EEVblog #280 - Talking Electronics

[EEVblog]

What confused me I think was when he talked of ETI/EA doing a project electronics magazine. The only one I could think of was ETI's hobby electronics, and I'm pretty sure that was around 1980 or 81 82, but of course a few of the mags were releasing 'books of circuits' around that time so I could be completely wrong.

Both EA and ETI did one-off and Top Projects Vol 1-x, Test Gear Vol 1-x or whatever.
I showed some of these in my magazine memories video.
They were just compilations of existing published projects.
I think I even got a cheque for getting republished in EA's Test Gear Vol III

Dave.

[EEVblog]

Don't forget to include some ad's, I wanna see pricing and features from way back.

I could do a whole series just on the ads and the progress of test gear etc over time.
In fact I could split the videos into such segments. Have one video on ads spanning  40 years, one video on projects over 40 years, one on feature articles etc ?

Dave.

[EEVblog]

Your spot on Dave...I bought the same Programmer..The guys name was Jim Robertson  from down Geelong way....

Yep, that's him.
I recall it wasn't an ad, but some form of little editorial for the programmer.
IIRC it was the worlds first PICstart compatible programmer, so it worked with MPLAB. All other programmer of the day to use their own (buggy) custom program.
I remember getting the board and software from Jim, it was one of the early ones, and the disk was infected with a virus!
I still have the board, and the follow up Warp 13.

Dave.

[EEVblog]

I would of trusted his memory too.. but its a while ago now so I'll cut him some slack. I ran across this guys website who seems to have a couple of date stamps on his magazine (Gordon and Gotch 1982?)
http://retro-riders.com/tech/magz/te/magz/Issue08/big2.jpg

Yeah, seems to be Nov 1982 for Issue 8.

Dave.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I'm going to start a series on going through the old EA mags in chronological order, should be really fun. Just not sure how to space it, one mag every 2 or 5 years?
I'm talking 40 years worth here...

Dave.

I am really looking forward to this.
/...

So am I. Can't wait. As for picking out what to include, I'd suggest doing the occasional blog with a random issue featured. Be interesting how you derive the randomness of your selection.   

Could you explain if or how many issues are available online as an archive. Whilst I realise recent editions of current mags still attract a fee for the hard copy, surely by now the defunct ones could be uploaded for posterity.

[EEVblog]

So am I. Can't wait. As for picking out what to include, I'd suggest doing the occasional blog with a random issue featured. Be interesting how you derive the randomness of your selection.   

I think the most interesting part would be seeing how things change over time, so a regular series is in order I think.

Could you explain if or how many issues are available online as an archive. Whilst I realise recent editions of current mags still attract a fee for the hard copy, surely by now the defunct ones could be uploaded for posterity.

None are available online.
Silicon Chip bought all the rights to Electronics Australia, and hence ETI as well. And they still sell (photocopied) back issues.
Leo has said he'll get them all scanned onto DVD's for sales eventually, but it's been a long time now, and last I spoke to him about it about a year ago, he didn't seem too enthusiastic about it any more.

Dave.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Bummer.

[amspire]

I think  EA and probably the other Australian electronics magazines are on Fiche at libraries like Sydney University's Fisher library, but not on line, so you would have to go there in person.

[gregariz]

I don't know what the status of AEM was but I suspect that nobody would really care if we uploaded it. I'm sure 'legally' someone still owns it. Unfortunately my copies are in a lockup somewhere in Aus.

http://retro-riders.com/tech/magz/aem/magz/1985/Jul/big.jpg

[vk3yedotcom]

Great series - watched them all at least twice!

I was a fair bit surprised to find that he's now a big property developer which takes up all his daytime hours, I pictured him still slumped over the soldering iron and shipping kits, but that was not to be. 

In a way I'm not suprised.  Colin's magazines often had articles about magic tricks, not being ripped off, business and making money.  I enjoyed these as much as the electronics.

You could certainly discern his business philosophy.  Starting small, concentrating on the product and effective marketing.  Basically keeping costs and paperwork low so that you can offer good value yet still make a profit.  Eg working from home rather than opening a shop. Or not employing people unless they can generate much more in profit than their wage. And not borrowing money. 

Overseas opportunities were mentioned - saying that you can make 10 times the money by taking your ideas overseas (not sure if this was written before or after the American venture).   And real estate as a sound investment was definitely mentioned at least once.

All these points are in his books, indicating several skills you don't always see in the one person (ie the technical electronic design, educational/teaching and business/entrepeneurial).

What confused me I think was when he talked of ETI/EA doing a project electronics magazine. The only one I could think of was ETI's hobby electronics, and I'm pretty sure that was around 1980 or 81 82, but of course a few of the mags were releasing 'books of circuits' around that time so I could be completely wrong.

There was a one-off Project Electronics book, published by the Electronics Today crowd.  It had a plain red cover.  Stapled magazine style with maybe 80 pages. Hugely popular and got into a lot of libraries. Marty's listings say it came out in 1977 (see http://retro-riders.com/tech/magz/ ).
 
This meant it preceded the Dick Smith Fun Way series (c1980).  Project Electronics isn't in the DSE 1982/3 catalogue but I'm pretty earlier older catalogues had it.  Dick Smith's biography (by Ike Bain) mentions that he was a student and implementer of other people's ideas (eg supermarket style shopping for electronics after touring UK/US).   

Maybe Project Electronics was an inspiration for the Fun Way series, with the difference being that Funway 1 started right at the bottom - ie no soldering - and Funway 2 and (later) 3 would keep the interest (and customers) up.   The cunning thing about the Funway series (from a business POV) was that whereas a Tandy Science Fair kit was complete - no more parts needed - the Funway series continually needed more parts.  Either to build the basic project (FW1) or for enhancements (FW2).

Back on topic, DSE didn't sell TE's Electronics Notebook in 1982/3 but did in 86/87.  Their TE range expanded greatly during the '90s and was stocked until at least the early 2000s.

Peter

[vk3yedotcom]

I don't know what the status of AEM was but I suspect that nobody would really care if we uploaded it. I'm sure 'legally' someone still owns it. Unfortunately my copies are in a lockup somewhere in Aus.

http://retro-riders.com/tech/magz/aem/magz/1985/Jul/big.jpg

Might be worth dropping Roger Harrison a line.  He's active in ham radio VHF circles and on the VK Logger forum.

[vk6zgo]

One of the few advantages of being as old as dirt,is the knowledge that the world didn't spring into being full grown on January 1st 1980!

When I started my first job, at Atkins (WA) back in 1959,there were a number of companies who provided kits for RTV &H/EA projects.such as Q-Plus.RCS,& some lesser lights,

Back then,you could buy a complete kit to build  a (black & white) TV set from Q-Plus,(& strangely,Philips).
RCS stuff was usually a bit less ambitious,being either short form kits,or small audio amps,etc.

You could also get short form kits for the RTV&H Playmaster amplifiers,but you had to buy the valves,transformers,etc separately.
 
University Graham produced a kit to build a Valve Tester--we had one of those in stock!
Atkins also had a few Heathkits!

The advantage of being a WA company is that you could buy kits & stuff from many different suppliers,without being pushed one way or the other by "The Wise Men from the East".

At that time,there were 3 main Electronics suppliers in Perth,Atkins,A.J.Wyle, & Carlyles,who all sold the RCS & Q-Plus kits.

By 1965,when I left Atkins,the kit situation was pretty much dying,as people could buy cheaper than build,especially TV sets,so the market was disappearing.

Over the next few years, things changed fairly rapidly, with A.J.Wyle disappearing,Atkins & Carlyle merging,General Accessories appearing for a few years,with an initially successful Self Service business plan,then finally failing.

In the early 1970s the Electronics Supply situation was pretty barren,then Altronics opened,(initially as a Dick Smith agent),then in its own right.
Of course, DSE were going "gangbusters" in the Eastern States,but we didn't get one of his stores till later.

Kits were something you occasionally saw referred to in ads in EA.

In the late 1970s the CB Boom hit!-----Everybody had to sell CBs,Chemists,K Mart,Service Stations,you name it!!
Kits! What the hell are kits!!

Which pretty much bring us to the situation faced by Colin & others in the early '80s.

By the time Talking Electronics came out,I had been working in Electronics for nearly 20 years,& to be honest,it didn't do anything for me.

A lot of my younger workmates still bought the mag though,& obviously learned a lot from it.

[vk3yedotcom]

In the early 1970s the Electronics Supply situation was pretty barren,then Altronics opened,(initially as a Dick Smith agent),then in its own right.

A question - where did Willis Trading (445 Murray St) fit into the picture?   

Early 1970s EA ads (before my time) had them stocking a mixture of semiconductors, built-up amplifiers and kits (capacitor discharge ignition and simple radios). 

Did they stock much more than that?   

I remember their small Vic Park store - going in there only a few months before they closed down/retired.

 

[vk6zgo]

In the early 1970s the Electronics Supply situation was pretty barren,then Altronics opened,(initially as a Dick Smith agent),then in its own right.

A question - where did Willis Trading (445 Murray St) fit into the picture?   

Early 1970s EA ads (before my time) had them stocking a mixture of semiconductors, built-up amplifiers and kits (capacitor discharge ignition and simple radios). 

Did they stock much more than that?

 

I remember their small Vic Park store - going in there only a few months before they closed down/retired.

 

Hi Peter,yeah,I forgot Willis.

They originally stocked similar stuff to Atkins,but on a smaller scale--similar to A.J.Wyle.
Towards the end,they had a lot of the stuff you referred to,& some secondhand Ham stuff.

I have a funny idea that when the old bloke retired,someone else took over & moved it up to the top end of Hay St,next door to the "Massage Parlor".(or that may have been Genacs---senility rules!!)

In any case,I remember the bloke there telling us that he got told off by the Madam,because the Geeks were all parking in her parking lot!!

By the way,do you remember when General Accessories used to sell "cleanskin" transistors out of a big lolly jar?
We used to call them BC10?s at work.
Bob Bacon at ABW2 made lots of stuff with them,he even cut the top off one to use as an opto-transistor.

[vk3yedotcom]

By the way,do you remember when General Accessories used to sell "cleanskin" transistors out of a big lolly jar?

Unfortunately that was way before my time. 

For me the world (at least for electronics) indeed started c1980, though often with 1950s - 70s salvaged parts due to distance from shops. 

[vk6zgo]

By the way,do you remember when General Accessories used to sell "cleanskin" transistors out of a big lolly jar?

Unfortunately that was way before my time. 

For me the world (at least for electronics) indeed started c1980, though often with 1950s - 70s salvaged parts due to distance from shops.

Yeah,I still remember some of the valve CW transmitters you submitted to AR when you were living down south.
You were a bit of a prodigy!
The mid '70s to early '80s were a pretty inactive period for me in Hobby Electronics,( although I became a Ham in that period),& I didn't keep up with what was going on with the suppliers to the same extent,so I couldn't quite remember where Genacs fitted in the chronology.
On reflection,they would have been mid '60s to mid '70s,so that must have been Willis that moved up to the top of Hay St.
They only lasted a few months up there---maybe the Madam had them run out of town!

[JTR]

Also got into pic micro,s from an ad on one of his Mag,s...

So did I, with Newfound Electronics PP1 programmer.
I quizzed Colin on this, but he did not recall every advertising a PIC programmer.

Hoping to see an interview soon with Don Mc Kenzie ;-)... Built some of his stuff as well...Z80 printer buffer..

That would be interesting. I know Don (never met personally though), he watches the blog, and I think was the first ever person to comment on it back when it was on the aus.electronics group.

Dave.

Your spot on Dave...I bought the same Programmer..The guys name was Jim Robertson  from down Geelong way....

Speaking of Mags..... When i was  an apprentice i use to buy  Everyday Electronics  and Practical Electronics every month....

Frank

Frank Mate! I was just thinking about you and wondering if you were still active in the electronics scene. You brought the very first PP1 and started of my business. I remember that phone conversation we had.

You, [insert Scottish accent here]  when will you have this ready to sell.

Me, trying not to commit myself, "Oh maybe in three or four months. "

You "How much will this cost."

Me, I gave you some price that was about a quarter of what the parallax programmer was (they had the whole market to themselves, except for the shite picstart-16B and later 16C).

You "OK, I send you a cheque, you will get it on Monday."

Me thinking to myself,  Oh shit a customer, a real customer, my God I'm going to actually sell something. Oh my God I have to actually FINISH something instead of forever working on it like it was my Sistine Chapel painting.  I was beside myself - success knocking at my door.

The three or four months of work was done in a few days and I posted of my first PIC programmer to you the next week. OH, I cashed that cheque too, Thanks!. From there I when on to make a shit load of money particularly with the later WARP-13 until illness, the advent of the pickit 2 and the GST over complicating things sort of all combined to force me into "retirement."

Yes there was some link between talking electronics and the PP1 but I think it may have been a "favour" the Colin did for me. I cannot clearly remember exactly how it happened but I think there was a free ad on something that was inserted into something Colin published. After all that is how you (and Dave) found me.

BTW. The first "Microchip" PIC was the 16C54 and 16C55 and not the 16C84. There were the masked rommed GI versions before this including the 40-pin PIC1640.

I know that Colin wanted to produce and market the PP1 but by then I knew of all the problems surrounding TE. In any case I am glad I got something for all that work I did on the TEC-1. JMON and the peripherals. I was never "on staff" there and got nothing for all that work. There was some rather unfortunate events that killed any hope for issue 16 of TE and my plans to hopefully follow up with some work that paid its way. Anyway that part of the TE story is perhaps best left behind.  Something about these kit FM bugs, the "law" (ha, ha) and an innocent bystander who the cops wrongly identified as the "brains" of the operation because the more technical stuff of TE was on my Dick Smith, 8MHz, NEC? V20 (Wow! 20% faster than the stock intel 8088) PC with, what, maybe a  512K harddrive. They were looking for something in particular to "steal" under the guise of enforcing the telecommunications act. It is there in the last video.  That is what really killed any chance of another issue of the magazine and a new version of the TEC-1. (Anyone got a 5 1/2' floppy drive. Might be able to resurrect it...) Oh, and there was some issues with "Peter Crowcroft" and how he ripped everything from TE. Boxes of stuff he carted out the door and copied in Hong Kong and started selling these cheap knock-offs through Jaycar and Altronics.

Colin was and still is a brilliant thinker and like others I got my start through TE. Back in that day there was no internet and if you wanted technical data, well for me it meant a trip up to Melbourne and a visit to the technical book shop with a pad and a pen. I could not afford $30-$80 dollars for a book when chances are there were only a few pages of relevant information. TE changed that and the Australian electronics scene has a lot to thank Colin (and Jock Ellis) for. They chiefly made electronics affordable and accessible to many young people.  And here some of us are.

It is good to see that Colin has kicked on and his web site is a wealth of information. The demise of the magazine and the reasons behind it are sad but never the less it did serve its purpose and continues to do so in it new internet form.

Good to see that you too Dave have kicked on. I remember the tronnort days and speaking to you on the phone. I also remember that you had the world's most campest message on your answering machine. I still cringe to this day.

BTW, Dave, my friends at dangerous prototypes have reworked the bus pirate LCD board to include a dual header just for you.