Author Topic: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)  (Read 13453 times)

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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2018, 09:51:24 am »
Looks like a pretty decent station, but it's nearly 400$ CAD for the kit with the setback stand. That's similar in price to a Hakko FX951 here. I like the enclosure as well, but I think it might be a bit hard to clean. (yes, I like clean gear).

In my opinion ADS200 outclasses the FX951 in every way which is why I got a couple. Hakko extended their iron length and added a bacteria harboring foamy grip to resolve the heat issues, Pace solved it by building an even more robust aluminum iron with grip. They have a super nice tip to work distance. I looked on the their website the other day and they are now including the aluminum irons TD-100A for their existing Intelliheat series as well.

Cleaning is not going to be an issue, it's polished extruded aluminum and wipe friendly. The channels are for mounting options and you can wipe dust out the back or block them off, they are basically huge heatsinks and designed to bolt accessories on, or under bench and shelving etc.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2018, 10:14:17 am »
Dave gets all this free gear hoarding it for the himself
And there's the crux of the issue: You're jealous and angry that he gets given review samples and you don't.

As for the "hoarding" part. I explain this on my website. I need to keep this stuff in order to do comparative reviews with them. I don't like having 10 scopes and 20 multimeters sitting in my lab, it's actually a PITA and they just gather dust and take up space, they are useless to me personally, I only need one scope and a few meters for myself. But I "hoard" them because when the time comes, I can do a comparative review, or one has a specific feature that is useful in a particular video etc. That's simply the business of a video blogger that does reviews and such.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2018, 10:25:18 am »
The video started comparing 2 products of similar competition based on price mostly.

No need to explain my own video to me, I know exactly what I produced and why I produced. You actually don't know what my intention was.

Quote
If you are really into statistics and as an engineer you should be! 10% is higher that the population density of the US compared to Australia. So effectively more people in Australia based on population density. That was my second and more damning negativity of your review and overall attitude to the people that live in the same country is not well represented and never will according to your 10% remark. So my comment is very well justified.

I have explained my reasons for using US only pricing. You don't have to agree with that, that's fine, but please stop harping on about it, I won't discus this with you any more.

Quote
This is danger of simply jumping on a camera and talking. That you will need to live with. So many time you videos have text over it because you jump to conclusions and that is fine as long as you are happy to accept the negativity as well.

I've been doing this for almost >9 years now, I think I've got it covered, thanks.

Quote
Sometime you put out good stuff, but in my opinion personally is getting worse, but I have come to accept that you are there to make some people laugh at your moderate Australian accent. Just accept that Australians are people and if you do not represent them accurately then you will cop some flack and that is what I am doing. This is the first time I have majorly criticised you in this manner, most of the time I have just been sitting on the sidelines or switching off. But for some strange reason I couldn't ignore this, MEH.

All this over not putting an Oz price in the review, wow, seriously, get over it.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2018, 10:29:31 am »
High $542 price in Australia: Distributor mark-ups are very complicated, especially in Australia and other foreign countries. Mektronics sells the standard ADS200 for $542 Australian dollars which is equivalent to about US$397. Mektronics must ship from US to Australia, an extremely expensive endeavor probably costing thousands. Using the cheapest UPS shipping setting on our website will cost you US$250 for one ADS unit! Plus, add on duty, taxes, Customs etc and voila’! After all is said and done, it wouldn't surprise me if Mektronics made only 20-25% margin on that $542 price. I really don't see it as price gouging. Note that JBC products may not be as expensive to ship since JBC manufactures & ships out of Spain. It’s also possible that Mektronics is getting a special deal or much better discount pricing from JBC. By the way, in Brazil the mark-up is almost 3 times the list price in the US because of taxes and duties!

I've done a video on importing stuff into Australia and the charges involved.
BTW, the JBC is not the same price as the Pace here in Oz, it's only special, heavily discounted. It's normally AU$790


« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 10:46:58 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2018, 11:08:15 am »

My preference is for a single big twisty knob to set the temperature.  Nothing is as fast as that.  A rotary encoder with a big aluminum knob...  (suggestion for the Pace guys!)   However, the up/down buttons are of course acceptable, since there are pre-sets that serve most of the purpose that the twisty knob would (arguably, not as intuitive though).

We've sold several soldering stations with knobs and the problem is ... they don't sell! I like them a lot too. We only have 2 legacy soldering stations that we sell with a control knob, called the ST-25, and that one is only there because the US Military buy a couple hundred a year. The other pone is called the ST 30, and that one will be discontinued soon ... due to lack of sales. Everyone seems to want digital!

Aaron

I didn't mean go back to an analog design...  definitely, we want to keep all the benefits of digital, including the temperature display (thank you for using LEDs instead of LCD, by the way - so much easier to see). 

I simply meant just use a rotary encoder instead of up/down buttons to set the temperature.   That would make the user interface even simpler (replace 2 buttons or 3 buttons with 1 knob).   It is tedious to repeatedly stab buttons to move the temperature up and down, compared to twisting a knob...   --  This is for the suggestion box for future ideas, more than a criticism of the product under discussion! 

Best regards -
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 11:11:05 am by SilverSolder »
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2018, 11:15:18 am »
Dave, I think you've been more than generous with your time trying to straighten out somebody's knickers - but I just see it as another example of the crap anyone gets when they publish anything, but especially an opinion piece on the internet.

Their jealousy is painfully obvious - as is their sense of importance.  Arguing a per capita aspect is just absurd.  Australia might be Lex Luthor's preference for "beach front property" but in the final count, we are a minnow in the world scene - and like it or not, the world we live in today is a global community, not a parochial one.

Dave addresses his audience.  It's that simple.

Some perspective: For every Australian, there are 15 Americans and 290 people in the world who are NOT Australians.  Dave has his membership stats and I'm sure the American/Aussie ratio is a lot greater than 15:1

Final point:  Just because Dave lives and works in Australia doesn't give you the right to try and claim him as the property of and servant to Australians - which is what I what I am sensing.  Dave belongs to the world.

To those who find this grates on their nerves: Get over it.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 11:18:04 am by Brumby »
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2018, 11:24:17 am »
Dave, I think you've been more than generous with your time trying to straighten out somebody's knickers - but I just see it as another example of the crap anyone gets when they publish anything, but especially an opinion piece on the internet.

Yeah, I should probably just stop doing that. I'm probably the only Youtuber dumb enough to spend time trying to correct peoples misconceptions about aspects of my videos one a one-on-one basis. It does take a lot of time.
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2018, 11:45:39 am »
Yeah, I should probably just stop doing that. I'm probably the only Youtuber dumb enough to spend time trying to correct peoples misconceptions about aspects of my videos one a one-on-one basis. It does take a lot of time.

Just make a video on common misconceptions of your videos. You can earn from educating people about yourself. I'm here all day.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2018, 12:11:12 pm »
I simply meant just use a rotary encoder instead of up/down buttons to set the temperature.   That would make the user interface even simpler (replace 2 buttons or 3 buttons with 1 knob).   It is tedious to repeatedly stab buttons to move the temperature up and down, compared to twisting a knob...   --  This is for the suggestion box for future ideas, more than a criticism of the product under discussion! 

I'm an analog control fan as well, there is good and bad things with them. The Pace interface however does it right and the buttons are really responsive. To bounce to say 20C up its effortless, the preset button can also be set like a boost. You don't even need to enter offsets or calibrate, this is huge as you can go from the tiny tips to a monster.

I tend to set a working temp so I'm not having to tweak all the time. As these tips are super easy to swap (and cheap), ideally you should be swapping to a more suitable tip rather than making big adjustments in temp trying to compensate for flow all the time.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2018, 12:27:17 pm »
Finally you have learnt, the first rule of trolls is to ignore them, bating them will only cause grief to yourself.

Maybe I should just ban them?
 
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Offline Uksa007

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2018, 01:31:17 pm »

BTW, the JBC is not the same price as the Pace here in Oz, it's only special, heavily discounted. It's normally AU$790


I'm keen to buy the JBC, any discount codes for Mektronics or Tequipment?
They seem to be on special all over the place, are they running them out for a new model?



 

Offline GigaJoe

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2018, 01:36:47 pm »
about a year ago i had super primitive and crappy soldering station - but i didn't knew it ... accidentally it blows, ( shorted iron on mains :)  )
so I bought  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/-/1507149_32740527077.html; and constructed it in 2 am - it was awesome comparing to old one. Using laptop PSU as  a voltage source it around 60W ( i think consumed around 3.5 A  20V)    the sponge test somehow drops temperature not so much at all ...

so I wonder  if it would be possible to compare that $25 station with  some $500 one , or I'm wrong? (i love $20 multi-meter , by-the-way :)   )

last question:   point to have the transformer VS switching PS.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 01:47:07 pm by GigaJoe »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2018, 04:19:41 pm »
so I wonder  if it would be possible to compare that $25 station with  some $500 one , or I'm wrong? (i love $20 multi-meter , by-the-way :)   )

 

Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2018, 04:48:55 pm »
Wow, took me a bit to wade through mswhin63's little temper tantrum.... Pity I had no pop corn handy.  :popcorn:


I like the physical buttons used on the Pace. I tend to shy away from the dimple buttons made from the front label that you see on some stuff. Real buttons have good tactile feel and don't split and fall apart over time like the bumpy label buttons tend to do.

Those T-slot grooves are pretty nice too, Good for attaching things and attaching the unit to things.


I wonder what these things cost in Japan, maybe I should yell and scream that it wasn't put in the video just for me.... But alas, I just bought a shiny new Hakko FM-206.
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Offline GigaJoe

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2018, 11:59:58 pm »
that  Yihua 936 , with a regular heating element .  But kit I listed above are for Hakko T12 cartridge - much differ it seems.
T12 cartridge looks like 70W maximum ...so ... yeah ...
 

Offline rrinker

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2018, 12:19:28 am »

My preference is for a single big twisty knob to set the temperature.  Nothing is as fast as that.  A rotary encoder with a big aluminum knob...  (suggestion for the Pace guys!)   However, the up/down buttons are of course acceptable, since there are pre-sets that serve most of the purpose that the twisty knob would (arguably, not as intuitive though).

We've sold several soldering stations with knobs and the problem is ... they don't sell! I like them a lot too. We only have 2 legacy soldering stations that we sell with a control knob, called the ST-25, and that one is only there because the US Military buy a couple hundred a year. The other pone is called the ST 30, and that one will be discontinued soon ... due to lack of sales. Everyone seems to want digital!

Aaron

I didn't mean go back to an analog design...  definitely, we want to keep all the benefits of digital, including the temperature display (thank you for using LEDs instead of LCD, by the way - so much easier to see). 

I simply meant just use a rotary encoder instead of up/down buttons to set the temperature.   That would make the user interface even simpler (replace 2 buttons or 3 buttons with 1 knob).   It is tedious to repeatedly stab buttons to move the temperature up and down, compared to twisting a knob...   --  This is for the suggestion box for future ideas, more than a criticism of the product under discussion! 

Best regards -

 :-+

 This, with maybe some way to access presets directly, although since I am really just a hobbyist, I don't really need a whole lot, especially if the encoder knob would use ballistic tracking. Part of the reason I haven't bothered to upgrade the station I currently have is that the replacement model is digital with buttons to set the temp. Mine is an old style analog knob. While I like the digital temp readout (with mine, it's - ehhh, about there seems good), I also am in the habit of, when returning the iron to the stand and knowing there is some time before I need it again, turning the knob down to minimum or near minimum. Never really in such a rush that the couple of seconds it needs to heat back up is an issue. Yes, I know these fancier models auto-detect the iron at rest and do this all for you, but $500 price tags and occasional use as a hobbyist don't really mix. The one I have is a Xytronics, it cost me $49USD 12 years ago, and I'm still using the original tip. I've soldered a fair mix of stuff with it, not just electronics, but I also use proper care. I keep meaning to swap out the tip as with some of the last things I've assembled, a smaller tip would be useful. I have some spares of different sizes, but I always remember I want to change it out AFTER I turn it on. Doh!  :palm: At any rate, I think an encoder coupled with a digital readout (also second LED not LCD) would be an almost ideal product for me.
 

Offline typematrix

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2018, 12:47:46 am »
Define "ducks guts"
 

Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2018, 01:00:49 am »

My preference is for a single big twisty knob to set the temperature.  Nothing is as fast as that.  A rotary encoder with a big aluminum knob...  (suggestion for the Pace guys!)   However, the up/down buttons are of course acceptable, since there are pre-sets that serve most of the purpose that the twisty knob would (arguably, not as intuitive though).

We've sold several soldering stations with knobs and the problem is ... they don't sell! I like them a lot too. We only have 2 legacy soldering stations that we sell with a control knob, called the ST-25, and that one is only there because the US Military buy a couple hundred a year. The other pone is called the ST 30, and that one will be discontinued soon ... due to lack of sales. Everyone seems to want digital!
The curious cat in me wonders what the military is doing needing hundreds of new Pace stations per year! It’s not as though they’re all failing after a year or two! And surely they aren’t expanding their hand-assembly workforce at that pace? (No pun intended!)


I think what people meant is something like what Ersa uses in most of the i-Con models: a rotary encoder.
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2018, 03:11:54 am »

The curious cat in me wonders what the military is doing needing hundreds of new Pace stations per year! It’s not as though they’re all failing after a year or two! And surely they aren’t expanding their hand-assembly workforce at that pace? (No pun intended!)


The US Military has a requirement for about 2000+ of these stations to support a joint service program (Navy, AF, Marine Corps, Coast Guard), but they only buy about 200-400 per year, so we expect to continue to receive orders for them for another 5 or 6 years! They rarely break down or fail because these Military techs only solder once every week, if that. 
 
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2018, 04:25:33 am »
<rant>
I don't mean to be rude but, US companies shoving "Military" (specs or whatever) here and there, all the time, as marketing buzzwords, you guys have no idea how laughable that sounds outside the US...

Also, It seems to me the "(proudly) Made in the USA" (sometimes next to a tiny USA flag) badge must be something you put mainly to proof to your own US citizens you're not outsourcing/offshoring (chinesium), which may be a good thing but, let me tell you, outside the USA, most people nowadays would rather buy something else made in Japan, Germany, Korea, France, the UK, etc, much sooner than one made in the USA, except for a very, very tiny set of top-notch US brands. Everything else, no way!
</rant>
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Offline G0MJW

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2018, 04:26:04 am »
Anyone know how much it costs in the UK and where to get it? Given the usual exchange rate £1=$1 I am guessing £250.

Mike
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2018, 05:29:36 am »
Thanks for the review.   I'm a big fan of Pace.  Been using their products for several years.   I suspect my current Pace will never need to be adjusted for temperature as well.   I do have a few questions that sadly never were answered in Cliffs thread.  Maybe you could help.

For my old Pace, there is a table showing the different tips and a compensation factor for them.   Is this still done?  I wonder if that is the "Temperature Match" you mention.   

Do these new tips require a burn-in?  If so, does the firmware have a burn-in mode?  Burn-in is required (Pace's claim) to increase the life of the heater.    I wonder what the life of these new heater/tip assemblies will be.   

The one problem that I have had with mine is when the NVRAM became corrupt.  This corrupted the password and all the settings.  There is no documentation on Pace's site to recover it.   Happened on a weekend so I could not call anyone.  I had to resort to a bit of reverse engineering to correct it.  I assume from your video, they are still using the same basic technology and nothing prevents this condition from happening.   Do they at least offer a way to recover it now?  Perhaps just a jumper on the main PCB?

At times I use the iron to heat the copper foil enough to breakdown the adhesive so I can remove it.  When I do this, I can end up putting a fair amount of force on the tip as I don't want to apply solder to get a good heat transfer.   My old Pace with the indirect heat is very solid in this regard.  What's you thoughts on how mechanically the new tips are?   

The biggest reason I would have to upgrade at home for my hobby is not the faster heating.  I would like to have a better set of tweezers.   Mine are huge and clumsy.  I really like the ones that came out after mine.   Will the new tweezers for this iron be the same basic design?   When will they become available?   Will the tips basically be double the price for a set? 

Will they offer a dual output station?


Using the BM235 to measure my old Pace's tip temperature.   It's still in cal, or both devices and TC have drifted...
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2018, 05:41:03 am »
<rant>
I don't mean to be rude but, US companies shoving "Military" (specs or whatever) here and there, all the time, as marketing buzzwords, you guys have no idea how laughable that sounds outside the US...

Also, It seems to me the "(proudly) Made in the USA" (sometimes next to a tiny USA flag) badge must be something you put mainly to proof to your own US citizens you're not outsourcing/offshoring (chinesium), which may be a good thing but, let me tell you, outside the USA, most people nowadays would rather buy something else made in Japan, Germany, Korea, France, the UK, etc, much sooner than one made in the USA, except for a very, very tiny set of top-notch US brands. Everything else, no way!
</rant>
Hahahaha what a load of crap!  :-DD

Don't get me wrong: I'm an American living in Europe, I get crap all the time about being American. Europeans hate the US (as a country), but they love American products! It's not to say that Europeans dislike Japanese, German, Korean, French, or UK products, not at all. But to say that they hate American products is absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: And don't get me wrong #2: I'm hardly a flag-waving "patriot". I find most displays of American patriotism to be… in poor taste to put it mildly. But lots of countries put "Made in XXX" on their products. Switzerland does it ALL THE TIME, very often with a little Swiss flag. If I were making a product in USA, I'd put "Made in USA" on it, but I wouldn't say "proudly" and I'd leave off any flags. Just seems tacky to me.

As for mil spec: they put that designation on products because defense suppliers are required to follow those standards. They're real standards (and generally very strict ones), whether you like it or not. And Pace didn't even say mil spec here, they just said that the US military had a very large order from them.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 05:45:31 am by tooki »
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2018, 06:17:00 am »
<rant>
I don't mean to be rude but, US companies shoving "Military" (specs or whatever) here and there, all the time, as marketing buzzwords, you guys have no idea how laughable that sounds outside the US...

Also, It seems to me the "(proudly) Made in the USA" (sometimes next to a tiny USA flag) badge must be something you put mainly to proof to your own US citizens you're not outsourcing/offshoring (chinesium), which may be a good thing but, let me tell you, outside the USA, most people nowadays would rather buy something else made in Japan, Germany, Korea, France, the UK, etc, much sooner than one made in the USA, except for a very, very tiny set of top-notch US brands. Everything else, no way!
</rant>
Hahahaha what a load of crap!  :-DD

Don't get me wrong: I'm an American living in Europe, I get crap all the time about being American. Europeans hate the US (as a country), but they love American products! It's not to say that Europeans dislike Japanese, German, Korean, French, or UK products, not at all. But to say that they hate American products is absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: And don't get me wrong #2: I'm hardly a flag-waving "patriot". I find most displays of American patriotism to be… in poor taste to put it mildly. But lots of countries put "Made in XXX" on their products. Switzerland does it ALL THE TIME, very often with a little Swiss flag. If I were making a product in USA, I'd put "Made in USA" on it, but I wouldn't say "proudly" and I'd leave off any flags. Just seems tacky to me.

As for mil spec: they put that designation on products because defense suppliers are required to follow those standards. They're real standards (and generally very strict ones), whether you like it or not. And Pace didn't even say mil spec here, they just said that the US military had a very large order from them.

I generally like American products right up until I have to deal with the Imperial system. Then I get annoyed and buy something logical. Finding fasteners and the like is an epic pain.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2018, 06:52:56 am »
I generally like American products right up until I have to deal with the Imperial system. Then I get annoyed and buy something logical. Finding fasteners and the like is an epic pain.
At least the US is changing to metric, little by little! (Not that we wanna start another thread about this, it was discussed to death on another thread not long ago.)
 


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