Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 3060172 times)

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Offline Luminax

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7600 on: December 28, 2016, 01:38:00 am »
For those playing along at home... Looks like Dave's first Batteroo's are "With Delivery Courier"/"Out for delivery" as of time of this post...



I see your point and raise you :
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Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7601 on: December 28, 2016, 01:42:23 am »
I've got them and I'm LIVE unboxing!
 
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Offline Ysjoelfir

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7602 on: December 28, 2016, 02:34:56 am »
Nice live unboxing and rambling dave, I appreciated it.
Have fun in the lab and catch you ne!

It's 3:35 here in germany, yeeez... Should go to bed finaly...
Greetings, Kai \ Ysjoelfir
 

Offline Luminax

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7603 on: December 28, 2016, 04:11:33 am »
crap... I'm still at work with 6 hours to go...
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Offline BoomBrush

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7604 on: December 28, 2016, 08:56:59 am »
I was watching the videos from TechnologyCatalyst and he made a really good point about how the Batteriser could cause death.

Imagine somebody who sticks the Batteriser into their smoke alarm because they think it will give them "80% more life". Since the unit is always at 1.5-1.6v, the smoke alarm doesn't know when the battery is low! Meaning, the beeps that occur which scream "CHANGE THE BATTERY" won't happen! It would assume the battery is full and not tell you the battery is dying.

So once the battery passes the cut out voltage for the Batteriser, no more smoke alarm! No warning!! This could cause a house to burn down and kill a family (for example).

Source:
(21 minutes 33 seconds is when he mentions the smoke alarm)

Before I watched that video, I didn't really worry about the whole Batteriser thing, like I knew it was giving false claims but oh well. But now, I worry for my life that people will buy into this product and possibly cause fires, which could harm property or even cause death.
 

Offline TechnicalBen

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7605 on: December 28, 2016, 09:04:24 am »
Hi guys. First post, and I registered as Davids videos are great and I hope to learn a little about electronics one day and make one or two things.

So when I saw this post, I though it would help to point out one or two obvious points to help save some time.

Statistical analyses and general variation. What of? Battery charge and manufacturing tolerances or manufacture quality checks.

Long story short, check out Bigclivedotcom (his site, youtube or anyone else doing such tests) on total battery charge tests. So if you are very selective on your published results, it's easy to pretend even canned hot air would change a batteries performance!

Basically many brands vary off the charts all over the place. So a 800% difference is not surprising for the batteries, with or without a joule thief!  :bullshit:

[Edit]
Ps, oh, that video from TechnologyCatalyst is gold. Seems this is more than just using some noisy data to fake some figures... is it completely false advertising?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 09:12:47 am by TechnicalBen »
 

Offline CJay

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7606 on: December 28, 2016, 09:26:48 am »
This is hilarious and has descended into the farce of snake oil sales, it's passed from 'This iracle product will give you 800% more life from your batteries' to 'Even though it didn't last as long in my own tests I feel people will still buy them because they want things to work full speed for less time'.

I'm now wondering how much money the Darwin candidate has sunk into Batteroo to obtain 'exclusive' distribution rights for him to be so desperately clinging onto the hope that he can fool people into buying it.

 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7607 on: December 28, 2016, 09:35:08 am »
I was watching the videos from TechnologyCatalyst and he made a really good point about how the Batteriser could cause death.
Imagine somebody who sticks the Batteriser into their smoke alarm because they think it will give them "80% more life". Since the unit is always at 1.5-1.6v, the smoke alarm doesn't know when the battery is low! Meaning, the beeps that occur which scream "CHANGE THE BATTERY" won't happen! It would assume the battery is full and not tell you the battery is dying.
So once the battery passes the cut out voltage for the Batteriser, no more smoke alarm! No warning!! This could cause a house to burn down and kill a family (for example).

Yep.
I don't know of any 1.5V smoke alarms though, but Batteriser are planing (and have promised to give out for free to backers) a 9V version  :scared:
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7608 on: December 28, 2016, 09:38:11 am »
Basically many brands vary off the charts all over the place. So a 800% difference is not surprising for the batteries, with or without a joule thief!  :bullshit:

You can't possibly get 800% variation.
Yes there will be some variation in new battery capacity and variation in the electro-chemistry, but it's not huge. It might be a 10% spread or so.
 

Offline HKJ

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7609 on: December 28, 2016, 09:44:27 am »
Long story short, check out Bigclivedotcom (his site, youtube or anyone else doing such tests) on total battery charge tests. So if you are very selective on your published results, it's easy to pretend even canned hot air would change a batteries performance!

Basically many brands vary off the charts all over the place. So a 800% difference is not surprising for the batteries, with or without a joule thief!  :bullshit:

Quality batteries are fairly consistent in capacity, only some cheap Chinese batteries varies significantly in capacity.
I have done 100's of battery tests here: http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers%20UK.html (Use the links to comparators).
 
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Offline Blocco

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7610 on: December 28, 2016, 10:25:34 am »
I was watching the videos from TechnologyCatalyst and he made a really good point about how the Batteriser could cause death.
Imagine somebody who sticks the Batteriser into their smoke alarm because they think it will give them "80% more life". Since the unit is always at 1.5-1.6v, the smoke alarm doesn't know when the battery is low! Meaning, the beeps that occur which scream "CHANGE THE BATTERY" won't happen! It would assume the battery is full and not tell you the battery is dying.
So once the battery passes the cut out voltage for the Batteriser, no more smoke alarm! No warning!! This could cause a house to burn down and kill a family (for example).

Yep.
I don't know of any 1.5V smoke alarms though, but Batteriser are planing (and have promised to give out for free to backers) a 9V version  :scared:

I have some carbon monoxide alarms that run on 3x AAA cells.
 
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Offline samgab

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7611 on: December 28, 2016, 10:33:58 am »
Long story short, check out Bigclivedotcom (his site, youtube or anyone else doing such tests) on total battery charge tests. So if you are very selective on your published results, it's easy to pretend even canned hot air would change a batteries performance!

Basically many brands vary off the charts all over the place. So a 800% difference is not surprising for the batteries, with or without a joule thief!  :bullshit:

Quality batteries are fairly consistent in capacity, only some cheap Chinese batteries varies significantly in capacity.
I have done 100's of battery tests here: http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers%20UK.html (Use the links to comparators).

Yep, have been reading HKJ's reviews and posts on here and Candlepowerforum for years: Can confirm; he knows what he's talking about with this stuff.
 

Offline digsys

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7612 on: December 28, 2016, 10:37:06 am »
Quote from: Blocco
.. I have some carbon monoxide alarms that run on 3x AAA cells
Perfect !! We'll ask Dave to loan you the batterpoos, and if you don't report back in a few weeks, we'll assume they failed without warning and you're dead ! :-)
Pretty definitive test :-) Not as spectacular as the smoke alarm scenario ... but the more mice (or canaries) the better :-)
Hello <tap> <tap> .. is this thing on?
 

Offline strangersound

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7613 on: December 28, 2016, 11:51:26 am »
Watching the unboxing video I was shocked that the individual accused Dave of taking checks from a battery manufacturer, when it's obvious that the product is going to be sucking juice from the battery all the time even when the device being powered is off. And considering the toy train results, I'd be inclined to venture a guess that somebody is cashing checks from battery manufacturers and it's not Dave. ;)
"I learned a long time ago that reality was much weirder than anyone's imagination." - Hunter S. Thompson
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7614 on: December 28, 2016, 11:53:14 am »
I'd be inclined to venture a guess that somebody is cashing checks from batteryBatteroo manufacturers and it's not Dave. ;)

FTFY.
 

Offline strangersound

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7615 on: December 28, 2016, 11:55:24 am »
I'd be inclined to venture a guess that somebody is cashing checks from batteryBatteroo manufacturers and it's not Dave. ;)

FTFY.

Either way, but the way I stated sells more batteries, so... ;)
"I learned a long time ago that reality was much weirder than anyone's imagination." - Hunter S. Thompson
 

Offline Svuppe

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7616 on: December 28, 2016, 12:07:09 pm »
This is hilarious and has descended into the farce of snake oil sales, it's passed from 'This iracle product will give you 800% more life from your batteries' to 'Even though it didn't last as long in my own tests I feel people will still buy them because they want things to work full speed for less time'.
But, it can't even deliver better performance for less time. Have a closer look at the toy train test from Frank Buss. The train with the Batteroo sleeve runs marginally SLOWER than the one without it, right from the start. So (at least in this case) the Batteroo takes away both performance and duration  :palm:
 

Offline GoneTomorrow

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7617 on: December 28, 2016, 12:20:37 pm »
A 9V Batteroo is even more pointless than for any of the cylindrical cells. 9V batteries are almost exclusively used in extremely low load devices (I think I've only ever had a garage door remote and smoke alarms). By Batteroo's own admission the technology is no good for low-load devices, and as others have said, downright dangerous in a smoke alarm.

 :palm: if they ever ship the 9V one. They (hopefully) wouldn't even fit in smoke alarms given most of them I've seen have fairly tight battery compartments with interlock mechanisms and such, to deter modification. They would have to extend the battery by at least the height of the snap terminals plus PCB.
 

Offline CJay

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7618 on: December 28, 2016, 12:37:43 pm »
This is hilarious and has descended into the farce of snake oil sales, it's passed from 'This iracle product will give you 800% more life from your batteries' to 'Even though it didn't last as long in my own tests I feel people will still buy them because they want things to work full speed for less time'.
But, it can't even deliver better performance for less time. Have a closer look at the toy train test from Frank Buss. The train with the Batteroo sleeve runs marginally SLOWER than the one without it, right from the start. So (at least in this case) the Batteroo takes away both performance and duration  :palm:

Marginally lower terminal voltage I suppose if it's 'fixed' at 1.5V, regardless, it's still a huge fail.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7619 on: December 28, 2016, 12:40:07 pm »
Long story short, check out Bigclivedotcom (his site, youtube or anyone else doing such tests) on total battery charge tests. So if you are very selective on your published results, it's easy to pretend even canned hot air would change a batteries performance!

Basically many brands vary off the charts all over the place. So a 800% difference is not surprising for the batteries, with or without a joule thief!  :bullshit:

Quality batteries are fairly consistent in capacity, only some cheap Chinese batteries varies significantly in capacity.
I have done 100's of battery tests here: http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers%20UK.html (Use the links to comparators).
Yep, have been reading HKJ's reviews and posts on here and Candlepowerforum for years: Can confirm; he knows what he's talking about with this stuff.

I concur.
Without having to dig through the data, do you have a typical figure for variation in capacity of quality brand AA's and AAA's from the same batch?
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7620 on: December 28, 2016, 12:42:38 pm »
Quote from: Blocco
.. I have some carbon monoxide alarms that run on 3x AAA cells
Perfect !! We'll ask Dave to loan you the batterpoos, and if you don't report back in a few weeks, we'll assume they failed without warning and you're dead ! :-)
Pretty definitive test :-) Not as spectacular as the smoke alarm scenario ... but the more mice (or canaries) the better :-)

Schrodinger's battery  ;D
 
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Offline HKJ

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7621 on: December 28, 2016, 12:58:55 pm »
I concur.
Without having to dig through the data, do you have a typical figure for variation in capacity of quality brand AA's and AAA's from the same batch?

I do not have data comparing multiple alkaline AA or AAA from same batch at same discharge current, but the discharge curves always shows up in the right sequence. I.e. 0.1A discharge always has more capacity than 0.2A discharge (Usual 10% to 20%), that would not be the case if there was huge variations between the cells.
It could be interesting to run a batch at same current and see how much variation there is.
 

Offline AF6LJ

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7622 on: December 28, 2016, 01:09:10 pm »
Quote from: Blocco
.. I have some carbon monoxide alarms that run on 3x AAA cells
Perfect !! We'll ask Dave to loan you the batterpoos, and if you don't report back in a few weeks, we'll assume they failed without warning and you're dead ! :-)
Pretty definitive test :-) Not as spectacular as the smoke alarm scenario ... but the more mice (or canaries) the better :-)

Schrodinger's battery  ;D
I love that,
Funny as Hell.
Sue AF6LJ
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7623 on: December 28, 2016, 01:15:46 pm »
I don't know about fire detectors but every CO detector on boats I have come across uses 2xAA or 2xAAA batteries. CO detection is critical in small boats with cabins next to engine rooms.

My experience with boats owners makes anxious that it will be plausible scenario. Boat owners tend to like electronic gadgets...

Alexander.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 01:18:48 pm by firewalker »
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 
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Offline kalleboo

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7624 on: December 28, 2016, 01:47:37 pm »
the individual accused Dave of taking checks from a battery manufacturer
At the same time Bob also accused Dave of only having a degree in performing arts  :-DD
 


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