Author Topic: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator  (Read 24137 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« on: February 04, 2014, 10:17:51 am »
A quick look at Dave's Advantest R6142 Voltage and Current Source.
Can it be used as a current reference for the uCurrent?
A look at the stability with temperature and time, and absolute calibration of the unit.
Is it an ebay score, or ebay junk?

 

Offline nathanpc

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2014, 10:40:56 am »
Of course everyone wants to see a teardown of that beautiful piece of test gear. :)
 

Offline ion

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2014, 11:08:14 am »
+1 for the teardown!

If only the camera was a bit higher on that last shot...
 

Offline SiC

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2014, 11:52:00 am »
I love Advantest kit. :)

Snagged a 3.6GHz Spectrum Analyser with separate Tracking gen for under £500 last year off ebay. Significantly cheaper than a comparable HP, R&S, etc equivalent.

After a bit of googling and help with Google Translate - I found the manual here: http://www.adcmt.com/en/download/manual/

You'll need to create an account and accept their ToC jazz before it'll let you in. Probably could have uploaded it here, but would be no doubt against their ToC's...

Si.
 

Offline Mavro

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2014, 11:56:21 am »
How does this compare to the Rigol DP832 with precision option?
 

Offline SiC

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2014, 12:00:42 pm »
Oh and btw, the TR6142 is the older model. Apart from the datasheet in the video saying so, at some point Advantest changed revisions in their test kit by removing the T at the start - usually the models internals were updated with this change too. I have no idea why the T was dropped off rather than change the model number!

I have found that the schematics of one revision often very similar to the newer model, an element of design reuse. So the schematics in the older TR6142 may line up in some respects.

Si.
 

Offline ve7xen

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2014, 12:51:59 pm »
Interesting. I've been following Advantest for a while on eBay looking for stuff like this. Damn you Dave! No chance now!

While you wait for Dave's teardown of this box, you may be interested in my teardown of the Advantest R6871E-DC 6.5 digit DMM from the same era. Some interesting construction. Also a similarly weird and unintuitive button interface. http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/advantest-r6871e-dc-6-5digit-dmm-overviewteardown/
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 12:53:36 pm by ve7xen »
73 de VE7XEN
 

Offline aroby

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2014, 02:48:26 pm »
I recently came across the blog and I'm having a lot of fun with the videos and learning a ton.  I'm not an EE, so I'm struggling with what this stuff is used for !  It seems that everything is circular - ingenious electronics to calibrate other ingenious electronics.  What's the practical use for this generator other than calibrating other test equipment?

Anthony

PS I'm going to buy an oscilloscope ...
 

Offline Dongulus

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2014, 03:01:54 pm »
 Dave, surely you could have calculated 0.05% above 1 without a calculator. ;D
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2014, 03:18:56 pm »
+1 for the teardown!

If only the camera was a bit higher on that last shot...

He did say it was a teaser...... Any higher and he would have nothing for the teardown.
 

Offline nadona

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2014, 03:53:56 pm »
Advantest R6871E-DC 6.5 digit DMM
Why you call 7.5 digit DMM as 6.5 digit DMM, may I ask?
Ha-ha-ha. That's good, too!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2014, 03:55:41 pm »
Dave, surely you could have calculated 0.05% above 1 without a calculator. ;D

Of course, but I'm going through the motions for those playing along at home.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2014, 04:03:56 pm »
He did say it was a teaser...... Any higher and he would have nothing for the teardown.

I may have tweaked the camera height somewhat...
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2014, 04:06:31 pm »
It seems that everything is circular - ingenious electronics to calibrate other ingenious electronics.  What's the practical use for this generator other than calibrating other test equipment?

At this sort of resolution accuracy, yeah, that's pretty much the case.
Something like the constant generator is handy for testing LED's for example, but of course the need for this precision is quite niche.
Many of us on here are obsess... err... I mean, interested in high precision gear. It can be a sickness, you have been warned!
 

Online AlfBaz

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2014, 04:35:54 pm »
Many of us on here are obsess... err... I mean, interested in high precision gear. It can be a sickness, you have been warned!
I could stare at an LCD with a digit, followed by a decimal, followed by string of zero's all day ^-^
 

Offline Jebnor

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2014, 04:41:55 pm »
I for one would love to have a teardown of this device.  The theory of making one seems simple, but I'm sure it's not quite.  I think this would be a good candidate for a Teardown/Theory of operation hybrid video. 

Keep up the good work.
Before this, there was a typo.
 

Offline OrangeJacketGuy

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2014, 04:53:39 pm »
4 wire not working properly? Do a teardown and find out. What's this turn-it-on-before-taking-it-apart rubbish? ;)
 

Offline ve7xen

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2014, 05:00:52 pm »
Advantest R6871E-DC 6.5 digit DMM
Why you call 7.5 digit DMM as 6.5 digit DMM, may I ask?
The meter and most of its documentation seems to think it's a 6.5 digit. 7.5 digit mode is referred to as 'overrange' and I think its absolute accuracy specs aren't quite there for 8.5 digit mode. It does appear to be quite stable out to 7.5 digits, though I don't have the equipment to test it rigorously.
73 de VE7XEN
 

Offline speffex

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2014, 06:31:41 pm »
The 4-wire probably has some relatively high value resistors inside that are shunted by the external wiring. Same as the "sense" wires on some power supplies.
 

Offline Dr. Frank

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2014, 07:04:09 pm »
It seems that everything is circular - ingenious electronics to calibrate other ingenious electronics.  What's the practical use for this generator other than calibrating other test equipment?

At this sort of resolution accuracy, yeah, that's pretty much the case.
Something like the constant generator is handy for testing LED's for example, but of course the need for this precision is quite niche.
Many of us on here are obsess... err... I mean, interested in high precision gear. It can be a sickness, you have been warned!

Precision current sources (0.02% uncertainty/stability) are needed for thermometry, i.e. precise measurement of temperatures, especially in physics experiments at very low temperatures down to liquid He4 @ 4.2K and below.

For PT100 sensors, precise 1mA or 100µA are needed, 10µA and 1µA for Diode based thermometers (e.g. from Lake Shore) and for NTC types as carbon resistors. All that requires 4 point Kelvin measurement, and offset compensation, i.e. a setup with an external current source and a DCV multimeter.

The programming feature of the current source can be used to switch the current off, measuring the thermal offset, which would then be substracted from the measurement with current applied. Very few DMM have this feature, called Ohm Offset Compensation.

As such programmable current sources were very expensive, (Time Electronics, Keithley) and only decade values were needed, I've designed many budget high precision current sources (< 0.01%), which cost below 50 bucks only.

Frank

PS: Yes, I definitely want to see a teardown of this nice unit, please!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 08:46:10 pm by Dr. Frank »
 

Offline Rubi

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2014, 08:04:27 pm »
I've designed many budget high precision current sources (< 0.01%), which cost below 50 bucks only.

Frank


Hallo Dr.Frank

Would you share your designs ?

Grüße aus Wien
Rubi
 

Offline JoannaK

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2014, 08:04:39 pm »
Nice to see quick 20min video.. Definitely needs proper teardown. 
 

Online Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2014, 02:35:40 am »
I am a total Advantest 'Fanboy' as I used their equipment in my day job and loved it. Advantest is not the most common of brands to be found on the secondary market but you can sometimes be lucky. My inventory of Advantest test equipmet includes several spectrum analysers, optical power meter, two bench frequency counters and several bench multimeters. All of them work fine and are of various ages. Quality is evident in all of teh units taht I have worked on. The greatest problem with buying Advantest equipment is the lack of availabe documentation and servicing information. My R4131 manual cme with service information and schematics but none of my otehr manual have such and even finding a user manual can be very challenging and expensive. I resorted to downloading the Japanese user manuals for some of my multimeters ! Pictures can speak a thousand words.

Advantest equipmet has, IMHO, always had a very good reputation and so tends to hold its value. The Voltage and Current source is usually a very expensive piece of equiment on the secondary market.

If I were to be asked whether I would recommend Advantest over certain other well known brands, I would have a problem. The poor availability of documentation and spares can make them a poor choice when compared to say HP or Tektronix. I still love Advantest kit though and I am prepared to repair it if things go wrong. That is my position but I realise that HP and Tektronix may be more appealing to others. I own plenty of Tektronix kit but only a single piece of HP kit....  The Logic Dart (well 4 of them to be precise). Prices on HP kit can be eye watering due to the known high quality and the repuatation that goes with the name Hewlett Packard.

Anritsu kit is also good, but suffers the same chronic lack of documentation and servicing information as Advantest. I once had to import a service manual from the USA at very high cost as it was only available from one supplier and it was only in paper format.
 

Offline Nuno_pt

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2014, 02:41:28 am »
I've designed many budget high precision current sources (< 0.01%), which cost below 50 bucks only.

Frank


Hallo Dr.Frank

Would you share your designs ?

Grüße aus Wien
Rubi

+ 1 here, I would be interested in see the designs, if they can be public available.

Nuno
CT2IRY
 

Offline Dr. Frank

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2014, 03:02:42 am »
I've designed many budget high precision current sources (< 0.01%), which cost below 50 bucks only.

Frank


Hallo Dr.Frank

Would you share your designs ?

Grüße aus Wien
Rubi

+ 1 here, I would be interested in see the designs, if they can be public available.


Well ok, I'm already collecting some photos.
Will be in the Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff thread the next days.
Frank
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 03:05:05 am by Dr. Frank »
 

Offline robrenz

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2014, 03:09:01 am »
Thank you!  :-+

Offline electronics man

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2014, 03:10:52 am »
Tear it down
follow me on twitter @get_your_byte
 

Offline e61_phil

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2014, 06:41:58 am »
Tear it down and tell us how a precision analog to digital converter works :)   (especially this calibration sources with 5.5 and more digits)
 

Offline OrangeJacketGuy

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2014, 10:13:19 am »
*gathers up best Reagan parody voice* Mister Jones, tear down this Voltage Generator!
 

Offline junggwok

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2014, 12:06:10 pm »
I made a an offer for a Advantest R6142 over a year ago on eBay, however the seller declined my offer. The unit has been on sale on eBay for over 3 years. It is sold 3 hours after Dave did a video on it. Haha, gotta love his influence.

 

Offline gemby

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2014, 08:22:56 pm »
I made a an offer for a Advantest R6142 over a year ago on eBay, however the seller declined my offer. The unit has been on sale on eBay for over 3 years. It is sold 3 hours after Dave did a video on it. Haha, gotta love his influence.

 :-+
 

Offline gemby

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2014, 08:26:30 pm »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2014, 09:01:48 pm »
I've got an R6871E on the way...
 

Online Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2014, 09:05:11 pm »
@Dave,

The R6871E is a sizeable beast but has excellent performance. I own one and IIRC that was the unit for which I imported the user & service manual from the USA. I believe that these manuals are now available for free download.

Update: User Manual is here:

http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/index.php?dir=Advantest

Service Manual is here:

http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/62929/Advantest_R6871E.html
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 09:10:30 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline Slothie

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2014, 04:30:07 am »
Just looked on eBay UK and there are a few Advantest spectum analysers for sale at 2-3K and voltage/current sources at 1.5-2K. No 300 dollar bargains! But perhaps they are rarer in this neck of the woods.
 

Offline hikariuk

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2014, 06:11:03 am »
Just looked on eBay UK and there are a few Advantest spectum analysers for sale at 2-3K and voltage/current sources at 1.5-2K. No  bargains! But perhaps they are rarer in this neck of the woods.

Yeah, I noticed that too.  Set up a search anyway, Just In Case :)
I write software.  I'd far rather be doing something else.
 

Offline drtaylor

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2014, 11:02:13 am »
Dave,. I just wanted to comment on the 2-wire vs 4-wire sensing on the R6142. It is common practice to hook the sense leads to the source leads internally with resistors. These resistors are sized so that the sensing error they add is insignificant which is why you didn't see a change in output value. But if you use 4 terminal sensing at the end of your cable, and there is a load there, you will definitely improve the delivery point accuracy by using kelvin connections. For example, let's say the sense and source leads are connected internally with 200 ohm resistors. Then try to source 100mA at 10 V through 22AWG wire. Without the sense leads, the wire resistance alone will cause a significant error. At Fluke we'd debate leaving out the 2T/4T switch as the resistors add so little error in low current measurements.

Obviously Advantest Engineers went with the resistor connected sense leads, so, for low current outputs, you would not see a difference between the 2T and 4T positions of the switch.
 

Offline megajocke

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2014, 07:58:08 am »
I'm not sure I understood the video correctly, but to me it sounded like Dave tested flipping the switch in the constant current mode -- which wouldn't even use the 4-wire connection. So nothing changing is the expected behavior in that case.

There are probably resistors as you say, so even in constant voltage mode it would probably still work, albeit possibly with a little bit of voltage error, if switched to 4-wire sensing while leaving the sense terminals unconnected.

To test the 4-wire mode you'd need a load causing significant voltage drop in the cables and also to operate it in CV mode.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 08:00:19 am by megajocke »
 

Offline Jebnor

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2014, 12:30:30 pm »
Have we had a teardown of this lovely piece of test equipment yet?  Have I missed it?
Before this, there was a typo.
 

Online David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2014, 09:20:26 pm »
What's the practical use for this generator other than calibrating other test equipment?

Precision power supplies like this can be used for device characterization and design and development work.  Keithley has a whole business selling precision sources like this.
 

Online David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2014, 09:26:58 pm »
Dave,. I just wanted to comment on the 2-wire vs 4-wire sensing on the R6142. It is common practice to hook the sense leads to the source leads internally with resistors. These resistors are sized so that the sensing error they add is insignificant which is why you didn't see a change in output value. But if you use 4 terminal sensing at the end of your cable, and there is a load there, you will definitely improve the delivery point accuracy by using kelvin connections. For example, let's say the sense and source leads are connected internally with 200 ohm resistors. Then try to source 100mA at 10 V through 22AWG wire. Without the sense leads, the wire resistance alone will cause a significant error. At Fluke we'd debate leaving out the 2T/4T switch as the resistors add so little error in low current measurements.

Obviously Advantest Engineers went with the resistor connected sense leads, so, for low current outputs, you would not see a difference between the 2T and 4T positions of the switch.

Adding resistors or some type of low voltage shunt is also a safety feature.  If a sense lead accidentally gets disconnected, the force voltage will not rise out of bounds possibly damaging the load.  Power supplies with remote sense often include this to protect their load.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2015, 07:33:54 am »
I got a bargain price on a Advantest R6144 Current Voltage Generator in perfect condition
This R6144 is very similar to the one Dave showed in this video.
But it took me some time to find the operating guide / user manual but I finally got lucky.

Advantest R6144 User Manual:
ds.theatr.us/test-equipment/Advantest/6144_ope_e.pdf

If anyone wants to see some pictures from the inside of this R6144, let me know, and I will open it.
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Offline baoshi

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2015, 09:53:27 am »
Thanks for the manual. I heard it is possible to hack R6142 into a R6144 by shorting JP1, JP2 and JP11.  Maybe Dave or you can tear down your units to compare?
 

Offline dadler

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2015, 12:16:34 pm »
I also have an Advantest R6144, excellent condition, still in perfect calibration. Purchased for peanuts on eBay from a seller that had one left and was liquidating them. Excellent unit.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2015, 05:43:24 pm »
Thanks for the manual. I heard it is possible to hack R6142 into a R6144 by shorting JP1, JP2 and JP11.  Maybe Dave or you can tear down your units to compare?
I am traveling right now, but let me take a look when I am back in the lab.
Also, I got one more manual for this R6144, may be I find the 'hack' possibility in there.
Inreresting really is how stable this unit behaves
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Offline Len

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2015, 01:21:04 am »
Dave uses his R6142 to troubleshoot a Keithley DMM in EEVblog #777
https://youtu.be/kdCfAR06GeI?t=8m3s
 

Offline kubatyszko

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2015, 09:45:04 pm »
Oh and btw, the TR6142 is the older model. Apart from the datasheet in the video saying so, at some point Advantest changed revisions in their test kit by removing the T at the start - usually the models internals were updated with this change too. I have no idea why the T was dropped off rather than change the model number!

I have found that the schematics of one revision often very similar to the newer model, an element of design reuse. So the schematics in the older TR6142 may line up in some respects.

Si.

For the general public, the "TR" models seem to have been made under brand "Takeda Riken" - and many people in Japan still refer to Advantest as Takeda.

The reason for replacing the TR with R was just the brand change.

Also, there's one more brand called "ADCMT" which seems to hold the "old" equipment, at least Adantest seems to direct queries regarding older equipment there...
 

Offline deadlylover

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2015, 01:21:41 am »
Yep, it seems like any new electronic test gear is now under the ADCMT brand. There are still a few spectrum analysers on the Advantest site, but everything else is ADCMT.

I have both the TR6142 and R6142, they are certainly a little different on the inside and outside. You have to twiddle pots to adjust the TR6142, whereas the R6142 is done err... closed case style in software? (I forget the proper term =P)
Otherwise, most things from "TR" to "R" are the same.

Just a friendly warning, the Maxell backup batteries used inside most old-ish Advantest gear will need to be replaced soon, I had one explode in a nice R6145 Voltage/Current Source/Monitor, taking out quite a bit of the digital circuitry.  :-[
So don't be lazy and replace them ASAP!  :P
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2015, 01:43:18 am »
Just a friendly warning, the Maxell backup batteries used inside most old-ish Advantest gear will need to be replaced soon, I had one explode in a nice R6145 Voltage/Current Source/Monitor, taking out quite a bit of the digital circuitry.  :-[
So don't be lazy and replace them ASAP!  :P
Thanks for that info
I will take my unit apart and exchange it and at the same time take some pictures.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline deadlylover

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2015, 01:54:33 am »
Thanks for that info
I will take my unit apart and exchange it and at the same time take some pictures.

I was a bit lazy because I can recalibrate the unit myself any time I wanted, so I thought it was okay if the battery dies a silent death...  :-\

Murphy got me.
 

Offline max666

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Re: EEVblog #576 - Advantest R6142 Current Voltage Generator
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2017, 06:29:56 am »
Have we had a teardown of this lovely piece of test equipment yet?  Have I missed it?

Bump!
Please do a teardown of this beauty, Dave. I think you've teased us long enough.
 


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