Author Topic: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown  (Read 6402 times)

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Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2018, 05:50:29 am »
Check out the gold plated edges, surprised I don't see this more often. It should be capable in a normal PCB process (plated slot) with no added cost and superior to via stitching alone right?

I think the cost of board space being "free" is slightly exaggerated though. Not only do you have the controlled impedance board material (not as high end as SSA3021X material but still), you also have the cost of machined aluminum to contain it. On a low end product like this, adding $20-40 of cost would be significant.
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2018, 05:58:13 am »
Check out the gold plated edges, surprised I don't see this more often. It should be capable in a normal PCB process (plated slot) with no added cost and superior to via stitching alone right?

I think the cost of board space being "free" is slightly exaggerated though. Not only do you have the controlled impedance board material (not as high end as SSA3021X material but still), you also have the cost of machined aluminum to contain it. On a low end product like this, adding $20-40 of cost would be significant.
It's done like this for a reason......there's 2 models the western markets won't see: SSA1015X and SSA1010X-C so it makes sense that any addition HW the SVA has is not replicated in the those SSA models.
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Online Kleinstein

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2018, 02:06:56 am »
There is not that much additional HW needed for the VNA mode. It gets even less if you look what could be left unpopulated, still keeping the same board. I don't think the savings on a smaller CPU are that large.
So I can understand that they might have dropped the SSA version. So maybe the lower BW version, without the generator might still make some sense.
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2018, 05:00:50 am »
But it does raise the question as to when the 3GHz SVA1030X is coming....  :popcorn:
 

Online nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2018, 07:20:04 am »
But yes, it is too bad it can't reach beyond 2.5 GHz where all the modern communication standards sit. That makes the SVA1015 obsolete straight away.

Not obsolete, it just has a narrower target market. I can imagine plenty of uses for a 1.5GHz VNA.
Like what? Because it is a 50 Ohm device you can't use it for systems with an impedance very different to 50 Ohm without losing accuracy. So this does limit it to 'radio stuff'.
When it comes to network analysers there are basically two types: the HF 50 Ohm types which are primarily useful for HF (radio) work and the LF types which also have 1M Ohm inputs and various methods to do the analysis to offer a wide range of useable impedances. The LF network analysers are much more useful as a general purpose tool. Siglent should make one of those (just like the Omicron Bode 100 you reviewed recently).
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 07:31:17 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2018, 07:33:29 am »
But yes, it is too bad it can't reach beyond 2.5 GHz where all the modern communication standards sit. That makes the SVA1015 obsolete straight away.

Not obsolete, it just has a narrower target market. I can imagine plenty of uses for a 1.5GHz VNA.
Like what? Because it is a 50 Ohm device you can't use it for systems with an impedance very different to 50 Ohm without losing accuracy. So this does limit it to 'radio stuff'.
When it comes to network analysers there are basically two types: the HF 50 Ohm types which are primarily useful for HF (radio) work and the LF types which also have 1M Ohm inputs and various methods to do the analysis to offer a wide range of useable impedances. The LF network analysers are much more useful as a general purpose tool. Siglent should make one of those (just like the Omicron 100 you reviewed recently).
So you think corrections can't be applied for alternative usages ?  ::)

From the manual:
2.1.3.8 Correction
Correct the displayed amplitude to compensate for gains or losses from external devices such
as antennas and cables. When using this function, you can view the correction data table and
save or load the current correction data. When amplitude correction is enabled, both the trace
and related measurement results will be mathematically corrected. Positive correction values
are added to the measured values. Negative (-) correction values are subtracted from the
measured values.
1. RF Input
Set the input impedance for numeric voltage-to-power conversions. To measure a 75 Ω device,
you should use a 75 Ω to 50 Ω adapters to connect the analyzer with the system-under-test
and then set the input impedance to 75 Ω.
2. Apply Correction
Enable or disable amplitude corrections. Default is Off. The analyzer provides four correction
factors that can be created and edited separately, but they can be applied independently in any
combination.
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Online nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2018, 03:47:01 pm »
@Tautech: I know you want to make it look good but there are limits to Siglent equipment. Laws of physics and so on.
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Offline PA4TIM

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2018, 03:54:20 pm »

Like what? Because it is a 50 Ohm device you can't use it for systems with an impedance very different to 50 Ohm without losing accuracy. So this does limit it to 'radio stuff'.
When it comes to network analysers there are basically two types: the HF 50 Ohm types which are primarily useful for HF (radio) work and the LF types which also have 1M Ohm inputs and various methods to do the analysis to offer a wide range of useable impedances. The LF network analysers are much more useful as a general purpose tool. Siglent should make one of those (just like the Omicron Bode 100 you reviewed recently).

You are looking to narrow minded.
You are talking about impedance analysers used for gain/phase measurements. Just because an instrument is called an analyser and measures phase does not mean it is a VNA. There are vector and impedance analysers and some of them are both.
Impedance analysers often can output much more as a VNA, and I think they can handle much higher input too
VNAs like the siglent can only do s parameter measurements (and often TDR) and that is always 50 or 75 ohm.

There are network analysers that can do both functions, like the Omicron (limitted to only 50 MHz) or the Keysight E5061B-3L5 (a LF analyser up to 3 GHz ! )

The siglent is a hobby SA+VNA and 1,5 GHz is very useful for HAM use.  I have a SDR-kits VNWA and that can do also impedance analyses, that is, if you use a RF-IV adapter (the software supports it) I have that too but seldom use it because it is only usable to something like 100 MHz. Not interesting for ham/hobby use
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 05:00:20 pm by PA4TIM »
www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
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Offline gardner

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2018, 03:38:12 am »
Dave pointed out many times in the video, that the discrete element filters are bigger in the SVA1000, because the frequency is lower.

I know he said that, but I am not sure I understand why it matters.  Both instruments he compared operate down to 9 kHz.  So it is the upper limit, not the lower limit that is different between the two.  Unless the IF frequency range is really different, that I didn't hear mentioned, then the microstrip distributed element filter layout could have been about the same and cover 9 ... 1,500 kHz the same way it does in the SSA3032X
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Offline hendorog

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2018, 05:30:25 am »
Dave pointed out many times in the video, that the discrete element filters are bigger in the SVA1000, because the frequency is lower.

I know he said that, but I am not sure I understand why it matters.  Both instruments he compared operate down to 9 kHz.  So it is the upper limit, not the lower limit that is different between the two.  Unless the IF frequency range is really different, that I didn't hear mentioned, then the microstrip distributed element filter layout could have been about the same and cover 9 ... 1,500 kHz the same way it does in the SSA3032X

I'm sure the IF frequency is different between the two devices.

The SSA has a first IF around 4GHz.

OTOH, the mixer in the SVA tops out at 4.5GHz. To have the same IF frequency as the SSA, it would need to run at 5.5GHz which is unlikely. So that is a strong hint that the IF is now running at a significantly lower frequency. Which would of course dictate that any first IF filters need to change at least.

So we know the input frequency is different, the 1st LO frequency range is different, and the 1st IF is different. Same story with the TG. So it is not a surprise that those filters have changed.

 

Online MattSR

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2018, 09:54:05 pm »
So, try as I may, I have searched online, read the user manual and looked for anything I can on google - I can't find exactly what the bloody AM/FM modulation analyzer feature will give me! Can it measure peak and average deviation etc for example?

How are we meant to know if the feature is worth shelling out $$$ for, if we can't even find basic information on what the thing does!?!!!!!!

 :-- :--
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2018, 09:24:40 pm »
So, try as I may, I have searched online, read the user manual and looked for anything I can on google - I can't find exactly what the bloody AM/FM modulation analyzer feature will give me! Can it measure peak and average deviation etc for example?

How are we meant to know if the feature is worth shelling out $$$ for, if we can't even find basic information on what the thing does!?!!!!!!

 :-- :--

I have tautech's SVA here at the moment, I'll have a play tomorrow after work and post a pic - please remind me if I forget!
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2018, 09:19:44 pm »
Here is a pic of the demod in action:

FM radio station at about 100MHz - both SA view and FM demod view.

I have to say that the fast www interface to this makes grabbing screenshots a breeze.
There is a screenshot button, just click it and it saves a nice small png. No need to stuff around with USB sticks.
VNC works as well - no password.

It works well with a direct ethernet cable connection with static IP's set on both ends. The interface to set the static IP on the SVA isn't very good though.

I really like this thing. Even more so that the SSA. It's a wee ripper.

 
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Online PA0PBZ

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2018, 10:03:34 pm »
Here is a pic of the demod in action:

FM radio station at about 100MHz - both SA view and FM demod view.

So, deviation according to modulation analyzer max 25KHz?  :-//

SA screen shows what you expect from an FM broadcast station, 100-150Khz.
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2018, 06:52:17 am »
Here is a pic of the demod in action:

FM radio station at about 100MHz - both SA view and FM demod view.

So, deviation according to modulation analyzer max 25KHz?  :-//

SA screen shows what you expect from an FM broadcast station, 100-150Khz.

Hmm, yes.
Firstly, the Carrier Freq reset itself to 100MHz when changing modes, so it wasn't actually on a station frequency in the second pic. That looks like a bug to me.

Secondly I don't know what the deviation is showing. It isn't the absolute occupied bandwidth which is about 180 kHz
I've seen it up to 50kHz, but for this station it seems a bit lower - max about 42 kHz.
The demodulated trace above shows +/- 80kHz roughly taking the max/min values.
I suspect it is the result of some calculation.
 

Offline PhilipPeake

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2018, 07:48:08 am »
One of the first things that struck me was a button battery on the PCB - inside the sealed enclosure.
So its a return to replace a dead button cell???

I wonder how much that costs (ex. the shipping costs)?
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2018, 11:52:01 am »
One of the first things that struck me was a button battery on the PCB - inside the sealed enclosure.
So its a return to replace a dead button cell???

I wonder how much that costs (ex. the shipping costs)?
What, this one ?
https://youtu.be/HxBcQDooAYs?t=830
You must've been looking at something else.
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Offline PhilipPeake

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2018, 07:27:13 am »
Yep. That one.



Unless I missed an access panel on the cover it looks like you would need to break the seal to replace it?
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1101 - Siglent SVA1015X VNA Teardown
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2018, 09:54:41 am »
Yep. That one.



Unless I missed an access panel on the cover it looks like you would need to break the seal to replace it?
And based on my PC bios backup battery experience the SVA will be well past the 3 year warranty period before the battery fails. No issue for anyone breaking the tamper seal then !
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