Author Topic: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay  (Read 56191 times)

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Offline dentaku

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #75 on: July 27, 2013, 05:40:19 am »
Gordon Mah Ung http://www.maximumpc.com/tags/gordon_mah_ung at Maximum PC does his rant of the week at the end of their podcast every TWO weeks. (but it's still called rant of THE WEEK)

PPS: More rants plz! :-)

I have a new segment coming soon that will do just that.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 11:50:11 pm by dentaku »
 

Offline synapsis

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #76 on: July 27, 2013, 05:52:27 am »
Dave is like the Andy Rooney of EE with his rants.

For the non-Americans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #77 on: July 27, 2013, 07:04:13 am »
Dave is like the Andy Rooney of EE with his rants.

For the non-Americans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney

And with better teeth.

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Offline Herr R aus B

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #78 on: July 27, 2013, 07:07:41 am »
Dave is like the Andy Rooney of EE with his rants.

For the non-Americans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney

I particularily like Dave`s rants because they help me extending my english in a way, that common english lessons wouldnt be suitable for :)
 

Offline markce

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #79 on: July 27, 2013, 07:28:28 am »
From what i've seen, you will be glad to buy a good universal scope without any defects in EU for Eur 100 all inclusive, but without probes.
 

Offline synapsis

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2013, 07:40:08 am »
Dave is like the Andy Rooney of EE with his rants.

For the non-Americans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney

I particularily like Dave`s rants because they help me extending my english in a way, that common english lessons wouldnt be suitable for :)

The same reason I watched The Simpsons and Stromberg in German.  :-+
 

Offline amtpdb

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2013, 07:44:01 am »
Has anyone noticed that when you find an item cheap and no one has bid on it, after you bid on it someone that has (0) or (1) (either never purchased or purchased 1 item) puts in a high bid! I noticed that ebay now lets sellers bid on their own items ( you think number 0 or 1 might be them)!!  I see today alot of the scopes I was watching have gone up in price as more people are bidding on them! I wish I could find the ones that you guys are mentioning here. I have been watching for the great cheap deal for some time! Not good but great!
 

Offline dfmischler

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2013, 08:16:48 am »
Has anyone noticed that when you find an item cheap and no one has bid on it, after you bid on it someone that has (0) or (1) (either never purchased or purchased 1 item) puts in a high bid! I noticed that ebay now lets sellers bid on their own items ( you think number 0 or 1 might be them)!!  I see today alot of the scopes I was watching have gone up in price as more people are bidding on them! I wish I could find the ones that you guys are mentioning here. I have been watching for the great cheap deal for some time! Not good but great!

If this is happening to you then you are not doing it right.  The best (aka only) way to win at ebay is to bid in the last few seconds of the auction.  It doesn't matter how you do this, whether you are sitting there waiting to put in your bid, or if you use sniping software.  But it works better than anything else.  If everyone sniped then it would become a silent auction where everyone gets one bid, instead of a bidding war where prices are sometimes raised to unreasonable levels due to excessive emotional commitment.

 

Offline ElectroIrradiator

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2013, 08:39:50 am »
From what i've seen, you will be glad to buy a good universal scope without any defects in EU for Eur 100 all inclusive, but without probes.

How much have you been searching? There are currently more than 1200 (twelve hundred) hits for 'oscilloscope -usb' on ebay.co.uk. Just the first page of hits has several candidate auctions, which all end within the next 24 hours.

 
 

Offline markce

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2013, 08:44:16 am »
Quote
DON'T TELL ME THAT..
Yes I do, there are just not that many people selling a scope in good known condition close to you
for very little money. If they truly know the "like new" state, they want some serious money.
In all other cases, it's your gamble...
My personal experience: none of the 10 measurent devices, including scopes, I bough second hand were without defects.
Some of them are major and costly to fix or work around. None of them impressed me in demo situ.
This is not a market for starters.
 

Offline markce

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #85 on: July 27, 2013, 08:54:10 am »
Quote
How much have you been searching?
I'm in a small market (NL). Most UK sellers won't ship to EU countries, most German sellers only sell to Germany. For the wanted pieces, prices rapidly increase close to selling time. Look at actual selling prices, not current bidding.
 

Offline ElectroIrradiator

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #86 on: July 27, 2013, 09:32:04 am »
I'm in a small market (NL). Most UK sellers won't ship to EU countries, most German sellers only sell to Germany. For the wanted pieces, prices rapidly increase close to selling time. Look at actual selling prices, not current bidding.

You said 'within the EU', not limiting yourself to the Netherlands. In Denmark the situation is superficially similar in that we don't have a single dominant auction site, which everybody uses. Here I'd expect I have to get off my rear and get in contact with the local radio amateurs, or use some of the other options mentioned previously in the thread. These personal methods also have the advantage of you being able to test and inspect the instrument, especially before any payment changes hands.

Finally, if a seller of an old ~20 MHz analog, dual trace scope in good working order asks more than 100 Euro or so, then he needs to be told about the existence of the Rigol DS1052E and similar DSO models, which are ~250 Euro new.

Or maybe that big company implosion some years ago down in Eindhoven sucked all the spare 'scopes in NL into an empty void? :D
 

Offline edy

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #87 on: July 27, 2013, 10:59:50 am »
Thanks Dave for this excellent video.... It inspired me to look into some local options for buying oscilloscopes. Turns out you can get them for $100 and perhaps under if you bargain, without having to deal with shipping and waiting and wondering if it will work or not.

I will explain...

For those in Toronto area, options include Craigslist and Kijiji, as well as several good electronic surplus supply shops around town. I called up a few and searched those sites for local people selling stuff, and turned out quite a number of scopes (Hitachi, Tektronix) for $100 that are good condition and working and available to pick up and use immediately, no fuss no muss.

Best of all, no worries about getting damage in shipping, surprises with duty and brokerage "hostage" fees and you can play around with the gear to make sure it works right there! Beats eBay in that regard.

Oh... And some of the shops or people are willing to barter in exchange for perhaps other gear you may have laying around... Photo equipment, tools, bikes, etc. So it can be a fun trade.

I will definitely check out local listings and surplus shops to see what comes around, but I doubt I will bother with eBay unless something unbelievably cheap comes along which is probably too good to be true. Unfortunately anything even as cheap as $50 on eBay turns into $100+ with shipping so I am not better off. I would rather buy local, know what I'm getting and pick it up immediately.

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Offline senso

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2013, 12:27:30 pm »
I didn't want to start a little war nor I want to hurt someone.
In some items I said I would gladly pay for all the shipping expenses(i would not even expect otherwise), but the sellers always said they only ship to Germany, and I understand their reasons and wish them all the luck, but at least now I have a friend in Germany, so it is no more a problem.
 

Offline Sigmoid

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2013, 02:50:58 pm »
How to use ebay, short version:

Many people blogged about this, there are youtube guides and tutorials, this is just the low-down.
Rule #1: Never bid before the end of the auction (end means the last few seconds).
Rule #2: Decide the MAXIMUM amount you are willing to pay for it, and put it in as the bid. Get a realistic picture of prices by viewing closed auctions.
You'll get the item for the maximum opposing bid + minimum increment. Say there is a scope listed for $19, and nobody has bid yet. You've researched and see that these often go around $70. It looks really good, and is hardly used, so you decide to go as far as $80 to get it. Last moment you enter a bid of $80, and at the same time, someone else enters a bid of $50.
You'll get the scope for $50 + minimum increment (say, for example, $55).
Rule #3: NEVER get caught up in a bidding contest with someone. One bid, with your maximum. That's it. If someone pays more for it, you didn't lose - you won by NOT wasting money. :)
 

Offline Kernel

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2013, 04:17:08 pm »
Moving right along.
That Snap On Digital Oscilloscope for sale in Scoresby, Victoria (near me) - do you guys think it could be a simple fix? Cause I bet it would be an excellent scope in working order and I'd be over the moon if I got it for $50-$100 and only had to replace a transistor or capacitor or something. I'm just getting into Electronics and I am looking into getting my first scope.
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2013, 05:12:33 pm »
Moving right along.
That Snap On Digital Oscilloscope for sale in Scoresby, Victoria (near me) - do you guys think it could be a simple fix? Cause I bet it would be an excellent scope in working order and I'd be over the moon if I got it for $50-$100 and only had to replace a transistor or capacitor or something. I'm just getting into Electronics and I am looking into getting my first scope.
if you are just getting into electronics, fixing a scope is not realistic. That' s an advanced exercise.
Buy a working one.
 

Offline Kernel

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #92 on: July 27, 2013, 05:57:38 pm »
Moving right along.
That Snap On Digital Oscilloscope for sale in Scoresby, Victoria (near me) - do you guys think it could be a simple fix? Cause I bet it would be an excellent scope in working order and I'd be over the moon if I got it for $50-$100 and only had to replace a transistor or capacitor or something. I'm just getting into Electronics and I am looking into getting my first scope.
if you are just getting into electronics, fixing a scope is not realistic. That' s an advanced exercise.
Buy a working one.
Okay.
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #93 on: July 27, 2013, 09:34:25 pm »
I bought a TEK 2246 mod A from a guy on eBay. Turned out he was local; bought a second more cosmetic challenged one also. Put the rougher one into service first - it lasted about 3 months sadly. But, I had the nicer one to put into service immediately. It's been OK so far (about a year), but there's always that 1-2 second delay between pressing the power switch and the fan coming on and the front panel waking up, during which time I sweat just a bit.

"Is is going to work?"

To me, Tektronix is just that way. Nice 'scopes, but they are like owning a Harley Davidson motorcycle. If you love them, if you can fix them, if you don't mind oil stains on your living room floor and the smell of carburetor cleaner, go for it.

Otherwise maybe just buy an older analog Kenwood or Kenwood-built B&K, that just works. (I'm sure this applies to Hitachi and some other pacific rim products as well.)

Still, I could  not help myself the other day. I won an eBay auction for a 465 with video sync option for 85.00 plus about 24.00 freight. Taking a bit of a risk, it was sold as, "for parts or repair" but the pictures revealed the front panel controls were WAY wrong to show a proper trace (showing B time base intensified, focus and position controls fully clockwise, etc).
I expect it probably works, but I don't know if I'm man enough to fix any really kinky problem it might have...

And the things are about 40 years old now, so there's all those cap problems and they aren't the easiest things physically to work on...

Starting to sweat again...

Edit  8-3-2013:

Open 5500uF C1542 in main power supply 15v source. Replaced it, now had functions work but still had blanking related problem. Actually could not turn intensity down to cutoff. Shorted 1uF at 150 volt (C1481) CRT bias circuit, hidden under the high voltage shield. Probably your Tek geeks have seen lots of these issues...

Older Tek scopes can be a little scary, for me anyway, but got a good working 465 with video sync option for 85.00. Not interested in a full re-cap of the power supply at this time - it's a big job, and I got other stuff to do...

I'm a happy guy at this point.  :-+
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 09:29:39 pm by mzacharias »
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #94 on: July 27, 2013, 09:47:33 pm »
Moving right along.
That Snap On Digital Oscilloscope for sale in Scoresby, Victoria (near me) - do you guys think it could be a simple fix? Cause I bet it would be an excellent scope in working order and I'd be over the moon if I got it for $50-$100 and only had to replace a transistor or capacitor or something. I'm just getting into Electronics and I am looking into getting my first scope.
if you are just getting into electronics, fixing a scope is not realistic. That' s an advanced exercise.
Buy a working one.
Okay.

By the way, that Snap On is an automotive scope for car diagnosis. It's not for electronics use.
 

Offline markce

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #95 on: July 28, 2013, 08:55:58 am »
Ok, my point is: depends largely where you are located. For US, Dave might be right. With some effort and patience you will get one.
But, will it be a working one, also after e few month of increased experience? And can you service it (parts avalable)? In EU $ might be Eur. Markets are smaller, price very more. Tek is expensive and spare parts are not that easy as in US. Buy wisely, not just price.
I've still a Hameg 203 that I bought as a student, and keep because performance exceeds it's sales value. It's extremely reliable, but because many are sold in EU, prices are not that high. If everything fails (my tek2236) this will do the fault finding. Very good backup. All parts still available, no obvious weak points, pots wear out...
 

alm

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2013, 11:46:01 am »
But, will it be a working one, also after e few month of increased experience?
What's a few months if it's already been working for 30+ years? Why would parts that have survived for many years suddenly die? It just had a very thorough burn-in that removed all the weak parts.

And can you service it (parts avalable)? In EU $ might be Eur. Markets are smaller, price very more. Tek is expensive and spare parts are not that easy as in US. Buy wisely, not just price.
Many analog scopes largely use jellybean parts. ASICs are fairly rare. Full schematics and excellent service documentation are often available, especially for the popular models. Whole companies (eg. Qservice in Greece) have made a business out of providing replacement parts for old scopes. They're going to be much easier to service then any $300 Chinese scope if it dies after the warranty expires.
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2013, 01:26:30 pm »
How to use ebay, short version:

Many people blogged about this, there are youtube guides and tutorials, this is just the low-down.
Rule #1: Never bid before the end of the auction (end means the last few seconds).
Rule #2: Decide the MAXIMUM amount you are willing to pay for it, and put it in as the bid. Get a realistic picture of prices by viewing closed auctions.
You'll get the item for the maximum opposing bid + minimum increment. Say there is a scope listed for $19, and nobody has bid yet. You've researched and see that these often go around $70. It looks really good, and is hardly used, so you decide to go as far as $80 to get it. Last moment you enter a bid of $80, and at the same time, someone else enters a bid of $50.
You'll get the scope for $50 + minimum increment (say, for example, $55).
Rule #3: NEVER get caught up in a bidding contest with someone. One bid, with your maximum. That's it. If someone pays more for it, you didn't lose - you won by NOT wasting money. :)

There is a lot of "folklore" about the best way to bid on Ebay. If you have a maximum that you are willing to pay then what is the difference if you make the bid 7 days before auction end or 7 seconds? 
As I see it there are two differences. First you commit needlessly early to an item and another may get listed that you prefer and now you will regret bidding early. Secondly you give others plenty of time to convince themselves that the item is more appealing and that they can pay more.

If the item is unlikely to go unnoticed and therefore there is no chance you'll get it for a bargain price then just bid your maximum as early as you care to. But don't bid nice round numbers. eg $10, bid 11.52. That gets you past the next nice round number past $10 ie $11 and also gets you past $11.50. That's my addition to the Ebay bidding "folklore". ;)

I definitely agree with rule #3 above. Set a maximum and NEVER EVER go above it in a bidding frenzy.

Dave hinted at another important aspect to bidding on Ebay. Patience, is paramount. Look at past sales and you will often see that there is no need to hurry and fixate on one item. With particular regard to old analogue scopes there is no particular value in brand snobbery. 
 

alm

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2013, 01:34:21 pm »
Bidding early makes it more likely for other people to get into a bidding frenzy, even though they might originally have been willing to pay less than you were. If there are no bids, someone might assume that it will go for a fairly low price and place a low or reasonable offer. If there is already a bid, then people often keep increasing their bid until they're on top. If you bid on an item someone else was already bidding on, then you encourage them to increase their bid.
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2013, 02:40:23 pm »
Bidding early makes it more likely for other people to get into a bidding frenzy, even though they might originally have been willing to pay less than you were. If there are no bids, someone might assume that it will go for a fairly low price and place a low or reasonable offer. If there is already a bid, then people often keep increasing their bid until they're on top. If you bid on an item someone else was already bidding on, then you encourage them to increase their bid.

You've summed up my thoughts exactly. At what point though does it all become pointless guesswork? Yes if there are bids already you often see someone, for reasons I can't fathom, chiping away with ever increasing bids just to ensure they are on top. Until someone else bids higher. They often stop at nice round numbers so you can get an edge by not doing the same.

Does the presence of a bid encourage more people to bid than it discourages those who think an item with a bid is not going to be snapped up as a bargain? Who knows.

At the end of the auction after everyone has bid the item gets sold to the highest bidder regardless of the bidding shenanigans that has gone on. The last second sniper will still always win the item IF they bid more than you were prepared to. If you lose the bidding because you tried to be clever and wound up having bid less than you were willing to pay then you only have yourself to blame.

If you can't (or won't) outbid someone then the only other way to get a bargain is to outwait them by patiently sticking to your maximum and trying again and again. I'm pretty sure Dave was alluding to that with his use of stored searches.

Asking if an item can be posted even though it says "pickup only" is always worth trying because some sellers can't be bothered to deal with the Ebay postage calculator. Me for example. :)
 


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