Author Topic: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown  (Read 59066 times)

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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #125 on: October 23, 2014, 08:36:03 pm »
Well, it would appear that there is a bit of a frenzy currently occurring in regards to this new gadget and from what I saw Dave gave it his approval.   :-+

And I must admit that another DSO on my bench was hardly a priority until I saw Dave gut it and others having their way with other similar models on the tube thingo.

Here in AUS they are currently listed at $439.00 + 10% GST, so around $483.00 and I only found one supplier here on google called Eyou (never dealt with them) and then I recalled Dave mention Emona (have dealt with them), so when I have finished reading all of the associated downloaded literature in relation to the product I will share the love and Emona will get my money.

Muttley

PS; to those who have one;
1. Can the soft button icons be removed for de-clutter.
2. Can it read Rs 485 with a 232-485 converter.
3. What happens when you plug a mouse into the USB.

 :-//





« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 09:33:27 am by Muttley Snickers »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #126 on: October 23, 2014, 08:46:13 pm »
PS; to those who have one;
1. Can the soft button icons be removed for de-clutter.

I don't think so, but they're hardly "clutter". You use them all the time.

2. Can it read Rs 485 with a 232-485 converter.

RS485 is a hardware specification so, "no".

It can read RS232 though.


3. What happens when you plug a mouse into the USB.

No idea, but I'm betting you don't get a mouse cursor on screen.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 09:41:25 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #127 on: October 23, 2014, 09:00:07 pm »
Wow,
3 strikes,
I think under the rules with you as referee
that puts me out.   :-DD

Muttley
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #128 on: October 23, 2014, 09:49:22 pm »
Wow,
3 strikes,
I think under the rules with you as referee
that puts me out.   :-DD

Muttley

What did you want? A medal?


 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #129 on: October 23, 2014, 10:57:38 pm »
For those still wondering whether the DS1000Z has a 12-bit ADC which it uses in High Res mode, the answer is most definitely no (big surprise  ;) ).

I posted a comparison of High Res mode on the DS1000Z vs DS2000 here; there is quite a major difference between them.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 11:03:04 pm by marmad »
 

Offline kwass

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #130 on: October 24, 2014, 12:23:46 am »

3. What happens when you plug a mouse into the USB.

No idea, but I'm betting you don't get a mouse cursor on screen.

You're correct, nothing happens.  I've tried various other devices as well, including a small USB 2.0 hard drive (NTFS format), but the only thing that will work are thumb drives on the front USB port.
-katie
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #131 on: October 24, 2014, 01:11:24 am »
3. What happens when you plug a mouse into the USB.

No idea, but I'm betting you don't get a mouse cursor on screen.
You're correct, nothing happens. 

Darn.

What we need is somebody who's good at firmware hacking to unlock that feature. It would be awesome to use this 'scope with a mouse.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 01:13:11 am by Fungus »
 

Offline bitblt

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #132 on: October 24, 2014, 04:51:12 am »
Just today someone posted on ebay some Rigol DS1054Z for $399 Buy-it-Now, with free shipping in the US only.  There is limited quantity so anyone interested might want to act quickly.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #133 on: October 24, 2014, 05:19:51 am »
The all-discrete frontend really impresses me. Especially since it's 2014 and you could just buy a LMH6518 and call it a day. Way more expensive though...

It is more expensive than a discrete design at 100 MHz but that may not be true at 200 MHz like in the DS2000A series.  The emitter networks shown in the schematic Dave reverse engineered imply that they had to push pretty hard to get a workable discrete 100 MHz design.

Quote
I cannot find a comparator for the trigger, so it seems like they're doing digital trigger based on the ADC samples. When sampling on 4 channels ad 250MSa/s each with 100MHz bandwidth, that's barely over nyquist. Interesting to see what trigger jitter is like...

I would like to see this as well.  I would be one of the first things I would test.

Ok, so if the hardware on the DS1054z and the DS1074z are identical, then why would anyone buy the DS1074z for $ 186 USD more? Because that is really not worth the extra 20MHz, plus after the upgrade/hack they are both at 100MHz.  Personally I think Rigol made a bit mistake releasing this scope at this price, they should have made it $ 499 USD, but I am not complaining.

There might be calibration or grading differences.  If transient response calibration was done in software, then the lower bandwidth models may perform differently than higher bandwidth ones when hacked.
 

Offline edavid

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #134 on: October 24, 2014, 05:33:32 am »
Just today someone posted on ebay some Rigol DS1054Z for $399 Buy-it-Now, with free shipping in the US only.  There is limited quantity so anyone interested might want to act quickly.

It's listed by tequipment.  There's no reason to buy it from them on eBay when you can get the EEVblog discount by buying directly.
 

Offline bitblt

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #135 on: October 24, 2014, 06:04:18 am »
It's listed by tequipment.  There's no reason to buy it from them on eBay when you can get the EEVblog discount by buying directly.

You are correct they are listed by tequipment.  Some people might prefer to use PayPal Credit for 6 months no interest.

How does one go about getting an EEVBlog discount, and how much is the discount?  Thank you.

Never mind I found the tequipment thread.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 06:28:29 am by bitblt »
 

Offline eneuro

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #136 on: October 25, 2014, 09:00:50 am »
Nice to see what is inside thing one wants to buy  :-+

Just thinking why they made such waved tracks on PCB like there?

It looks like such track will be much longer, but its snake shape  :wtf: it does there?
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #137 on: October 25, 2014, 09:18:34 am »
Probably they want all the tracks to have the same length.
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Offline hammy

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #138 on: October 25, 2014, 09:21:39 am »
Have a look for: "Meanders in traces"
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #139 on: October 25, 2014, 11:04:03 am »
Just thinking why they made such waved tracks on PCB like there?

It looks like such track will be much longer, but its snake shape  :wtf: it does there?

That is to match the length of delay between signal traces.  That IC is a Hynix H5PS5162GFR DDR3 SDRAM which is 512 Mbits arranged as 64M x 8 so 64 Mbytes.  I am fuzzy about the exact requirements for DDR3 but it looks like they want significantly less than 100 picoseconds worth of skew on the interface which is significantly less than an inch of trace length difference.

 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #140 on: October 25, 2014, 11:36:42 am »
That IC is a Hynix H5PS5162GFR DDR3 SDRAM which is 512 Mbits arranged as 64M x 8 so 64 Mbytes.

32M X 16. Rigol is using 16-bit DRAM in all their UltraVision DSOs.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #141 on: October 25, 2014, 12:41:27 pm »
That IC is a Hynix H5PS5162GFR DDR3 SDRAM which is 512 Mbits arranged as 64M x 8 so 64 Mbytes.

32M X 16. Rigol is using 16-bit DRAM in all their UltraVision DSOs.

How annoying.  Hynix puts both parts in the same datasheet and abbreviates the part numbers but you have to find the organization on the page with the packages instead of the features or description.  When I was reading it I was thinking, "This datasheet is terrible."
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #142 on: October 26, 2014, 02:19:20 am »
No, I am not talking about the High Res Mode, I was talking about the specification (batronix.com page) that I read. It says
Quote
    Vertical:     Digital Oscilloscope Rigol DS1054Z
    Analog digital converter (A/D) :    12 Bit at >= 5 µs/div  ,   8 Bit at >= 2 µs/div
I know, when I read a ADC of a µC, I can read it in 8 Bit  fast Mode because I read only the upper Bits and sampling is faster, or I can read 12 Bit Mode, it is slower but I have 12Bit resolution. I expect the same in the DS1054Z, because of the spezification.

BTW, just to keep buyers correctly informed: this spec from the Batronix site is completely wrong. Not only is it not listed on Rigol's websites, it's not supported by the documentation specs:

MSO/DS2000A manual:

"High Resolution: 12 bits of resolution when >=5 us/div @ 1 GSa/s (or >=10 us/div @ 500 MSa/s).

MSO/DS1000Z manual:

"High Resolution: 12 bit (max)"

In other words, unspecified. After numerous tests, I've yet to identify exactly when the DS1000Z might be averaging to 12 bits, although I suspect, if it actually does it, it's only at much slower timebases (e.g. >= 1ms).
 

Offline tom66

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #143 on: October 26, 2014, 06:07:00 am »
Nice to see what is inside thing one wants to buy  :-+

Just thinking why they made such waved tracks on PCB like there?

It looks like such track will be much longer, but its snake shape  :wtf: it does there?

Standard on DDR layouts.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #144 on: October 26, 2014, 09:10:51 am »
Why is buying the 1052E crazy? Its now available for around half the price of the 1054Z

Where can you buy the DS1052E at that price? Which distributor? Link to their website?

When is Rigol going to drop the price on the DS1052E? Might come in handy as a spare backup unit.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #145 on: October 26, 2014, 01:11:07 pm »
Christmas ?
 

Offline eneuro

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Re: EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown
« Reply #146 on: October 27, 2014, 05:28:44 am »
That is to match the length of delay between signal traces.
I do not play with high frequency circuits designs, so it was very interesting and it is  :phew:
PDF: Meander delay compensation in high-speed digital multilayer designs

The key to gogle it was proper naming it "meander", not "snake"   ;)

Really nice teardown and next reverse engineering video of multilayered PCB  of this quite nice scope awersome  :-+


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