EEVblog #701 - Keysight 3000T Oscilloscope Review

[Rutger]

Great review, but all I can think is; what happened to the review of the new Rigol DS1000Z...  Did Keysight 'bribe' you not the review it?

[rolycat]

Great review, but all I can think is; what happened to the review of the new Rigol DS1000Z...  Did Keysight 'bribe' you not the review it?

I'm sure the DS1054Z review is in the works - Dave mentioned that much of it has already been shot - but it has no time constraints. This one had to be synchronized with the new scope's release date in order for Dave to score his 'world first'.

[jlmoon]

Oh, the "Wants" is going to kill me!

[Omicron]

So, how does one reconcile this quote from the data sheet:

The 3000T X-Series has excellent signal integrity, including full bandwidth to 1 mV/div

With this quote from the same data sheet:

1 mV/div and 2 mV/div are a magnification of 4 mV/div setting.

If you want to make a fair comparison to another scope then use the real ranges and not the software magnified fake ones! I'm surprised Keysight didn't get called out on such an obvious marketing wank...

And when we're on the topic of bandwidth: why not a comparison of a 1GHz signal being measured with the MDO3000 and the 3000T using the supplied probes? The Tek comes with 1GHz probes compared to the 500MHz ones Keysight provides. What difference does this make in practice? Surely a topic worth investigating!

[mikeselectricstuff]

What does Sagan think of the touchscreen?

[EEVblog]

And when we're on the topic of bandwidth: why not a comparison of a 1GHz signal being measured with the MDO3000 and the 3000T using the supplied probes? The Tek comes with 1GHz probes compared to the 500MHz ones Keysight provides. What difference does this make in practice? Surely a topic worth investigating!

There are countless topics "worth investigating" when comparing scopes, that is just one of them.

[EEVblog]

Great review, but all I can think is; what happened to the review of the new Rigol DS1000Z...  Did Keysight 'bribe' you not the review it?

Don't be ridiculous. And I've explained why a dozen times.

[max_torque]

Looks like a great scope, except maybe for the slightly pricey (as usual) options list, but i just can't get my head around "Keysight"  It's like someone who sells toilet paper, or printer toner or something. Awful just awful! 


(i'd love to know the marketing reasons behind simply chucking over 40 years of company heritage in the bin for a new "shiny" name??)

[jpb]

(i'd love to know the marketing reasons behind simply chucking over 40 years of company heritage in the bin for a new "shiny" name??)

It was a case of bits of the company splitting away and they couldn't both keep the same name so the measurement group had to come up with a different one. I think there was a similar story behind Agilent being created from HP when that happened.

[Fsck]

a refresh of the 3k series make you wonder if they'll refresh the 2k series as well.

[EEVblog]

a refresh of the 3k series make you wonder if they'll refresh the 2k series as well.

Perhaps.
But I doubt they would included touch, that adds extra hardware cost.
They could enable extra features on the 2000 though as they have done in the past. After all, that was the whole intention of these scopes from the get-go - build in the hardware and then enable once market pressures force you to.

[Howardlong]

(i'd love to know the marketing reasons behind simply chucking over 40 years of company heritage in the bin for a new "shiny" name??)

It was a case of bits of the company splitting away and they couldn't both keep the same name so the measurement group had to come up with a different one. I think there was a similar story behind Agilent being created from HP when that happened.

As you say, same thing happened 15 years ago. The sad thing is that HP became run by money men and women who had no idea how to run a business consistently, always looking for short term monthly and quarterly gains, they thought that being an accountant or a "banker" was enough without having to have a clue about the business.

The HP brand today is junk, particularly after their EDS takeover and more recently the pissing contest with Autonomy, it's become a race to the bottom. This is quite unlike Agilent who managed to maintain their reputation, as I hope Keysight will.

I am no fan of rebranding, and find the continual supposed added value from the branding, M&A and strategy MBA wankers to be nothing short of money for old rope in almost all circumstances. I am sure I'll still be referring to Keysight and Agilent as HP for many years yet, keeping the memory of the good years, when reputation was everything, and the bean counters and bankers remained behind their desks and steered clear of the boardroom.

[alimirjamali]

Still no HW USB serial decoding?
Still no HDMI out (+LAN) option?
Can you play Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja on the touch screen if you are bored?

[Bob S]

I wonder if there will be any more firmware updates for the 3000x now that is in out. As for the cost being the same as the 3000x, yes it is currently the same but I think they just bumped the price of the 3000x. Net result, (if I am correct) is that it is more expensive than the 3000x of a few days ago.

[Smokey]

Wonder why they are making Dave send back the newer model.  If they were going to let him keep one to use in videos, you would think they would want it to be the newest model.

[AndyC_772]

The 3000X 'A' is certainly more expensive now than it was a short while back if you include the cost of optional features. The 'ultimate scope' upgrade was a great offer, but now (I presume) they're back to charging hundreds of $$$ for each and every serial protocol decoder, the whole range just became much worse value

[coppice]

I wonder if there will be any more firmware updates for the 3000x now that is in out.

Maybe they'll follow the Microsoft approach of continuing to update the old product until its so slow you desperately want the new one. 

[EEVblog]

but now (I presume) they're back to charging hundreds of $$$ for each and every serial protocol decoder, the whole range just became much worse value

Yes, seems like that, and not surprising from a corporate point of view. They have a new product that they think trumps the competition so they think they can charge a motza for it.
The MDO3000 though is a real threat with their now free spectrum analyser. I haven't look at Rigol's or others in that price range, but it's probably a battle of those big two.

[VK5RC]

My guess re "Keysight" is that a fair bit of their PROFIT comes from Military/Defence sales; the low to mid price section of the market I suspect has very little profit margin.
To me the name 'smells' of a marketing study merging Key as in security and Sight as in the sense of either predicting or gunsight both with strong military type associations.

The touch screen looks nice but I won't be looking to upgrade my DSO3054 until they have an order or two more memory points, being able to look in detail at both mS and nS timescales from the same triggered event would be handy. The MTBF figure is a little reassuring as I presume a lot of hardware is common with the 'old' 3000 series.

[PinheadBE]

"Don't turn it on, take it apart!"

I want to see the guts of the beast!

[WVL_KsZeN]

I wonder if the T has a faster processor or more memory then the X. It would be interesting if the FFT from the T could make an appearance on the X. I guess it doesn't make sense commercially though..

[DJ]

All the way back on p30 of the 37 page (!) data sheet, it notes the 8" screen has a resolution of 800 x 480.

They also continue to benchmark against similarly-priced Tek, when I suspect their real competition is much less expensive Chinese brands.

My guess is keysight will gradually lean towards high-end stuff. As US .mil spending wanes, and Chinese .mil expands, they may lose that too.

Still stumped that Keysight doesn't do just the box, and couple it to a tablet with a decent display, a la Samsung Galaxy Note 12.2

[EEVblog]

They also continue to benchmark against similarly-priced Tek, when I suspect their real competition is much less expensive Chinese brands.

The MDO3000 is huge competition for them.
The Rigol 4000 is also a threat, but at that high end price range of the 500MHz models the majority would still opt for the "big three" names.
Rigol don't have a matching 1GHz model.

On the 2000 X-Series, yes Rigol is their main competition they are worried about.

Still stumped that Keysight doesn't do just the box, and couple it to a tablet with a decent display, a la Samsung Galaxy Note 12.2

Noone would buy it.

[Smokey]

Now what would be interesting would be an "Acquisition Box" and then a separate "Remove display AND physical button/knob front panel".  So pretty much take the front panel off the scope and let you carry it around leaving the acquisition hardware on the bench.  That would be pretty cool.
That could be third party hardware too.  Just make an API for the actions and anyone can make a rotary encoder knob board.

[DJ]

It's crazy to pay $5k and up for low-res touchscreen instruments. Particularly when iPad/Galaxy displays are amortized over millions of units. Make the acq box look like the bottom and right hwlf of the scope, and cradle a world-class touch display in the upper left quadrant. I love the XGA in my 7000 series Agilent, and would never downsize nor down-res.

They are making apps to control the scopes from tablets anyway.

Enough room on my 12.2 Galaxy to display both high res scope and plenty of other stuff (34461a/SDM3055 multimeter charts/5162 AWG display). Not to mention connectivity etc built in.


While Tek and Keysight play Chevy and Ford, the Toyotas and Hondas (think 70's, when their qualities were still hit and miss) are gobbling up the low end, with sights on moving up. History does have that habit of repeating.