plug-in; it might come in handy! Thanks, again!


-George

Thanks for the good feedback :)
It's also my first work with a blackfin processor, but i found some code that could extract the RGL files like the RGL-Loader it does. I'm not really sure and there are other more interesting pieces of code to reverse engineer ;)


@vtl:
I have similaer noise when i ground my probes....but only when i use my scope near to my laptop/monitor. Thats maybee a normal behavior because the grounded probe is a coil that receives radio noise.
Try to switch off all electronic devices, try to use a short cable to ground the port. Do you notice a change in the noise level ?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Slasher006 on November 05, 2011, 04:31:24 am
Thanks Hellene!  8) Thank you very much for hacked v2.06   :)

Update and callibration done... works like a charm. No problems so far. And NO screen flickering  ;D

Greets from Germany
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: big t on November 05, 2011, 07:12:42 am
Hello,

I upgraded to v2.06, do the calibration, all seems work OK. Noticed that upper volts/div limit in v2.06 version is 100V as I remember in v2.05 version it was only 20V. Or am I wrong?

By the way, printing option with v2.06 works well with my USB storage disk, and haven't noticed any screen flickering.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on November 05, 2011, 08:30:40 am
The max. input voltage is the voltage guaranteed not to kill the scope, not necessarily the voltage that it can display. Maybe big t changed the probe settings from 1x to 10x on the scope, although then it should be a factor of 10 difference, not 5.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Slasher006 on November 05, 2011, 08:34:39 am
Sorry i deleted my post. I looked at the wrong spec.  :o I read input voltage... i think i need my eyes get checked.  :P
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: big t on November 06, 2011, 04:23:07 am
So please check volts/div max voltages who have scope with 2.04 or 2.05 versions.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Flavour Flave on November 06, 2011, 05:43:39 am
So please check volts/div max voltages who have scope with 2.04 or 2.05 versions.

I've got rev 2.04 and with probe set to 1X , the vert can be set from 2mV to 10V and set to X10 vert is 20mV to 100V....etc
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: big t on November 06, 2011, 05:59:36 am
OK, It's my misunderstanding.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on November 06, 2011, 06:01:59 am
So please check volts/div max voltages who have scope with 2.04 or 2.05 versions.

I went to check and found the same results as Flavour Flave: 2.04 SP1 on 1x: max 10v/div.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 09, 2011, 12:50:36 am
[...]
Having spent some time on the BlackFin documentation, this is what I've quickly found in the rigol_ldr.h:
[...]
Well, according to the BlackFin "Loader and Utilities Manual" rev. 2.2, page 3-5:
"The boot ROM evaluates the first byte of the boot stream at address 0x2000 0000.
If it is 0x40, eight-bit boot is performed.
A 0x60 byte assumes a 16-bit memory device and performs eight-bit DMA.
A 0x20 byte also assumes 16-bit memory but performs 16-bit DMA.".


Since there is such an entry (with a value equal to 0x60) at all the .RGL firmware upgrade files (right after the 21-byte revision header and before the 10-byte bootloader header) I think that the source file above should rather read something in the lines of:
Code: [Select]
struct rgl_hdr {
uchar name[10];
uchar version[4];
uchar dummy1[2];
uint32 crc32;
uchar dummy2;
};

struct ldr_hdr {
uint16   bmode;
uint32   addr;
uint32   size;
uint16   flags;
};

WRONG!

I was wrong. Actually, the first boot Byte in the ldr_hdr (the 0x60 one in the DS1000 firmware upgrade files case) is the LSB of the first firmware file dword after the 21 bytes version header.

I am sorry for the false alarm, Krater...
I promise I will stop trying to read the BlackFin documentation with a cloudy head again! :P

I think I have just found a new way to kill my (limited) spare time: Re-writing the whole IDA project from scratch, adding support for the internal Boot-ROM (residing at the memory space address 0xEF00.0000) and the DMA transfer engine (that the Boot-ROM uses to boot the FLASH contents into the SDRAM) of the BlackFin processor. Then I will see how to deal with the firmware portions that include scary strings like AUTO_KEY_Lock&Unlock.RGL... Then, I guess that a custom JTAG dongle based on a microcontroller or, even better, the blazing fast FT2232H will be in order, followed by a simple application to access the Spansion FLASH memory.

Wouldn't it be nice adding, say, serial commands to the firmware in order to be dumping and updating the Spansion memory contents? Or, forcing this nice piece of hardware open source?


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: TheLittlestFish on November 10, 2011, 04:17:43 am
Hellene,

Just upgraded my Rigol DS1052E to DS1152E with 00.02.04 SP1. No increase in noise from reference measurements.

All I can say is thanks!

(Props also go out to Polossatik, Drieg and the countless others who made this hack possible!)

Fish.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 10, 2011, 07:06:42 am
I am glad you made it, Fish!

Now, the fact that the noise did not increase after the model upgrade (since the higher frequencies are not filtered anymore) indicates that the hardware of your device must be flawless and it works as designed.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: krater on November 10, 2011, 11:37:00 pm


Wouldn't it be nice adding, say, serial commands to the firmware in order to be dumping and updating the Spansion memory contents? Or, forcing this nice piece of hardware open source?


-George

Tooooo late ;)
I've build i firmware like this, if you want it, send me a private message.
As i said, i working on a toolchain, and actually i can upload and start code on the scope automatic. All shall be open source, but at the moment i think its not done enough to release a first version.

cheers,
krater
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 11, 2011, 03:12:55 am
Thank you Krater, I appreciate this!

By the way, this is my little contribution to your project:
A .CFG file for the ADSP-BF531 including almost all the processor's register and bit definitions (see the _BOOTROM_X entries!), built specifically for the Rigol firmware files. Please, rename the attached file from .txt to .cfg.

Speaking of which, have you seen my latest addition to the DS1000 schematics (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.msg71873#msg71873)?


-George


EDIT: Wrong file! Updated now.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dsokoll on November 26, 2011, 09:21:23 pm
I just finished the upgrade. I have HW 58 and am running 00.02.04.SP1. So far it works perfect...tomorrow will be the big test. I am going to hit it with a 3000V ( properly attenuated ) pulse with a 150ps rise time... i will test it side by side with my Tek 6604 6gHz scope.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dsokoll on November 29, 2011, 04:42:32 pm
After completing the DS1052E upgrade, i tested the bandwidth with a pulse from a Barth pulse generator. The pulse was 3000V with a 300ns pulse width. I used Barth GLP-26, GLP-20 and a 142-NMFP-20B attenuators for a Vr of 1,986.42. The TEK TDS6604 registerd a rise time of 168ps while the Rigol came in at 3.320ns, i believe is just better than the 100mHz. With a measured Vmax of 1.46 that would put the measured voltage at 2900.18. Not bad for a $379.00 oscilloscope. Very happy with this product...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on November 30, 2011, 02:45:22 am
Thanks dsokoll!  Its good to compare the 1052e to your top notch gear to know the Rigol still lives up to its 100 MHz spec after the hack.

After completing the DS1052E upgrade, i tested the bandwidth with a pulse from a Barth pulse generator. The pulse was 3000V with a 300ns pulse width. I used Barth GLP-26, GLP-20 and a 142-NMFP-20B attenuators for a Vr of 1,986.42. The TEK TDS6604 registerd a rise time of 168ps while the Rigol came in at 3.320ns, i believe is just better than the 100mHz. With a measured Vmax of 1.46 that would put the measured voltage at 2900.18. Not bad for a $379.00 oscilloscope. Very happy with this product...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: pepo on November 30, 2011, 02:46:26 am
 :)
Thank you guys,
just wanted to confirm I made the downgrade of my brand new DS1052E from 2.06 to 2.02,
patched it according the description on page one and files found on page 61
and then upgraded it again to 2.04.
After calibrating it, it works as expected!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on November 30, 2011, 03:06:57 am
Well done test. Rise time is consistent with a 100 MHz bandwidth. This is in contrast to some earlier tests that suggested it had much more than 100 MHz bandwidth. I wonder if this is due to differences in the scopes or test methodology.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: yanir on November 30, 2011, 06:52:48 am
Well done everyone, all the hard work has actually forced rigol to sell the 100Mhz version for 399!
http://www.saelig.com/product/PSPC017.htm (http://www.saelig.com/product/PSPC017.htm)

No need to work so hard on the hack ;).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: torch on November 30, 2011, 08:09:01 am
That's the exact same price they are selling the 50Mhz DS1152E for:
http://www.saelig.com/PSBEB100/PSPC016.htm (http://www.saelig.com/PSBEB100/PSPC016.htm)

Looks like complete capitulation!

 :'( I'm gonna miss this thread...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Lightages on November 30, 2011, 08:51:25 am
There is no need to stop developing mods for the DS series. The 50MHz version is still available $50 cheaper, plus with the hard work that people have been doing we might have more or different functionality!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: p51dblue on November 30, 2011, 02:16:59 pm
Hello, I just got a Rigol DSE1052 and I looked at the first page on this thread I got the soft version
00.02.05.02.00
= 58

I thought that I will be able to hack it but ...I am doing something wrong...cant do.
I got all the soft installed and try to do it. I am getting lost .
In my case do I need USB stick or not. If my version is 2.5.SP2 I will have to go to George stuff on Page 43.
There I do not know what to do, I do not get how to do it.
I was looking to find that Frank say was able to make .

Bottom line I am to dumb to figure out. Can any one help me out to upgrade mine?

Thank You
Adrian
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 30, 2011, 02:18:46 pm
After completing the DS1052E upgrade, i tested the bandwidth with a pulse from a Barth pulse generator.
[...]
Very nicely done, dsokoll! Thank you for the quite interesting results of the tests you've done!

Really, have you taken these readings by upgrading your DS1052E to the 100 MHz DS1102E model or to the 150 MHz DS1152E (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70384#msg70384) one (by entering "DS1152E" as the model type instead of "DS1102E" for the 100 MHz version)?

Though the pictures seem to be missing, there is a post by flolic (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg44563#msg44563), a fellow EEVBlogger, who broke the 200 MHz bandwidth barrier on his hacked '1052, by having also pushed the bias of the front-end (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.msg55197#msg55197) differential amplifier LMH6552, by slightly changing the input and the gain feedback resistors from 365 to 270 ohms.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 30, 2011, 02:23:51 pm
Adrian,

See this post (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70374#msg70374) and this one (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70324#msg70324), also.


-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dsokoll on November 30, 2011, 03:31:28 pm
Very nicely done, dsokoll! Thank you for the quite interesting results of the tests you've done!

Really, have you taken these readings by upgrading your DS1052E to the 100 MHz DS1102E model or to the 150 MHz DS1152E (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70384#msg70384) one (by entering "DS1152E" as the model type instead of "DS1102E" for the 100 MHz version)?


George,

I apologize for not enclosing pictures of the test setup. This should answer your question.

Regards,
Doug
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 30, 2011, 03:41:57 pm
Ah, thank you Doug.

It keeps bugging me, though, the "what if" question. I mean, having access to such powerful test equipment, like you do, I would certainly try to find out whether instructing the DS1052E to become a DS1152E device would make any substantial difference from being a <EDIT>DS1052E DS1102E</EDIT> model or not.


Thank you, again,
-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dsokoll on November 30, 2011, 03:44:38 pm
George,

Forgot to send these....This is the 6kV 300ns charge line and the attenuation that was used.

Doug
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dsokoll on November 30, 2011, 03:48:21 pm
George,

My understanding is the timebase is still limited to only 2ns. Maybe is would affect the overall bandwidth and allow a faster rise time, which would still be good. I can't answer that though.

Doug
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: A Hellene on November 30, 2011, 04:13:25 pm
Forgot to send these....This is the 6kV 300ns charge line and the attenuation that was used.
Ah, this is pure electronics geeks porn! :)
Thank you for sharing!


On the other matter, yes the timebase will remain the same. But, somehow, I am a little bit optimistic since the device does not have a -3dB knee at 100 MHz, as expected by a 100 MHz model. Actually, the attenuation of the DS1102E seems to be only 0.29 dB (= -20*log(2900/3000)) at 100 MHz, which means that the device is, probably, more than capable of handling higher bandwidths when the software filtering of the top frequency will be pushed even further, to the 150 MHz point.


Anyway, thank you for your contribution,
-George
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dsokoll on November 30, 2011, 05:51:17 pm
The above test data was from a single pulse from a 300ns charge line. I was just measuring the rise time from this very fast pulse generator to see if the conversion worked... I think the original rise time was around 6.8ns. and now its anywhere between 3.3ns and 3.6ns when sending a burst of pulses at 10Hz. No noise issues. I actually wish i had bought the 1102 with the logic analyzer though....

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: dsokoll on November 30, 2011, 05:59:32 pm
I am a little bit optimistic since the device does not have a -3dB knee at 100 MHz, as expected by a 100 MHz model. Actually, the attenuation of the DS1102E seems to be only 0.29 dB (= -20*log(2900/3000)) at 100 MHz

I will run a more detailed series of tests and post the results in the near future.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 30, 2011, 10:00:04 pm
I am a little bit optimistic since the device does not have a -3dB knee at 100 MHz, as expected by a 100 MHz model.
this is tested with a 300ns pulse, i would say/certified this as 3MHz signal attenuation test. to properly profile the signal attenuation, a clean sine signal should be used AFAIK. i already PM dsokoll for this, it seems there will be light on this.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 30, 2011, 10:07:19 pm
I actually wish i had bought the 1102 with the logic analyzer though....
ISTR there is not so good review on Rigol LA module. so be careful on what you wish. even DS1052E+LA will cost twice. so DS1052E still bang for buck you can get. YMMV though.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on December 01, 2011, 12:04:48 am
I am a little bit optimistic since the device does not have a -3dB knee at 100 MHz, as expected by a 100 MHz model.
this is tested with a 300ns pulse, i would say/certified this as 3MHz signal attenuation test. to properly profile the signal attenuation, a clean sine signal should be used AFAIK. i already PM dsokoll for this, it seems there will be light on this.
Try looking at the frequency spectrum of a square wave. It has infinite odd harmonics. If you pass the signal through a low-pass filter, the rise time will be increased, which is what this test is based on. For a Gaussian one-pole filter, this depends on the -3dB point of the filter. The large pulse width is optimal, since it makes it easy to determine the 0% and 100% points and calculate the 10% and 90% points. This is an issue with the semi-dirac pulse used by some hobbyists.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: vl400 on December 02, 2011, 01:28:02 pm
Standard unmodifed DS1052E fed from an Agilent E8257D freq synth..
(http://i.picasion.com/pic47/f5b0a69e7811b8c559339291935ce3e9.gif)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 03, 2011, 05:48:15 am
thanks for the pic vl400. any tabulated data? ok i saw it, bottom left, thanks alot. all the frequencies are using 1Vpp sine signal right? sorry but qurious.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: vl400 on December 03, 2011, 07:20:58 am
Correct, 1v p-p signal for all. The time base changed, otherwise the scope settings remained unchanged. The pics were just for my reference point prior to doing the hack (still not done).
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: alm on December 03, 2011, 07:26:48 am
These results are consistent with a -3 dB point around 50 MHz, just what you would expect for a 50 MHz scope.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Mechatrommer on December 03, 2011, 09:17:24 am
The pics were just for my reference point prior to doing the hack (still not done).
i will be looking forward your next picture when you are done with the hack.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Chris Wilson on December 10, 2011, 09:17:12 am
Is this "modification" available for, or applicable to, any of the 4 channel models? Thanks, amazing work!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Alexasha on December 12, 2011, 12:36:13 am
Hi! My scope has a serial number DS1ENXXXXXX, what of the consequences for hack?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: rwcherry on December 14, 2011, 04:56:22 am
Hi! My scope has a serial number DS1ENXXXXXX, what of the consequences for hack?
I am also interested in the answer to this. Has anyone performed the 'hack' on a scope with this serial number sequence?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: iLLNESS on December 14, 2011, 07:10:49 am
Hi! My scope has a serial number DS1ENXXXXXX, what of the consequences for hack?

im also interested in this information. just received my scope and its the DS1EN not ED, as well it has 00.02.06.00.01 hw 58.

can this thing be upgraded to 100mhz? i read someone posting they successfully downgraded 02.06 but can't seem to find that post anymore.

EDIT: followed the guide on page 1 but replaced the upgrade file with the 02.06.01 to 02.02.02 upgrade file located herehttp://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70378#msg70378 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70378#msg70378)

scope is now a DS1102E / DS1EB SN :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Alexasha on December 18, 2011, 05:13:48 am
Yes, it works  :)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gtg110b on January 01, 2012, 11:56:06 am
Where do I find the firmware to update it back to 2.06 (I can only find 2.04 on Rigol's site)?...Or do I need to if that is what came with the scope?  I remember reading the the firmware rollback does not actually change the firmware.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: amspire on January 01, 2012, 12:12:39 pm
Where do I find the firmware to update it back to 2.06 (I can only find 2.04 on Rigol's site)?...Or do I need to if that is what came with the scope?  I remember reading the the firmware rollback does not actually change the firmware.

Are you trying to tell me you didn't read all of the previous 64 pages of posts in this thread? How slack is that.  :)

The post you are looking for is:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70381#msg70381 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70381#msg70381)

Just be aware that some people have had funny things happen to their scopes after upgrades, so be warned.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: kcutka on January 09, 2012, 11:18:12 pm
This was steps, that I was done, to successful hack my Rigol DS1052E scope (HW58  ver2.06) to DS1102E.   :D

1. be sure that your USB key is working with Rigol scope (I use empty 1GB PQI FAT16).
2. be sure that your Rigol scope has proper USB connection with your PC (my OS is WinXP SP3) and there are installed all needed files, see details on page 1.
3. put put RGL update file from "Downgrade_2.06.00.01_to_2.02SP2" folder on USB key (I use file from page 61).
4. let Rigol do the update of the firmware (in fact this is downgrade).
5. remove the USB key, verify that the update was done successful eg. by measuring and playing around the scope, check the connection with PC.
6. ON/OFF your scope, if all seems OK, start rigupgr.exe (shafri's tool, from page 61) and patch.
7. ON/OFF your scope, check the model (you will se now DS1102E) on start.
8. put RGL update file from "Upgrade_to_2.04sp1" folder on empty USB key, do the update of firmware (I use file from page 61. and I use noproblem version 2.04), there are reports that it's no good to go on orig. version (2.06). 
9. do the scope calibration (steps in user manual) and enjoy your 100MHz scope.

My question: Does anybody try with success to do the hack on 58 HW, 2.06 and after downgrade and changing model going back on 2.06?
 
Be aware of fact, that you are doing the mentioned changes on your own risk.  :P
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: MarkF786 on January 19, 2012, 03:01:40 pm
Would someone be able to give me some quick pointers on where to get the 2.05 SP2 to 2.02 SP2 (v2.05.02.00 to v2.02.02.00) downgrade firmware?  I read A Hellene's post (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg42404#msg42404)) and he wrote, "2.05 SP2 to 2.02 SP2 (v2.05.02.00 to v2.02.02.00) downgrade firmware attached!" but I don't see any file attached.

If someone has a copy of the file or can help clear my confusion, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: amspire on January 19, 2012, 03:20:38 pm
Click on the links in the text:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70378#msg70378 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70378#msg70378)
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70381#msg70381 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg70381#msg70381)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: user_bad on January 21, 2012, 05:23:21 am
I got the 1052e firmware 2.06.00.01, as did a 60 page and all OK. HAVE 100 MHz.
Thank you very much.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: gazza666 on February 01, 2012, 12:45:35 am
My Firmware version 00.02.05 SP2
Downgraded as per instructions
Changed to 100 MHz
Upgraded to 00.02.04
No problem
Proud owner of 100 MHz scope
Just need to find out how to use it
Can’t check a 100 MHz signal because don’t know how to
Any easy answer to this

Thanks for everybody’s effort in making this possible

Garry
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: joh on February 01, 2012, 12:56:56 am
Another one joins the club, welcome.

Earlier in the thread some members were planning to build a replacement power supply, possibly even battery. Did anyone make progress with an alternative power supply for the scope?
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Lightages on February 01, 2012, 06:08:36 am
No, unfortunately I have no had the time. Maybe in a few months...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: MarkF786 on February 01, 2012, 02:11:03 pm
Thanks for the help; I successfully "upgraded" my unit to 100MHz.  Before the change, I was at 2.05 SP2 (HW 58) and didn't have any flicker issues (or any other issues I noticed after using the scope for a few weeks).  Now I left it at 02.04 SP1 as recommended, but I am curious about going back to 2.05 SP2 or upgrading to 2.06.  Darn, I wish Rigol had release notes for each version of firmware to know what's changed and if it's worth upgrading.

Has anyone had success going back to 2.05 SP2 or 2.06 (assuming you didn't have the flicker problem before the change)?

P.S. I noticed the DSP version went from the original 00.00 to 02.20.  This can also be seen in Polossatik's screen captures at the beginning of the thread.  Is there any significance to this?

Mark
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: saturation on February 01, 2012, 11:08:31 pm
If you check the archives, there are reports of bricked scopes going back to the higher version firmware.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog-specific/the-dark-side-of-the-rigol-hack-bricked-scope-how-to-fix-it/msg85354/#msg85354 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog-specific/the-dark-side-of-the-rigol-hack-bricked-scope-how-to-fix-it/msg85354/#msg85354)


Thanks for the help; I successfully "upgraded" my unit to 100MHz.  Before the change, I was at 2.05 SP2 (HW 58) and didn't have any flicker issues (or any other issues I noticed after using the scope for a few weeks).  Now I left it at 02.04 SP1 as recommended, but I am curious about going back to 2.05 SP2 or upgrading to 2.06.  Darn, I wish Rigol had release notes for each version of firmware to know what's changed and if it's worth upgrading.

Has anyone had success going back to 2.05 SP2 or 2.06 (assuming you didn't have the flicker problem before the change)?

P.S. I noticed the DSP version went from the original 00.00 to 02.20.  This can also be seen in Polossatik's screen captures at the beginning of the thread.  Is there any significance to this?

Mark
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: n3wbie on February 04, 2012, 03:08:31 am
So, with this scope now on sale for $314 shipped (!), I'm thinking about finally pulling the trigger and getting one! Question, though. Will the 50MHz to 100MHz hack work with the version of the scope that Rigol is selling? (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ds1052e/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ds1052e/))

Thanks!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: MarkF786 on February 04, 2012, 03:52:48 am
I bought might from Rigol about a month ago and the software on the unit was 2.05 SP2 and the hardware was 58.  I hacked mine to 100MHz this week.  Even if it shipped with 2.06 software, you could still hack it.

But heck, even left at 50Mhz, it's a good scope at a good price.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: kripton2035 on February 04, 2012, 04:27:46 am
I'm more interested with the mixed rigol 1052D...
is it hackable to 1102D ???
regards,
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: n3wbie on February 07, 2012, 10:38:16 am
I went ahead and bought the DS1052E! My first oscilloscope, so I'm pretty excited  :) Hopefully whatever firmware it has will support the 100 MHz upgrade..
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: prospector on February 08, 2012, 03:42:46 pm
I successfully converted the DS1052E version 2.06.01, that I purchased two days ago, to a DS1102E. I followed the instructions on page 1 and the process went flawlessly.  I was not sure what to do with Ultrascope, while I was connected to it Shafri's program wouldn't read the scope. I closed Ultrascope and ran rigupgr.exe again and everything worked. Great stuff!!!
.
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: timotet on February 14, 2012, 08:48:57 am
Hi first post.
I successfully hacked my DS1052E 2.05.02 HW 58   to DS1102E 2.04 SP1.
I bought the scope last week from rigol-na.

thanks for the info and all the hard work ;D

Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: lambdafu on February 16, 2012, 02:44:45 pm
Successful upgrade from DS1052E 2.6.0.1 HV=58 to DS1102E 2.6.0.1 (calibration certificate says mid december 2011), following the standard procedure described here exactly (I used echo to usbtmc device on Linux).  Works like a charm.  :D

I didn't bother to try the 1152 version, mostly because it was unclear to me if there was any difference at all and which serial number letter to use (F or B).

Thank you!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mattb.351 on February 25, 2012, 09:53:46 pm
Am I missing something? All the files for downgrading to 2.02 from other versions are available. What I cannot find is the 2.05.02 downgrade file. Any pointers? Thanks in advance...
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: timotet on February 26, 2012, 05:49:15 am
try page 59 of this post :D
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: srmahaffy on February 26, 2012, 06:29:32 pm
 8)Hi, I am a newbie, and wanted to thank everyone for the great write up on how to upgrade a DS1052E to a DS1102E. I felt nervous and scared to do the upgrade because I wasn't sure if I could understand everything, but with time to digest it I did! Shafri's program made it extra easy too. Thank you!!  8)
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: mattb.351 on February 28, 2012, 12:10:37 am
Thanks timotet, I just couldn't find that. 100MHz here I come!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: rar on March 07, 2012, 05:51:21 pm
Successful upgrade from DS1052E 00.02.06.00.01 HV=58 to DS1102E 00.02.04 SP1, following the standard procedure described here exactly.  Everything went like clockwork!  ;D
Carefully read the one page!
Thank you!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: danander11 on March 08, 2012, 08:16:42 pm
Another happy customer here wishing to offer a huge THANK YOU! to everyone involved..  (not the least of which is Rigol for not locking this off).

I've gone from 0.02.06 to 0.02.04 SP1.    Has anyone going all the way back up to 0.02.06 noticed any issues?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
Post by: Fraser on March 09, 2012, 02:39:19 am
The best advice I can offer is to stay with 2.04 SP1

Higher versions do not appear to have added worthwhile improvements and as many manufacturers state...if you do not have any problems with the firmware you are running DO NOT upgrade your version. Its often a numbers game...a later version number must be better right ?....not necessarily so and it is my opinion that this applies to