Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 2236209 times)

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Offline splin

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7325 on: December 17, 2016, 10:44:39 pm »
Julian Ilett just reviewed the Xintest HT-02 thermal imaging camera - a modern device with rotten battery management which might just benefit from Batterpoos, except there's a good chance they wouldn't fit. Dropped out with battery voltage of 1.34V/cell - 5.36V into an LDO? What were the designers thinking! See 1:37 and 25:07:



Not exactly mainstream though.

[Edit] Added dropout voltage.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 11:15:48 pm by splin »
 
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7326 on: December 17, 2016, 10:48:12 pm »
Unfortunate consequence of Australian accent - this sounds to me like "Imagine a container full of Jizz..."  :-DD


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Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7327 on: December 17, 2016, 10:48:58 pm »
I think that video is actively misleading and deceptive to the point of breaking most advertising regs, as it has a strong implication that the capacity figure with Batterizer is meaningful.

Of course it opens them up to a very simple counter-demo, by repeating the exact same procedure and then seeing how long it continues to run for.

Much as I hate Apple and hate lawsuit nonsense, I really hope Apple go after them.
 

If they continue to paint certain products in a bad light regarding battery management, then I would expect some consumers of those products will start wondering.  When those people start asking questions - particularly at Apple centred locations - then I can see Apple getting peeved enough to take them to task.  How far they take it is another matter - but Apple have not shown themselves to be shy in this area.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7328 on: December 17, 2016, 10:52:44 pm »
Looks like a nightmare for any battery that goes into the compartment sideways.

 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7329 on: December 17, 2016, 10:57:09 pm »
Guess which video just auto-played after the Batteroo Apple keyboard one....  :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD

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Offline Luminax

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7330 on: December 17, 2016, 11:24:51 pm »
Whoah, did we finally hit the bonanza?
I'm wondering just how much we are affecting the 'suggestions' put out by youtube and how it might be saving that other new "poor" investor from losing the money(that they've probably already lost anyway)

 |O |O |O |O |O

I do sometimes wish I can strangle those marketting bullshit people over the internet
Jack of all trade - Master of some... I hope...
 
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Offline kalleboo

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7331 on: December 18, 2016, 12:01:45 am »
So before their site update, "Early bird pricing" was AA×8 for $20. Now they're charging $9.99 for AA×4
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7332 on: December 18, 2016, 12:18:41 am »
Looks like a nightmare for any battery that goes into the compartment sideways.


My Garmin GPS has springs on the positive contact too, they'll tear those contact to shreads.
 

Offline Kalvin

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7333 on: December 18, 2016, 12:56:07 am »
Unfortunate consequence of Australian accent - this sounds to me like "Imagine a container full of Jizz..."  :-DD



They are giving technically misleading analogy here. The container should not be depicted as | | but instead \ / because the relative voltage drop will be much less at the beginning than at the end. Well, I guess in USA one can present technically faulty and misleading advertisement whatsoever without any consequence.
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7334 on: December 18, 2016, 01:32:49 am »
Bingo, they have a new investor sucker:



Great! They've funded another year of free entertainment. >:D
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7335 on: December 18, 2016, 01:53:02 am »
Bingo, they have a new investor sucker:



Great! They've funded another year of free entertainment. >:D
Nobody lost money underestimating the gullibility or ignorance of the general public.

I wonder how long before we'll see a high-profile manufacturer explicitly warning against the use of them in their products.
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7336 on: December 18, 2016, 02:23:15 am »
Seems to me that they are provoking Apple here to come into action:
- Apple in the title,
- Apple logo and products prominently in view,
- subliminal message: "Apple products have bad battery management"

And a public reaction from Apple would be the best publicity for their sleeves they could ever hope for, they need to make the headlines again.

Won't happen. Apple have a policy of very firmly ignoring anything and anyone that doesn't suit their purpose and are better at it than the most stubborn girlfriend in a huff. Apple have a (I think rather stupid) habit of ignoring anyone who is critical of them. If a magazine offers up a review critical of Apple beyond the most mild, it's just a matter of taste, type criticism, that's it - no more review kit, no more invitations to press conferences and no returned phone calls from Apple's PR people.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline gir

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7337 on: December 18, 2016, 02:32:49 am »
long time lurker, but that is interesting:

i got a batterizeroo-ad on this forum just now.  :-DD

https://imgur.com/a/um3j8
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7338 on: December 18, 2016, 02:36:56 am »
She sounds like she is from West Australia, I would say around Darwin
Well, Darwin is part of the Northern Territory rather than Western Australia, and while west of the "middle" of Australia its more central than east/west.

Anyway the accent is NSW, of a typical north coast type.

Do we know anybody from that part of Australia who personally visited Batteroo's offices with his wife a few months ago?

Somebody who later got preferential treatment from Bob and a hand-mailed box of Batterisers?  :popcorn:

 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7339 on: December 18, 2016, 03:13:58 am »
long time lurker, but that is interesting:

i got a batterizeroo-ad on this forum just now.  :-DD

https://imgur.com/a/um3j8

So Batteroo is paying Dave for the debunking videos and performance tests. This is hilarious!
 

Offline BradC

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7340 on: December 18, 2016, 03:14:28 am »

She sounds like she is from West Australia, I would say around Darwin

You sound like you're from California, I would say around Dallas ;)
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7341 on: December 18, 2016, 04:26:53 am »
i got a batterizeroo-ad on this forum just now.

Reminds me of a few years ago when a UK MP complained about seeing pron adds on some web page, until someone explained that the ads being served are based on what you'd previously been viewing.
 

Offline dcac

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7342 on: December 18, 2016, 04:27:07 am »
d) The major fact that battery gauge is now rendered useless

Theoretically it should be possible, to some extent, to relay the remaining battery capacity through the Batteriser, as like when the battery voltage drops so would the output of the Batteriser though of course still keeping a higher voltage than the battery. It’s going to be interesting to see if their custom chip is just a plain boost converter trying to output 1.5V no matter what, or if they included some battery monitoring logic for a more controlled shutdown when battery is close to completely empty.

 

Offline dcac

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7343 on: December 18, 2016, 04:32:14 am »
Bingo, they have a new investor sucker:



Great! They've funded another year of free entertainment. >:D
Nobody lost money underestimating the gullibility or ignorance of the general public.

I wonder how long before we'll see a high-profile manufacturer explicitly warning against the use of them in their products.

I don’t know if battery hungry Multimeters usually already uses a boost converter, but I can imagine someone is going to try using batterisers on them.

And how about the unfortunate U1272A which shown to be sensitive to EMC how would it react to 4 batteriser chokes in very close proximity.
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7344 on: December 18, 2016, 05:08:54 am »
DONALD TRUMP ENDORSES BATTEROO

(Well it has to happen sooner or later, i'm just getting in first)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 05:12:09 am by SL4P »
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Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7345 on: December 18, 2016, 05:25:27 am »
Unfortunate consequence of Australian accent - this sounds to me like "Imagine a container full of Jizz..."  :-DD





:P :P :P

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7346 on: December 18, 2016, 05:52:48 am »
e) How pointless the whole exercise is as the Apple Wireless Keyboard lasts forever on a pair of batteries anyway. (I get around 9 months to a set of batteries with the keyboard left turned on 24x7.)
f) I checked a set of batteries immediately after they came out of an Apple Wireless Trackpad as 'dead' (the Trackpad actually turned off in use after weeks of low battery warning) a couple of weeks back. They had an off load, open circuit voltage of around 0.85V. It just happened that as they went dead I was playing around withcharacterizing an LT2400 ADC and an AD586 reference on a breadboard not three feet away so I hooked one up to amuse myself by watching the open circuit voltage creep up microvolt by microvolt as they recovered.

Yep, someone on here measured the dropout voltage of an Apple keyboard, and it was sub 1V per cell IIRC, so it's already very well designed to extract the maximum juice form the battery
It is the most useless example possible really. And they can't claim it's the ESR and current pulses etc in an apple keyboard. They have absolutely no leg to stand on.

About 0.95V IIRC. My notebook was stolen with my data in it. :-/
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7347 on: December 18, 2016, 07:19:25 am »
And really sprouting those manipulated thrown away battery figures:



When they say "dead batteries" they mean discarded batteries.

So it turns out, if you throw away a battery with 93% capacity remaining, you could get 10 times the run time, if you used it till it was fully discharged....

Whats this got to do with the Batterpoo though?

Their percentage figures confuse me though.... surely the total percentage of discarded batteries must add up to 100%? And also take in to consideration the percentage that are completely depleted?

According to Batterpoo, 200% of dead batteries have over 50% capacity remaining?
 

Offline Spuddevans

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7348 on: December 18, 2016, 07:34:13 am »
According to Batterpoo, 200% of dead batteries have over 50% capacity remaining?

The thing that struck me about that image you quoted, it says "Perceived" dead batteries thrown away, PERCEIVED!!! Perceived by who? Doesn't that mean that they have just Imagined (Dreamt, plucked a figure out of the great blue beyond) how many batteries have been thrown away, and then imagined how many of those imaginary thrown-away batteries were not fully discharged!!

Say what you want about the creators of the Batterpoo, they have got great imagination's.

Tim
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7349 on: December 18, 2016, 07:39:58 am »
According to Batterpoo, 200% of dead batteries have over 50% capacity remaining?

The thing that struck me about that image you quoted, it says "Perceived" dead batteries thrown away, PERCEIVED!!! Perceived by who? Doesn't that mean that they have just Imagined (Dreamt, plucked a figure out of the great blue beyond) how many batteries have been thrown away, and then imagined how many of those imaginary thrown-away batteries were not fully discharged!!

Say what you want about the creators of the Batterpoo, they have got great imagination's.

Tim

Thats what the original data showed, that a lot of discarded batteries are actually not "dead" which is why I referred to it as "discarded" not "dead"

People throw away batteries that still have life in them, whether it be a digital camera, that they don't want going flat while they're on holiday, wireless microphones, or something along those lines, that no one would ever use a batterpoo in anyway.
 


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