Author Topic: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC  (Read 3324 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« on: September 23, 2017, 03:13:41 PM »
What's inside this mystery dumpster dive PC?
Will it work?


 

Offline innkeeper

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 03:29:42 PM »
the i7 920's (2.66 ghz) were famous for being overclocked to 4ghz+ reliably, i've been running 3 of them at 3.8ghz 24/7 since 2008... and with that kinda overclocking, its taken a long time for it to be worthwhile considering upgrading.

so id say you can get a lot more out of that processor with some conservative (for that series processor) overclocking... give it a try.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 03:33:27 PM by innkeeper »
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Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 03:39:20 PM »
That machine can score $350 easily on eBay, or $400+ if you are patient and are willing to sell it as parts, piece by piece. Whoever threw it may either be stupid, or had a fight with his family and his family threw it out (quite common in China, daddy throws kid's computer out, usually smashed, or sells it for cheap).

That being said, if you want to OC it to 4.0GHz, get a better PSU and a better cooler. Personally I would sell it rather than keep it since it's way too power hungry. The latest Intel 8700K CPU can turbo boost to 4.3GHz for all 6 cores, and to 4.7GHz for single core, while still fitting in a 95W power envelope. It's said that its multicore performance is better than R7 1800X from leaked tests.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 04:21:16 PM »
The latest Intel 8700K CPU can turbo boost to 4.3GHz for all 6 cores, and to 4.7GHz for single core, while still fitting in a 95W power envelope. It's said that its multicore performance is better than R7 1800X from leaked tests.

Yeah, but it's not like I can just drop in the new processor, right?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 04:22:28 PM »
the i7 920's (2.66 ghz) were famous for being overclocked to 4ghz+ reliably, i've been running 3 of them at 3.8ghz 24/7 since 2008... and with that kinda overclocking, its taken a long time for it to be worthwhile considering upgrading.
so id say you can get a lot more out of that processor with some conservative (for that series processor) overclocking... give it a try.

Don't really need to do that, as I have two other machines more powerful (mine and David2's editing PC's).
Not sure what I'll do with this one.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2017, 04:23:24 PM »
The latest Intel 8700K CPU can turbo boost to 4.3GHz for all 6 cores, and to 4.7GHz for single core, while still fitting in a 95W power envelope. It's said that its multicore performance is better than R7 1800X from leaked tests.

Yeah, but it's not like I can just drop in the new processor, right?

You need DDR4 with Z370 mobo, and at this moment, DDR4 is expensive like f*. It's basically 3x the price per GB it used to be 1.5 years ago.
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Offline technix

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2017, 04:35:26 PM »
I wonder if Sagen have his PC already. If not, I think now he get one.

This machine can still compete with modern mid range machines now, if given a small upgrade of an SSD. Wipe the drive and reinstall the operating system on this thing (as the current setup is likely infested with some Chinese PUPs and that may be why the machine is thrown out.) and you get a perfectly working mid range PC.

As mentioned above the i7-950 are good overclockers, and the Fractal case here allows you to mount an all-in-one liquid cooler on the top, giving you a lot more overclocking headroom on the processor than the Intel stock cooler allows. Another slightly expensive upgrade it can use is a GeForce GTX 1060 graphics card, especially when modern game titles or 4K video is involved.
 

Offline station240

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2017, 04:48:46 PM »
Don't really need to do that, as I have two other machines more powerful (mine and David2's editing PC's).
Not sure what I'll do with this one.

Giveaway for the Australians ?
This is way better than the PC I have now
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2017, 05:09:01 PM »
Just be aware that something worth a fair bit which has been inexplicably dumped, may be stolen goods. Not necessarily because some people have more money than they know what to do with. However, just be aware that you could have your collar felt if you put it up for sale and it's spotted.

Might be worth checking if there are stolen property lists in your area.
 
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Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2017, 05:12:39 PM »
Just be aware that something worth a fair bit which has been inexplicably dumped, may be stolen goods. Not necessarily because some people have more money than they know what to do with. However, just be aware that you could have your collar felt if you put it up for sale and it's spotted.

Might be worth checking if there are stolen property lists in your area.

Don't know laws in Australia, but Chinese laws say unintentionally selling/buying dirty goods isn't illegal, but the seller is obligated to provide info of the buyer, and return money to buyer. The buyer, if being contacted, is obligated to return the dirty goods, even without a refund (if seller is the con).
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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 05:42:04 PM »
Giveaway for the Australians ?
This is way better than the PC I have now
Yeah, I would certainly buy a ticket for that lottery and happily pay the shipping costs as well, it runs rings around the old rusty things I have here, most of which have either passed their self destruct date or are on the blink anyway.   ::) :-[

Sent from my TV, It's a bit much for the PC to cope with.
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Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 07:14:20 PM »
I'd be in that.  I don't even have USB3 on this thing.

Shipping cost is a little drive - if Dave would be OK with a pickup.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2017, 08:02:56 PM »
These old 1366 platforms can be upgraded for cents now, to get a very decent PC.
Xeon X5690 100 USD, 6x3.5GHz
24 GB DDR3 RAM for some 60 USD
Video card of your liking. I'm not sure I would keep the
SSD.
For a total of some 250 USD, you get a PC which is plenty for today's tasks. I'mactually considering to get a second hand LGA2011v3 workstation. For 400 USD, there are 8 core 32 GB ram beasts. Used hardware is very very cheap.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2017, 08:18:37 PM »
These old 1366 platforms can be upgraded for cents now, to get a very decent PC.

Not quite cents.
Seems I can use any one of these processors:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/socketType.html#id4

X5650's are $35 on ebay delivered and would be a reasonable upgrade.
Just realised my lab PC is the same i7-950, so I could upgrade both machines.
X5660's about 10 bucks more.
X5690's are about $160
I have much better video cards and RAM, and a spare SSD
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 08:25:39 PM by EEVblog »
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2017, 08:20:16 PM »
All sorts of uses e.g., convert it into a NAS fileserver/backup store. You don't need to run the power-hungry GFX card in that role.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2017, 08:25:07 PM »
You should check Aliexpress for prices. I think there are some chinese computer refurbishing firms, using that, and not ebay. In any case, they sell x5690 below 100 USD, and X5660 for 30.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2017, 08:29:34 PM »
If I turned it into a FreeNAS RAID server then I'm guessing that my primary requirement would be the least power consumption?
i.e ditch the graphics card and switch to as low power a processor as I can get?
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2017, 08:41:53 PM »
If I turned it into a FreeNAS RAID server then I'm guessing that my primary requirement would be the least power consumption?
i.e ditch the graphics card and switch to as low power a processor as I can get?

Yep, don't need a monitor powered up most of the time either - and it can be stored someplace out of the way when running. I think that processer will scale power usage down when it's idling, and if you want RAID then a decent discrete controller card that includes RAID5 or 10 would be a good addition. For security I would not open any ports to the internet - but you may need to if you want to access it from a remote site (you have two offices?) so careful security-concious configuration will be required.

ChrisH
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2017, 11:11:58 PM »
Yep, don't need a monitor powered up most of the time either - and it can be stored someplace out of the way when running. I think that processer will scale power usage down when it's idling, and if you want RAID then a decent discrete controller card that includes RAID5 or 10 would be a good addition.

FreeNAS does not recommend hardware RAID.
 

Offline genBTC

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2017, 12:32:19 AM »
I can recommend the Xeon X5675 32nm 6 core, 12 thread for the X58 board. I picked up one for $43. And it OC's past 4Ghz stable. I was running my i7 950 at 3.8ghz previously and that was only 4 cores, this Xeon really kicks arse. It even has AES-NI which I didnt have before. I just picked the X5675 as the sweet spot of price, between the lineup of X5650-X5690. (Note - dont overclock on the stock fan :P)

With the 6 cores @ 4.1ghz it gets 919 cinebench multicore, and 119 single core.
Where a modern 7700k would get like 190 single core. (only downside of the CPU being so old).
(the old i7-950 @ 3.8ghz scored 571 cinebench multicore and 102 single core.)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 01:02:06 AM by genBTC »
 

Offline hans

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2017, 02:02:42 AM »
Hardware RAID has died years ago.
You really don't want to use that with spinning rust containing 2+ TB's per disk.
If you aim on running FreeNAS and want to use something modern like ZFS, they also recommended ECC memory by the way. Oh, and loads of RAM.

The i7 machine is pretty decent but it's a power hungry beast. I wouldn't use it as a server personally, unless you pay like 'zero' for electricity or need some extra room heating. On the other hand, you could build a pretty wicked NAS box , including compression and deduplication probably.

The case looks a bit beaten up, but nevertheless that's just cosmetic. I paid over 100 euro's for my R4 model, Fractal Design are really nice clean looking cases. Especially with the harddrive bay slots and the amount of sound isolation material.
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2017, 02:19:54 AM »
Hardware RAID has died years ago.

Nope, still widely used. Though, the tendency these days is to use RAID1 (Simple mirroring) or RAID10 (Mirror+stripe)

RAID5 has largely bit the dust because it was found to be less of a data protection than was thought. Plus, failure of the RAID controller itself leaves you with a perfectly intact but mysterious collection 1's and 0's that no other computer can make sense of   :-//
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 02:27:52 AM by IanMacdonald »
 

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2017, 04:38:59 AM »
Dave,

Would any of the software you use to do the tasks you do support and be helped by splitting up those tasks i.e. network rendering, or similar - divide and conquer?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 04:43:47 AM by cdev »
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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2017, 04:51:22 AM »
RAID5 has largely bit the dust because it was found to be less of a data protection than was thought. Plus, failure of the RAID controller itself leaves you with a perfectly intact but mysterious collection 1's and 0's that no other computer can make sense of   :-//

That's why hardware RAID is problematic. Thankfully, we have alternatives.
 

Offline PA0PBZ

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2017, 05:49:16 AM »
My home PC is an I7 950 with 6GB, still not found a reason to replace it. Well, it has an SSD of course, best upgrade you can do if you didn't already.
I think it's like 7 years old but it still doesn't feel slow or anything so I guess I'll be using it a bit longer.

Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline gamalot

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2017, 06:01:08 AM »
Yes I am Chinese.  ;D

 
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Offline technix

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2017, 06:02:41 AM »
Hardware RAID has died years ago.

Nope, still widely used. Though, the tendency these days is to use RAID1 (Simple mirroring) or RAID10 (Mirror+stripe)

RAID5 has largely bit the dust because it was found to be less of a data protection than was thought. Plus, failure of the RAID controller itself leaves you with a perfectly intact but mysterious collection 1's and 0's that no other computer can make sense of   :-//
I got two RAID-6 arrays though with 8x 2TB and 6x 3TB WD Reds respectively, each on one Broadcom MegaRAID 9271-8iCC. RAID-6 have two parities instead of one, tolerating up to two drive failures without losing data.

High RAID levels will likely need hardware RAID controllers due to the computing overhead, especially when older hardware is involved (like my home server based on a Core 2 Quad Q9300). You can still use RAID-5 or RAID-6 with big drives, but you need to be careful to stagger their potential failure dates. I bought my drives at different times, giving me a nice staggered production date spread and thus a potentially staggered failure dates. I also have a reliable hardware supplier that can ship me a WD Red within a day. And I have a cold spare of a 2TB and a 3TB drive ready. This way I can replace the failed drive ASAP if it happened, and RMA the failed one for a replacement.

To keep your hardware RAID card last longer you need beefy cooling. RAID cards run very hot and need a proper server case with good airflow to cool. Since I need to keep my machines quiet, I usually just strap a fan right on the card to tame the heat, using some localized airflow through a quieter fan.

As of the ECC memory, you may want to check if the motherboard supports it or not before buying it or using it as a server that requires it. Some consumer-oriented motherboards with server-class chipsets (like this X58 one, or some newer ones with C232/C236) does not route the additional pins needed for ECC memory, making the board fundamentally incompatible with them. Also check the maximum allowed memory capacity before buying anything.

If you intended to use this machine as a server, you may want to use a low end, low power graphics card in it, or go with the integrated graphics if it has one. GTX 570 is a power hungry beast.
 

Offline technix

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2017, 06:10:44 AM »
If I turned it into a FreeNAS RAID server then I'm guessing that my primary requirement would be the least power consumption?
i.e ditch the graphics card and switch to as low power a processor as I can get?

Yep, don't need a monitor powered up most of the time either - and it can be stored someplace out of the way when running. I think that processer will scale power usage down when it's idling, and if you want RAID then a decent discrete controller card that includes RAID5 or 10 would be a good addition. For security I would not open any ports to the internet - but you may need to if you want to access it from a remote site (you have two offices?) so careful security-concious configuration will be required.

ChrisH
Speaking of you having two (or three) sites, you can setup storage servers in each site and keep them in sync as disaster recovery backups. This way you won't lose your video progress even when one of your sites went up in flames for example (as Austin Evans had went through sadly.)
 
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Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2017, 07:04:38 AM »
Having a RAID disk array in no way substitutes for having a complete backup of everything, all it does is allow you to quickly get back up and running should one drive fail. It is a bit of insurance against hardware (drive) failure and you can also keep running while the repair is ongoing (no down time). However, the extra stress of rebuilding an array after substituting a faulty drive in iteself can trigger failure in another drive that otherwise was (apparently) performing just fine! Ask me how I know.

Remember - while a failed drive may be difficult to recover data from, it takes a striped RAID to _really_  screw up your data. BTDT as well... Just use disk mirroring for extra security and ease of recovery. It takes more drivespace so it depends how much you value your data..

ChrisH

 

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2017, 09:02:59 AM »
Dave,

I'm sure you are quite good at such things but I just wanted to bring up the story of the Trojan Horse.

That said, it almost certainly isn't.

That is a gorgeous looking machine indeed.
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Offline Don Hills

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2017, 01:20:21 PM »
It's quite common for Asian students in NZ (and I assume in Aus), when completing their courses, to drop off the contents of their flat at recycling centres before they fly home.
 

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2017, 01:32:21 PM »
Dave,

I'm sure you are quite good at such things but I just wanted to bring up the story of the Trojan Horse.
Loading a rootkit onto a still decent PC, then discarding it with the hope that the target will salvage it and use it without a reinstall is a bit far fetched way to break into a network.

Earlier in the year, I actually set up a bunch of Xeon PCs with GTX 570s at work. The 570s were used for image processing in automated testing, even though they're quite overkill. My guess at how they have so many 570s to begin with is that they once were part of a rendering cluster.
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Online Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2017, 01:42:45 PM »
Having a RAID disk array in no way substitutes for having a complete backup of everything, all it does is allow you to quickly get back up and running should one drive fail. It is a bit of insurance against hardware (drive) failure and you can also keep running while the repair is ongoing (no down time). However, the extra stress of rebuilding an array after substituting a faulty drive in iteself can trigger failure in another drive that otherwise was (apparently) performing just fine! Ask me how I know.

Remember - while a failed drive may be difficult to recover data from, it takes a striped RAID to _really_  screw up your data. BTDT as well... Just use disk mirroring for extra security and ease of recovery. It takes more drivespace so it depends how much you value your data..

ChrisH

Not to mention that RAID doesn't protect you against corrupted data.
 

Offline tchicago

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2017, 02:50:41 AM »
Me three. I still run my desktop PC on i7 920 processor bought in 2008, on a decent mobo from Asus. Runs 24/7 and still find no reason to upgrade.
Numerous software upgrades and reinstalls, RAM maxed out to 24G, hard drive/SSD upgrades, three power supplies replaced due to dried caps and rattling fans, refreshed the thermal compound between the CPU and the heatsink once in a couple of years, replaced case fans... but the core stays the same. Even the stock Intel heatsink with the fan is still the same.

Intel got stuck for a decade. Hopefully, AMD gains the momentum and starts to actually innovate in CPUs.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2017, 08:25:03 AM »
Intel got stuck for a decade. Hopefully, AMD gains the momentum and starts to actually innovate in CPUs.
Intel just waited for AMD to catch up. Fair play award.
 

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2017, 10:01:46 AM »
Intel just waited for AMD to catch up. Fair play award.

"We were so good, but we are now so ordinary."

Great business model.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2017, 11:15:36 AM »
Me three. I still run my desktop PC on i7 920 processor bought in 2008, on a decent mobo from Asus. Runs 24/7 and still find no reason to upgrade.

i7? Luxury! I'm still on an i5.

An i7 isn't really faster than an i5 in single threaded performance, so...  :-// These days it's more important to get plenty of RAM and an SSD.

"We were so good, but we are now so ordinary."

Great business model.

Intel and AMD have been stuck under 4GHz for a decade or so. There must be some real hurdles to go beyond that.

There also doesn't seem to be much demand for it. Most of today's really demanding compute jobs are done by GPUs or are parallelizeable to more cores. Given that, you can probably get more benefit by reducing the power consumption and putting more cores on the same die. It wouldn't surprise me to see 24 cores in the next couple of years.

Question: Is there any common task that would benefit from higher clock speeds more than having more cores? There may be some niche task (I can't think of one offhand) but it probably wouldn't sell enough chips for Intel to be interested. More cores is a much easier sell.


 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2017, 11:55:01 AM »
There also doesn't seem to be much demand for it. Most of today's really demanding compute jobs are done by GPUs or are parallelizeable to more cores. Given that, you can probably get more benefit by reducing the power consumption and putting more cores on the same die. It wouldn't surprise me to see 24 cores in the next couple of years.

Question: Is there any common task that would benefit from higher clock speeds more than having more cores? There may be some niche task (I can't think of one offhand) but it probably wouldn't sell enough chips for Intel to be interested. More cores is a much easier sell.

Online games. Unlike triple A games, ordinary online games are usually poorly optimized and usually use old SDK versions, therefore many still require very high single core performance. That's why in cyber cafes, they prefer to install i3 7350k because of the very high single core performance. Almost all 7350k chips can be overclocked stably to 4.5GHz without increasing voltage, and 4.7GHz with slightly higher core voltage.

One reason many gamers still prefer Intel 7700k over R7 1800x is because R7 1800x can rarely go beyond 4.1GHz, and most can only reach 8 core simultaneous 3.9GHz, while 7700k can easily achieve quad core 4.8GHz with good cooling and some Vcore tweaking. Despite more than 50% faster than 7700k in multi thread benchmarks, 1800x simply doesn't even come close to 7700k's single core performance.

Intel's latest 8700k achieves 4.7GHz single core boosting without overclocking, and 4.3GHz hex core boosting without overclocking. There are already reviewers managed to overclock leaked engineering samples to hex core 5.3GHz and it's stable enough to run benchmarks. I would assume 4.8GHz hex core simultaneous should be average to 8700k, with slight Vcore boosting.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2017, 02:36:15 PM »
Intel just waited for AMD to catch up. Fair play award.
The minimum recommended safety distance between "Intel" and "Fair play" is 200 words.
Less than that, there is risk of overheating and fire.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2017, 01:38:00 AM »
If I turned it into a FreeNAS RAID server then I'm guessing that my primary requirement would be the least power consumption?
i.e ditch the graphics card and switch to as low power a processor as I can get?
I don't know what power costs down under, but this isn't a frugal system. Power consumption priorities were a bit different back then, so running it 24/7 isn't recommended.
 


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