Author Topic: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply  (Read 70845 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23997
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« on: August 17, 2013, 01:54:16 PM »
Dave gives his initial impression on the Rigol 832 triple output 195W lab power supply.

 

Offline synapsis

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 139
  • Country: us
    • Blackcow
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2013, 02:05:50 PM »
I like all the features (and imminent hackability) of this power supply, but the numberpad layout absolutely kills it for me. If it was laid out more like the 1000 series power supplies, I'd be putting my order in for a $400 power supply today.

You can even see Dave have to hunt with his thumb when typing in values.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2013, 02:22:55 PM »
I could get used to the number pad, though I'm not a fan of it. I'd much prefer a more intuitive (accelerated) response to the dial.

Dave.... I think the reason the main display lagged the set display was because the main display is an actual, measured readout. Have you tested how quickly it can jump from one voltage to another? The setpoint may be too heavily filtered in hardware to make it change as swiftly as you can adjust it with the knob in software - and if that's meant to be a true measurement, I'd prefer they didn't make it lie to me while I'm turning the knob just to make it look better.

The green LCD looks surprisingly good. It does remind me of a CRT, but not in the "look what I can do!" marketing wank bullshit sense like that retarded dashboard mode... (Seriously, whose dumb-ass idea was that?)

I think the Hello Kitty-ness of it goes away when you turn off the damn dashboard.....

Overall.... *drool*
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 02:31:22 PM by c4757p »
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline DarkPrince

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 107
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2013, 02:30:17 PM »
I like all the features (and imminent hackability) of this power supply, but the numberpad layout absolutely kills it for me. If it was laid out more like the 1000 series power supplies, I'd be putting my order in for a $400 power supply today.

You can even see Dave have to hunt with his thumb when typing in values.

Same here. I know if the layout was better (common Rigol) and it didn't have that initial spike (not saying I wouldn't ever get it) I would get it this minute. I still may... eventually.

Dave.... I think the reason the main display lagged the set display was because the main display is an actual, measured readout. Have you tested how quickly it can jump from one voltage to another? The setpoint may be too heavily filtered in hardware to make it change as swiftly as you can adjust it with the knob in software - and if that's meant to be a true measurement, I'd prefer they didn't make it lie to me while I'm turning the knob just to make it look better.

I thought about that at first but looks more like an update-after-timeout type response. If you look you'll see that it doesn't change at all while he wheels then it snaps to the latest value. I like what someone said (I think a YouTube comment) about protecting the load if you pass the target voltage and "spring" back. The output would have never tracked and all will be well. I actually rather like that. Consider if you were adjusting the 1v place and overshot your destination by one or two volts. No problem because the output only tracks when you settle. Move slow and it always tracks which can be assumed you're being careful and want it to track with you. Just a guess but sounds good to me.
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23997
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2013, 02:31:51 PM »
Dave.... I think the reason the main display lagged the set display was because the main display is an actual, measured readout. Have you tested how quickly it can jump from one voltage to another? The setpoint may be too heavily filtered in hardware to make it change as swiftly as you can adjust it with the knob in software - and if that's meant to be a true measurement, I'd prefer they didn't make it lie to me while I'm turning the knob just to make it look better.

Of course, you wouldn't want that. I'm sure the problem lies in the set value updating speed.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2013, 02:33:02 PM »
I thought about that at first but looks more like an update-after-timeout type response. If you look you'll see that it doesn't change at all while he wheels then it snaps to the latest value. I like what someone said (I think a YouTube comment) about protecting the load if you pass the target voltage and "spring" back. The output would have never tracked and all will be well. I actually rather like that. Consider if you were adjusting the 1v place and overshot your destination by one or two volts. No problem because the output only tracks when you settle. Move slow and it always tracks which can be assumed you're being careful and want it to track with you. Just a guess but sounds good to me.

Ah, I see. Not a bad idea. I wish it could be disabled in software, then - that's something I'd rather handle with OVP, personally, but I can see how somebody might like it.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline ishelly404

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 10
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2013, 03:30:50 PM »
I just noticed that in the display settings, the LCD is showing multiple colors at the same time, which means that they are using a color LCD instead of one with a RGB backlight.  I wonder if that means that the 832 and 832A use identical hardware, and the only differences are in the firmware?  I wonder if an 832 could be hacked into a 832A?
 

Offline Rufus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2095
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2013, 03:46:08 PM »
I thought about that at first but looks more like an update-after-timeout type response. If you look you'll see that it doesn't change at all while he wheels then it snaps to the latest value. I like what someone said (I think a YouTube comment) about protecting the load if you pass the target voltage and "spring" back. The output would have never tracked and all will be well. I actually rather like that.

That would be absolutely horrendous.

If you know what voltage you want type it on the (weird) keypad. The knob is to find the voltage or current when something else happens, like a regulator dropping out or an over voltage trip point.

If the output doesn't track the knob in pretty much real time it may as well not have one.
 

Offline DarkPrince

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 107
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2013, 04:19:01 PM »
I thought about that at first but looks more like an update-after-timeout type response. If you look you'll see that it doesn't change at all while he wheels then it snaps to the latest value. I like what someone said (I think a YouTube comment) about protecting the load if you pass the target voltage and "spring" back. The output would have never tracked and all will be well. I actually rather like that.

That would be absolutely horrendous.

If you know what voltage you want type it on the (weird) keypad. The knob is to find the voltage or current when something else happens, like a regulator dropping out or an over voltage trip point.

If the output doesn't track the knob in pretty much real time it may as well not have one.

Yeah that is a good point. I just tried justifying the behavior and really it is the only thing I could think of. Also, some may prefer to "dial in" the voltage for old times sake... who knows. Makes as much sense as the keypad layout at the moment. :D But yes, I'll agree, it is trying to get two systems to behave similarly. If there wasn't a number pad than this feature does make sense.
 

Online David_AVD

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2511
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2013, 04:29:24 PM »
For a moment I thought Dave had a guest presenter for this video.  You sound a bit crook mate!   ???
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23997
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2013, 05:01:09 PM »
For a moment I thought Dave had a guest presenter for this video.  You sound a bit crook mate!   ???

Sagan and I have a bad virus, of the long lasting 5+ day kind apparently, it's "going around"  :(
 

Citizen

  • Guest
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2013, 07:00:08 PM »
Hm...I have again the strange feeling,this video is just too commercial. Once again: "Look how Rigol is much better then its shitty competitors.. Since i have this PSU i got lots of chicks, better job, stronger erection and more self confidence. Buy this product and your life will be as never before...call now..." and so on.

For example this Voltage spike at the power on can kill your 100k$? Chip if you forgot to disconnect your board from PSU(which can happen very easily), and any overvoltage protection will help you.Moreover we dont know if this spike appears in some other situations....
But all this excitement and "sugar crust", and the last scene where you are leaning on this PSU, telling people it is the best on market and blabla...
I understand you have to make money from your videos, and you have to give positive feedback, otherwise anyone will pay you for negative advertisement, but it was just to obvious to me.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 07:37:37 PM by Citizen »
 

Offline tinhead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1798
  • Country: 00
    • If you like my hacks, send me a donation
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2013, 07:32:20 PM »
well Dave, this time :--

This is not professional power supply, that transient/huge spike during power-on is everything but not professional, it shows that Rigol didn't designed or tested it properly, who knows if there are no other spikes in different situations. The last thing i need is to sit for a week and test what works and what not. Is it worth 400$ ? Ehm, no, it's not:
1- for that money i can buy 3 old Xantrex PSU, they do have RS232/GPIB, user I/O and no any surprises while switching or changing anything.
2- why someone would pay 400USD for circuit destroyer?

I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Offline Electro Fan

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1644
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2013, 07:41:24 PM »
Hm...I have again the strange feeling,this video is just too commercial. Once again: "Look how Rigol is much better then its shitty competitors.. Since i have this PSU i got lots of chicks, better job, stronger erection and more self confidence. Buy this product and your life will be as never before...call now..." and so on.

For example this Voltage spike at the power on can kill your 100k$? Chip if you forgot to disconnect your board from PSU(which can happen very easily), and any overvoltage protection will help you.Moreover we dont know if this spike appears in some other situations....
But all this excitement and "sugar crust", and the last scene where you are leaning on this PSU, telling people it is the best on market and blabla...
I understand you have to make money from your videos, and you have to give positive feedback, otherwise anyone will pay you for negative advertisement, but it was just to obvious to me.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I don't think Dave is "commercial" I think he's just being Dave - he has his opinions - everyone does - and when he gets excited he shows his excitement.

Plus, as he always says, "it's not a review" - "it's just a first impression".  So, I wouldn't put too much "commercial" emphasis on it.

Having said that, I think your comment about Dave's comment that "for example this voltage spike could kill your $100k board" was interesting in light of the fact that the "non-review" was sailing nicely pretty much all the way through and then we got to the tests where we had what?  Spikes.  Just seems to me that if spikes could kill a $100k board that we should be vetting the spike issue a bit further.  Not everyone has a $100k board but I doubt everyone wants to disconnect their device(s) before every PS power-up. 

Having said all that, if the spikes are non-issues then the excitement really is warranted - what other power supply delivers all the rest of the performance and functionality for the same price or less?  Not many, if any.  The product has great potential.  Rigol just needs to finish it by eliminating the turn-on spikes.  When the outputs are off they should be off, and when they turn on they should turn on gracefully.  (Probably should make sure they turn off gracefully too.)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 07:45:18 PM by Electro Fan »
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23997
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2013, 07:51:19 PM »
Hm...I have again the strange feeling,this video is just too commercial. Once again: "Look how Rigol is much better then its shitty competitors.. Since i have this PSU i got lots of chicks, better job, stronger erection and more self confidence. Buy this product and your life will be as never before...call now..." and so on.

Same reply I gave to your same comment on Youtube:

If I'm not mistaken, you've accused me of this commercial bias before, you are wrong. Lets see YOU go buy the supply and do a first impressions review and compare it with the ATTEN, and see what your reaction is. If it's a nice product I say so, if it's a shit product, I say so. It's not my fault if *insert manufacturer here* makes good stuff or crap stuff all the time. Rigol happen to make generally good stuff. If this video was "too commercial" why? would I mention the BAD stuff I don't like?
 

Citizen

  • Guest
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2013, 07:54:30 PM »
Same reply I gave to your same comment on Youtube:
Yes, i did. It was Tekway oscilloscope first impression video #487 . And then again you were comparing it to Rigol all the time, talking how much Rigol is better then this crap. Moreover you done lots of Rigol (positive) reviews before, that is why i am thinking Rigol is paying you for positive feedbacks (which is ok to me, since you have to earn money? somehow). I would glad to review Atten and Rigol PSU but i am not that rich to buy them.
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23997
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2013, 07:57:44 PM »
Having said that, I think your comment about Dave's comment that "for example this voltage spike could kill your $100k board" was interesting in light of the fact that the "non-review" was sailing nicely pretty much all the way through and then we got to the tests where we had what?  Spikes.  Just seems to me that if spikes could kill a $100k board that we should be vetting the spike issue a bit further.  Not everyone has a $100k board but I doubt everyone wants to disconnect their device(s) before every PS power-up. 

Sure, and I have no idea if this is a non-issue or not yet.
I'm not the be-all-end-all last-word authoritative review source.
I maybe found an issue (small or large, your choice), so I presented it, lets see if others can replicate it. And I need to do some more testing of my own too of course.

For all I know it could be some sort of capacitive charge issue that goes away if you leave the supply off for longer, or I could have had a dicky connection on my load, or....
How much energy in a 4 V spike that lasts for microseconds?
 

Offline Psi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6171
  • Country: nz
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2013, 08:08:45 PM »
I'm quite impressed with this PSU and $400 is pretty reasonable.

Quite tempted to just go order one now
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline Electro Fan

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1644
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2013, 08:10:06 PM »
Dave, first off, EEVers everywhere thank you for the reviews, and also for hosting and facilitating the forums - there is a lot of valuable information exchange both objective and subjective that happens as a result of your work.

On the spike thing I'm with you, it's not clear if it's an issue; it's good that you surfaced it with the initial testing that you did and we'll see if anyone else replicates it or has any insight on it.  It's part of the beauty of the forum - you have a community here that can figure out a lot of stuff.

Just one related question - does this 832 spec mean anything relative to what we saw in the video?  ““Less than 50 (micro) sec for output to recover to within 15 mV following a change in output current from full load to half load or vice versa.”
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23997
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2013, 08:19:49 PM »
Same reply I gave to your same comment on Youtube:
Yes, i did. It was Tekway oscilloscope first impression video #487 . And then again you were comparing it to Rigol all the time, talking how much Rigol is better then this crap. Moreover you done lots of Rigol (positive) reviews before, that is why i am thinking Rigol is paying you for positive feedbacks (which is ok to me, since you have to earn money? somehow). I would glad to review Atten and Rigol PSU but i am not that rich to buy them.

OK, I'll be quite frank, there is nothing that pisses me off more than people who claim I either being paid to give positive reviews, or have some sort of bias, when I clearly demonstrate time and time again that is not the case.
I don't mind if people don't like my review and comments, that's fine if you have another view, but please base them on facts.
Let get some facts straight. The Tekway as tested was crap, and I have video evidence to back that up. It had crap pulse response, and it had crap trigger stability for starters.
Do you really think that an oscilloscope, an instrument that is designed to measure and display a signal faithfully should have got a positive review? If you do, then quite frankly you are bonkers.
The result of that Tekway review? - my good mate Charles likely won't loan me anything ever again. You think I did that deliberately? I called it as I saw it.
The ATTEN PSU  was crap. In fact I took some heat for giving it a barely thumbs sideways.

So I'm calling you out:
Show me the evidence where the Rigol has the same signal integrity issues as that Tekway I tested.
Show me the evidence where the ATTEN is better to use and a more professional instrument than the Rigol.
Explain why I would show and say BAD things about the Rigol if they were paying me? WHY? Answer the question.
If you can't answer those then STFU with your ridiculous claims.

Yes, I'm sick, I'm tired, and I'm cranky. You got what you deserved. I have no tolerance for people who make unsubstantiated accusations. Back them up or bugger off.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 08:36:54 PM by EEVblog »
 

Offline KedasProbe

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 460
  • Country: be
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2013, 08:32:08 PM »
Does it act as a DCV multimeter when the channels are off?
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
[Albert Einstein]
 

Offline Psi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6171
  • Country: nz
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2013, 08:37:40 PM »
Does it act as a DCV multimeter when the channels are off?

good question
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Citizen

  • Guest
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2013, 08:40:06 PM »
"Show me the evidence where the Rigol has the same signal integrity issues as that Tekway I tested."

I don't own Rigol, so i couldn't compare it to my Takeway. Takeway is  by far not the perfect scope, but it is excellent for its price. I wouldn't expect ideal signal integrity and super smooth operation  from a 300 Euro  scope. But it does its job for hobby segment (the segment it is designed for) very good.

The  bad things you mentioned about this Rigol PSU aren't killer issues, some buttons or colors you don't like,very subjective, who cares.If I would do a payed reviews, i would also point some  light disadvantages , to make my video more credible... Else it would be too perfect.

It seems you don't have tolerance to negative feedback, i know people like that. They ask for feedback, but once you criticize their work,  they go berserk on you.

 

Offline tinhead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1798
  • Country: 00
    • If you like my hacks, send me a donation
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2013, 08:43:44 PM »
...
So I'm calling you out:
Show me the evidence where the Rigol has the same signal integrity issues as that Tekway I tested.

i'm not addressee, but you in wrong thread Dave, this here is about Rigol PSU and not broken Tekway  :blah:

Talking about ignorance, i and other professionals made measurments on Tekway/Hantek and didn't found anything what you found.
Sure, there was for some time big batch of products with worse response when they got hacked, but clearly not on untouched devices.
The unit you had was broken or not calibrated. I know how fucking stupid Hantek/Tekway (or who ever is the person sending replacement mainboards .. i have a whole batch of them, not calibrated, even DOA replacement boards. Charles probably missed that. But all that didn't means anything when talking about brand new devices taken out of the box and their performance). So i don't see there an issue anymore (or at least until next crap hw/sw update).

Talking about one-off issues, well, maybe the Rigol PSU you tested have does have such one-off issue, but honestly, as long not prooved i and other can rant on it (exactly as you did on other one-off things). Few µs 4V peak is no go for me, as i said, nobody knows it there are no other issues/peaks.

But when we alrady OT, do you remember rust? Yeah, check that Rigol (P1070742 copy.jpg), looks linke chinese manufacturer have now rusty-virus^^

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1074z-inside-picture/

I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23997
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2013, 08:49:49 PM »
I don't own Rigol, so i couldn't compare it to my Takeway.

You don't have to, I showed you evidence in the in the video that it does not.

Quote
Takeway is  by far not the perfect scope, but it is excellent for its price. I wouldn't expect ideal signal integrity and super smooth operation  from a 300 Euro  scope.

Why not? The Rigol does it for 239 euro.

Once again, you are wrong and have nothing to back up your claims.

Quote
But it does its job for hobby segment (the segment it is designed for) very good.
The  bad things you mentioned about this Rigol PSU aren't killer issues, some buttons or colors you don't like,very subjective, who cares.If I would do a payed reviews, i would also point some  light disadvantages , to make my video more credible... Else it would be too perfect.

Conveniently forgot the power on spikes did you?
Only an idiot would show that if they were paid to say good things about the unit.
That is a potentially serious issue for many people.
You are being selective of the facts that fit your case, and once again have nothing to back up your claims.

Quote
It seems you don't have tolerance to negative feedback, i know people like that. They ask for feedback, but once you criticize their work,  they go berserk on you.

Bullshit.
Once again you fail to back up that claim. The evidence that I deliberately allow your comments to remain on youtube and the forum blows another one of your ridiculous claims out the water.
You still have not answered my questions.
You still have not backed up your claims.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf

 

http://opalkelly.com/