Author Topic: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab  (Read 41582 times)

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Offline SnakeBite

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EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« on: April 29, 2011, 11:59:22 PM »
i just finish watching the eevblog #168 on youtube and here is dave's conclusions  :



[] two multimeter - stick to the brand names like bk precision , amprobe , uni-t , extech   , must have uA range , nice to have temperature option(get thermocouple)  - 50$ each
     []pocket multimeter - 20$
     [] voltage dectector - if you work with the mains.
[] oscilloscope - don't get near USB scope and nano scope just digital bench one , still recommand the rigol ds1052e - 400$ ,
     []analog scope- recommand also to have analog scope as well, 20mhz dual channel.
[]function generator - 2hz-5mhz freq. range,  instek 1003 is a bargain- 150$
[]bench power supply [email protected] - at least two or get dual rail PS , get one with variable voltage and current with 10 turn pot NOT single turn or with fine and corse - 100$
[]soldering station - stick to brands name - hakko , metcal ,pace , weller ... , get a chisel tip not the conical, get one with variable temperature - 100$ + 20$ (tips)
    []hot air station - nice to have if you got a need for it for melting heatshrink and smd rework -60$
[]solder - get the 60/40 not the lead free , rusin core flux get 0.5mm or  0.02" and under diameter - 20$
    [] solder spool holder - nice to have.
[]solder wick - 2.2mm for general use , get quality brand - 20$
[]solder sucker pump - 5$
[]flux pen - for smd use - 5$
[]fine Straight tweezers - important to get anti magnetic and stainless -10$
[]fume extractor & safty goggles - you can get the full size one with the filter but they're expensive so you can just take a fan that blows air and keep the fume away - 20$
[]magnifier device - don't need to get high end microscope  you can buy hand magnifier with 4x - 10x magnification to inspect soldering joints  and to read parts numbers on ICs  you can buy
  head magnifier as well , you can also get the magnifier lamps .
[]interconnects - BNC to banana and vice versa , bnc splitter etc.. - 20$
[]side cutters - make sure that the under side of the blade is flat - 10$
[]pliers - niddle nose,blunt nose - 10$
[]wire strippers - auto adjustable one are nice  or you can use your side cutters - 10$
[]allen key and spanner kits - for pots and general use - 10$
[]hot glue gun - 10$
[]set of files   - you can get nibbler if you want to make holes in a front panel - 15$
[]X-Acto knife or utility knife - with replaceable blades - 10$
[]ruler and digital caliper - 30$
[]screwdrivers and screwdrivers sets - all bunch of screwdriver - plat head , philips , hex etc... - 50$
    []magnet -to magnetize or demagnetize you screwdriver
    [] plastic screwdriver - if you doing a lot of trim pots and capactior pots.
[]dave cad  ;) - self adhesive paper notes - 5$
[]heatshrinks in different sizes and crimp terminals kit is nice too - 10$
[]leads and alot of them - alligetor to spade , bnc to banana , alligetor to alligetor  , bnc to alligetor , bnc to bnc , banana to alligtor , alligetor for you multimeter... - 50$
[]tapes - electrical tape ,  duct tape , double side tape , masking tape... - 15$ 
[]wires - solid core 30awg , ribbon cable , power cables etc... - 50$
[]bread board - two will be better ,  double size is good , buy jumper wires or buy a spool and cut you own - 30$
[]vera board or strip board - if you into vera board prototyping get vera board cutter to cut off a copper strips  - 30$
[]spray - electronic cleaning solvent and compressed air
[]dremel of other Rotary tool - if you can afford one.
[]electronics components - through hole and smd , resistors , inductors ,  leds , voltage regulators ,  transistrors etc... - 50$
[]esd mat - with wrist strap - 50$
[]bin to throw away all you failed projects


i think you need also :

*a vise to hold the PCB while soldering
*a bottle of alcohole 90% or more to clean stuff
*good light sourse
*some oil spray like WD-40 to freeup somw stuck bolts
*esr meter
*capacitor meter

what do you think?
Ido

p.s. i'm sorry if i got spelling errors , english isn't my mother language.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 12:07:22 AM by SnakeBite »
Ido Aricha , Israel.
 
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Offline adam_lumpkins

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2011, 12:44:16 AM »
I think you will also need pin extractor tools for wire looms.  Also if you have flouresent lighting add a few incondesent bulbs so you dont get  headache. "do to the fluresent osalation"
 

Offline buxtronix

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2011, 01:00:14 AM »
A nice summary! It'd be nice to see a followup sometime, more on the bench layout, as I have been setting up
my home lab and spent ages getting everything laid out in easy reach. he following have
proven absolutely essential (more on the setup and convenience):

- One of those movable lamps (the type with the dual arms and springs) so you can get light where you need it. I hacked mine with a pushbutton switch on the lamp head, much better than reaching for the inline cord switch.

- Shelving is critical when you have more than a very basic lab.

- A dowel for storing spools of wire (mounted under a shelf).

- Multi-drawer parts boxes. In fact, lots of little storage bins, you will fill them.

- Lots of power points! (Count how many you think you need and double it)

- For thru-hole work, a calibrated lead-bender is handy (has slots for different lengths)

- Helping hands (those stands with alligator clips for holding boards)

- A bench vise.

- most importantly, the bench must be DEEP. Dont use one of those crappy little ikea desks. I bought an
office grade desk that's 900mmx1800mm. You will need lots of space between the tools at the back and you.

With all this, my home lab is a joy to work with, with stuff in easy reach and the right gear at hand.

 

Offline Fryguy

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2011, 01:12:44 AM »
A good quality LCR meter is a nice thing to get - especially if you intent to harvest and use electronic components from the junkyard or make your own special (e.g. RF or HV) inductors and stuff . . . .  ;)  

I don't recommend to use a multimeter to do an LCR-meters job .  ::)

A 900mm desk is a fine size to work on if you've got modern equipment - if you've got some vintage lab equipment 900mm might not be enough - I've got a Tek 7603 Oscilloscope , an east-german made bench meter with 5-digit nixie tube display and a powerful israeli made bench powersupply (28V/15A with the 10 turn pots - the ones Dave likes so much - for voltage and current) .
Those units are all from the 70's , around 550 mm front to back and weigh a metric ton . . .   ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 07:33:16 AM by Fryguy »
May the forces of evil get confused on their way to your home !
 

Offline david77

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2011, 01:40:05 AM »
A good summary, I'll second the table vice though. One of those mounted on a swively clamp thingy that you attach to your bench, they are damn handy.
Also I have recently aquired a PCB holder, that's a neat tool to have but not essential.

I'd recommend one of those 30V/3A power supplies, even though you may not need it often the day will come when you need a bit more juice for your newest project.

I have a special box labeled "Might become useful in future" where failed projects and other accumulated junk (that's not really junk!) end up in. Often I can salvage some component from one of the boards in there.

To be honest, for general use on THT boards I much prefer 1mm solder wire to the thinner stuff and I almost exclusively us a conical tip on my iron. That depends on individual taste, I guess.
 

Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2011, 02:12:28 AM »
Great job snakebite, you basically gave the action summary of the whole video.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline sacherjj

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2011, 02:38:37 AM »
I've found little cases in the craft department of WalMart in the US.  20 compartments for $2.  Great for storing components.  I just stack them with labels on the side for resistance ranges, cap ranges, etc.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2011, 10:29:54 AM »
A few minor comments :
Solder - <=0.5mm is essential but expensive - get some 0.8 or 1.0mm as well for bigger jobs to save wasting the more expensive stuff. Solder with 2% silver is nice as melting point is lower. Absolutely avoid leadfree. 

Braid/solder wick - anything less then about 3mm saturates very quickly so gets used up rapidly - on the odd occasions you need a small size, cut a wedge on the end of wider stuff. I highly recommend Chemtronics Soder-wick (bloody Yanks can't spell Solder).

Soldering irons - get a selection of different tip sizes, including the biggest and smallest available for your iron as well as a 2-3mm for general purpose use. Totally agree that conical tips are useless - no ideal why anyone makes them. Whatever brand you buy, make sure tips are readily available. If you can't get a range of tips at the same time you order the iron, don't buy that iron.

Spray cans - as well as the ones Dave showed you need flux solvent, e.g. Electrolube fluxclene. 
 
Crimps - if you get a box of crimp terminals get a proper ratchet crimp tool like this

 the cheap plier type that Dave showed in the strippers section are useless at crimping reliably. The ones with screw cutters are handy for shortening screws though.

A major omission was a nice bright, movable bench light - small halogen or LED. Halogens get a bit hot though.
I highly recommend getting a couple  of Ikea Jansjo desk lamps

Nice small heads that don't run too hot and you can point them exactly where you need them.

As regards power supplies, it is very important that it has voltage and current metering at the same time - not a single meter that  has to be switched between functions. Current limit is essential. Dual-tracking much less so these days - split supplies are pretty rare these days.
You want something that goes to 30V as 24V devices are pretty common.   

2 meters (or more) absolutely, but don't  get two the same. Different feature sets will cover a wider range of functions and less likely for the cal to drift the same way. At least one must have a 10 amp current range. Get spare fuses.
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Offline kek

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2011, 12:20:50 PM »
Fantastic stuff!

I picked up a portable drill press vice a number of years ago for about $20. It holds a PCB very nicely and has enough heft to stay put.


...link to large image http://sites.google.com/site/kenselectronicsprojects/poject-pictures/IMG_0138.JPG

Ken
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2011, 12:54:06 PM »
Awesome summary, thanks SnakeBite!

I deliberately left out an LCR meter, as I thought it was debatable as an absolute "essential". Entirely depends on what you are into of course, essential for some, hardly ever used for others, and a decent one adds say $200 to the total.
Forgot about lights  ::)

Dave.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2011, 01:03:17 PM »
Great video Dave. I would suggest a pcb holder. Having said that I've gone 20 years without needing one or should I say doing without one. Bought my first one two days ago, the Jaycar one with the mag glass. Very handy, but a little hard to get used to..

 

Offline tesla500

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2011, 01:56:34 PM »
Great video! One item I find useful, although isn't really essential, is an isolated current probe. This could be a DIY probe using a sensor such as http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=398-1034-ND costing about $30, or a full blown professional system like the Tek A6302/AM503 which can be had on ebay for $500-$1k. It's incredible how well these probes hold their value, I don't know of any other piece of test equipment that still sells used for half it's original price 30 years later!

A word of warning on using dusting gas as cold spray: The cheap kind (R502, may be listed on the can as Chlorodifluoromethane) is flammable when shot out as a liquid. And to top it off, one of the combustion products is hydrogen fluoride, which turns into hydrofluoric acid on contact with moisture in your lungs! Nasty stuff.

So if you think your circuit could blow up and cause a spark when cooling it, use the good (expensive) R134A dusting gas which isn't flammable. This may be listed on the can as 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane. One reason cold spray is always more expensive is because they have to use the more expensive R134A gas.

David
 

Offline Psi

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2011, 05:52:24 PM »
i recommend a set of files and hooks
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline metalphreak

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2011, 07:12:26 PM »
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/aluminum-soldering-scraper-tool-36128

Have like 5 of these. So handy for so many things. Lifting ICs when desoldering, removing DIP package chips from sockets, cutting traces (strip board etc).

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/soldering-iron-tip-cleaner-black-34154

Also worth getting one of these if your soldering iron didn't come with one. Especially if you are too lazy to wet the sponge that comes with most ;) If you ever need to replace the wire stuff inside, a regular stainless steel scrubbing thing works fine.

Offline TheWelly888

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2011, 09:52:39 PM »
I don't bother with air duster cans, I use one of those rubber squeezy bulb blowers that are sold for blowing dust off camera lens instead. On the other hand, I just blow the dust off with my breath...  ;)

I remember setting out in electronics and the absolute minimum electronics tools one must have are a multimeter, soldering iron, solder, solderwick, breadboard/veroboard, single core wires for jumpers and flush side cutters. Knives, screwdrivers, pliers and spanners can be used for other things so ought to be in your garage/shed anyway.

Please, Dave, keep your fingers away from the edge of the scalpel blade, I know it's old and blunt looking but it made my toes curl watching you feeling the blade!  :o
You can do anything with the right attitude and a hammer.
 

Offline torch

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2011, 11:27:00 PM »
Regarding the function generator, I was looking at this http://www.hantek.com.cn/english/news_list.asp?unid=13 arbitrary waveform generator. It's about the same price as the Instek Dave mentioned, and sounds good on paper. 1KHz to 25MHz (up to 75MHz for sine wave), single channel output plus a 12-bit digital logic output. The waveform has to be entered by computer, but it can continue to run without the computer thereafter. You can choose from a menu of standard waveforms or create your own. Apparently it can read Tek CSV files and duplicate a previously measured waveform. The manual seems to be a better effort than many Chinglesh documents.

Stability is listed as <30ppm, output as +/-3.5v, 50mA Ipeak=100mA and distortion as -50dBc(1KHz), -40dBc(10KHz).

(For comparison, the Instek  stability is listed as +/- 20ppm, output +/-5v (no mention of current), and distortion as >-55dBc, 0.1Hz ~ 200kHz)

Has anyone used one of these? Is it worthwhile or something akin to a usb oscilloscope in functionality?
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2011, 12:53:55 AM »
Regarding the function generator, I was looking at this http://www.hantek.com.cn/english/news_list.asp?unid=13 arbitrary waveform generator....Has anyone used one of these? Is it worthwhile or something akin to a usb oscilloscope in functionality?
how can you miss such a party?... Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?  (Read 4922 times). you should be around more frequently. and its not 75MHz sine generator as advertised, its 100MHz.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 12:55:37 AM by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline djsb

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2011, 01:26:33 AM »
What type of tweezers do people recommend for handling/positioning surface mount components. Just had a look on Farnells site and there are a confusing selection. I need a basic set that can handle 1206 chip caps/resistors and small SOIC IC's. Also does anyone sell stainless toothpicks for positioning parts under a microscope?
Thanks.

David.
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2011, 02:38:48 AM »
What type of tweezers do people recommend for handling/positioning surface mount components. Just had a look on Farnells site and there are a confusing selection. I need a basic set that can handle 1206 chip caps/resistors and small SOIC IC's. Also does anyone sell stainless toothpicks for positioning parts under a microscope?
Thanks.

David.
See : http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=18814&sid=0f5a06264473cd73fbbf54feac5cb54e#p97504

You don't need toothpicks - just use tweezers closed.
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Offline Russel

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2011, 02:48:41 AM »
I prefer Dumont tweezers, #2 straight for general purpose, and #5 for fine work.

Tweezers at Otto Frei and Jules Borel
 

Offline Chet T16

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2011, 03:03:05 AM »
how can you miss such a party?... Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?  (Read 4922 times). you should be around more frequently. and its not 75MHz sine generator as advertised, its 100MHz.


Whats the final verdict? I skimmed through the thread and as a summary it went -> cheap -> bit crap -> Mechatrommer is a god -> offtopic. Is it worth a buy?
Chet
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Online Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2011, 03:16:09 AM »
Whats the final verdict? I skimmed through the thread and as a summary it went -> cheap -> bit crap -> Mechatrommer is a god -> offtopic. Is it worth a buy?
you do the math, dont ask others to do a simple favor as that. and i dont see "Mechatrommer is a god" anywhere, its only in your illusional mind.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Chet T16

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2011, 03:18:18 AM »
you do the math, dont ask others to do a simple favor as that. and i dont see "Mechatrommer is a god" anywhere, its only in your illusional mind.


Its certainly full of high praise, i did say a summary ;)
Chet
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Studying ME Computer and Electronics
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2011, 03:29:15 AM »
Its certainly full of high praise, i did say a summary ;)
"Is it worth a buy?" skimmed through again, and this time with details and deep thought, put your illusion aside. you've been foolish to read what you dont want to read. btw, who's been off topic?
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Wim_L

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2011, 03:58:52 AM »
Tweezers: be careful with the cheap sets, as they may not only be physically too weak and flexible, but the tips might not even match up correctly. Better one or two high quality ones than a whole bag of useless ones. 10 - 20 EUR should be a good price, no need to go for 50 EUR tweezers unless you're working with really nasty corrosive tuff.

Knife: I've found cheap ones of the type shown in the video often have poor blade retention when you have to put more force on things than usual. These blades generally have a hole the handle can fix internally to prevent that problem, but the cheaper varieties rarely clamp down properly leading to a very sloppy fit. Surgical scalpels are a superior tool. A stainless steel #4 hilt has a decent selection of blade shapes available for it, and they're not much more expensive at all (very fine blades will require a different hilt number, check that you buy compatible hilt and blades). Downside is that the blades are intended for one-time use in surgery and generally do not come with caps to protect you from the blade in storage, so better store them somewhere you won't accidentally grab them...



Fire extinguisher... Yeah, good idea, but there are plenty of pitfalls to be aware of. They're not all that expensive, but do need maintenance or, in the case of compact ones, replacement every few years. The commonly encountered types are:

- water: really cheap, low effectiveness compared to most others, can't be used where it may freeze. Wouldn't really recommend this one for an electronics lab - or anywhere.

- foam: water with additives. A highly effective extinguishing agent, but not cheap and needs regular maintenance intervals. Don't freeze. Some of the more sophisticated ones have nozzles that break up the foam so they can be used on live wires without electrocuting the user. Small fires extinguished with foam tend to stay out because the foam covers the material pretty well. Excellent for burning frying pans, trash cans, gasoline,... Probably overkill for an electronics lab. Useless on gas fires, but that probably doesn't matter here (and you probably shouldn't be fighting gas fires unless you really know what you're doing anyway).

- Powder: Pretty cheap and readily available. For domestic use prefer ABC powder over the BC powder commonly found in small extinguishers for use in cars. ABC is a more general purpose agent while BC is optimised for fuel fires but less effective on solid matter. Cleanup after use is a nightmare in an electronics lab, the fine powder attracts moisture and any electronic equipment affected by it will need to be cleaned very thoroughly or be destroyed by corrosion (of course, if you've got a fire, use it anyway, better to lose some tools than to lose the house). Properly used, this is perhaps the most effective type of extinguisher to rapidly knock down big flames and extinguish a freshly started but rapidly spreading fire. It's less effective on materials like wood or paper that have been on fire for a while. It will extinguish the fire all right, but expect reignition of hot material after the powder settles (almost always happens when typical household garbage is set on fire). Visibility can also be a problem when using large quantities of powder in small rooms.

- CO2: lower effectiveness compared to powder, but usually all you need for small, freshly started fires. All other types above use a CO2 cartridge to propel the extinguishing agent, this type however isa pressure cylinder containing only CO2. That does make them expensive (strong, heavy construction) and a hazard in the same way any large compressed gas bottle is dangerous. Other than that, they're an extremely simple and reliable design. Position them so they cannot fall over and get the valve knocked off. Possible asphyxiation hazard in really small rooms (but most likely no worse than the toxic smoke from the fire itself). The gas cools (can actually form dry ice crystals out of the nozzle) and is a frostbite hazard. The bottle itself also becomes a frostbite hazard (do not touch with bare skin after use!) No cleanup at all, which makes this a favourite in electronics and many chemistry labs.

All extinguishers that are reasonable portable will only give 15 seconds of use at most, often much less. Small car extinguishers might give you 4 seconds if you're lucky, but are likely to fail altogether if stored in a car for a while.

- fire blanket: usually glass fiber (avoid old style asbestos fiber) no maintenance, dirt cheap, and if used on stuff that isn't too volatile often good enough to smother a fire.
 

Offline tecman

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2011, 04:07:06 AM »
One more observation.  If you are planning to do critical audio work, the function generator may not be the first choice.  You would want a generator with very low distortion.  Usually what is typically called an audio generator is desired.  Sine only, sometimes with square as well, but you can get them with 0.001% harmonic distortion.  Older HPs and some Tek TM500's are available on eBay for a reasonable price.

paul
 

Offline Ernie Milko

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2011, 04:23:06 AM »
A very good video, I thought.
 

Offline Chet T16

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2011, 04:26:39 AM »
"Is it worth a buy?" skimmed through again, and this time with details and deep thought, put your illusion aside. you've been foolish to read what you dont want to read. btw, who's been off topic?


You seem set on taking my lighthearted comments the wrong way!

Chet
www.chet.ie - projects/electronics blog
BSc Engineering Science - Electronics
Studying ME Computer and Electronics
 

Offline squeezee

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2011, 06:11:15 AM »
What type of tweezers do people recommend for handling/positioning surface mount components. Just had a look on Farnells site and there are a confusing selection. I need a basic set that can handle 1206 chip caps/resistors and small SOIC IC's. Also does anyone sell stainless toothpicks for positioning parts under a microscope?
Thanks.

David.
You can use a cheap set of dental picks. Distributors sell them as well (eg. digikey), check in the "Scribers & Probes" category on farnell.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2011, 09:33:15 AM »
One more observation.  If you are planning to do critical audio work, the function generator may not be the first choice.  You would want a generator with very low distortion.  Usually what is typically called an audio generator is desired.  Sine only, sometimes with square as well, but you can get them with 0.001% harmonic distortion.  Older HPs and some Tek TM500's are available on eBay for a reasonable price.

paul

A PC soundcard or external USB audio interface may well  give you better quality audio-band waveforms than a function generator.
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Offline johnmx

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2011, 09:57:23 AM »
I would like to show you how I organize the spare parts. I have an updated list of all components (IC’s, diodes and transistors) and keep them in small boxes which are labeled (see attached image).
This list (excel file) has several pages, one for each part type: uC, opamp, regulators, etc.
Each line corresponds to a single part and has all the information needed: exact model number, quantity, SMD or through-hole indication, small description with the most important features, link to data sheet and finally the box number where it is stored.
This list is very useful when developing a new project. In this way I always know what components I have or not and the respective packages in case I’m designing the PCB.
Best regards,
johnmx
 

Offline AdShea

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2011, 10:01:12 AM »
I'd suggest putting a bit more into tweezers (only 12USD) and get a really nice pair.  I've got some of these http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=243-1096-ND&x=0&y=0 and the big blue grip is totally worth it.  By not making me grip so close I've found I can even do 0603 without magnification now.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2011, 05:08:13 PM »
"Is it worth a buy?" skimmed through again, and this time with details and deep thought, put your illusion aside. you've been foolish to read what you dont want to read. btw, who's been off topic?
You seem set on taking my lighthearted comments the wrong way!
i'm sorry if its misinterpreted (maybe just my illusion). but be carefull with your statement, there's people with not so lighthearted here. and you simple joke of "mech is a god->off topic" might not work with others, esp me.

anyway just want to add to the collection... i have this in my lab (workroom)...

« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 05:16:26 PM by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline FreeThinker

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2011, 08:32:46 PM »
Can't believe anyone has not mentioned one of these before... absolutely essential http://www.joke-archives.com/oddsends/achtung.html
Machines were mice and Men were lions once upon a time, but now that it's the opposite it's twice upon a time.
MOONDOG
 

Offline Cj1corbystarlet

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2011, 08:51:08 PM »
A good nudie calender on the wall never goes astray.   :P
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2011, 10:00:07 PM »
A good nudie calender on the wall never goes astray.   :P

Do not mix the standard tools of Electricians,
with the those for Electronics Lab  ;D

They have an nudie calender with the Arduino on it.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 10:04:16 PM by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline tecman

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2011, 02:47:06 AM »


Do not mix the standard tools of Electricians,
with the those for Electronics Lab  ;D

They have an nudie calender with the Arduino on it.

I hate to disagree with a fellow countryman (sort of, I am second generation greek-american), but many projects eventually require electricians tools for striping, crimping, cutting and wiring things.  Although most electrician's tools do not sit on my bench, they are in the toolbox 6 feet away.

paul
 

Offline dengorius

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2011, 03:43:13 AM »
In case anybody is interested, this is the power supply kit from Silicon Chip that Dave mentions in the video

Article: http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30603/article.html
Front/Rear panel: http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/downloads/articles/30603_quad_power_supply_panels_fr.pdf
Front PCB: http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/downloads/articles/30603_quadpowersupply_front_pcb.pdf
Main PCB: http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/downloads/articles/30603_quad_power_supply_main_pcb.pdf

Unfortunately if you want all the details you have to purchase the article from the first link

Cya :)
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2011, 04:05:50 AM »
Hello Paul , I was exclusively refer to the wall calendar post .  ( that was an smart made joke )  :)


Regards
Kiriakos
 

Offline kcs

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2011, 06:20:31 AM »
Which soldering wire out of these three should I pick? In the video Dave told to choose 60/40 one but then he agreed with someone on youteube, that 63/37 is better choice, but I cannot find such one.

One more question - why is the last one in the list so expensive?
 

Offline SnakeBite

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2011, 06:33:16 AM »
60/40 was a standart solder for many years it included tin and lead and today it more comon to use 63/37 solder because it has lower melting temperature and it has lightly greater mechanical
strength.

you can read the rest here
http://www.edaboard.co.uk/60-40-vs-63-37-solder-t469133.html
Ido Aricha , Israel.
 

Offline david77

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2011, 06:34:55 AM »
The last one has a bit of silver in it, that bumps the price up a bit.
However, I do find all of those three rather expensive. Why not pick a 0,5mm for half the price?

Like this one: http://uk.farnell.com/multicore-solder/3096525-m/solder-wire-60-40-0-5mm-250g/dp/5090787

 

Offline tecman

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2011, 08:06:40 AM »
Which soldering wire out of these three should I pick? In the video Dave told to choose 60/40 one but then he agreed with someone on youteube, that 63/37 is better choice, but I cannot find such one.

One more question - why is the last one in the list so expensive?


You should try to get 63/37.  It is known as eutectic solder.  This means that it is an allow that has only solid and liquid states (other than vapor at high temps).  All other alloys have a third "shush" state.  If you do a lot of soldering with 50/50 or 60/40 you will remember the slush state.  This means that 63/37 is a bit easier to work with, and has the same basic properties of 60/40.

paul
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2011, 10:07:42 AM »
Well I will add too an suggestion about a tool  ;)

I got it for heatshrink tubes, but now I use it for many more tasks.
Drying out washed PCB , softening plastics , testing K probes,  and many more applications..

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1093.0   

 
 

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2011, 11:15:34 AM »
Well I will add too an suggestion about a tool  ;)

I got it for heatshrink tubes, but now I use it for many more tasks.

The secret to that immaculate Kiriakos blow wave is finally out.   ;D
 

Offline amigo

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2011, 11:56:20 AM »
I thought I read that reason we should use 63/37 solder is because the melting points of the compounds are close to/identical, as opposed to 60/40 whereas one would melt sooner than the other and make a mess of the soldering work.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2011, 02:33:53 PM »
Well I will add too an suggestion about a tool  ;)

I got it for heatshrink tubes, but now I use it for many more tasks.

The secret to that immaculate Kiriakos blow wave is finally out.   ;D

I have an small difficulty to translate the text 100% , but it looks that it says goods things for me ..  :D

Long live the Uncle Vernon   ;)
 

Online johnwa

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2011, 08:11:56 PM »
One useful category of items is resistance/capacitance substitution boxes. Even a 100k pot with some croc clip leads attached can be quite useful. If you don't know what you're doing when designing something, just substitute the pot for a fixed resistor, adjust until your circuit works best, measure the pot, and now you know what value resistor to use :) Put a 1k in series with the wiper, so you don't blow stuff up when you turn it all one way.

I agree with the suggestion of croc clip jumper leads - they are good for prototyping circuits that exceed the power handling capabilities of a breadboard.

You will probably be building things with mains power supplies eventually, so an isolation transformer and insulation tester are a good idea.
 

Offline kcs

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2011, 08:54:32 PM »
Which soldering wire out of these three should I pick? In the video Dave told to choose 60/40 one but then he agreed with someone on youteube, that 63/37 is better choice, but I cannot find such one.

One more question - why is the last one in the list so expensive?


You should try to get 63/37.  It is known as eutectic solder.  This means that it is an allow that has only solid and liquid states (other than vapor at high temps).  All other alloys have a third "shush" state.  If you do a lot of soldering with 50/50 or 60/40 you will remember the slush state.  This means that 63/37 is a bit easier to work with, and has the same basic properties of 60/40.

paul


So I should pick this one - 62/36/2 Sn/Pb/Ag?
 

Offline tecman

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2011, 12:21:21 AM »
I thought I read that reason we should use 63/37 solder is because the melting points of the compounds are close to/identical, as opposed to 60/40 whereas one would melt sooner than the other and make a mess of the soldering work.

Here is a brief explanation:  http://www.ami.ac.uk/courses/topics/0244_tsm/index.html

Paul
 

Offline tekfan

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2011, 01:53:16 AM »
Here's a very complete description of a pretty advanced electronics lab.

http://www.timefracture.org/labdocs/lab_notes.html

And photos:
http://www.timefracture.org/lab.html

He's got all the right stuff. This should be featured in WOTW on Theamphour.
One can never have enough oscilloscopes.
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2011, 09:09:14 AM »
I have to say something about soldering irons that plugs directly to mains. In my opinion the good brands (Weller, JBC etc) are much better than the cheap ones that provide temperature control.

For years now I am using a JBC 30S. I also have a mains socket that is controlled by an incandescent lamp dimmer. I have "mapped" the dimer's position with the temperature of the iron tip and...
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline david77

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2011, 09:20:10 AM »
Yes, a simple good brand soldering iron is good to have, in my case it's an Ersa Multitip 25. I use it for quick fixes around the house or the car, it lives in my electricians toolbox.
But for the lab you really want a proper soldering station. After all, with the money spent  on a good iron, a stand and maybe a dimmer switch & socket you could have bought a reasonable quality chinese soldering station aswell.

 

Offline amigo

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2011, 09:36:48 AM »
Here's a very complete description of a pretty advanced electronics lab.

http://www.timefracture.org/labdocs/lab_notes.html

And photos:
http://www.timefracture.org/lab.html

He's got all the right stuff. This should be featured in WOTW on Theamphour.

tekfan,

I can't get to that site, the server is refusing connections. Does it still work for you?
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2011, 09:41:33 AM »
Yes, a simple good brand soldering iron is good to have, in my case it's an Ersa Multitip 25. I use it for quick fixes around the house or the car, it lives in my electricians toolbox.
But for the lab you really want a proper soldering station. After all, with the money spent  on a good iron, a stand and maybe a dimmer switch & socket you could have bought a reasonable quality chinese soldering station aswell.

Yes. You have to have both. And I do. But I really enjoy a lot more using my "good" soldering iron than the fancy cheap stations (well not that cheap. Cheap relative to the branded ones).

The main difference is the alloys used for the tips and the main body.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline lowimpedance

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2011, 10:11:13 AM »
 Excuse me if this has allready been mentioned, (looked through the posts and not noticed!)

Another essential item is a large 'heat capacity' soldering iron such as the Scope (see link) or similar.
Great for getting heat into those larger copper jobs (wiring, copper ground planes etc).


http://www.wiltronics.com.au/catalogue/509/test-equipment_tools/tools/soldering-irons/scope-soldering-irons/
You call that current ?.......
I'll show you current !
 the odd multimeter or 2 or 3 or 4...or........never mind
 

Offline torch

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2011, 01:36:35 PM »
how can you miss such a party?... Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?  (Read 4922 times). you should be around more frequently. and its not 75MHz sine generator as advertised, its 100MHz.
Geez, that's quite a thread! And some very nice work on fixing the S/W bug. I guess you've convinced me  :D
 

Offline [email protected]

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2011, 04:06:39 PM »
And photos:
http://www.timefracture.org/lab.html

He's got all the right stuff. This should be featured in WOTW on Theamphour.

To neat and tidy. That is a museum, not a home lab.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
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Offline SnakeBite

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2011, 04:46:42 PM »
Excuse me if this has allready been mentioned, (looked through the posts and not noticed!)

Another essential item is a large 'heat capacity' soldering iron such as the Scope (see link) or similar.
Great for getting heat into those larger copper jobs (wiring, copper ground planes etc).


http://www.wiltronics.com.au/catalogue/509/test-equipment_tools/tools/soldering-irons/scope-soldering-irons/

i disagree. it's not very essential . of course it depend on what you doing , some people won't use that iron at all and some very often.
anyway i really don't see the need to get 100w iron for electronics.


nobody had comment about my other item on my list that i've added like:
*esr meter
*capacitor meter

which i think you can't live without.
Ido Aricha , Israel.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2011, 07:09:02 PM »
Another essential item is a large 'heat capacity' soldering iron such as the Scope (see link) or similar.
Great for getting heat into those larger copper jobs (wiring, copper ground planes etc).

Unless you have a Metcal , in which case you just use a big tip when you want to solder TO220 tabs to groundplanes
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Offline lowimpedance

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #60 on: May 04, 2011, 11:39:54 AM »
Excuse me if this has allready been mentioned, (looked through the posts and not noticed!)

Another essential item is a large 'heat capacity' soldering iron such as the Scope (see link) or similar.
Great for getting heat into those larger copper jobs (wiring, copper ground planes etc).


http://www.wiltronics.com.au/catalogue/509/test-equipment_tools/tools/soldering-irons/scope-soldering-irons/

i disagree. it's not very essential . of course it depend on what you doing , some people won't use that iron at all and some very often.
anyway i really don't see the need to get 100w iron for electronics.


nobody had comment about my other item on my list that i've added like:
*esr meter
*capacitor meter

which i think you can't live without.

 Actually from my industrial perspective a larger iron is essential (yes I do electronics and yes I solder more than just PCB's ) and use the 'scope  iron' regularly and that is on some pcb work too. Electronics is just not PCB work.  My home lab has the hakko 936 and the scope and I use both depending on the task requirements.
Ok I will give that hobby labs may not require immediately but given time they will probably aquire one.

As for the ESR and capacitor meter, I think the capacitor meter yes and for the ESR, if you do switchmode ps work etc then yes but not essential when setting up your lab

cheers
John
You call that current ?.......
I'll show you current !
 the odd multimeter or 2 or 3 or 4...or........never mind
 

Offline AdShea

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2011, 01:15:55 PM »
Regarding the big iron, I just use one of the big Metcals (200W, I don't remember the model).  It works for PCB stuff just as well as the RF-heating that Metcals use doesn't overshoot temperature and just keeps providing power until temperature is reached or you run out of power.
 

Offline dengorius

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2011, 02:14:15 PM »

[snip]


nobody had comment about my other item on my list that i've added like:
*esr meter
*capacitor meter

which i think you can't live without.

Well the capacitance meter in included in any decent DMM
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #63 on: May 04, 2011, 03:52:28 PM »
The capacitance meter in most DMMs is not worthy of the name!

They mostly have severely limited range---- I have compared the "C" range on a fairly recent HP with a homemade capacitor checker,& the

home made one was superior.

The HP may have been more accurate within its range,but  if I have a Capacitance meter,I expect it to be useable throughout the normal range

of values I might find.

Having to drag the home made one out when the HP runs out of range defeats the purpose of having a capacitance range in the first place.

There were some very good LC testers made in the 1980s,which include loss readings for the Cs & "Q" for inductors.

These may be available fairly cheaply from time to time.


The other alternative is an old style LCR bridge.


VK6ZGO

 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2011, 07:39:45 PM »
Check the built-in cap meter has decent specs before you buy a MM. I agree with the above poster, a bad capacitance meter is worse than not having one at all.  >:(

Some Meters have a separate port for the capacitor test instead allowing the use of the normal leads. This means you have to insert the two leads of the capacitor into the front of the meter. I thought I wouldn't care until I realized I can't easily check just one capacitor of a few in a new ream. If you have a ream of unused new caps, you either have to remove one from the tape or insert wires and alligator plugs connected to the mystery cap. Sux.

Being able to test capacitors by turning the dial and using the red and black probes is a feature worth having IMO.

BTW, the meter I am referring to is a Digitech QM-1320
http://www.elecspess.com.au/products/product/QM-1320?category=RFOGJVII&

Notice the cap tester holes are located between the amps input and the main dial.
 

Offline Leo Bodnar

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #65 on: May 06, 2011, 09:49:55 AM »
I have recently stumbled across a useful "Starting up an electronics workshop" article here

There are practical suggestions not covered in Dave's blogs like keep careful notes, have lots of junk at hand, etc.
I found it amusing and useful.

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Offline adam_lumpkins

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #67 on: May 08, 2011, 02:41:50 AM »
As for as dental picks go i found some very nice ones at a welding supply for 10 bucks {us}

 http://www.forneyind.com/proddetail.cfm?ProductID=70710
 

Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2011, 02:34:28 AM »
That's interesting to say, vk6zgo, on your home made one vs "HP" how do you know for certain your home made one is the more accurate of the two?

You mean fairly recent Agilent, yes?  As HP has not been in T&M since Agilent was born.

Although I too would be skeptical having recently received an Agilent DMM with those 'not worthy' C range but a valid cal certificate only a few months old, which includes a check of its C range to 1%, its reading is fairly consistent with my other C meters.



The capacitance meter in most DMMs is not worthy of the name!

They mostly have severely limited range---- I have compared the "C" range on a fairly recent HP with a homemade capacitor checker,& the

home made one was superior.


The HP may have been more accurate within its range,but  if I have a Capacitance meter,I expect it to be useable throughout the normal range

of values I might find.

Having to drag the home made one out when the HP runs out of range defeats the purpose of having a capacitance range in the first place.

There were some very good LC testers made in the 1980s,which include loss readings for the Cs & "Q" for inductors.

These may be available fairly cheaply from time to time.


The other alternative is an old style LCR bridge.


VK6ZGO


Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2011, 10:09:00 AM »
That's interesting to say, vk6zgo, on your home made one vs "HP" how do you know for certain your home made one is the more accurate of the two?

You mean fairly recent Agilent, yes?  As HP has not been in T&M since Agilent was born.

Although I too would be skeptical having recently received an Agilent DMM with those 'not worthy' C range but a valid cal certificate only a few months old, which includes a check of its C range to 1%, its reading is fairly consistent with my other C meters.



The capacitance meter in most DMMs is not worthy of the name!

They mostly have severely limited range---- I have compared the "C" range on a fairly recent HP with a homemade capacitor checker,& the

home made one was superior.


The HP may have been more accurate within its range,but  if I have a Capacitance meter,I expect it to be useable throughout the normal range

of values I might find.

Having to drag the home made one out when the HP runs out of range defeats the purpose of having a capacitance range in the first place.

There were some very good LC testers made in the 1980s,which include loss readings for the Cs & "Q" for inductors.

These may be available fairly cheaply from time to time.


The other alternative is an old style LCR bridge.


VK6ZGO


Sorry,--Alzheimers strikes again!!! I should have written Fluke!!
It wasn't accuracy that was the problem,the thing just wouldn't read caps above or below its range.
VK6ZGO




 

Offline Leo Bodnar

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2011, 09:51:56 PM »
Here are the best side cutters for component pins you can get.



Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2011, 02:57:19 AM »
They are!  But depending on its make, you can dull the cutting edge.  These are better, toenail podiatric grade clippers.  Looks familiar but built to last.  About the same price for a good nail clipper, $4-10.  Also strong enough for dogs and cats claws, if you do such things.



Here are the best side cutters for component pins you can get.



Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Mr J

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2011, 01:15:39 AM »
Hey Dave great video, nailed it. The only thing I would add is a digital camera, probably already own one, i think most do now a days. You want to take pics of your projects and build a portfolio. Or even start a blog like mine www.n1ir.com :) I wish I had taken picks of some of my early stuff.
 

Offline torch

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2011, 10:38:29 PM »
I was going to build a power supply, but I was in Sayal electronics (hobby shop in Canada) and came across a 150W power supply board with 3.3V/6A, 5V/3A, 12V/1A , 12V/300mA and 35v/800mA outputs. For $6. I can't buy the parts for that price! No instructions, but once I got it figured out (one of them needs a load or you get a ~800mH sawtooth wave) they all provide a nice steady ripple-free output. I figure on putting it in a box, adding some jacks and maybe an LM317 with a pot on the 35v leg to make it adjustable. A cooling fan on the 12V/300mA leg should make a nice load (I've got a 220 ohm resistor on there at the moment)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 10:40:00 PM by torch »
 

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #74 on: May 15, 2011, 11:25:36 PM »
Are the outputs floating? Do they have an adjustable current limit so your DUT doesn't get fried when you screw something up (6A/3A is a lot for say an ESD protection diode or a bond wire)? Are they short-circuit proof? If it is uses resettable fuses (eg. Polyfuses), keep in mind that they get worse (slower) after being tripped.
 

Offline torch

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2011, 03:00:58 AM »
The outputs are floating right now. There are a couple of ground points that rely on the chassis to sink some caps and the heat sinks back to the mains ground, but none seem to be tied to the output negative. The current limits do not appear to be adjustable, although there does seem to be some sort of short-circuit protection (for the power supply, not the load of course) and the power must be removed to reset it -- sounds like a polyfuse, but I can't read much off the devices down between the heatsinks.

Hey, what do you want for $6?  :D
 

alm

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #76 on: May 16, 2011, 03:21:58 AM »
I won't claim it's bad value for the money, was just trying to assess how well it would do as a bench supply. I expected the negative rail to be connected to the safety ground, so that's a positive ;).

You will need some additional parts (eg. case, jacks/binding posts, current measurement DPMs / power indicators) to make it into something approaching a bench supply.
 

Offline nukie

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #77 on: May 16, 2011, 11:09:07 AM »
I have moved house three times in my life and I find it gets better everytime I build my lab. If you are not moving, well you can start by pulling down everything and start all over again. That is if you have the time and money. I am not kidding, small improvements can only be made to existing setup, starting a fresh gives you freedom and new idea.

Don't just go out there and buy whatever that is mention here unless you are trying to do a combined shipping. There are essential items and some are not so 'needed' so make your own decision wisely. When buying tools for once off use, you can get the nastiest, cheapest of all but if you are using it more than twice then buy something you can afford.

The video didn't talk about the workdesk/table much. So lets have a look.

There are several plans on the www in regards to building heavy duty carpentry desks, have a look at those if your work involves hammer. Building your own desk is exciting and rewarding especially when you can customize it's size to your liking.

If you are not doing anything that involves hammer, a cheap table will suffice, as long as it will support your equipment. You want something deep if you have roomspace. This is because the equipment can take up space and you will be left with reduced work area. If you have access to IKEA then I strongly suggest those height adjustable leg so that you can raise your table closer to eye level so you don't have to do hunch back while working on SMD circuits. This is similar to a watchmaker's desk but not as high. Reduce your fatigue especially working long hours. Don't forget a gas strut height adjustable chair to complement the desk.

Higher desk surface means there's plenty of space between the underdesk and your laps. You should consider a thin sliding drawer, for storing items such as solder wire, wick, tweezers, pliers, cutters, small items etc. This reduce clutter on your desk and a drawer under your table means quick access to your most frequently used tools. Use storage to keep the mess out. You can also have a multilevel drawer that sits under the desk if you have space but I find it better to have a bin there for rubbish.

If your growing out of space for test equipment, it's time to build a desk shelf. If you have a long desk, one or two supports in the middle is good to prevent droop. Some people like to place their desk close to the wall so they could build a wall shelf instead. I personally prefer a desk shelf so I could move my desk along with my equipment.  Tek oscilloscope can be quite heavy so place them on the desk rather than the shelf. Place the power supply closest you and DUT, so you don't run long supply wires and introduce extra resistance in the circuitry.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 11:16:39 AM by nukie »
 

Offline torch

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #78 on: May 17, 2011, 12:45:33 AM »
You will need some additional parts (eg. case, jacks/binding posts, current measurement DPMs / power indicators) to make it into something approaching a bench supply.

Yup. Bought a box when I got it -- the bloody project box was 3x the price of the project! -- and have been tinkering with bits and pieces I had lying around:
.
You can see where I added another heat sink for the LM317 in an empty area of the board on the upper left. I need to buy a green binding post for the mains ground and I've ordered a pair of mini digital readouts off eBay for the variable output. The pot is temporary, I'll get a 5K 10-turn like Dave recommends (there's another shockingly expensive item!). All I had handy was a used 56K linear, so I'll have to change the resistor too. You can see where I plan to cut out for the readouts -- I decided to wait until I had them to confirm the dimensions. So the mains ground, negative and variable + posts are on the left, then fixed +12, +5 and +3.3 outputs on the right.

I don't think this can ever compare to a good quality bench supply. But I think it will compare favourably to the first one Dave shows in the video.

If you are interested, here's the underside where I goobered in the LM317. I did not add caps -- I tried with and without on the breadboard and it didn't make any difference. The green wire from the ADJ is run to a conveniently unused pin on the header for the pot. You can see one of the chassis mount ground points in the picture -- I will run a wire around and pick them all up, taking them back to the mains ground because the box is plastic. The two blobs of solder all by themselves are just to hold the heat sink steady.
 

Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #79 on: June 11, 2011, 11:04:27 PM »
Its too bad some good posts are made on the blog page, because they aren't as easy to search.

Its amazing that so many end up having the same tools or type of tool as the comments suggest.  I have pretty much 80% of nearly identical stuff as Dave, excluding new acquisitions like the Rigol or the Atten hot air station.

http://www.eevblog.com/2011/04/30/eevblog-168-how-to-set-up-an-electronics-lab/#comments

One thing I'll add is consider salvaging electronics from your local trash.  Extracting parts with a hot air station is very convenient.  Many of are full of US, Taiwan or Japan ICs or transistors of highest quality.  Many ICs are often still in the catalog, and obsolete ones the spec sheets are often locatable on pdf.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline ciccio

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2011, 10:02:52 PM »
I'm new to the forum, but reading the previous posts I did not find any reference to three really useful tools.

The first one: a Variac (variable auto transformer): it is mandatory when working on audio power amplifiers or power supplies: you can slowly ramp-up  line voltage and see what happens, without fear of blowing big electrolytics or expensive power transistors, you can see at what voltage your  regulator circuit begins to hum, etc.
Mine is a museum piece: I assembled it in a "suitable" case about  30 years ago, and never finished the job, so the power switch is the mounted the wrong way: on down.
Inside there is an hefty 2.5 amps ISKRA variac, made in the former Yugoslavia. Don't remember how the AC voltmeter is made, maybe with some sample converter.
You can buy cheap Chinese variacs, or you can find a real GeneralRadio on ebay.
 
The second one is a safety tool: it is a switched power socket, with a two-pole switch and a neon pilot lamp.
When I work on mains powered equipment, I tape the power switch of the equipment in the ON position, and rely solely on the outlet switch for on/off: this way I can always see the ON  lamp, even when the equipment indicator in on the side opposite to me.
The box is plugged to a socket that has a combined 10A max - 30 mA  differential resettable protection, separated from the one that supplies the bench tools and the measuring instruments.

The third one is an home-brew version of the "third hand": I simply glue a wooden "clothes clip" (I think it's name is different, but I cannot find it, and the photo is self-explaining) to a piece of scrap sheet metal or to anything that has sufficient weight, and that's all: I have an insulated clip that is heat-resistant, does not damage the surface of the "thing" it's holding, and does not cool the piece I'm soldering,  and it's cheap
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 10:13:31 PM by ciccio »
Ciccio

Strenua Nos Exercet Inertia
 
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Offline david77

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2011, 11:06:09 PM »
A variac is a nice piece of equipment, though I prefer the isolating type to the autotransformer variety.

Personally I consider it dangerous to just switch the mains off when working on the insides of a device. It's too easy to flick the switch accidentally and "bzzzzt". I consider it much safer to conciously pull the plug and put it somewhere out of the way, often I sit on it or put it in a pocket.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 11:12:03 PM by david77 »
 

Offline ciccio

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2011, 04:36:00 AM »


Personally I consider it dangerous to just switch the mains off when working on the insides of a device. It's too easy to flick the switch accidentally and "bzzzzt". I consider it much safer to conciously pull the plug and put it somewhere out of the way, often I sit on it or put it in a pocket.



True, but most of the times impractical...This is the reason for having the "switch in the box" sitting on one side of the bench, far from the equipment under observation. The bipolar switch guarantees that both conductors are cut-off, independently of the wiring of the equipment, the wiring of the plug and the insertion of the plug in the socket (sorry but Italian and German plugs can be plugged in both ways)
Ciccio

Strenua Nos Exercet Inertia
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #83 on: July 22, 2011, 02:36:38 PM »


Personally I consider it dangerous to just switch the mains off when working on the insides of a device. It's too easy to flick the switch accidentally and "bzzzzt". I consider it much safer to conciously pull the plug and put it somewhere out of the way, often I sit on it or put it in a pocket.



True, but most of the times impractical...This is the reason for having the "switch in the box" sitting on one side of the bench, far from the equipment under observation. The bipolar switch guarantees that both conductors are cut-off, independently of the wiring of the equipment, the wiring of the plug and the insertion of the plug in the socket (sorry but Italian and German plugs can be plugged in both ways)

Even with the Australian type of plug,you can occasionally run into a socket which is wired backwards.The correct wiring is a Rule now,but it used to be just a recommendation.
It may be the same with UK wiring,I'm not sure.

From what I read on the Internet,240 volt sockets are becoming a lot more common in the U.S.A. & Canada than they once were.
With a North American 240 volt plug,both sides are "hot"at 120v w.r.t earth,& 240v between them,so a double pole switch would be  essential.

VK6ZGO
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 02:41:26 PM by vk6zgo »
 

Offline torch

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #84 on: July 22, 2011, 08:48:20 PM »
From what I read on the Internet,240 volt sockets are becoming a lot more common in the U.S.A. & Canada than they once were.
With a North American 240 volt plug,both sides are "hot"at 120v w.r.t earth,& 240v between them,so a double pole switch would be  essential.

240v outlets in the home are pretty rare and specialized over here. Typically the stove and dryer outlets are 240v, but nothing else (hot water heaters, baseboard heaters, well pumps, central air, etc. are usually 240v, but hard-wired). Split duplex receptacles are common, but must be wired such that both halves are fed from the same leg. Exceptions do occur where hobbists install specialized equipment. I have a 240v outlet for my lathe and another for my welder in the garage, but those have unique layouts that cannot be mistaken for (or connected to!) anything else.

What can be a problem is when neighbouring receptacles are wired such that they are fed from opposing legs. If equipment is plugged into each and then interconnected (eg: home theater) some strange things can result. That is certainly something to watch out for when setting up an electronics lab!
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #85 on: July 22, 2011, 10:33:45 PM »
Guess I've been reading too much on QRZ.com!  :D

"Hams" often run 240v outlets in the USA to drive their 1.5kW PEP linear amplifiers,so I incorrectly assumed that they were becoming more generally used.

In Australia we are only allowed to use 400watts PEP! :'(

VK6ZGO
 

Offline torch

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2011, 04:00:16 AM »
"Hams" often run 240v outlets in the USA to drive their 1.5kW PEP linear amplifiers,

I would file that under the "hobbyist installing specialized equipment" category.  ;)
 

Online IanB

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2011, 08:08:22 AM »
Guess I've been reading too much on QRZ.com!  :D

"Hams" often run 240v outlets in the USA to drive their 1.5kW PEP linear amplifiers,so I incorrectly assumed that they were becoming more generally used.
It's relatively easy, in principle, to run a 240 V circuit off its own breaker from the distribution panel, especially if the panel is close to somewhere like the garage or basement where you want the outlet and the panel has spare slots. Unfortunately it is not always easy to find a place to hide the wiring since the original wiring was put in the wall cavities when the house was built and ripping out drywall to install or pull new wiring is no picnic.

I have an unused 240 V dryer outlet in my garage, but it is not in a location where I can conveniently use it for anything else without a long additional cable run.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2011, 05:31:15 PM »
In Oz,of,course,the normal power sockets are 240 volt 10A,so we are well set for using higher power stuff.
We still have a problem installing new sockets (called GPOs here),particularly in Western Australia,where most of the older houses have double brick outer walls,& single brick internal walls,
Cabling is only easily carried out in the cavity of the outer walls.
To run cables on the internal ones means you have to cut slots in the wall & re-plaster,
or live with exposed conduit.
We aren't allowed to do our own,anyway,so I let the Licenced Electrician have the headaches!  :D

VK6ZGO
 

Offline torch

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2011, 05:58:16 PM »
Here (Ontario, Canada) a homeowner is allowed to do their own electrical in their own home. Theoretically they are supposed to pull a permit and have it inspected by the Electrical Safety Authority, but that very seldom happens unless they are building something new and obvious. Every hardware store carries a wide selection of wire, boxes, etc. etc. etc. Larger ones even carry a selection of panels and ground rods.
 

Offline david77

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2011, 07:29:32 PM »
Same in Germany, houses are traditionally built from brick, that means putting in new wiring is not something you can do easily. Usually only when a major remodeling is planned anyway. There's no law that that forbids you to do electrical installations yourself. The DIY stores carry all you need. Problem is many DIYers do really stupid and dangerous stuff because they think they know what they're doing. I have seen stuff that made my hair stand on end.

 

Online Neganur

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #91 on: July 23, 2011, 11:27:13 PM »
There's no law that that forbids you to do electrical installations yourself.

Don't forget to mention that it has to be approved by a certified electrical engineering master technician (Elektromeister). Saying there's no law that prohibits DIY installation is a bit misleading.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 11:32:21 PM by Neganur »
 

Offline david77

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #92 on: July 24, 2011, 04:48:30 PM »
Sorry, getting a bit OT but anyway:
Ok, in theory this is true. But what electrician in their right mind is going to sign off some dodgy DIY wiring job? They have to take full responsibility for the job and if something happens they walk to the gallows. So what happens in real life?
Mr & Mrs Doityourself happily continue plastering over speakerwire used for mains and replacing 10A fuses with 25A ones because "they keep blowing all the time" not aware of the consequences, listening to "advice" some underpaid uninformed flunky in a DIY store has given them.
I see that every day and wonder why not more people die.
 

Offline torch

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2011, 12:01:31 AM »
I see that every day and wonder why not more people die.

As a professional firefighter, I see it every day (almost) too. (Sometimes I'm even the reason more people don't die)

I'm especially impressed when they attach the speaker wire to aluminium wiring with marrettes, omit the j-box and bury it in cellulose insulation.  ::)
 

Offline david77

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #94 on: July 25, 2011, 12:25:34 AM »
Thank god aluminium wiring is quite rare here, at least in western Germany. Apparently it was widely used in residential wiring jobs in the ex-GDR, though. One can of worms we were spared.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #95 on: July 26, 2011, 02:28:45 PM »
Electrical wiring stuff is widely available in Australia ,too,even though we aren't supposed to do it.

Technicians & EEs who "know what not to do" usually obey the rules & get a Licenced Electrician to do the job,but people
who know nothing leap in & produce some horrific "wiring".

Back in the 1960s,both cables & electrical fittings in Australia made a"quantum leap",with standardisation on
PVC insulation,& plugs made from heavy duty PVC with specified construction methods.
The time since then has been more of incremental improvement rather than great leaps.

The scary thing is,when you are confronted with some of these "DIY" electrical jobs, in many cases they are using cabling that dates to before the standardisation referred to above.
Obviously someone has salvaged 50 year old cable & connectors! :o

At least the DIYs done with modern standard equipment ,if done correctly,may be safe,but old.perished wiring is unlikely to ever be anything but a deathtrap!

VK6ZGO
 

Offline stryker

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2017, 01:40:08 PM »
Over xmas I finally completed a bench power supply inspired by this video from way back when. 

In hindsight the case I chose was probably a bit on the cramped side, but eventually worked it all out with a grinder and some klingons.  Now I see I should probably swap the black and green terminals on the front (sometime in the next 3 years will do based on progress up to this point).  This is now my 2nd bench supply, and I put one together for a mate.  It works a treat!

Thanks again for these vids Dave.
Geoff
 
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #97 on: January 15, 2017, 11:39:09 AM »
Holy thread resurrection batman
 
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Offline stryker

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Re: EEVblog #168 - How To Set Up An Electronics Lab
« Reply #98 on: January 15, 2017, 03:26:50 PM »
Yes the date on my PCB was from early 2015.  It was too much of a triumph not to post about but
 


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