Author Topic: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown  (Read 30660 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« on: May 22, 2013, 08:53:43 am »
What's inside the JBC CD-2BB soldering station.
http://bit.ly/180GwAP
http://www.mektronics.com.au/



 

Offline Spikee

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 09:32:04 am »
I also have one and it is awesome compared to all the irons i have used. It beats the cheap ass Aoyue , weller ws80  etc...
It is a bit more expensive but it is worth it!
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Online firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 09:34:57 am »
Probably the EU is misspelled because European Union (EU) is Unión Europea in Spanish (UE). Crovisa is a Spanish company.

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Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 09:36:43 am »
LOL, a bit more expensive. It certainly is a great tool, and in this case you definitely get what you pay for. But over $450?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 10:04:53 am by Lightages »
 

Offline xenocide702

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 09:41:44 am »
I just bought the newer model with USB last week. I took a peek inside (pics coming). No prizes for guessing what they added :D a cp2102 silicon labs USB to UART along with an si8421 digital isolator. I didn't both tracking down what port pin the lines led to. They wouldn't need the hardware UART, they could bit bang it at whatever baudrate they feel like. 

Hopefully they used the serial bootloader on the original model, that'd mean flashing firmware wouldn't be a problem even for those with the older model, if there's any interest I'll take out the board and show a picture of where the pins lead.

PS: Everything Dave said about the iron is true, the thing a BEAST. It really puts our little 40 watt metcals to shame. I love almost everything about it other than the piss poor non removable stand. I may kludge together a little infrared deal on a movable stand to signal it to go to sleep.  :-//
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 09:45:50 am by xenocide702 »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 10:07:08 am »
LOL, a bit more expensive. It certainly is a great tool, and in this case you definitely what you pay for. But over $450?

Here in Oz the Hakko FX-888D is $205
http://www.mektronics.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=8777&category_id=67&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=94&Itemid=57
The JBC is $420
http://www.mektronics.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=4199&category_id=149&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=57
So just over double.
Does it have double the performance? Yes, most definitely.
Is it worth paying double? For me, yes, I'd buy it.
But as always, YMMV.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 10:36:23 am »
LOL, a bit more expensive. It certainly is a great tool, and in this case you definitely get what you pay for. But over $450?

You can always buy Chinese garbage with VFD screen for $150 and then come here to wonder why they keep dying :)
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Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2013, 10:51:39 am »
Well there are other alternatives to Chinese junk and this JBC. It doesn't meant that you have to buy a $450 soldering station to do good soldering nor to get a reliable machine.

If you are a hobbyist then $450 would be better spent on other things and reserve somewhere between $100 to $200 for a decent soldering station. If you are soldering all the time and doing more "professional" work ( I actually despise this word but it is what people use) then I can see spending for something like this.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2013, 10:59:35 am »
A point about the "bloody software" and EMI-related lockups, etc - I don't know how this one works, but dead lockups are a pretty easy problem to get around... All you need is a small timeout circuit triggered repeatedly by the microcontroller. If the MCU locks, it times out and shuts the thing down. Doesn't do much for plain software bugs, but with the power of that processor you could do quite a bit of background self-testing to minimize those as well. (dsPIC33F does have an internal PLL, so it's probably running above that 4 MHz)
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Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 11:07:40 am »
The "quality control tested" mark built into the case is almost as funny as the "Qenuine" sticker on my cheap soldering station... I'd at least like to see a sticker that has to be put on after QC!
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Offline xenocide702

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2013, 11:45:03 am »
http://i.imgur.com/12uBwri.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/h14fBx8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BganVDT.jpg

Fairly large files, be warned. The only picture I got of the additional chips is blurry, but I posted the chip numbers above.
 

Offline Deagle

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2013, 12:02:46 pm »
Get a look at the transformer at 8:30, are those F-F laminations? Can't say I've seen them before.

And that Microchip: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/70165a.pdf
With the memory chip: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/12/129921_1.pdf

maybe they just have the big chip for all the I/O for the display? otherwise the chip still seems like overkill?
 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2013, 02:05:29 pm »
Dave, you did not mention if the case material is hot iron proof I think? What is it made from?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2013, 02:43:22 pm »
If you are a hobbyist then $450 would be better spent on other things and reserve somewhere between $100 to $200 for a decent soldering station. If you are soldering all the time and doing more "professional" work.

Sure. If that's all you have to spend then the Hakko FX-888 will serve you well for a long time.
The JBC (and metcal et.al) is capable of a lot better performance though than the cheaper thermal capacity irons though.
A cheaper iron generally won't prevent you from get the job done, but it may let you do it faster, safer, and with potentially better quality.
YMMV.
 

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Offline komet

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2013, 04:03:40 pm »
This German dealer carries a JBC with an analog base station for 198 EUR:

http://www.weidinger.eu/shop/loet-_und_entloettechnik/jbc/loet-_und_entloetgeraete/jbc_loetstationen/wl26830

I don't know how its performance compares with the digital version. It might be a viable option for the hobbyist.
 

Offline poorchava

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2013, 06:15:50 pm »
my $0.02:
-4MHz crystal doesn't actually mean anything because all dspics have PLL inside
-external eeprom is because dspic33's, pic24h's and pic32's don't have internal eeprom
-dspic33's have the ADC implemented in an interesting way: they can take up to 8 samples simultaneously.
-it has relatively non-shitty (as compared to other PIC microcontrollers) ADC @ INL+/-2, DNL < +/-1, gain error 1.25...3 and offset 1.25...2
-dsp functionalities such as 2 saturating accumulators and a barrel shifter (all 40-bits) and a hardware 17x17 multiplier and MAC were for sure very nice for building an accurate and fast PID regulator

How is the rectification of transformer output voltage done? I haven't noticed a bridge rectifier anywhere. Are they rectifying with single diode? Is the heater powered with AC or DC (AC would be my guess, because they seem to be using back to back N-MOSFETS for switching, and the two 3H7 optocouplers are most likely there to provide a proper gate drive for the MOSFETS).

EDIT:
-done a little searching for discretes near the optocouplers:
Y6W = BZX84C18 (18V zener)
Y4W = BZX84C15 (15V zener)
5D = MMBD914 70V 200mA fast switching diode

looks like a floating gate drive to me :)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 06:34:06 pm by poorchava »
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Offline ddavidebor

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EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2013, 07:40:33 pm »
This German dealer carries a JBC with an analog base station for 198 EUR:

http://www.weidinger.eu/shop/loet-_und_entloettechnik/jbc/loet-_und_entloetgeraete/jbc_loetstationen/wl26830

I don't know how its performance compares with the digital version. It might be a viable option for the hobbyist.

This looks like a render plus photoshop...
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Offline neslekkim

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2013, 08:36:29 pm »
Do anyone know the specs of the upgrade cable for the BB series?, the BC series have an USB connector, but on BB you need an cable, UC-1000, kinda expensive €72.. http://jbctools.com/uc1000-usb-cable-adaptor-product-805-category-9-menu-70.html

But I guess it's some USB-serial conversion?, but will upgrade software accept other things?
Probably not important to upgrade, but it's always cool to have the latest&greatest ;)
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Online rolycat

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2013, 08:54:25 pm »
If you can't justify a new JBC iron, analogue models are often available second-hand for very reasonable prices, and thanks to the excellent build quality are likely to be robust and reliable. I recently picked up an AD2700 for £87 (about $130). It offers similar thermal performance to the CD-2BB and looks and performs like a new unit. A seller on eBay recently had a range of new tips for £9 each, so accessories don't need to be outrageous.

I believe KJDS, who is a member of this forum,  sells used JBC kit from time to time.

 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2013, 10:36:57 pm »
Expensive spares though. http://www.mektronics.com.au/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=150&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=57

If you use several tips and/or do a lot of soldering it becomes expensive. I use about 3 different tips regularly, so it would be around AUS$ 120 (EUR 92) for a new set. For my I-Tool a standard tip costs EUR 8 and a spare heater element is EUR 80. And the heater itself will outlive several tips (as the irons I had before). It's like the inkjet printers with combined ink & printhead cartridge vs. separated print head and ink tanks. 
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2013, 11:34:52 pm »
For me the most interesting thing about these JBC irons is the apparently great performance without rf heating and curie point temperature control.

That has got to be down to the tips with integral heaters and sensors. If it works so well even compared to complex and expensive rf heating systems why don't more manufacturers (including cheap and Chinese) take the same approach?
 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2013, 01:08:22 am »
Expensive spares though. http://www.mektronics.com.au/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=150&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=57

If you use several tips and/or do a lot of soldering it becomes expensive. I use about 3 different tips regularly, so it would be around AUS$ 120 (EUR 92) for a new set. For my I-Tool a standard tip costs EUR 8 and a spare heater element is EUR 80. And the heater itself will outlive several tips (as the irons I had before). It's like the inkjet printers with combined ink & printhead cartridge vs. separated print head and ink tanks.

For using several tips in low cost I opted for OKI/Metcal PS-900. Also for having a separate tray. Could not accept the single unit configuration ergonomically. That one cost me 149 UKP. Proved adequate for my power needs. Puts out 60W. I also like the ERSA Icon Nano. The JBC has a more agile handle VS PS-900, versatility, and peak output. The NANO has as agile a handle, cheaper spares, separate tray, not so powerful. I would go for the top JBC separate tray model if buying cost and long run spares expenses were not a problem for me.
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2013, 01:55:51 am »
I believe KJDS, who is a member of this forum,  sells used JBC kit from time to time.

flash.pc also:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-jbc-cd-2bb-soldering-station-extras-(brand-new)/
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-(brand-new)-3-x-jbc-c245-soldering-tips-for-t245-handpiece-factory-sealed/

Bought the station and tips from him, good service, good price. (for me in Norway at least)
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2013, 05:51:46 am »
one fail point though ... the tip is grounded ... BAD DESIGN !
there should be a 1 meg resistor between tip and ground. ( long body ,or three 1206 in series to avoid flashover )

you want a pathway from tip to avoid ESD problems.
you may want to put a 100pF cap in parallel with 2/3 of the total 1 meg resistance to deflect fast transients.

having the tip shorted hard to ground is bad. very bad.
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Offline robrenz

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2013, 06:15:05 am »
If you use several tips and/or do a lot of soldering it becomes expensive. I use about 3 different tips regularly, so it would be around AUS$ 120 (EUR 92) for a new set. For my I-Tool a standard tip costs EUR 8 and a spare heater element is EUR 80. And the heater itself will outlive several tips (as the irons I had before). It's like the inkjet printers with combined ink & printhead cartridge vs. separated print head and ink tanks.

I am not bashing your I-Tool but having a separate heater and tip guarantees that the performance on high thermal demand joints will not be in the same league of JBC, Ersa or Metcal.

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2013, 06:39:43 am »
If you can't justify a new JBC iron, analogue models are often available second-hand for very reasonable prices, and thanks to the excellent build quality are likely to be robust and reliable. I recently picked up an AD2700 for £87 (about $130). It offers similar thermal performance to the CD-2BB and looks and performs like a new unit. A seller on eBay recently had a range of new tips for £9 each, so accessories don't need to be outrageous.

I believe KJDS, who is a member of this forum,  sells used JBC kit from time to time.

I just picked up a load of JBC kit yesterday. My arms now ache, though mostly for the two tonnes of scrap that I carried out to a lorry and the other tonne of possibly useful stuff. Yesterday I learnt not to bid on something described as "contents of room" without visiting the room. There was a lot of junk not in the photos.

Amongst the normal JBC irons are some separate stands and cables to connect them back to the base unit. I also collected a dozen or more Metcals and some interesting Pace stuff. They are all very good irons, will try and find some time to spare to post more details at the weekend.

Offline iXod

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2013, 07:16:35 am »
Why all the processing power?

/watch?v=IhZORsiawKc

Its there marketing vid. It describes how important it is to:

1. quickly heat the tip
2. regulate the temperature
3. most importantly, avoid overshoot

This is also how they get radically increased tip life (the auto-shutoff also helps with this).

Trying this with a few 3-terminal semis ain't going to accomplish the same results.

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Offline M. András

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2013, 07:26:41 am »
one fail point though ... the tip is grounded ... BAD DESIGN !
there should be a 1 meg resistor between tip and ground. ( long body ,or three 1206 in series to avoid flashover )

you want a pathway from tip to avoid ESD problems.
you may want to put a 100pF cap in parallel with 2/3 of the total 1 meg resistance to deflect fast transients.

having the tip shorted hard to ground is bad. very bad.
the wd1m i have have a nice external ground plug, if its not plugged in the bottom of the unit the iron itself is grounded with 100k resistance if you plug it in it cuts the conection to the mains earth and you can solder to that plug any value resistor you want, there must be some reason they did a "high end" station this way with directly grounded tip. user manuals arent too detailed
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2013, 07:50:20 am »
If you use several tips and/or do a lot of soldering it becomes expensive. I use about 3 different tips regularly, so it would be around AUS$ 120 (EUR 92) for a new set. For my I-Tool a standard tip costs EUR 8 and a spare heater element is EUR 80. And the heater itself will outlive several tips (as the irons I had before). It's like the inkjet printers with combined ink & printhead cartridge vs. separated print head and ink tanks.

I am not bashing your I-Tool but having a separate heater and tip guarantees that the performance on high thermal demand joints will not be in the same league of JBC, Ersa or Metcal.

Got no problems with large connectors or ground planes. The i-Tool is connected to an ERSA i-CON2 ;-)
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2013, 08:00:22 am »
the wd1m i have have a nice external ground plug, if its not plugged in the bottom of the unit the iron itself is grounded with 100k resistance if you plug it in it cuts the conection to the mains earth and you can solder to that plug any value resistor you want, there must be some reason they did a "high end" station this way with directly grounded tip. user manuals arent too detailed

The manual for the i-CON states, that the station is "hard gounded in accordance with Military and ESA standard".
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2013, 08:19:43 am »
-external eeprom is because dspic33's, pic24h's and pic32's don't have internal eeprom
The dspic has no internal EEPROM, but it can program its own flash memory. But only 10,000 erase/write cycles are guaranteed, which might be the reason for the external memory. Looks like they expect that you change the temperature a lot. It is the M24C16, a 16 kBit I2C EEPROM, which you can get for 20 cents at digikey in larger quantities. Can't find a guaranteed number of erase/write cycles, but usually it is millions of times for EEPROMs, and even more, if the software uses a good wear leveling algorithm.
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2013, 08:34:32 am »
-external eeprom is because dspic33's, pic24h's and pic32's don't have internal eeprom
The dspic has no internal EEPROM, but it can program its own flash memory. But only 10,000 erase/write cycles are guaranteed, which might be the reason for the external memory. Looks like they expect that you change the temperature a lot. It is the M24C16, a 16 kBit I2C EEPROM, which you can get for 20 cents at digikey in larger quantities. Can't find a guaranteed number of erase/write cycles, but usually it is millions of times for EEPROMs, and even more, if the software uses a good wear leveling algorithm.
The  endurance issue can be worked around, e.g. by a timeout to wait a while before writing, however it is still a PITA as you have to deal with erase block sizes, and dick around with linker configs to allocate the flash. Adding an eeprom is often much just easier, and cost is minimal.
I suspect another reason for using this chip is that Microchip provide lots of libraries for LCD control, DSP etc. 
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Offline Rufus

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2013, 09:19:42 am »
I suspect another reason for using this chip is that Microchip provide lots of libraries for LCD control, DSP etc.

It isn't a cheap part at $5.32 5k up on the Microchip site so it seems a strange choice to me. The Microchip graphics library isn't worth much - you can probably buy something better for $1000.  Can't really believe it takes 256k of FLASH or fast ADCs or DSP instructions or many MIPS to run a temperature control loop for a soldering iron.

100 pin package plenty of which look unused. They would save about a $ going to a 64 pin package and another dropping to 128k FLASH.

If the LCD has no controller and they drive in with the dsPIC ram and dma it might help justify the choice, otherwise it looks like cost wasn't much of a consideration for this design.
 

Offline robrenz

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2013, 11:45:19 am »
I am not bashing your I-Tool but having a separate heater and tip guarantees that the performance on high thermal demand joints will not be in the same league of JBC, Ersa or Metcal.

Got no problems with large connectors or ground planes. The i-Tool is connected to an ERSA i-CON2 ;-)

My apologies, I mistakenly assumed that a separate heater and tip would not be capable of as fast a control loop as a integrated tip/heater/sensor.

Offline cthree

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2013, 11:59:37 am »
My ghetto style ws51 does a decent job for what I need. If I find myself wanting Ill keep this unit in mind.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2013, 12:23:24 pm »
I suspect another reason for using this chip is that Microchip provide lots of libraries for LCD control, DSP etc.

It isn't a cheap part at $5.32 5k up on the Microchip site so it seems a strange choice to me. The Microchip graphics library isn't worth much - you can probably buy something better for $1000.  Can't really believe it takes 256k of FLASH or fast ADCs or DSP instructions or many MIPS to run a temperature control loop for a soldering iron.

100 pin package plenty of which look unused. They would save about a $ going to a 64 pin package and another dropping to 128k FLASH.

If the LCD has no controller and they drive in with the dsPIC ram and dma it might help justify the choice, otherwise it looks like cost wasn't much of a consideration for this design.

Im sure choice had nothing to do with potential 60mips performance. Saving a buck? Its like advocating Bentley should save some money switching to Philips Stereo systems, after all they are good bang for the buck in home entertainment market.
Performance of this iron has nothing to do with Pid control loop, and everything with heater/tip quality.
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Offline Rufus

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2013, 01:28:48 pm »
Saving a buck? Its like advocating Bentley should save some money switching to Philips Stereo systems, after all they are good bang for the buck in home entertainment market.

Damn, I never thought of adding 128k of FLASH full of FFs and 40 no-connect pins on the processor to improve the quality and reliability of my designs.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2013, 02:28:35 pm »
Saving a buck? Its like advocating Bentley should save some money switching to Philips Stereo systems, after all they are good bang for the buck in home entertainment market.

Damn, I never thought of adding 128k of FLASH full of FFs and 40 no-connect pins on the processor to improve the quality and reliability of my designs.

dsPICs are higher grade parts compared to Atmega8s.
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Offline BravoV

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2013, 02:35:30 pm »
dsPICs are higher grade parts compared to Atmega8s.

Interesting, are there any "trustworthy" references supporting that claim ?
 

Offline poorchava

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2013, 04:21:28 pm »
Quote
Im sure choice had nothing to do with potential 60mips performance.

dspic33f's go only up to 40MIPS, dspic33e's go up to 60.
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Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2013, 11:18:16 pm »
Got no problems with large connectors or ground planes. The i-Tool is connected to an ERSA i-CON2 ;-)

My apologies, I mistakenly assumed that a separate heater and tip would not be capable of as fast a control loop as a integrated tip/heater/sensor.

No worries! :-) The first time I used the i-Tool I was amazed how fast that tiny iron was able to heat up and output 150W if required. And you can adjust the control loop any time for optimizing the heating (three levels from low thermal load with no overshoot to high thermal load with overshoot). The display has a bargraph at the bottom to display the power currently used for heating. It's a good indicator when to go for a larger tip or to adjust the control loop. BTW, a single tool i-CON with the i-Tool costs as much (or less :-) as the JBC from the teardown.
 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2013, 12:14:32 am »
ERSA has great expertise in industrial soldering train like machines and hand tools. I always liked their tips for solder flow. Metallurgical know-how obviously. In some thermal recovery and overshoot consecutive joints tests (marketing data) the JBC was the more consistent, followed closely by Metcal, the ERSA was kinda shaky, but the big I-Con is very parametric to set as you say. The ~13MHZ bigger dual port Metcal has a power indication bar too. The JBC uses a lot the peak power electrical push thing to heat up fast and to stay dynamic. I don't know what that means for tip/heater combo life when soldering high mass all the time. Professional users would know the parts exchange cost long term factor.
 

Offline brabus

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2013, 05:33:23 pm »
Saving a buck? Its like advocating Bentley should save some money switching to Philips Stereo systems, after all they are good bang for the buck in home entertainment market.

Damn, I never thought of adding 128k of FLASH full of FFs and 40 no-connect pins on the processor to improve the quality and reliability of my designs.

Maybe it's just a production constraint, probably they use the same uC on the whole series of JBC soldering irons, also for the stations with three or four tools.
I don't think it's a matter of quantities, production is just much easier if BOM is somehow similar for every product; I'm thinking about the hardware guys, but the firmware ones as well.

There's only one way to discover it: tear down 'em all!!!  ;D
 

Offline Fezder

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2013, 12:58:40 am »
Nice video, again! I'm bit confused about hard-earth on the tip, is it the same thing that must be on lookout like say, 'scopes earth, when tinkering with live circuits? BUT, when is it really necessary to solder live electronics? could someone tell? thanks! :)
Both analog/digital hobbyist, reparing stuff from time to time
 

Offline ddavidebor

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EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2013, 01:37:59 am »
Only for change a  battery
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Offline abyrvalg

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2013, 06:41:31 am »
There's only one way to discover it: tear down 'em all!!!  ;D

Done, CD/CF series firmware is ~240k after stripping. dspic's instruction encoding looks a bit inefficient, there are lots of zeroes (not empty areas, but single zeroes between nonzero bytes). There are many kbs of text also (several languages), inefficiently encoded too - a zero byte after each two symbols (must be related to 24-bit architecture of this cpu).
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2013, 07:26:18 am »
Done, CD/CF series firmware is ~240k after stripping.

There is no protection to prevent reading the PIC firmware - sheesh.

I count about 30 20 character strings in the user interface in the manual, in 30 languages that would still only be about 17k of FLASH.

The 16 bit PIC tools use 32 bit hex file format to hold 24 bit words so every 4th byte will be zero. Constants in FLASH normally waste 8 bits of the 24 bit wide FLASH words although you can jump through some small hoops to avoid that.

Even if it is 240k less 25% I am amazed. I have two PIC24 designs, one with mono QVGA and touch screen the other with colour QVGA and a lot more buttons/inputs. Both have more graphics and far more to do than I can imagine controlling a soldering iron involves yet both use about 60% of the FLASH in a 128k part.
 

Offline alter Ratz

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2013, 07:32:52 am »
A point about the "bloody software" and EMI-related lockups, etc - I don't know how this one works, but dead lockups are a pretty easy problem to get around... All you need is a small timeout circuit triggered repeatedly by the microcontroller. If the MCU locks, it times out and shuts the thing down.
Does it not have an integrated watchdog. Even the cheapest MCUs have that, and I suppose a MCU with an integrated DPD would be in a higher price range and most ceartainly has a watchdog.
 

Offline abyrvalg

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2013, 07:35:15 am »
240k is after stripping that fourth always 00 byte. I didn't checked the protection fuse, got fws from update software. There is an empty address area at the beginning, must be some bootloader that isn't overwritten.
Also noticed interesting detail: all models fws mention same all kinds of possible tools (i.e. CD series knows about NP105 nano tweezers)
 

Offline ddavidebor

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EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2013, 03:09:52 pm »
Yes... This pic is a damn complex thing... Was not better in term of reliability something old?
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Offline neslekkim

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2013, 07:30:43 pm »
since you people now are playing with the firmware, anyone found an way of uploading it on BB, without the jbc specific cable?
 

Offline abyrvalg

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2013, 01:28:46 am »
since you people now are playing with the firmware, anyone found an way of uploading it on BB, without the jbc specific cable?

Done, found the pinout and updated my CD-2BB some minutes ago. Serial port is white 7-pin connector. Position the board so you can read dsPIC33FJ256 marking normally, pinout starting from top pin:
  • nMCLR (don't use)
  • +3.3V
  • GND
  • AN26/RE2 (don't use)
  • AN27/RE3 (don't use)
  • RxD (station's receive, connect to PC's TxD)
  • TxD (station's transmit, connect to PC's RxD)

!!! WARNING 1 !!! These pins have 3.3V levels, don't connect them to RS-232 port directly (evil +-12V dwells there) !!!
!!! WARNING 2 !!! Better disconnect the iron from the station before connecting the station to PC !!!
I've left my one connected and experienced an unpleasant moment - the station started blinking between "NO TOOL" and (quickly rising) temperature display, tool's tip reached slight red glow before I cut the power. I suspect an overvoltage from my USB-Serial converter (it has 3.6V levels) or ground current caused some measurement failure. After disconnecting from PC the station is ok now. If you plan to use some "run time" features like "Lab register" datalogger - keep that in mind (use optocouplers ?).

There are no quirks in the update process itself - connected the station throught FTDI-based USB-Serial cable (so no need to use CP210x as in original cable), started the updater, switched the station on when it asked "reset the station", it said "found CD/CF station with version XXX, will update to version YYY", pressed "Update" and waited several minutes (a bit slow process !) until sw said "Done". Logging entire USB communication just for curiosity :)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 01:33:43 am by abyrvalg »
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2013, 07:06:56 am »
cool!
I have this one that I was hoping to use http://www.adafruit.com/products/70
I also have this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/320794559603

How do you know its cp210x in the orginial cable?, does it exist schematics somewhere?
 

Offline abyrvalg

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2013, 08:57:24 am »
cool!
I have this one that I was hoping to use http://www.adafruit.com/products/70
I also have this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/320794559603

How do you know its cp210x in the orginial cable?, does it exist schematics somewhere?

Both should work just fine, 3.3V fits exactly. Just get some compatible 2mm pitch 7-pin connector (I've used a piece of this http://www.sos.sk/?str=371&artnum=128531&name=bl1x09g-st4-3-rm2-zl265-09sg), solder gnd/rxd/txd to it and you are ready to go.

CP210x drivers are installed by updater sw, that's how I do know about it, no schematics. But there are no checks, any usb-serial should work.
 

Offline moemoe

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2014, 10:08:27 pm »
As you asked for some pictures of the newer model with integrated USB, here they are. Looks like some minor changes in the main PCB, and an additional opto coupler and an additional cp2102. And they also changed the transformer brand.

Btw, their update-tool sucks, because it
a) forces you to install the complete driver packages, even if the driver was already set up correctly before.
b) contains all firmware images for all stations, so you always need to download a new >300Mb package for updating your single station. No possibility to just download the one needed file from within the application.

https://github.com/maugsburger/
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Offline LPaul

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2015, 07:21:22 pm »
Hello,

In this video Dave says he plan to do a review of this unit. Is it still planned or did he make a forum review?
 

Offline moemoe

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2015, 10:14:26 pm »
At least with the latest firmware (didn't check for a year or so) they implemented the feature to preset 3 different fixed temperatures you can switch between with the arrow keys.

IMHO very usefull (310-330-350 are used 99% of the time), but sadly this forces you to go into the menu, enter the PIN and disable the feature if you need any different temperature. It would be so handy if you could just press up/down longer and get into free temp mode.
https://github.com/maugsburger/
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