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EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: EEVblog on July 25, 2013, 12:49:19 PM

Title: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on July 25, 2013, 12:49:19 PM
Dave shows you how it's not that hard to find that mythical $50 analog oscilloscope on ebay. At least in the US and UK.

EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZfbo-2sd1A#ws)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: erick on July 25, 2013, 02:06:33 PM
I've been trying to get one since I saw that first video.

Here in Brazil, the closest I got was a 15 MHz Tektronix 922, for around $200. I'll keep trying, anyway...
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Lightages on July 25, 2013, 02:08:44 PM
Yes, as Dave said, not going to work everywhere. I am sure that here in Chile it would be almost impossible. If I did find something here I would not pay a cent for it until I saw it working. Used here usually means totally worn out and not worth anything.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: calin on July 25, 2013, 03:12:22 PM
I got an 3 channel 100 Mhz LBO-516 few weeks ago for 19.99 (+ 25$ shipping) .. it was dinged badly on one side and not really working. But I said that the worst risk is one week without Starbucks so ... got it in, and the only fix I had to do has involved a hammer :) - simply the outer case was bent and it was shorting a board. After the required banging and cleanup i have an really nice scope ... The only problem is that now I am feeling guilty to spend 10-15$ on some probes.

I agree iith you guys, in US is easier to get this kind of smoking deals .. with a bit of luck of course and risks.

In case u wanna see it .. here .. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leader-LBO-516-100Mhz-3-Channel-Analog-Oscilloscope-/161036150846? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leader-LBO-516-100Mhz-3-Channel-Analog-Oscilloscope-/161036150846?)

So it was pretty bent .. but once i got it straight again i have an 100 Mhz scope  :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: vk6zgo on July 25, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
On Ebay Aust,Imperial Foxonline,& Industrial Surplus Australia make a habit of asking ludicrous prices for Oscilloscopes.

The former had a BWD 880 High Voltage 'scope for around $600 which is a reasonable price for a specialist instrument of that kind,but in their next ad they were asking $350 for a BWD 502 6MHz single channel thing,which is worth about $5.

The thinking seems to be: "They're both oscilloscopes,right?"
The unfortunate thing is that others see these prices & think these things are worth that much.

There's a HP 180A on at the moment with an opening price of $50 & no bids.

It is shown with both traces on,but apparently they "become dim" after a couple of hours.
Maybe worthwhile,as they are a nice instrument.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: [email protected] on July 25, 2013, 04:21:59 PM
There is a lot of surplus oscilloscopes in countries with a large electronics industry. If your country doesn't belong to that group, e.g. because the local electronics industry died before transistors became really popular, you are out of luck.

Locally we have high prices, and it is actually a group of surplus vendors who are very busy trying to keep it that way.  They have started to always put a bid in when a brand instrument comes up on ebay locally. A bid high enough to annoy/distract normal buyers. They regularly end up as the winning bidders, but they don't seem to mind as long as they keep market prices high. They'll list them on their own websites with a surcharge for "calibration", warranty, etc. or use them for parts.

I have no idea how long they will able to do that and if they actually lose a lot of money or if it works for them.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on July 25, 2013, 04:40:50 PM
 :rant: Ever since EEVBLOG#498 some assholes bought up $50 scopes on Ebay! :rant:
 :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ElectroIrradiator on July 25, 2013, 05:25:47 PM
I have no idea how long they will able to do that and if they actually lose a lot of money or if it works for them.

I suspect that won't last, mostly a question of educating the potential buyers about the alternatives. You can get a brand new Rigol for about $350, which means that for most people the real value of a decades old 'low' BW analog scope is far below this figure. However, this does require beginners know about the other options.

As for more recent medium cost models, then I don't understand what is going on. When the resellers ask more for a 10+ year old DSO than a comparable new model cost, then something is up. Yet I would assume potential buyers for these models would be sufficiently well educated to know about their options.

For instance I have been keeping an eye out for a better scope for my home lab for a bit, just to consider my options. While I could occasionally use 4-500MHz bandwidth, maybe from an old scope, I also have to consider that the list price of a brand new 200MHz DSOX-3024A is about $4700. This comes with a 5 year warranty, says 'Agilent' on the front and is VAT/tax deductible. That makes paying several thousand for a 10 year old dual channel instrument, perhaps even without a proper VAT receipt, a complete no-go. ::)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: TerminalJack505 on July 25, 2013, 06:06:22 PM
The US may soon have a glut of used test equipment on auction sites.  The budget sequestration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_sequestration_in_2013) is going to cut pretty hard into the defense portion of the budget. 

This will likely ripple down to defense contractors and they will need to tighten their belts.  Some of these guys have been on the gravy train for so long that they likely have excess equipment (not to mention employees) that they'll send packing.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: tesla on July 25, 2013, 09:34:05 PM
  $50 Oscilloscope ... yeah right ... maybe if I was born in Australia or in the USA ... :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: lewis on July 25, 2013, 09:40:17 PM
But Dave, I can't get an Infiniium 90000 for £3.50 in the UK, what are you talking about?

Jousting sticks? Whaddya want with jousting sticks darl? They don't come up much...
Title: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ivan747 on July 25, 2013, 09:42:45 PM
Dave! What have you done! Sellers won't sell $50 scopes anymore :P |O
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: hobbs on July 25, 2013, 10:51:31 PM
Dim screens are one of the banes of used CRT equipment.  I don't bid on units where the screen photos are obviously taken in the dark, like that first Hitachi.

I've spent probably $35k on eBay in the last few years, averaging about 3 cents on the dollar compared with list price.   (My faves are my Tek 11801C and TDS694C.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: vk6zgo on July 25, 2013, 11:10:35 PM
Dim screens are one of the banes of used CRT equipment.  I don't bid on units where the screen photos are obviously taken in the dark, like that first Hitachi.

I've spent probably $35k on eBay in the last few years, averaging about 3 cents on the dollar compared with list price.   (My faves are my Tek 11801C and TDS694C.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Dim screens are a problem.--The brightest CRTs I've seen are on the BWD 'scopes,but they have other problems,like triggering faults on the older 500 series.

The HP 180A which I saw on EBay Aust apparently has a fault,causing the display to dim after a few hours.
That is not normally due to a low emission CRT,so it might be worthwhile.
I've seen a few Spectrum Analyser plugins for the 180A over the years,but mainframes are rare.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ptricks on July 25, 2013, 11:18:01 PM
The US may soon have a glut of used test equipment on auction sites.  The budget sequestration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_sequestration_in_2013) is going to cut pretty hard into the defense portion of the budget. 

This will likely ripple down to defense contractors and they will need to tighten their belts.  Some of these guys have been on the gravy train for so long that they likely have excess equipment (not to mention employees) that they'll send packing.

The problem with defense related stuff is that they have changed the sales method. In the past you could go to the actual military base and it was auctioned off that day, you paid cash and took stuff home. Now the process is done by govliquidation.com and they often don't  allow bids below $50, also frequented by the large used equipment resellers that can afford to spend $200 on a chance you make $500 .  Really a shame they changed the way sales are done.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on July 25, 2013, 11:22:52 PM
The problem with defense related stuff is that they have changed the sales method. In the past you could go to the actual military base and it was auctioned off that day, you paid cash and took stuff home. Now the process is done by govliquidation.com and they often don't  allow bids below $50, also frequented by the large used equipment resellers that can afford to spend $200 on a chance you make $500 .  Really a shame they changed the way sales are done.

Pallets of test gear are very rare here in Oz, but I've heard a dime a dozen in the US if you know were to look.
There were some at auction a few months back (I got the rubidium and counter + keithley stuff), mostly broken and "unserviceable" gear that were going for $8K a pallet. Crazy. I was willing to go as high as $900 on one of them, and I thought that was a real stretch.
Clearly a couple of surplus dealers out bidding themselves and hoping they's be able to fix a couple and flip a profit.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ptricks on July 25, 2013, 11:40:28 PM
Pallets of test gear are very rare here in Oz, but I've heard a dime a dozen in the US if you know were to look.
There were some at auction a few months back (I got the rubidium and counter + keithley stuff), mostly broken and "unserviceable" gear that were going for $8K a pallet. Crazy. I was willing to go as high as $900 on one of them, and I thought that was a real stretch.
Clearly a couple of surplus dealers out bidding themselves and hoping they's be able to fix a couple and flip a profit.
They often have some good deals but the dealers make it hard to get deals unless it is something they already have too much in stock.
Right now they have several  lots with Tektronix 2465B, either 1 or 2 in the lot category A or A4 so working or like new.  As well as stacks of HP power supplies. 


16 fluke mdl27 meter in the case with HV probe, stickers still on the meter.
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=6372504&convertTo=USD (http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=6372504&convertTo=USD)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: nickoe on July 25, 2013, 11:46:56 PM
One just need to go to their local ham club, and there is very likely some oldies that want to you one.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Sigmoid on July 26, 2013, 12:30:08 AM
Currently I live in the US, but I grew up in Hungary (for the geographically challenged, that is Eastern Europe).
I can completely relate to the people complaining about low supply in certain areas of the world... However, that doesn't mean you're out of luck.

On another note, I wonder what kind of maintenance these analog scopes need. I guess it might be beneficial to sometimes take them to be cleaned out and calibrated... What kind of shops can one trust with such a job? Usually how much does that cost? Can it be worth it, compared to buying a new scope for $400? :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: KJDS on July 26, 2013, 01:03:34 AM
I've still got a few tested hitachi V-552 50MHz scopes and a pile of kikusui 100MHz that I've not yet tested. I'm happy to sell to EEVBlog readers at £60 for the Hitachis and £90 for the Kikusuis once I've tested those. Shipping at cost, which is likely to be reasonable in the UK and to Western Europe, but not so further afield.

I still prefer analog scopes for measuring analog stuff.


Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: steve30 on July 26, 2013, 01:51:28 AM
I got my Hitachi V222 for about £70 on ebay. Could probably have got something better if I'd tried, but that's still pretty good.

Do I get the impression that Dave doesn't like Telequipment?  :-BROKE
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: einstein on July 26, 2013, 02:04:37 AM
Yes, it's possible. I have on old RFT service-oszillograf EO 1/71 ex DDR thing. Don't know the bandwith of it. I even have the manual, and the 'garantieurkunde' (the warranty)). It's dated to may 1964, it's three times older than i am, and if you turn it on it still works but have not been able to measure a signal with it, bought a few month's ago almost for free (cost mee 2 local beers). On modern scopes there's a knob for the vertical and one for the horizontal, but on this old one there are many knobs and i don't know there function.

So if there's anyone who also have such old  equipment and knows how to control it, let me know!

And another question, why is it so difficult to find digital scopes on auction sites (for more than 50€); or am i using the wrong search terms?

(and my 10th message here on the forum! something special)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: iva on July 26, 2013, 02:51:05 AM
but I grew up in Hungary (for the geographically challenged, that is Eastern Europe).
:-DD :-DD
You made my afternoon!
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: grego on July 26, 2013, 03:36:26 AM
Pallets of test gear are very rare here in Oz, but I've heard a dime a dozen in the US if you know were to look.
There were some at auction a few months back (I got the rubidium and counter + keithley stuff), mostly broken and "unserviceable" gear that were going for $8K a pallet. Crazy. I was willing to go as high as $900 on one of them, and I thought that was a real stretch.
Clearly a couple of surplus dealers out bidding themselves and hoping they's be able to fix a couple and flip a profit.
They often have some good deals but the dealers make it hard to get deals unless it is something they already have too much in stock.
Right now they have several  lots with Tektronix 2465B, either 1 or 2 in the lot category A or A4 so working or like new.  As well as stacks of HP power supplies. 


16 fluke mdl27 meter in the case with HV probe, stickers still on the meter.
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=6372504&convertTo=USD (http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=6372504&convertTo=USD)

How did I not know about this website?  This is fantastic!  Thanks!
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: synapsis on July 26, 2013, 03:45:33 AM
but I grew up in Hungary (for the geographically challenged, that is Eastern Europe).
:-DD :-DD
You made my afternoon!

Yup... that's someone who has lived in the US. ;)

I have a friend who goes through govliquidation, and the bids get pretty insane on a lot of things. Around here, the stuff you can get a good deal on is anything that takes a forklift to move (including forklifts.) Most people don't have forklifts, and the people that do usually just take it for scrap value. Anything electronic commands a premium simply because it plugs in. Occasionally you can buy a toolbox for toolbox prices, but it'll be full of tools.

With the economy the way it is, a good place to find stuff is businesses going bankrupt (like where I got laid off from last November.) I picked up some Galil and Siemens automation equipment, eBayed it, and bought a Keithley 2000 with it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: SeanB on July 26, 2013, 03:50:23 AM
There is a nice Telequipment scope at the scrappie I go to, slightly used, slightly burnt and slightly busted. I got 2 Mullard ECF80's out of it though for free.......
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: mtdoc on July 26, 2013, 04:55:22 AM
In the US, it's worth checking the local Goodwill thrift stores regularly. I recently got a perfectly good BK 40Mhz scope for $10 ;D

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: TerminalJack505 on July 26, 2013, 05:14:44 AM
Pallets of test gear are very rare here in Oz, but I've heard a dime a dozen in the US if you know were to look.
There were some at auction a few months back (I got the rubidium and counter + keithley stuff), mostly broken and "unserviceable" gear that were going for $8K a pallet. Crazy. I was willing to go as high as $900 on one of them, and I thought that was a real stretch.
Clearly a couple of surplus dealers out bidding themselves and hoping they's be able to fix a couple and flip a profit.
They often have some good deals but the dealers make it hard to get deals unless it is something they already have too much in stock.
Right now they have several  lots with Tektronix 2465B, either 1 or 2 in the lot category A or A4 so working or like new.  As well as stacks of HP power supplies. 


16 fluke mdl27 meter in the case with HV probe, stickers still on the meter.
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=6372504&convertTo=USD (http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=6372504&convertTo=USD)

Dang.  Looks like it's going to be a buyer's market for Fluke 27s and Tek 2465Bs.  I counted over 100 Fluke 27s and 30 2465Bs on that site.  I'm sure a person won't be able to get one of those scopes for $50 but $200 might be possible.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Computeruser on July 26, 2013, 05:33:08 AM
In a slightly higher cost bracket, I picked up a 7704a Tektronix mainframe with 4 working plugins for about $450 on eBay. That machine worked well for me for nearly 10 years before I took it out of service to get a new digital scope. I was able to get cheap plugins on eBay to extend the usefulness of the machine.

I recall talking to the vendor on the phone and he guaranteed me a working machine or it could be returned. I never had to do that.

... C
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on July 26, 2013, 06:13:02 AM
but I grew up in Hungary (for the geographically challenged, that is Eastern Europe).
:-DD :-DD
You made my afternoon!

If Hungary invaded and conquered Turkey, would the resulting country be named "Full" ?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: c4757p on July 26, 2013, 06:16:00 AM
*groan*

:-DD :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: KJDS on July 26, 2013, 06:42:31 AM
but I grew up in Hungary (for the geographically challenged, that is Eastern Europe).
:-DD :-DD
You made my afternoon!

If Hungary invaded and conquered Turkey, would the resulting country be named "Full" ?

There's a town in England called Sandwich. Nearby is a village called Ham
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: dfmischler on July 26, 2013, 06:53:03 AM
There's a town in England called Sandwich. Nearby is a village called Ham

So I take it that means there is a Ham-Sandwich road?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: c4757p on July 26, 2013, 06:55:23 AM
Much more in line with typical British humo(u)r to just leave Ham and Sandwich on the map and leave drawing the connection to the individual. Ham-Sandwich Road is how we'd do it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: timelessbeing on July 26, 2013, 07:03:33 AM
I picked up two CROs and two variable power supplies from a local ham radio club member for $10 (a formality really). He was just thrilled to have the extra space in his garage, and pass the equipment on to someone who will make good use of it. :)

Bonus: you get to talk to friendly old-timers with great stories. He showed me his computer radio rig which he claimed could pick up "DC to daylight", and he talks to the ISS with it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: lewis on July 26, 2013, 08:14:30 AM
Big foot Italy kicked little Sicily,
right in the middle of the Mediterranean sea.
Along came the Germans,
they were rather Hungary,
so they had a slice of Turkey
dipped in Greece.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: dentaku on July 26, 2013, 08:40:10 AM
I recently e-mailed someone near me who inherited 3 oscilloscopes and advertised them with "make me an offer".
I asked him what brand/models they where and he said he'd e-mail me back but so far I haven't heard from him. I'm going to e-mail him for the third time tomorrow (I don't want to be annoying) or maybe call because he gave me his number. His father had other stuff so maybe I can find a function generator or something.

Anyway... I was wondering ???

What's the simplest way to test out an old oscilloscope if you're somewhere with no equipment to test it with?

Can I simply plug an audio cable into my MP3 player and connect the tip and sleeve of the connector to the probes and see if it can at least work at audio frequencies?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: elliott on July 26, 2013, 09:33:54 AM
What's the simplest way to test out an old oscilloscope if you're somewhere with no equipment to test it with?
There is a probe calibration signal on the front of every reasonably modern scope. It is usually a 0.5V 1Khz square wave. You don't even need a probe, just run a wire to it from the center of the BNC.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: dentaku on July 26, 2013, 10:29:32 AM
That's good to know. I'll have to check it out.

even knowing that... Will probing the tip and sleeve of a TRS connector plugged into an MP3 player work though?

What's the simplest way to test out an old oscilloscope if you're somewhere with no equipment to test it with?
There is a probe calibration signal on the front of every reasonably modern scope. It is usually a 0.5V 1Khz square wave. You don't even need a probe, just run a wire to it from the center of the BNC.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: c4757p on July 26, 2013, 10:35:26 AM
Sure, it'll work, but it's not a stable signal, so it'll do jack shit for testing the trigger, which you should do.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: elliott on July 26, 2013, 11:12:13 AM
I've never tried it, but maybe you could get a file that is a constant tone that would make it output a sine wave. Though, the MP3 player probably does some processing to the output that would make this method unreliable.

I know there are signal generator applications for smart phones, I've tried them and they can work decently, but I don't think I would use one to test an oscilloscope. I had to find a sweet spot with my phone to get a clean signal, without a trusted oscilloscope you're not going to know where that sweet spot is.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: edy on July 26, 2013, 01:22:36 PM
It's neat that they have $50 oscilloscopes on eBay. However, when you look at the shipping cost + any duties/taxes and "brokeage" fees, it adds up to a heck of a lot!!! While a first appealing, it quickly loses the charm...

Take for example the $49 oscilloscope shown here:

eBay auction: #360688783474

I live in Canada, and the item is shipping from Florida. The shipping is about $60 + about $15 for duties and taxes, maybe some other "surprise" fees when delivered at the door (couriers often pad on extra "handling" or "brokerage" fees). Seems a bit high to me, but maybe the weight is making it so expensive. So we are guaranteeing about $120-130 minimum cost, for a used, no warranty product.

Compare for example to this:

eBay auction: #300846840560

This is a brand new Rigol 50Mhz (versus the 20 Mhz item above) digital storage scope, small footprint, software capable, and miles ahead technologically with 3 year warranty, for about $360 (which includes shipping).

I would definitely consider these <$100 analog oscilloscopes from eBay if they were TRULY under $100 *WITH* shipping. But when you compare it to a modern Rigol with memory storage, output capabilities, and so many other options it is hard to waste the $100 on the old scope, which has no guarantees. If I were to gamble then I'd need these old used scopes to either be really really CHEAP on eBay, or somewhere local at a shop in town where I could turn it on, play with it and see it functioning to know everything is checked out.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: calin on July 26, 2013, 02:57:15 PM
I wold not get extremely excited about govliquidation  - I watched the prices things go. Yes the final sale price it is lower than on  ebay . But read the small print .. 10% Buyer Premium + Taxes + Pickup & Shipping. I know because I bid on a Tek 2465 a while ago .. did not got it but for shipping from Oklahoma to Phoenix  i was quoted 195$. The thing ended up being sold for something  close to 250$ , now add in top of that 10% plus 8% in taxes... and ... 

For shipping they work only with few companies, and these are really expensive - 200$ for one scope delivered is insane.

Now if you are in the area or have a good friend around there and you can pick it up .. then yup .. good deal. Otherwise .. I won't be very excited.

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: jonwilhelmjr on July 26, 2013, 03:13:07 PM
I would like to start off by saying thank you Dave for all your great advice on electronics. I can almost say I have watched every one of your videos. Every one of your videos has in some way helped me through college thus far. With that being said leads me to my question. I will be graduating soon and won't have access to all the nice new test equipment. I am really excited to use this soon to be acquired EE degree but I lack the equipment. I am sure you have answered this thousands of times, possibly did a video over it. So with out further a due, how should I evaluate my decision making process. I understand price is always a factor but what about brand, specs, or even age. So looking at brand, I feel like I am buying my first car again. What is the best bang for my buck as they say? I am trying to compare all the bells and whistles to the bottom of the barrel equipment. Then how about the age of the equipment. Are the oscilloscopes like wine in the fact one year is better than another. I personally would prefer a digital scope over an analog. (Forgive me, I am young and for all those analog fans out there Dave has a video comparing them) With that being said when it comes done to it if the price is right, I could settle for an analog scope. Would any one like to shine some light on this matter. WHAT SHOULD A YOUNGSTER LIKE MY SELF GET FOR HIS FIRST SCOPE? Or just in general for test equipment, cheap eBay special or brand new from the company, top of the line or a backyard wounder made out of a cardboard box, analog or digital, for digital new or old, and lastly loaded with features to learn or bare minimum enough to call it a scope. I greatly appreciate any advise you have for me and at the very least to keep me at bay, a link or video will work too. Thank you in advance for your support.

Robotics extraordinaire,
Jon
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Psi on July 26, 2013, 03:27:43 PM
There's quite an art to shaping your auction auto-search entries so they pickup the good deals.

Stuff that goes cheap is often in the wrong category or labeled/misspelled and falls through the cracks of other peoples auto-searches.
Something that often happens when it's listed by a non-engineer.

Crafting your auto-searches to pickup this sort of stuff is a good idea.

For example, you might have two auto-searches setup for osilloscope and osciloscope to catch any oscilloscopes listed with incorrect spelling.

If the search system includes the main auction text you can search for quoted strings that indicate the person may not know what the item is or does.
eg,
"no idea what it"   (works for "is" or "does")
"cleared out the"  (works for lots of things, garage, shed, house etc.


It's pretty easy to end up with 100's of auto-search entries.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: [email protected] on July 26, 2013, 03:44:20 PM
What's the simplest way to test out an old oscilloscope if you're somewhere with no equipment to test it with?

Dave made a video about this. You have to dig through his older stuff.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ve7xen on July 26, 2013, 03:54:02 PM
I live in Canada
Yeah, Canada is kind of a crappy market for used test equipment. If you live near the border (most of us do), there will be receiving companies in the US-side border town that will receive packages for you for a nominal fee. It's time consuming to cross the border and back and the customs people will sometimes give you a hard time, but the shipping will be way cheaper, no brokerage, and usually you won't pay GST/HST if the item is < $200. I don't normally bother unless it's a smoking deal or something I really want and can't afford new, but if your budget is slim or you prefer to spend time than money, it's a worthwhile option. I use a company called Hagen's of Blaine. I've also used a company called TSB Shipping in Point Roberts. Costs < $10 for pretty much any package if you pick it up within a week.

Quote
and the item is shipping from Florida. The shipping is about $60 + about $15 for duties and taxes, maybe some other "surprise" fees when delivered at the door (couriers often pad on extra "handling" or "brokerage" fees). Seems a bit high to me, but maybe the weight is making it so expensive. So we are guaranteeing about $120-130 minimum cost, for a used, no warranty product.
Yep. I pretty much will only buy things if they ship by USPS. Canada Post on this side doesn't normally charge me GST (they do sometimes) and there are no hidden fees, but many sellers won't ship that way for some reason, so I don't buy. UPS and FedEx are both exorbitant in their brokerage fees (it's like $19.45 on a $40 item at UPS, for example), or you can use their 'express' service where it's included.

Final option is to self-broker. I've never done this, but apparently it is possible to 'intercept' your package at the UPS/FedEx entry point and take it to Canada Customs yourself to clear it, then return it to UPS for final delivery. Or something, I'm not clear on this, but might save you if you want to import stuff.

Really though, patience. It's not a great place to try to hunt for 'good' deals, but cheap scopes and decent multimeters and other common stuff comes up often enough that if you wait, you'll find something in-country for a reasonable-ish price. Probably more than $50, but you should be able to do under $100 delivered.

And yes, of course paying 3-4x as much money gets you a much better scope. It's 3-4x as much. If you can afford that at all, even at a stretch, do that instead, it's a much better option. But for the high school student living on a 10h a week minimum wage job, there are options.

e.g. Someone scored this, quite nice actually, 4CH, 150MHz Tek 2445 scope for $120 delivered: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Tektronix-2445-150-MHz-Oscilloscope-e-w-Manual-/190868924967?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2c70acaa27 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Tektronix-2445-150-MHz-Oscilloscope-e-w-Manual-/190868924967?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2c70acaa27) . But this is not common, you need to be patient and committed.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on July 26, 2013, 03:54:59 PM
http://www.watchcount.com/ (http://www.watchcount.com/)

You can use that site to view the "accepted offer" on buy it now items, auctions ending soon with zero bids and also you can type in a term and it will search for every misspelled variant of it.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&campid=5336448908&toolid=10001&customid=&mpre=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ebay.com%2f(oscillpscope%252c%2boscilliscope%252c%2boscilloskope%252c%2boscilllscope%252c%2bosciiloscope%252c%2boscilloscoope%252c%2boscillloscope%252c%2boscillloscope%252c%2bosciilloscope%252c%2bosscilloscope%252c%2boscillocsope%252c%2boscillsocope%252c%2bosiclloscope%252c%2bocsilloscope%252c%2boscilloscop%252c%2boscilloscoe%252c%2boscilloscpe%252c%2boscillosope%252c%2boscillocope%252c%2boscillscope%252c%2bosciloscope%252c%2bosciloscope%252c%2bosilloscope%252c%2bocilloscope) (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&campid=5336448908&toolid=10001&customid=&mpre=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ebay.com%2f(oscillpscope%252c%2boscilliscope%252c%2boscilloskope%252c%2boscilllscope%252c%2bosciiloscope%252c%2boscilloscoope%252c%2boscillloscope%252c%2boscillloscope%252c%2bosciilloscope%252c%2bosscilloscope%252c%2boscillocsope%252c%2boscillsocope%252c%2bosiclloscope%252c%2bocsilloscope%252c%2boscilloscop%252c%2boscilloscoe%252c%2boscilloscpe%252c%2boscillosope%252c%2boscillocope%252c%2boscillscope%252c%2bosciloscope%252c%2bosciloscope%252c%2bosilloscope%252c%2bocilloscope))

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: k2k on July 26, 2013, 05:03:01 PM
I would just like to add, I picked up a Tek 468 for 220 on ebay Australia. I think it was a bargain...  it is huge and cumbersome but I love it..
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: vk6zgo on July 26, 2013, 05:48:12 PM
Being over in West Oz, some of the eBay Aust deals are not so great after you add postage/freight.

Another thing is that some of the best sounding deals are "pickup only",though I'm told many people forget to delete that when  posting their ad,so it is still worthwhile asking if they will ship it.

I usually end up buying stuff at Hamfests.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Herr R aus B on July 26, 2013, 05:50:04 PM
Great - I simply laughed my ass off! I think, these rants are the absolute essence of the entire eevblog stuff. Love it! You get another photo calendar next year - that's for sure :-)

Regards

Axel

PS: I just checked it out for Germany - Phillips, Hameg, of course Voltcraft (cheap stuff) and even one Tektroinix dual channel, 50MHz went off for under 50€ :-) That's some 70 AUD - unfortunately also in Germany this kinda stuff is rather expensive (compared to the U.S. at least - but also you have to take into account our generally higher living costs and avarage salaries)

PPS: More rants plz! :-)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on July 26, 2013, 09:05:05 PM
PPS: More rants plz! :-)

I have a new segment coming soon that will do just that.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: wilfred on July 26, 2013, 09:44:08 PM
Australia Melbourne Ebay Tek 434 $1 start  Have a go.  (Its not mine!!)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tektronix-434-Oscilloscope-/330968624400?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item4d0f446d10 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tektronix-434-Oscilloscope-/330968624400?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item4d0f446d10)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: tinhead on July 26, 2013, 10:00:26 PM
PPS: More rants plz! :-)

I have a new segment coming soon that will do just that.

yeah, good idea. There are much more than enought things to got a rant.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: dentaku on July 26, 2013, 10:13:07 PM
OK. That's logical. I guess it would only be a partial test so I guess it would at least be good for testing if it's not dead.

Plus I know it won't do anything bad to my MP3 player because I just watched this video http://www.eevblog.com/2012/05/18/eevblog-279-how-not-to-blow-up-your-oscilloscope/ (http://www.eevblog.com/2012/05/18/eevblog-279-how-not-to-blow-up-your-oscilloscope/) :)

I'm looking for an oscilloscope for working with audio (oscillators/filters and all things synth related) so I won't need anything terribly high frequency which means any old analog oscilloscope will probably do as long as it works and triggers correctly.

Sure, it'll work, but it's not a stable signal, so it'll do jack shit for testing the trigger, which you should do.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Sigmoid on July 26, 2013, 11:36:37 PM
but I grew up in Hungary (for the geographically challenged, that is Eastern Europe).
:-DD :-DD
You made my afternoon!

If Hungary invaded and conquered Turkey, would the resulting country be named "Full" ?

...aaactually, Turkey did invade Hungary in the XVI. century...  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Herr R aus B on July 26, 2013, 11:45:15 PM
PPS: More rants plz! :-)

I have a new segment coming soon that will do just that.

Sorry for being off topic - but also planning for tutorials on effective ranting? ;-)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Terabyte2007 on July 26, 2013, 11:50:41 PM
Dave, I agree with you. I found this gem a few years back for about 50.00 bucks. A Tektronix 2246 100MHz 4 channel like new! I also got a box of probes and several brand new unopened Tektronix probes.

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on July 26, 2013, 11:53:25 PM
Dave, I agree with you. I found this gem a few years back for about 50.00 bucks. A Tektronix 2246 100MHz 4 channel like new! I also got a box of probes and several brand new unopened Tektronix probes.

Wow, you got that on ebay at that price?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Terabyte2007 on July 26, 2013, 11:59:11 PM
Sure did! And it was local pickup too! I love this scope! I may buy a new one soon, but I will keep this one in service...
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: senso on July 27, 2013, 12:01:57 AM
Great - I simply laughed my ass off! I think, these rants are the absolute essence of the entire eevblog stuff. Love it! You get another photo calendar next year - that's for sure :-)

Regards

Axel

PS: I just checked it out for Germany - Phillips, Hameg, of course Voltcraft (cheap stuff) and even one Tektroinix dual channel, 50MHz went off for under 50€ :-) That's some 70 AUD - unfortunately also in Germany this kinda stuff is rather expensive (compared to the U.S. at least - but also you have to take into account our generally higher living costs and avarage salaries)

PPS: More rants plz! :-)

There are so many great deals in ebay.de, but for some reason almost no one wants to ship to anywhere outside Germany, and they always say they don't ship overseas, didn't know that Portugal was overseas, I don't  really understand what is the problem to ship the items :(
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on July 27, 2013, 12:10:31 AM
Sure did! And it was local pickup too!

Local pickup only? Those usually go a lot less than ones that offer postage.
You could have instantly flipped that for 3-4 times that price.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Terabyte2007 on July 27, 2013, 12:18:24 AM
Sure did! And it was local pickup too!

Local pickup only? Those usually go a lot less than ones that offer postage.
You could have instantly flipped that for 3-4 times that price.

I know, but the functionality at that price was far to cool to part with! I looked up the probes, they cost more than I paid for the scope! The deals are there, you just have to spend a little time to look.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Sigmoid on July 27, 2013, 12:22:05 AM
There are so many great deals in ebay.de, but for some reason almost no one wants to ship to anywhere outside Germany, and they always say they don't ship overseas, didn't know that Portugal was overseas, I don't  really understand what is the problem to ship the items :(

Germans are like that. It's not simply they don't want to ship abroad, they don't want to ship, PERIOD! Also, they don't use Paypal. If you're checking ebay.de, be prepared to get in the car, go to Germany, pick the thing up, and pay in cash!

By the way, I'd be more than interested in a blog episode about choosing a cost-effective function generator for n00bs... I mean having a scope without a good function generator is borderline meaningless. XD
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: staxquad on July 27, 2013, 12:40:38 AM
PPS: More rants plz! :-)

I have a new segment coming soon that will do just that.

New segment will be called Whinging Wednesdays?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Herr R aus B on July 27, 2013, 12:41:28 AM

Germans are like that. It's not simply they don't want to ship abroad, they don't want to ship, PERIOD! Also, they don't use Paypal. If you're checking ebay.de, be prepared to get in the car, go to Germany, pick the thing up, and pay in cash!

I really love these global statements... All Germans wear leather trousers, dance "Schuhplattler", drink beer - and of course, they don't like to ship items... You bet!

 :(

I do ship items - as long as the other side pays for it. I also use PayPal whenever I can. Maybe I am not german...

At least that's for sure: I am not hungarian - saves me from dancing czardas all day long...

Oh man...
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Neganur on July 27, 2013, 12:55:19 AM
Germans are like that. It's not simply they don't want to ship abroad, they don't want to ship, PERIOD! Also, they don't use Paypal. If you're checking ebay.de, be prepared to get in the car, go to Germany, pick the thing up, and pay in cash!

Paypal had a poor reputation in Germany. Also, the majority that does not accept paypal is either tired of paying all kinds of fees on stuff they sell or prefer cash/bank transfer simply due to the buyer/seller's protection. There are strict rules regarding how the seller has to ship items to be eligible for seller's protection (tracking number for example) and tracking is not available to quite a few countries.

On top of that, shipping abroad is really expensive once an item surpasses 5-10 kg and some are just really tired of the buyer moaning about shipping.

Also, some German fellas on ebay (who sell oscilloscopes and the like) are older folks who don't like the idea of having yet another online account since the online banking service in Germany works well enough for them. Others embrace paypal.

I've had no problems with German sellers so far, sometimes I've even asked if I may send them an email with a DHL postage pdf that will be sufficient for mailing things abroad, even though the auction was restricted as "shipping only to Germany". It's usually just the default way the auction form suggests it for them and never even imagined that somebody from abroad could be interested.

There is a lot of fraud and shady stuff too, and some may simply refuse to take any risk at all.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ElectroIrradiator on July 27, 2013, 01:09:02 AM
Germans are like that. It's not simply they don't want to ship abroad, they don't want to ship, PERIOD! Also, they don't use Paypal. If you're checking ebay.de, be prepared to get in the car, go to Germany, pick the thing up, and pay in cash!

Germans rarely use PayPal for private transactions within their country, and neither does the Danes. The reason is that both countries have perfectly good and free(!) national wire transfer services in place, to which absolutely everybody is connected. In Denmark this is mandated by law. Here you *have* to be able to both send and receive funds online using this system, and it is against the law to dictate otherwise.

This makes PayPal a superfluous leech in any personal, economic transaction. It is also the reason why you see all the funny verbal legwork on eBay.de, trying to get clueless people to pay for something, PayPal's services, which is essentially free, Überweisung. Additionally, as a seller you frequently earn less when selling stuff out of the country, as you have to take PayPal's cut into consideration when receiving the payment.

That said, quite a few sellers on ebay.de do sell out of the country.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: iva on July 27, 2013, 01:19:39 AM
I've been living in Germany for more than 10 years, bought a lot of stuff on ebay.de since then and I had only a few cases when I needed to "überweisen" via the bank because the seller didn't accept paypal.

Here shipping for small/medium sized packages is not that expensive and the normal post works like a charm (at least comparing to the Italian or US ones), in 2 working days you usually get the stuff, when buying on amazon it's almost pointless to get "prime".

So I've more than happy about buying stuff on ebay in Germany.

The only "shady" episode I can remember was with my Rigol scope, ebay called me over to see if I had been scammed by the guy as apparently he disappeared without leaving a trace and had lots of stuff pending - luckily I got my scope and it worked OK.
... but this happened on ebay UK  ::)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: alm on July 27, 2013, 01:25:10 AM
Germans rarely use PayPal for private transactions within their country, and neither does the Danes. The reason is that both countries have perfectly good and free(!) national wire transfer services in place, to which absolutely everybody is connected.
In this system, do the buyers have any recourse if the seller decides not to ship anything or something not meeting the description (eg. a brick instead of a scope)?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Aldobrandi on July 27, 2013, 01:30:17 AM
I thought I would chime in with my one time experience with govliquidations.com
I got a fully functional tek 475 (they must have been selling over 20 of these on the same event) for $60. The catch is yes shipping was about $70. Still as far as I'm concerned $130 is a decent price for a good ole' 200MHz scope :) I'd say it's worth having a look and subscribe for their newsletters. They had a bunch of Frequency standards, calibrators and interesting bits of equipment that were sold on their own (not in a lot with 30 other pieces) that would have made someone willing to spend $200 happy.
Just my 2 cents.

Edit: if you happen to be lucky enough to live near Lockbourne, OH, a sizable portion of the stuff govliquidations sells comes from there, so no shipping cost :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Herr R aus B on July 27, 2013, 01:33:48 AM
Germans rarely use PayPal for private transactions within their country, and neither does the Danes. The reason is that both countries

---- 8< ----

consideration when receiving the payment.


Tak før forklaringen og hilsen til Danmark :-)

I looked up the current pricing of DHL (= German Post) - given the fact, that such an old scope might be considered being heavy, I looked up the range from 20 - 31,5kg. 40€ within EU, 55€ for european countries out of the EU, 87€ for say western coutnries out of the EU, 121€ to the rest of the world.

Now - would you be willing to pay this shipping? Honestly, I wouldn't be. Neither would I rely on other parcel services and in my case I strictly refuse sending or receiving items via UPS whenever possible. Anyways - the are not significantly cheaper compared to DHL if it is about shiping to locations out of Germany - if they offer intl. shipping at all.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ElectroIrradiator on July 27, 2013, 02:12:40 AM
In this system, do the buyers have any recourse if the seller decides not to ship anything or something not meeting the description (eg. a brick instead of a scope)?

Transactions can be reversed in case of fraud or mistakes/errors. Not sure how frequently this happens, or how easy it is, as I have yet had the need to do so. Actually, come to think of it, I have once had an erroneous deposit backed out of an account, though I didn't have to do anything myself to fix the problem.

Occasionally people do actually try to abuse the system the way you describe, sometimes systematically, yet that must be considered a fairly stupid thing to do. Both parties in a transaction are uniquely identified as particular persons, and transactions are traceable going very far back in time. So if people cheat, they will get caught.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Sigmoid on July 27, 2013, 02:25:38 AM

Germans are like that. It's not simply they don't want to ship abroad, they don't want to ship, PERIOD! Also, they don't use Paypal. If you're checking ebay.de, be prepared to get in the car, go to Germany, pick the thing up, and pay in cash!

I really love these global statements... All Germans wear leather trousers, dance "Schuhplattler", drink beer - and of course, they don't like to ship items... You bet!

Sorry man, no harm intended at all. Please take that comment with tongue in cheek - in fact half my family is German and I absolutely love Germany.

That was my general experience with ebay.de. I know it's not all-encompassing, but it's quite prevalent - of course I'm aware of the reasons, like the good banking system for the lack of paypal option, but that doesn't help you if you live abroad.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Herr R aus B on July 27, 2013, 03:58:59 AM
Sorry man, no harm intended at all. Please take that comment with tongue in cheek - in fact half my family is German [...]

OK  ;D

Hey - why don't you just order the stuff to their place and then ask them to bring it on the next visit?  ;) That's exactly what I did with all the stuff from Element14 and adafruit. I let it ship to friends in Boston and took it home with me when returning from my world trip. Well, OK - I had to handle german customs, which sucks, but what the heck - all went very well and I saved a lot of money - especially on the raspberry pis I got... 10 bucks on each... such things are ridiculously expensive here - especially when taking into account, that the pi comes from the UK and the UK is in the EU and just one flight hour from here...
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: dentaku on July 27, 2013, 05:40:19 AM
Gordon Mah Ung http://www.maximumpc.com/tags/gordon_mah_ung (http://www.maximumpc.com/tags/gordon_mah_ung) at Maximum PC does his rant of the week at the end of their podcast every TWO weeks. (but it's still called rant of THE WEEK)

PPS: More rants plz! :-)

I have a new segment coming soon that will do just that.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: synapsis on July 27, 2013, 05:52:27 AM
Dave is like the Andy Rooney of EE with his rants.

For the non-Americans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on July 27, 2013, 07:04:13 AM
Dave is like the Andy Rooney of EE with his rants.

For the non-Americans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney)

And with better teeth.

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Herr R aus B on July 27, 2013, 07:07:41 AM
Dave is like the Andy Rooney of EE with his rants.

For the non-Americans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney)

I particularily like Dave`s rants because they help me extending my english in a way, that common english lessons wouldnt be suitable for :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: markce on July 27, 2013, 07:28:28 AM
From what i've seen, you will be glad to buy a good universal scope without any defects in EU for Eur 100 all inclusive, but without probes.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: synapsis on July 27, 2013, 07:40:08 AM
Dave is like the Andy Rooney of EE with his rants.

For the non-Americans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Rooney)

I particularily like Dave`s rants because they help me extending my english in a way, that common english lessons wouldnt be suitable for :)

The same reason I watched The Simpsons and Stromberg in German.  :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on July 27, 2013, 07:44:01 AM
Has anyone noticed that when you find an item cheap and no one has bid on it, after you bid on it someone that has (0) or (1) (either never purchased or purchased 1 item) puts in a high bid! I noticed that ebay now lets sellers bid on their own items ( you think number 0 or 1 might be them)!!  I see today alot of the scopes I was watching have gone up in price as more people are bidding on them! I wish I could find the ones that you guys are mentioning here. I have been watching for the great cheap deal for some time! Not good but great!
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: dfmischler on July 27, 2013, 08:16:48 AM
Has anyone noticed that when you find an item cheap and no one has bid on it, after you bid on it someone that has (0) or (1) (either never purchased or purchased 1 item) puts in a high bid! I noticed that ebay now lets sellers bid on their own items ( you think number 0 or 1 might be them)!!  I see today alot of the scopes I was watching have gone up in price as more people are bidding on them! I wish I could find the ones that you guys are mentioning here. I have been watching for the great cheap deal for some time! Not good but great!

If this is happening to you then you are not doing it right.  The best (aka only) way to win at ebay is to bid in the last few seconds of the auction.  It doesn't matter how you do this, whether you are sitting there waiting to put in your bid, or if you use sniping software.  But it works better than anything else.  If everyone sniped then it would become a silent auction where everyone gets one bid, instead of a bidding war where prices are sometimes raised to unreasonable levels due to excessive emotional commitment.

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ElectroIrradiator on July 27, 2013, 08:39:50 AM
From what i've seen, you will be glad to buy a good universal scope without any defects in EU for Eur 100 all inclusive, but without probes.

How much have you been searching? There are currently more than 1200 (twelve hundred) hits for 'oscilloscope -usb' on ebay.co.uk. Just the first page of hits has several candidate auctions, which all end within the next 24 hours.

 
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: markce on July 27, 2013, 08:44:16 AM
Quote
DON'T TELL ME THAT..
Yes I do, there are just not that many people selling a scope in good known condition close to you
for very little money. If they truly know the "like new" state, they want some serious money.
In all other cases, it's your gamble...
My personal experience: none of the 10 measurent devices, including scopes, I bough second hand were without defects.
Some of them are major and costly to fix or work around. None of them impressed me in demo situ.
This is not a market for starters.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: markce on July 27, 2013, 08:54:10 AM
Quote
How much have you been searching?
I'm in a small market (NL). Most UK sellers won't ship to EU countries, most German sellers only sell to Germany. For the wanted pieces, prices rapidly increase close to selling time. Look at actual selling prices, not current bidding.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ElectroIrradiator on July 27, 2013, 09:32:04 AM
I'm in a small market (NL). Most UK sellers won't ship to EU countries, most German sellers only sell to Germany. For the wanted pieces, prices rapidly increase close to selling time. Look at actual selling prices, not current bidding.

You said 'within the EU', not limiting yourself to the Netherlands. In Denmark the situation is superficially similar in that we don't have a single dominant auction site, which everybody uses. Here I'd expect I have to get off my rear and get in contact with the local radio amateurs, or use some of the other options mentioned previously in the thread. These personal methods also have the advantage of you being able to test and inspect the instrument, especially before any payment changes hands.

Finally, if a seller of an old ~20 MHz analog, dual trace scope in good working order asks more than 100 Euro or so, then he needs to be told about the existence of the Rigol DS1052E and similar DSO models, which are ~250 Euro new.

Or maybe that big company implosion some years ago down in Eindhoven sucked all the spare 'scopes in NL into an empty void? :D
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: edy on July 27, 2013, 10:59:50 AM
Thanks Dave for this excellent video.... It inspired me to look into some local options for buying oscilloscopes. Turns out you can get them for $100 and perhaps under if you bargain, without having to deal with shipping and waiting and wondering if it will work or not.

I will explain...

For those in Toronto area, options include Craigslist and Kijiji, as well as several good electronic surplus supply shops around town. I called up a few and searched those sites for local people selling stuff, and turned out quite a number of scopes (Hitachi, Tektronix) for $100 that are good condition and working and available to pick up and use immediately, no fuss no muss.

Best of all, no worries about getting damage in shipping, surprises with duty and brokerage "hostage" fees and you can play around with the gear to make sure it works right there! Beats eBay in that regard.

Oh... And some of the shops or people are willing to barter in exchange for perhaps other gear you may have laying around... Photo equipment, tools, bikes, etc. So it can be a fun trade.

I will definitely check out local listings and surplus shops to see what comes around, but I doubt I will bother with eBay unless something unbelievably cheap comes along which is probably too good to be true. Unfortunately anything even as cheap as $50 on eBay turns into $100+ with shipping so I am not better off. I would rather buy local, know what I'm getting and pick it up immediately.

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: senso on July 27, 2013, 12:27:30 PM
I didn't want to start a little war nor I want to hurt someone.
In some items I said I would gladly pay for all the shipping expenses(i would not even expect otherwise), but the sellers always said they only ship to Germany, and I understand their reasons and wish them all the luck, but at least now I have a friend in Germany, so it is no more a problem.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Sigmoid on July 27, 2013, 02:50:58 PM
How to use ebay, short version:

Many people blogged about this, there are youtube guides and tutorials, this is just the low-down.
Rule #1: Never bid before the end of the auction (end means the last few seconds).
Rule #2: Decide the MAXIMUM amount you are willing to pay for it, and put it in as the bid. Get a realistic picture of prices by viewing closed auctions.
You'll get the item for the maximum opposing bid + minimum increment. Say there is a scope listed for $19, and nobody has bid yet. You've researched and see that these often go around $70. It looks really good, and is hardly used, so you decide to go as far as $80 to get it. Last moment you enter a bid of $80, and at the same time, someone else enters a bid of $50.
You'll get the scope for $50 + minimum increment (say, for example, $55).
Rule #3: NEVER get caught up in a bidding contest with someone. One bid, with your maximum. That's it. If someone pays more for it, you didn't lose - you won by NOT wasting money. :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Kernel on July 27, 2013, 04:17:08 PM
Moving right along.
That Snap On Digital Oscilloscope for sale in Scoresby, Victoria (near me) - do you guys think it could be a simple fix? Cause I bet it would be an excellent scope in working order and I'd be over the moon if I got it for $50-$100 and only had to replace a transistor or capacitor or something. I'm just getting into Electronics and I am looking into getting my first scope.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: jancumps on July 27, 2013, 05:12:33 PM
Moving right along.
That Snap On Digital Oscilloscope for sale in Scoresby, Victoria (near me) - do you guys think it could be a simple fix? Cause I bet it would be an excellent scope in working order and I'd be over the moon if I got it for $50-$100 and only had to replace a transistor or capacitor or something. I'm just getting into Electronics and I am looking into getting my first scope.
if you are just getting into electronics, fixing a scope is not realistic. That' s an advanced exercise.
Buy a working one.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Kernel on July 27, 2013, 05:57:38 PM
Moving right along.
That Snap On Digital Oscilloscope for sale in Scoresby, Victoria (near me) - do you guys think it could be a simple fix? Cause I bet it would be an excellent scope in working order and I'd be over the moon if I got it for $50-$100 and only had to replace a transistor or capacitor or something. I'm just getting into Electronics and I am looking into getting my first scope.
if you are just getting into electronics, fixing a scope is not realistic. That' s an advanced exercise.
Buy a working one.
Okay.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: mzacharias on July 27, 2013, 09:34:25 PM
I bought a TEK 2246 mod A from a guy on eBay. Turned out he was local; bought a second more cosmetic challenged one also. Put the rougher one into service first - it lasted about 3 months sadly. But, I had the nicer one to put into service immediately. It's been OK so far (about a year), but there's always that 1-2 second delay between pressing the power switch and the fan coming on and the front panel waking up, during which time I sweat just a bit.

"Is is going to work?"

To me, Tektronix is just that way. Nice 'scopes, but they are like owning a Harley Davidson motorcycle. If you love them, if you can fix them, if you don't mind oil stains on your living room floor and the smell of carburetor cleaner, go for it.

Otherwise maybe just buy an older analog Kenwood or Kenwood-built B&K, that just works. (I'm sure this applies to Hitachi and some other pacific rim products as well.)

Still, I could  not help myself the other day. I won an eBay auction for a 465 with video sync option for 85.00 plus about 24.00 freight. Taking a bit of a risk, it was sold as, "for parts or repair" but the pictures revealed the front panel controls were WAY wrong to show a proper trace (showing B time base intensified, focus and position controls fully clockwise, etc).
I expect it probably works, but I don't know if I'm man enough to fix any really kinky problem it might have...

And the things are about 40 years old now, so there's all those cap problems and they aren't the easiest things physically to work on...

Starting to sweat again...

Edit  8-3-2013:

Open 5500uF C1542 in main power supply 15v source. Replaced it, now had functions work but still had blanking related problem. Actually could not turn intensity down to cutoff. Shorted 1uF at 150 volt (C1481) CRT bias circuit, hidden under the high voltage shield. Probably your Tek geeks have seen lots of these issues...

Older Tek scopes can be a little scary, for me anyway, but got a good working 465 with video sync option for 85.00. Not interested in a full re-cap of the power supply at this time - it's a big job, and I got other stuff to do...

I'm a happy guy at this point.  :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: jancumps on July 27, 2013, 09:47:33 PM
Moving right along.
That Snap On Digital Oscilloscope for sale in Scoresby, Victoria (near me) - do you guys think it could be a simple fix? Cause I bet it would be an excellent scope in working order and I'd be over the moon if I got it for $50-$100 and only had to replace a transistor or capacitor or something. I'm just getting into Electronics and I am looking into getting my first scope.
if you are just getting into electronics, fixing a scope is not realistic. That' s an advanced exercise.
Buy a working one.
Okay.

By the way, that Snap On is an automotive scope for car diagnosis. It's not for electronics use.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: markce on July 28, 2013, 08:55:58 AM
Ok, my point is: depends largely where you are located. For US, Dave might be right. With some effort and patience you will get one.
But, will it be a working one, also after e few month of increased experience? And can you service it (parts avalable)? In EU $ might be Eur. Markets are smaller, price very more. Tek is expensive and spare parts are not that easy as in US. Buy wisely, not just price.
I've still a Hameg 203 that I bought as a student, and keep because performance exceeds it's sales value. It's extremely reliable, but because many are sold in EU, prices are not that high. If everything fails (my tek2236) this will do the fault finding. Very good backup. All parts still available, no obvious weak points, pots wear out...
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: alm on July 28, 2013, 11:46:01 AM
But, will it be a working one, also after e few month of increased experience?
What's a few months if it's already been working for 30+ years? Why would parts that have survived for many years suddenly die? It just had a very thorough burn-in that removed all the weak parts.

And can you service it (parts avalable)? In EU $ might be Eur. Markets are smaller, price very more. Tek is expensive and spare parts are not that easy as in US. Buy wisely, not just price.
Many analog scopes largely use jellybean parts. ASICs are fairly rare. Full schematics and excellent service documentation are often available, especially for the popular models. Whole companies (eg. Qservice in Greece) have made a business out of providing replacement parts for old scopes. They're going to be much easier to service then any $300 Chinese scope if it dies after the warranty expires.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: wilfred on July 28, 2013, 01:26:30 PM
How to use ebay, short version:

Many people blogged about this, there are youtube guides and tutorials, this is just the low-down.
Rule #1: Never bid before the end of the auction (end means the last few seconds).
Rule #2: Decide the MAXIMUM amount you are willing to pay for it, and put it in as the bid. Get a realistic picture of prices by viewing closed auctions.
You'll get the item for the maximum opposing bid + minimum increment. Say there is a scope listed for $19, and nobody has bid yet. You've researched and see that these often go around $70. It looks really good, and is hardly used, so you decide to go as far as $80 to get it. Last moment you enter a bid of $80, and at the same time, someone else enters a bid of $50.
You'll get the scope for $50 + minimum increment (say, for example, $55).
Rule #3: NEVER get caught up in a bidding contest with someone. One bid, with your maximum. That's it. If someone pays more for it, you didn't lose - you won by NOT wasting money. :)

There is a lot of "folklore" about the best way to bid on Ebay. If you have a maximum that you are willing to pay then what is the difference if you make the bid 7 days before auction end or 7 seconds? 
As I see it there are two differences. First you commit needlessly early to an item and another may get listed that you prefer and now you will regret bidding early. Secondly you give others plenty of time to convince themselves that the item is more appealing and that they can pay more.

If the item is unlikely to go unnoticed and therefore there is no chance you'll get it for a bargain price then just bid your maximum as early as you care to. But don't bid nice round numbers. eg $10, bid 11.52. That gets you past the next nice round number past $10 ie $11 and also gets you past $11.50. That's my addition to the Ebay bidding "folklore". ;)

I definitely agree with rule #3 above. Set a maximum and NEVER EVER go above it in a bidding frenzy.

Dave hinted at another important aspect to bidding on Ebay. Patience, is paramount. Look at past sales and you will often see that there is no need to hurry and fixate on one item. With particular regard to old analogue scopes there is no particular value in brand snobbery. 
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: alm on July 28, 2013, 01:34:21 PM
Bidding early makes it more likely for other people to get into a bidding frenzy, even though they might originally have been willing to pay less than you were. If there are no bids, someone might assume that it will go for a fairly low price and place a low or reasonable offer. If there is already a bid, then people often keep increasing their bid until they're on top. If you bid on an item someone else was already bidding on, then you encourage them to increase their bid.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: wilfred on July 28, 2013, 02:40:23 PM
Bidding early makes it more likely for other people to get into a bidding frenzy, even though they might originally have been willing to pay less than you were. If there are no bids, someone might assume that it will go for a fairly low price and place a low or reasonable offer. If there is already a bid, then people often keep increasing their bid until they're on top. If you bid on an item someone else was already bidding on, then you encourage them to increase their bid.

You've summed up my thoughts exactly. At what point though does it all become pointless guesswork? Yes if there are bids already you often see someone, for reasons I can't fathom, chiping away with ever increasing bids just to ensure they are on top. Until someone else bids higher. They often stop at nice round numbers so you can get an edge by not doing the same.

Does the presence of a bid encourage more people to bid than it discourages those who think an item with a bid is not going to be snapped up as a bargain? Who knows.

At the end of the auction after everyone has bid the item gets sold to the highest bidder regardless of the bidding shenanigans that has gone on. The last second sniper will still always win the item IF they bid more than you were prepared to. If you lose the bidding because you tried to be clever and wound up having bid less than you were willing to pay then you only have yourself to blame.

If you can't (or won't) outbid someone then the only other way to get a bargain is to outwait them by patiently sticking to your maximum and trying again and again. I'm pretty sure Dave was alluding to that with his use of stored searches.

Asking if an item can be posted even though it says "pickup only" is always worth trying because some sellers can't be bothered to deal with the Ebay postage calculator. Me for example. :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: markce on July 28, 2013, 09:21:08 PM
@alm
Quote
But, will it be a working one, also after e few month of increased experience?
As a starter, you will only notice the most obvious defects. After becoming more familiar with the scope,
more complex defects might be noticed. Too late by then to cancel the sale.
Examples I've seen smaller BW, trigger problems, noise, faulty cleaned contacts, temporary fixes, calibration.
Thanks for the pointer to Greece, had seen it but not yet looked into their offerings.

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on July 28, 2013, 09:48:45 PM
If you can't (or won't) outbid someone then the only other way to get a bargain is to outwait them by patiently sticking to your maximum and trying again and again. I'm pretty sure Dave was alluding to that with his use of stored searches.

email search alerts are way to generally ensure that you never miss the item you are after (I would never have got my 2225 otherwise). But you can also set up alerts to get "buy it now" bargains were the seller has no idea of what it's worth. I've nabbed a few cheap fluke multimeters this way. They go very quick of course, so without an email alert you will never catch it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ElectroIrradiator on July 28, 2013, 10:31:14 PM
I would like to add a bit to my previous posts in this thread. In particular this is a bit of advice for people looking for used test gear, and who are *not* living in one of the major industrial countries of the world (US, AU, UK, DE, RU, CN, etc.)

Here is what usually happens in Denmark, and I strongly suspect this applies to many other small, industrialized countries:

If you had told me you have been unable to find a nicely working old analog scope for $50 or so, both for sale online and located within this country, then I would tend to believe you. The reason is that people in the know, who are the ones selling the gear you want, tend not to sell it in Denmark! The people you are looking for usually do so either via ebay.co.uk, or ebay.de. Alternatively they sell or give stuff away via local, private channels (clubs, friends, etc.)

The online local market for used electronics is very small here, and tend to be dominated by amateur 'tradesmen', who have seen the TV shows on how to find and flip Expensive Stuff(TM) for a quick buck. So if a very inexpensive yet 'good' piece of gear comes up for sale on an auction site, they tend to be snapped up by these amateur money makers. After a while the buyer realizes their mistake/goes broke/finds a new job, and all the gear they picked up for cheap gets crushed and recycled, thus wasting it.

The original seller, who wanted an enthusiastic newcomer to have a nice piece of gear, has thus wasted an opportunity to help someone. On the other hand he will also know that the real price for, say, and old scope is very low. So actually selling it out of the country may cost a ton in shipping and not be worth the effort of properly packaging it.

Thus, once a piece of gear becomes sufficiently inexpensive or too bulky, people tend to just store it, and wait for an opportunity to give it away/sell it for a token amount.

Of course people do also like to know who they give stuff away to, and they will perhaps ask for a  token 'payment', just to help ensure the recipient won't just turn around and try to sell the item for a quick profit.

So tl;dr: The good yet inexpensive stuff is here, it just doesn't appear online for sale very frequently. May take a bit of effort to find and talk your way into. But sitting in front of the telly hitting buttons may not get you very far here...
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Rasz on July 29, 2013, 01:05:13 AM
How to use ebay, short version:

Many people blogged about this, there are youtube guides and tutorials, this is just the low-down.
Rule #1: Never bid before the end of the auction (end means the last few seconds).
Rule #2: Decide the MAXIMUM amount you are willing to pay for it, and put it in as the bid. Get a realistic picture of prices by viewing closed auctions.
You'll get the item for the maximum opposing bid + minimum increment. Say there is a scope listed for $19, and nobody has bid yet. You've researched and see that these often go around $70. It looks really good, and is hardly used, so you decide to go as far as $80 to get it. Last moment you enter a bid of $80, and at the same time, someone else enters a bid of $50.
You'll get the scope for $50 + minimum increment (say, for example, $55).
Rule #3: NEVER get caught up in a bidding contest with someone. One bid, with your maximum. That's it. If someone pays more for it, you didn't lose - you won by NOT wasting money. :)


http://youtu.be/pqzcCfUglws?t=59m31s (http://youtu.be/pqzcCfUglws?t=59m31s)

http://youtu.be/pqzcCfUglws?t=1h7m13s (http://youtu.be/pqzcCfUglws?t=1h7m13s)

Whole video is worth watching :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Sigmoid on July 29, 2013, 02:47:27 AM
You've summed up my thoughts exactly. At what point though does it all become pointless guesswork? Yes if there are bids already you often see someone, for reasons I can't fathom, chiping away with ever increasing bids just to ensure they are on top. Until someone else bids higher. They often stop at nice round numbers so you can get an edge by not doing the same.

Does the presence of a bid encourage more people to bid than it discourages those who think an item with a bid is not going to be snapped up as a bargain? Who knows.

At the end of the auction after everyone has bid the item gets sold to the highest bidder regardless of the bidding shenanigans that has gone on. The last second sniper will still always win the item IF they bid more than you were prepared to. If you lose the bidding because you tried to be clever and wound up having bid less than you were willing to pay then you only have yourself to blame.
It's all psychology. If you see an item without bids, that's where you want to keep it. You can be assured that there are others watching it, and what your goal is to have a last second showdown, everyone puts in their maximums, and the one with the highest wins.
Because in that case, the item will likely go for a realistic price.

If you put in a bid early, there is guaranteed to be a blockhead around who'll just keep bidding until he reaches your maximum and comes out on top. The way he's thinking is "well this guy put in $80, it sure as hell is worth $85 for me". The end of this is that the item is bid up to a ridiculous price, where it's quite far from a bargain, and you sure as hell don't want it for that price.

List out the auctions ending today. The ones you're interested in are the ones that are, at this moment, well below your pre-decided bidding price. Then, bid that price on them at the last moment. This way you're protecting yourself from your own endocrine system (which WILL drive you into doing something stupid if you let it), and also minimizing the damage from the stupidity of others.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on July 29, 2013, 02:54:40 PM
Well my "$50" scope is on the way.  There were no bids on it even in the last 5 minutes, so I waited 45 seconds before the end and threw out $30 as a bid and 4 other bids came in with the auction closing at $29 with $17 shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tenma-oscilloscope-/300937689970 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tenma-oscilloscope-/300937689970)

I contacted Newark support because they sell this brand and got them to e-mail me a manual with schematic.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Kernel on July 30, 2013, 08:53:07 PM
Moving right along.
That Snap On Digital Oscilloscope for sale in Scoresby, Victoria (near me) - do you guys think it could be a simple fix? Cause I bet it would be an excellent scope in working order and I'd be over the moon if I got it for $50-$100 and only had to replace a transistor or capacitor or something. I'm just getting into Electronics and I am looking into getting my first scope.
if you are just getting into electronics, fixing a scope is not realistic. That' s an advanced exercise.
Buy a working one.
Okay.

By the way, that Snap On is an automotive scope for car diagnosis. It's not for electronics use.
What's the difference?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on July 31, 2013, 02:15:16 AM
Moving right along.
That Snap On Digital Oscilloscope for sale in Scoresby, Victoria (near me) - do you guys think it could be a simple fix? Cause I bet it would be an excellent scope in working order and I'd be over the moon if I got it for $50-$100 and only had to replace a transistor or capacitor or something. I'm just getting into Electronics and I am looking into getting my first scope.
if you are just getting into electronics, fixing a scope is not realistic. That' s an advanced exercise.
Buy a working one.
Okay.

By the way, that Snap On is an automotive scope for car diagnosis. It's not for electronics use.
What's the difference?

I'm guessing it is probably not very sensitive on the low end. I.E. it is designed for 12V signals.

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: ivan747 on July 31, 2013, 04:28:59 AM
PPS: More rants plz! :-)

I have a new segment coming soon that will do just that.

Oh please... call it Whining Wednesday
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on August 01, 2013, 09:58:07 PM
Oh please... call it Whining Wednesday

Nope, it's the EEVblab

BTW, I just got this for $19:
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BQkXiANCQAA6zdR.jpg:large)
Can't get a good working scope for under $50 my arse!  :P
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on August 02, 2013, 01:25:39 AM
Dave, the Goldstar scope you pointed out in the video that you said nobody would be looking for closed at 35$ plus 25$ shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goldstar-OS-9020A-20-MHz-Oscilloscope-/300937319076 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goldstar-OS-9020A-20-MHz-Oscilloscope-/300937319076)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: jancumps on August 02, 2013, 01:35:32 AM
(I found one by searching for 'osciloscope')
 O0
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: madires on August 02, 2013, 01:38:28 AM
BTW, I just got this for $19:

Can't get a good working scope for under $50 my arse!  :P

Nice bargain!

All HM205s sold the last few weeks at ebay.de:
- HM205-3  EUR 188,00
- HM 205-2  EUR 69,00
- broken HM205-3  EUR 40,50
- HM205-3  EUR 215,00
- HM205-3 EUR 156,00
- HM205-3 with Graphic Printer HD-148  EUR 151,55
- HM205  EUR 89,00
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: chickenHeadKnob on August 02, 2013, 12:07:51 PM

@dave- EEVBLOG

That Hameg looks nice and clean except for the grungy CAL button. Any idea why that button is so dirty?  That kind of detail would worry me until I had an innocent explanation.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on August 02, 2013, 12:22:41 PM
That Hameg looks nice and clean except for the grungy CAL button. Any idea why that button is so dirty?  That kind of detail would worry me until I had an innocent explanation.

It is not a button it is the probe cal output hooks. They are fine.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: chickenHeadKnob on August 02, 2013, 01:05:33 PM
That Hameg looks nice and clean except for the grungy CAL button. Any idea why that button is so dirty?  That kind of detail would worry me until I had an innocent explanation.

It is not a button it is the probe cal output hooks. They are fine.

 :-[ D'Oh!, derp derp. Now that you point it it out I can clearly see the hooks, what an optical illusion. What they say about too much auto-erotic activity must be true.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: poida_pie on August 02, 2013, 08:51:54 PM
I just sold my Tek 454 CRO on AUS ebay tonight at 7:40pm. Some of you may have seen my post
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-aus-ebay-tek-434-oscilloscope/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-aus-ebay-tek-434-oscilloscope/)

There was a lot of interest. There were 40 watchers, and approx 400 views. I want to note clearly to all here there were 20 bids, starting from $1. It sold at $202 to the person who bid approximately 12 seconds before the auction finished.
This person only bid once. He lives in Canberra and so can use my offer of free freight to that location.

Here in AUS not many good CROs are for sale at prices we call cheap. Currently there are maybe only 20 used CROs on ebay here in AUS. Most have starting prices from $200-300 and up to $600.
Only one is an auction starting from $1. That is the 7000 series Tek mainframe CRO.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tektronix-2-CH-60-MHz-Oscilloscope-Trolley-7403N-7A18-7B53N-Melbourne-/121151580709?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item1c35326a25 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tektronix-2-CH-60-MHz-Oscilloscope-Trolley-7403N-7A18-7B53N-Melbourne-/121151580709?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item1c35326a25)

Postage for a CRO type item from the USA is about $160. So add that to any US ebay listing. That is why we do not see many cheap deals here. It costs to get stuff here. And there is not a lot to choose from so the few that are offered for sale are bid up by the many who have maybe $200 to spend.

Now it's time to offer my Tek 2245A for sale. See the buy/sell forum for details.





Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: poida_pie on August 02, 2013, 09:02:19 PM
be like Dave, get your own for $166 delivered in AUS

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hameg-205-3-Oscilloscope-/221236465926?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3382b89106 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hameg-205-3-Oscilloscope-/221236465926?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3382b89106)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on August 03, 2013, 12:25:25 AM
be like Dave, get your own for $166 delivered in AUS
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hameg-205-3-Oscilloscope-/221236465926?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3382b89106 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hameg-205-3-Oscilloscope-/221236465926?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3382b89106)

I'll be giving mine away for free.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: poida_pie on August 03, 2013, 09:49:40 AM
Giving away the Hameg?
Awesome!




Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Halfdead on August 04, 2013, 08:55:52 AM
After watching the video I bought a Hitachi V-422 "tested and working" for 65$ shipped.


So it shows up and appears to be working but now the voltage divider dials are a bit wonky and distort the reading.


Ugh
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 05, 2013, 06:28:52 AM
Dave needs to get a commission on the difference in past sold items verses the prices they seem to be getting since his video here in the states!
Don
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Psi on August 05, 2013, 07:16:20 AM
So it shows up and appears to be working but now the voltage divider dials are a bit wonky and distort the reading.
They probably just need a clean, as in the Hameg video.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 05, 2013, 07:28:13 AM
Looking at one that says turns on and off every few seconds when turned on! Any thoughts as to what this might be and how hard to fix.
Thanks
 
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on August 05, 2013, 07:44:29 AM
Looking at one that says turns on and off every few seconds when turned on! Any thoughts as to what this might be and how hard to fix.
Thanks

Do you have a link?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Psi on August 05, 2013, 07:51:41 AM
Could be the high voltage on the CRT or flyback arcing over every so often due to insulation breakdown.
That would cause the screen to disappear for a sec and could also cause the power supply to restart from the excess load.

Faulty flyback/triplers is quite common. Sometimes it's just dirt on the high voltage traces (fallen in from the grill on top). Other times the flyback/tripler breaks inside and needs to be replaced.

Usually you hear a "crack" every time it arcs which is dead giveaway for a high voltage issue.

If the issue isn't high voltage then it's probably a power-supply problem. bad caps, shorted rails etc.. and the supply keeps doing a overtemp/overcurrent shutdown and restart.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 05, 2013, 07:52:48 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380687735456?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/380687735456?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649)

This is the link - thanks
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Psi on August 05, 2013, 08:04:05 AM
At least being a tek you should be able to get the circuit diagrams pretty easily.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 05, 2013, 01:56:28 PM
Thanks for the response but it looks like someone else wanted it more then me! Maybe next time! Can't find anything working or not going off cheap! Wanted one to learn on! I'll keep watching.
Have a nice week ahead.
Don
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Halfdead on August 06, 2013, 01:18:28 AM
So it shows up and appears to be working but now the voltage divider dials are a bit wonky and distort the reading.
They probably just need a clean, as in the Hameg video.


This is what I figured as well so I removed the case and bottom and front panels to have a look around. It seems easy enough to clean them but I don't have any proper cleaners for this type of stuff.

I was having a quick browse on amazon found this (http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Electronics-Cleaner-Aerosol/dp/B008NAPY78), is this a good option in the US or is there something else?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on August 06, 2013, 04:43:00 AM
So it shows up and appears to be working but now the voltage divider dials are a bit wonky and distort the reading.
They probably just need a clean, as in the Hameg video.


This is what I figured as well so I removed the case and bottom and front panels to have a look around. It seems easy enough to clean them but I don't have any proper cleaners for this type of stuff.

I was having a quick browse on amazon found this (http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Electronics-Cleaner-Aerosol/dp/B008NAPY78), is this a good option in the US or is there something else?

How about this?
http://www.henkelna.com/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797898604545 (http://www.henkelna.com/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797898604545)

Your cheapest option would likely be this:  http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05103-Quick-Electronic-Cleaner/dp/B000BXOGNI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1375728241&sr=8-4&keywords=crc+contact+cleaner (http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05103-Quick-Electronic-Cleaner/dp/B000BXOGNI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1375728241&sr=8-4&keywords=crc+contact+cleaner)

But it is listed as VOC which means it is extremely flammable, but you can get it at auto parts stores.

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on August 06, 2013, 05:50:41 PM
Cheap scope alert!

20Mhz JDR scope currently at 99 cents, ends 8/9 (Same as my Tenma 72-720 scope)

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-cheap-jdr-20mhz-scope-(us)-ends-80913 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-cheap-jdr-20mhz-scope-(us)-ends-80913)

40Mhz Pintek scope currently at 99 cents auction ends 8/6 afternoon US

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-cheap-pintek-40mhz-scope-(us)-auction-ends-8613-evening-no-bids-yet/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-cheap-pintek-40mhz-scope-(us)-auction-ends-8613-evening-no-bids-yet/)

Another 40Mhz Pintek ending 8/6 afternoon US

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Pintek-40MHz-Dual-Channel-Portable-Analog-Oscilloscope-Model-PS-405-/281145426207?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item417592c11f (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Pintek-40MHz-Dual-Channel-Portable-Analog-Oscilloscope-Model-PS-405-/281145426207?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item417592c11f)

2 BK 1522 20MHz scopes $50 each buy it now or best offer.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-2-bk-1522-scopes-$50-each-buy-it-now/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-2-bk-1522-scopes-$50-each-buy-it-now/)

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on August 07, 2013, 09:07:52 AM
Both of those Pintek 40mhz scopes above are still at 99 cents. The auction is closing in about 45 minutes. I'd rather see them go to an EEVBlog member who wants a scope than someone outside of our gang.

They look just like the BK scopes of the same era.

Edit: Closing in 10 minutes

5 Minutes. I just hope one of us wins one or more of these.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on August 07, 2013, 09:53:01 AM
That first scope sold for $5.50! Hope it was one of you!

Second also sold for $5.50!

2 40MHZ scopes for $5.50 each! Holy crap!

The same person bought both scopes!
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on August 07, 2013, 02:58:27 PM
Please tell me one of the forum members bought one.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: mtdoc on August 07, 2013, 04:01:32 PM
In addition to ebay, it's worth checking local thrift stores.  I recently scored a fully funcitional 40MHz BK scope at the local Goodwill store for $9.99 - and no shipping!  >:D
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: hosier on August 08, 2013, 01:53:15 AM
I ended up with a great deal this last weekend:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LeCroy-9310L-Digital-Oscilloscope-In-good-Working-Condition-/141025535522? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/LeCroy-9310L-Digital-Oscilloscope-In-good-Working-Condition-/141025535522?)

Its a LeCroy 9310L with 300 MHz bandwidth, 100 MSa/s, and 1M points/channel with loads more features than the DSO Quad I was using previously...
Even better, I didn't have to pay shipping as we lived close enough to each other to arrange a pick-up.
As far as I can tell, everything works perfectly (except for maybe a couple knobs that seem to act a little weird, but maybe i'm just not used to them yet)
I was initially planning on getting and old lower bandwidth analog oscilloscope, but I found this and it seemed a much better deal.

The seller tells me the scope came from Commodore International ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_International (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_International) ), bought by his brother at auction when the company when bankrupt ~1994. The most recent calibration sticker is from 1998.
Here is a picture of an 8MHz "square" wave from the DSO Quad: http://i.imgur.com/rdG4ysJ.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/rdG4ysJ.jpg)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Sigmoid on August 08, 2013, 04:28:11 AM
I've seen some 100Mhz HP 1741A's around for around $100... :)
Like this for example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151093209940 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151093209940)

I wonder, how good / reliable / repairable are these? I'm a bit worried that 100Mhz ones may be finickier than the cheapo 20Mhz scopes, but it would sure come in handy for microcontroller work. :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on August 09, 2013, 02:16:33 AM
My cheap scope has a calibration procedure in the manual. When the probes arrive today I might go through it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on August 10, 2013, 06:28:38 AM
The JDR 2000 scope that was a clone of my Tenma scope closed at $20.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: jvdb on August 10, 2013, 09:42:30 AM
What is a reasonable amount to pay for a working Tek 2232? Is this a decent beginner scope?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: poida_pie on August 10, 2013, 10:48:00 AM
I would not choose a Tek 2232 as a beginner scope. They seem to be expensive compared with other non-storage Tek scopes.
if this is the first and only scope you are buying, I would suggest a Rigol or other DSO and a cheap 20 MHz CRT scope
for the same kind of money.
That way you have good storage capability from the DSO and good analog display from the cheapie CRT.

If you already have a decent DSO (eg Rigol DS2072 or somesuch) and want an analog CRT based scope, maybe choose
a good, proven to be working Hitachi, Hameg, Tek, GW, local USA hobby type brand scope offered for sale in your city.
Bandwidth does not matter, you will see what you need to see.
If it does matter then maybe you need to ask a clearer question.

The cost of postage or freight can double the cost of a scope nowadays.
Tek models I like are 465 and 475 if restored and working well by someone good. Maybe the 2236 as well.




Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: poida_pie on August 10, 2013, 11:00:55 AM
In other news, the Tek 2245A I sold on ebay here in AUS went for $410. I offered free postage/freight to Mel/Syd/Canberra metro locations. About 50 watchers, 470 views.
The auction winner bid only once, 6 seconds before the end of the auction. There were 23 bids.
Again the winner bid only once, 12 seconds before the end when I sold the Tek 434 a week ago.

I think if you want to win the ebay auction you need to be decisive.

This is a surprise to me, I did not think I'd get $410.
ebay link for this item
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tektronix-2245A-Oscilloscope-/330977568374 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tektronix-2245A-Oscilloscope-/330977568374)

These posts relating to ebay sales of mine are to show how deep the demand is for a decent Tek CRO here in AUS.
I think there is a chance to make some money by bringing a few tonnes of Tek CROs over here in a shipping container and selling them one by one.
a short container cost from Los Angeles to Melbourne is about $2,400. You could pack a lot of scopes in a 20 foot container.
Plus trucking, plus packing the container, buying at US auctions, etc., etc.



Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: jvdb on August 10, 2013, 11:14:30 AM
The cost of postage or freight can double the cost of a scope nowadays.

I asked specifically about the 2232 because it's one of the few listed locally (no shipping), and I could probably get for under $100. If it weren't significantly less expensive than a Rigol DS1052E, I would not even consider it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: poida_pie on August 10, 2013, 06:37:03 PM
Well it is good for $100 if it's working. I would see all channels work well, triggering well on all different sources. Test the storage function, etc.

 There is a bit of scratching of heads in the yahoo tekscopes group when someone
says their 22xx scope power supply is dodgy and can you all please help. They use switch mode PS and can be a bastard to debug. They can help but their forte is the earlier models with linear PS designs.

If you want to keep it for a good while, maybe consider replacing electrolytic caps where recommended by the results of a search at tekscopes group.
Anyway, that's my thoughts on the matter.


Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: s_lannan on August 10, 2013, 11:54:58 PM
Curiously I have been watching some oscilloscope auctions as of late. Just saw a tek 2245A go for $410! Also just read that other people saw it...

Only a year ago I got a tek 2465B shipped from the states for MUCH less than that. Nothing was ambiguous about its condition or working order either.

I'd say do yourself a favor and buy a step down transformer if you want to buy 2nd hand test equipment (most have 120/240 switch anyway).

I'm starting to see a theme on ebay with this stuff, allow me to give an example of "the dreamers club"
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121156702465 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121156702465)

Cheers.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 12, 2013, 01:41:32 PM
There seem to be a lot of brokers or stores out there bidding on theses! I bid on 4 of them today and at least 2 of them were purchased by the same person! I guess I will have to wait until some of the brokers who are buying these run out of money!!!!
I know- fat chance, been trying for several months now and will continue!! I just wanted one to learn on. What are some of the uses most of you are using them for? Are there any good learning videos out there on using these?
Thanks and have a nice week ahead.
Don
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: madires on August 12, 2013, 09:01:01 PM
What are some of the uses most of you are using them for? Are there any good learning videos out there on using these?

There's a nice introduction on youtube:
 NJARC Oscilloscope School a.k.a. "Scopes For Dopes" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKMrzTGxLQ#ws)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: JoannaK on August 13, 2013, 12:10:48 PM
I think I may have found something to consider. These are not on Ebay , but avaiable at this country (so delivery is closer to 20€ and not 100 like overseas) . These are open for few days so price may increase.

Comments, opinions (I think I'll get just one.. not yet decided which one?).


- 2*25Mhz Teklab 50eur (+delivery) .. Looks a bit better,

- HP54602B (200eur) .. Working, looks ok. Kinda strange beast 150mHz badwidth 2+2 channels, smallish memory and low (20MSPS?) sample speed.

Ans then there is
- Lecroy lc574al ... (opens 400€) ... Seriously, I think it there must be some kind of caveat here?..
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 13, 2013, 02:03:12 PM
madires:
Thanks for the link. I will have to sit and watch this maybe this weekend.
Have a nice week.
Don
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Halfdead on August 18, 2013, 03:48:43 AM
So it shows up and appears to be working but now the voltage divider dials are a bit wonky and distort the reading.
They probably just need a clean, as in the Hameg video.


This is what I figured as well so I removed the case and bottom and front panels to have a look around. It seems easy enough to clean them but I don't have any proper cleaners for this type of stuff.

I was having a quick browse on amazon found this (http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Electronics-Cleaner-Aerosol/dp/B008NAPY78), is this a good option in the US or is there something else?

How about this?
http://www.henkelna.com/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797898604545 (http://www.henkelna.com/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797898604545)

Your cheapest option would likely be this:  http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05103-Quick-Electronic-Cleaner/dp/B000BXOGNI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1375728241&sr=8-4&keywords=crc+contact+cleaner (http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05103-Quick-Electronic-Cleaner/dp/B000BXOGNI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1375728241&sr=8-4&keywords=crc+contact+cleaner)

But it is listed as VOC which means it is extremely flammable, but you can get it at auto parts stores.

I finally got the expensive cleaner from amazon.com in, tried to get in there with the buttons and move em around while spraying a bit.

A little improvement but it's still pretty dodgy. I guess I'll try another scope...
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 18, 2013, 11:19:28 AM
My wife went on ebay and bought me a Tektronix 465 Dual Channel 100Mhz.
What probes should I purchase? I am just going to use it to learn and as a hobby?
Thanks
     
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: dfmischler on August 18, 2013, 11:34:23 AM
My wife went on ebay and bought me a Tektronix 465 Dual Channel 100Mhz.
What probes should I purchase? I am just going to use it to learn and as a hobby?

The cheap ebay 100 MHz probes are plenty good enough to start.  Sighted for as low as $10 per pair delivered.

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: c4757p on August 18, 2013, 11:44:56 AM
Yeah, those aren't bad probes IMHO. I currently have a pair of these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/220577731111). The cables aren't good - I've had them for about a year and a half now, and the conductors are beginning to be intermittent now. But everything else is great. Nice and flexible  ::) with a good feel, and they are thin and nimble and easy to maneuver around a board. Just don't expect them to be heirlooms :P

I actually have a full set (all four channels) of Tek P6137 probes, and unless I have a reason to need to trust the probes a bit more, I usually reach for my Wun Hung Lo's. (It takes so much force to plug in the Teks that I have to hold my scope still with my other hand... and the ground leads are not convenient.)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: PaulAm on August 18, 2013, 12:46:07 PM
See if you can find a pair of p6065a x10 probes.  They'll have the readout pin so the 465 will be able to light up the correct light on the attenuator.  Sometimes you can find them pretty cheap.

I've probably spent more on probes than on oscilloscopes though.

Be aware that the usable bandwidth with a x1 probe is not much more than 1 MHz or so.  There's an incredible amount of engineering that goes into them; they're a lot more than a piece of coax with a needle point on the end.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 18, 2013, 01:44:25 PM
Thanks to everyone that responded.
I will go to ebay and see what is too be had. I guess any 100mhz probe will work considering your answers.
Thanks again.
Don
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: edavid on August 18, 2013, 02:35:15 PM
See if you can find a pair of p6065a x10 probes.  They'll have the readout pin so the 465 will be able to light up the correct light on the attenuator.  Sometimes you can find them pretty cheap.

They are only 75MHz probes, so not the best choice for a 465.  Oops!

Quote
Be aware that the usable bandwidth with a x1 probe is not much more than 1 MHz or so.  There's an incredible amount of engineering that goes into them; they're a lot more than a piece of coax with a needle point on the end.

That's pessimistic... Tek P6028 is 17MHz, P6101 is 15MHz...
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: alm on August 18, 2013, 11:13:40 PM
From a 25 Ohm source that doesn't mind ~60 pF of capacitance on its output.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Stonent on August 19, 2013, 02:15:41 PM
Speaking of the $10 100MHz Ebay probes... Is it normal for probes to induct waveforms?  I found a week or so ago that when I passed the probe tip over a CPU a waveform appeared on the scope. Also got a fairly nice square wave by sticking the tip inside an inductor (that doesn't surprise me as much as the CPU)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: KJDS on August 19, 2013, 05:42:44 PM
Speaking of the $10 100MHz Ebay probes... Is it normal for probes to induct waveforms?  I found a week or so ago that when I passed the probe tip over a CPU a waveform appeared on the scope. Also got a fairly nice square wave by sticking the tip inside an inductor (that doesn't surprise me as much as the CPU)

That's very normal. The scope has a 1Mohm input impedance with a longish antenna hanging off the end.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 21, 2013, 10:43:20 AM
These are the ones I bought! Hope they work.
Thanks to everyone that answered.
Don

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230803653667?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/230803653667?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Sigmoid on August 22, 2013, 01:31:27 AM
Ans then there is
- Lecroy lc574al ... (opens 400€) ... Seriously, I think it there must be some kind of caveat here?..

I'm a bit confused about these old, raster CRT digital scopes. I'm a computer engineer, and I'm quite used to digital equipment older than 5 years being synonymous with landfill. These old Lecroys seem to be ages old, in both effective years and in steps of technological advancement. And yet they command ridiculously high prices on eBay.
Are they worth anything? From what I gather, old DSOs are outclassed and outperformed even by the lowest end new ones in sampling rate, memory depth, and pretty much every other conceivable aspect - not to mention the obsolescence of the interfaces they use (floppy disks, lol, might as well be magnetic tape spools).
Is there any reason beside hype that anyone would pay close to $1000 for an ancient raster CRT digital Lecroy?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: marshallh on August 22, 2013, 04:00:58 AM
Ans then there is
- Lecroy lc574al ... (opens 400€) ... Seriously, I think it there must be some kind of caveat here?..

I'm a bit confused about these old, raster CRT digital scopes. I'm a computer engineer, and I'm quite used to digital equipment older than 5 years being synonymous with landfill. These old Lecroys seem to be ages old, in both effective years and in steps of technological advancement. And yet they command ridiculously high prices on eBay.
Are they worth anything? From what I gather, old DSOs are outclassed and outperformed even by the lowest end new ones in sampling rate, memory depth, and pretty much every other conceivable aspect - not to mention the obsolescence of the interfaces they use (floppy disks, lol, might as well be magnetic tape spools).
Is there any reason beside hype that anyone would pay close to $1000 for an ancient raster CRT digital Lecroy?

I would gladly pay $1k for one of the higher end 93xx series.
They may be a bit long in the tooth, but
1. Huge input bandwidth, you can take advantage of RIS
2. 50ohm input termination (for some reason the chinese scopes omit this entirely)
3. No freezing/crashing
4. No overclocked ADCs
And if you pay $1k and put in some effort, you will get a much more capable and versatile scope than whatever chinese flavor of the month is most popular.
Also you might laugh, but $10 got me a USB flppy drive and pack of  new 3.5" disks. So that ones pretty much not a problem.

Disclaimer: I have a 1ghz 9374C
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: PaulAm on August 22, 2013, 04:19:00 AM
Those probes should be fine.

I stand by what I said about the p6065a probes.  From the 1973 Tek catalog:

The P6065 is a miniature passive probe with precise 10X attenuation for use with the Tektronix 465 Oscilloscope. When used with the 465 Oscilloscope, the bandwidth will be 100 MHz. When compensated to other 20-24 pf input capacitance instruments the bandwidth will be at least 75 MHz.

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 24, 2013, 01:58:26 PM
OK the 465 scope arrived. Tried to get something on the screen. New probes and did get some kind of square trace. Vertical lines are very weak. Buttons are very sticky. One time I get some thing and work the nobs so as to work the contacts, then nothing, then something. The square trace has many lines working their way up to the horizontal one. I know the thing needs to have the contact switches cleaned. At least, can someone tell me what and how to clean the switches and rotary switches? That would be a big help. I have wanted one of these for some time, only used one in electronics class a few times years ago. Any help anyone can give will be greatly appreciated. I don't want to open this up blindly.
Thanks and have a nice day.
Don
 
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: rf-loop on August 25, 2013, 07:41:05 PM
You can find lot of information for 465.
But please, follow only these guys who know what they do.
This is one example.

Cleaning the Volts/Div Attenuator Switch Contacts in Tektronix 4XX Oscilloscopes (http://fullnet.com/~tomg/tekclean.htm)

This is not propably best but just try find this kind of info.
Also use original Tek 465 service manual.
(many things depend also what version 465 you have.)

Never ever put any kind of lubricating (oil) liquids to these contacts becouse after then all collected dust stay there and inhibit good contact)  I mean contact surfaces. All contacs there are serviceable. (mostly after service/overhaul  they work as new)

Pure Isopropyl is just right. (also some other can use. Never ever try ethanol or methanol or some other "destroy" liquids for any use with these) Some good quality dry video cleaner is also ok, and in some places good quality "deoxit".

Then careful if your model is with unsoldered semiconductors assembled with socket. Some times they may drop. Do not turn any internal adjustement until know procedure.  Adjuxstment is described in service manual and there is also interactions between adjustments - some adjustments need do with right order. Some adjustments need special test equipments.

465 can use and adjust without external service fan when case is open. (most of 2400 need external fan - if want avoid hybrids damage.)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on August 26, 2013, 04:17:53 AM
rf-loop:
Thanks for the information. I read the article and will attempt to do as indicated.
Thanks for your time.
Have a nice week ahead.
Don
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: erick on October 22, 2013, 04:52:40 AM
Hey, guys

It finally happened. After about eight months looking for a decent used scope, I managed to find an engineer selling his old Tektronix 2215A (he went digital).

It cost me almost 200 dollars, but here it Brazil you won't get any better deal, especially considering it is a Tektronix oscilloscope, working just fine.

It came with just one old hitachi probe. I'm looking for another one on ebay, now, wondering if it's worth buying a good expensive one or if I should go with one of these cheap chinese probes.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: amtpdb on October 22, 2013, 08:04:30 AM
Well the scope I received had more problems then I first thought. I sent it back. So the final outcome of this was no scope and I had to pay to and from shipping that amounted to 100.00!!! That shows you my luck. I am again very hesitant to try this again!
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: iXod on October 24, 2013, 05:17:34 AM
It's worth it ($0) to post an advert on the local CraigsList in the Electronics area and ask if anyone has one (even not working).

I got a "dead" Tek 2430A for $0 that just needed a new param battery.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: kc9qvl on November 15, 2013, 02:15:19 PM
My  tds360 fresh out of the bath. $55.00 from craigslist. Good probes on order. Did a little mod. The small toggle switches next to the input jacks. Set the Tekprobe interface to 10x. That bit of goop around switch is exactly that GOOP. Bit of extra insurance hold the switch.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: katzohki on February 18, 2014, 08:08:05 AM
For those living in or around the LA area in California, look up the W6TRW swap meet and go to it (every 4th Saturday around Marine/Aviation Ave I think). There are TONS of cheap oscilloscopes! This is where I got my first scope, it was an off brand LG 60MHz and I paid 40$!
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: timelessbeing on February 18, 2014, 02:04:23 PM
Is Instek any good?
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: katzohki on February 18, 2014, 02:48:46 PM
Is Instek any good?

They're not bad in my opinion. Did you find one for less than 50$? Dave did a review on one recent model.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: timelessbeing on February 18, 2014, 04:12:35 PM
Nope. Both over $100.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on February 18, 2014, 06:02:57 PM
Is Instek any good?

Instek (GW/Goodwill) are a name brand, and have always made pretty decent stuff.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: edavid on February 19, 2014, 03:58:22 AM
Is Instek any good?

It can be hard to find service manuals  :(
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: timelessbeing on February 19, 2014, 09:23:33 AM
Cool. I'll add GW/Instek to my list of candidates.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: Prime73 on March 18, 2014, 07:18:26 AM
seems the same in Canada. The only option I see is to buy in US and pay $150 in delivery and duties on $50 scope...
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: SeanB on March 18, 2014, 07:27:43 AM
Not even available here in South Africa.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on March 18, 2014, 08:44:33 AM
seems the same in Canada. The only option I see is to buy in US and pay $150 in delivery and duties on $50 scope...

Then wait, that's what ebay email alerts are for.
But I see one:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/HAMEG-HM203-4-2-CHANNEL-OSCILLOSCOPE-20-MHz-/331153019577?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item4d1a4212b9 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/HAMEG-HM203-4-2-CHANNEL-OSCILLOSCOPE-20-MHz-/331153019577?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item4d1a4212b9)
Make that two:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Leader-LBO-522-20MHz-Oscilloscope-Excellent-condition-/271424662803?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_210&hash=item3f322bad13 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Leader-LBO-522-20MHz-Oscilloscope-Excellent-condition-/271424662803?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_210&hash=item3f322bad13)
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: edavid on March 18, 2014, 09:39:32 AM
The solution is simple. Get a US address, there are many companies that can act as a hoem adress and send the things to you cheaper than regular post.

The first part is true, the second part is not.  These companies can't magically provide cheaper international shipping... in fact they usually mark up the shipping.


Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: EEVblog on March 18, 2014, 10:13:44 AM
The first part is true, the second part is not.  These companies can't magically provide cheaper international shipping... in fact they usually mark up the shipping.

Yep, they aren't cheap, esp to Australia. I only use mine when absolutely desperate and price isn't an issue.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: SeanB on March 18, 2014, 03:59:17 PM
I do have that available, but scopes are not really common items here. I do have a set of search terms out for them locally, and only got one hit which was a $80 purchase.
Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: calin on March 20, 2014, 09:25:55 AM
Hate me :) .. I am waiting for an 60$ free delivery Tek 2213A 60Mhz to arrive today or tomorrow. Claims to be in working condition .. I literally stumbled over it while browsing around last week and just hit buy ASAP .... So yes the 50$ usable scope dream does exits if you are lucky enough

Title: Re: EEVblog #498 - How to get a $50 Oscilloscope on Ebay
Post by: lewis on June 29, 2015, 08:53:21 PM
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but this might be a heads up for anyone still looking for a very cheap scope.

I have some scopes going on ebay at the moment for 99p no reserve. One of them in particular is likely to go for less than $50.

http://www.abeltronics.co.uk/workshop-clearout.php (http://www.abeltronics.co.uk/workshop-clearout.php)