Author Topic: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement  (Read 29144 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« on: August 24, 2012, 02:48:56 pm »


Dave.
 

Offline poptones

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2012, 03:18:20 pm »
Tear it down! I want to see 20MB of 25ps memory...
 

Offline amspire

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2012, 05:13:35 pm »
Dave,

I had assumed that that scope was 40GS/s sampling scope, but it is a 40GS/s real time scope on all 4 channels?
 
 

Online AndyC_772

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2012, 05:17:49 pm »
Can't believe you chickened out of soldering the differential probe directly to the USB connector ;)

I was fortunate enough to get to play with a virtually identical scope earlier this week, though 'just' the 2.5 GHz version - and I agree, as a general purpose instrument it's nowhere near as useful as an 'ordinary' bench scope. Its inputs are fixed at 50 Ohm, so you can't even plug in a 10:1 passive probe to check if a clock is running. No variable display persistence either; it's infinite or nothing.

As a tool for a specific job I have to admire its capabilities, but I actually preferred using my 8 year old Tek TDS3034B. The first time a scope ever complained about needing to update its anti-virus software was a sad day indeed, IMHO.
 

Online BravoV

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2012, 05:42:37 pm »
The first time a scope ever complained about needing to update its anti-virus software was a sad day indeed, IMHO.

Not a sad thing at all if you're an Iranian scientist or engineer working at the nuclear lab facility somewhere inside Iran ...  ;D  j/k

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2012, 05:44:37 pm »
As a tool for a specific job I have to admire its capabilities, but I actually preferred using my 8 year old Tek TDS3034B.

For everyday use I'd rather use an old TDS210!

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2012, 05:46:14 pm »
BTW, the scope is now gone.
For those in Sydney who want to play with it, Agilent have a measurement seminar this Monday.
Or just ask'em, they have a couple of loaners!

Dave.
 

Offline T4P

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2012, 09:45:45 pm »
Looks like the 90000 was designed for WinXP but now it's Win7  ;D
 

Online AndyC_772

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2012, 09:49:03 pm »
The one I used was running XP. I'm sure Agilent's engineers really enjoyed porting the hardware drivers and getting the scope running properly under a new version of Windows... time very well spent pushing the boundaries of technology I'm sure you'd agree  :-\  :-[  ::)  :'(
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2012, 10:11:04 pm »
Looks like the 90000 was designed for WinXP but now it's Win7  ;D

A sticker on the back says it runs XP, but is using a Win 7 license sticker.

Dave.
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2012, 10:26:21 pm »
A virus messing up your measurements would be fun!  :-X :-X :-X

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline ivan747

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2012, 10:38:03 pm »
A virus messing up your measurements would be fun!  :-X :-X :-X

Alexander.

Kinda like the old school viruses that just pissed you off and messed up with your DOS prompt  ::)
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Offline T4P

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2012, 10:58:41 pm »
Dave,

I had assumed that that scope was 40GS/s sampling scope, but it is a 40GS/s real time scope on all 4 channels?

Checking the datasheet reveals that it does 40GS across all 4 channels
80GS on the X models ( half a million ... ) for 2 channels and 40GS all 4 channels for the X models

BEASTS. Well considering the agilent DSOX3054A already costs about 12k for 500MHz ( of course there's the 1GHz upgrade Dave is getting )
It's about fair it costs 140k ... well 10x more sample rate 10x more speed and about 250x more memory (if you get the 1GB upgrade which i guess costs a bomb)
or just 10x more memory (assuming both have no upgrades)
And then there's the PCI-E x4 upgrade for the memory ...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 11:02:36 pm by T4P »
 

Online AndyC_772

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2012, 11:53:38 pm »
A virus messing up your measurements would be fun!  :-X :-X :-X
Isn't that pretty much what Stuxnet did?
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2012, 12:04:53 am »
Isn't that pretty much what Stuxnet did?

Yep. StuxNet was inserted to normal Desktop computer though. I don't believe you can run binary files from the usb port of the Agilent.

But with Windows you never know. You might be able to download a virus through the probe.  :P :P :P

Alexander.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 12:52:09 am by firewalker »
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Offline vl400

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2012, 12:42:04 am »
We run anti virus software on all our agilent spec ans and VNAs at work that run windows, nothing like AVG running a scheduled scan in the middle of trying take a measurement  ::) They all run a full windows environment though, can minimize the measurement software back to a normal desktop. Perfectly capable of being infected or BSOD. Not sure if these high end scopes are the same like that?
 

Online AndyC_772

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2012, 12:52:50 am »
If it's based on a PC running Windows, I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be as vulnerable as any. Probably more so, since it's unlikely to be kept up to date with all the latest patches.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2012, 01:21:27 am »
If it's based on a PC running Windows, I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be as vulnerable as any. Probably more so, since it's unlikely to be kept up to date with all the latest patches.
..although there is much less reason to connect it to a network than a PC. And it probably won't be running a web browser.
And if it's been done properly it will be running a Windows Embedded flavour with all the system and application on a read-only hard disk partition. If.....
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Offline ee851

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2012, 01:47:15 am »
Very cool machine!   I hope I get a chance to play with one too.
Looks as if it has about 359 different ways to measure & display clock jittter, hahaha....

I wonder how much Agilent pays Apple Computer in royalties.    Surely Apple Computer patented the touchscreen technology that makes this machine so easy to operate ?

Does this machine connect to ethernet too ? to download software upgrades & to upload measured data to the www ?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 02:05:24 am by ee851 »
 

Online AndyC_772

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2012, 01:59:51 am »
And if it's been done properly it will be running a Windows Embedded flavour with all the system and application on a read-only hard disk partition. If.....
Nope, just XP. The one we rented actually popped up with the 'found new hardware' wizard on power-up, which was slightly unnerving!
 

Offline tnt

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2012, 02:14:18 am »
I think the one that had 'overshoot' might actually be the TX of the HDD box, just using pre-emphasis to make sure the signal looks nice at the RX end.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2012, 02:36:54 am »
Scary are bank ATM's some running WinXP, and a heck of a lot running Win2k, mostly the older ones. The oldest are running a flavour of Unix, but those are not common these days.  I have often seen a crashed bank ATM showing a BSOD, or worse a dragged off to the side message ( with the now visible mouse cursor) where it wants to restart.

The oldest ATM I saw had a massive burn on the screen, which said " This machine temporarily out of order/hierdie mashien tydelik buite werking" which somebody had placed a sheet next to the machine which said " temporarily working". There was a first generation Post Office ATM that would deliver notes one at a time, you remove it, and it whirred for 30 seconds before presenting the next note. Took it a minute to print the receipt as well, using a built in hammer printer, then it would eventually give the card back. 15 minutes per transaction on average.
 

Offline StubbornGreek

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2012, 07:39:11 am »
EDIT: Almost forgot to comment...the hell with the manual, I really enjoyed this upload. Thanks Dave.

We run anti virus software on all our agilent spec ans and VNAs at work that run windows, nothing like AVG running a scheduled scan in the middle of trying take a measurement  ::) They all run a full windows environment though, can minimize the measurement software back to a normal desktop. Perfectly capable of being infected or BSOD. Not sure if these high end scopes are the same like that?

Consider using Microsoft Security Essentials - I've tried most others (including nod32, AVG, Avast, Comodo - I could list them all but there are dozens) and its the least intrusive package out there, MS uses the same definition database as Norton, McAfee, etc, and not to mention that MS does have an intrinsic understanding of their operating system. I haven't looked back - I highly recommend.
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Offline Zad

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2012, 09:16:34 am »
Why would Apple own the touch screen technology? Just like MP3 players and GUIs, touch screens were going decades before Apple decided to use them.


Offline StubbornGreek

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Re: EEVblog #340 - USB 3.0 Eye Diagram Measurement
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2012, 09:30:01 am »
Why would Apple own the touch screen technology? Just like MP3 players and GUIs, touch screens were going decades before Apple decided to use them.

They claim capacitive touch (multi-finger touch) is their 'patented' technology.
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