Author Topic: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD  (Read 4841 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« on: November 16, 2018, 09:17:54 am »
Is a *1 CENT* LDO voltage regulator any good?
Dave tests the Shen Zhen Fine Mad! SC662K 3.3V LDO from LCSC:
https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Low-Dropout-Regulators-LDO_SC662K-3-3V_C83932.html
a.k.a. http://www.superchip.cn

 
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Offline johnlsenchak

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2018, 10:30:36 am »

What  on gods  earth  are you going to do with  3000  voltage  regulators ?   Have you  lost your mind  Gone  MAD !   LOL


Better lighting is needed , sound is good
John Senchak "Daytona  Beach  Florida "
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https://www.facebook.com/john.senchak.1
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2018, 10:33:27 am »
Better lighting is needed , sound is good

I think the sound is not great. Was experimenting with the NTG-1 mic though.
 
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Online bd139

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2018, 10:38:17 am »
I keep buying unknown brand chinese stuff from LCSC. Discretes, semis, the lot. Always works. Always in spec. I was suspicious at the start so breadboarded some of the parts. Zero problems.

Don't mind waiting a couple of weeks for snail mail if the price is 1/20th of local suppliers and branded parts.
 
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Online maginnovision

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2018, 11:21:21 am »
I would've liked to see noise but otherwise it looked alright.
 

Offline jnissen

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2018, 12:07:58 pm »
Worth de-potting this design to see what the chip looks like. I wonder if it's like many other design in China that have "borrowed" some other manufacturers IP.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2018, 12:22:55 pm »

Love the "Mad" name just like that.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 12:46:39 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline scopeman

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2018, 02:16:22 pm »
Dave,

From the data sheet it looks like the output device is a FET not a PNP. Interesting though.

Sam
 

Offline TheRevva

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2018, 03:32:23 pm »
Since this video refers to cheap vregs  from LCSC.com, this is _almost_ 'on-topic'???

Has anyone used the link on JLCPCB.com to coalesce your PCB order with the corresponding parts from LCSC.com?
(It should help to trim shipping costs?)

I've got a little project where I'm driving a handful of 10mm pitch outdoor RGB LED displays (128 * 32 pixels) using an Arduino Due through a little shield I've designed.
I had the v1.0 PCBs made @ PCBWAY and they came out fine (aside from a small 'design SNAFU' I made)

I was about to hit the 'go' button on the v1.3 PCBs (v1.1 and v1.2 never saw daylight... LOL), but I thought I might give a different PCB house a try.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2018, 03:39:11 pm »
Has anyone used the link on JLCPCB.com to coalesce your PCB order with the corresponding parts from LCSC.com?

Yes, it was a farce. The two orders arrived two weeks apart.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2018, 03:46:00 pm »
From the data sheet it looks like the output device is a FET not a PNP. Interesting though.

P channel FET, I said that in the video.
 

Offline Krumm

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2018, 05:36:45 pm »
Dave, thought of doing a video on the differences between a known decent brand vs something like this? Would be interesting to know exactly why the major brands are much more expensive vs this.
 

Offline mancausoft

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2018, 08:54:34 pm »
It is interesting to see the data of 100 (or more) of these regulators, to see how accurate they really are.
And of course thermal on max load :)

Offline DutchGert

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2018, 08:59:15 pm »
Nice one.

What i dont like is that you connect the thing with no input or output caps on them and then start doin all kind of "tests" and draw conclusions based on that.
Why not take 5 mins extra an connect the suggested caps to them and do all these tests.

Also, i doubt any serious western company will use these parts. You can test them and so on but what about the next batch or the one after that…… I would not trust the next reel that comes in for one bit
 
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Offline imo

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2018, 09:02:38 pm »
People get oscillation problems when loading some LDOs vregs with ceramic capacitors.
Try with 10-22uF ceramic multilayer wired directly at its output..
 

Offline Warhawk

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2018, 07:42:41 am »
The price of such a component does not compensate for the risk associated with using them. The manufacturer would probably need to pay me for using a component with no English datasheet, single distributor, doubtful performance and zero quality assurance. Dave, I like your videos where you discover bizarre Chinese stuff but I don't like the optimism I sense from the video(s). I like the critical-thinking and skeptical Dave simply better. The Dave some time ago would not waste his precious time on 1 cent LDOs, 3 cent micros, and 20USD AN8008. There are enough YouTubers from the 3rd world countries which can take care of it.

Keep in mind that you have become a respectful industry influencer and your videos don't only entertain senior engineers but also educate young graduates. We (you) should educate the young folks that an HW designer must do the best to deliver a functional hardware. This means quality first. Even a skilled hobbyist doesn't waste his time working with unknown brands (you remember widlarizer, right?).
Cost optimizations are for idiot managers, marketers and the procurement department. They behave like on heroin anyway - you save them a cent, they want you to save two.

However, working for TI and traveling to China every so often makes me probably biased. Or maybe I've just had a bad day today and now being hysterical :-\. I should probably watch another episode of Dilbert.

Take care and thanks for all the time you invested in popularizing electronics.

- Jiri
 
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Online bd139

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2018, 07:47:21 am »
That "bizarre Chinese stuff" is in everything around us too.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2018, 07:52:34 am »
bd139,

have all the components you've bought worked consistently?

The question of consistency is a valid one. Suppose a one cent voltage regulator works great for a while and then suddenly fails, it definitely is relevant to the decision of whether to use them.

All parts should be held to the same standards as far as quality.

We remember the bad experiences much more than the good ones. It only takes one key component (like a voltage regulator!) to fail to ruin a device.

If they are reliable, though, thats good news for designers who want a low price option.

I know that its nice to have a part when you need one. These parts are so cheap that stocking up on them is not painful.

If you don't need them for a while, no biggie. You'll have them when you do.

bd139, I'd like to hear more about the unknown Asian parts you've found that you liked or didn't like and why.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 07:55:52 am by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2018, 07:55:11 am »
However, working for TI and traveling to China every so often makes me probably biased.

If TI sells single pop at the price it sells that part to Apple, we will all be using TI parts.

And if you are curious, your TI parts is better than Chinese parts saying can also be applied back -- LT parts are better than TI parts. At least for analog parts.

For precision analog parts, my ranking is like this: LT>AD>TI>ON>Chinese. You are not far above in my rank.
 

Online bd139

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2018, 08:44:04 am »
bd139, I'd like to hear more about the unknown Asian parts you've found that you liked or didn't like and why.

I'm relatively early in the journey. So far we have:

1. No brand MLCC C0G/NP0 caps. Cheapest they have on LCSC. As good as Vishay mono-kap C0G in VFO applications. I managed to get VFO drift of only 18Hz/hour out of them. That is better than the other generic MLCC ones I've used which are supposedly C0G/MP0.
2. HT7550 from Guandong Hottech. I've tried a sample of these (10 off) with stupid loads (long bits of wire with caps on the end, reels of wire with resistors on end) and they are rock solid. I managed to get MCP1700s to oscillate and a TI part I can't remember to do that too. Cheap ones, not a sausage. I checked dropout under varying load conditions, all good. I checked short circuit handling, transients. All good.
3. Cheap resistors. Nothing in them. They just work. Tempco seems about right. If I wave the board over a gas cooker there's little change in resistance even though it toasted my Pomona leads  :palm:
4. Changzhou Starsea Elec LL4148. £0.0073 each. Tested in switching function and breakdown - seem as good as any other parts.

I have a couple of boxes of parts in flight which I will evaluate.

I bought some LEDs as well. Those were fine but I'm not sure they met the brightness spec but that may be because there's no diffuser.

The point is really this:

1. LCSC: LL4148 x50 = £0.365.
2. RS: £24.00 -  :scared:

You can pick major brands as well if you need to. I bought some ON semi MMBF4416's for £0.08 each. Same as UK disties but I don't want min quantity 100 off
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 08:46:19 am by bd139 »
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2018, 08:45:25 am »
Once you turned to the bench, there was something off with the sound. Distorted a little , and no lows.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 08:48:19 am by jancumps »
 

Offline Warhawk

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2018, 09:01:03 am »
However, working for TI and traveling to China every so often makes me probably biased.

If TI sells single pop at the price it sells that part to Apple, we will all be using TI parts.

And if you are curious, your TI parts is better than Chinese parts saying can also be applied back -- LT parts are better than TI parts. At least for analog parts.

For precision analog parts, my ranking is like this: LT>AD>TI>ON>Chinese. You are not far above in my rank.

Here in Europe, we typically have respect for the competition. Your assessment does not offend me at all. However, it is rather limited and stereotyped. You forgot about NXP, Renesas, JLR, ST, IFX, Microchip, Maxim, IDT, MPS, Rohm and many many others. And guess what - I am well aware how and where they are good (because they are!).

PS: LTC has been my favorite since ages.

PPS: My comment was not a pissing contest on who has better components. I am an engineer. Not a football fan.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 09:02:57 am by Warhawk »
 

Offline sakujo7

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2018, 02:02:37 pm »
Has anyone used the link on JLCPCB.com to coalesce your PCB order with the corresponding parts from LCSC.com?

I tried it about a year ago, and everything arrived in one box. YMMV.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2018, 02:54:51 pm »
For precision analog parts, my ranking is like this: LT>AD>TI>ON>Chinese. You are not far above in my rank.

Agree with that ranking.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1147 - 1 Cent Regulator! That's MAD
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2018, 06:12:56 pm »
However, working for TI and traveling to China every so often makes me probably biased. Or maybe I've just had a bad day today and now being hysterical :-\. I should probably watch another episode of Dilbert.

Yes, you are having a bad day.
These one cent regulators exist, they work, and they are used in their squillions in devices you own and use, and are one of the reasons why stuff you can buy is so cheap.
Therefore they are worthy of being discussed.
 


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