Author Topic: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope  (Read 43732 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #125 on: March 16, 2014, 02:52:38 pm »
Is yuyv422  the only output available?

According to the listing, yes.

BTW, my problem is when I ask a computer question there is always, always, 100 different "experts" who claim they know the right answer (and they are usually all different) and who aren't shy about telling me why they are right and their credentials etc. That's why I don't necessarily jump every time someone says to.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #126 on: March 16, 2014, 02:54:03 pm »
What frame rate are you wanting to record? The full 60fps or something less.

Ideally the full 60fps, because, well, I can. And it might be useful for slowmo.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #127 on: March 16, 2014, 03:03:59 pm »
Is yuyv422  the only output available?

According to the listing, yes.

BTW, my problem is when I ask a computer question there is always, always, 100 different "experts" who claim they know the right answer (and they are usually all different) and who aren't shy about telling me why they are right and their credentials etc. That's why I don't necessarily jump every time someone says to.

Meanwhile, there's a few of us with a little more experience who would like to try to help, if only you'd c+p a couple dozen lines of text..
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #128 on: March 16, 2014, 03:29:54 pm »
Meanwhile, there's a few of us with a little more experience who would like to try to help, if only you'd c+p a couple dozen lines of text..

"if only" requires that I go back to the lab and set everything up again to try it.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #129 on: March 16, 2014, 03:31:07 pm »
Meanwhile, there's a few of us with a little more experience who would like to try to help, if only you'd c+p a couple dozen lines of text..

"if only" requires that I go back to the lab and set everything up again to try it.

Well, kinda figured you were at the lab with it at the time..
 

Offline mfeinstein

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #130 on: March 20, 2014, 08:18:07 am »
Dave, I live in Brazil and I hardly have to deal with ESD problems, so forguive me if my question is stupid, but shouldn't you have something also in your lab floor to prevent your shoes from build up ESD charge? You could charge up and zap some piece of electronics sitting on the table, if you don't touch the rubber first I guess...
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #131 on: March 20, 2014, 08:36:33 am »
Dave, I live in Brazil and I hardly have to deal with ESD problems, so forguive me if my question is stupid, but shouldn't you have something also in your lab floor to prevent your shoes from build up ESD charge? You could charge up and zap some piece of electronics sitting on the table, if you don't touch the rubber first I guess...
Are you using a wrist strap as well as the mat?

I ask, as a wrist strap should discharge you before ever touching the mat or a PCB.
 

Offline Dave Turner

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #132 on: March 20, 2014, 10:48:24 am »
Forty years ago I used to wrap my socked toe around the radiator pipe and/or always kept my wrist in contact with an earthed chassis. The only time I fried anything was when I stupidly swapped Vcc & Gnd to my homebrew microprocessor board in the early 80's. Fried the Z80 I'd bought for £100 in 1974  |O
 

Offline mfeinstein

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #133 on: March 20, 2014, 11:17:53 am »
Dave, I live in Brazil and I hardly have to deal with ESD problems, so forguive me if my question is stupid, but shouldn't you have something also in your lab floor to prevent your shoes from build up ESD charge? You could charge up and zap some piece of electronics sitting on the table, if you don't touch the rubber first I guess...
Are you using a wrist strap as well as the mat?

I ask, as a wrist strap should discharge you before ever touching the mat or a PCB.

I don't use anything, really ESD in Brazil (at least here in Rio) is just not a concern for regular electronics, the air is too humid and cant build any charge in your body. I never ever fried anything due to ESD, just due to stupidity or lack of attention :P
 

Online linux-works

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #134 on: March 20, 2014, 01:21:18 pm »
fwiw, static can degrade parts without destroying them.  and I believe its additive, too.  so while you may not notice immediate parts failures, you probably don't KNOW that you are completely safe if you ignore ESD procedures.

when things were really delicate (20+yrs ago, maybe even 30+) then you'd see immediate failures.  I remember springs being wrapped around mosfet leads and you'd solder the part down then remove the spring shorting wire.  those days are mostly over but it still pays to be safe.
 

Offline mfeinstein

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #135 on: March 20, 2014, 02:20:12 pm »
fwiw, static can degrade parts without destroying them.  and I believe its additive, too.  so while you may not notice immediate parts failures, you probably don't KNOW that you are completely safe if you ignore ESD procedures.

when things were really delicate (20+yrs ago, maybe even 30+) then you'd see immediate failures.  I remember springs being wrapped around mosfet leads and you'd solder the part down then remove the spring shorting wire.  those days are mostly over but it still pays to be safe.

Well, I know, but most my electronics stuff are just DYI projects, and prototypes, and all my tools are ESD safe or the components are ESD safe....the serious ones I usually take more precaution...but seriously, here is so humid ESD cant build up any charge, most the people I know that use ESD wrist bands just use it because it's satandard industry procedure. Thanks for the heads up anyways :)
 

Offline Nerull

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #136 on: March 20, 2014, 04:20:25 pm »
ESD builds up just fine in humid environments. I've seen quite a few mosfets fried that didn't seem to get the notice that it was very humid that day.
 

Offline Dave Turner

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #137 on: March 21, 2014, 06:28:27 am »
With Dave's predilection for going barefoot his ESD protection is possibly OTT anyway.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #138 on: March 21, 2014, 07:05:10 am »
all my tools are ESD safe
ESD compliant tools still need the user attached to a resistive ground path, or the ESD aspect is useless.

FWIW, I also live in a humid climate, and still take basic precautions (mat & wrist strap).

I realize things are more expensive in Brazil than the US for example, but I would hope there are some sources that it's not prohibitively expensive (I have some Chinese made mat branded as Sierra, and it seems decent <1.5mm thick, 2 layer>). Canadian made mat I have is nicer (2.0mm thick), but the seller won't ship to Brazil. Another member, Lightages, might be able to help with a source, as he's also located in Brazil (might be worth a PM).

India manufactures ESD rubber mat material as well, so that might be worth looking into as well.
 

Offline GiskardReventlov

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #139 on: March 21, 2014, 07:08:26 am »
With Dave's predilection for going barefoot his ESD protection is possibly OTT anyway.

How well grounded can you be if you are barefoot on carpeting or other non-conductive flooring?
 

Offline mfeinstein

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #140 on: March 21, 2014, 07:58:30 am »
all my tools are ESD safe
ESD compliant tools still need the user attached to a resistive ground path, or the ESD aspect is useless.

FWIW, I also live in a humid climate, and still take basic precautions (mat & wrist strap).

I realize things are more expensive in Brazil than the US for example, but I would hope there are some sources that it's not prohibitively expensive (I have some Chinese made mat branded as Sierra, and it seems decent <1.5mm thick, 2 layer>). Canadian made mat I have is nicer (2.0mm thick), but the seller won't ship to Brazil. Another member, Lightages, might be able to help with a source, as he's also located in Brazil (might be worth a PM).

India manufactures ESD rubber mat material as well, so that might be worth looking into as well.

I am glad you know things in here are incredibly expensive, most people have no clue. Space is a problem as well, I used to use my universities facilities, but now that I have graduated I am still trying to figure my own lab. For sure I will have some ESD rubber when I have a space...but now getting a proper space is the real problem haha once I have it figured I will do as always: bring it myself from the USA...import taxes in Brazil goes as high as 97%, that's why people in here usually dont think about shipping large stuff, the government will tax you.

 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #141 on: March 21, 2014, 08:50:31 am »
I am glad you know things in here are incredibly expensive, most people have no clue. Space is a problem as well, I used to use my universities facilities, but now that I have graduated I am still trying to figure my own lab. For sure I will have some ESD rubber when I have a space...but now getting a proper space is the real problem haha once I have it figured I will do as always: bring it myself from the USA...import taxes in Brazil goes as high as 97%, that's why people in here usually dont think about shipping large stuff, the government will tax you.
You could start with a small piece, such as the size of a place mat on a table (say 18"x24" for example; should help with space constraints as well as cost). And at least you have the potential of bringing it in yourself from the US, which may end up being the least expensive method. Though with baggage fees, I'm not entirely sure.

Wrist strap shouldn't be a big issue (cheap & light weight). If you do go with importing it yourself from the US, you might want to look into the better brands for wrist straps, such as Desco IMHO (i.e. metal band will last longer than elastic types).
 

Offline Dave Turner

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #142 on: March 21, 2014, 08:58:08 am »
With Dave's predilection for going barefoot his ESD protection is possibly OTT anyway.

How well grounded can you be if you are barefoot on carpeting or other non-conductive flooring?

Whilst my comment was intended to be amusing I suggest that the floor in Dave's lab is unlikely to generate static.

How about a measurement Dave?
 

Offline GiskardReventlov

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Re: EEVblog #585 - Lab Bench ESD Matting Upgrade + Tagarno HD Microscope
« Reply #143 on: March 21, 2014, 02:13:58 pm »
Whilst my comment was intended to be amusing I suggest that the floor in Dave's lab is unlikely to generate static.

I did know it was meant in jest. I was also making a little fun out of it. I think Dave's well grounded.

Quote
How about a measurement Dave?
"In this episode Dave provides empirical proof that he's well grounded thereby quieting all that loose talk that he's nuts."

I saw an interesting talk about the potential (I'll take the pun) for health benefits of regular grounding via bare feet on terra firma.  It seems plausible.
 


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