Author Topic: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?  (Read 3453 times)

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Offline rrinker

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2018, 01:07:14 am »
 Assuming the original really was shredded - even el-cheapo shredders do crosscuts, not just long straight strips. Something strong enough to shred the canvas SURELY would do crosscuts. It's obvious that the knives Banksy showed in his video couldn't possibly be the actual cutting mechanism. but some sort of system like that with the blades pointed in the proper direction could produce the observed result. Or maybe under that metal frame was just a set of rollers geared together, one winding up the actual piece and the other unrolling the strips out the bottom. That wouldn't even need much power.

 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2018, 02:32:23 am »
Then good ´ol banksy might have a legal problem, imho it would be highly fraudulent to drive the price of his own works up.
I am sure you can buy your own work back at whatever value you are willing to pay, therefore it would not be a viable fraud in itself (there is no direct financial advantage in buying back at a higher price than market value) but at the same time the value of his other works changes price tags as well.

At the same time revealing the mechanism or the truth might be a legal way out of the problem -> to not influence pricing too much. Anonymous or not...

It would be like a stock manipulation by the owner of a company.... smoking weed in front of cameras, talking bullshit all the time and such things shortly after talking about buying back stock at a fixed rate above market value.

edit: after thinking about it for a few more minutes, i would say that this is an interesting discussion. Should such a case ever be in front of a court (forseeable for the artist), there are only a couple of options.
a) painting was destroyed: they get an expert for art that either concludes
  a1) shredder is part of the artwork and worked as intended (nothing new in our little circle, see buzzwords "planned obsolescence", "right to repair" and such)
  a2) painting destroyed, by common understanding a cut painting is a destroyed painting
b) painting was not destroyed, only a cut copy was rolled out, then the painting itself was unaltered (does the remote work in reverse?)
c) artists consider themselves not part of the society and see destruction as art in itself, with questionable outcome

Remind, banksy is known from the graffiti scene, in which point c) is often answered different by most people, i guess this is the root of the idea to actually alter something in a way people could see as destruction. So if the market value goes up, it would not be destruction, if it goes down it would. Good luck defining destruction based on market value now. I assume he has a good laugh on that one.
It's not illegal to buy your own work. Buying a bunch of your own stock isn't illegal either, and it should be noted that art isn't at all as regulated as the stock market. If anything, this is like advertising your own work. There's nothing fraudulent about that and certainly not highly.

The only question is whether it constitutes vandalism and whether the owner was aware. I'm not even sure of the former as the shredder has always been a part of the artwork, at least that's the story. Whoever bought it bought the artwork as a whole, including the pieces he was unaware of.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #77 on: October 12, 2018, 07:10:03 am »
It looks as if the buyer is going ahead with the transaction...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-45829853

Quote
The European woman who bought the piece, who does not want to be named, said: "At first I was shocked, but I realised I would end up with my own piece of art history."

Doesn't sound like a description of the artist himself, even if he(/she) is anonymous.  :-\
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 07:39:58 am by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #78 on: October 12, 2018, 07:59:08 am »
"Pre-shredded" - would make the whole thing easier, lighter, more reliable, but ... does the mechanism really matter?

It matters because its the one thing Dave may have got wrong in his video, and we love criticizing him >:D.

Pre-shredded makes sense on too many levels, for liability as well as SparkyFX notes, you can just reverse the rollers and the painting returns to its original state.
I wouldn't be too surprised if the motor control is bi-directional and could roll/unroll the shredded copy.


Quote
We've had a number of #Banksy print owners contact us today asking if they shred their artwork will it be worth more. Please, Please DON'T. The events of the last 24hrs are a very unique piece of art history.

https://www.indy100.com/article/banksy-shredded-print-painting-girl-with-balloon-shred-sothebys-backfired-self-destruct-8575161
 :-DD

 
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Online Fungus

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2018, 06:29:11 pm »
imho it would be highly fraudulent to drive the price of his own works up.

Huh?

You're saying any art project (eg. this prank) that makes him more important as an artist is fraudulent?

Maybe he should have quit painting 20 years ago, just to avoid legal problems.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #80 on: October 12, 2018, 06:34:44 pm »
The only question is whether it constitutes vandalism and whether the owner was aware. I'm not even sure of the former as the shredder has always been a part of the artwork, at least that's the story. Whoever bought it bought the artwork as a whole, including the pieces he was unaware of.

Maybe he bought it knowing this would happen. He could have known in advance and that's the reason he paid 1 million for a painting that everybody else though was worth 300 thousand (the initial valuation).

Banksy could have told a few known collectors that "It'll be worth bidding on, trust me..." and that's the reason the price went so high.
 
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Online Koen

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2018, 11:01:13 pm »
March 2106 : Le Louvre exhibits this long lost print. As the curtain drops, the canvas rises from the grave as a truly intact piece revealing the artist one true message : art never disappears, it lives within us. People rejoice. The war is over.
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2018, 02:52:47 am »
So, has Banksy opened up a new angle on Performance Art?
 

Offline Kleinstein

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2018, 04:04:20 am »
"Pre-shredded" - would make the whole thing easier, lighter, more reliable, but ... does the mechanism really matter?

It matters because its the one thing Dave may have got wrong in his video, and we love criticizing him >:D.

Pre-shredded makes sense on too many levels, for liability as well as SparkyFX notes, you can just reverse the rollers and the painting returns to its original state.
I wouldn't be too surprised if the motor control is bi-directional and could roll/unroll the shredded copy.


Quote
We've had a number of #Banksy print owners contact us today asking if they shred their artwork will it be worth more. Please, Please DON'T. The events of the last 24hrs are a very unique piece of art history.

https://www.indy100.com/article/banksy-shredded-print-painting-girl-with-balloon-shred-sothebys-backfired-self-destruct-8575161
 :-DD

If the mechanism would be reversible - the fun would be to also have the reverse part on video. With a precut version hanging behind and rolling up the "original" this would be a pretty simple way to build the mechanics, though less of a performance if the "original" is still intact.

For the batteries, there is no need to use an electric drive for the shredder. For long time a simple mechanical spring mechanism might be pretty durable. However the rather constant speed suggest an electric drive.

My guess would be the previous owner was part of the plot - possibly to a point that such a stunt was plant from the beginning an the batteries just changes before. At least the mechanism needed quite some extra length of the canvas on the lower end.
 
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #84 on: October 14, 2018, 04:45:55 am »
I’ve just been to see it this afternoon. Sotherby’s have opened it to the public today and tomorrow.

I only have an IOS device with me and I haven’t figured out how to upload pics from IOS to the forum, so here is a link to a few photos to at least try to understand how it works a bit more: https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ak3HU3AygNouhbwV2E51SdaPmNgAmw

I have some cellphone video too but lighting isn’t good. As well as quite limited lighting, the piece is behind acrylic glass, and side views are limited by the support structure. But you are allowed to walk all the way around it.

My view having seen it wih my own eyes from about 1m away? The shredded canvas isn’t the original picture canvas. The vertical registration, together with the depth offset, says it can’t be, unless it’s elastic.

You’re taken into a dark room with the piece lit from above only in groups of about 30 or 40 at a time, with a 2 minute time limit.

Cameras beyond a cell phone were no allowed: I took an LX10 point and shoot pocket camera which has an f/1.4 lens on a 1” sensor, pretty much as good as it gets for low light in this form factor, but was told to put it away as soon as I took it out of my pocket by one of the five security guards in the room.

Of course everyone was using a cellphone.

There was about a half hour wait when I went, and be aware that there is plenty of queue jumping whether or not you were entitled. Please, visitors to Britain, understand that queues are there for a reason, because we still have manners and respect for others, and self-entitlement in the queue department is pretty much asking for a firm verbal response.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 05:23:03 am by Howardlong »
 
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Online Bud

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #85 on: October 14, 2018, 05:09:45 am »
The rectangular opening in the back plate is still there! How come noone looked through it and not noticed the stuffed parts of the mechanism inside? I do not get it.
 

Offline AndyC_772

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #86 on: October 14, 2018, 05:36:09 am »
Given the materials used in the artwork, how plausible is it that the artist could produce an duplicate to shred which is so nearly identical to the original that it stands up to scrutiny?

It was made with spray paint; expressive, perhaps, but not particularly controllable. Presumably somewhere there's a high resolution image of the original artwork, which could be compared with the shredded version to see if they're actually the same?
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #87 on: October 14, 2018, 05:39:22 am »
I forgot to mention, the shredded/non-shredded canvases are very definitely a different shade. Busted just on this IMHO.
 

Offline TheSteve

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #88 on: October 14, 2018, 06:18:41 am »
I forgot to mention, the shredded/non-shredded canvases are very definitely a different shade. Busted just on this IMHO.

Yep, you captured that very nicely in your pictures.
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Offline W9GFO

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #89 on: October 14, 2018, 06:31:56 am »
I forgot to mention, the shredded/non-shredded canvases are very definitely a different shade. Busted just on this IMHO.

I think that is due to lighting. The original is behind glass under a spot light, the shredded part is not under glass and is illuminated by indirect AND reflected light.

I can't think of a good reason why they would be different shades anyway, it is not like this thing was displayed in direct sunlight for several years.

 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #90 on: October 14, 2018, 07:32:47 am »
The entire item was all behind glass of some sort, both the main picture and the shredded. You can see the reflections in both.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #91 on: October 14, 2018, 07:37:27 am »
Here's some lower res versions for inline on-forum viewing (don't know why some are showing wrong orientation).








« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 07:40:55 am by Howardlong »
 
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Offline mc172

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #92 on: October 14, 2018, 07:42:37 am »
I just don't get why this is a thing. Who cares?

Er, wasn't the whole idea that he didn't want his art sold, yet it's now an exhibition piece with massive media attention, with a price tag to enter, and is hence being sold (or at least rented)?
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #93 on: October 14, 2018, 08:07:55 am »
I just don't get why this is a thing. Who cares?

Er, wasn't the whole idea that he didn't want his art sold, yet it's now an exhibition piece with massive media attention, with a price tag to enter, and is hence being sold (or at least rented)?

Frankly the art part of it doesn't interest me, it's the engineering, including the implied claims, and the realistic engineering viability.

I know I am not alone in taking family electrical appliances apart when I was young to try to understand them. Much the the same applies now.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #94 on: October 14, 2018, 09:37:03 am »
I just don't get why this is a thing. Who cares?

Er, wasn't the whole idea that he didn't want his art sold, yet it's now an exhibition piece with massive media attention, with a price tag to enter, and is hence being sold (or at least rented)?

To add, entry to the exhibit is free of charge.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2018, 02:17:49 am »
I think that is due to lighting.

It might also be because it passed though a dirty/oily roller.

But I believe that the "pre-shredded" method is much easier to implement and therefore more likely.
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2018, 02:33:01 am »
Seems weird that Sotheby's would put it on display. Doesn't the buyer want it?

Now we're back to the theory that Sotheby's was in on it all along and the auctioneer does push a button just after the hammer falls.

(watch the video at 0:36)




 
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #97 on: October 15, 2018, 03:00:18 am »
The buyer is still proceeding with the purchase.

I’m not convinced Sotheby’s were in on it.

Either way, I think we can all agree there is a mechanism inside the frame that’s controlled externally.

But I don’t believe the mechanism, specifically what powered it, was put in twelve years ago. Far more likely shortly before the sale, the frame was dismantled to facilitate the stunt.
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #98 on: October 15, 2018, 03:23:05 am »
Either way, I think we can all agree there is a mechanism inside the frame that’s controlled externally.

Not me. I think it was listening for an auctioneer's hammer, combined with certain keywords to arm the device.  :popcorn:

(for the last 12 years)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 04:04:40 am by Fungus »
 

Offline SparkyFX

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Re: EEVBlog #1131 - £1M Banksy Artwork Shredded! HOW?
« Reply #99 on: October 15, 2018, 06:11:41 am »
You're saying any art project (eg. this prank) that makes him more important as an artist is fraudulent?
No, yet my post may imply it. Sorry, it was not meant this way. Arrangements between bidder and owner to drive the price up might be fraudulent, but hard to regulate, i don´t know enough about it. The piece itself is not any different by doing so.

Nevertheless, in the moment art hits commerce, popularity influences price.
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Comes with: More Parts! Complications™! Physics! English! Pulled out Hairs! Batteries included!
 


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