Author Topic: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown  (Read 20208 times)

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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2012, 02:22:41 PM »
One charger has Australian pins, so I assume its targeted at Australia.
It fails because Australian market plugs need to have a plastic ring about 50mm diameter around the pins
Its to stop fingers going behind the plug and touching the pins when its plugged in.

It's more likely targeted for the China market. Chinese plugs/sockets have the same layout as the Australian's.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2012, 03:26:37 PM »
I see a theme of impatience sometimes, "Dave do this! this!"

That's my world!  ::)
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/making_things

I don't mind people suggesting things for future videos, e.g. "I'd love to see some load measurements of this in another video"
But it can be quite disheartening when you continually get comments the likes of "I'm disappointed in this video, I expected this and that, why didn't you do this" etc, and they thumb it down just because you didn't do something they wanted.
That's the kind of stuff that leads to a "PhotonicInduction"  :o

Dave.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2012, 03:28:27 PM »
That's the kind of stuff that leads to a "PhotonicInduction"  :o

You're many things, Dave, but you're not a drama queen on his level. ;)
 

Offline IanB

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2012, 03:53:18 PM »
Like the apple one, still a crap charger by any standards just look at the SAMXON caps! Bound to fail!
That thing just terrifies me, well, it costs 30$

Neither of the chargers in the video was an Apple charger. Both were fakes and neither cost anything near $30.

You can see if you follow the link in the description that the genuine iPhone charger has a different and very sophisticated design with many clever features.
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Online BravoV

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2012, 07:21:04 PM »
But it can be quite disheartening when you continually get comments the likes of "I'm disappointed in this video, I expected this and that, why didn't you do this" etc, and they thumb it down just because you didn't do something they wanted.
That's the kind of stuff that leads to a "PhotonicInduction"  :o

Growing thicker skin is part of basic requirements in this kind of biz, other wise you've taken the wrong decision in your career. The bigger audiences you have, the thicker you need to grow it.

Also sometimes swallowing a bit of own pride and the bitterness of criticisms (especially the constructive ones), is like having a smack at the head for a wake up call from complacency.

Offline T4P

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2012, 07:28:18 PM »
Like the apple one, still a crap charger by any standards just look at the SAMXON caps! Bound to fail!
That thing just terrifies me, well, it costs 30$

Neither of the chargers in the video was an Apple charger. Both were fakes and neither cost anything near $30.

You can see if you follow the link in the description that the genuine iPhone charger has a different and very sophisticated design with many clever features.
I was looking at the teardown of the real one. That one has a badcap right where it matters the most, output!
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Offline G7PSK

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2012, 08:18:39 PM »
Here is a link to a very detailed tear down that I found on the web.
This is genuine Apple power supply that is dissected.


http://www.arcfn.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html
 

Offline jeroen74

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2012, 10:26:42 PM »
That's the same page as in the blog post ;)
 

Offline AcHmed99

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2012, 10:55:00 PM »
Unfortunately as long as there is demand for low cost consumer goods their will always be someone to fill it. Between lead in paint on children’s toy’s, poisoned pet food unsafe electronics….

People need to educate themselves if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
 

Offline Uncle Vernon

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2012, 10:08:41 AM »
From that you can say there is certainly coming a lot of dangerous crap from China, and it is not harmless.

From that?

So you have surmised that it only cheap & nasty Chinese product that causes fire from that? I call flawed assumption!

Where is your evidence that all these faulty plug-packs etc, are of Chinese origin? How do you support your inference that Chinese manufacture equals cheap & nasty. You prime source of statistics being some "Local Newspaper", authoritative stuff that! Why not switch on some tabloid television too, they run this kind of crap at least monthly. Who needs standards and test labs when we have cadet journalists right?

You need to think back to this quote from Monty Python which demonstrates the absence of wisdom in your wild assumptions.
"Fish live in the sea!" "Carp are fish!" "Therefore all fish are carp!"

Sure there is a lot of rubbish coming out of China, as well as some quality product. This is a fact which prevails throughout most of Asia. Once again you are putting Xenophobia before fact or reason!

"Made in China" does not instantly signify quality nor does it automatically equal death-trap. Lets face it if you were to solely rely on product from your own land, the technical pinnacle for most, would be the Austin Allegro and the open wire kettle. Safety plus, indeed!

« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 10:30:19 AM by Uncle Vernon »
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Offline Dread

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2012, 11:05:51 AM »
Hi Dave

Thanks for the video, it was entertaining but like many other viewers I wish you had shown a true side by side comparison with Scopes/Load/Multimeter etc. of the Cheapo vs the real thing.


If you are going to do a new video let me just add a few suggestions that will make it even more useful.

Have a real one on Hand |O

And here is something you might want to let the viewers know:

If a person wants to know if they have a real one versus a knock off I know a few methods that anyone can try. I will list them from the least reliable to the Most.

1) The Label Info

2) The Balancing trick, the real one can stand up on its plug connectors with ease when put on a level table.   The Fake ones are almost impossible to make them stand up. Sometimes it can be done but it takes many tries, while the real Apple ones do it on almost the first try every time.

3) The Weight:  A real charger weighs 23.07 Grams and the Fake ones vary all over the place.  I have one of the Cheapos that is exactly the same one you used in the video marked “made by Apple”, it weighs 19.56 Grams.   If you don't have access to a precision scale just pop by your local Pharmacy or Jewelry Store and explain that your trying to find out if you bought a real one or Fake and they will almost certainly weigh it for you.

4) Connect it to a scope and the real one has almost no ripple or noise, the fake has a nice big layer of noise.

5) Connect a Load and the real one will go up to 1100ma and maintain aprox 5V but the fake ones tend to drop off between 300ma and 500ma of load depending on the AC supply.  At 110V they only go up to 300-400ma and 220V gets you 450ma to 600ma before the voltage starts to plunge.

Those are the five best tests to know the real from fake (apart from opening and ruining the unit).

For people who don't have any electronics background or equipment the best test is number 3.  Almost all the fakes vary from Apples standard 23g weight and it's pretty easy to get it measured precisely.

Robert
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 11:26:49 AM by Dread »
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Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2012, 04:40:32 PM »
I must have bought the deluxe wun hung lo charger. It has FULL-wave rectification!  ;D
 

Offline T4P

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2012, 05:01:09 PM »
3) The Weight:  A real charger weighs 23.07 Grams and the Fake ones vary all over the place.
Looks like i got one the worst ones! It weighs 30 grams  :-DD I don't even need to plug it into a scope, my portable speaker tells the whole story!
Oh, the 30g one i got can actually charge my phone  :o

I give you : the blown up ones!


« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 05:50:37 PM by T4P »
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Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2012, 05:20:38 PM »
Uncle Vernon:
Of course, not every single thing made in China is crap. Nobody is retarded enough to claim that. But spare me the PC jingo. China specializes in cheap imitations. EU import statistics prove this. They even have their own term for it: Shanzhai.
 

Offline Uncle Vernon

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2012, 05:47:39 PM »
Uncle Vernon:
Of course, not every single thing made in China is crap.
Wasn't that what I had stated previously?

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Nobody is retarded enough to claim that.
Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

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But spare me the PC jingo.
You could spare yourself lots of bother by obtaining a clue.

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China specializes in cheap imitations.
China produces, what its market demands, it has beaten the world in terms of low cost manufacture.

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EU import statistics prove this. They even have their own term for it: Shanzhai.
Well bully for the EU. While they've been busy creating mountains of useless statistics, pointless legislation and meaningless standards, China and India and most of Asia has been busy actually making and selling stuff!  With both the genuine item and the imitations originating in China, anyone using country of origin as a determinant of quality is making themselves look like a rank tool.
Small change got rained on with his own thirty eight ....
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2012, 06:09:48 PM »
Yah meaningless standards about poisonous chemicals and electrical safety regulations. Who needs their health anyway right.  ::)

Sometimes, Chinese stuff is so bad, the problem isn't that it functions poorly, it's that it doesn't stand a hope of working. I call these deliberate deceptions "pretend products".

I don't care if keep your head up yer arse, but if anything makes you look like a tool, it's your personal attacks.
 

Offline Uncle Vernon

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2012, 06:24:26 PM »
Yah meaningless standards about poisonous chemicals and electrical safety regulations. Who needs their health anyway right.  ::)
Who needs a bunch of self important garlic eaters incapable of managing their own economies, setting standard for them?

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Sometimes, Chinese stuff is so bad, the problem isn't that it functions poorly, it's that it doesn't stand a hope of working. I call these deliberate deceptions "pretend products".
Some Chinese stuff isn't and some Chinese stuff is of serviceable quality. You may be slow on the uptake, so I repeat again for your benefit. Country of Origin is not the sole determinant of quality or usability!

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I don't care if keep your head up yer arse,
That's good, but you need to realise how much I care about, what you care about! Nof do I care about the personal insults or profanities you believe necessary to bolster your lack of reasoned or rational thought.

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but if anything makes you look like a tool, it's your personal attacks.
You're the one making the insults persomal. (see above) But if the shoe fits, and you can identify yourself within a generalised criticism then that's your issue.  I cannot help it if you choose to be thick!   8)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 08:21:36 PM by Uncle Vernon »
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Online BravoV

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2012, 06:31:27 PM »
Not sure, but if many of you think that bashing certain country, because they're producing dodgy stuff is unique and new, trust me, nothing new about this at all.


Just ask your parent or grand parents, this kind of bashing has been for ages ....


60's - Damn Japanese clone, why we still buying this shitty stuff, next time buy anything made in German .....

70's - Step over my dead body 1st before you bring those "Made in Hongkong" shit in here.....

80's - Why these days we almost bumped into these shit labelled "Made in Taiwan" or "Korea" almost every where ? ....

90's - Just couldn't stand it anymore, I want a native English staff for this telephone support call , not someone lives thousand miles away speaking English with "Indian" accent clown, anyway, these clowns are robbing "our" IT people's job as well.

2000's - ..as seen in familiar video blog  ;)  "made in German"... <two thumbs up> .......what ? made in China .... ... <thumb down> .... "damn chinese " .........  :-DD



Offline T4P

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2012, 08:08:47 PM »
Rigol is made in china isn't it? But they're now up there with the big names in terms of quality  ^-^
Dave noted that too  ;)
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2012, 08:52:56 PM »
Rigol is made in china isn't it? But they're now up there with the big names in terms of quality  ^-^
Dave noted that too  ;)

When something good comes out of China, I say so. And lots of good stuff comes out of China. Every product gets judged on it's merits.
The reason I harp on about China a lot is because it's boring. I don't want everything in the world to be made in China. I want other countries to keep their manufacturing capability too. Which is why I get as much of my uCurrent made here or outside of China, and get a nice little feeling when I see something that's not made in China.

Dave.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2012, 09:46:18 PM »
Not sure, but if many of you think that bashing certain country, because they're producing dodgy stuff is unique and new, trust me, nothing new about this at all.
Even the West was like this before. I think the Chinese would still be selling completely unisolated supplies if they could get away with it.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2012, 01:38:55 AM »
China is good at low cost manufacture. Depending on who makes it it can be low cost and good or low cost and junk. Plenty of labour, and a lot of it being skilled does do wonders.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2012, 05:25:44 AM »
I had big problems with my macbook adapter. (am currently using a cheap Chinese knockoff because I don't feel like paying $80 for a crApple one.) I just decided to look in their online store to see if they've come down in price at all.  They haven't and all their adapters have two stars or less. People hate these things!
 

Offline Uncle Vernon

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2012, 09:28:26 AM »
something good comes out of China" " Every product gets judged on it's merits."
That's it in a nutshell

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The reason I harp on about China a lot is because it's boring. I don't want everything in the world to be made in China. I want other countries to keep their manufacturing capability too.
I agree entirely. and although China (as a nation) has contributed with exchange rate manipulation,it is a world problem and a problem created by the importing countries and consumers. 

There are / have been / and hopefully will be Chinese readers and participants on this and other forums. if those guys cannot cope with some Wun-Hung-Lo references that is tough, it's a big bad world no PC required. It is an entirely different matter however to see reader comments like "all Chinese are thieves", that is truly ignorant and offensive.
Having to deal with legions of buyers always trying always to drive your minuscule margins below cost would make anyone a tough negotiator and will necessitate a lot of cost and corner cutting in any design.
The reason we have retailers shelves full of Chinese made crap is because we the consumers demand it. Ask retailer how well sales will go for quality product at a 30 to 100% price premium and you soon realise what sells. It's not the fault of the Chinese or of any other low cost manufacturer.

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Which is why I get as much of my uCurrent made here or outside of China, and get a nice little feeling when I see something that's not made in China.
Nice if you can do it, but hardly changing the world. While I'll commend any efforts to support local and diverse industry it remains a drop in the bucket compared to the political efforts to drive industry out of the country, to turn the place into a quarry with bike paths.

Good luck selling Aussie made plug pack supplies at under $100 and making a profit from them, it wont happen. Worker rights and environmental considerations are not part of that purchase decision. We are happy to remain oblivious to all the factors that contribute to our being able to buy junk at low low prices. 

It's not China's fault it's ours!
Small change got rained on with his own thirty eight ....
 

Offline tom66

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Re: EEVblog #388 - Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2012, 12:07:22 PM »
I agree.... but I think it may be fixable, it's just going to be painful.

Thinking about it from a purely economic standpoint: work in China is cheap because it is valued as being worth very little compared to other work. But, despite earning less than ~$15 per day average, they are able to afford rent, electricity, food, water, etc. Certainly not a premium lifestyle -- but FAR more than what $15 would purchase elsewhere.

Why is this? Perhaps because everyone is earning more the value of real work (assembly/production) has gone down to the point at which it doesn't pay enough. But I think that's only happened because we've been willing to get rid of the manufacturing base for cheaper competition overseas. If we still had that, the value of real work would increase, people would be paid more overall and yes while products would be more expensive, people would have more money to spend on them so the increase wouldn't be so noticeable. Once we have more supply, the prices will fall to the point the market will bear and at which employees will be willing to work for.

Problem is, if it were to be fixed... it would mean that we'd probably have at least a few years -- probably decades -- of economic gloom... It would have to be done very slowly. Politicians probably wouldn't support it.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 12:12:59 PM by tom66 »
 


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