Author Topic: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown  (Read 22734 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PetrosA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 625
  • Country: us
So far, not a bad review, Dave.

I have to say, the IP rating and drop rating on this meter seem almost gimmicky to me as an electrician (especially considering the crappy gasket), and a whole slew of "Who wants his meter?" jokes came to mind, like "Hey guys, Sparky got shocked, fell off his ladder and died, but his Fluke is still ticking, so who want his meter?" The only sense I can see in the IP rating is if the meter gets dropped into water by accident since no electrician worth their salt would take the risk of testing open mains voltage in the rain or with a hose pointed at them unless they work for a utility company.

The continuity tone is actually one step down in pitch from the 87V, but that's a minor detail :)

I miss my home I miss my porch, porch
 

Offline rossmoffett

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 234
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 04:47:43 am »
There's also the accidental side of things, people who do field work might accidentally leave it out in the bed of a truck and then it rains, or maybe they're on a ladder and can't find a secure place to put the meter, or it could fall out of the truck, etc. etc.

Generally though the people I've worked with treated their expensive equipment like their babies, because they'd paid for one before.   :D
ArcAttack - A group of musical Tesla coil performers with semi-regular blog updates.
 

Offline PetrosA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 625
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 10:44:44 am »
There's also the accidental side of things, people who do field work might accidentally leave it out in the bed of a truck and then it rains, or maybe they're on a ladder and can't find a secure place to put the meter, or it could fall out of the truck, etc. etc.

Generally though the people I've worked with treated their expensive equipment like their babies, because they'd paid for one before.   :D

I agree. It would be rare to find someone who paid for a tester like that themselves and would be careless with it. We don't make that much money ;)

For all but torrential rain though, IP 67 is overkill in general use. I doubt a regular tester is going to get damaged beyond repair by water, even if it was submerged (except maybe salt water). Just dry it out before using again.
I miss my home I miss my porch, porch
 

Offline rossmoffett

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 234
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 10:47:37 am »
For all but torrential rain though, IP 67 is overkill in general use. I doubt a regular tester is going to get damaged beyond repair by water, even if it was submerged (except maybe salt water). Just dry it out before using again.

I was thinking the same thing as I was watching it, I have a hard time imagining situations where an 87 wouldn't take pretty much the same abuse.  Granted, it doesn't have all of the O-rings but not much water would make it in.
ArcAttack - A group of musical Tesla coil performers with semi-regular blog updates.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27924
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 07:13:52 pm »
The most impressive (and useful) thing about the meter for me is the ruggedness, not so much the waterproofing.

Having just done most of my drop and abuse testing, I must say I'm very impressed at what this meter can survive!

The waterproofing and buoyancy might seem a gimmicky for most, but you have to remember Fluke sell zillions of these to the military, and in those fields you don't just measure stuff when the conditions are hunky-dory.

But even in factories and environments I've worked in, it was not uncommon to get oils and liquids spilled on a meter. So I can think of lots of places such a rugged waterproof meter would be handy. Fluke are on a real winner I think, it ain't no gimmick, you can bet your bottom dollar it meets a real market need.

Dave.
 

Offline PetrosA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 625
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2010, 01:52:34 am »
The most impressive (and useful) thing about the meter for me is the ruggedness, not so much the waterproofing.

Having just done most of my drop and abuse testing, I must say I'm very impressed at what this meter can survive!

The waterproofing and buoyancy might seem a gimmicky for most, but you have to remember Fluke sell zillions of these to the military, and in those fields you don't just measure stuff when the conditions are hunky-dory.

But even in factories and environments I've worked in, it was not uncommon to get oils and liquids spilled on a meter. So I can think of lots of places such a rugged waterproof meter would be handy. Fluke are on a real winner I think, it ain't no gimmick, you can bet your bottom dollar it meets a real market need.

Dave.

I absolutely agree that ruggedness is a "deciding factor" kind of feature. Let me qualify my "gimmicky" comment to give you a better understanding of where I'm coming from. Here in the US, Fluke has traditionally been sold exclusively through supply houses, industrial supplies, specialty test equipment suppliers etc. It was not the kind of thing you could go to your local hardware store and buy and because of that, their "marketing" style was geared towards professional users like us. In recent years they've started selling their products through Sears (a large consumer-grade tool store), and a number of hardware and big garden center/residential hardware stores like Home Depot and Lowes. Unfortunately, many professional grade brands that have gone that route have suffered visible and measurable drops in quality in an attempt to sell volume. I hope that this won't happen to Fluke, but when I see something like that waterproofing o-ring it just makes it look like their intent is to sell a gimmick, rather than a real advancement.
I miss my home I miss my porch, porch
 

Offline Veramacor

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 111
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2010, 03:06:24 am »
Dave also had a useful subliminal message for fanboys in the video at 15:53...





« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 03:21:45 am by Veramacor »
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27924
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2010, 07:43:17 am »
Dave also had a useful subliminal message for fanboys in the video at 15:53...

LOL!
oops!

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27924
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2010, 07:56:33 am »
I hope that this won't happen to Fluke, but when I see something like that waterproofing o-ring it just makes it look like their intent is to sell a gimmick, rather than a real advancement.

Well, I can assure you it works and it good enough for the intended job.
Maybe the trade-off was a full size traditional o-ring would have made the product even bigger than it already is.
I think they have done an acceptable job with the waterproofing.
In some ways I kind of see their method as an "advancement", in that they are able to achieve such good waterproofing using non-traditional techniques.

Of course it's not fully waterproof and water will eventually get in if you leave it under long enough. To do true waterproofing requires not only a quality o-ring and surfaces, but full grease application as well.
This is why I didn't bother doing traditional testing of the waterproofing by sticking it in static depths of water for long periods of time until it failed, I saw that as boring and kinda pointless. Instead I just had fun with it in a known tough environment and it survived without an issue, even with the pinched o-ring seal I found.

Dave.
 

Offline PetrosA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 625
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2010, 10:36:10 am »
I hope that this won't happen to Fluke, but when I see something like that waterproofing o-ring it just makes it look like their intent is to sell a gimmick, rather than a real advancement.

Well, I can assure you it works and it good enough for the intended job.
Maybe the trade-off was a full size traditional o-ring would have made the product even bigger than it already is.
I think they have done an acceptable job with the waterproofing.
In some ways I kind of see their method as an "advancement", in that they are able to achieve such good waterproofing using non-traditional techniques.

Of course it's not fully waterproof and water will eventually get in if you leave it under long enough. To do true waterproofing requires not only a quality o-ring and surfaces, but full grease application as well.
This is why I didn't bother doing traditional testing of the waterproofing by sticking it in static depths of water for long periods of time until it failed, I saw that as boring and kinda pointless. Instead I just had fun with it in a known tough environment and it survived without an issue, even with the pinched o-ring seal I found.

Dave.

You have a point there, Dave. I'm probably oversensitive to changes in marketing for the reasons I mentioned, but I should give Fluke the benefit of the doubt for now. I'll be awaiting part II of your review impatiently!

Thanks!
I miss my home I miss my porch, porch
 

walterdelbono

  • Guest
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 12:33:49 pm »


what an ugly component it seem like it's been written by hand...

jajaj...

 

walterdelbono

  • Guest
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 12:38:34 pm »

it's amazing when you start to think about all the things that could fail in the production process of a product like this...

:)
 

Offline PetrosA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 625
  • Country: us
SAFETY NOTE
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 01:41:03 pm »
I saw in the comments to the video that someone (Johannes) suggested testing the meter under water. I'm sure Dave won't do anything that dangerous, but for any of you who are maybe less well versed in the dangers of electricity, hooking up a multimeter to any kinds of voltage above approx. 30VAC or 45VDC with the meter submerged or even floating would be a very dangerous thing to do. Even this multimeter with it's IP67 rating would be a hazard if the test leads were energized in water, since the rating doesn't apply to the test lead jack, only to the INTERIOR of the meter itself. Dangerous current could leak into whatever water container you "tested" this in. All kinds of nasty consequences could ensue depending on the mineral levels of the water you placed the meter into. Just DON'T DO IT.
I miss my home I miss my porch, porch
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27924
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2010, 07:26:53 pm »
In practice the water actually confuses the optical input alert function, so it actually thinks you have the probe plugged into the AMPS jack and it beeps and flashes at you (but still reads).

I've been told Fluke disable the optical sense circuit when displaying the meter at trade shows where they show it working underwater.

Yes, all safety ratings are gone out the window once it is immersed.

Dave.
 

Offline Veramacor

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 111
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2010, 12:55:46 am »

I have to agree that multimeters and water don't mix!  Any sailors here?

Apparently this story is true.

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html

The lethal 9 Volt!

 

Pradipta

  • Guest
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2010, 06:09:59 am »
IP67 translates to IP6x: Totally protected against dust and IPx7: Protected against the effect of immersion between 15cm and 1m
If you have not already noticed, the Fluke official demonstration video shows 'the water actually confuses the optical input alert function, so it actually thinks you have the probe plugged into the AMPS jack and it beeps and flashes at you'.
I much prefer the sealing strategy of the GM Metrahit, though it does not boast IP rated protections.
 

Offline jimmc

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 268
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 08:12:53 am »
Warning off topic rant...

What a load of rubbish that Darwin award is.
Looking at the circuit of a Simpson 260 here http://www.simpson260.com/downloads/simpson_260-6p_theory_of_operation.pdf
The 9 volt battery is only used on the Ohms x 10,000 range and then there is at least 114k in series with it.
So the maximum current is limited to 9/114,000 = 79uA !!! Not the 90mA they claim.

Jim
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 08:16:41 am by jimmc »
 

Offline Ferroto

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 287
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2010, 03:44:19 am »

I have to agree that multimeters and water don't mix!  Any sailors here?

Apparently this story is true.

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html

The lethal 9 Volt!



I just emailed Jamie Heinemann
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12731
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2010, 07:32:33 pm »

I have to agree that multimeters and water don't mix!  Any sailors here?

Apparently this story is true.

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html

The lethal 9 Volt!



Yikes never thought my multimeter could kill someone
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline jahonen

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1045
  • Country: fi
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2010, 08:52:09 pm »

I have to agree that multimeters and water don't mix!  Any sailors here?

Apparently this story is true.

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html

The lethal 9 Volt!



Yikes never thought my multimeter could kill someone

If you have a multimeter with a 9 volt battery and another one, can you measure the current it puts out in ohms range? I'm just curious.

Regards,
Janne
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27924
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2010, 12:06:33 am »
The torture test of the 28-II is complete and the edited video is in the can, shot over two weekends. Should be up tomorrow. Boy it was certainly FUN!
And I got out of the lab for a change!

Dave.
 

Online mzacharias

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 531
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2010, 12:05:22 am »

I have to agree that multimeters and water don't mix!  Any sailors here?

Apparently this story is true.

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html

The lethal 9 Volt!




Doesn't look right to me. A Simpson Series 6 and above using a 9 volt battery only uses it for the Rx10K range, resulting in a short-circuit current in the low microamps. Even a 5P military version only uses it's 15 volt battery for the Rx10K range.
Now the 1.5 volt battery could maybe provide up to 15 or 20 milliamps through 100 ohms internal body resistance depending on the position of the ohms zero potentiometer.
That could conceivably cause fibrillation in a sensitive individual...


Mark Z.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3526
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2011, 11:58:37 pm »
Quote
waterproofing o-ring


Is there any info about the time frame that those o-ring should be replaced , or serviced ?

 

Offline tekfan

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 385
  • Country: si
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2011, 06:55:00 am »

I have to agree that multimeters and water don't mix!  Any sailors here?

Apparently this story is true.

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html

The lethal 9 Volt!


Doesn't look right to me. A Simpson Series 6 and above using a 9 volt battery only uses it for the Rx10K range, resulting in a short-circuit current in the low microamps. Even a 5P military version only uses it's 15 volt battery for the Rx10K range.
Now the 1.5 volt battery could maybe provide up to 15 or 20 milliamps through 100 ohms internal body resistance depending on the position of the ohms zero potentiometer.
That could conceivably cause fibrillation in a sensitive individual...


Mark Z.

When I was about 5, I once stuck two probes in the wall outlet (Europe so 230 VAC) trying to get a model train to go. Then I touched the probes. One in each hand. I received a very nasty shock but immediately let go and everything was OK.

More recently I cut my finger somehow and the alligator clips going from the 30V, 3A power supply touched the wound. It hurt like someone was rubbing salt into my finger but no smoke or grilled sausage finger.
One can never have enough oscilloscopes.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3526
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2011, 12:37:41 am »
Well I have to admit publicly  :)  that I have start to love my Fluke 28 Series II .
I have it for few months, and it is an worthy asset.

But as single unit , its not perfect with out the extra Fluke probe set,
known as "Pin & Socket Adapter Set" TP88


With out it , troubleshooting heavily populated PCB's with mixed in height components ,
or measurements on tiny metal contacts , are very difficult to do.  

The only thing that bothered me in action, was the "auto backlight off timer",
but at the end, if you educate your self with the information of how to disable it,
this problem ends . :)

And I will totally agree with Dave, about the use of the free space on the tilt bail,
that it must be used as location for writing on it , one quick reference about the Power-up options.
Or else you have to remember all of them by hart.
Or you must always carrying with you, an copy of the page 14 of the Users Manual .

Also the Fluke 28II , damaged my internal enthusiasm about multimeter's ,
like seeking all the time the market, for the ideal DMM.
Simply because it is the ideal DMM for me.

And if there is a point that I will agree with Dave 101%,
is that the magnetic hanger, it must become an standard supplied for "free" accessory.  

It did prove the value of it as idea, when I had to troubleshot one small electrical problem on my motorcycle.
And I did use the hanger system TPAK, not the one with the magnetic end, but the second belt "the loop hanger" ,
so to mount the 28II at the handle bar, and by this positioning I had it next to me , with out interfering with the limited space for tools around one motorcycle.

And so if the magnetic hanger works for metallic panels ,
and the loop hanger for pipes. ( add to this list and the handle bar of an motorcycle)

Well as synopsis , the 28II can :
Fly  -  ( ToolPak  ( TPAK) Magnetic Hanger &  loop hanger)
Swim - float   ( IP67) + Fluke design
Fall - drops    ( IP67)
Shine- glow at dark   ( buttons emitting light with no electricity)  
Better beeper than the 87V ( my opinion - my ears like it more)
Micro electronics   ( always with the use of TP88 )


Another thing that I like it on the 28II over the 87V ,
was that tilt bail , looks identical with the 87V but the 28II has more weight,
and more square bottom base, and are lot more stable about standing in the bench.

And so this base that I did for the 87V, has less importance for the 28II  http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=455.0

And the bottom line is that only my imagination can stop me,
from other possible ways of using this meter.

After six months + few days of ownership,
I admit it, yes the 28II it is an object that deserves love .  ;D
( as everything worthy )






« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 12:55:27 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf