Author Topic: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z  (Read 29480 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« on: October 22, 2014, 04:37:35 PM »
Dave shows you how to reverse engineering a PCB to get the schematic. In this case the new Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope.
How does the discrete transistor analog front end and the software bandwidth limiting work?
How do you decode SMD transistor codes?
How does it compare to the old Rigol DS1052E?
Dave also discusses the low voltage ohms function of a mulitmeter, how it's useful, and how to test your multimeter to see if it will have any issues with in-circuit testing.

Schematic:
http://www.eevblog.com/files/Rigol-DS1054Z-Schematic-FrontEnd.pdf
http://www.eevblog.com/files/Rigol-DS1054Z-Schematic-DiffAmp.pdf
DS1052E Schematic: http://rigol.codenaschen.de/index.php/Schematics

Links:
SMD codes: http://www.sos.sk/pdf/SMD_Catalog.pdf
www.digikey.com.au/Web Export/Supplier Content/MCC_353/PDF/MCC_SMD_Marking_Codes.pdf

Datasheets:
MMBFJ309L JFET http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/MMBFJ309LT1-D.PDF
http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD8510_8512_8513.pdf
BAV199 Diode http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/BAV199.pdf
BC856 http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/BC856_BC857_BC858.pdf
Fujitsu FTR-B3 Relay http://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/MICRO/fcai/relays/ftr-b3.pdf
Cosmo solid state relay: http://www.cosmo-ic.com/object/products/KAQY214.pdf
TL072: http://diodes.com/datasheets/TL072.pdf
74HC4053: http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/74HC_HCT4053.pdf
TLV274 Precision Quad Opamp: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlv274.pdf
AD5207 Digital POT: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD5207.pdf

 

Offline phenol

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2014, 05:27:53 PM »
Eventhough J309 is a symmetric device (D and S are interchangeable), it should be drawn (i think) as a source follower in that particular circuit.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2014, 05:34:58 PM »
Excellent episode.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline gnif

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 05:58:38 PM »
Had me looking for a rattle on my desk at the end of that video... then I realised that every time you put your arm on the desk, there it was :palm:
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Offline RobertoLG

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2014, 06:00:55 PM »
 

Offline digital

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2014, 07:34:30 PM »
Dave thank you for an outstanding educational video the time you spent on doing so is well appreciated.Regards to all Waynee
 

Offline tom66

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 07:47:23 PM »
Hang on - on 1X probe I've shoved 200V DC pulse train (@150kHz) into my DS1074Z and I didn't break it on low attenuation band (<200mV/div.) Wouldn't that cause 75R resistor & BAV99 to fail?
 

Offline mux

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2014, 08:03:47 PM »
So basically: desolder 6 transistors, replace one with a short and you've got the 100MHz model. (per channel of course)
 

Offline SpiderElectronics

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2014, 08:14:09 PM »
>So basically: desolder 6 transistors, replace one with a short and you've got the 100MHz model. (per channel of course)
Not necessarily - the software may do other things based on its stored knowledge of which model you have.
 

Offline ovi_mv

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2014, 08:58:35 PM »
Excellent technique, very punctual description of  the method.
Thank you Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2014, 09:23:10 PM »
Dave thank you for an outstanding educational video the time you spent on doing so is well appreciated.Regards to all Waynee

Thanks.
This one did take a while.
 

Offline rf-design

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 09:33:45 PM »
I have doubts that the RE is correct!

1. The two top NPN in the DIFF DRIVER schematic get no positive base current.

2. The DC-path from the input in the mode w/o attentuator only see 222k+265k instead of 1000k

Because that is a working instrument the RE must be wrong.
 

Offline SPRX

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 09:34:02 PM »
Well Executed  :-+

Thanks Dave
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2014, 09:49:53 PM »
Because that is a working instrument the RE must be wrong.

Almost certainly. I haven't checked any of it. My goal was to get the basic topology for the bandwidth limiting, and to show the process.
 

Offline gnif

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 10:12:57 PM »
The in circuit testing info is great! I have often lifed parts to check values, I had no idea that if I kept the voltage low enough on the meter I could get pretty good results even still.
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Offline dr.diesel

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2014, 10:15:24 PM »
The 1054Zed is gonna be very popular, this REing out of the gate is going to really help the community  :-+

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2014, 10:28:35 PM »
The in circuit testing info is great! I have often lifed parts to check values, I had no idea that if I kept the voltage low enough on the meter I could get pretty good results even still.

Depends on the rest of the surrounding circuit. But at least you won't turn on PN junctions (diodes, protection diodes in IC's, transistor, IC inputs etc) with a low test voltage.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2014, 11:54:02 PM »
Interesting that they appear to have planned the 50MHz version from the start.

(nb. Over in the DS1054Z there are some measurements that show 50MHz filter to be quite sharp, the general opinion was that it was a software filter....but here it is in hardware since day 1)

 

Offline German_EE

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2014, 12:38:00 AM »
Somewhere in deepest China an engineer will be cursing Mr Jones this morning. A bandwidth limit using a few transistors as switches should be easy to bypass.
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2014, 01:04:20 AM »
Somewhere in deepest China an engineer will be cursing Mr Jones this morning. A bandwidth limit using a few transistors as switches should be easy to bypass.

You know how I can tell you (and that other guy who figured out a hardware mod) haven't read the "DS1054Z" thread....?   :-//



« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 01:39:59 AM by Fungus »
 

Offline dentaku

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2014, 01:19:25 AM »
It's great to see someone explain how they go about doing stuff like this.

I think you said 1052Z instead of 1054Z a few times in the video though.
 

Offline Orange

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2014, 01:30:42 AM »
>So basically: desolder 6 transistors, replace one with a short and you've got the 100MHz model. (per channel of course)
Not necessarily - the software may do other things based on its stored knowledge of which model you have.
Not needed at all, use a keygen, generate a 100MHz key and you are done, no hardware mod necessary.

@ Dave, The scope also has an calibrate modus, this must be connected somewhere along the analog chain per channel.
BTW very much appreciated VIDEO, can become handy if someone blows-up an input channel  :)
 

Online ElektroQuark

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2014, 01:35:43 AM »
Those Rigols will be out of stock very soon.  :-DD

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2014, 01:37:28 AM »
Those Rigols will be out of stock very soon.

"Soon"?    :-DD

(luckily I ordered mine the day after it was launched...)

 

Offline robrenz

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Re: EEVblog #675 - How To Reverse Engineer A Rigol DS1054Z
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2014, 02:38:49 AM »
Great tips Dave, much appreciated! :-+


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