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Author Topic: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC  (Read 3243 times)

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Online gamalot

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2017, 06:01:08 AM »
Yes I am Chinese.  ;D

 
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Offline technix

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2017, 06:02:41 AM »
Hardware RAID has died years ago.

Nope, still widely used. Though, the tendency these days is to use RAID1 (Simple mirroring) or RAID10 (Mirror+stripe)

RAID5 has largely bit the dust because it was found to be less of a data protection than was thought. Plus, failure of the RAID controller itself leaves you with a perfectly intact but mysterious collection 1's and 0's that no other computer can make sense of   :-//
I got two RAID-6 arrays though with 8x 2TB and 6x 3TB WD Reds respectively, each on one Broadcom MegaRAID 9271-8iCC. RAID-6 have two parities instead of one, tolerating up to two drive failures without losing data.

High RAID levels will likely need hardware RAID controllers due to the computing overhead, especially when older hardware is involved (like my home server based on a Core 2 Quad Q9300). You can still use RAID-5 or RAID-6 with big drives, but you need to be careful to stagger their potential failure dates. I bought my drives at different times, giving me a nice staggered production date spread and thus a potentially staggered failure dates. I also have a reliable hardware supplier that can ship me a WD Red within a day. And I have a cold spare of a 2TB and a 3TB drive ready. This way I can replace the failed drive ASAP if it happened, and RMA the failed one for a replacement.

To keep your hardware RAID card last longer you need beefy cooling. RAID cards run very hot and need a proper server case with good airflow to cool. Since I need to keep my machines quiet, I usually just strap a fan right on the card to tame the heat, using some localized airflow through a quieter fan.

As of the ECC memory, you may want to check if the motherboard supports it or not before buying it or using it as a server that requires it. Some consumer-oriented motherboards with server-class chipsets (like this X58 one, or some newer ones with C232/C236) does not route the additional pins needed for ECC memory, making the board fundamentally incompatible with them. Also check the maximum allowed memory capacity before buying anything.

If you intended to use this machine as a server, you may want to use a low end, low power graphics card in it, or go with the integrated graphics if it has one. GTX 570 is a power hungry beast.
 

Offline technix

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2017, 06:10:44 AM »
If I turned it into a FreeNAS RAID server then I'm guessing that my primary requirement would be the least power consumption?
i.e ditch the graphics card and switch to as low power a processor as I can get?

Yep, don't need a monitor powered up most of the time either - and it can be stored someplace out of the way when running. I think that processer will scale power usage down when it's idling, and if you want RAID then a decent discrete controller card that includes RAID5 or 10 would be a good addition. For security I would not open any ports to the internet - but you may need to if you want to access it from a remote site (you have two offices?) so careful security-concious configuration will be required.

ChrisH
Speaking of you having two (or three) sites, you can setup storage servers in each site and keep them in sync as disaster recovery backups. This way you won't lose your video progress even when one of your sites went up in flames for example (as Austin Evans had went through sadly.)
 
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Online ChrisLX200

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2017, 07:04:38 AM »
Having a RAID disk array in no way substitutes for having a complete backup of everything, all it does is allow you to quickly get back up and running should one drive fail. It is a bit of insurance against hardware (drive) failure and you can also keep running while the repair is ongoing (no down time). However, the extra stress of rebuilding an array after substituting a faulty drive in iteself can trigger failure in another drive that otherwise was (apparently) performing just fine! Ask me how I know.

Remember - while a failed drive may be difficult to recover data from, it takes a striped RAID to _really_  screw up your data. BTDT as well... Just use disk mirroring for extra security and ease of recovery. It takes more drivespace so it depends how much you value your data..

ChrisH

 

Online cdev

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2017, 09:02:59 AM »
Dave,

I'm sure you are quite good at such things but I just wanted to bring up the story of the Trojan Horse.

That said, it almost certainly isn't.

That is a gorgeous looking machine indeed.
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Offline Don Hills

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2017, 01:20:21 PM »
It's quite common for Asian students in NZ (and I assume in Aus), when completing their courses, to drop off the contents of their flat at recycling centres before they fly home.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2017, 01:32:21 PM »
Dave,

I'm sure you are quite good at such things but I just wanted to bring up the story of the Trojan Horse.
Loading a rootkit onto a still decent PC, then discarding it with the hope that the target will salvage it and use it without a reinstall is a bit far fetched way to break into a network.

Earlier in the year, I actually set up a bunch of Xeon PCs with GTX 570s at work. The 570s were used for image processing in automated testing, even though they're quite overkill. My guess at how they have so many 570s to begin with is that they once were part of a rendering cluster.
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2017, 01:42:45 PM »
Having a RAID disk array in no way substitutes for having a complete backup of everything, all it does is allow you to quickly get back up and running should one drive fail. It is a bit of insurance against hardware (drive) failure and you can also keep running while the repair is ongoing (no down time). However, the extra stress of rebuilding an array after substituting a faulty drive in iteself can trigger failure in another drive that otherwise was (apparently) performing just fine! Ask me how I know.

Remember - while a failed drive may be difficult to recover data from, it takes a striped RAID to _really_  screw up your data. BTDT as well... Just use disk mirroring for extra security and ease of recovery. It takes more drivespace so it depends how much you value your data..

ChrisH

Not to mention that RAID doesn't protect you against corrupted data.
 

Offline tchicago

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2017, 02:50:41 AM »
Me three. I still run my desktop PC on i7 920 processor bought in 2008, on a decent mobo from Asus. Runs 24/7 and still find no reason to upgrade.
Numerous software upgrades and reinstalls, RAM maxed out to 24G, hard drive/SSD upgrades, three power supplies replaced due to dried caps and rattling fans, refreshed the thermal compound between the CPU and the heatsink once in a couple of years, replaced case fans... but the core stays the same. Even the stock Intel heatsink with the fan is still the same.

Intel got stuck for a decade. Hopefully, AMD gains the momentum and starts to actually innovate in CPUs.
 

Online NANDBlog

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2017, 08:25:03 AM »
Intel got stuck for a decade. Hopefully, AMD gains the momentum and starts to actually innovate in CPUs.
Intel just waited for AMD to catch up. Fair play award.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2017, 10:01:46 AM »
Intel just waited for AMD to catch up. Fair play award.

"We were so good, but we are now so ordinary."

Great business model.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2017, 11:15:36 AM »
Me three. I still run my desktop PC on i7 920 processor bought in 2008, on a decent mobo from Asus. Runs 24/7 and still find no reason to upgrade.

i7? Luxury! I'm still on an i5.

An i7 isn't really faster than an i5 in single threaded performance, so...  :-// These days it's more important to get plenty of RAM and an SSD.

"We were so good, but we are now so ordinary."

Great business model.

Intel and AMD have been stuck under 4GHz for a decade or so. There must be some real hurdles to go beyond that.

There also doesn't seem to be much demand for it. Most of today's really demanding compute jobs are done by GPUs or are parallelizeable to more cores. Given that, you can probably get more benefit by reducing the power consumption and putting more cores on the same die. It wouldn't surprise me to see 24 cores in the next couple of years.

Question: Is there any common task that would benefit from higher clock speeds more than having more cores? There may be some niche task (I can't think of one offhand) but it probably wouldn't sell enough chips for Intel to be interested. More cores is a much easier sell.


 

Offline blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2017, 11:55:01 AM »
There also doesn't seem to be much demand for it. Most of today's really demanding compute jobs are done by GPUs or are parallelizeable to more cores. Given that, you can probably get more benefit by reducing the power consumption and putting more cores on the same die. It wouldn't surprise me to see 24 cores in the next couple of years.

Question: Is there any common task that would benefit from higher clock speeds more than having more cores? There may be some niche task (I can't think of one offhand) but it probably wouldn't sell enough chips for Intel to be interested. More cores is a much easier sell.

Online games. Unlike triple A games, ordinary online games are usually poorly optimized and usually use old SDK versions, therefore many still require very high single core performance. That's why in cyber cafes, they prefer to install i3 7350k because of the very high single core performance. Almost all 7350k chips can be overclocked stably to 4.5GHz without increasing voltage, and 4.7GHz with slightly higher core voltage.

One reason many gamers still prefer Intel 7700k over R7 1800x is because R7 1800x can rarely go beyond 4.1GHz, and most can only reach 8 core simultaneous 3.9GHz, while 7700k can easily achieve quad core 4.8GHz with good cooling and some Vcore tweaking. Despite more than 50% faster than 7700k in multi thread benchmarks, 1800x simply doesn't even come close to 7700k's single core performance.

Intel's latest 8700k achieves 4.7GHz single core boosting without overclocking, and 4.3GHz hex core boosting without overclocking. There are already reviewers managed to overclock leaked engineering samples to hex core 5.3GHz and it's stable enough to run benchmarks. I would assume 4.8GHz hex core simultaneous should be average to 8700k, with slight Vcore boosting.
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Offline bitwelder

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2017, 02:36:15 PM »
Intel just waited for AMD to catch up. Fair play award.
The minimum recommended safety distance between "Intel" and "Fair play" is 200 words.
Less than that, there is risk of overheating and fire.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: EEVblog #1026 - Mystery Dumpster Diving PC
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2017, 01:38:00 AM »
If I turned it into a FreeNAS RAID server then I'm guessing that my primary requirement would be the least power consumption?
i.e ditch the graphics card and switch to as low power a processor as I can get?
I don't know what power costs down under, but this isn't a frugal system. Power consumption priorities were a bit different back then, so running it 24/7 isn't recommended.
 


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