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Online EEVblog

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EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« on: September 15, 2017, 09:20:56 AM »
Another look at finding a $50 analog oscilloscope on ebay.
A follow-up from a video from 4 years ago.
 
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Offline dardosordi

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 10:11:10 AM »
Dave, last time I listened to your scope video I ended up like this:  :scared:

Scored 3 Tek 2245A for ~160 USD, ended up selling 2 and that paid for most of it.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 11:01:36 AM »
Dave, last time I listened to your scope video I ended up like this:  :scared:
Scored 3 Tek 2245A for ~160 USD, ended up selling 2 and that paid for most of it.

Great work!
Those kind of flips are certainly possible, I've done it myself several times before.
Easier in countries like Australia were you can buy form the US cheap and resell here for much higher price (including covering the shipping).
 

Offline n3vti

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 11:10:23 AM »
I managed to score a Tektronix T922 (20 MHz) and a T932 (35 MHz) a few years ago. I paid about $102 for everything. I was originally getting the 922, but the seller found the 932 and offered to throw it in for free. Sadly, when it came in, the casing on the 922 was destroyed, and the 932 barely worked, and was missing a channel input. My original intention was to combine the two into one working unit, but I never got around to it.  :( Hopefully, i can get it working again and have it as a backup to my Tek 2446  :)
 

Offline cdev

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 11:39:34 AM »
I got a 2211 in mint condition that seems to still be 'in calibration' in terms of accuracy for $75. Its a very useful, usable scope.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline nixfu

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 01:50:02 PM »
Wish the price of 465s would come down.  I would like to have one.  But,  I think 465s are starting to be more of a collectors item now and the prices are actually going up.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 01:56:39 PM by nixfu »
 

Offline Barny

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 05:21:54 PM »
I had the luck to get a 20 MHz two channel oscilloscope for 50 euro cent some time ago.
The guy selling it to me was taking it to the scrap yard in useable condition.
(I paid insane 12 Euro for the probes at Amazon.)
The only negative I'm able to say about this oscilloscope is the extreme fiddly trigger because there is no indication of the trigger level.

Sadly I dont knew the exact type anymore, because I gave it to my nephew short after I bought it.
I think it was a Goldstar or some other brand with Gold in its name.
(I have a DS 5152MA and had no space for a second one.)


[Edit]
I think I'm a little weirdo because I normally don't buy used tools and save a little longer to buy new ones.
It's because you never knew how the previous owner treated them.
[/Edit]
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 07:16:49 PM by Barny »
 

Offline bjcuizon

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 07:43:41 PM »
The bay will be flooded with >$100 scopes in no time. :D :D ...the eevblog effect. :-BROKE
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Offline kosine

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 07:52:50 PM »
Don't rely on ebay - too many people looking for bargains. I got a 50MHz Hitachi V-522 'scope in great condition from Bidspotter in the UK. Paid just £20 for it. (Postage and buyer's premium added another £30, but still a good deal.)

It came from a liquidated caravan company, so I was the only bidder. Every town has auctioneers handling company liquidations, so they're a good place to keep an eye on.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2017, 09:00:14 AM »
The darker reality is that a fully functional analogue oscilloscope isn't going to happen EASILY for $50 in Australia, or anywhere else unless you've got a bottled Genie granting wishes  :clap:

Seriously consider spending upwards of $120 to $250 for a fully functional analogue oscilloscope owned by someone moving on or upgrading,
that's looked after it, and not scared to demo it working properly or let you have a tweak.

Half trashed or intemittent oscilloscopes are more trouble than they're worth for a newb, hobbyist, repair tech or a EE that just wants to get on with it

Do the math: how much is a knackered $50 cro going to cost in time, and parts if you can get them|O
AND access them on the board without banging up other parts, avoiding sensitive 'unobtanium' components, 2000 volt zaps and much higher voltages.  :o

If the calibration is miles off, and troubleshooting and probing waveforms via a service manual on a faulty device or any DUT, you are SOL in any direction.  :-[


$50 oscilloscopes are great for repair people that can fix and calibrate them, keep a couple (or MORE! lol) for themselves,

then resell at $120 to $250 to users that need to get work done, not crossing their fingers their test gear is working


It saves these great pieces of kit from the landfills, puts a few dollars in the sellers and repairers pockets,

and buyers get a classic WORKING oscilloscope for the price of a decent multimeter (or 2 tanks of petrol) 

especially good news if cheap DSLows don't quite do it for them,

which may one day come in handy for practicing topedoes and dropkicks in the back yard


Do yourself a favour and make sure your first analogue oscilloscope is a WORKING one and avoid disappointment. 
Mine was a used  -everything working-  Trio-Kenwood 15mhz dual channel, still kicking goals 20+ years later   :-+

« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 09:09:31 AM by Electro Detective »
 

Online Towger

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2017, 09:14:48 AM »
Depends.  A few years ago I got a "fully working" Tec 2235 off eBay locally for €50. Probably spend another 50 on replacing a couple of control pots and knobs, and new probes.  It sat on the shelf for a couple of years, until I gave it away for the cost of postage to a young lad on the fourm looking for a free/cheap scope.

So I got a scope for €50 (a hard, but not impossible task in Ireland) got entertainment fixing it up and passed to on to a good cause.
 

Offline bjcuizon

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2017, 09:32:53 AM »
The darker reality is that a fully functional analogue oscilloscope isn't going to happen EASILY for $50 in Australia, or anywhere else unless you've got a bottled Genie granting wishes  :clap:

Seriously consider spending upwards of $120 to $250 for a fully functional analogue oscilloscope owned by someone moving on or upgrading,
that's looked after it, and not scared to demo it working properly or let you have a tweak.

Half trashed or intemittent oscilloscopes are more trouble than they're worth for a newb, hobbyist, repair tech or a EE that just wants to get on with it

Do the math: how much is a knackered $50 cro going to cost in time, and parts if you can get them|O
AND access them on the board without banging up other parts, avoiding sensitive 'unobtanium' components, 2000 volt zaps and much higher voltages.  :o

If the calibration is miles off, and troubleshooting and probing waveforms via a service manual on a faulty device or any DUT, you are SOL in any direction.  :-[


$50 oscilloscopes are great for repair people that can fix and calibrate them, keep a couple (or MORE! lol) for themselves,

then resell at $120 to $250 to users that need to get work done, not crossing their fingers their test gear is working


It saves these great pieces of kit from the landfills, puts a few dollars in the sellers and repairers pockets,

and buyers get a classic WORKING oscilloscope for the price of a decent multimeter (or 2 tanks of petrol) 

especially good news if cheap DSLows don't quite do it for them,

which may one day come in handy for practicing topedoes and dropkicks in the back yard


Do yourself a favour and make sure your first analogue oscilloscope is a WORKING one and avoid disappointment. 
Mine was a used  -everything working-  Trio-Kenwood 15mhz dual channel, still kicking goals 20+ years later   :-+


Yes! It is really not that easy to find cheap (but good) second hand gear in AU, let alone NZ.
You really need patience if you want to get a great bargain. I bought my first cro here from our local auction site called "Trade Me" for ~NZ$56. But it was not that easy to find it. (I did not consider eBay because shipping will kill you :() Basically, I started searching for oscilloscopes last December and there were no scopes to be found. (there were dso's of course, but to expensive for me) It was already March but still no luck (well there were some occasional tek cros, but they're over $150). Until it was May when somebody posted a leader scope with a starting bid of $30. Nobody bid on it until the closing hour (it closed at 7AM on a wednesday and there were only 3 bidders :phew:) and then it was finally mine! Yay! ...After all the six months I have waited :) :D
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 09:35:11 AM by bjcuizon »
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2017, 10:04:15 AM »
I must be missing something  :-// 

Why wait around weeks or months in anticipation (and frustration)  to score a POSSIBLE bargain (or lemon  :horse:)   that others are also competing for   :box: :box:

when a few dollars more gets a working oscilloscope on your workbench NOW and get immediate work done and or learning experience/fun out of it   :-+


Is it worth the internet time and electricity wasted, waiting around for the elusive $50 lucky dip ?  Better odds blindfold betting at any racetrack imo


No thanks, I still pay top dollar for a fully working scope/s, and get top dollar back if/when I sell as fully working.

I must be in a minority that saves a few dollars to get something that's verified working,
though I'm no stranger to basic oscilloscope repair and calibration 'IF' I have no choice
..or need ANOTHER headbanging challenge  |O  on a rainy weekend     ;D

 
 

Online wilfred

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 10:28:26 AM »
I must be missing something  :-// 

You are missing something. Punctuation!
Too much  |O :box: :-//  :horse: and not enough "?,.".

The expression "to flog a dead horse" means to persist in some futile action with no hope of success. I don't think patiently searching for and judiciously bidding modestly on scopes is time wasted or futile. There is a skill and discipline in bidding and winning at a lower price. And it's fun to nab a bargain. Any fool can bid high or pay the asking price. If there is some value in the opportunity cost of getting it now then OK that's valid. It doesn't apply to everyone and there are many lost souls who seek out the satisfaction of getting a bargain on test equipment.

I think Dave's advice is spot on. My motto when seeking a bargain is "Don't die wondering." Always make an offer. If your offer is halfway reasonable in terms of other sale prices you'll get a Yes a lot more often than you get a No. If not then you will soon learn to adjust your offers to something more likely to succeed. So then you get your oscilloscope AND at a better price. That applies on Ebay  or in a retail shop or anywhere.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2017, 11:00:51 AM »
Ya.  Just like 4 years ago and the previous drive time video, I disagree.  The only person who I could honestly recommend going on ebay and buying an ancient analog scope as their First/Only scope would be like a classic car mechanic or something where they may need to look at an analog tach signal twice a year or something.

If you are starting out and plan on sticking with this electronics thing, then you are EXACTLY the person who need to buy a DSO.  Any (modern) DSO.  The cheapest Owon scope will be infinitely more useful than an ancient analog scope.  People new to electronics don't spend a significant amount of time working EXCLUSIVELY in the analog world anymore.  It doesn't help that someone new searching ebay is completely unqualified for determining scope quality or functionality of something 30-40 years old.

If you plan on doing any activity (not just electronics) for a significant amount of time, never start out buying the absolute cheapest thing to "just start out".  You will spend more money (and quickly) once you outgrow the cheap crap.  If you were to buy any Rigol scope, it would most likely not get outgrown for many many years unlike an old analog scope which if you are serious you will outgrow in months if not weeks.  Save up.  Mow lawns for another month.  Whatever.  Spend the $350.   

Do you want to work on one of those "Arduino" things?  Nope, analog scope won't be much help. 
Want to figure out why a serial port isn't working?  Nope, analog scope won't be much help. 
Are you a HAM and are you making a dead bug Manhattan style copper board receiver for some specific frequency??? Bingo!!!!, analog scope is for you!  But at that point you already knew that. 

Don't get sucked into this analog scope thing.  The one and only use for a classic analog oscilloscope (hopefully a Tek 7000 series mainframe) is to make your lab look more bad ass by sitting in the corner collecting dust.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/help-on-choosing-my-first-oscilloscope/msg153113/#msg153113
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/do-you-need-both-analogue-and-digital-scopes-for-your-lab/msg194845/#msg194845
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-926-introduction-to-the-oscilloscope/msg1034348/#msg1034348

It's a shame it was 35 minutes into the 36 minue video before Dave made the comment that you should probably not buy an analog scope and save your money for a proper DSO. 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 11:49:49 AM by Smokey »
 
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Offline eugenenine

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2017, 11:09:42 AM »
I picked up a Tek 2205 for $40 then found a 2211 for $50.  I need to re-sell the 2205 now.

I'm just re-starting and the old analog works so far.  I figure it will work until I can afford better then I can re-sell it to someone else needing one.
 

Offline bjcuizon

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2017, 11:18:22 AM »
I must be missing something  :-// 

Why wait around weeks or months in anticipation (and frustration)  to score a POSSIBLE bargain (or lemon  :horse:)   that others are also competing for   :box: :box:

when a few dollars more gets a working oscilloscope on your workbench NOW and get immediate work done and or learning experience/fun out of it   :-+

Is it worth the internet time and electricity wasted, waiting around for the elusive $50 lucky dip ?  Better odds blindfold betting at any racetrack imo

No thanks, I still pay top dollar for a fully working scope/s, and get top dollar back if/when I sell as fully working.

I must be in a minority that saves a few dollars to get something that's verified working,
though I'm no stranger to basic oscilloscope repair and calibration 'IF' I have no choice
..or need ANOTHER headbanging challenge  |O  on a rainy weekend     ;D
Well, I was not in a hurry of getting a scope. And at least it was working on arrival, it displayed a trace and it seems to be taken out of a university here.
I was new to scopes back then and from all those months, I learnt what kind of ballpark price would something go for, and all sorts of stuff as well. I also downloaded some scope sim apps like keysight's one so I could familiarize myself with the controls. It was a great learning experience overall.
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Offline joseph nicholas

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2017, 12:30:06 PM »
The reality is buying a 30 or 40 year old oscilloscope is probabily a waste of time and money.  Even the humble DSO 138 is a better choice than the trickers you will find on ebay.  There are some who are trying to make a living by selling these things and they are way ahead of the young and nieve buyers.  Jones is a toady for the man no doubt.  What motivates Jones is the almighty dollar.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2017, 12:52:15 PM »
As a newb with a first used WORKING analogue scope, purchased at a very fair price from previous owner who also gave me some user tips and freebie electronics, I quickly mastered it,
learned more about electronics etc and used it as a sort of reference for other used scopes that followed, to test, repair and calibrate them. As mentioned before, that scope is still going strong 20 years later.

Had I bought a knackered $50 job, I may have been discouraged, disappointed or asked a musician friend shooting a band video to toss it out of a hotel room
and perhaps missed out on the convenience and usefulness of a scope sooner than later/never

Good luck sitting in front of the box surfing Ebay for an elusive snag guys,

life is short and there's lots of probing to do NOW  :-/O

rather than waste it flogging a suss scope    :horse: :horse: :horse:   to get it to display anything  :-BROKE 

and panel beating ones dented 'bargain' ego   :-[   


i.e. don't be too cheap in life (unless you're a pro like me)      ;D



« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 06:46:11 PM by Electro Detective »
 

Offline Tony_G

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2017, 02:02:24 PM »
I can't comment on this from the perspective of a new hobbyist with limited experience but I needed to acquire an old analog scope because I had a test case that needed the Z axis (non of my other scopes worked properly w.r.t the DUT service guide).

I bought 2 Tektronix 2235 for US$125 that ended up only needing a tweak on the vertical pots and a twist of the CRT magnets.

So I think it is possible but you do need to have a little "Faith" rather than "proof"

TonyG
 

Offline thermistor-guy

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2017, 02:31:55 PM »
I bought a Tektronix 2246 (4-ch, 100 MHz) on Ebay some years ago, as my first personal oscilloscope. It was NOS, US Gov. surplus, with its contract label still on the side. Obviously not $50.

I have seen (at work) DSOs show misleading traces, due to spurious oscillations and anomalies on supposedly "low frequency" signals, so I specifically wanted an analog scope before I bought a personal DSO.

Analog scopes are great if you need to verify signal integrity in circuits like oscillators; power supplies; and amplifiers.

If you are a beginner on a budget, then yeah, a DSO gets you started, and should give you easy waveform capture and data/image transfer to your PC. Later, you can include the DSO in a personal automated test system, if your interests run in that direction.

Ideally, plan to get both at some stage - an analog scope plus a DSO.
 

Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2017, 08:57:17 PM »
The reality is buying a 30 or 40 year old oscilloscope is probabily a waste of time and money.  Even the humble DSO 138 is a better choice than the trickers you will find on ebay.
 
I have a 15MHz Hitachi V152B circa 1980.  I have a DSO138 circa last year.

There is no comparison.  Not even close.  The DSO138 is a toy - a useful toy - but a toy nonetheless.

Quote
There are some who are trying to make a living by selling these things and they are way ahead of the young and nieve buyers.

Yes, there are sellers like that - but there are also sellers that are above board.  Picking out the good ones is the challenge.

Quote
Jones is a toady for the man no doubt.  What motivates Jones is the almighty dollar.
Really?

 

Offline djos

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2017, 07:35:19 AM »
I've thought about buying an old analogue scope, but I'm seriously thinking about buying either a Siglent SDS1102CML 100MHz Dual-Channel for low $300's or saving up a bit more and getting a Rigol 1054z quad channel unit for an extra $300. Scopes are bloody expensive in Australia.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2017, 04:23:05 AM »
Why dick around with old analog junk scopes if you can buy things like these for less than $55 including shipping?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DSO112A-Mini-Handheld-Pocket-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-TFT-Touch-Screen-I7Q8-/401088702102

Or this one (although you'll need a PC to control it):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hantek-6022BE-20MHz-Handheld-2-Channels-Digital-Portable-PC-USB-Oscilloscope-/332378813681

IMHO these are much better investments if money is an issue than to get a boatanchor which can turn into a repair project at any time.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 04:25:42 AM by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: EEVblog #1022 - Finding A $50 Oscilloscope On Ebay
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2017, 04:29:08 AM »
Errr, was that a joke?  :o  :-//

Single channel only, 2MHz bandwidth, 5Msps max. Clip leads instead of scope probe....

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/has-this-been-discussed-before-a-'decent'-portable-oscope-for-$70/


EDIT: I see you added the Hantek, only 20MHz, 48Msps (depending on whether the PC s/w can keep up). The Hantek is just a dumb streamer with limited triggering in s/w, it doesn't even have an AC coupling option.

At least the DSO138 is a cheap useful toy.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 04:58:37 AM by Gyro »
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