EEVblog 1454 - Water from Air AGAIN - The Kara Pure

[EEVblog]

Another Indiegogo marketing takedown.
The Kara Pure water-from-air dessicant dehumidifier that costs US$1800 uses a $20 alkaline mineral filter to give you tasty filtered water for the cost only 1400Wh/day in energy, at best.
So dumb it hurts.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ALK-alkaline-water-filter-cartridge_62009370049.html

[thm_w]

That $10 alkaline filter cartridge looks super sketchy.

"Mineral Media Function: Healthy & natural minerals release, Ca, Mg, Li, Zn, etc"

OK, so what levels ends up being introduced? And what is the "etc" part, do we get some Pb in there too?

"Antibacterial Media Function: Inhibit bacteria breeding Antibacterial ratio:> 99%"

The gold colored balls, anyone guess at what these are made from?

[tchicago]

How do they extract water from the dessicant? I thought the desiccant by definition captures the molecules of water in microscopic pores due to extreme surface tension, making it nearly impossible to take it back out. Probably the only way to get it out is to heat it up so it gets released as a vapor, but then we back to square 1: turn vapor into water.

Also why do they need filtering so much? Whatever they filter out, where it comes from? Is that pollution comes from the desiccant itself, which means it degrades as a part of use or leaks into the produced water? So that both filters and the desiccant need to be replaced/replenished for continued use.

[thm_w]

How do they extract water from the dessicant? I thought the desiccant by definition captures the molecules of water in microscopic pores due to extreme surface tension, making it nearly impossible to take it back out. Probably the only way to get it out is to heat it up so it gets released as a vapor, but then we back to square 1: turn vapor into water.

Also why do they need filtering so much? Whatever they filter out, where it comes from? Is that pollution comes from the desiccant itself, which means it degrades as a part of use or leaks into the produced water? So that both filters and the desiccant need to be replaced/replenished for continued use.

You have to use very good filtering because you are pulling in all the junk thats in the ambient air (dust, bacteria, etc.), then letting it sit for hours at room temperature.

You can read about desiccant dehumidifiers, the material is reusable:
https://www.toyotomi.eu/product-category/dehumidifying/dessiccant-type-dehumidifier/
https://www.dehumidifierbuyersguide.com/desiccant-dehumidifier-reviews/
https://destech.eu/operation-principle/

[cortex_m0]

If the power usage Dave quoted from the inventor is correct, this thing would be ~2/3 of my whole home's power usage in the months that I don't need the heat.  It would use 420 kWh per month, my average utility bill was for about 650 kWh each month in the spring/summer/autumn

Not to mention the heat this dehumidifier generates will have to be taken out, again, by the AC.

[BrianHG]

This is going to such an extreme, maybe we should just get the crappiest water and steam distill it.

I prefer to drink steam distilled, non-mineralized water anyways.

[MrMobodies]

The Kara Pure water-from-air dessicant dehumidifier that costs US$1800 uses a $20 alkaline mineral filter to give you tasty filtered water for the cost only 1400Wh/day in energy, at best.

Like with audiophoolery is their a name for this one where they pay $1800 just so that they can taste the difference?

Just looked at their Indiegogo campaign and 3 days ago a backer is already requesting a refund:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kara-pure-make-pure-water-from-the-air#/discussion

mingfang BACKER
same here. this campaign smells like a scam. now I need to call my credit to get my money back.
3d  Up:4  Down:1

Cody Soodeen PROJECT OWNER
Hi Lewis! Great questions!
For our backer units we have made some nice updates to Kara Pure. Kara Pure actually has 4 filters, one with 3 stages of filtration and anti-microbial properties. In addition, there are UV sterilizers at multiple points throughout Kara Pure to ensure the water’s safety and purity. The water created is also pre-filtered before even entering the storage tanks and then post filtered! We currently have an air intake filter and are considering an air outtake filter to double the air purification properties. We are excited to get these new units to you guys and know that you’ll love it!
We understand that backing a new product can be scary so we are here to answer your questions and help to make you feel comfortable with your decision to back our campaign! Thank you again very much for your support. It means the world to us!
7h  0 Up  0 Down

mingfang BACKER
same here. this campaign smells like a scam. now I need to call my credit to get my money back.
3d  4 Up 1 Down

Cody Soodeen PROJECT OWNER
Hi Ming, happy to process a refund if needed. Can you please contact us and let us know your concerns?
3d  0 Up 1 Down

mingfang BACKER
I am concern about the lack of timely communication.
If I’m getting ignored now then I’m expecting more of the same in the long run.
Please process my refund.
I will continue to monitor your progress and may get back in later.
Thanks
3d  3 Up  1 Down

Cody Soodeen PROJECT OWNER
Hi Ming. I apologize for the lack of communication. I will double check with our communications team and be sure to get you a proper response. In the meantime, I will work on processing your refund. Thank you for your patience and again I do apologize for the lapse in communication.
3d  0 Up  0 Down

Shankar Viswanathan BACKER
Hi Cody, I sent three emails last week asking if my contribution could be refunded, but I didn’t hear get any response. Could you please refund my contribution as well.
2d  1 Up  0 Down

Landon Wood BACKER
Hello, I have sent 3 messages to you with no response. I would appreciate a response before the campaign ends. Contribution ID 395
6d  4 Up 0 Down

Cody Soodeen PROJECT OWNER
Hi Landon. Just checking, has anyone gotten back to you? If not, how can I help you?
3d  0 Up  0 Down

[thm_w]

This is going to such an extreme, maybe we should just get the crappiest water and steam distill it.

I prefer to drink steam distilled, non-mineralized water anyways.

https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap12.pdf

Hopefully you have some other way of getting these minerals.

[thm_w]

Just looked at their Indiegogo campaign and 3 days ago a backer is already requesting a refund:

Seems like these people have no clue what they are doing, not too surprising, indiegogo should be able to refund them directly if the campaign has not ended:
https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/526876-Refunds-Can-I-get-my-money-back-

[MrMobodies]

Just noticed that one of them has wisened up a bit:

Lewis Alston backer
Hello again Cody. I’m not trying to be difficult but I have a family member that has chronic respiratory issues. So I would appreciate any information on the zeolite. I also noticed you didn’t elaborate on the differences between this unit and a regular desiccant dehumidifier. If it’s the same than I don’t have a issue with it but I do know they use zeolite. And some give off a small amount of release upon starting. That is why I asked about it. And finally, is there any plan to verify the water quality after the filtering? Thanks for the response.
12h Up: 1  Down: 0

Now someone else wants a refund:

Shankar Viswanathan backer
Hi Cody,

I sent three messages through Indiegogo before the campaign ended and had not heard anything. I also left a message below a few days ago. After I made my contribution I came to realize that with limited space in my apartment I would not be able to accommodate the Kara Pure in my home. Hence, I was asking to refund my contribution. I didn’t hear back last week, but I saw this week that you had responded to similar requests on this discussion board, so I would appreciate a response. Thank you.
8h Up: 1 Down: 0

Cody Soodeen project owner
Hi Shankar,

I apologize for the delayed response. We appreciate your patience. As we have recently closed our campaign, we are super busy organizing the orders for the backers.

I completely understand and will process your refund as soon as possible! Thank you for your support and I hope that we can serve you in the future!
3h Up: 0  Down: 0

Good that the project owner is going to refund them.

[BrianHG]

This is going to such an extreme, maybe we should just get the crappiest water and steam distill it.

I prefer to drink steam distilled, non-mineralized water anyways.

https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap12.pdf

Hopefully you have some other way of getting these minerals.

BS.
There are more minerals in half a single potato chip than a liter mineral water.
Unless you live exclusively off of green vegetation exclusively from a rain forest where you will have a lack of salt in your diet, I don't think it is possible today to have such a mineral problem unless you have a dietary problem or a digestive system which cannot absorb specific minerals due to a genetic problem in which case mineral water will not be enough to help you.

[thm_w]

BS.
There are more minerals in half a single potato chip than a liter mineral water.
Unless you live exclusively off of green vegetation exclusively from a rain forest where you will have a lack of salt in your diet, I don't think it is possible today to have such a mineral problem unless you have a dietary problem or a digestive system which cannot absorb specific minerals due to a genetic problem in which case mineral water will not be enough to help you.

I'm not referring to special "mineral water", just regular water in general.
Anyway, did you read the link?

It has been adequately demonstrated that consuming water of low mineral content has a negative effect on homeostasis mechanisms, compromising the mineral and water metabolism in the body. An increase in urine output (i.e., increased diuresis) is associated with an increase in excretion of major intra- and extracellular ions from the body fluids, their negative balance, and changes in body water levels and functional activity of some body water management-dependent hormones.Experiments in animals, primarily rats, for up to one-year periods have repeatedly shown that the intake of distilled water or water with TDS ≤ 75 mg/L leads to: 1.) increased water intake, diuresis, extracellular fluid volume, and serum concentrations of sodium (Na) and chloride (Cl) ions and their increased elimination from the body, resulting in an overall negative balance.., and 2.) lower volumes of red cells and some other hematocrit changes (3). Although Rakhmanin et al. (6) did not find mutagenic or gonadotoxic effects of distilled water, they did report decreased secretion of tri-iodothyronine and aldosterone, increased secretion of cortisol, morphological changes in the kidneys including a more pronounced atrophy of glomeruli, and
swollen vascular endothelium limiting the blood flow. Reduced skeletal ossification was also found in rat foetuses whose dams were given distilled water in a one-year study. Apparently the reduced mineral intake from water was not compensated by their diets, even if the animals were kept on standardized diet that was physiologically adequate in caloric value, nutrients and salt composition. Results of experiments in human volunteers evaluated by researchers for the WHO report (3) are in agreement with those in animal experiments

[tszaboo]

I have one of these dehumidifiers in the attic. It eats 350w on low setting, makes a few liters a day, when the humidity is high (65-70 ish). I would never drink that water, it's great for the clothes iron though.
I also have a Brita filter, that makes the same amount of clean water in 2 minutes.

[Smokey]

Sounds like there needs to be a whole forum sub-section dedicated to "water from the air" devices.

On a serious note, when fusion power finally gets here and we actually have a virtually unlimited source of clean electricity, all this stuff then becomes viable right?  How does condensing water from the air compare to desalinization power consumption wise?

[thm_w]

Sounds like there needs to be a whole forum sub-section dedicated to "water from the air" devices.

On a serious note, when fusion power finally gets here and we actually have a virtually unlimited source of clean electricity, all this stuff then becomes viable right?  How does condensing water from the air compare to desalinization power consumption wise?

Desalination is in the thousands of liters per day capacity, and uses less power (5 kWh/m3). But you need a plant by the ocean or to live by the ocean. Also the initial cost is a bit higher, unless you go with steam distillation, which uses more power (15-20 kWh/m3). When you have unlimited source of clean electricity, a lot of options would become available.

https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9717/9/2/262/pdf

1 m³ = 1,000 L
10L / 14kWh = 1400 kWh/m3

[Sterno]

We were generating water from air at work again recently. 
I drained about 200 Litres of water from one of our compressor air tanks.

Apparently the automatic tank drain valve has been stuck for a while.