EEVblog #1107 - Shocking 4K BENQ Monitor Problem!

[EEVblog]

Why does this 4K BENQ monitor mysteriously switch off on it's own?
Inadvertently re-visiting an old video.
The chair strikes back!

[wraper]

Why does this 4K BENQ monitor mysteriously switch off on it's own?

Most likely because of the crappy video cable. It's not switching off, it just blacks out because of the received data corruption. Seen this crap myself with 3rd party cable which had the shield but it wasn't connected to anything.

[elmo]

It just dawned on me that this may be the problem with a Eizo monitor I have at my workplace. It switches off and on seemingly random, worse on some days and other days not at all.
I resolved the issue by switching to display port instead of DVI.

[MaxSimmonds]

I actually had this problem at work, I've just finished a graduate traineeship with ESA (I was making a digitally controlled Buck + Boost Converter). I was having some serious issues with it, working one minute and stopping the next. The main issue was that each time this (at that point) unknown issue occurred, it would blow the arse out of my high side and low side FETs on the buck side - direct short between G-D-S, all three!

Of course, after about 5 days of no luck, testing everything I could think of, I was beginning to get quite disappointed. So, staying late one Friday night, I thought I had solved the issue - it had been running fine (in open loop conditions) and no failures. A failure was quite obvious to see since the power supplies would go in to over current protection.

"Excellent! Time to grab a coffee and leave it for a while to see if the problems solved". So, I stood up, and heard the devastating click of the relays in the PSU going into short circuit protection. At this point, it seemed far to coincidental.

I remembered, from a couple of years ago, watching the video Dave made on this phenomenon back when I was at university (probably in my first year!). I didn't have (and still don't unfortunately!) a scope of my own, so didn't get around to testing it. However, that Friday night I realised what a pain in the arse ESD was. I re-soldered two new FETs (DPAKS, so a total pain to unsolder and resolder 15+ times) and stood up from my chair again, this time probing the gates of the MOSFETs (possible making the injection worse?). And sure enough, it failed again, with some horrific interference (if anyone's interested I have some scope shots somewhere)



So, thanks a lot Dave! No one believed me, even engineers with 30+ years couldn't see how my chair was causing my converter to fail. I explained I watch your video a few years ago and tried it out, showed them, and after they checked all my grounding/PCB layout/etc, they agreed it was the chair!

In the next few says I brought in one of those lights with the piezo crystal starters that was empty of gas. It was a lot more convenient to troubleshoot the issue than standing up and down from my chair all day! Interestingly, this problem only showed itself when the weather changed and it got more dry. (BTW: Sitting on an ESD mat was my solution for a while, but I like the cardboard box idea too!)

[joseph nicholas]

I took apart a bad quality vga cable from China and cut the chock apart to find it was , well there was no chock at all in the plastic cast, on both ends.

[aqarwaen]

 few years ago i had similar problem with brand new monitor.took it back same day to shop back and they replaced it with new one..new one didnot have that issue..

[BravoV]

I took apart a bad quality vga cable from China and cut the chock apart to find it was , well there was no chock at all in the plastic cast, on both ends.

Use magnet instead, to detect the ferrite.

[joseph nicholas]

Great advice never though of that.

[Artlav]

Huh.
I have a similar problem on my DIY laptop.
It's a metal case grounded to everything inside of it, it got a system management board that have an HDMI->LCD converter on it and a little PC box acting as the actual computer.
If i scratch the case with my fingernails the screen starts flickering and might turn off for a moment.

Haven't actually bothered tracing it down, but now i'm curious about just what kind of shielding issues on HDMI could cause this kind of problem.

[DanaParsons]

An easy way to reproduce this is with a discharge spark from a Van Degraaff generator. These will shut down monitors and projectors within 10 feet or more. I had always assumed that the monitors themselves were not shielded properly but I suppose it is possible that the HDMI is the culprit. Interestingly, iMacs do not seem to be susceptible to this phenomenon. It would be pretty interesting to track down what kind of shielding would solve this problem.

[hamdi.tn]

My dell monitor black out too everytime i plug anything in main or powerup the lab powersupply.

[Ranayna]

12 years back, just when i started my IT apprenticeship, we had something similar happen.
We use USB tokens for two factor login to our computers. When the token is unplugged, the workstation immediately locks.
At that time, we were all sitting in a row. Each time a certain colleague got up from his chair, the computers of his two neigbors immediately locked themselves. Somehow the static discharge would interrupt the USB ports and cause the token to lose it's connection for just a moment, enough to lock their workstations.

The phenomenon only stopped after the offending colleague got a new chair. And we never saw that issue anywhere else in the company since then.

[wraper]

Haven't actually bothered tracing it down, but now i'm curious about just what kind of shielding issues on HDMI could cause this kind of problem.

No wonder it  has problems. Besides no proper differential pairs and impedance, HDMI runs over several ground splits. On top of that connecting several ground pins (separate shield for each diff pair) through one common via is ridiculous.

[T3sl4co1l]

Ya know, I wonder how pervasive it is to see badly grounded shields on HDMI.

USB is almost universally bad, so there's that.  HDMI is a very similar interface, it could be the same idiots are making the same mistakes there.

For those not in the know:
1. Q: When is differential not differential?  A: Always.  A pair is two wires, and each wire has a voltage with respect to ground, period.  When the common mode voltage goes beyond the input range of the receiver, poof, no more signal!  Typically, high speed interfaces (CML, LVDS, etc.) only receive within the supply range (often 0-3.3V).  (Industrial interfaces, like RS-485 and CAN, have a wide range of +/-10V or more, but aren't that fast.  Ethernet is fast AND has a whopping +/-1500V range, because it's transformer isolated.)
2. There is only one uncommon special case, where a connector's housing/shield shouldn't be connected to ground.  For >98% of cases, the shield must be grounded, at least through multiple capacitors, if not directly.  (What's critical is RF grounding, not DC galvanic grounding.)

Tim

[Artlav]

No wonder it  has problems.

Well, it works. :/

My excuse is that it's a hobby project with no third people use potential, but i can totally see how someone would design a product with the same mindset.

[isopropilick]

Back in January i brought an BenQ BL2710 monitor and i had the same problem! (I work with high power RF transmitters) It results in to that the only thing that i had to do is to disable the eco sensor (located in the little IR window in the front).

[seb30]

Hi,
the best ESD tool is the gaz lighter ! you can trigger device reset at 1 to 2 meter.
The manufacturer probably tested product for compliance with a lot of ESD protection diodes and
removed them to reduce cost on production.
By the way, on compliance test, this is the manufacturer who declare if the behaviour under imunity test is acceptable or not.
SeB.

[Fungus]

It just dawned on me that this may be the problem with a Eizo monitor I have at my workplace. It switches off and on seemingly random, worse on some days and other days not at all.
I resolved the issue by switching to display port instead of DVI.

One of my monitors blanks when I plug/unplug other devices in the room, maybe it's the same thing.

[BrianHG]

If it's a data error on the HDMI lines, usually you should get a glitch, not a screen on-off cycle.
if it is a glitch on the +5v sense line, HDMI pin 18, making the monitor think you disconnected/reconnected the PC, or, the PC power has cycled, this might make some sense.  Some HDMI cables might not shield this signal, or, some video cards feed 3.3v on this line making for a easily triggered low signal with any interference.

If you are using HDMI, try a low resolution like 1280x720 (if your screen actually will allow a low res mode...) and see if the screen still blanks out.  If it still does, the problem could be on the +5v sense line.  If so, you might need a thick HDMI cable which has an outer frame ground shield for all the conductors in the cable.

Personally, I still prefer the old DVI connectors with bolts.  I know HDMI is smaller, but, I have had less issues using the DVI plugs and cables, even when feeding HDIM compliant signals through the DVI connector.  I feel there is even a difference even if one side of the cable is on a DVI connector with the other side using a HDMI connector.

[wraper]

If it's a data error on the HDMI lines, usually you should get a glitch, not a screen on-off cycle.

With HDMI usually it will go blank before syncs with signal again. Sometimes image corruption without going blank is possible. Displayport always becomes blank.

not a screen on-off cycle.

It's not on/off cycle.

Personally, I still prefer the old DVI connectors with bolts.  I know HDMI is smaller, but, I have had less issues using the DVI plugs and cables, even when feeding HDIM compliant signals through the DVI connector.  I feel there is even a difference even if one side of the cable is on a DVI connector with the other side using a HDMI connector.

DVI does not work at 4k even at 30Hz.

[BrianHG]

If it's a data error on the HDMI lines, usually you should get a glitch, not a screen on-off cycle.

With HDMI usually it will go blank before syncs with signal again. Sometimes image corruption without going blank is possible. Displayport always becomes blank.

not a screen on-off cycle.

It's not on/off cycle.

When I say on-off, I basically meant the blackened pause.
If Dave was using HDMI, some of time when he got up from his chair, if there was data corruption, there should have been a few times when a bunch of pixels glitched up, along the exhibited occasional display going blank.  This is why I suspect the +5v sense line.  The syncs are embedded in the HDMI video data lines and if the data errors went through at that point in time, and a cheap monitor HDMI decoder cant deal with an error there, the screen will probably go temporarily blank.

One thing I haven't taken into account is that the monitor's HDMI receiver's cable length equalizer may respond to low frequencies and seeing an electrostatic pulse would cause them to mute down the receiver's amp for a long enough period to mute out enough lines of video where the monitor cant cope with so many lost h-syncs.  However, with a problem like this, almost every single time got up from his chair, the monitor should have been affected.

I don't have experience with display port, so I can only assume you are right about it's data corruption error artifacts.

[wraper]

there should have been a few times when a bunch of pixels glitched up, along the exhibited occasional display going blank.

Pixels glitching is hard to achieve even if you intentionally try to do this. Data corruption needs to be very very tiny for this to happen. It may happen with low quality or long cable at high resolution but not when transient happens.

[Red Squirrel]

We have this same issue at work!  I work in a NOC, we had 6+ monitors at one point, but got upgraded to 4k so we don't need as many.  Been through many PC upgrades and changes (normal PC life cycle) and even moved desks to a different part of the office.  No matter what, each and everyone of us has 1 monitor that will do this.  Even before the 4k ones.     It's always only 1 monitor and always the same one.  It seems to be triggered by any sudden movement, not just chair.  Ex: someone walking close, for me it's if I move my car keys.  It's very random.  We kind of gave up trying to figure out the cause because it seems to be so sporadic.  Every now and then it goes black and stays black and has to be turned off/on.   What's worse is if you turn off a monitor, it causes Windows to go haywire and shuffle all our applications all over the place.  My work place is the only place I've ever seen this happen. 

[nctnico]

Why does this 4K BENQ monitor mysteriously switch off on it's own?

Most likely because of the crappy video cable. It's not switching off, it just blacks out because of the received data corruption. Seen this crap myself with 3rd party cable which had the shield but it wasn't connected to anything.

Same here with a long video cable. I lost track of the standards but it isn't VGA. Switching on/off something which produces nasty spikes causes the display to blank.

[BrianHG]

  Ex: someone walking close, for me it's if I move my car keys.  It's very random.  We kind of gave up trying to figure out the cause because it seems to be so sporadic.

Hey, your monitors may have those old fashioned Ultrasonic Remote controls from the late 60s and early 70s.  I used to dangle my keys and the chiming sound would trigger a channel change, or, volume/power on and off....

[wraper]

What's worse is if you turn off a monitor, it causes Windows to go haywire and shuffle all our applications all over the place.

That's certainly displayport connection, HDMI interface does not care if monitor is ON/OFF. Did you try to change the cable? There are a hell of a lot DP cables in the wild which don't follow the standard. Including backfeeding power from monitor to GPU.

[BrianHG]

HDMI interface does not care if monitor is ON/OFF. Did you try to change the cable? There are a hell of a lot DP cables in the wild which don't follow the standard. Including backfeeding power from monitor to GPU.

Yes HDMI does.  It's a feature of some monitors and video projectors to hold the monitor ID and state even when the power is cut off.  In my video scaler, I had specific circuitry on my HDMI and DVI inputs to retain this feature.

Example, my BenQ TH670 , when powered down, my laptop doesn't care and thinks it's still connected and at 1080p, even if I remove the projector's 120v power chord.  As long as I don't remove the HDMI cable, it retains the video mode and setup.  With my stupid newer BenQ and Optoma HD142X, just turning off it's power on the remote control F--KS everything up.  (Why is everything getting so cheap and short sighted today... The manufacturers claim it is a feature when the engineering knows you save around 50 to 90 cents by not having the feature...  Even my 4 year old BenQs didn't mess up windows when I turned them off...) Thankfully, I can plug my laptop into my video scaler, then into these garbage newer cheaper crappy junk to fix that problem.  There also exists external DVI/HDMI EDID clone/bypass boxes which offer the same feature.  They also might exist for display port as well.

[EEVblog]

Cable changed to what looks like a really good quality one, now it's just turning off without me moving. Maybe David moving behind the monitor, I don't really know.

[wraper]

Cable changed to what looks like a really good quality one, now it's just turning off without me moving. Maybe David moving behind the monitor, I don't really know.

Is it HDMI or DP? I've seen like a dozen of Raspberry Pi with one half of HDMI differential transmitter been blown almost short to GND but monitor still displaying image most of the time. Although in such case it likely won't work at all @ 4k.

[Brumby]

Maybe our HDMI cables need a tinfoil hat...

I have a couple of soldering stations and power supplies in a small wooden shelf unit I made which sits about 2" to the right of my rightmost monitor.  One of the soldering stations has the main power switch at the back which means it is always switched on - but I have the whole group of devices on a master power switch.

Sometimes when I switch on this master switch nothing happens to the neighbouring monitor.  Sometimes I get a fleeting black line and sometimes the whole screen goes black for a couple of seconds.  My left monitor has never skipped a beat.

[BrianHG]

Cable changed to what looks like a really good quality one, now it's just turning off without me moving. Maybe David moving behind the monitor, I don't really know.

@Dave, first try a lower res video mode if allowed, then try a different PC or video card.  Something sound just too flaky.  Note that inside some monitors, the video input connector is on a daughter board, then with a cheap ribbon cable, or even cheap single stranded wires, the video is fed to the monitor's main PCB.  This is a weak point where a flaky wiring or bend in the wiring in the case of the stranded wiring type sometimes leads to a semi-lemon monitor video input.  Try using the monitor's alternate video input.  If this makes no difference, then it is most likely not a problem with the monitor itself.  Also make sure your HDMI cable is truly 4K PC RGB 4:4:4 compliant and not one of those crummy lower bandwidth cables which work at 4K in home theater setups where the run the color in a lower bandwidth 4:2:2 mode.  I've gotten this type of shaft before, those HDMI cable just don't work at all on a PC.

[Red Squirrel]

What's worse is if you turn off a monitor, it causes Windows to go haywire and shuffle all our applications all over the place.

That's certainly displayport connection, HDMI interface does not care if monitor is ON/OFF. Did you try to change the cable? There are a hell of a lot DP cables in the wild which don't follow the standard. Including backfeeding power from monitor to GPU.

Interesting, yes I believe they are mostly DP.  Is there a way to disable this "feature" without a new cable?  Or is there something to look for if buying a new cable?  I don't imagine this is something specific they would advertise so don't want to keep buying cables just to try.   

Also this flicker issue for us at work persists even with different cable.  Pretty much everything has changed at some point or the other including the monitors themselves. It's really weird.   The ferrite rings seem to have helped in Dave's video though... it may not have fixed it completely but seems it was not happening as much.  I may get some and give them a shot at work.

[wraper]

Is there a way to disable this "feature" without a new cable?  Or is there something to look for if buying a new cable?

Nope, you won't be able to disable it even by changing DP cable. You certainly should avoid cheap ebay cables, they are really dodgy. Change to HDMI if possible.

[SparkyFX]

Cable changed to what looks like a really good quality one, now it's just turning off without me moving. Maybe David moving behind the monitor, I don't really know.

What an improvement ;-)

I had similar issues with a lightning protection in a power strip being triggered by ESD, caused by movement of the office chair on a plastic mat and rolling toward the table. I grounded the table (a metal part of it) to ground on the power strip and the issue was gone. At least the discharge seems to take a different path then.

Maybe a wiper contact to ground on the chair helps as well :-) Similar to what was used on cars for years, where i also had issues with getting a discharge when leaving the vehicle and touching the frame, depending on clothes and shoes.

Is it a monitor with a power brick or with mains connection?

[BrianHG]

How are the AC power chords wired up in you office setup?  Here in Canada, at my old house, I once used separate wall outlets and I could hear interference from static on my audio amp & occasionally get noise on my analog screens until I powered all my devices from 1 power bar.  It was not that the power bar had any filtering, it was that the GND pin on the wall outlets had separate wiring to the fuse box and the huge GND loop between the fuse box, through 2 floors of the house and the PC, then back and around again for the power chord of the monitor and speaker amp which was on a separate outlet made a gigantic loop antenna for the frame grounds and the signal video and sound cable frame ground connections and the inner cable signal grounds.  Powering everything from 1 power bar at 1 outlet shrunk the loop ground from circling the house 2 times to the length of the power cables for the PC and monitor / audio amp.  This solved a few issues.

[T3sl4co1l]

How are the AC power chords wired up in you office setup?

Major fifths, I would assume.

/rimshot

Tim

[SparkyFX]

It is an annoying problem (at least it distracts), but as long as it recovers there might be no real warranty issue for a manufacturer. One could always claim that it just takes an even larger ESD impulse to trigger problems and it is out of their control what type and size of an impulse occurs (shitstorm effects left aside). The Van de Graff generator approach is cool, but kind of implies that it is usually best to solve the issue at the source, which might be too hard for most consumers - those that recognize it as an effect of ESD kind of know what can be done or who to ask, those that don´t have a problem.

Or am i totally off and there is a standard for ESD-proofing of consumer electronics?

I mean there are several ways to harden a system, from wrapping tin foil around suspect pickup points, conductive paint in housings to other methods of grounding and shielding. Might be worth a video?

[BrianHG]

I am still surprised this is actually a problem.  HDMI should have a separate shield frame ground from PC, PC chassis, PC video card to monitor and such an expensive monitor should have shielded electronics.

I can only guess an opening in the path here is that Dave has a vanity computer case with a plastic/glass closure door where this Faraday cage frame-ground shield is broken because of that huge transparent window.

(I still don't know how those cases pass FCC...)

[SparkyFX]

(I still don't know how those cases pass FCC...)

Don´t they just check for emissions of a device, not for the device´s sensitivity?
They might even test in completely different conditions with grounded environment to exclude the person that performs the test from the measurement.

[T3sl4co1l]

(I still don't know how those cases pass FCC...)

Don´t they just check for emissions of a device, not for the device´s sensitivity?
They might even test in completely different conditions with grounded environment to exclude the person that performs the test from the measurement.

Correct, FCC does not require surge or susceptibility (they recommend it, but, alas, that's non-binding).

Most companies making dual-market products will do FCC and CE at the same time, on the same product.  CE is comprehensive, so if you're passing that, you're bound to be pretty well off even in the US.

It's nice that non-binding, foreign regulations sometimes make our lives/products better.

Note that "most companies" means a lot of small and medium quantity manufacturers.  The few big boys, are more than happy to grind out a few more cents by differentiating EMC across markets.  So, say, Sony or Panasonic and such, might make a consumer TV or camera or whatever, that varies worldwide, and are marked for certification accordingly.

Tim

[BrianHG]

(I still don't know how those cases pass FCC...)

Don´t they just check for emissions of a device, not for the device´s sensitivity?
They might even test in completely different conditions with grounded environment to exclude the person that performs the test from the measurement.

I meant the other way around.  That big glass window open to all those GHz signals on the traces and connectors of the PCBs leaking out.
Note I see how you thought that my (...) was describing external interference getting in, it's the reason why I placed that quote in brackets...

[EEVblog]

Update: I got a Display Port cable and this seems to have fixed the problem.

[SparkyFX]

I meant the other way around.  That big glass window open to all those GHz signals on the traces and connectors of the PCBs leaking out.
Note I see how you thought that my (...) was describing external interference getting in, it's the reason why I placed that quote in brackets...

Nevermind, i just recognized that i made a mistake :-), i translated/interpreted "cases" not as computer case, but as the case of ESD susceptibility of the monitor. Makes a lot more sense now.

Leads to questions of how narrow a faraday cage spacing needs to be for what signal. I think there is more focus on aspects like where the mains are connected and how well the conductive parts of the case are isolated from them and how they are grounded.

E.g. some welders tend to point out that CE style machines have the on/off switch on the back instead of the front (which is less practical), whereas this is not the case with american machines.

[PolishGandalf215]

Hello everyone, I've been having a similar situation for over 2 months. In December I purchased a new PC, picked parts at a Microcenter (MC), and had them build it since I am barely an amateur. Over a month later, when the PC cannot be refunded, I started to experience PC shutdowns when standing up from my chair (Event). Like in the video, it wasn't every time but frequent. I would have to reboot the PC from the case. One time when I was working with files in an external hard drive (EHD), the Event occurred and the EHD was fried. The PC was purchased to match my monitor, Samsung Odyssey G7 4k/144hz, and for information, I already had a Secret Labs Titan Chair. MC has been very little help but suggested using an HDMI cable, instead of the DP cable. The Event still happened and I tried about 4 different iterations of HDMI, DP, and HDMI/DP cables. I tried another copy of the monitor to see if I bought a bad monitor, Event still occurred. I am currently testing another scenario by placing my PC on a plywood sheet on 3 towels on a cardboard box on the floor. For 6 days, no Event so far, and yet I am still having ESD happen when standing up. When using my older PC, the monitor had the same black screen situation that was seen in the Shocking 4K BENQ Monitor Problem video. I was lucky enough to get a Watts Up? Pro meter hooked up to my PC to monitor (amps, watts, volts, etc.) The readings were Max Volts at 126.1 after the Event occurred/ 125 before, Max Watts 510 after / 399 before, and Max Amps 5.4 after/ 4.9 before. I haven't been able to review the data yet but will confirm what happens exactly when the Event occurs. I purchased a grounding plug and cable to ground my chair. I heard that I should get a humidifier. Any questions or thoughts on how to address this?

[wraper]

Hello everyone, I've been having a similar situation for over 2 months. In December I purchased a new PC, picked parts at a Microcenter (MC), and had them build it since I am barely an amateur. Over a month later, when the PC cannot be refunded, I started to experience PC shutdowns when standing up from my chair (Event). Like in the video, it wasn't every time but frequent. I would have to reboot the PC from the case. One time when I was working with files in an external hard drive (EHD), the Event occurred and the EHD was fried. The PC was purchased to match my monitor, Samsung Odyssey G7 4k/144hz, and for information, I already had a Secret Labs Titan Chair. MC has been very little help but suggested using an HDMI cable, instead of the DP cable. The Event still happened and I tried about 4 different iterations of HDMI, DP, and HDMI/DP cables. I tried another copy of the monitor to see if I bought a bad monitor, Event still occurred. I am currently testing another scenario by placing my PC on a plywood sheet on 3 towels on a cardboard box on the floor. For 6 days, no Event so far, and yet I am still having ESD happen when standing up. When using my older PC, the monitor had the same black screen situation that was seen in the Shocking 4K BENQ Monitor Problem video. I was lucky enough to get a Watts Up? Pro meter hooked up to my PC to monitor (amps, watts, volts, etc.) The readings were Max Volts at 126.1 after the Event occurred/ 125 before, Max Watts 510 after / 399 before, and Max Amps 5.4 after/ 4.9 before. I haven't been able to review the data yet but will confirm what happens exactly when the Event occurs. I purchased a grounding plug and cable to ground my chair. I heard that I should get a humidifier. Any questions or thoughts on how to address this?

Did you have an actual PC shutdown or what? Image temporarily disappearing has nothing to do with shutdowns.

[PolishGandalf215]

Did you have an actual PC shutdown or what? Image temporarily disappearing has nothing to do with shutdowns.
[/quote]

Yes, the PC shut down and I would have to reboot by pressing the case power button and logging back in.

[wraper]

Then why did you change video cables? It's obvious it's internal PC problem or mains power problem, like lose power cord and has nothing to do with any video cables or monitors.

[PolishGandalf215]

Then why did you change video cables? It's obvious it's internal PC problem or mains power problem, like lose power cord and has nothing to do with any video cables or monitors.

I tried the other cables based on the store's theory that the monitor was sending a shutdown signal but since it only happened when I stood up, this thread seems related but the solution was not effective. Microcenter has tested the PC itself and found no issues internally, yet they provide no report. Internal connections seem to be fine, they've shaken the PC while it's connected to their 1080p HDMI monitor to no effect. I'm gonna have them completely rebuild the PC and check the components. I now used a grounding plug to hold while I get up since I normally discharging on the chair when I stand up or light switch after I stand up. It seemed to work for a few days since there were no shutdowns till tonight while I was holding the grounding plug. Should I attach the grounding plug alligator clips to the PC and see if that does anything. I am getting various shutdown configurations where lights on and in the PC are on or off. None of this makes sense.

[wraper]

Nothing can send shutdown signal to a PC unless it's a USB HID device like a keyboard. And even then it will be a normal shutdown like if you have done it from start menu, not immediate turn off.

Should I attach the grounding plug alligator clips to the PC and see if that does anything.

What's the point? PC is earthed through mains cable.

[coppice]

Nothing can send shutdown signal to a PC unless it's a USB HID device like a keyboard. And even then it will be a normal shutdown like if you have done it from start menu, not immediate turn off.

I don't know about displayport or DVI, but an HDMI monitor port can send a shutdown command to a connected device. The HDMI ports on PC are not generally configured to react to those commands, but they do exist, and things like AV receivers are generally configured to be started and shut down by those HDMI signals from the monitor.

[wraper]

Nothing can send shutdown signal to a PC unless it's a USB HID device like a keyboard. And even then it will be a normal shutdown like if you have done it from start menu, not immediate turn off.

I don't know about displayport or DVI, but an HDMI monitor port can send a shutdown command to a connected device. The HDMI ports on PC are not generally configured to react to those commands, but they do exist, and things like AV receivers are generally configured to be started and shut down by those HDMI signals from the monitor.

Yes there is HDMI CEC, but generally you cannot even control a TV from PC without using additional USB-CEC adaptor, not to say other way around. Most of graphics cards have no hardware support for it.

[coppice]

Nothing can send shutdown signal to a PC unless it's a USB HID device like a keyboard. And even then it will be a normal shutdown like if you have done it from start menu, not immediate turn off.

I don't know about displayport or DVI, but an HDMI monitor port can send a shutdown command to a connected device. The HDMI ports on PC are not generally configured to react to those commands, but they do exist, and things like AV receivers are generally configured to be started and shut down by those HDMI signals from the monitor.

Yes there is HDMI CEC, but generally you cannot even control a TV from PC without using additional USB-CEC adaptor.

I think its probably a matter of configuration rather than capability. Current games machines use similar hardware to PCs. If the GPU in a games machine has CEC, I expect the GPU in a PC has it too. I don't know why they would leave it out. Its such a small part of the device.

[wraper]

Nothing can send shutdown signal to a PC unless it's a USB HID device like a keyboard. And even then it will be a normal shutdown like if you have done it from start menu, not immediate turn off.

I don't know about displayport or DVI, but an HDMI monitor port can send a shutdown command to a connected device. The HDMI ports on PC are not generally configured to react to those commands, but they do exist, and things like AV receivers are generally configured to be started and shut down by those HDMI signals from the monitor.

Yes there is HDMI CEC, but generally you cannot even control a TV from PC without using additional USB-CEC adaptor.

I think its probably a matter of configuration rather than capability. Current games machines use similar hardware to PCs. If the GPU in a games machine has CEC, I expect the GPU in a PC has it too. I don't know why they would leave it out. Its such a small part of the device.

What similar hardware? Console SoC is similar in regards of GPU/CPU architecture but that's about it. Those are specialty chips designed for the consoles only.

[coppice]

Nothing can send shutdown signal to a PC unless it's a USB HID device like a keyboard. And even then it will be a normal shutdown like if you have done it from start menu, not immediate turn off.

I don't know about displayport or DVI, but an HDMI monitor port can send a shutdown command to a connected device. The HDMI ports on PC are not generally configured to react to those commands, but they do exist, and things like AV receivers are generally configured to be started and shut down by those HDMI signals from the monitor.

Yes there is HDMI CEC, but generally you cannot even control a TV from PC without using additional USB-CEC adaptor.

I think its probably a matter of configuration rather than capability. Current games machines use similar hardware to PCs. If the GPU in a games machine has CEC, I expect the GPU in a PC has it too. I don't know why they would leave it out. Its such a small part of the device.

What similar hardware? Console SoC is similar in regards of GPU/CPU architecture but that's about it. Those are specialty chips designed for the consoles only.

The chips are custom, but they are build from cores used elsewhere.

[wraper]

The chips are custom, but they are build from cores used elsewhere.

So what? Microsoft or Sony said AMD to put CEC hardware inside their SoC, so AMD did it. Or maybe CEC has nothing to do with AMD SoC and they made it some other way. AMD and Nvidia has no reason to implement it on PC hardware as barely anyone uses it.

[coppice]

The chips are custom, but they are build from cores used elsewhere.

So what? Microsoft or Sony said AMD to put CEC hardware inside their SoC, so AMD did it. Or maybe CEC has nothing to do with AMD SoC and they made it some other way. AMD and Nvidia has no reason to implement it on PC hardware as barely anyone uses it.

Have you designed any silicon recently? 30 years ago when I wanted to get a handful of extra gates into a design to provide an interesting extra function there would be loud voices trying to shut me down. Now everyone wants to make their designs feature complete, even if this adds a LOT of gates. Its cheap, and if it turns out a sizeable customer unexpectedly wants the extra bits, you don't want to lose sales. Its only when your additions add to the pin count that you get push back against completeness.

[wraper]

The chips are custom, but they are build from cores used elsewhere.

So what? Microsoft or Sony said AMD to put CEC hardware inside their SoC, so AMD did it. Or maybe CEC has nothing to do with AMD SoC and they made it some other way. AMD and Nvidia has no reason to implement it on PC hardware as barely anyone uses it.

Have you designed any silicon recently? 30 years ago when I wanted to get a handful of extra gates into a design to provide an interesting extra function there would be loud voices trying to shut me down. Now everyone wants to make their designs feature complete, even if this adds a LOT of gates. Its cheap, and if it turns out a sizeable customer unexpectedly wants the extra bits, you don't want to lose sales. Its only when your additions add to the pin count that you get push back against completeness.

Whatever there is hardware capability or not, there is no firmware/software support for it. Also I grabbed some random GTX 1080Ti schematic and CEC pin is not connected.

[PolishGandalf215]

Sorry Coppice & Wraper but that went over my head.

While the PC was at the store, I tested different HDMI cables between my PS5 and my Samsung Odyssey G7. I bounced in my chair and got up and down. Some cables prevented the monitor from flickering while others did not. This coincides with the original video.

The store replaced my motherboard and I have been testing the cables. I have several HDMI, DP, and Hybrid cables. Just like the previous HDMI testing, there were DP cables and Hybrid cables that worked while others did not. So far, I have not seen a complete shutdown which is the ultimate problem. As of now, I am only using HDMI and DP cables that don't allow the flickering of the monitor. I will update if/when the complete PC shutdown occurs again.

I do have a PowerColor AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Red Devil Overclocked Triple Fan 16GB GDDR6 PCIe 4.0 Graphics Card, Gigabyte B650 AORUS Pro AX AMD AM5 ATX Motherboard, and an EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 GT 80 Plus Gold 1000W Fully Modular Power Supply. I was wondering if those components could be impacted by EMI.