http://opalkelly.com/

Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 1531302 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23755
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« on: June 05, 2015, 01:02:54 PM »
Dave introduces his Product Baloney Detection Kit, and offers a step-by-step how-to tutorial guide to debunking wild marketing claims on tech products.
In this case the Batteriser, a boost converter that fits around ordinary AA batteries which claims to increase the battery life by up to 800%.
Does it live up to the hype?
http://www.batteriser.com/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html

Another dunking here on the Neurologica blog:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/batteriser-cool-tech-or-scam/

« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 02:31:43 PM by EEVblog »
 
The following users thanked this post: r07

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23755
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 01:22:03 PM »
Sorry about the length  :( you know I planed 10 minutes  ;D
 

Offline wilfred

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4173
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2015, 01:29:16 PM »
Sorry about the length  :( you know I planed 10 minutes  ;D

You could make an abridged version of  3-5 minutes if you just wanted to explain why the claims of 800% are exagerated.
This subject along with a short video would be useful to people who are not EEVBlog followers.

But only one graph permitted.
 

Offline tombi

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 01:34:44 PM »
BOOBIES on the calculator.  :-+
 

Offline station240

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 575
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2015, 01:58:20 PM »
I figured out the losses in the boost convertor would cancel out the gain of lost battery capacity, before Dave got to that point. Couldn't stop laughing.
Battery capacity 80% => 100%
Efficiency 100% => 80% (or less)
Losses 20% => 20% (or worse)

100% efficient at converting your money into junk you don't need.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 02:03:15 PM by station240 »
 

Offline SL4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1908
  • Country: au
  • There's more value if you figure it out yourself!
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 02:24:15 PM »
Dave -
I'd suggest you add a 20 second introduction before the main video that summarises three or four key points for both arguments - so you can say you've been objective in the best and worst cases.    Up-to, as much as, could, might, should  -- are all 'weasel words'; that have no legal standing!

On the up-side, you've 'possibly' saved them 'up to' $millions in insurance and damage claims to users that installed the product in the wrong products, or the wrong way around!

Edited 18:00 - less word!
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 06:05:41 PM by SL4P »
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Offline calexanian

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1657
  • Country: us
    • Alex-Tronix
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2015, 02:52:39 PM »
That prof should not be allowed to teach anymore..  Clearly he is not teaching critical thinking to his students if he cannot practice it himself.
Charles Alexanian
Alex-Tronix Control Systems
 

Offline Razor512

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 118
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2015, 04:12:22 PM »
If the product comes out, can you test it to measure the max current output?

While the claim is complete BS, I do like the boost conversion for use in unregulated flash lights.

PS, some of the cheap china market wireless mice will run down to 0.9V with no problem.

I would like to see a version with an adjustable cutoff to work with rechargeable batteries.

PS, I prefer the longer form videos.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 04:18:48 PM by Razor512 »
 

Offline Barny

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • Country: at
  • I'm from Austria, not Australia ;)
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2015, 04:26:44 PM »
I knew ONE product which cut of at 1.4V to 1.3V.
Its the ca. 10 to 15 year old digital camera.
It dont run at accumulators because of the drop out voltage.
This thing eats bateries like crazy.

But this product wouldnt be useable because 2 things:
* The clip dont fit in the housing.
* The current this camera is needet is up to multible amps.
 

Offline NigelSmith

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2015, 04:44:39 PM »
Hello everybody,

Firstly i'm a big fan of EEVblog and Dave's unique presenting style!

Watched the video this morning and I have to agree with nearly all points presented with one exception, where Dave comments regarding the efficiency of the boost converter circuitry being at best 90% - 95% efficient (the losses becoming heat) and at worst could be down to as little efficiency as only 50% depending upon application.

Dave states that in some applications this device could actually reduce battery life of a product, well theoretically yes it could, but only if you put the stupid batteriser on the battery in the first place!

As long as you only use it once the device has decided that the battery is dead the batteriser can only extend battery life and not actually reduce it at all!

I have made no actual calculations but I personally can't imagine it ever getting more than an extra 10% capacity out of a battery, I can't imagine anywhere near their delusional 800%.

(I have no specific financial interest in the product or its development company, just thought I should point out this obvious fact)

I know this will make the product more awkward as it will need to be carried around separately and then used once the battery is deemed to be flat as opposed to just using it on a new battery, but even their bullshit promotional video shows it being used this way.

Finally no specific comments on the size of the thing, granted it might be very small and thin... but it will definitely extend the length of the battery by, I'm guessing 0.5 - 1.0 mm maybe more, well I have several products where the battery contacts are a tight fit on a standard (non batterised) battery, so how many products this stupid device will actually fit into remains to be seen.

In summary I still agree with Dave, the product isn't worth wasting any money on, but in one area I think he was a little harsh. Quite obviously someone has wasted a huge amount of time and money developing this ridiculous product, so naturally, they have now produced some marketing 'hype' tosh to try and sell as many as possible!

Keep up the good work Dave!

Nigel
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1462
  • Country: au
  • Don't Laugh, I'm Serious.
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2015, 04:52:51 PM »
I have a test device if you need it, Canon Powershor SX-100is, drops out at 1.42 volt per cell, hardly works at all on rechargeables, specs say around 140 shots on alkaline and 400 on NMiH. Really Canon where did you get them there numbers from you stupid pack of morons. It's only saving grace is that it has an external power jack so I can still get some use out of it on a 18650. Works on the new Energiser Ultimate Lithium but only because the initial voltage is around 1.8 volt.

Good job Canon lost me forever. :--
I regain the unused 80 odd percent in my old AA Maglights and other toys.

Muttley
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 01:07:35 PM by Muttley Snickers »
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23755
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2015, 05:05:14 PM »
Watched the video this morning and I have to agree with nearly all points presented with one exception, where Dave comments regarding the efficiency of the boost converter circuitry being at best 90% - 95% efficient (the losses becoming heat) and at worst could be down to as little efficiency as only 50% depending upon application.

Pretty sure I mentioned that.

Quote
Dave states that in some applications this device could actually reduce battery life of a product, well theoretically yes it could, but only if you put the stupid batteriser on the battery in the first place!
As long as you only use it once the device has decided that the battery is dead the batteriser can only extend battery life and not actually reduce it at all!

They say on their website:
Quote
1. Extend Battery Life. Batteriser’s patented technology extends the life of your batteries up to 8x.
2. Works On Most “Used” Batteries Too. Take those batteries out of the trash and instantly extend their life up to 8x.

So it seems they envisage the main usage scenario to be used with new batteries.
If you don only use it with "dead" batteries to get some extra life, then there is certainly some benefit to that in probably the majority of cases.

Quote
Finally no specific comments on the size of the thing, granted it might be very small and thin... but it will definitely extend the length of the battery by, I'm guessing 0.5 - 1.0 mm maybe more, well I have several products where the battery contacts are a tight fit on a standard (non batterised) battery, so how many products this stupid device will actually fit into remains to be seen.

I'd love to see the finished product, and it would be intriguing to see how they have miniaturised the converter.
Guess we have to wait for the Indigogo campaign to order one?
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23755
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2015, 05:07:23 PM »
If the product comes out, can you test it to measure the max current output?

Yes, I'll order one when it comes out.
I'm curious to see its performance.
 

Offline SL4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1908
  • Country: au
  • There's more value if you figure it out yourself!
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2015, 05:08:33 PM »
I dunno, I think they'll try to productise it through crowd-funding - no open source sharing.
a company, university etc...
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23755
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2015, 05:13:07 PM »
I dunno, I think they'll try to productise it through crowd-funding

Yes, the article says they will be putting it on Indiegogo.
Not sure why they don't use Kickstarter? they obviously have a real prototype, so satisfies the requirement.
 

Offline SL4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1908
  • Country: au
  • There's more value if you figure it out yourself!
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2015, 05:16:03 PM »
Aah, I didn't see that.  Was it in the PCworld article - I didn't go into that.
That may dissuade them from legal paths, if they don't have 'real' money!
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23755
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2015, 05:23:02 PM »
Aah, I didn't see that.  Was it in the PCworld article - I didn't go into that.

Yes, the PC World article:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html
I'll back it when it goes live in late June. Delivery slated for September.
 

Offline janekm

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2015, 05:25:19 PM »
I dunno, I think they'll try to productise it through crowd-funding

Yes, the article says they will be putting it on Indiegogo.
Not sure why they don't use Kickstarter? they obviously have a real prototype, so satisfies the requirement.

Maybe they assume there must be more gullible "funders" on Indiegogo since there's more questionable projects to be found there? ;)
 

Offline SL4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1908
  • Country: au
  • There's more value if you figure it out yourself!
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2015, 05:26:56 PM »
Gotta say that I love the way you rip the heart out of these get-rich-quick shysters.
Soon you'll have them contacting you before they promote products - so they might catch fundamental flaws before they make fools of themselves!!
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23755
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2015, 05:31:04 PM »
Maybe they assume there must be more gullible "funders" on Indiegogo since there's more questionable projects to be found there? ;)

I think they'd do a lot better on Kickstarter. It's more credible than Indiegogo and has a much larger user base.
 

Offline SL4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1908
  • Country: au
  • There's more value if you figure it out yourself!
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2015, 05:32:02 PM »
Not any more - after your review!
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Offline daqq

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1062
  • Country: sk
    • My site
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2015, 05:32:36 PM »
Dave: I love these debunking videos of yours! Thanks!
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
+++Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23755
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2015, 05:36:17 PM »
Soon you'll have them contacting you before they promote products - so they might catch fundamental flaws before they make fools of themselves!!

I've already had quite a few crowd funding campaigns do that actually.
Batteroo are most welcome to send a pre-release one into the Mailbag segment.
I suspect the campaign, even on Indiegogo will be a winner. It's price point is just too compelling for people not to try it.
And it's likely true that you would get your money back in power saved if you used it on just dead batteries.
That doesn't stop the downsides of course, but many will look at it from just that perspective.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23755
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2015, 05:46:06 PM »
Not any more - after your review!

Nope, my video will amount to a hill of beans. Target audience for this product is Joe Average, and not electronics design people on my channel. Electronics people can instantly see the many downsides to it, so likely never would have bought it.
You wait, the campaign will go bangbusters.
Actually, I want it to get funded so I can actually get one to check out the miniaturisation and how they are doing that.

IMO they would have been far better off putting it in a clip on attachment for 9V batteries somehow . That is more of a problem than AA/AAA powered devices, and the batteries are more expensive. Plus potentially more room for bigger and better magnetics, less maximum current requirement, and no shorting problem.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 05:55:11 PM by EEVblog »
 

Offline SL4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1908
  • Country: au
  • There's more value if you figure it out yourself!
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2015, 06:01:13 PM »
When I first saw this thread, it reminded me of a gadget I intended to develop - primarily for kids toys... but almost anything that 'gets left on'...  exactly the same form factor.

A one-shot that turns a FET on with the power switch, and while 'in range' current consumption. (C)2005. MDC/SL4P

If the unit is idle, or over-current for more than a hard-coded period (e.g. idle 2 mins, over-current 5 secs), it shuts off until the power supply is recycled.
Save batteries and kids from grinding their toys to death!

Unfortunately, my situation has me dead in their water for the last few years - so these ideas are just a dream now.  I'll share if someone else's wants to do it!    Call me!
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf