Author Topic: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station  (Read 11460 times)

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Offline nowlan

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2018, 10:51:52 am »
The hakko 951 have a clip that slides the tip and colored handle out of the pencil. You then slide in the tip you want. Not tip so much, but a set of colored grippy handles, that live in their own case. Look at some reviews on YT.
 

Offline gearshredder

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2018, 10:54:43 am »
anyone going to bid? 1 hr left I already have plenty.

https://www.ebay.com/i/382401687783
 

Offline SparkyFX

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2018, 11:42:56 am »
A coworker once killed a soldering iron by repeatedly cooling it down on the sponge (guess he wanted it to be cool before storing it). The water got soaked up and the heating element either oxidized or broke because of that, hence I only do short wipes on the sponge. I assume the difference of performance between the sponge and the test on copper is that the water can transport a lot of energy a lot faster through the aggregate state change to gas.

Usually i don´t think i would come across a case in which parts would break if soldered with e.g. a 50W iron, as the masses involved are usually low enough to not exceed limits. I don´t do plumbing with it. Higher power irons are of course useful for lowering the time to heat up when taking the iron out of the stand, which is nice in some commercial uses and in comparison tables. Otherwise while soldering you exchange the temperature critical part with the time critical part of that manual process and need to be careful anyway. So I thought pre heating is the way to go in corner cases like TO220 tabs to heatsinks, but thats where one could also easily blame lack of thermal considerations of the application if its not working without that? Of course i also got that bigger iron lying around, just in case and for tinkering around.

I recently accompanied my old ELV LS 50 with a WER 853D and the same ZD 985 desoldering iron that was tested a while ago, because... more displays, a set of tips i did not yet have and hot air. An older Weller at work does the job as well as some propane soldering irons (no PCB work, though).

 

Offline MT

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #78 on: March 12, 2018, 11:51:18 am »
Soddering jobs? There should be a all shootout for battery based soldering irons.
https://www.amazon.com/Weller-BL60MP-Soldering-Rechargeable-Lithium-Ion/dp/B00UM69TW2



« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 11:57:23 am by MT »
 

Offline cv007

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #79 on: March 12, 2018, 12:42:03 pm »
Quote
The hakko 951 have a clip that slides the tip and colored handle out of the pencil. You then slide in the tip you want. Not tip so much, but a set of colored grippy handles, that live in their own case. Look at some reviews on YT.
Thanks. It looks like the sleeves may be a nicer system as you can get extras inexpensively, and don't even need to grab the hot tip at all.  A few extra sleeves with the most used tips(cartridges?) would make the changes quick and safe.

A nice review (pretty thorough, quite long, but not too boring)
w w w.youtube.com/watch?v=YYZs_pewRd4

A bit higher in price than what I would prefer, but for some reason that is always the case it seems.  The 'user interface' is not great (including the 1970's led display from a wristwatch), but at least the tips should be available for a long time.

Maybe I need just need the iron, and make my own power supply with my own 'user interface'. My idea of a user interface is a power switch, one  2-3" diameter knob that feels like a large rheostat when turned (to set temp), 2ea (each different color) 4 digit 14 segment led's, one to show set temp, the other to show actual temp and any other info via alphanumeric capability. Maybe a push button switch if necessary. All in a nice solid simple box.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 03:45:31 pm by cv007 »
 

Offline rbm

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #80 on: March 12, 2018, 03:51:40 pm »
If the Weller WE1010 uses the same user interface design decisions as were taken in other Weller soldering stations, then at least one press of either the UP or DOWN keys on the console will wake up the iron from temperature setback.  I have both the WRS1001 and WRS1002 stations and this is typical behaviour for them.  There is no acceleration sensor in the handle to sense if the operator picks up the iron (to command the base to bring the tip back up to temperature) so shaking it or waving it in the air will accomplish nothing.
- Robert
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #81 on: March 12, 2018, 08:12:25 pm »
Hakko sponge FAIL. The brass wool is harsh on tips and leaves a mess.

Luckily you have BOTH things then...

The wool stuff is great for removing large blobs of solder from the tip.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #82 on: March 12, 2018, 08:33:16 pm »
The brass wool is harsh on tips
Please show us your proof how the soft brass is damaging the iron plating. I'm sure that the thermal cycling from wet sponges is MUCH gentler.  :palm:

and leaves a mess.
My brass cleaner leaves all the mess neatly inside the Hakko stand, where I can easily empty it out into the trash.  I poke my iron in and out, not brush it across like Dave did.
 

Offline onlyrgu

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #83 on: March 12, 2018, 10:45:20 pm »
I used to have hits for Halloween, But now I'm blindly love with my ES120. Dave I think a comparison video will be awesome!!
 

Offline Maxlor

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #84 on: March 12, 2018, 11:40:46 pm »
I used to have hits for Halloween, But now I'm blindly love with my ES120. Dave I think a comparison video will be awesome!!
I knew that screwdriver was fancy, I didn't know it could solder too!  ;)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #85 on: March 13, 2018, 12:39:01 am »
I still believe that Fluke:
  • lists the measurable range based on the temperature rating of the insulation (so that it does not melt or crack)

Yes, I've seen the insulation on mine start to melt above the max temp.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2018, 12:41:43 am »
Dave, a metcal can be had for 25$ each as I bought them in lots, kept a a couple at home and at work, the rest I sold off. Singles will go for $50. The wands go for $89 as a thermaltronics remake, plus tips are $18 each, original metcal tips were 80hr rated?? of course the sleep stand that will set you back $70 will increase the life a bit. So, total is about $150 or so. Not $100 but a good next step up.

Sorry but 2nd hand stuff does not count for review comparisons.
Potentially thousands of people buy stuff based on my reviews, 2nd hand doesn't cut it.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #87 on: March 13, 2018, 12:44:39 am »
A soldering iron "stick" from a no-name company that has (from many accounts) crap firmware, and is powered from a DC laptop power supply and cable or some other random power source is hardly my idea of a quality soldering station that's worthy of being compared to proper mains soldering stations.

It more than met your price point.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't not meet my requirement of a bench soldering station.
My blog, my rules  :P
 
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Online NANDBlog

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #88 on: March 13, 2018, 01:26:55 am »
A soldering iron "stick" from a no-name company that has (from many accounts) crap firmware, and is powered from a DC laptop power supply and cable or some other random power source is hardly my idea of a quality soldering station that's worthy of being compared to proper mains soldering stations.

It more than met your price point.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't not meet my requirement of a bench soldering station.
My blog, my rules  :P
And what do you think about the T12 that I've linked?
It actually looks quite decent IMHO.
 

Offline Spence

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #89 on: March 13, 2018, 03:50:22 am »
I have the Weller WE1010 and been using it for about 2 mouths now and I'm not really very happy with it. Sure it works just fine but it has a few issues that I feel it really should not have.

1. It is really very slow too heat up and just as slow to recover. I also had to add +25C offset to get it to its set temp.

2. No presets?? WHY??? It would have not costed anymore to add this function to this unit.

3. Wake up from stand by!! Takes for ever if you can get it to do it, so every time you want to wake it up you have to push a button! How much would have it added for them to add switch in the pencil??

4. Ok this is a small one BUT,,,, NO back light??? In the sale photos it looks like the LCD is back lit, but it's not,, why?? at some angels with the lighting that I have I cant see the LCD because of the glare. With a back light this would not be a issue plus it would also be a indicator that the unit is on. Sure I could hack it and add a few 3mm led's but I really should not have to do that at the $115.

But with all that is does solder well and I really do like the pencil though it does get hot when used for a long time,,, because I have to keep the stand by set at 60min.
I may try a Quick just to see how they work..
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #90 on: March 13, 2018, 03:52:51 am »
Weller has the heating element in the sleeve ! That wobbly bit in the middle is just the temperature probe. The actual heater sits in the outer portion.
No chance of breaking the ceramic cartridge with weller.

that being said. The response of the iron is actually good. The hako reacts way too fast.
Here is the problem : Flux takes time to activate and it should be (almost) completely gone by the time you enter the liquid phase of the solder. Heat it too fast and not only will it evaporate too fast , it will spatter , flinging blobs of unactivated flux, and possibly tin , everywhere on the board.

There is nothing worse than having remnants of unactivated flux on the board. it will eat copper over time. People forget that unactivated flux is very corrosive stuff. Activated flux still poses problems. it can be electrically conductive (especially rosin based) , or absorb moisture and saponify (water soluble)

If the iron has too much thermal mass or too fast a response time you will spatter the flux leading to a bad joint.

The right tool for the right job. you don't solder a TQFP with a petrol stoked iron , nor do you solder a TO220 with a microtouch ... ( although you can with the right tip )

Keep in mind that this is an entry level allround soldering iron.  More advanced stations actually know what tip is inserted ( the ones with the active tips where the heating element and sensor are inside the tip and thrown away at end-of-life ) and they adapt their response time appropriately.

As for the hako. Looks like fisher-price.... Sorry. but that colour scheme is just .. wrong for a technical device. Imagine Agilent /keysight having test equipment that looks like that ... it'd look like Tektronix ...

The weller aqua blue is their 'trade dress' just like brown/yellow fluke. weller has used that color since the 60's ...

I'll stick to weller and Ersa any time. The other players are too young.
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Offline Towger

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #91 on: March 13, 2018, 04:37:20 am »
It doesn't matter. It doesn't not meet my requirement of a bench soldering station.
My blog, my rules 

Have a look at the price of a real Hakko FX888D in Europe, it is far from entry level.  Maplin had them for a ripoff €224, reduced to €179 by the liquidator.  https://www.maplin.ie/p/hakko-fx-888d-70w-mains-solder-station-a86uf

€179 is $280 AUD, for that money there is plenty of other choices.
 

Online IanB

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #92 on: March 13, 2018, 04:37:33 am »
There is nothing worse than having remnants of unactivated flux on the board. it will eat copper over time. People forget that unactivated flux is very corrosive stuff. Activated flux still poses problems. it can be electrically conductive (especially rosin based) , or absorb moisture and saponify (water soluble)

Manufacturers describe certain fluxes as "no-clean flux" because it is not essential to clean it off the board after soldering. Appropriately designated fluxes do no harm if left behind.

Quote
If the iron has too much thermal mass or too fast a response time you will spatter the flux leading to a bad joint.

If you splatter the flux you are using too high a temperature. The flux should melt and softly bubble, not splatter or burn.

I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #93 on: March 13, 2018, 04:52:41 am »
There is nothing worse than having remnants of unactivated flux on the board. it will eat copper over time. People forget that unactivated flux is very corrosive stuff. Activated flux still poses problems. it can be electrically conductive (especially rosin based) , or absorb moisture and saponify (water soluble)

Manufacturers describe certain fluxes as "no-clean flux" because it is not essential to clean it off the board after soldering. Appropriately designated fluxes do no harm if left behind.

Provided it is fully activated ! unactivated no-clean is just as bad as , if not worse than , regular flux ...

Quote
If the iron has too much thermal mass or too fast a response time you will spatter the flux leading to a bad joint.
If you splatter the flux you are using too high a temperature. The flux should melt and softly bubble, not splatter or burn.
[/quote]

That is why the temperature on the tip should 'dip'. Look at a reflow curve. there is a time for warmup , an activation time, a ramp to liquid phase , a liquid phase and a cooldown.

The same is true for solder wire. the formulation for the powder flux in solder wire is different from the liquid fluxes out of a pen.
The flux inside hollow core wire can not come out of the wire before the solder has gone liquid !
Liquid flux is added before the solder goes liquid. The flux core comes out once the solder has gone liquid.
I see many times peple mixing fluxes. one type in the core , another type in the pen ... big nono !
You need to stick to the same manufacturer of solder and flux. And you need to use compatible liquid flux that is appropriate for the wire being used.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #94 on: March 13, 2018, 04:57:21 am »
It doesn't matter. It doesn't not meet my requirement of a bench soldering station.
My blog, my rules 

Have a look at the price of a real Hakko FX888D in Europe, it is far from entry level.  Maplin had them for a ripoff €224, reduced to €179 by the liquidator.  https://www.maplin.ie/p/hakko-fx-888d-70w-mains-solder-station-a86uf

€179 is $280 AUD, for that money there is plenty of other choices.

How about Italy ?

https://www.batterfly.com/shop/hakko_fx-888d
 

Online IanB

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #95 on: March 13, 2018, 05:24:57 am »
Manufacturers describe certain fluxes as "no-clean flux" because it is not essential to clean it off the board after soldering. Appropriately designated fluxes do no harm if left behind.

Provided it is fully activated ! unactivated no-clean is just as bad as , if not worse than , regular flux ...

I really don't think so. Activated flux "RA" or "rosin, activated" type is quite corrosive and must be cleaned after soldering. The less active types like "RMA" or plain "R" are less corrosive and can often be left behind.

Quote
The same is true for solder wire. the formulation for the powder flux in solder wire is different from the liquid fluxes out of a pen.
The flux inside hollow core wire can not come out of the wire before the solder has gone liquid !
Liquid flux is added before the solder goes liquid. The flux core comes out once the solder has gone liquid.

I don't have any solder wires with powder flux inside them. In every case it is gel flux, and it runs out of the wire when heated, and before the wire itself has melted. That's why high quality soldering procedures require you to cut off the used end of the solder wire before each new joint and start with a fresh cut end.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #96 on: March 13, 2018, 06:51:21 am »
Manufacturers describe certain fluxes as "no-clean flux" because it is not essential to clean it off the board after soldering. Appropriately designated fluxes do no harm if left behind.

Provided it is fully activated ! unactivated no-clean is just as bad as , if not worse than , regular flux ...

I really don't think so. Activated flux "RA" or "rosin, activated" type is quite corrosive and must be cleaned after soldering. The less active types like "RMA" or plain "R" are less corrosive and can often be left behind.
with 'activated' i mean heated to the point it begins to work. The flux is 'spent' ( not necessarily fully evaporated ) if 'unused' flux remains : that is corrosive. 'used' flux ( flux that can no longer do its work, essentially the leftovers ) is not really corrosive the trouble begins when unused flux is left behind..

Quote
I don't have any solder wires with powder flux inside them. In every case it is gel flux, and it runs out of the wire when heated, and before the wire itself has melted.


same thing. some companies use a gel , some it is a powder like form (Stannol brand or multicore brand)

Quote
That's why high quality soldering procedures require you to cut off the used end of the solder wire before each new joint and start with a fresh cut end.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :-+ :-+ :-+ :-+ 
And how many people know that one ??

The common usage is: cheapest soldering iron , cheapest solder wire , one temperature setting : maximum. And heap on the solder.... Everyone wants a soldering stations and then dials it to maximum... "because it don't heat fast enough" for their liking.













note : he is using ... a Weller... :)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 06:57:40 am by free_electron »
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Offline Towger

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #97 on: March 13, 2018, 07:45:58 am »
Vincent,
What special soldering techniques (if any) are required to insure the reliability of automotive electronics in a zero vacuum environment?
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #98 on: March 13, 2018, 03:03:13 pm »
Vincent,
What special soldering techniques (if any) are required to insure the reliability of automotive electronics in a zero vacuum environment?

None. It worked as well in space as on earth.  >:D
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
« Reply #99 on: March 13, 2018, 09:39:20 pm »
that being said. The response of the iron is actually good. The hako reacts way too fast.
Here is the problem : Flux takes time to activate and it should be (almost) completely gone by the time you enter the liquid phase of the solder. Heat it too fast and not only will it evaporate too fast , it will spatter , flinging blobs of unactivated flux, and possibly tin , everywhere on the board.

Careful, the Metcal fanboys will be livid. Instant heat is their lord and savior  ;D
 


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