Author Topic: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!  (Read 9754 times)

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Offline StillTrying

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #125 on: March 07, 2019, 02:17:29 am »
Here's a happy customer taking advantage of its >95% electricity saving and powering it using batteries. Good luck with that.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 02:26:31 am by StillTrying »
 

Offline JimRemington

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #126 on: March 07, 2019, 02:22:57 am »
Interesting that the "creator", currently calling himself "Maxim Interbrick" is so clueless about voltage.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #127 on: March 07, 2019, 03:22:30 am »
Well at least he's not saying volts per hour!
I can't see how they'll work from 48V to 220V without using any heat wasting :) electronics.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #128 on: March 07, 2019, 09:24:07 am »
This stinks of the Batteriser campaign. It doesn't matter how many times they say "the graphene continues to generate heat" and "we have a video that proves it", it doesn't make it true.

Facts are facts, whether or not they are convenient to "Max" of Solus.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #129 on: March 07, 2019, 09:37:57 am »
They finally mention BTU's and 100% efficiency!
But, magic graphene woo-woo, therefore better


 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #130 on: March 07, 2019, 09:53:19 am »
Maybe KS are going to take some action?

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #131 on: March 07, 2019, 09:56:33 am »
Yep, it's been suspended with 10 hours left
Doesn't mean it's cancelled, I suspect they are going to ask Solus to prove their claims.
This is now tricky business because it possibly puts some sort of legal liability on Kickstarter if they suspend it, evaluate the claims, and then reinstate it?

« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 10:01:29 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #132 on: March 07, 2019, 10:06:41 am »
I suspect Solus will simply realise their chances of succeeding with this scam is slim to none and will cleanse their campaign and remove references to "most efficient radiator in the world" and all mentions of graphene generating heat after power is disconnected.

They will go on to sell a sub-standard space heater with a trendy design, pocket as much cash as they can in the process and move on to the next scam.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #133 on: March 07, 2019, 10:07:20 am »
Kickstarter did not contact Solus before suspending it it seems.

I actually don't agree with that, and explanatory email should have been sent before or at the same time. But it seems this all just happened minutes ago and I just happened to check shortly after someone posted that tweet.
Someone says their pledge was cancelled, so maybe KS have actually cancelled it?  :-//
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #134 on: March 07, 2019, 10:09:36 am »
I suspect Solus will simply realise their chances of succeeding with this scam is slim to none and will cleanse their campaign and remove references to "most efficient radiator in the world" and all mentions of graphene generating heat after power is disconnected.

I'm wouldn't be so sure. Many people who run these kinds of things do genuinely believe in what they are doing actually works.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #135 on: March 07, 2019, 10:12:36 am »
I suspect Solus will simply realise their chances of succeeding with this scam is slim to none and will cleanse their campaign and remove references to "most efficient radiator in the world" and all mentions of graphene generating heat after power is disconnected.

I'm wouldn't be so sure. Many people who run these kinds of things do genuinely believe in what they are doing actually works.

I honestly can't believe some people can be that stupid and deluded... but then again... Scientology is a thing.
 

Offline Nusa

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #136 on: March 07, 2019, 10:35:32 am »
Technical claims aside, someone may have realized that this rule was probably being violated:

Quote
Projects that share things that already exist, or repackage a previously-created product, without adding anything new or aiming to iterate on the idea in any way.
(underline added)

Electric radiant heaters are all over the place, as a simple search will demonstrate.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #137 on: March 07, 2019, 10:43:57 am »
Technical claims aside, someone may have realized that this rule was probably being violated:

Quote
Projects that share things that already exist, or repackage a previously-created product, without adding anything new or aiming to iterate on the idea in any way.
(underline added)

Electric radiant heaters are all over the place, as a simple search will demonstrate.

Even the concept of using graphene is not new, as I showed in my video, a company was previous shut down by the government for exactly the same product and claims.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #138 on: March 07, 2019, 12:01:11 pm »
They have no clue why it was suspended, but of course Kickstarter approved it in the first place, so obviously their claims are valid  ::)

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #139 on: March 07, 2019, 12:05:45 pm »
Hmm, you sign up for the mailing list and they have their address in Leeds UK.
So the compaign is listed in Switzerland, their own factory is in Latvia, and the company is listed in the UK  :-//

This guy is the head of strategy at Koleda and is based in Leeds, so that makes sense.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/toma-paro-2791a960/
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 12:08:19 pm by EEVblog »
 


Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #141 on: March 07, 2019, 01:09:05 pm »
This is now tricky business because it possibly puts some sort of legal liability on Kickstarter if they suspend it, evaluate the claims, and then reinstate it?

I haven't been following all of the recent events but I honestly believe that some of these clown funding organisations deserve a good kick in the arse, their lack of filtering and monitoring gives the entire process a bad name and hinders good products and reputable campaigns.   :( ::)
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #142 on: March 07, 2019, 01:44:01 pm »
Well, if Kickstarter is not taking down obvious scams despite being warned by the engineering/scientific community, we can only conclude that they are in on it and are opening themselves up to class action lawsuits down the road.  All it will take is for a creative lawyer to do the math on this...

I expect them to eventually use an excuse like "We don't want to stifle true innovation", and of course the classic "they laughed at the Wright brothers" line.
Maybe not having someone on staff with the knowledge to make a call on technical stuff like this is a deliberate move?

Looks like if enough people complain [and you make a video about it...], Kickstarter will put a stop to it. 

They cannot avoid legal responsibility if they knowingly permit fraudulent activity on their site that they benefit from. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 01:48:35 pm by SilverSolder »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #143 on: March 07, 2019, 01:49:01 pm »
Maxim Interbrick is a rather unique name...

https://www.fbomedia.ch/about-us/

https://blueskynews.aero/issue_260/ClearChannel_and_Adlux_create_first_global_private_aviation_digital_advertising_network.htm

https://www.engagelink.net/about.html

This certainly seems like an oddball group.
This Maxim guy who is a media networking promotions blah blah guy, another marketing/strategy guy in the UK, and who else?
They are probably just subtracting out the whole shebang
 

Offline Andrew McNamara

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #144 on: March 07, 2019, 02:40:31 pm »
This certainly seems like an oddball group.
This Maxim guy who is a media networking promotions blah blah guy, another marketing/strategy guy in the UK, and who else?
They are probably just subtracting out the whole shebang

I did find photos, and they appear to show the same guy - there does appear to be only one Maxim Interbrick.

There were some more personal links, which I didn't include (easy enough to find, though) - he seems to be a real person.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #145 on: March 07, 2019, 02:50:44 pm »
Yep, it's been suspended with 10 hours left
Doesn't mean it's cancelled, I suspect they are going to ask Solus to prove their claims.
This is now tricky business because it possibly puts some sort of legal liability on Kickstarter if they suspend it, evaluate the claims, and then reinstate it?

Point 6 of their terms of use tries to exclude any liability. But might not be valid if they get sued. But in this case it is simple: It is a clear violation of their rules. Unless I missed it, Solus didn't provide a controlled test, like using a $10 heater for heating a room for a day with temperature measurements, and then using the panel for the same room and it has the same temperature curve, but needed only 20% of the energy.

Their test video where Solus needs only 66% compared to an oil heater is bullshit, because they measured the temperature only once at the beginning and then once after 24 hours. So probably the oil heater has heated the room to 20°C in an hour, and then maintained this for the other 23 hours, but we don't know how long Solus needed to reach this temperature. He even says in the video that it is more effective if you do the test for a week. Sure, if you want to freeze for 6 days until it gets to 20°C at day 7, then Solus is perfect for you and it might even work for bigger rooms :-DD

I reported it as well two days ago and got the same eMail:



Maybe they have some threshold, like ignore less than 10 reports and only then take a look at the project.
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #146 on: March 07, 2019, 02:56:37 pm »
Maybe they have some threshold, like ignore less than 10 reports and only then take a look at the project.

Likely, unless it's absolutely obvious to the non-technical Joe Average they have working in the trust and safety review team.
And you can't expect a Joe Average with no engineering experience to evaluate something like this, because on the surface it seems like a genuine campaign, with genuine responses to questions and genuine tests etc. It's only upon inspection of the finer technical details of the claims does this fall apart.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #147 on: March 07, 2019, 05:30:48 pm »
They should make enough money by now to hire one or more good engineers to review the problem cases. It would be useful for their reputation.
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #148 on: March 07, 2019, 07:05:44 pm »
More comments

 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: EEVblog #1186 - Solus Graphene Heater Kickstarter BUSTED!
« Reply #149 on: March 07, 2019, 07:33:06 pm »
That won't be getting un-suspended.

There's a least one in the comments who still wants one. :horse:
 


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