Author Topic: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)  (Read 2457 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« on: February 24, 2019, 10:48:44 am »
Repairing the Schaffner NSD200E Mains Interference Simulator.
And the dangers of bad mains filters capacitors, and RIFA brand in particular.

 

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2019, 11:34:36 am »
It should be forbidden to design these parts into any equipment without a valid blasting and explosives handling license :)
 

Online bitseeker

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2019, 12:18:26 pm »
Good ol' RIFA. We know them well.

The Schaffner Simulator, of course, has a Schaffner filter on the IEC connector, which is also famous for going bang. It needs replacing, too.
Life is better under the TEA. ♪♩♫ Under the TEA. ♩♫
 
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Offline sean0118

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2019, 12:30:40 pm »
Dave, you should test the cracked ones to destruction. Maybe outside?   ;)
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2019, 12:31:44 pm »
These capacitors are still for sale, today. Vishay offers them, look at PME 271 series.
I'd emailed Vishay and said WTF are you doing still selling these? No response. The epoxy seems to shrink with age.
 

Online wraper

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2019, 12:35:51 pm »
Good ol' RIFA. We know them well.

The Schaffner Simulator, of course, has a Schaffner filter on the IEC connector, which is also famous for going bang. It needs replacing, too.
Because they have those Rifa caps inside as well.
 

Online Andy Watson

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2019, 12:55:58 pm »
Another victim of the Rifa virus!  :-DD Its starting to look like ordeal by Rifa caps is a rite-of-passge for anybody tempted by older equipment. :)
 

Online bitseeker

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2019, 01:03:29 pm »
Good ol' RIFA. We know them well.

The Schaffner Simulator, of course, has a Schaffner filter on the IEC connector, which is also famous for going bang. It needs replacing, too.
Because they have those Rifa caps inside as well.

Yep, some of those filter modules even have a circuit diagram stuck on that shows that those caps are inside.
Life is better under the TEA. ♪♩♫ Under the TEA. ♩♫
 

Offline johnlsenchak

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2019, 01:40:32 pm »
Rifa  madness  great   title  ! 8) The question is , does  Dave have the munchies ?


It would be awesome if you connected that  test  device into a flat  screen  television or some other sensitive  electronic  device you found in the  dumpster room.  You can  see how those A/C  pulses  effect  the electronic  equipment under  test  conditions 

I use Surgex   surge  protectors  to protect  all my computer  equipment. The manufacture  states that  devices  under  load  can withstand  6KV  pulses using  Surgex  and have  proven that  fact in many   videos destroying  M.O.V.'s .  The  testing equipment  used to test Surgex  products  probably is very  similar to  the pulsing  device in this video.

I  do  believe  that Surgex  products  have  X/Y  filter capacitors on the main board , since  as  Dave would say " I take them  apart"

https://www.ametekesp.com/surgex

ESP Surge Demonstration
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 01:58:08 pm by johnlsenchak »
John Senchak "Daytona  Beach  Florida "
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Offline xrunner

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2019, 01:47:02 pm »
Reefer RIFA MAdness ! The TEA group knows all about it.  :-DD

He's holding one that just blew up -

I am a Test Equipment Addict (TEA) - by virtue of this forum signature, I have now faced my addiction
 

Online bitseeker

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2019, 04:02:13 pm »
 :-DD
Life is better under the TEA. ♪♩♫ Under the TEA. ♩♫
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2019, 04:04:54 pm »
Nice job with the repair.  Hope to see a part III with it in action.   2.5KV at 10ns and it looked like a 50 ohm source, will the 121GW survive??
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online Bicurico

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2019, 08:27:18 pm »
I am in process of repairing two PSUs from HP 8594E.

They contain 3 RIFA caps which I want to replace.

Can someone please guide me on how to find correct replacements?

Thanks,
Vitor
 

Offline Towger

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2019, 09:14:58 pm »
Hi Dave,

Did you get this one in the other module:



Don't forget the mains input filter, it will need to be replaced as well.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 09:17:21 pm by Towger »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2019, 09:25:16 pm »
Hi Dave,

Did you get this one in the other module:



Damn, completely missed that, thanks.
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2019, 10:49:24 pm »
It should be forbidden to design these parts into any equipment without a valid blasting and explosives handling license :)

After the "big bang" Schaffner went for a different cap manufacturer for their line filters. Apparently it was a case of unplanned obsolescence. Also beware of NOS Schaffner line filters from that era. They provide an instant bang for the buck quite often. ;D
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 10:51:42 pm by madires »
 

Offline Yansi

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2019, 11:11:17 pm »
You know what is funny (or in fact is not)?

That the bloody ELEKTRO AUTOMATIK GMBH still uses these piece of shit capacitors in their premium priced power supplies.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2019, 12:01:50 am »
I had a fire in the lab once because of these RIFA capacitors an a Philips counter.
Luckily I was in the lab and could extinguish it.

Since then I always open up old equipment and exchange the parts.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Online Kleinstein

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2019, 12:35:34 am »
The RIFA caps are not the only ones to fail. Back in the 1970's there where several similar caps going bad. I faintly remember that there was a recall of TV sets because of faulty caps, that did not deserve the  X rating, as they sometimes failed with fire (not just smoke).

One still sees X-class caps used across the line in something like power tools fail - quite often when the motor turns bad an produces more spikes, but also without an obvious reason. Too much humidity seems to be not the only failure mode.

The newer RIFA caps should be OK - though it's odd to still find the same old series.
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2019, 03:29:24 am »
Gee, must have sucked to be a RIFA employee. 10 out of 10, that's something... I feel for them. Just imagine this:

A grandson, wants to become an EE: "Grandpa, what did you do when you were younger?"
Grandpa: "I was working for R... I was a pimp."

Now I'll see myself out.
 

Offline tchicago

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2019, 04:10:59 am »
Dave, the sine wave on the scope looks significantly distorted. Is this normal for the mains voltage?
 

Offline bsfeechannel

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2019, 04:11:16 am »
I don't get the RIFA madness reference. Can some good soul explain it?
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2019, 04:17:30 am »
I don't get the RIFA madness reference. Can some good soul explain it?

Come on, admit it, you haven't even tried: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2019, 04:20:06 am »
I don't get the RIFA madness reference. Can some good soul explain it?

Come on, admit it, you haven't even tried: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness

Or you can watch the whole movie on YT.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline Towger

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Re: EEVblog #1183 - RIFA Madness (Schaffner Repair)
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2019, 04:48:19 am »
I don't get the RIFA madness reference. Can some good soul explain it?
100% failure rate.  I send Dave some New Old Stock RIFA suppression caps I had in a parts draw for EEVsmoke, about a year back.
 


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