Author Topic: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)  (Read 10633 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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A look at the new low cost $220 Pace ADS200 130W cartridge tip AccuDrive Production Soldering Station
Can it beat the higher priced JBC CD-B station?

7:00 The new 130W TD200 soldering iron pencil
9:34 Teardown
14:18 First Turn On
16:10 Temperature accuracy test
18:06 Setup options
20:58 Burn proof lead test
21:42 Soldering ground plane thermal capacity test vs JBC
25:48 Tip life and iron plating
27:30 General discussion on soldering temperature
30:31 Thermal response test
33:53 Power consumption
35:29 Heater waveform measurement
37:08 Conclusion

https://paceworldwide.com/ADS200/

 
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Offline Uksa007

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 05:38:02 pm »
Seems a bit expensive from the Aussie distrubtor Mektronics, at their price not sure why you wouldn't just buy the JBC?

Pace ADS200 Station 230 VAC with Instant SetBack Tool Stand 8007-0581
$542.86ex

JBC CD-B Solder Station with Standard Handpiece PLUS ROLL OF MULTICORE SOLDER MC334
SKU: JBC-CD-2BE
$547.00ex
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 06:41:42 pm »
So you didn't like it, Bruce?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 08:16:52 pm by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 08:09:52 pm »
Seems a bit expensive from the Aussie distrubtor Mektronics, at their price not sure why you wouldn't just buy the JBC?

Pace ADS200 Station 230 VAC with Instant SetBack Tool Stand 8007-0581
$542.86ex

JBC CD-B Solder Station with Standard Handpiece PLUS ROLL OF MULTICORE SOLDER MC334
SKU: JBC-CD-2BE
$547.00ex

In that case, yeah, JBC for sure, unless you absolutely hated the price of the tips.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 08:11:45 pm »
Dave, Personally you really fucked up this review, low cost for bloody Australian, For Retardistan yes, Not Shitsville. Next time look at Australia before fuxking up the cost of these unit. PACE fucked up have to log on for the price. Piss Poor review

Australia is less than 10% of my audience, I always give prices in US dollars.
You aren't capable of figuring out for yourself if the iron is good value in your own country?
What's wrong with the review apart from not mentioning local prices? What about the 150+ other countries? Is it a crap review because I didn't mention them too?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 08:35:21 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2018, 08:30:56 pm »
All LEDs in the display constantly flashing when you're not using it? How annoying is that? :palm:

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2018, 08:33:37 pm »
All LEDs in the display constantly flashing when you're not using it? How annoying is that? :palm:

A bit. I wold have preferred that the temp simply go down and the display remains as normal.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2018, 09:14:07 pm »
I just got mine today, really impressed with how solidly constructed they are. The iron feels great and the tip to work is perfect. I havn't set them up in place yet but I did some practice flow soldering movements and the iron has got a balanced feel in my hand. I think the length is just right.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 09:20:01 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline PeterL

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 09:18:47 pm »
When pushing the tip in a wet sponge it's surface temperature will in theory drop to 100°C: the temperature of boiling water. While it looks impressive that the temperature shown stays at 350, this actually proves that the temperature doesn't reflect the temperature of the business end very well.

IIRC The JBC dropped quite a lot more (to below 200) when you tested it a while ago. So it seems like JBC measures temperature at the front of the tip, and Pace more to the back.

This would also explain why the JBC is doing so much better when working on the large copper plane. Maybe a thermal cam can show what's going on?

BTW this is also a reason to use brass wool instead of a sponge. Cleaning the tip in water gives it a thermal shock every time you do it.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2018, 10:04:12 pm »
Dave, Personally you really fucked up this review, low cost for bloody Australian, For Retardistan yes, Not Shitsville. Next time look at Australia before fuxking up the cost of these unit. PACE fucked up have to log on for the price. Piss Poor review

Before verbally castrating Dave, you should take a minute to understand one rather relevant consideration...  The greatest audience for the EEVBlog, by country, is the USA.

Dave speaks to his audience.  (However strange that may seem.)

In future, I would suggest you try to be a little less parochial.
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2018, 10:06:56 pm »


Now I have really heard it. That is officially called Marketing Wank. Who care about the country you live in, maybe you should move to the country you market for (Retardistan)


Quote from: EEVblog on Today at 04:11:45
Australia is less than 10% of my audience, I always give prices in US dollars.
You aren't capable of figuring out for yourself if the iron is good value in your own country?
What's wrong with the review apart from not mentioning local prices? What about the 150+ other countries? Is it a crap review because I didn't mention them too?


OK - so you are going to be pig headed about it.

That's a shame.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2018, 10:25:58 pm »
All LEDs in the display constantly flashing when you're not using it? How annoying is that? :palm:

A bit. I wold have preferred that the temp simply go down and the display remains as normal.

Yep. The display should show the set temperature and the power LED should go off to show that it's idle.

When you pick up the iron the display should change to the actual temperature.

Between that and the temperature jumping around, they've totally failed in the firmware for this.
 

Offline lowimpedance

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2018, 10:39:02 pm »
Seems a bit expensive from the Aussie distrubtor Mektronics, at their price not sure why you wouldn't just buy the JBC?

Pace ADS200 Station 230 VAC with Instant SetBack Tool Stand 8007-0581
$542.86ex

JBC CD-B Solder Station with Standard Handpiece PLUS ROLL OF MULTICORE SOLDER MC334
SKU: JBC-CD-2BE
$547.00ex

You should note that the JBC is currently on sale at that price but is normally $790, and dont forget the 10% on top too.

I just got mine today, really impressed with how solidly constructed they are. The iron feels great and the tip to work is perfect. I havn't set them up in place yet but I did some practice flow soldering movements and the iron has got a balanced feel in my hand. I think the length is just right.

Interesting , what motivated you to choose the Pace over say the JBC (if it was on special that is) or a Hakko variant ?.

Between that and the temperature jumping around, they've totally failed in the firmware for this.

 The JBC display is streets ahead in that area.
The odd multimeter or 2 or 3 or 4...or........can't remember !.
 

Online Bud

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2018, 11:08:07 pm »
What is the point in that advantage if you can't see JBC display in the first place because it is badly angled and all it does it reflects the shack lights above it into your eyes.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2018, 11:09:28 pm »
Marketing Wank is a term used by Dave on many occasions. An honest review would be PACE, cheap in US bullshit price in Australia. I have been watching Dave since episode 250 there abouts and slowly over time Dave is no longer the honest reviewer he was at the beginning. He used to provide review for Australia and other places now Marketing has taken him to be selective.


Here is the killer. The JBC CD 2BE is only $549 AUD ex GST, no where near the markup of the Pace. In this case Dave has really been playing Pocket Billiards when it comes to review and should be exposed for such outright crap.

So - point out the pricing issue.  There's no need to go postal over it.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2018, 11:16:43 pm »
Not impressed by this solder iron.
Old technology, of the shelf casing with some cheap looking front and even a freakin' old transformer.
The only thing that stands are the removable tips.

You don't need much more than just an eight pin micro-controller with some extra parts and a PSU to make an very well performing iron station.
It's not so hard to make a PID controller with some optimizations you know.
I even can't be bothered about a LCD screen to be very honest, as long as I can set the temp and know when it's hot.
(what else do you need?)

I find the TS100 and TS80 much more interesting from a technology point of view (the accelerometer is a very smart move).

Not that it matters, I have a feel this is going to be one of these "subjective filled with emotion topics" again.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 11:18:31 pm by b_force »
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2018, 11:19:57 pm »
Marketing Wank is a term used by Dave on many occasions. An honest review would be PACE, cheap in US bullshit price in Australia.

Says the guy from Australia.
What about the UK, Canada, Germany etc, all with the same or bigger audiences than Australia. What about all the other countries?
Should I mention them all, or just Australia to appease you?

Quote
I have been watching Dave since episode 250 there abouts and slowly over time Dave is no longer the honest reviewer he was at the beginning. He used to provide review for Australia and other places now Marketing has taken him to be selective.

Bullshit, I've just come to realise that it's a waste of time trying to point out prices in other countries. There are so many countries, so many distributors, and so many ways to buy stuff (official vs direct import vs grey market), it's just pointless.

What is your problem really?
Why get so uptight about this? The review is the review, you either like the product or you don't. If you like it, check out prices available to you before making your purchase decision.
Like I said, my videos are watched in 150+ countries, what makes you so special that I have to cater to you?

Quote
Here is the killer. The JBC CD 2BE is only $549 AUD ex GST, no where near the markup of the Pace.

Go on you, you did your research, go buy the JBC and quit complaining.

Quote
In this case Dave has really been playing Pocket Billiards when it comes to review and should be exposed for such outright crap.

Consider my myself exposed.
Why don't you start a video blog and do your own "expose" video?

Quote
Quote from: Brumby on Today at 06:06:56
>Quote from: EEVblog on Today at 04:11:45
Australia is less than 10% of my audience, I always give prices in US dollars.
You aren't capable of figuring out for yourself if the iron is good value in your own country?
What's wrong with the review apart from not mentioning local prices? What about the 150+ other countries? Is it a crap review because I didn't mention them too?


OK - so you are going to be pig headed about it.
That's a shame.


It's called being practical. It's stunning that someone can't understand that  :palm:

What next, let's say I put the Oz price at the end of the review, would you complain that I made you watch a 40min review just the find out the Oz price?
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2018, 11:23:41 pm »
What is the point in that advantage if you can't see JBC display in the first place because it is badly angled and all it does it reflects the shack lights above it into your eyes.

I can see mine just fine. YMMV.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2018, 11:23:59 pm »
Dave, Personally you really fucked up this review, low cost for bloody Australian, For Retardistan yes, Not Shitsville. Next time look at Australia before fuxking up the cost of these unit. PACE fucked up have to log on for the price. Piss Poor review

Australia is less than 10% of my audience, I always give prices in US dollars.
You aren't capable of figuring out for yourself if the iron is good value in your own country?
What's wrong with the review apart from not mentioning local prices? What about the 150+ other countries? Is it a crap review because I didn't mention them too?
It would cost you just a couple of minutes to give some ballpark prices for some areas like north America, Europe and Australia.
Of course you don't need to give prices in 150+ countries??
Prices in different countries in these areas are more or less the same anyway.

And yes, that makes a lot of sense. Since why even bother if I need to pay top dollars for something that performs less?
The whole purpose of these kind of videos is to give people a good sense what is around for what price and how it performs.
Otherwise it's kind of a useless video (please don't come with the "than don't watch it" argument)

Don't really get why go into a emotional argument about it, see it as well meant feedback
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 11:25:52 pm by b_force »
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2018, 11:29:00 pm »
The whole purpose of these kind of videos is to give people a good sense what is around for what price and how it performs.
Otherwise it's kind of a useless video (please don't come with the "than don't watch it" argument)

It makes a 40 minute review "kinda useless"? Really?  ::)

« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 12:06:11 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline continuo

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2018, 11:57:06 pm »
wow... that's a big and heavy lump of metal... kind of the harley davidson of soldering stations  ;D

thanks for the review.
 
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Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2018, 12:04:06 am »
The whole purpose of these kind of videos is to give people a good sense what is around for what price and how it performs.
Otherwise it's kind of a useless video (please don't come with the "than don't watch it" argument)

It makes a 40 minute review "kinda useless"? Really?  ::)
If a significant junk of that video is about comparing it to a similar product and the argument "price" is being used?
Yes.

Price is a main factor in a fair objective comparison.
In my opinion a "journalist" has at least the responsibility to do some basic research around to give the reader/viewer a general idea.
If you would write/show a review for the local community I can understand you don't look much further.
But since this is an international YouTube channel, it's a different story.
If selling price are so much different in big parts of the world, it's at least important to mention.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 12:05:51 am by b_force »
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2018, 12:11:37 am »
The whole purpose of these kind of videos is to give people a good sense what is around for what price and how it performs.
Otherwise it's kind of a useless video (please don't come with the "than don't watch it" argument)

It makes a 40 minute review "kinda useless"? Really?  ::)
If a significant junk of that video is about comparing it to a similar product and the argument "price" is being used?
Yes.

Price is a main factor in a fair objective comparison.
In my opinion a "journalist" has at least the responsibility to do some basic research around to give the reader/viewer a general idea.
If you would write/show a review for the local community I can understand you don't look much further.
But since this is an international YouTube channel, it's a different story.
If selling price are so much different in big parts of the world, it's at least important to mention.

The USD price is in the very first line of the video description. Anyone can easily get a ballpark idea of the cost in their country based on this before they even watching a single minute of the video. My videos cater to a technical audience who know very well pricing markups of products in their own country and how they apply to.
Anyone in Australia for example with any clue at all knows about the "Australia Tax", and "well, it likely ain't going to be US$220 equivalent here, I'd better go spend a minute checking local prices before I spend 40 minute watching this review video".

In this case what if the JBC is much cheaper in one region than another? What if I do say 4 typical regions and the price comparison are all different? Do I have to then spend time yapping on about the variations in "value" for each region?
It get messy real quick, hence sometimes I just say US prices as a ballpark and be done with it.

Look, I'm not denying the value of having region prices in review videos, and I do do this occasionally, but sometimes I either forget, or I think it's more trouble than it's worth. e.g. in the pocket multimeter shootout.
In this video, we now have two irons, should I go find the price of both of them in all regions? What if I had three irons? Four?
What about imports or grey market sellers on ebay?

I'll try and do better next time, ok?

Look, let me tell you about the life a Youtuber. We get a lot of feedback, a metric shit ton of feedback. A good lot of it complaining about something. I have countless time done review videos with region pricing in them, and even then I still get people complaining that I didn't mention Amazon, or ebay, or this seller or that seller, or this special etc and "why didn't you put that in the video". Countless times. I know, ok, please cut me some slack and understand that sometimes I just don't fell like doing it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 12:16:32 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2018, 12:26:02 am »
The whole purpose of these kind of videos is to give people a good sense what is around for what price and how it performs.
Otherwise it's kind of a useless video (please don't come with the "than don't watch it" argument)

It makes a 40 minute review "kinda useless"? Really?  ::)
If a significant junk of that video is about comparing it to a similar product and the argument "price" is being used?
Yes.

Price is a main factor in a fair objective comparison.
In my opinion a "journalist" has at least the responsibility to do some basic research around to give the reader/viewer a general idea.
If you would write/show a review for the local community I can understand you don't look much further.
But since this is an international YouTube channel, it's a different story.
If selling price are so much different in big parts of the world, it's at least important to mention.

The USD price is in the very first line of the video description. Anyone can easily get a ballpark idea of the cost in their country based on this before they even watching a single minute of the video. My videos cater to a technical audience who know very well pricing markups of products in their own country and how they apply to.
Anyone in Australia for example with any clue at all knows about the "Australia Tax", and "well, it likely ain't going to be US$220 equivalent here, I'd better go spend a minute checking local prices before I spend 40 minute watching this review video".

Look, I'm not denying the value of having region prices in review videos, and I do do this occasionally, but sometimes I either forget, or I think it's more trouble than it's worth. e.g. in the pocket multimeter shootout.
In this video, we now have two irons, should I go find the price of both of them in all regions? What if I had three irons? Four?
What about imports or grey market sellers on ebay?

I'll try and do better next time, ok?

Look, let me tell you about the life a Youtuber. We get a lot of feedback, a metric shit ton of feedback. A good lot of it complaining about something. I have countless time done review videos with region pricing in them, and even then I still get people complaining that I didn't mention Amazon, or ebay, or this seller or that seller, or this special etc and "why didn't you put that in the video". Countless time. I know, ok, please cut me some slack.
I don't have any issue cutting some slack, no worries.
In fact, if you would have start saying that you tried the best you could, with that right from the beginning, it's clear to people.
I guess the whole point is that people wanna know why.
Maybe mostly because people don't really know what they can trust anymore on Youtube (or in general maybe)

Since we have a great big and wonderful community here, I think it wouldn't be to difficult to ask around what the main distributors are in some parts of the world.
So next time it would be pretty easy and quick to check some resources.
Of course you don't need to give all of them, but by showing a couple gives people at least the idea you did your best to be as objective as possible.
Even with four different products it wouldn't cost much time to quickly find out the prices and give the viewer a certain price range.

In EU for example the ADS200 is also similar priced to JBC, if not more expensive.
From your review I can see that I wouldn't trust this Pace soldering iron if I need to pay the same money more or less.
If it was half the price, that totally changes obviously.

So in the end the conclusion if "it's a killer or not" is also entirely different.
Even if I as a viewer would check my local precis, it puts the whole video in a different perspective in general.
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Online Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2018, 12:26:24 am »
This just in: Certain countries and areas have obnoxious pricing problems. Dave isn't responsible for this. Do your own research, his video is just a small part of your research.
 
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Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2018, 12:30:53 am »
This just in: Certain countries and areas have obnoxious pricing problems. Dave isn't responsible for this. Do your own research, his video is just a small part of your research.
Who is talking about responsibility?
That's irrelevant

You have to agree with the fact that if a product isn't worth buying (or a lot of hassle) in a significant part of the world (for the most of your readers/viewers obviously) it also changes the final verdict of the product.
Or it deserves a side note at least
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Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2018, 12:40:04 am »
You have to agree with the fact that if a product isn't worth buying (or a lot of hassle) in a significant part of the world (for the most of your readers/viewers obviously) it also changes the final verdict of the product.
Or it deserves a side note at least

So, what you are saying is that Dave needs to do a global pricing assessment and include that in product reviews?

Do you realise how impractical that would be?
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2018, 12:44:58 am »
So in the end the conclusion if "it's a killer or not" is also entirely different.

No, it's not.
The only reason I compared two different priced units is because
1) It provides a benchmark (it's the only direct heat iron I have)
and
2) There is a massive thread on the forum asking if this is a "JBC killer" or not.

The answer is (IMO and hence that's all that matters for my videos) is that regardless of price, it's not a JBC killer. "JBC killer" implies similar or better performance, and it clearly doesn't have it. It's simply a cheaper direct heat iron, and like I said in the video, it's better to compare to a similarly priced iron (which I don't have). So basically the comparison ends there, there is no point me going into pricing in different regions for the two units and try and provide some region based "bang-per-buck".
You might have wanted that, and that's fine, but that's not the video I was making.

Now, if I did one with two similar priced units, I'd likely go into detail on region pricing. I just didn't see the point in this video.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2018, 12:45:32 am »
You have to agree with the fact that if a product isn't worth buying (or a lot of hassle) in a significant part of the world (for the most of your readers/viewers obviously) it also changes the final verdict of the product.
Or it deserves a side note at least

So, what you are saying is that Dave needs to do a global pricing assessment and include that in product reviews?

Do you realise how impractical that would be?
I think it was pretty obvious what I meant, and that doesn't include "a whole global pricing assessment" ?

So in the end the conclusion if "it's a killer or not" is also entirely different.

No, it's not.
The only reason I compared two different priced units is because
1) It provides a benchmark (it's the only direct heat iron I have)
and
2) There is a massive thread on the forum asking if this is a "JBC killer" or not.

The answer is (IMO and hence that's all that matters for my videos) is that regardless of price, it's not a JBC killer. "JBC killer" implies similar or better performance, and it clearly doesn't have it. It's simply a cheaper direct heat iron, and like I said in the video, it's better to compare to a similarly priced iron (which I don't have). So basically the comparison ends there, there is no point me going into pricing in different regions for the two units and try and provide some region based "bang-per-buck".
You might have wanted that, and that's fine, but that's not the video I was making.

Now, if I did one with two similar priced units, I'd likely go into detail on region pricing. I just didn't see the point in this video.
More than fair enough.
I just don't really think that came across in the video, because than you wouldn't even mention the price but only focus purely on the quality.
The subject would be more like, "which one is the best when price isn't an issue" or something like that.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 12:50:20 am by b_force »
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2018, 12:56:29 am »
Dave specifically mentioned a low cost iron in competition with JBC. Now my opinion is that as an Australia it is total Bullshit. end of story.

I don't disagree. You could have said that without attacking me.

Quote
Dave gets all this free gear hoarding it for the himself and people like myself who marries a Disabled person before sweeping law make it impossible for us to ever earn enough to buy such stuff, and tell the audience including Australian it is cheap.

I did not tell Australians that it was cheap, I did not mention Australian pricing at all, you are the one that implied that. The $US pricing is in the video title, very clearly. I said it before and I'll say it again, you could have read that and spent a minute checking yourself before watching a 40 minute video and then getting all upset about that I didn't mention the local price.

Quote
Yes I hold a grudge

That is obvious.

Quote
So simply this is my Australian Response and irrespective I call it out as Bullshit, expensive. For Dave and his majority market, well it is cheap.

What's stopping you direct importing it if you are unhappy with local pricing? (a very well known problem in our industry here, as I'm sure you are well aware)
It's AUD$406 (USD$297.81) from Tequipment delivered to Australia.
Are you happy I now did the legwork for you?
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2018, 12:59:48 am »
More than fair enough.
I just don't really think that came across in the video, because than you wouldn't even mention the price but only focus purely on the quality.

I mentioned the price several times. Again, I stuck to US prices because I would have had to research and then explain price comparisons and hence "bang per buck" in various regions. I didn't want to do this, as I deemed it wasn't necessary and was not the intent of the video.
 
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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2018, 01:02:15 am »
I enjoyed the video regardless and have no idea as to why so many people went birko over it, just silly stuff which doesn't benefit anybody.

It appears to be a very nice soldering station but I wouldn't touch it for the same reason I wouldn't touch a Hakko, they went to town with the electronics for temperature stability and consistency and then ended up with a crappy user interface, give it a month and you will need the book again to change one setting, no thanks.
One smart cookie, better make that two for good measure.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2018, 01:06:34 am »
Dave gets all this free gear hoarding it for the himself

And there's the crux of the issue: You're jealous and angry that he gets given review samples and you don't.
 
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Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2018, 01:15:54 am »
Dave gets all this free gear hoarding it for the himself

And there's the crux of the issue: You're jealous and angry that he gets given review samples and you don't.
That's being a bit judgemental, don't you think?

In fact, years ago I even "de-cluttered" and cleaned up/sold most of the stuff except the things I really need and use.
Hoarding and being surrounded by all the gear like we can see in the videos would make me very restless.
More isn't always better for some people.
To be clear, I am NOT saying that it's bad to collect stuff. I am saying that it doesn't automatically means that people are "jealous".

Anyway, offtopic
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 01:17:38 am by b_force »
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Offline helius

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2018, 01:47:21 am »
When pushing the tip in a wet sponge it's surface temperature will in theory drop to 100°C: the temperature of boiling water. While it looks impressive that the temperature shown stays at 350, this actually proves that the temperature doesn't reflect the temperature of the business end very well.

IIRC The JBC dropped quite a lot more (to below 200) when you tested it a while ago. So it seems like JBC measures temperature at the front of the tip, and Pace more to the back.
Several previous Pace stations have a setting with the express purpose of not changing the display when the temperature changes! See the section "Temperature Display Impedance (TDI) Mode" in the ST45 manual: https://uk.rs-online.com/webdocs/0032/0900766b800323e3.pdf
On the ST45 it can be disabled, but this setting does not appear on the ADS200, which makes me suspicious.
 

Offline nixfu

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2018, 02:47:26 am »
Seems like maybe turning the heatsink fins around so they are not poking into the cap might help it last a bit longer maybe.  Can't you just unscrew the heatsink from the  TO, and turn it around?
 

Offline PeterL

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2018, 03:09:36 am »
When pushing the tip in a wet sponge it's surface temperature will in theory drop to 100°C: the temperature of boiling water. While it looks impressive that the temperature shown stays at 350, this actually proves that the temperature doesn't reflect the temperature of the business end very well.

IIRC The JBC dropped quite a lot more (to below 200) when you tested it a while ago. So it seems like JBC measures temperature at the front of the tip, and Pace more to the back.
Several previous Pace stations have a setting with the express purpose of not changing the display when the temperature changes! See the section "Temperature Display Impedance (TDI) Mode" in the ST45 manual: https://uk.rs-online.com/webdocs/0032/0900766b800323e3.pdf
On the ST45 it can be disabled, but this setting does not appear on the ADS200, which makes me suspicious.
Makes sense, that would also explain why the reading suddenly stops jumping around like crazy once it reaches the set temperature.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2018, 03:21:50 am »
Love the heavy metal construction of this unit, including the stand.  It just oozes quality compared to the others.  I like how fast you can change the tips on these cartridge type stations, compared to waiting for the "old tech" to cool off to the point where you can actually touch it.  I have two irons for this reason alone (having two tip sizes "hot" is useful where the pads vary in size).

The lower cost of ownership in the long run is important; it frees up money to buy more electronic stuff, after all.

The firmware "bugs/features" look reasonably easy to fix, hopefully Pace is all over that already.  These days, the "way the software looks" is just as important as the quality of the metals and plastics chosen for the rest of the product.    It is important that the user feels "reassured" while using the product - the display should be telling the user what he expects to see...  not jump all over the place and make him feel as if the product is barely controllable.  Even very cheap Hakko clones with digital display (e.g. Aoyue 937D) have firmware that the user feels "reassured" by while using it, because it responds in a predictable way.  There is definitely a trick to getting the feeling just right...

Is there anything to stop Pace from releasing a "super high performance tip" made of thinner iron and having the sensor further out in the tip, for those that like to pump a lot of heat into ground planes without raising the temperature?



 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2018, 03:28:03 am »
Love the heavy metal construction of this unit, including the stand.  It just oozes quality compared to the others.
It's so funny and interesting how personal taste can differ.
I had the complete opposite feeling when I saw it.
Bodged together with of the shelve parts.
Even the electronics don't look in-house developed.
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2018, 07:17:50 am »
Hi there! I’d like to clarify several points in this thread, some of which I’ve already mentioned on the other EEVBlog “JBC Killer” thread started by Cliff Matthews. We are taking every comment posted on the EEVBlog very seriously. Our engineers have reviewed the various comments and are looking at ways we can enhance your user experience:

PACE’s Take on Dave’s Review: Some at PACE were irritated by some of Dave’s comments and procedures during the first video, but most agree that the second revision was objective, fair and balanced, despite the fact that it is not complementary in many places. We agree with him on many points, both positive and negative. It’s been a tremendous feedback experience which will ultimately benefit the end-user!

ADS200 vs JBC: Comparing the ADS200 to the JBC is like comparing a Prius to a Lexus …. But, as Dave has explained multiple times, we understand there was a massive thread on the forum asking if this is a "JBC killer" or not. For the record, PACE’s goal was not to create a “JBC-Killer” which is a premium soldering station at a premium price for both station and tips. It was to design a powerful production soldering station with a wide variety of inexpensive tips that could withstand the rigors of multi-shift production, yet be inexpensive enough to sell to technicians and engineers who simply cannot afford a premium Metcal or JBC. I think we have succeeded spectacularly, if customer feedback is any indication.

ADS200 Display: We agree that there is no reason for the wacky screen anomalies and overshoot flashes when the tip initially heats up. Also, I’ve always felt the flashing of the display/LED during SetBack was really intrusive, but no customer ever directly complained about it on our previous stations! But now we’re in the age of social media, this type of feedback flows freely, and we get it! I believe these things can be resolved via firmware update, but give us some time to get it together.

Look of the Aluminium (we spell it "Aluminum"): We have been using these custom (not off the shelf) aluminum chassis extrusions since the 90’s. Yeah, old school. Some people think it’s great, some sexy (Dave does!!!) and others think it is ugly and antiquated (I tend to lean towards the last one). But creating a modern and sexy new case would have added at least 3-4 months for tooling, required us to redesign the pcb and a host of other issues. In the end, time-to-market concerns and the fact that the ulta-sturdy case is practically invulnerable to burns, 3 foot drops onto a cement floor and other customer abuse, led us to stay with the proven and rugged old-school extrusions.

High $542 price in Australia: Distributor mark-ups are very complicated, especially in Australia and other foreign countries. Mektronics sells the standard ADS200 for $542 Australian dollars which is equivalent to about US$397. Mektronics must ship from US to Australia, an extremely expensive endeavor probably costing thousands. Using the cheapest UPS shipping setting on our website will cost you US$250 for one ADS unit! Plus, add on duty, taxes, Customs etc and voila’! After all is said and done, it wouldn't surprise me if Mektronics made only 20-25% margin on that $542 price. I really don't see it as price gouging. Note that JBC products may not be as expensive to ship since JBC manufactures & ships out of Spain. It’s also possible that Mektronics is getting a special deal or much better discount pricing from JBC. By the way, in Brazil the mark-up is almost 3 times the list price in the US because of taxes and duties!

“Crappy” User Interface?: I don’t agree. Yes, the display is old-school and basic, but we’re going for utter simplicity here. Just push the Red “UP” button to raise the temp, or Blue “Down” button to decrease the temp. Or use the pre-sets. Try to change the temperature with an FX-951 like that and you’ll get a cryptic set of codes that require you to consult the manual (Rossmann describes it as an "80's alarm clock interface"). The ADS200 unit has much more capability built in if you wish to delve into the set-up mode. But our goal was for a customer to open the box, plug in all in, and be up and running, without a manual, within 2 minutes. Done!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 07:38:07 am by PACE-Worldwide »
 
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Online Bud

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2018, 07:54:56 am »
@PACE
There is nothing wrong with the enclosure. It will not crack, will not yellow with time, will not melt if you drop a hot iron or hot air pencil on it, it is great. :-+
 
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Offline Fsck

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2018, 08:13:46 am »
Looks like a pretty decent station, but it's nearly 400$ CAD for the kit with the setback stand. That's similar in price to a Hakko FX951 here.
I like the enclosure as well, but I think it might be a bit hard to clean. (yes, I like clean gear).
I really dislike the display menu, Doubling the resolution of the display to make it easier to access the menus would've been nice from my point of view.

For the record, I use a metcal stss that I got used off of ebay. The set of tips cost me more than the unit did.

Thicker iron plating is definitely a good thing, never change! JBC tips have abysmal life.
"This is a one line proof...if we start sufficiently far to the left."
 
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Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2018, 08:20:51 am »
Look of the Aluminium (we spell it "Aluminum"): We have been using these custom (not off the shelf) aluminum chassis extrusions since the 90’s. Yeah, old school. Some people think it’s great, some sexy (Dave does!!!) and others think it is ugly and antiquated (I tend to lean towards the last one). But creating a modern and sexy new case would have added at least 3-4 months for tooling, required us to redesign the pcb and a host of other issues. In the end, time-to-market concerns and the fact that the ulta-sturdy case is practically invulnerable to burns, 3 foot drops onto a cement floor and other customer abuse, led us to stay with the proven and rugged old-school extrusions.
Interesting, I have worked for several companies using exactly the same basic aluminium chassis.
Also I have seen it around quite a bit by others.
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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2018, 08:28:57 am »
Yep I agree don't change the box, everyone that knows Pace products is aware they are built like tanks. Check out this photo of an old station with battle scars. The new Pace ADS 200 has some serious curb bench appeal.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2018, 08:37:11 am »
Dave, Personally you really fucked up this review, low cost for bloody Australian, For Retardistan yes, Not Shitsville. Next time look at Australia before fuxking up the cost of these unit. PACE fucked up have to log on for the price. Piss Poor review

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Offline ThunderSqueak

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2018, 09:09:59 am »

ADS200 Display: We agree that there is no reason for the wacky screen anomalies and overshoot flashes when the tip initially heats up. Also, I’ve always felt the flashing of the display/LED during SetBack was really intrusive, but no customer ever directly complained about it on our previous stations! But now we’re in the age of social media, this type of feedback flows freely, and we get it! I believe these things can be resolved via firmware update, but give us some time to get it together.


Figured I would pass it along here, if anyone cares :)

I was discussing firmware in the EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?) youtube comments, as I  noted the chip is in a socket.  Pace just responded to the discussion with this:

========================================

PACE Worldwide-AC
5 hours ago
We send out updated firmware (a 44-Pin PLCC, yep, we're old school) along with a chip puller to anyone requesting it. The latest firmware update is 1.2. It's impossible for us to provide to every customer since we sell 99.8% of our product through authorized distributors, who are very unlikely to send us their customer lists. If you need the the latest 1.2 update, go to PACE's website at www.paceworldwide.com/contact-us and fill out the form.
========================================



How to check the firmware version:
======================
The following instructions should be performed to familiarize the operator with the
system.
1. Place Power Switch in the “OFF” (“0”) position.
2. Press and hold the Program Key ( ) while turning the Power Switch on (“I”
position). Release all keys when the software version is displayed.
======================
My iron returns 1-2, so version 1.2 firmware.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 09:19:32 am by ThunderSqueak »
Currently working with non-binary computing, no reason for it... just doing because I can ^^
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2018, 09:22:38 am »
It's so funny and interesting how personal taste can differ.
I had the complete opposite feeling when I saw it.
Bodged together with of the shelve parts.
Even the electronics don't look in-house developed.

Hmmm, you made me think about what actually makes a product "ooze of quality" for me.

Two things in this case:

1) I was impressed by the cast aluminium fascia, and the cast aluminium part of the stand where you insert the iron...  presumably, the rest of the stand is a casting as well. These all had to be a custom design (even if re-used from other models, for economies of scale).   The only "off the shelf" part might be the extruded piece in the middle, but what benefit would accrue from making your own extruded profiles?  That would be like turning your own screws, bolts, and nuts on a lathe rather than buying them off the shelf...   The engineering design decisions look sound enough to me. 

How often do you see cast metal parts of any kind on a modern product, in this age of minimalism and plastics?  The product stands out for the use of cast metal parts before you even turn it on!

2) Simple user interface.  I feel no need to adjust the PID algorithms, or compensate for air humidity, or anything else...  I want the tip to achieve the set temperature, and stay there...  with a minimum of fuss, other than some indication when energy is being sent to the element (and when the tip is at its setpoint temp), so you have a chance to intuit if something is wrong.  I usually "sense" when a tip is beginning to get a bad sensor or a bad heating element - the pattern no longer looks normal as the station has to jump through hoops to make the tip cooperate.  The station has to "talk" discreetly in use for this reason.

My preference is for a single big twisty knob to set the temperature.  Nothing is as fast as that.  A rotary encoder with a big aluminum knob...  (suggestion for the Pace guys!)   However, the up/down buttons are of course acceptable, since there are pre-sets that serve most of the purpose that the twisty knob would (arguably, not as intuitive though).


 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2018, 09:24:14 am »
Interesting, I have worked for several companies using exactly the same basic aluminium chassis.
Also I have seen it around quite a bit by others.

We've using it since at least the early 90's, so it's not uncommon. They're custom extrusions, lead times are extremely long (we have to order at least 6 months in advance) and we have to buy this material in long sheets that is then cut to size, then anodized. The extrusions end up costing more than a custom stylized metal case would. It was estimated that we could have saved about $7 per ADS if we would have switched to a more conventional sheet metal case. But then the customer would have had to wait another year and the resultant case would not be as ruggedized. As Shock said, the extrusion makes it like a tank! 
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2018, 09:35:16 am »

My preference is for a single big twisty knob to set the temperature.  Nothing is as fast as that.  A rotary encoder with a big aluminum knob...  (suggestion for the Pace guys!)   However, the up/down buttons are of course acceptable, since there are pre-sets that serve most of the purpose that the twisty knob would (arguably, not as intuitive though).

We've sold several soldering stations with knobs and the problem is ... they don't sell! I like them a lot too. We only have 2 legacy soldering stations that we sell with a control knob, called the ST-25, and that one is only there because the US Military buy a couple hundred a year. The other pone is called the ST 30, and that one will be discontinued soon ... due to lack of sales. Everyone seems to want digital!

Aaron
 

Offline ThunderSqueak

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2018, 09:44:14 am »

Look of the Aluminium (we spell it "Aluminum"): We have been using these custom (not off the shelf) aluminum chassis extrusions since the 90’s. Yeah, old school. Some people think it’s great, some sexy (Dave does!!!) and others think it is ugly and antiquated (I tend to lean towards the last one). But creating a modern and sexy new case would have added at least 3-4 months for tooling, required us to redesign the pcb and a host of other issues. In the end, time-to-market concerns and the fact that the ulta-sturdy case is practically invulnerable to burns, 3 foot drops onto a cement floor and other customer abuse, led us to stay with the proven and rugged old-school extrusions.

“Crappy” User Interface?: I don’t agree. Yes, the display is old-school and basic, but we’re going for utter simplicity here. Just push the Red “UP” button to raise the temp, or Blue “Down” button to decrease the temp. Or use the pre-sets. Try to change the temperature with an FX-951 like that and you’ll get a cryptic set of codes that require you to consult the manual (Rossmann describes it as an "80's alarm clock interface"). The ADS200 unit has much more capability built in if you wish to delve into the set-up mode. But our goal was for a customer to open the box, plug in all in, and be up and running, without a manual, within 2 minutes. Done!

I love the metal enclosure, unlike my hakko, I can set things on top of this one such as another iron.  This helps keep more bench space to do actual work.  Thanks you :)

As for the interface, this is one of the reasons I purchased this iron (as well as the price of the tips, and short tip to grip distance).  I just wanted something simple that works. At fist glance at the manual, without really reading it (just looking at the pictures... before delving in) those codes look semi complicated but after actually reading seem useful enough.  I probably will never use most of those settings, leaving them at default but I am happy the option is there should I choose. 

One other thing, I am loving the new hand piece design.  I was an electronics repair tech for 20 years and the last PACE I tried to use consisted of that black plastic that would get extremely hot and is the reason I chose not to buy a pace iron years ago and instead went with weller, and later a hakko.  I am glad you chose to use it on this iron.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 10:03:36 am by ThunderSqueak »
Currently working with non-binary computing, no reason for it... just doing because I can ^^
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2018, 09:51:24 am »
Looks like a pretty decent station, but it's nearly 400$ CAD for the kit with the setback stand. That's similar in price to a Hakko FX951 here. I like the enclosure as well, but I think it might be a bit hard to clean. (yes, I like clean gear).

In my opinion ADS200 outclasses the FX951 in every way which is why I got a couple. Hakko extended their iron length and added a bacteria harboring foamy grip to resolve the heat issues, Pace solved it by building an even more robust aluminum iron with grip. They have a super nice tip to work distance. I looked on the their website the other day and they are now including the aluminum irons TD-100A for their existing Intelliheat series as well.

Cleaning is not going to be an issue, it's polished extruded aluminum and wipe friendly. The channels are for mounting options and you can wipe dust out the back or block them off, they are basically huge heatsinks and designed to bolt accessories on, or under bench and shelving etc.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2018, 10:14:17 am »
Dave gets all this free gear hoarding it for the himself
And there's the crux of the issue: You're jealous and angry that he gets given review samples and you don't.

As for the "hoarding" part. I explain this on my website. I need to keep this stuff in order to do comparative reviews with them. I don't like having 10 scopes and 20 multimeters sitting in my lab, it's actually a PITA and they just gather dust and take up space, they are useless to me personally, I only need one scope and a few meters for myself. But I "hoard" them because when the time comes, I can do a comparative review, or one has a specific feature that is useful in a particular video etc. That's simply the business of a video blogger that does reviews and such.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2018, 10:25:18 am »
The video started comparing 2 products of similar competition based on price mostly.

No need to explain my own video to me, I know exactly what I produced and why I produced. You actually don't know what my intention was.

Quote
If you are really into statistics and as an engineer you should be! 10% is higher that the population density of the US compared to Australia. So effectively more people in Australia based on population density. That was my second and more damning negativity of your review and overall attitude to the people that live in the same country is not well represented and never will according to your 10% remark. So my comment is very well justified.

I have explained my reasons for using US only pricing. You don't have to agree with that, that's fine, but please stop harping on about it, I won't discus this with you any more.

Quote
This is danger of simply jumping on a camera and talking. That you will need to live with. So many time you videos have text over it because you jump to conclusions and that is fine as long as you are happy to accept the negativity as well.

I've been doing this for almost >9 years now, I think I've got it covered, thanks.

Quote
Sometime you put out good stuff, but in my opinion personally is getting worse, but I have come to accept that you are there to make some people laugh at your moderate Australian accent. Just accept that Australians are people and if you do not represent them accurately then you will cop some flack and that is what I am doing. This is the first time I have majorly criticised you in this manner, most of the time I have just been sitting on the sidelines or switching off. But for some strange reason I couldn't ignore this, MEH.

All this over not putting an Oz price in the review, wow, seriously, get over it.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2018, 10:29:31 am »
High $542 price in Australia: Distributor mark-ups are very complicated, especially in Australia and other foreign countries. Mektronics sells the standard ADS200 for $542 Australian dollars which is equivalent to about US$397. Mektronics must ship from US to Australia, an extremely expensive endeavor probably costing thousands. Using the cheapest UPS shipping setting on our website will cost you US$250 for one ADS unit! Plus, add on duty, taxes, Customs etc and voila’! After all is said and done, it wouldn't surprise me if Mektronics made only 20-25% margin on that $542 price. I really don't see it as price gouging. Note that JBC products may not be as expensive to ship since JBC manufactures & ships out of Spain. It’s also possible that Mektronics is getting a special deal or much better discount pricing from JBC. By the way, in Brazil the mark-up is almost 3 times the list price in the US because of taxes and duties!

I've done a video on importing stuff into Australia and the charges involved.
BTW, the JBC is not the same price as the Pace here in Oz, it's only special, heavily discounted. It's normally AU$790


« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 10:46:58 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2018, 11:08:15 am »

My preference is for a single big twisty knob to set the temperature.  Nothing is as fast as that.  A rotary encoder with a big aluminum knob...  (suggestion for the Pace guys!)   However, the up/down buttons are of course acceptable, since there are pre-sets that serve most of the purpose that the twisty knob would (arguably, not as intuitive though).

We've sold several soldering stations with knobs and the problem is ... they don't sell! I like them a lot too. We only have 2 legacy soldering stations that we sell with a control knob, called the ST-25, and that one is only there because the US Military buy a couple hundred a year. The other pone is called the ST 30, and that one will be discontinued soon ... due to lack of sales. Everyone seems to want digital!

Aaron

I didn't mean go back to an analog design...  definitely, we want to keep all the benefits of digital, including the temperature display (thank you for using LEDs instead of LCD, by the way - so much easier to see). 

I simply meant just use a rotary encoder instead of up/down buttons to set the temperature.   That would make the user interface even simpler (replace 2 buttons or 3 buttons with 1 knob).   It is tedious to repeatedly stab buttons to move the temperature up and down, compared to twisting a knob...   --  This is for the suggestion box for future ideas, more than a criticism of the product under discussion! 

Best regards -
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 11:11:05 am by SilverSolder »
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2018, 11:15:18 am »
Dave, I think you've been more than generous with your time trying to straighten out somebody's knickers - but I just see it as another example of the crap anyone gets when they publish anything, but especially an opinion piece on the internet.

Their jealousy is painfully obvious - as is their sense of importance.  Arguing a per capita aspect is just absurd.  Australia might be Lex Luthor's preference for "beach front property" but in the final count, we are a minnow in the world scene - and like it or not, the world we live in today is a global community, not a parochial one.

Dave addresses his audience.  It's that simple.

Some perspective: For every Australian, there are 15 Americans and 290 people in the world who are NOT Australians.  Dave has his membership stats and I'm sure the American/Aussie ratio is a lot greater than 15:1

Final point:  Just because Dave lives and works in Australia doesn't give you the right to try and claim him as the property of and servant to Australians - which is what I what I am sensing.  Dave belongs to the world.

To those who find this grates on their nerves: Get over it.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 11:18:04 am by Brumby »
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2018, 11:24:17 am »
Dave, I think you've been more than generous with your time trying to straighten out somebody's knickers - but I just see it as another example of the crap anyone gets when they publish anything, but especially an opinion piece on the internet.

Yeah, I should probably just stop doing that. I'm probably the only Youtuber dumb enough to spend time trying to correct peoples misconceptions about aspects of my videos one a one-on-one basis. It does take a lot of time.
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2018, 11:45:39 am »
Yeah, I should probably just stop doing that. I'm probably the only Youtuber dumb enough to spend time trying to correct peoples misconceptions about aspects of my videos one a one-on-one basis. It does take a lot of time.

Just make a video on common misconceptions of your videos. You can earn from educating people about yourself. I'm here all day.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2018, 12:11:12 pm »
I simply meant just use a rotary encoder instead of up/down buttons to set the temperature.   That would make the user interface even simpler (replace 2 buttons or 3 buttons with 1 knob).   It is tedious to repeatedly stab buttons to move the temperature up and down, compared to twisting a knob...   --  This is for the suggestion box for future ideas, more than a criticism of the product under discussion! 

I'm an analog control fan as well, there is good and bad things with them. The Pace interface however does it right and the buttons are really responsive. To bounce to say 20C up its effortless, the preset button can also be set like a boost. You don't even need to enter offsets or calibrate, this is huge as you can go from the tiny tips to a monster.

I tend to set a working temp so I'm not having to tweak all the time. As these tips are super easy to swap (and cheap), ideally you should be swapping to a more suitable tip rather than making big adjustments in temp trying to compensate for flow all the time.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2018, 12:27:17 pm »
Finally you have learnt, the first rule of trolls is to ignore them, bating them will only cause grief to yourself.

Maybe I should just ban them?
 
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Offline Uksa007

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2018, 01:31:17 pm »

BTW, the JBC is not the same price as the Pace here in Oz, it's only special, heavily discounted. It's normally AU$790


I'm keen to buy the JBC, any discount codes for Mektronics or Tequipment?
They seem to be on special all over the place, are they running them out for a new model?



 

Offline GigaJoe

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2018, 01:36:47 pm »
about a year ago i had super primitive and crappy soldering station - but i didn't knew it ... accidentally it blows, ( shorted iron on mains :)  )
so I bought  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/-/1507149_32740527077.html; and constructed it in 2 am - it was awesome comparing to old one. Using laptop PSU as  a voltage source it around 60W ( i think consumed around 3.5 A  20V)    the sponge test somehow drops temperature not so much at all ...

so I wonder  if it would be possible to compare that $25 station with  some $500 one , or I'm wrong? (i love $20 multi-meter , by-the-way :)   )

last question:   point to have the transformer VS switching PS.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 01:47:07 pm by GigaJoe »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2018, 04:19:41 pm »
so I wonder  if it would be possible to compare that $25 station with  some $500 one , or I'm wrong? (i love $20 multi-meter , by-the-way :)   )

 

Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2018, 04:48:55 pm »
Wow, took me a bit to wade through mswhin63's little temper tantrum.... Pity I had no pop corn handy.  :popcorn:


I like the physical buttons used on the Pace. I tend to shy away from the dimple buttons made from the front label that you see on some stuff. Real buttons have good tactile feel and don't split and fall apart over time like the bumpy label buttons tend to do.

Those T-slot grooves are pretty nice too, Good for attaching things and attaching the unit to things.


I wonder what these things cost in Japan, maybe I should yell and scream that it wasn't put in the video just for me.... But alas, I just bought a shiny new Hakko FM-206.
Any circuit design must contain at least one part which is obsolete, two parts which are unobtainable, and three parts which are still under development.

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Offline GigaJoe

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2018, 11:59:58 pm »
that  Yihua 936 , with a regular heating element .  But kit I listed above are for Hakko T12 cartridge - much differ it seems.
T12 cartridge looks like 70W maximum ...so ... yeah ...
 

Offline rrinker

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2018, 12:19:28 am »

My preference is for a single big twisty knob to set the temperature.  Nothing is as fast as that.  A rotary encoder with a big aluminum knob...  (suggestion for the Pace guys!)   However, the up/down buttons are of course acceptable, since there are pre-sets that serve most of the purpose that the twisty knob would (arguably, not as intuitive though).

We've sold several soldering stations with knobs and the problem is ... they don't sell! I like them a lot too. We only have 2 legacy soldering stations that we sell with a control knob, called the ST-25, and that one is only there because the US Military buy a couple hundred a year. The other pone is called the ST 30, and that one will be discontinued soon ... due to lack of sales. Everyone seems to want digital!

Aaron

I didn't mean go back to an analog design...  definitely, we want to keep all the benefits of digital, including the temperature display (thank you for using LEDs instead of LCD, by the way - so much easier to see). 

I simply meant just use a rotary encoder instead of up/down buttons to set the temperature.   That would make the user interface even simpler (replace 2 buttons or 3 buttons with 1 knob).   It is tedious to repeatedly stab buttons to move the temperature up and down, compared to twisting a knob...   --  This is for the suggestion box for future ideas, more than a criticism of the product under discussion! 

Best regards -

 :-+

 This, with maybe some way to access presets directly, although since I am really just a hobbyist, I don't really need a whole lot, especially if the encoder knob would use ballistic tracking. Part of the reason I haven't bothered to upgrade the station I currently have is that the replacement model is digital with buttons to set the temp. Mine is an old style analog knob. While I like the digital temp readout (with mine, it's - ehhh, about there seems good), I also am in the habit of, when returning the iron to the stand and knowing there is some time before I need it again, turning the knob down to minimum or near minimum. Never really in such a rush that the couple of seconds it needs to heat back up is an issue. Yes, I know these fancier models auto-detect the iron at rest and do this all for you, but $500 price tags and occasional use as a hobbyist don't really mix. The one I have is a Xytronics, it cost me $49USD 12 years ago, and I'm still using the original tip. I've soldered a fair mix of stuff with it, not just electronics, but I also use proper care. I keep meaning to swap out the tip as with some of the last things I've assembled, a smaller tip would be useful. I have some spares of different sizes, but I always remember I want to change it out AFTER I turn it on. Doh!  :palm: At any rate, I think an encoder coupled with a digital readout (also second LED not LCD) would be an almost ideal product for me.
 

Offline typematrix

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2018, 12:47:46 am »
Define "ducks guts"
 

Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2018, 01:00:49 am »

My preference is for a single big twisty knob to set the temperature.  Nothing is as fast as that.  A rotary encoder with a big aluminum knob...  (suggestion for the Pace guys!)   However, the up/down buttons are of course acceptable, since there are pre-sets that serve most of the purpose that the twisty knob would (arguably, not as intuitive though).

We've sold several soldering stations with knobs and the problem is ... they don't sell! I like them a lot too. We only have 2 legacy soldering stations that we sell with a control knob, called the ST-25, and that one is only there because the US Military buy a couple hundred a year. The other pone is called the ST 30, and that one will be discontinued soon ... due to lack of sales. Everyone seems to want digital!
The curious cat in me wonders what the military is doing needing hundreds of new Pace stations per year! It’s not as though they’re all failing after a year or two! And surely they aren’t expanding their hand-assembly workforce at that pace? (No pun intended!)


I think what people meant is something like what Ersa uses in most of the i-Con models: a rotary encoder.
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2018, 03:11:54 am »

The curious cat in me wonders what the military is doing needing hundreds of new Pace stations per year! It’s not as though they’re all failing after a year or two! And surely they aren’t expanding their hand-assembly workforce at that pace? (No pun intended!)


The US Military has a requirement for about 2000+ of these stations to support a joint service program (Navy, AF, Marine Corps, Coast Guard), but they only buy about 200-400 per year, so we expect to continue to receive orders for them for another 5 or 6 years! They rarely break down or fail because these Military techs only solder once every week, if that. 
 
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2018, 04:25:33 am »
<rant>
I don't mean to be rude but, US companies shoving "Military" (specs or whatever) here and there, all the time, as marketing buzzwords, you guys have no idea how laughable that sounds outside the US...

Also, It seems to me the "(proudly) Made in the USA" (sometimes next to a tiny USA flag) badge must be something you put mainly to proof to your own US citizens you're not outsourcing/offshoring (chinesium), which may be a good thing but, let me tell you, outside the USA, most people nowadays would rather buy something else made in Japan, Germany, Korea, France, the UK, etc, much sooner than one made in the USA, except for a very, very tiny set of top-notch US brands. Everything else, no way!
</rant>
 

Offline G0MJW

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2018, 04:26:04 am »
Anyone know how much it costs in the UK and where to get it? Given the usual exchange rate £1=$1 I am guessing £250.

Mike
Mike
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2018, 05:29:36 am »
Thanks for the review.   I'm a big fan of Pace.  Been using their products for several years.   I suspect my current Pace will never need to be adjusted for temperature as well.   I do have a few questions that sadly never were answered in Cliffs thread.  Maybe you could help.

For my old Pace, there is a table showing the different tips and a compensation factor for them.   Is this still done?  I wonder if that is the "Temperature Match" you mention.   

Do these new tips require a burn-in?  If so, does the firmware have a burn-in mode?  Burn-in is required (Pace's claim) to increase the life of the heater.    I wonder what the life of these new heater/tip assemblies will be.   

The one problem that I have had with mine is when the NVRAM became corrupt.  This corrupted the password and all the settings.  There is no documentation on Pace's site to recover it.   Happened on a weekend so I could not call anyone.  I had to resort to a bit of reverse engineering to correct it.  I assume from your video, they are still using the same basic technology and nothing prevents this condition from happening.   Do they at least offer a way to recover it now?  Perhaps just a jumper on the main PCB?

At times I use the iron to heat the copper foil enough to breakdown the adhesive so I can remove it.  When I do this, I can end up putting a fair amount of force on the tip as I don't want to apply solder to get a good heat transfer.   My old Pace with the indirect heat is very solid in this regard.  What's you thoughts on how mechanically the new tips are?   

The biggest reason I would have to upgrade at home for my hobby is not the faster heating.  I would like to have a better set of tweezers.   Mine are huge and clumsy.  I really like the ones that came out after mine.   Will the new tweezers for this iron be the same basic design?   When will they become available?   Will the tips basically be double the price for a set? 

Will they offer a dual output station?


Using the BM235 to measure my old Pace's tip temperature.   It's still in cal, or both devices and TC have drifted...
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2018, 05:41:03 am »
<rant>
I don't mean to be rude but, US companies shoving "Military" (specs or whatever) here and there, all the time, as marketing buzzwords, you guys have no idea how laughable that sounds outside the US...

Also, It seems to me the "(proudly) Made in the USA" (sometimes next to a tiny USA flag) badge must be something you put mainly to proof to your own US citizens you're not outsourcing/offshoring (chinesium), which may be a good thing but, let me tell you, outside the USA, most people nowadays would rather buy something else made in Japan, Germany, Korea, France, the UK, etc, much sooner than one made in the USA, except for a very, very tiny set of top-notch US brands. Everything else, no way!
</rant>
Hahahaha what a load of crap!  :-DD

Don't get me wrong: I'm an American living in Europe, I get crap all the time about being American. Europeans hate the US (as a country), but they love American products! It's not to say that Europeans dislike Japanese, German, Korean, French, or UK products, not at all. But to say that they hate American products is absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: And don't get me wrong #2: I'm hardly a flag-waving "patriot". I find most displays of American patriotism to be… in poor taste to put it mildly. But lots of countries put "Made in XXX" on their products. Switzerland does it ALL THE TIME, very often with a little Swiss flag. If I were making a product in USA, I'd put "Made in USA" on it, but I wouldn't say "proudly" and I'd leave off any flags. Just seems tacky to me.

As for mil spec: they put that designation on products because defense suppliers are required to follow those standards. They're real standards (and generally very strict ones), whether you like it or not. And Pace didn't even say mil spec here, they just said that the US military had a very large order from them.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 05:45:31 am by tooki »
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2018, 06:17:00 am »
<rant>
I don't mean to be rude but, US companies shoving "Military" (specs or whatever) here and there, all the time, as marketing buzzwords, you guys have no idea how laughable that sounds outside the US...

Also, It seems to me the "(proudly) Made in the USA" (sometimes next to a tiny USA flag) badge must be something you put mainly to proof to your own US citizens you're not outsourcing/offshoring (chinesium), which may be a good thing but, let me tell you, outside the USA, most people nowadays would rather buy something else made in Japan, Germany, Korea, France, the UK, etc, much sooner than one made in the USA, except for a very, very tiny set of top-notch US brands. Everything else, no way!
</rant>
Hahahaha what a load of crap!  :-DD

Don't get me wrong: I'm an American living in Europe, I get crap all the time about being American. Europeans hate the US (as a country), but they love American products! It's not to say that Europeans dislike Japanese, German, Korean, French, or UK products, not at all. But to say that they hate American products is absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: And don't get me wrong #2: I'm hardly a flag-waving "patriot". I find most displays of American patriotism to be… in poor taste to put it mildly. But lots of countries put "Made in XXX" on their products. Switzerland does it ALL THE TIME, very often with a little Swiss flag. If I were making a product in USA, I'd put "Made in USA" on it, but I wouldn't say "proudly" and I'd leave off any flags. Just seems tacky to me.

As for mil spec: they put that designation on products because defense suppliers are required to follow those standards. They're real standards (and generally very strict ones), whether you like it or not. And Pace didn't even say mil spec here, they just said that the US military had a very large order from them.

I generally like American products right up until I have to deal with the Imperial system. Then I get annoyed and buy something logical. Finding fasteners and the like is an epic pain.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2018, 06:52:56 am »
I generally like American products right up until I have to deal with the Imperial system. Then I get annoyed and buy something logical. Finding fasteners and the like is an epic pain.
At least the US is changing to metric, little by little! (Not that we wanna start another thread about this, it was discussed to death on another thread not long ago.)
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #75 on: July 21, 2018, 07:03:09 am »
Anyone know how much it costs in the UK and where to get it? Given the usual exchange rate £1=$1 I am guessing £250.

Mike

Mike,

Go to the www.paceworldwide.com website and go to the top left pull-down menu and then click on "ADS200" or "ADS200 (Instant SetBack)." Or you can go directly to the pages at

Standard: www.paceworldwide.com/products/soldering-stations/digital-control-soldering-systems/ads200-accudrive-production-soldering-station-with-td200

With SetBack Tool Stand: www.paceworldwide.com/products/soldering-stations/digital-control-soldering-systems/ads200-accudrive-station-with-td200-instant-setback-cubby

Once you are on the page, you can register (an incredible hassle, I know) and should be able to view UK pricing in £. But for your edification, here are list prices:

  • ADS200 (230VAC) with Standard Tool Stand PN 8007-0580 : £199 each
  • ADS200 (230VAC) with Instant SetBack (ISB) Tool Stand PN 8007-0581 : £220 each

Please contact our primary local distributor in UK:

Exmel Solutions Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)1698 745058
Fax: +44 (0)1698 749684
Website: www.exmel.co.uk/
Email: info@exmel.co.uk

Or you can buy direct from the paceworldwide.com website (it is shipped from our UK office/warehouse) or you can call Doug Winship or Shaun Dempsey at PACE UK:

PACE Europe, LTD
11 Holdom Avenue
Bletchley, Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire
MK1 1QU, United Kingdom
+44 1908 277666
dwinship@paceworldwide.co.uk
sdempsey@paceworldwide.com

Hope this helps!

Aaron
 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 02:52:35 am by PACE-Worldwide »
 
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Online Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #76 on: July 21, 2018, 07:04:22 am »
I'm assuming that price, shipped from your UK office, is still excluding VAT?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #77 on: July 21, 2018, 08:13:44 am »
Aaron, do you know anything about what the Swiss distributor is doing? Their website doesn’t even list the ADS200 yet. (I’m not reeeeeaally in the market for a new station, but man that thing is sexy!)

This is their page for soldering stations (rework stations have a separate page) https://shop.sibalco.ch/Kategorie/Loetsysteme-34545154
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 08:19:03 am by tooki »
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #78 on: July 21, 2018, 08:15:19 am »
Thanks for the review.   I'm a big fan of Pace.  Been using their products for several years.   I suspect my current Pace will never need to be adjusted for temperature as well.   I do have a few questions that sadly never were answered in Cliffs thread.  Maybe you could help.

For my old Pace, there is a table showing the different tips and a compensation factor for them.   Is this still done?  I wonder if that is the "Temperature Match" you mention.

Your ST-45 is a 15 year old "SensaTemp" controlled system and we still support it with handpiece (PS-90) and tips. But as you suspected, the "Tip Offset Compensation" capability is buried in the "Temperature Match" on the newer stations. We intentionally did that because we no longer have a major need for Tip Offset. Our older plug-in-to-the-heater tips could have a 5 - 70 degree differential between the set and actual temperatures on the really massive PLCC/QFP/Tweezer tips. But with AccuDrive, you'd be hard pressed to see a differential of even 15F on any tip, which meets the ANSI/IPC J-STD-001 industry specification. We include the Temperature Match feature because there are some Engineers out there that want to see absolute dead-nuts temperature accuracy, so we give them the ability to do so. Waste of time in my opinion.

Do these new tips require a burn-in?  If so, does the firmware have a burn-in mode?  Burn-in is required (Pace's claim) to increase the life of the heater.    I wonder what the life of these new heater/tip assemblies will be.

Absolutely no burn-in is required for any of our Tip-Heater Cartridges! The burn-in procedure referred to a burn-in of the heating element not the tip itself. The way a SensaTemp heater is manufactured requires a brass bobbin to be wound with a coated heater wire - the coating burns off upon your first use of the station. The reason for the burn-in was if a customer were to get a brand new solder or desoldering iron and turn it up to max temperature, immediately, there was a minute possibility that you could immediately short out the heat wire ... so rare I never ever burned in my heaters. The initial smell of the coating was horrendous though!

The one problem that I have had with mine is when the NVRAM became corrupt.  This corrupted the password and all the settings.  There is no documentation on Pace's site to recover it.   Happened on a weekend so I could not call anyone.  I had to resort to a bit of reverse engineering to correct it.  I assume from your video, they are still using the same basic technology and nothing prevents this condition from happening.   Do they at least offer a way to recover it now?  Perhaps just a jumper on the main PCB?

Feel free to contact us if you have any technical problems through our www.paceworldwide.com/contact-us page and we'll try to resolve your problem. But in the meantime:

Password Removal  for the ST-45 is as follows (is this what you are talking about?):

1. Power up Power Source while holding the Up/down keys.
2. Release the UP/Down keys when you observe the microprocessor
version, and display will display “EPO” (Enter password).
3. Press Up key.
4. Then Press Down key.
5. Now Press the Black Program key.
6. Press Down key again.
7. Finally Press Up key.

The password is now removed, and program will return to normal operation.

Mechanically, Tip-Heater Cartridges are as robust as the originals, maybe even more so. Generally, the method of tip failure is
- the plating gets worn, and a single pit is generated through the protective iron plating
- Since solder has a solvent effect on pure copper, the pit hollows out the inside of the tip and the plating collapses (or it just stops transferring heat)
- This solvent effect once the copper is exposed is exacerbated by higher temperatures and the use of lead-free solder alloys (they are highly corrosive to the iron plating itself, especially at higher temperatures).

Now you know why we push for the use of SetBack Tool Stands! Excessive Heat + Lead-Free Solder = Premature Tip Failure! The SetBack feature drops the temp to under solder melt, and the tips no longer oxide (a.k.a corrode) ... thus your tips last 3x longer!
 
Keep in mind that man-handling a tip through rigorous use or being heavy handed is likely to cause cracks in the plating, thus causing premature failure of the tip due to the reasons above.

While mechanical failure of the tip cartridge itself is rare, it does happen if you use pliers to remove/replace tips (a real no-no with these types of tips - use the provided "Tip-Tool" or silicon pad) and deform the sides of the stainless steel sheath and crush/damage the ceramic heater interior. Also, I would avoid dropping the tip cartridges from the bench and then stepping on them!!

The biggest reason I would have to upgrade at home for my hobby is not the faster heating.  I would like to have a better set of tweezers.   Mine are huge and clumsy.  I really like the ones that came out after mine.   Will the new tweezers for this iron be the same basic design?   When will they become available?   Will the tips basically be double the price for a set? 

A new AccuDrive-compatible Thermal Tweezer is being develop as we speak, but will not be available until late Fall. They are more like the MT-100 that comes with our MBT 350, but with far more fine control from 0201 components. Tips will be, ahem, expensive but less than anyone else on the market. (Disclaimer: all prices are subject to change  ;))

Will they offer a dual output station?

I kind of doubt it, but we'll have to wait and see. The ADS200 Stacks quite nicely you know ...



Thanks for your questions ... Hope this helps!

Aaron
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #79 on: July 21, 2018, 08:18:14 am »
I'm assuming that price, shipped from your UK office, is still excluding VAT?

You know, I'm not up to speed on VAT, but I can find out from Doug Winship at PACE UK. I suspect it excludes VAT.

Aaron
 

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #80 on: July 21, 2018, 08:24:13 am »
Aaron, do you know anything about what the Swiss distributor is doing? Their website doesn’t even list the ADS200 yet. (I’m not reeeeeaally in the market for a new station, but man that thing is sexy!)

This is their page for soldering stations (rework stations have a separate page) https://shop.sibalco.ch/Kategorie/Loetsysteme-34545154

Sibalco is a long-time distributor for PACE. I'll ask Neil Manson, European Regional Sales Manager to give Sibalco a call to push them to update their site! Surprises me that Farnell isn't listed, as they're a key PACE distributor in Europe.

Aaron
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 08:43:14 am by PACE-Worldwide »
 
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Offline helius

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2018, 08:32:00 am »
I have a ST45 as well. I haven't got an ADS200 yet, but I think I know some of those answers.

For my old Pace, there is a table showing the different tips and a compensation factor for them.   Is this still done?  I wonder if that is the "Temperature Match" you mention.

It seems that the intent is the same, but the implementation is significantly different. In a SensaTemp system like the ST45, there is an offset temperature adjustment to compensate for the larger thermal resistance between the platinum RTD and the tip surface with large SMD tips. When using small chisel tips you just leave the offset at 0.
With the Intelliheat cartridges, the sensor technology is different. Instead of an offset adjustment, there is a calibration step where you enter the temperature reading from a thermometer. The station only uses this adjustment until the cartridge is removed, when it is cleared. (The calibration procedure uses the same button presses as the burn-in procedure on the SensaTemp stations.)
The ADS200 Temperature Match is not an offset, but just an option from 0 to 3. Pace has not yet published the manual for how this mode works or how to use it. I suppose that when the larger SMD tips and the tweezer tool are released, this mode will become relevant.

Quote
Do these new tips require a burn-in?  If so, does the firmware have a burn-in mode?  Burn-in is required (Pace's claim) to increase the life of the heater.    I wonder what the life of these new heater/tip assemblies will be.
The burn-in procedure was used for the SensaTemp type handpieces like the PS90 which has a heater assembly. The cartridge tips do not have a burn-in mode.

Quote
At times I use the iron to heat the copper foil enough to breakdown the adhesive so I can remove it.  When I do this, I can end up putting a fair amount of force on the tip as I don't want to apply solder to get a good heat transfer.   My old Pace with the indirect heat is very solid in this regard.  What's you thoughts on how mechanically the new tips are?
I think that the cartridge tips are not going to be as rugged when abused like this. Even though the tip-to-grip distance is short, there is a significantly longer lever arm from the tip to the support point compared to the PS90. The cartridge tips are also not held as stiffly from the side, since there is no grub screw. I would be interested to hear suggestions from PACE.

edit: I was too slow, looks like your questions have already been answered from the horse's mouth.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 08:35:14 am by helius »
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2018, 09:23:03 am »
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions.   It's been a few years since the password problem.  I posted the procedure I came up with here which is a bit more intrusive:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/pace-sodrtek-st-45-factory-reset/msg812698/#msg812698

Is there a similar recovery procedure documented for the new irons as well? 

My tweezers are like having two PS90s in your hand.  With the tips you offer, I can remove some very large parts with them quickly.  Anymore I use them mostly for 1206 and smaller two leaded parts but wonder will the new tweezers offer such a wide assortment of tips?     If not, is it possible to drive the old tweezers with the new controller?   
 
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Offline sibeen

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #83 on: July 21, 2018, 10:23:05 am »
Define "ducks guts"

Ducks guts = awesome, great etc.

Oz slang.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #84 on: July 21, 2018, 11:00:17 am »
Aaron, do you know anything about what the Swiss distributor is doing? Their website doesn’t even list the ADS200 yet. (I’m not reeeeeaally in the market for a new station, but man that thing is sexy!)

This is their page for soldering stations (rework stations have a separate page) https://shop.sibalco.ch/Kategorie/Loetsysteme-34545154

Sibalco is a long-time distributor for PACE. I'll ask Neil Manson, European Regional Sales Manager to give Sibalco a call to push them to update their site! Surprises me that Farnell isn't listed, as they're a key PACE distributor in Europe.

Aaron
Indeed!

That said, Farnell doesn't list the ADS200 yet, either… :/
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #85 on: July 21, 2018, 11:17:49 am »
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions.   It's been a few years since the password problem.  I posted the procedure I came up with here which is a bit more intrusive:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/pace-sodrtek-st-45-factory-reset/msg812698/#msg812698

Is there a similar recovery procedure documented for the new irons as well? 

My tweezers are like having two PS90s in your hand.  With the tips you offer, I can remove some very large parts with them quickly.  Anymore I use them mostly for 1206 and smaller two leaded parts but wonder will the new tweezers offer such a wide assortment of tips?  If not, is it possible to drive the old tweezers with the new controller?

Hi Joe,

We have a document for recovery of all old & new power supplies, but it looks like it hasn't been updated for the ADS200 (see attached pdf file). I'm pretty sure it's the same procedure as for "IntelliHeat Systems" but I'll make sure it is updated.

You have the older TT-65 ThermoTweez handpiece which was designed to remove larger chips and large 4-sided components. It's not very ergomonic and it can get very hot if used continuously. The newer Thermal Tweezer will be more like our current MT-100 (see www.paceworldwide.com/products/handpieces/tweezers/mt100-minitweez-surface-mount-rework-tweezer-handpiece) and will use identically shaped tips ... but it will not be compatible with the IntelliHeat or SensaTemp Handpieces. The reason is that the new Tweezer tips use a completely different voltage (16VAC) and sensor system than older units and is thus not compatible. But there will be 11 tips (with identical tip configurations as the current MT-100 Tip selection), and one additional fine point set of tips for 0201 chips.

Hope this helps,

Aaron

 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #86 on: July 21, 2018, 11:39:40 am »
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions.   It's been a few years since the password problem.  I posted the procedure I came up with here which is a bit more intrusive:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/pace-sodrtek-st-45-factory-reset/msg812698/#msg812698

Is there a similar recovery procedure documented for the new irons as well? 

My tweezers are like having two PS90s in your hand.  With the tips you offer, I can remove some very large parts with them quickly.  Anymore I use them mostly for 1206 and smaller two leaded parts but wonder will the new tweezers offer such a wide assortment of tips?  If not, is it possible to drive the old tweezers with the new controller?

Hi Joe,

We have a document for recovery of all old & new power supplies, but it looks like it hasn't been updated for the ADS200 (see attached pdf file). I'm pretty sure it's the same procedure as for "IntelliHeat Systems" but I'll make sure it is updated.

You have the older TT-65 ThermoTweez handpiece which was designed to remove larger chips and large 4-sided components. It's not very ergomonic and it can get very hot if used continuously. The newer Thermal Tweezer will be more like our current MT-100 (see www.paceworldwide.com/products/handpieces/tweezers/mt100-minitweez-surface-mount-rework-tweezer-handpiece) and will use identically shaped tips ... but it will not be compatible with the IntelliHeat or SensaTemp Handpieces. The reason is that the new Tweezer tips use a completely different voltage (16VAC) and sensor system than older units and is thus not compatible. But there will be 11 tips (with identical tip configurations as the current MT-100 Tip selection), and one additional fine point set of tips for 0201 chips.

Hope this helps,

Aaron

Yes, it can get hot and is hard to handle on small parts.  0805 is about the smallest I will use it on.  It's a bit of a pain from the standpoint I have to swap between the two hand sets and they take time to come up to temp.  Again, it's just for a hobby. 

I use the MT100 and it is a very nice tool.   I am glad to hear the new tweezers will offer the same tips.  Is the cost of ownership for the new tweezers basically a wash with the MT100?   

I've been eyeing the MBT 301 for home and basically wondering if a two ADS200 stations with the new tweezers would be more cost effective?         

That document would have saved me a fair bit of time hacking my iron.  I searched your website for anything that would help and did not find anything.  Is this something that the company has recently decided to make public?   I could understand in production not wanting to allow workers to adjust the iron and assumed it was not disclosed for this reason.  By the time I could have called Pace, I had already hacked it and moved on, but this doc could really be a life saver.   Even with people buying old Pace tools that were locked.   So big thanks releasing it.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 11:47:09 am by joeqsmith »
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Offline deepfryed

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #87 on: July 21, 2018, 04:51:56 pm »
Hi,

I hate people giving Dave grief for what appears to be bad sales strategy or treating Australians as second class consumers (which is pretty prevalent). Given it's on sale in the US for around $220, assuming the retailer / distributor makes a pretty penny off that adding a generous 40% overhead for import duties, taxes, shipping etc still brings the unit prices to $410AUD.

Charging close to $600 is plain greed, it's not Dave's fault. It just shows how little Pace care about making their product available in a market for a reasonable price (including overhead) and the greed or inefficiency of the supply chain of their distributor(s).

Thanks for the video Dave, my wife might find your voice annoying but I still love your videos - they got me into hobby electronics. Keep them coming. Kind of miss fundamentals Fridays, more of those please when you have time.

Pace, you can do better than this.

 

Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #88 on: July 21, 2018, 06:16:33 pm »
I've been eyeing the MBT 301 for home and basically wondering if a two ADS200 stations with the new tweezers would be more cost effective? 

That is what I am aiming for with my two ADS200.  I can just use two irons or swap one to the tweezers when they come out. Based on Paces past systems I expect they will eventually roll Accudrive technology into the larger stations but this could be years away. I've got my eyes on a few other Pace handpieces as well they do a really good desoldering tool the SX-100.

These are my two spanking new ADS200 here.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline PA4TIM

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #89 on: July 21, 2018, 07:33:51 pm »
Quote
Pace wrote:  Also, I would avoid dropping the tip cartridges from the bench and then stepping on them!!
 
 :-DD

Quote
Shock wrote:  they do a really good desoldering tool the SX-100.
l

Nice set of twins.

After using several other desolder tools, I bought the SX100 for my MBT250 about a year ago (professional repair-work everyday use). I desolder a lot, really a lot. There are days I do over 200 desolder joints. My SX-70(?) was not bad but needed the very thin tube tips and I needed a better more powefull one. I did not know I could use the SX100.
Then I made the mistake to retire my MBT (but keep it as backup) and bought 2 Metcal stations. It performed not better as the SX-70 but there must be a (expensive) tip eating monster in there. When the normal handpiece died for the second time (the desolder handpiece was already replaced after a few months) I started using the Pace again. I mailed Pace if there was a better desolder handpiece for my (>25 year old) MBT and some questions about overhauling the pump and about tips. They immediately answered all my questions and so I bought a SX-100 with a bunch of tips sets and checked the pump, that turned out to be as new (as the Pace man expected) The Metcals went through a few membrames in 2 years)

Now after a year of (ab)use. The SX-100 is still going strong, tips last a very decent time, but who cares, they are dead-cheap, and you can drop them and jump on them if that is your thing...  :)

One weak point of the SX100 is the rubber around the tips. The tips have a trumpet shape end that damages the (luckily cheap) rubber because I use about 8 sizes of tips and switch between them all the time (that is several times a day). I cut of the trumpet and and it did not negative influence the working (I think it improved) but now the rubber lasts.

An other "problem", the thing sucks so freakin'hard that you must not cut a pin first and then remove the rest of the pin with the SX-100 because it sucks the pin with so much force it gets stuck in the tip. 

To be short, the SX100 really sucks, but in a good way  :-+

The tweezers do indeed get hot and are not great for SMD small parts. I now use two normal hand-pieces for that but I would like some microtweezers


« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 07:36:44 pm by PA4TIM »
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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #90 on: July 21, 2018, 09:14:49 pm »
The SX-100 is still going strong, tips last a very decent time, but who cares, they are dead-cheap, and you can drop them and jump on them if that is your thing...  :)

Yes I noticed tequipment had a selection pack of 8 Pace tips for the SX-100 (6993-0288-P1) for about $57 with discount. So that is about 8 bucks a tip which is a steal.

I'm jealous, if I was to have my choice of Pace gear it would be an MBT 350 station with an SX-100 and  TJ-70. For the 3rd tool undecided but I want to have a channel spare if I need it. Then after that ultimately a ST 325 hot air with a PH 100 IR Preheater, I do not have decent preheating so yeah I have to use workarounds.

I saw a ST 325 go for around $300 on Ebay the other day and forgot about it.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline giosif

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #91 on: July 21, 2018, 10:11:49 pm »
Wondering if there is any trade-in program at Pace for the ADS200.
Would be tempted to give up my Hakko FX888D, if that would get me a good discount on the price for the ADS200.
 

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #92 on: July 22, 2018, 12:42:50 am »
Yes, That is called ebay  >:D
www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
www.schneiderelectronicsrepair.nl  repair of test and calibration equipment
http://www.youtube.com/user/pa4tim my youtube channel
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #93 on: July 22, 2018, 02:24:25 am »
I've been eyeing the MBT 301 for home and basically wondering if a two ADS200 stations with the new tweezers would be more cost effective? 

That is what I am aiming for with my two ADS200.  I can just use two irons or swap one to the tweezers when they come out. Based on Paces past systems I expect they will eventually roll Accudrive technology into the larger stations but this could be years away. I've got my eyes on a few other Pace handpieces as well they do a really good desoldering tool the SX-100.

These are my two spanking new ADS200 here.

Not too much bench space going this route.   I don't do enough desoldering to justify anything other than a sucker.  Same with the heat gun.  I will just stick with my old Weller.
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #94 on: July 22, 2018, 03:04:13 am »

One weak point of the SX100 is the rubber around the tips. The tips have a trumpet shape end that damages the (luckily cheap) rubber because I use about 8 sizes of tips and switch between them all the time (that is several times a day). I cut of the trumpet and and it did not negative influence the working (I think it improved) but now the rubber lasts. Front Seal failure


We're working on that silicone SX-100 Front Seal. It was sourced ages ago and we are looking for a more durable and heat resistant material. Interesting that the desoldering tip works as well after cutting off the fluted (trumpet-shaped) end of the stainless transfer tube. The fluted end is definitely a major source of damage to the Front Seal. During all of our tests, a straightened tube resulted in a significant increase in solder clogs. Maybe we should rethink? Hmmm ...

Thanks for the comments.

Aaron
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #95 on: July 22, 2018, 03:07:01 am »
Wondering if there is any trade-in program at Pace for the ADS200.
Would be tempted to give up my Hakko FX888D, if that would get me a good discount on the price for the ADS200.

Not at this time. We usually work with a local distributor to advance promotions such as these.
 

Offline FlyingHacker

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #96 on: July 22, 2018, 03:44:56 am »

The curious cat in me wonders what the military is doing needing hundreds of new Pace stations per year! It’s not as though they’re all failing after a year or two! And surely they aren’t expanding their hand-assembly workforce at that pace? (No pun intended)

Like anything government run they have a budget that they must spend every year, because if they don’t spend the whole budget then their budget will be reduced. So they spend it all Willy-nilly and then ask for more money the next year. The inefficiency of self-preservation....
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 04:39:58 am by FlyingHacker »
--73
 
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Offline chris_leyson

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2018, 03:54:06 am »
Not ADS200 related but is there a quieter air pump, rotary instead of diaphram, available for the ST75 ? I want to convert one of my ST75's so I can use the TJ-85 hot air pencil. Also, can I retrofit an ST115 front panel and electronics to the ST75.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 04:00:13 am by chris_leyson »
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2018, 04:18:04 am »
So they spend it all Willy-nilly and then ask for more money the next year.

LOL :-DD (but sadly, it's true)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 09:14:04 am by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
 

Offline PA4TIM

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #99 on: July 22, 2018, 04:32:42 am »

We're working on that silicone SX-100 Front Seal. It was sourced ages ago and we are looking for a more durable and heat resistant material. Interesting that the desoldering tip works as well after cutting off the fluted (trumpet-shaped) end of the stainless transfer tube. The fluted end is definitely a major source of damage to the Front Seal. During all of our tests, a straightened tube resulted in a significant increase in solder clogs. Maybe we should rethink? Hmmm ...

Thanks for the comments.

Aaron

Yes, There is sometimes solder clogging without the flute, I can not remember if that also was the case before I modded the tips. But before that I had to empty the tube much more often and had to clean or replace the felt-filter in the tube more often, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day while there was not a lot of solder in there. That was sprayed with solder and flux, that was more work as removing the clogged solder. Now I have a Z shaped piece of metal clamped  just before the felt filter. It is bizar how well it still sucks with the tube almost full.

There is a simple solution for the rubber, (I think) If you make the part of the tip that is in the heater a bit longer so the thick part of the tip also presses on the front side of the seal. That way you have an extra and much better sealing. And an even better thermal resistance because of the increased mass.

But I think I desolder a bit more as average because of the sort of repair work I do.
www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
www.schneiderelectronicsrepair.nl  repair of test and calibration equipment
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Offline G0MJW

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #100 on: July 22, 2018, 04:43:41 am »
You know I would really just prefer a number. When a retail price, including tax and shipping isn't readily available, without me having to go and find it, or worse have to email to ask, I am not interested.

So thanks for the prices. There will be VAT to add I assume.

Mike
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 04:46:46 am by G0MJW »
Mike
 

Offline giosif

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #101 on: July 22, 2018, 04:59:02 am »
Wondering if there is any trade-in program at Pace for the ADS200.
Would be tempted to give up my Hakko FX888D, if that would get me a good discount on the price for the ADS200.

Not at this time. We usually work with a local distributor to advance promotions such as these.

Ok. Thanks for the prompt response!


Yes, That is called ebay  >:D

Hehe... That's probably going to be my next step.
 
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #102 on: July 22, 2018, 05:02:51 am »
You know I would really just prefer a number. When a retail price, including tax and shipping isn't readily available, without me having to go and find it, or worse have to email to ask, I am not interested.

So thanks for the prices. There will be VAT to add I assume.

Mike

The UK office contacted me back and said VAT is +20% ... egads!

Aaron
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #103 on: July 22, 2018, 05:42:55 am »

Yes, There is sometimes solder clogging without the flute, I can not remember if that also was the case before I modded the tips. But before that I had to empty the tube much more often and had to clean or replace the felt-filter in the tube more often, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day while there was not a lot of solder in there. That was sprayed with solder and flux, that was more work as removing the clogged solder. Now I have a Z shaped piece of metal clamped  just before the felt filter. It is bizar how well it still sucks with the tube almost full.

There is a simple solution for the rubber, (I think) If you make the part of the tip that is in the heater a bit longer so the thick part of the tip also presses on the front side of the seal. That way you have an extra and much better sealing. And an even better thermal resistance because of the increased mass.

But I think I desolder a bit more as average because of the sort of repair work I do.

Nice image!
 
We've tested this same type of design previously, and there were 2 big issues: First of all, we try to isolate the heater front the handle as much as possible, because of heat build-up - this type of direct contact causes the front portion of the grip to heat-up considerably. An overly hot handle is something we try to avoid at all costs.

The second issue we ran into was Front Seal failure. The main failure mechanism of the current Front Seal is where the fluted end of the tube goes through the hole in the seal. The heat transferred into the seal hole makes it much more brittle and it starts to widen. Then cracks form around the hole and you lose vacuum. With normal use, the Front Seal may last a year or more, but in heavy use, or when you switch out tips frequently, it may last only 2 months. When we used a direct contact method, the entire middle part of the seal (where it had direct contact with the back end of the tip) became brittle, the hole widened, and the seal against the Solder Collection Chamber was lost. This seal only lasted a couple of weeks.

But I think it's a good idea to re-examine the fluting of the tip's stainless steel interior tube.  Maybe a combination of cutting the tube and higher temp silicone will do the trick.

Aaron
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #104 on: July 22, 2018, 11:25:08 pm »
Quote
Pace wrote:  Also, I would avoid dropping the tip cartridges from the bench and then stepping on them!!
 
 :-DD

Now after a year of (ab)use. The SX-100 is still going strong, tips last a very decent time, but who cares, they are dead-cheap, and you can drop them and jump on them if that is your thing...  :)
Are you admitting you've jumped on Pace cartridges? Maybe they should employ you as a European beta-tester :scared:
 

Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #105 on: July 23, 2018, 12:49:59 am »
Are you admitting you've jumped on Pace cartridges? Maybe they should employ you as a European beta-tester :scared:

Some of those SX-100 tips are pretty meaty, I wouldn't like to step on this one in bare feet.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Online Hydron

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #106 on: July 23, 2018, 04:29:13 pm »

The UK office contacted me back and said VAT is +20% ... egads!

Aaron
~20% is standard in the EU (prices for products not aimed at B2B normally include it by default though). The bigger problem is that normally the EU(/UK) price is the US price changed directly to EUR/GBP without taking into account for the greater per-unit value of the currency. _THEN_ VAT is added. (PACE hasn't quite done this here - pre-VAT UK price is still more expensive than the US price but by more like 20%, not by the normal 30%+).
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #107 on: July 23, 2018, 07:20:28 pm »
That is what I am aiming for with my two ADS200.  I can just use two irons or swap one to the tweezers when they come out. Based on Paces past systems I expect they will eventually roll Accudrive technology into the larger stations but this could be years away. I've got my eyes on a few other Pace handpieces as well they do a really good desoldering tool the SX-100.

These are my two spanking new ADS200 here.


Do they stack on top of each other, as Dave hypothesized?
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #108 on: July 23, 2018, 08:45:09 pm »
Do they stack on top of each other, as Dave hypothesized?

Good question.
 

Offline Nusa

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #109 on: July 23, 2018, 09:01:36 pm »
Do they stack on top of each other, as Dave hypothesized?

Good question.

There's a picture of them stacked here. Scroll down some.
https://paceworldwide.com/ADS200/
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #110 on: July 23, 2018, 09:11:29 pm »
There's a picture of them stacked here. Scroll down some.
https://paceworldwide.com/ADS200/
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 10:05:46 pm by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
 

Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #111 on: July 23, 2018, 09:17:43 pm »
Do they stack on top of each other, as Dave hypothesized?

Yes they do. They also have mounting slots on the top and sides so you can attach the stand/cubby or brackets to mount under shelves or desk. You could also bolt them together with a few bucks of hardware either side by side, or onto your desk etc if you wished.

They softened the edges on the metal work, and the case and stand have a good weight to them so they don't move unless you want them to.



Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #112 on: July 23, 2018, 09:47:40 pm »
There's a picture of them stacked here. Scroll down some.
https://paceworldwide.com/ADS200/
It's valid, their host hasn't moved to TLS 1.3 yet, would you mind not being a Royal PITA for just a day?
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #113 on: July 23, 2018, 10:14:45 pm »
They do the things at their pace.

Get back under your bridge.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #114 on: July 24, 2018, 10:17:11 am »
So Ersa see my video and want to get in on part of the review action and want a comparison with the Pace. They then proceed to dictate terms and conditions of the review  :-DD
http://www.eevblog.com/reviews/
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #115 on: July 24, 2018, 10:18:48 am »
Yes they do. They also have mounting slots on the top and sides so you can attach the stand/cubby or brackets to mount under shelves or desk.

I like that idea!
They should supply the brackets and instructions for that.
 

Offline helius

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #116 on: July 24, 2018, 10:43:24 am »
The mounting brackets are an optional spare part, 1321-0609-P1. The same part is used for the ST and MBT series stations. The part is around $20.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #117 on: July 24, 2018, 11:52:57 am »
So Ersa see my video and want to get in on part of the review action and want a comparison with the Pace. They then proceed to dictate terms and conditions of the review  :-DD
http://www.eevblog.com/reviews/
That is so shortsighted of them, especially given how well their products perform for a “traditional” separate tip and heater arrangement.
 

Offline PA4TIM

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #118 on: July 24, 2018, 08:35:13 pm »
The MBT has slots on the side so You can mount the handpiece stands to the unit. I see the ADS stands have the holes. Does the ADS have side-slots too ?
www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
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Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #119 on: July 24, 2018, 09:16:24 pm »
The MBT has slots on the side so You can mount the handpiece stands to the unit. I see the ADS stands have the holes. Does the ADS have side-slots too ?

You can see the side slots on the image below. The Tool Stand comes with hardware to attach it to either side of the unit, but most people leave it free standing.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #120 on: July 26, 2018, 10:42:41 pm »
Interesting , what motivated you to choose the Pace over say the JBC (if it was on special that is) or a Hakko variant ?.

Sorry I missed this. I wanted to put together a custom built station with a good high performance iron. So I excluded many irons comparing the upkeep cost, quality, look etc. When I saw the Pace ADS200 I really liked the iron and what they had done to improve on their previous model (which was sort of like the Metcal iron I was looking at).

I mainly wanted a station easy to repair if ever, with a low consumable cost (doesn't everyone) and that won't become obsolete quickly. Pace has a super long product and series life cycle so I knew I'd be ok there. It ticked every check box on it's own while other brands didn't.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 12:31:32 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline G0MJW

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #121 on: July 28, 2018, 06:37:08 pm »
You know I would really just prefer a number. When a retail price, including tax and shipping isn't readily available, without me having to go and find it, or worse have to email to ask, I am not interested.

So thanks for the prices. There will be VAT to add I assume.

Mike

The UK office contacted me back and said VAT is +20% ... egads!

Aaron

Things are often a lot more expensive in the UK and then we have the VAT on top. With the £ worth so little at the moment I think I will wait until next in the US.
Mike
 

Offline GlowingGhoul

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #122 on: July 30, 2018, 02:43:41 pm »
<rant>
I don't mean to be rude but, US companies shoving "Military" (specs or whatever) here and there, all the time, as marketing buzzwords, you guys have no idea how laughable that sounds outside the US...

Also, It seems to me the "(proudly) Made in the USA" (sometimes next to a tiny USA flag) badge must be something you put mainly to proof to your own US citizens you're not outsourcing/offshoring (chinesium), which may be a good thing but, let me tell you, outside the USA, most people nowadays would rather buy something else made in Japan, Germany, Korea, France, the UK, etc, much sooner than one made in the USA, except for a very, very tiny set of top-notch US brands. Everything else, no way!
</rant>

I'm an American, have travelled extensively, and lived in various countries in Europe and elsewhere. You do not speak for anyone but yourself. No one elected you representative. I've encountered types like you, typically middle aged men. You are bitter, eager to make a petty assault on a nation you clearly have an issue with. Whatever disappointments are gnawing at you, they weren't caused by the U.S.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #123 on: July 31, 2018, 09:13:58 am »
Yeah, if anything, I'm preeeetty sure Poland (GeorgeOfTheJungle's country according to his forum profile) got a little help from USA a while back, which could be why Poland is the most pro-USA country in Europe by far.

Source
 

Offline aromring

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #124 on: August 11, 2018, 03:09:56 pm »
An electrolytic capacitor placed very close, no actually _touching_, the most significant heat sources? It will dry out in a relatively short time and then bye, bye soldering station! Unless the owner knows how to replace capacitors (which should be the case). If it were a mass market product then I would say this must be a clear case of planned obsolescence, like the one I've discovered in one Philips DVD player (see https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/10-days-of-anguish-the-story-of-my-first-major-not-so-trivial-repair-of-consumer-electronics.127336/ for details). But in this case I'd say it must be the effect of piss-poor board design. If I bought this station the first thing I'd do would be unsoldering and moving the capacitor to another location.
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #125 on: August 11, 2018, 10:15:56 pm »
TL;DR

Repairs an 11 year old DVD player smps for a cute coworker. 2 days to replace caps and find dead diode. Showed her but was still broken. Took 7 more days to find damage he did himself. Didn't get the girl or money for repair. Blames planned obsolescence. Irony is DVD player is obsolete.

Now suffering PTSD.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #126 on: August 12, 2018, 08:38:06 am »
“Planned obsolescence”: the rallying cry of anti-corporate or anti-capitalist crusaders who don’t understand the concept of designing down to a cost (i.e. making something affordable by eliminating costs that only extend the lifespan beyond the amount of time the device is expected to be used anyway).
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #127 on: August 12, 2018, 10:39:15 am »
An electrolytic capacitor placed very close, no actually _touching_, the most significant heat sources? It will dry out in a relatively short time and then bye, bye soldering station! Unless the owner knows how to replace capacitors (which should be the case). If it were a mass market product then I would say this must be a clear case of planned obsolescence, like the one I've discovered in one Philips DVD player (see https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/10-days-of-anguish-the-story-of-my-first-major-not-so-trivial-repair-of-consumer-electronics.127336/ for details). But in this case I'd say it must be the effect of piss-poor board design. If I bought this station the first thing I'd do would be unsoldering and moving the capacitor to another location.
Do you own the product? I've opened mine and no, it was not touching the 105c Nippon Chemi-Con el-cap. The regulator dissipation does not vary and the el-cap in question is just above the air convection intake (clearly the coldest part of the aluminum enclosure). At 126VAC mains (ANSI +5%) I measured the tab of the regulator at 85c (~80c @120v). So I decided to use a larger heat sink I had in stock and was satisfied with just 50c at 126VAC (47c @120v).

Pace may consider a larger heat sink, but a small plastic shroud may be enough. They have my pics and findings - Cheers!
 
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Offline gabinetex

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #128 on: August 13, 2018, 04:59:36 am »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.
Nice mod, though.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #129 on: August 13, 2018, 05:03:32 pm »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.

Pace has been making production stations like this for decades, so they are increasingly looking... the same. But this one is blue with better accuracy, calibration free and a very comfy improved cool iron. Plus they lowered the price to make them more affordable.

You can make up all the stories you like but they work great. I've done several difficult repair jobs since receiving mine and they virtually paid for themselves before they even got through the door.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline gabinetex

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #130 on: August 14, 2018, 12:02:03 am »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.
they virtually paid for themselves before they even got through the door.

oh, I see. I suspected that much.
 

Offline gabinetex

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #131 on: August 14, 2018, 01:23:07 am »
In any case, if I were you, I would do some "pre-emptive" repair in the station itself, and install a bigger heatsink to the regulator as some other people have already done...  perhaps even a small fan if you live in a hot climate?
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #132 on: August 14, 2018, 01:55:28 am »
In any case, if I were you, I would do some "pre-emptive" repair in the station itself, and install a bigger heatsink to the regulator as some other people have already done...  perhaps even a small fan if you live in a hot climate?
Why do you appear to troll? 6 of your 8 posts are from after you bought a used JBC AD2700.. How's that working out?

I'm not trying to be rude, but Pace has dedicated 50+ years of "Heart" to nothing less than the art of soldering and they actually appear here and comment on the forum. They make a side-step into the mid-tier market with some execution flaws they readily talk about, and all you can do is shoot like it's hay-day in the wild-west.

FWIW, they're weighing-out solutions, but they communicate and care. Tell us please.. what company gives service like we've seen at MikesRadioRepair? (and read viewer comments below the video..)

 
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Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #133 on: August 14, 2018, 02:09:57 am »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.
they virtually paid for themselves before they even got through the door.

oh, I see. I suspected that much.
Do you even understand what it means for an object to pay for itself?
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #134 on: August 14, 2018, 03:39:18 am »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.
they virtually paid for themselves before they even got through the door.

oh, I see. I suspected that much.

I own about a dozen irons and stations from over the last 40 years or so. The first Pace station I used was about 30 years ago. Since then I've worked on gear anywhere up to several hundred thousand bucks in value.

One of the secrets to making as much money as you want in electronics, find something that is broken cheap and repair it. It's a sellers market over here as well due to Australia tax, I've noticed similar in the UK although some local items are cheaper there than here.

The point I'm getting at is, even though I can buy all the junk I like, I'd rather prefer to throw my savings into other more important things. I choose to buy something not just because of the price but because it's good value and going fit a purpose.

I knew the ADS200 was going to do exactly what I wanted (and fit the purpose). You may feel the same way about your JBC AD2700 or have decided to pulled the trigger on the JBC BT2BWA because you like the knobs, and that is ok to.

Now all those are facts, "it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit" is fiction.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 05:34:04 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #135 on: August 14, 2018, 04:22:31 am »
In any case, if I were you, I would do some "pre-emptive" repair in the station itself, and install a bigger heatsink to the regulator as some other people have already done...  perhaps even a small fan if you live in a hot climate?

If Pace thinks it's an issue they will sort it out.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline gabinetex

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #136 on: August 14, 2018, 04:35:26 am »

Why do you appear to troll? 6 of your 8 posts are from after you bought a used JBC AD2700.. How's that working out?
I'm not entirely trolling, there are places on earth with much warmer ambient temperature than Canada (I assume you live there). A fan might actually help... just saying.
Quote
I'm not trying to be rude, but Pace has dedicated 50+ years of "Heart" to nothing less than the art of soldering and they actually appear here and comment on the forum. They make a side-step into the mid-tier market with some execution flaws they readily talk about, and all you can do is shoot like it's hay-day in the wild-west.
I'm sorry , I didn't mean to disrespect your soldering iron. You forgot to mention that it's also made in the USA, which is in fact the real reason  you've been telling everyone to buy this station all over the place over the last few months...
(even before you had the chance to try it out for yourself)... I mean, the internet is a big place, but I seem to find your posts telling people to buy Pace everywhere... here, on youtube.  Was it you chastising Louis Rossmann  on his youtube channel for not promoting American products?... Yeah, it was.
If you want to buy American (regardless of the quality) and think everyone else should do the same, just say so. Let's not pretend there is any other reason.
Quote
FWIW, they're weighing-out solutions, but they communicate and care. Tell us please.. what company gives service like we've seen at MikesRadioRepair? (and read viewer comments below the video..)
No idea, but I rather have a station that pumps heat at the iron tip, not at some internal heatsink. Nevermind their customer service.
 

Offline gabinetex

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #137 on: August 14, 2018, 04:53:18 am »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.
they virtually paid for themselves before they even got through the door.

oh, I see. I suspected that much.

I own about a dozen irons and stations from over the last 40 years or so. The first Pace station I used was about 30 years ago. Since then I've worked on gear anywhere up to several hundred thousand bucks in value.

It's a sellers market over here as well due to Australia tax, I've noticed similar in the UK although some local items are cheaper. One of the secrets to making as much money as you want in electronics find something that is broken cheap and repair it.

The point I'm getting at here is I choose to buy something not because of the price, because I can buy all the junk I want and I would much rather throw my savings into other more important things. I buy something because it's good value and going fit a purpose.

I knew the ADS200 was going to do exactly what I wanted. You may feel the same way about your JBC AD2700 or have decided to pulled the trigger on the JBC BT2BWA because you like the knobs, and that is ok to.

Now all those are facts, "it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit" is fiction.

Agreed. I was just indulging in a bit of "soldering iron tribalism".
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #138 on: August 14, 2018, 06:22:45 am »
..it's also made in the USA, which is in fact the real reason  you've been telling everyone to buy this station all over the place over the last few months...
That's quite presumptuous of you to know me so well.. maybe now we can be buddies and you might want to think about contributing to EEVblog sometime. FWIW, I'm semi-retired and have wanted to own a good station for ages. I've known about Pace since working for Telefunken in the 70's. As as a kid, I'd buy PE and PM mags when they were in the small format (likely long before you were born).
Who knows my reasons, maybe I'm irritated at cheap Asian fakes and shit-ass quality and want to MAGA even though I live in Canada? Maybe lot of reasons, maybe I'm now beholden to one of the truest companies that felt good-will enough to surprise an old fart with something free that he can pack in his casket when he finally breaths his last resin fumes.. whatever.
I know this much, I used my station all day yesterday at 370c and nothing but the tip ever got hot, while my arthritis has never been better after holding this little beast for over 2 hours total.

And that is where the rubber meets the road..
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #139 on: August 14, 2018, 06:29:47 am »
If you want to buy American (regardless of the quality) and think everyone else should do the same, just say so. Let's not pretend there is any other reason.

Made in the USA (when the company means it) they are trying to keep their business and community employed as much as possible rather than outsourcing the entire operation to China or wherever and living fat. Sure it's national pride if you live in the US, I'm not from the US but it's a more noble cause than buying crap on Alibaba I know that.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 06:31:35 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #140 on: August 14, 2018, 06:34:16 am »
I know this much, I used my station all day yesterday at 370c and nothing but the tip ever got hot, while my arthritis has never been better after holding this little beast for over 2 hours total.

Funny you mention that because I did a rather aggressive test and I couldn't get it hot either. I have a sneaking suspicion some math was used.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #141 on: August 14, 2018, 10:40:49 am »
I'm sorry , I didn't mean to disrespect your soldering iron. You forgot to mention that it's also made in the USA, which is in fact the real reason  you've been telling everyone to buy this station all over the place over the last few months...
(even before you had the chance to try it out for yourself)... I mean, the internet is a big place, but I seem to find your posts telling people to buy Pace everywhere... here, on youtube.  Was it you chastising Louis Rossmann  on his youtube channel for not promoting American products?... Yeah, it was.
If you want to buy American (regardless of the quality) and think everyone else should do the same, just say so. Let's not pretend there is any other reason.
Wow, it takes a special kind of stupid to accuse both an Australian and a Canadian of only choosing this item because of national pride for a made-in-USA product.  :-DD |O :clap:
 
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Offline omglol

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #142 on: August 19, 2018, 07:49:05 pm »
Sorry to interrupt the chat.

I am buying the ADS200, but cannot decide if it is worth buying ISB Tool Stand or not? How does the software SetBack timer work? If the temperature of the tip does not change by some amount in some time, the MCU assumes the tool is idle and lowers the temperature?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #143 on: August 19, 2018, 08:30:01 pm »
Sorry to interrupt the chat.

I am buying the ADS200, but cannot decide if it is worth buying ISB Tool Stand or not? How does the software SetBack timer work? If the temperature of the tip does not change by some amount in some time, the MCU assumes the tool is idle and lowers the temperature?
I don’t own a Pace myself, but what you describe is exactly how the auto setback on my Ersa i-Con nano works. (When at the setback temp, putting the tip into the brass wool cleaner causes a temperature drop, too, telling it “wake up!”.) It’s not bad, but the one downside is that when it’s decided to begin the drop down to setback and is in the cool off phase, then attempting to use it won’t wake it up, because it’s expecting the temp to drop. A true setback-sensing stand or handle would avoid this problem, and so if I were buying something now, I’d get it with the ISB stand.
 

Offline omglol

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #144 on: August 19, 2018, 08:51:06 pm »
I currently own ERSA i-con 1, which has accelerometer built into handle, so as soon as you pick it up (after being idle) it starts heating up. But my ERSA broke down, so I am looking for a replacement.

However, looking at ADS200 user manual, (software) SetBack time can only be set in intervals of tens of minutes, so the lowest possible setting is 10 minutes, which kind of makes it unusable? It would be nice if Pace changed this in firmware so you could also set it to 1 minute, for example.


https://www.paceworldwide.com/sites/default/files/ads200operationmanual816.pdf

 

Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #145 on: August 20, 2018, 03:01:54 am »
However, looking at ADS200 user manual, (software) SetBack time can only be set in intervals of tens of minutes, so the lowest possible setting is 10 minutes, which kind of makes it unusable? It would be nice if Pace changed this in firmware so you could also set it to 1 minute, for example.

Definitely not unusable, it's only 10 mins and if you clean and tin your tips after completing a section of soldering it shouldn't matter that much. But a good question for Aaron from Pace.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline omglol

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #146 on: August 21, 2018, 07:55:40 am »
Yeah, it would be nice if Aaron could comment on this. :)
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #147 on: August 22, 2018, 01:57:26 am »
I am buying the ADS200, but cannot decide if it is worth buying ISB Tool Stand or not? How does the software SetBack timer work? If the temperature of the tip does not change by some amount in some time, the MCU assumes the tool is idle and lowers the temperature?

Sorry to interrupt the chat.

I am buying the ADS200, but cannot decide if it is worth buying ISB Tool Stand or not? How does the software SetBack timer work? If the temperature of the tip does not change by some amount in some time, the MCU assumes the tool is idle and lowers the temperature?

Hi Guys,

To answer some of your questions about our programmable Auto SetBack feature in ADS200, the feature was never intended to provide an instant idling capability as our ISB (Instant SetBack) Tool Stand does. It’s more of a safety feature intended to shut down the iron when a user goes to lunch or a meeting. If enabled, it also triggers the AutoOff feature, which cuts power to the handpiece, preventing users from leaving a hot iron on overnight or over the weekend.

Auto SetBack uses the internal tip sensor to perceive a period of inactivity (it must not vary more than ±10°F/C) and will set its Tip Temperature to a lower set point after a selectable period of inactivity (from 10-90 minutes in 10-minute increments). Unfortunately, the sensing of inactivity can be affected by many external factors that prevent SetBack from engaging: air conditioning, any type of fan or wind blowing near the iron, the tip accidentally touching an object, a fume extractor functioning nearby … even the shape of a tip can affect whether or not Auto SetBack properly engages. For example, very low mass fine point tips have always proved more difficult to reliably engage the Auto SetBack feature properly: they tend to trigger SetBack even in use because the tips require very little energy to keep running at a steady-state temperature, so the power supply perceives that the iron is inactive. In the case of some of the very large mass tips, the opposite may occur – the iron never engages the SetBack mode. This is because the front of the tip is at a steady ±2°F/C from set temp when it is idle in the Tool Stand, but the sensor is actually seeing a swing fluctuation of over ±10°F/C, striving to keep it at a steady state. I’m not saying the the Auto SetBack feature is unreliable, because in 95+% of all situations, it works perfectly. But I’ve seen enough of the exceptions to know that the better solution is the ISB Instant SetBack Tool Stand, which uses a simple switch to turn on/off SetBack.

The 10 minute increments are intended to simplify operation of the unit. At one point in time, we had a SetBack timer that was programmable in increments of 1 minute intervals, but that scheme was abandoned when customers complained that setting the unit to 1 minute resulted in false alarms when using certain tips. When I set up my ADS200, I use a SetBack setting of 90 minutes and 90 minutes for AutoOff. This assures me the unit will go turn itself off within 3 hours, just in case I leave it on by mistake.

Why didn’t we build an accelerometer into the handle of the TD-200 Iron? We looked at this and cost considerations came up (handle tooling was crazy expensive & complicated), and most other methods required us to add a wire to the Iron’s cord, making it thicker and less flexible. Since there have been customer issues with the flexibility of our cords, we opted for the tried and true ISB Tool Stand, which avoids thickening of the cord. 

All in all, if you are truly interested in saving tip life, it’s a good investment to buy the ADS200 with ISB Stand.

Bestest,

Aaron
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #148 on: August 22, 2018, 12:47:55 pm »
The 10 minute increments are intended to simplify operation of the unit. At one point in time, we had a SetBack timer that was programmable in increments of 1 minute intervals, but that scheme was abandoned when customers complained that setting the unit to 1 minute resulted in false alarms when using certain tips. When I set up my ADS200, I use a SetBack setting of 90 minutes and 90 minutes for AutoOff. This assures me the unit will go turn itself off within 3 hours, just in case I leave it on by mistake.

Why do time increments have to be linear?  If I was programming something like that, I might have a sequence that might look like: 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 30, 45, 60, 90, 120 minutes (just an example).
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #149 on: August 22, 2018, 11:15:38 pm »
Why do time increments have to be linear?  If I was programming something like that, I might have a sequence that might look like: 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 30, 45, 60, 90, 120 minutes (just an example).

Not specific to this setting but in general unless it is detrimental to the user, configuration should be as flexible as practically possible. That way you keep everyone happy.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #150 on: November 16, 2018, 02:40:29 pm »
I guess no one's posting to this thread anymore.. but since it's linked to the YT video, I thought it would be nice to redirect to the main thread. This covers firmware updates, Pace responses to questions, and other little niggles (as Dave calls them..)

Edit - I wonder if Dave upgraded his station firmware to 1.4 yet, I never saw 'hide nor hair' of it in his moving videos..  :-//
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 02:54:03 pm by Cliff Matthews »
 

Offline scopeman

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #151 on: November 16, 2018, 03:16:23 pm »
Hi there! I’d like to clarify several points in this thread, some of which I’ve already mentioned on the other EEVBlog “JBC Killer” thread started by Cliff Matthews. We are taking every comment posted on the EEVBlog very seriously. Our engineers have reviewed the various comments and are looking at ways we can enhance your user experience:

PACE’s Take on Dave’s Review: Some at PACE were irritated by some of Dave’s comments and procedures during the first video, but most agree that the second revision was objective, fair and balanced, despite the fact that it is not complementary in many places. We agree with him on many points, both positive and negative. It’s been a tremendous feedback experience which will ultimately benefit the end-user!

ADS200 vs JBC: Comparing the ADS200 to the JBC is like comparing a Prius to a Lexus …. But, as Dave has explained multiple times, we understand there was a massive thread on the forum asking if this is a "JBC killer" or not. For the record, PACE’s goal was not to create a “JBC-Killer” which is a premium soldering station at a premium price for both station and tips. It was to design a powerful production soldering station with a wide variety of inexpensive tips that could withstand the rigors of multi-shift production, yet be inexpensive enough to sell to technicians and engineers who simply cannot afford a premium Metcal or JBC. I think we have succeeded spectacularly, if customer feedback is any indication.

ADS200 Display: We agree that there is no reason for the wacky screen anomalies and overshoot flashes when the tip initially heats up. Also, I’ve always felt the flashing of the display/LED during SetBack was really intrusive, but no customer ever directly complained about it on our previous stations! But now we’re in the age of social media, this type of feedback flows freely, and we get it! I believe these things can be resolved via firmware update, but give us some time to get it together.

Look of the Aluminium (we spell it "Aluminum"): We have been using these custom (not off the shelf) aluminum chassis extrusions since the 90’s. Yeah, old school. Some people think it’s great, some sexy (Dave does!!!) and others think it is ugly and antiquated (I tend to lean towards the last one). But creating a modern and sexy new case would have added at least 3-4 months for tooling, required us to redesign the pcb and a host of other issues. In the end, time-to-market concerns and the fact that the ulta-sturdy case is practically invulnerable to burns, 3 foot drops onto a cement floor and other customer abuse, led us to stay with the proven and rugged old-school extrusions.

High $542 price in Australia: Distributor mark-ups are very complicated, especially in Australia and other foreign countries. Mektronics sells the standard ADS200 for $542 Australian dollars which is equivalent to about US$397. Mektronics must ship from US to Australia, an extremely expensive endeavor probably costing thousands. Using the cheapest UPS shipping setting on our website will cost you US$250 for one ADS unit! Plus, add on duty, taxes, Customs etc and voila’! After all is said and done, it wouldn't surprise me if Mektronics made only 20-25% margin on that $542 price. I really don't see it as price gouging. Note that JBC products may not be as expensive to ship since JBC manufactures & ships out of Spain. It’s also possible that Mektronics is getting a special deal or much better discount pricing from JBC. By the way, in Brazil the mark-up is almost 3 times the list price in the US because of taxes and duties!

“Crappy” User Interface?: I don’t agree. Yes, the display is old-school and basic, but we’re going for utter simplicity here. Just push the Red “UP” button to raise the temp, or Blue “Down” button to decrease the temp. Or use the pre-sets. Try to change the temperature with an FX-951 like that and you’ll get a cryptic set of codes that require you to consult the manual (Rossmann describes it as an "80's alarm clock interface"). The ADS200 unit has much more capability built in if you wish to delve into the set-up mode. But our goal was for a customer to open the box, plug in all in, and be up and running, without a manual, within 2 minutes. Done!


I short I recently purchased three of these and a SX-115 and can say that they are all top shelf. The three ADS-200's have the auto setback feature and I have that set for 350F so that by the time I take the iron out of the stand and have it in place to solder a joint it is up to 700F. I also have the autosetback set to it's shortest time to setback setting which should increase tip life. So far in two months of fairly heavy use I have no complaints and can say to Pace "Job well done". I purchased ours from tequipment.net so it may be that they might offer a discount to EEVBlog members but since it was a corporate purchase I did not ask.

Sam
W3OHM
 

Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #152 on: November 25, 2018, 01:16:29 am »
Aaron, do you know anything about what the Swiss distributor is doing? Their website doesn’t even list the ADS200 yet. (I’m not reeeeeaally in the market for a new station, but man that thing is sexy!)

This is their page for soldering stations (rework stations have a separate page) https://shop.sibalco.ch/Kategorie/Loetsysteme-34545154

Sibalco is a long-time distributor for PACE. I'll ask Neil Manson, European Regional Sales Manager to give Sibalco a call to push them to update their site! Surprises me that Farnell isn't listed, as they're a key PACE distributor in Europe.

Aaron
Just FYI, Sibalco still hasn't updated their site to reflect the ADS200, and the PACE website still doesn't list Farnell as a distributor for Switzerland. (Farnell isn't listed for several other countries that Farnell definitely ships to, like Germany. Someone probably needs to go through the whole list of Farnell countries and update your list.)
 


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