EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[SL4P]

BIC also includes multi-lingual word processing and LH/RH use without modification.  What can Batteriser do?

[Smokey]

BIC also includes multi-lingual word processing and LH/RH use without modification.  What can Batteriser do?

Only speaking for myself here, but the left hand performance of the BIC is significantly worse than the right hand, which is also actually pretty terrible. 

Don't even get me started on the BIC's Spanish.....

[ccs46]

BIC also includes multi-lingual word processing and LH/RH use without modification.  What can Batteriser do?

Only speaking for myself here, but the left hand performance of the BIC is significantly worse than the right hand, which is also actually pretty terrible. 

Don't even get me started on the BIC's Spanish.....

Operator Error... (This will be Batterisers excuse to why their products don't work as said...)

[SL4P]

Just wondering whether Batteroo will include protection for multiple batterisers loaded in reverse polarity? 

[WN1X]

Just wondering whether Batteroo will include protection for multiple batterisers loaded in reverse polarity?

And what will happen if one installs a Batteriser in a device that draws too much current? I.e., how will it fail?

[Fungus]

Just wondering whether Batteroo will include protection for multiple batterisers loaded in reverse polarity?

And what will happen if one installs a Batteriser in a device that draws too much current? I.e., how will it fail?

It's UL tested, that means it has a proper thermal shutdown. 

[drussell]

It's UL tested, that means it has a proper thermal shutdown.

It is NOT UL certified or safety tested in any way.  There hasn't really been any real data of any kind published, including any safety test data.

Who knows if it has what we would call proper safety circuitry but most chips like this have overcurrent and/or overtemperature protection circuitry like you would expect in any regulator.

[ErikTheNorwegian]

It's UL tested, that means it has a proper thermal shutdown.

It is NOT UL certified or safety tested in any way.  There hasn't really been any real data of any kind published, including any safety test data.

Who knows if it has what we would call proper safety circuitry but most chips like this have overcurrent and/or overtemperature protection circuitry like you would expect in any regulator.

There is No finised product to test.. So how can they Chaim UL certification when they have not finised a production item to delivery for test?

[Brumby]

I've never seen a thread as active as this one - but it's not hard to understand why.  Apologies ... but I'm not reading through 226 pages to catch up.

It's easy to see the proponents have taken an engineering concept, attempted to create a marketable product and hyped it to the wazoo.  They are making their case with a principle, not with a real product.  What is more troubling with this product is that the principle is, in itself, sound - and that's the position they take in any defence - but it's the practical implementation that is fraught with problems.

I'm no design engineer, but I would consider designing such a circuit for a known environment where the battery and load were specified would be problematic enough, let alone for a consumer market where the range of batteries and devices spans a spectacular and diverse array of parameters.  And 800%...?  I would like them to provide ONE reproducible demonstration - if they can.


On the other hand, maybe they've developed some components using room temperature superconductors that addresses the issue of losses?  If so, it is refreshing to see such a breakthrough delivered to consumers, rather than the pomp and circumstance of Nobel Prizes, military and aerospace applications and other revolutionary impacts.

Yeah, right.


Personally - IF the device ever gets to market, I am REALLY looking forward to Dave's tear-up ... er ... tear down.

[Fungus]

It's easy to see the proponents have taken an engineering concept, attempted to create a marketable product and hyped it to the wazoo.  They are making their case with a principle, not with a real product.  What is more troubling with this product is that the principle is, in itself, sound

No it isn't Consumer devices are NOT leaving most of their capacity unused.

The problem that Batterizer is claiming to solve is a figment of somebody's imagination.

[coppice]

It's easy to see the proponents have taken an engineering concept, attempted to create a marketable product and hyped it to the wazoo.  They are making their case with a principle, not with a real product.  What is more troubling with this product is that the principle is, in itself, sound - and that's the position they take in any defence - but it's the practical implementation that is fraught with problems.

Wow, you really missed the point. Nobody is really attacking the product. They haven't seen it. Its the priciple which is bogus. Only a handful of poorly designed products leave a substantial portion of a battery's energy unused.

[Muttley Snickers]

@ Brumby

Irrespective of any product that this mob may or may not get to market do yourself a favour and take a deeper look into some of their unscrupulous, defamatory and at times threatening behaviour.

Those that have either participated in or followed the saga from the beginning know exactly what these XXXXX are capable of, outrageous and inexcusable in anybodys language.

[Galenbo]

FFS.  Does no media outlet bother to do even the slightest bit of fact checking?
I thought CNN were a proper news outfit, ...

Seems like your media checking was kind of bad before :-)

[Fungus]

@ Brumby

Irrespective of any product that this mob may or may not get to market do yourself a favour and take a deeper look into some of their unscrupulous, defamatory and at times threatening behaviour.

Those that have either participated in or followed the saga from the beginning know exactly what these XXXXX are capable of, outrageous and inexcusable in anybodys language.

Yep. These are not well-intentioned people who are making an honest mistake.

They know Batterizer doesn't work. That makes them a bunch of scammers who are deliberately planning to take other people's money under false pretenses.

That, all the name calling, the buying of down-votes on Dave's videos, the fake demos given to magazines....let's call a spade a spade. The people at Batteroo are common criminals.

[Brumby]

I beg to differ.

The principle, in the fundamental sense of physics, is sound - in that it is extracting demonstrable energy from a battery (or, more correctly, cell) that has fallen below some 'operational threshold'.  As a simple demonstration, if you take such a cell and short it out, you will get some heating - will you not?  It won't be much, nor very useful and it will not last long - but you have extracted some energy.  Tell me I'm wrong.  This, then, demonstrates the principle has validity.  IMHO this is a point that MUST be conceded (even if quietly in one's own mind).  If not, then you are just trying to sidestep the argument from the Batteriser camp - and they know that they can debate on this point because it is obvious.

It's the practical implementation that is bogus.  I repeat ... the problem is with the practical implementation.  There's no question some energy is there - just how to get it and how much can you get?

When I was watching Dave's video on the subject, I found myself nodding through each and every point - as the Batteriser claims and engineering in the real (practical) world clearly had a lot of distance between them.  I could throw out a couple of thoughts on some of the points - but I wouldn't be saying anything Dave hasn't already covered.

But I predict that, should the Batteriser come to market, one TV advertisement will be an electronic device that stops from 'dead' batteries, where the batteries are removed, Batteriser(s) fitted and replaced with the device springing back to life.  I know it's rather obvious, but if (IF?!!) they pick the right device and batteries, it will appear stunning in a 15 or even 30 second Ad.

Advertisement #2 would be to answer the critics who claim the batteries recovered enough during their period of removal (and possibly assisted by heating from studio lights and/or being handled by warm hands) would be to have two identical setups where both sets of batteries were removed for the same time and, when replaced, the Batteriser device ran to the end of the Ad while the other died in a couple of seconds.


I would like to reiterate a comment I read above - that putting the Batteriser onto a fresh battery will result in a reduction, not increase, of battery life.

But, to be fair an unbiased, we should really wait until the product is available so it could be independently assessed.  Even then, when it is shown just how much hype has been used, there will still be the 'believers' - and to those people, I would like to offer one of my special bulldog clips that when placed on your spark plug leads will improve mileage, decrease emissions and clear up acne.

[jancumps]

I beg to differ.

The principle, in the fundamental sense of physics, is sound - in that it is extracting demonstrable energy from a battery (or, more correctly, cell) that has fallen below some 'operational threshold'.  As a simple demonstration, if you take such a cell and short it out, you will get some heating - will you not?  It won't be much, nor very useful and it will not last long - but you have extracted some energy.  Tell me I'm wrong.  This, then, demonstrates the principle has validity.  IMHO this is a point that MUST be conceded (even if quietly in one's own mind).  If not, then you are just trying to sidestep the argument from the Batteriser camp - and they know that they can debate on this point because it is obvious.

It's the practical implementation that is bogus.  I repeat ... the problem is with the practical implementation.  There's no question some energy is there - just how to get it and how much can you get?

When I was watching Dave's video on the subject, I found myself nodding through each and every point - as the Batteriser claims and engineering in the real (practical) world clearly had a lot of distance between them.  I could throw out a couple of thoughts on some of the points - but I wouldn't be saying anything Dave hasn't already covered.

But I predict that, should the Batteriser come to market, one TV advertisement will be an electronic device that stops from 'dead' batteries, where the batteries are removed, Batteriser(s) fitted and replaced with the device springing back to life.  I know it's rather obvious, but if (IF?!!) they pick the right device and batteries, it will appear stunning in a 15 or even 30 second Ad.

Advertisement #2 would be to answer the critics who claim the batteries recovered enough during their period of removal (and possibly assisted by heating from studio lights and/or being handled by warm hands) would be to have two identical setups where both sets of batteries were removed for the same time and, when replaced, the Batteriser device ran to the end of the Ad while the other died in a couple of seconds.


I would like to reiterate a comment I read above - that putting the Batteriser onto a fresh battery will result in a reduction, not increase, of battery life.

But, to be fair an unbiased, we should really wait until the product is available so it could be independently assessed.  Even then, when it is shown just how much hype has been used, there will still be the 'believers' - and to those people, I would like to offer one of my special bulldog clips that when placed on your spark plug leads will improve mileage, decrease emissions and clear up acne.

I know you were not going to read the 226 pages, but all's been covered before. Maybe you should?

[Brumby]

As for the tactics and so on - that is not what I was addressing.  I've seen some of the material they've spouted and I have no misgivings about their intent.

What I was trying to do was separate the emotion from the science.

If all your challenges are tainted by any sort of emotional attack, then you are just giving them something to use to discredit whatever else is said.  It's bad enough that they invent crap and tell porkies - but when someone jumps in with any sort of 'outburst' they can claim 'victimisation' ... and they can use that as an example.

And they are.

[Brumby]

I know you were not going to read the 226 pages, but all's been covered before. Maybe you should?

That's a fair criticism.

It would probably be more appropriate for me to step back at this point - but I will be interested to follow the topic.

[grumpydoc]

(it there is anyway to resize an external image with the bbcode here?)

[img width=<number_of_pixels>]http://........[/img]

[Fungus]

There's no question some energy is there

Right.

how much can you get?

Short version: "Bugger all".

Most devices can work down to 1.0V or less and at that point there's so little energy left it simply isn't worth trying to get it.

Long version: The rest of this thread where it's been covered plenty of times in multiple different proofs and experiments.

one TV advertisement will be an electronic device that stops from 'dead' batteries, where the batteries are removed, Batteriser(s) fitted and replaced with the device springing back to life

Yes, that is the first video on their web site (Apple keyboard) and also the exact demo they went around doing to magazines earlier this year.

[GNU_Ninja]

As for the tactics and so on - that is not what I was addressing.  I've seen some of the material they've spouted and I have no misgivings about their intent.

What I was trying to do was separate the emotion from the science.

If all your challenges are tainted by any sort of emotional attack, then you are just giving them something to use to discredit whatever else is said.  It's bad enough that they invent crap and tell porkies - but when someone jumps in with any sort of 'outburst' they can claim 'victimisation' ... and they can use that as an example.

And they are.

No one on this forum (as far as I can recall) has ever disputed the underlying physical principles behind the Batteriser device (buck boost converter). What has been disputed are the claims that Batteroo are (still) making (see attached image).

As to character assassination, the Batteriser Bunch fired off the first salvo there when they called Dave's qualifications and experience into question. I suggest you take some time to read few some of the earlier posts. Everything that can be said about this subject has been said.

Like all good scams, there is a grain of truth in there. Batteroos problem, is that it they're still trying to defend their provenly bullshit claims. 

Seriously, take some time to read some of the earlier posts, the ones before it all descended into farce 

[Fungus]

No one on this forum (as far as I can recall) has ever disputed the underlying physical principles behind the Batteriser device

Why would we dispute the existence of something we all use on a daily basis?

(buck converter).

Boost, I think you'll find...   

[SeanB]

Only way Batterpoo can get 800% more energy out of a pretty much flat battery is if they have invented a working Mr Fusion  as seen in BTTF.  If that, and at the price point they intend to sell at, then the energy worries of the planet are solved for pretty much until the sun finally senesces and turns into a red dwarf. If that then I want to be Lister....... Or even Holly. Just not Rimmer. Might take the Kryten position, if i can be one of the spare heads.

[Brumby]

Like all good scams, there is a grain of truth in there.

Indeed.

Seriously, take some time to read some of the earlier posts, the ones before it all descended into farce 

Something I really should have done.  I do apologise.

I need to make some time for that exercise.

[AmmoJammo]

The number of backers has decreased again, and now there's people on the Indiegogo page asking where their batterisers are...