EEVblog #758 - Pebble Time Smartwatch Unboxing & Review

[EEVblog]

Dave unboxes and gives his first impressions review of the new Pebble Time Smartwatch.
They raised $20M on Kickstarter for this!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-time-awesome-smartwatch-no-compromises

[c4757p]

Don't you think your screaming outbursts of frustration are starting to get a bit over the top? Damn, you're pissed off by everything...

Of course you have to create a damned account, don't you understand the point of a smartwatch? And of course it needs lots of privileges on your phone, it ties into almost everything. That's the point! And who gives a flying toss whether it tells the time out of the box - it tells you how to configure it out of the box, isn't that preferable??

[steve30]

Hmm.

I think I'll stick with my Casio W-86 thanks.

[EEVblog]

Don't you think your screaming outbursts of frustration are starting to get a bit over the top? Damn, you're pissed off by everything...

 

[mikeselectricstuff]

Don't you think your screaming outbursts of frustration are starting to get a bit over the top? Damn, you're pissed off by everything...

Of course you have to create a damned account, don't you understand the point of a smartwatch? And of course it needs lots of privileges on your phone, it ties into almost everything. That's the point! And who gives a flying toss whether it tells the time out of the box - it tells you how to configure it out of the box, isn't that preferable??

Maybe you just want to use it as a watch because you like the look - there is no excuse for it not having this basic functionality out of the box - it's just plain lazy.
 

[numloxx]

OMG.. I'm sorry but I'm going to take a deep breath so I tone down my comments about your unboxing video Dave.

I'm a big fan of your Blog and love watching every video you upload. Great work! Keep it up!

1. I know you don't hold back and tell it like it is, and criticise things if they are not good, but you've gone a bit too far and jumped the gun on a few issues.

2. It's second generation, NOT 3rd. 1st was Pebble and Pebble Steel. 2nd was Pebble Time and Pebble Time Steel. Get your details correct

2. Have you owned the original Pebble watch and had experience with it?

3. Initial boot screen. The purpose of this watch is to link to your smartphone. If you just press the Back button, it would go to it's unlinked watch mode. But then you would be missing all the benefits of the Pebble Time.

4. When you first get ANY device the first step is to ensure you have the latest firmware.

5. Every App in Android has permssions. Are you an Apple person by any chance? Not sure how they handle security of apps and permissions. Permissions are so that you are aware of what the appl will require.

6. Download a different app for the Pebble Steel, because the Pebble and Pebble Steel are FIRST generation watches using a different firmware than the Pebble Time and Pebble Time Steel. it asks you in case a user installs the wrong app for the wrong watch.

7. The account should have been setup already if you own a 1st Gen Pebble or Pebble Time, so that answers point 2. It allows you to backup all your apps to your Pebble Account. Same as Google Accounts and Apple Accounts. Same thing.

8. My setup took about 5 minutes to complete. Not sure why your took so long. Bluetooth permissions on your phone?

9. Software, have some bloody patience?

10. It's a standard watchface, but the app give you an option to install other watchfaces out of the box. Try not rushing through the setup and take your time.

11. Other watchfaces and apps are in the Pebble Store. DUH!

12. Stopwatch App is available there as well.

13. The leading Zero, you can customise some watchfaces. Click the Gear icon.

14. It's interface is designed to be simple, you are a bit limited without a touchscreen interface. Give it a chance.

15. And it's not a weather app. It's called Timeline. If you set it up correctly, for it's true purpose, you will see your Google Calendar appointments etc. Go to their website and do some research?

16. Check iFixit for the teardown. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Pebble+Time+Teardown/42382

17. Stopwatch - App Store, that's what the Pebble and Pebble Time is all about. So you can customised it!

18. With the watchfaces in sunlight, try changing the colours, some are better in sunlight than others.

19. I hope you don't think I'm an ass-hole for this, but your unboxing really made me angry. The Pebble Time is a fantastic product. I own both Pebble and Pebble Time and love them both. I read my email, can reply to text messages with it, answer/reject phone calls, stop/start/skip my music, all sorts of amazing things. I can even control my LIFX light at home, or even anywhere around the world from my Pebble Watch. I love your EEVBLog, but this made me really angry.

[techhelper1]

OMG.. I'm sorry but I'm going to take a deep breath so I tone down my comments about your unboxing video Dave.

I'm a big fan of your Blog and love watching every video you upload. Great work! Keep it up!

1. I know you don't hold back and tell it like it is, and criticise things if they are not good, but you've gone a bit too far and jumped the gun on a few issues.

2. It's second generation, NOT 3rd. 1st was Pebble and Pebble Steel. 2nd was Pebble Time and Pebble Time Steel. Get your details correct

2. Have you owned the original Pebble watch and had experience with it?

3. Initial boot screen. The purpose of this watch is to link to your smartphone. If you just press the Back button, it would go to it's unlinked watch mode. But then you would be missing all the benefits of the Pebble Time.

4. When you first get ANY device the first step is to ensure you have the latest firmware.

5. Every App in Android has permssions. Are you an Apple person by any chance? Not sure how they handle security of apps and permissions. Permissions are so that you are aware of what the appl will require.

6. Download a different app for the Pebble Steel, because the Pebble and Pebble Steel are FIRST generation watches using a different firmware than the Pebble Time and Pebble Time Steel. it asks you in case a user installs the wrong app for the wrong watch.

7. The account should have been setup already if you own a 1st Gen Pebble or Pebble Time, so that answers point 2. It allows you to backup all your apps to your Pebble Account. Same as Google Accounts and Apple Accounts. Same thing.

8. My setup took about 5 minutes to complete. Not sure why your took so long. Bluetooth permissions on your phone?

9. Software, have some bloody patience?

10. It's a standard watchface, but the app give you an option to install other watchfaces out of the box. Try not rushing through the setup and take your time.

11. Other watchfaces and apps are in the Pebble Store. DUH!

12. Stopwatch App is available there as well.

13. The leading Zero, you can customise some watchfaces. Click the Gear icon.

14. It's interface is designed to be simple, you are a bit limited without a touchscreen interface. Give it a chance.

15. And it's not a weather app. It's called Timeline. If you set it up correctly, for it's true purpose, you will see your Google Calendar appointments etc. Go to their website and do some research?

16. Check iFixit for the teardown. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Pebble+Time+Teardown/42382

17. Stopwatch - App Store, that's what the Pebble and Pebble Time is all about. So you can customised it!

18. With the watchfaces in sunlight, try changing the colours, some are better in sunlight than others.

19. I hope you don't think I'm an ass-hole for this, but your unboxing really made me angry. The Pebble Time is a fantastic product. I own both Pebble and Pebble Time and love them both. I read my email, can reply to text messages with it, answer/reject phone calls, stop/start/skip my music, all sorts of amazing things. I can even control my LIFX light at home, or even anywhere around the world from my Pebble Watch. I love your EEVBLog, but this made me really angry.

Agreed.

[TheAmmoniacal]

I agree with all your comments. I do believe it should be a watch first and foremost, all the smart stuff should be a bonus on top. This unboxing makes me want to see you try the Microsoft Band though, try to get one!

[EEVblog]

19. I hope you don't think I'm an ass-hole for this, but your unboxing really made me angry.

You aren't an arse-anyhing, you are just making a mountain out a molehill. Relax a bit.

The Pebble Time is a fantastic product. I own both Pebble and Pebble Time and love them both.

You're a fanboy, I get it.

[tocsa120ls]

Well the only thing that I don't agree with is that there are no default apps on it.
As a smartphone user this seems like a good idea to me... every smartphone no matter what platform will have some uninstallable apps that just go into a folder marked "Junk" and use precious storage forever.
BTW I owned a semi-smart watch once, and I shall never again own one.
It was sold as a bundle with my old SonyEricsson W series phone - a SonyEriccson MBW-150. They actually did the right thing and contracted the watch movement and housing to Fossil and embedded a small, I think 96x16 OLED display, it was a wonderful piece of kit, I usually had to charge it every two weeks. It could control the music player, mute/divert a call, notify texts. (some blessed souls even wrote Android support for them) Problem was that the display was a first gen OLED display that first dimmed then died completely. The bluetooth link and all functions are still working, the display is just dead. By then, SONY was really shitty about supporting these watches, basically they were like either buy a new one or threw the old one away, no replacement, no service.
I don't need social media, weather, news or any of this shit on a watch. The MBW series was great because it looked like a nice midprice analogue watch but it had cool features. These new smartwatches  look like a piece of river rock that you strapped to your wrist with the lowest possible quality materials. No haute horologie, no nothing. Throwaway pieces, make you look like a douche (or worse, a mugging victim) -- waste of money.

[EEVblog]

Well the only thing that I don't agree with is that there are no default apps on it.
As a smartphone user this seems like a good idea to me... every smartphone no matter what platform will have some uninstallable apps that just go into a folder marked "Junk" and use precious storage forever.

I agree. But some things are really basic functionality people expect in a digital watch, like a stopwatch and timer. They should be there by default.
The Music screen is installed by default! Why do I need that?

[loneoceans]

19. I hope you don't think I'm an ass-hole for this, but your unboxing really made me angry.

You aren't an arse-anyhing, you are just making a mountain out a molehill. Relax a bit.

The Pebble Time is a fantastic product. I own both Pebble and Pebble Time and love them both.

You're a fanboy, I get it.

 

I watched this episode being quite interested since I had heard a lot of good things about the Pebble Watch online, but was at the same time confused about how some of my friends who had bought smart watches like the LG and Asus watches were... now switching back to their original watches.

So far though, I'm really not sure if I see the value proposition in the pebble smart watch yet? I think I can understand a bit more if the watch could do more things like health tracking, but when practicality sets in, it seems to me from the people I have talked to that notifications alone seems to be mostly a novelty since.. people use their phones anyway and it's difficult to do proper actions on the notifications besides basic triaging and short replies, and might end up taking even more time to finally complete the action. 

Here's an article I came across today which I think is somewhat related: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/06/the-internet-of-things-you-dont-really-need/396485/ It's not specifically about smart-watches, but I think it raises some good points.

[EEVblog]

So far though, I'm really not sure if I see the value proposition in the pebble smart watch yet?

The value is in the instant notifications. Missed call, SMS, Facebook/Twitter obsessed people etc without having to get your phone out of your pocket.

[JoeN]

But does it play Angry Birds or not?   

[TheAmmoniacal]

I only use my "smart watch" (I got a Band) as a glorified notifications bar, immediately sorting my mail and messages - and receiving them discreetly. I'm surprised at how useful this has been though, I no longer reach for my phone every half an hour to check my mail and messages (and at the same time just check this and that). But I'm the kind of person who wants to answer important emails and messages quickly.

[Armxnian]

I'm not very impressed after seeing the watch. It looks fairly ugly, like a watch you would get at Walmart for 5 bucks.

I also would prefer full color and a touch screen. The moto 360 has those and is only $50 more. Battery life is the only concern, but the products from apple and samsung for example last a day. I would honestly prefer charging a device every day rather than every 4-7 days at random. It will be like my TI nspire calculator. You don't need to charge it every day after use, but you try and use it one day and it says critical battery... if it's not regular you just forget about it.

[codeboy2k]

when I was younger I had an LCD watch that could tell the time as soon as you bought it.  It had a lithium battery that lasted 7 years

[daqq]

Soooo, it's a smartphone extension, that doubles as a watch? I'm sorry, but I find this device utterly useless.

The value is in the instant notifications. Missed call, SMS, Facebook/Twitter obsessed people etc without having to get your phone out of your pocket.

So, I'm going to get notified that I have to take out my smartphone? I thought that was what vibration motors inside of he phone were for? Eh... whatever works/is "needed" I guess...

[malaire]

Soooo, it's a smartphone extension, that doubles as a watch? I'm sorry, but I find this device utterly useless.

The value is in the instant notifications. Missed call, SMS, Facebook/Twitter obsessed people etc without having to get your phone out of your pocket.

So, I'm going to get notified that I have to take out my smartphone? I thought that was what vibration motors inside of he phone were for? Eh... whatever works/is "needed" I guess...

I have used my original Pebble for 1.5 years now and would never go back. The value is in getting instant discreet notification AND short snippet of all email*, SMSs and alerts to your watch. Instead of needing to get my phone out I can just glance my watch to see what this is about and whether it is something important I need act on now or if I can move it to later.

*) I can of course filter emails on my email account so that I don't actually get notified of *all*.

[malaire]

I also would prefer full color and a touch screen. The moto 360 has those and is only $50 more. Battery life is the only concern, but the products from apple and samsung for example last a day. I would honestly prefer charging a device every day rather than every 4-7 days at random. It will be like my TI nspire calculator. You don't need to charge it every day after use, but you try and use it one day and it says critical battery... if it's not regular you just forget about it.

For me battery life of original Pebble is 10-12 days when it was also promised about 7 days. I don't have Pebble Time yet, so can't say if it can go over what is promised or not. (I have backlight disables since I don't need that.)

[EEVblog]

So, I'm going to get notified that I have to take out my smartphone?

No, it displays who called, or the text message etc. You can even use the internal mic to dictate a reply apparently.

[station240]

I have to agree with Dave, the initial setup looks like a nightmare.
It's akin to buying a new laptop, getting it home to find out you have to install the entire OS before you can use it. And then faff about for hours configuring things and installing software.

I challenge the Pebble SmartWatch fans to give a new boxed one to someone who knows nothing about them, and see how they cope with the printed instructions only. Likely it will end up back in it's box.

[hamdi.tn]

After watching this am sure Dave good to have an other channel named 'EE Sins' 
Yeah unboxing the thing made me nervous ... it's a watch it should have a watch at least out of the box, updating connecting and app adding should be user choice.

[Fungus]

After watching this am sure Dave good to have an other channel named 'EE Sins' 
Yeah unboxing the thing made me nervous ... it's a watch it should have a watch at least out of the box, updating connecting and app adding should be user choice.

A 'watch' where the battery only lasts 7 days?

I'm torn as to whether that's a good idea or not. Hopefully the people who buy this know what to expect.

But yeah, there seems to be some basic lack of thought. eg. Not building in a few different watch faces, going to 'music' by default, etc. (that last one can be configurable but I wouldn't make it the first thing everybody sees, every single time).

My Question: How far away from your phone can you be and still get alerts?

[Muttley Snickers]

Or how far under water, I recall that he has some dastardly plans to run it through it's paces, next time the teardown of the warranty papers should come after the testing just in case, otherwise a pebble in a dry riverbed would be more useful.

I use a sundial personally, the power supply hasn't failed me yet.


Muttley

[hamdi.tn]

My Question: How far away from your phone can you be and still get alerts?

i don't think it will do better than any other BLE device, 10m top

[ornea]

Or how far under water, I recall that he has some dastardly plans to run it through
it's paces, next time the teardown of the warranty papers should come after the
testing just in case, otherwise a pebble in a dry riverbed would be more useful.

I use a sundial personally, the power supply hasn't failed me yet.


Muttley

They always seem to fail before sunset until after sunrise and sometimes during eclipses and overcast days. 

[rs20]

So, I'm going to get notified that I have to take out my smartphone? I thought that was what vibration motors inside of he phone were for?

I really like my smart watch because it improves these usecases:
-- The phone can be on silent in my backpack while I'm cycling, and I can still get and see notifications (and see whether they are worth getting my phone out to handle*)
-- Then the same phone can be in my pocket at work, still silent during the meeting, still get notifications. The point is, wearing a watch is the great invariant throughout your day; having a phone in your pocket and being in a position to take it out is not. Before, I'd miss notifications because my phone was on silent in my backpack, or disturb meetings because it was wasn't.
-- When getting driving directions with my phone, I can just safely glance at the watch to see the next direction (know which lane to be in well in advance; rather than nervously waiting for the next voice announcement to suddenly arrive). All while the phone screen is completely off, which is good for the battery life of the phone.
-- And combinations thereof; directions while cycling in particular.
-- And yes, you can dictate a reply -- although you look a bit weird doing this in public. During driving though, absolutely. None of this only getting the phone unlocked and then the lights turn green again.

I'm not arguing that it's not a first-world-problems luxury item; it surely is -- but I really like it and these arguments that it is intrinsically worthless are simply incorrect. The improvements that it makes are slight but very numerous and it really stacks up.

Crucially though -- it is not for people that already wear a normal watch. If you wear a normal watch, then you need the battery life of a normal watch, and you'll only be annoyed by a smartwatch. Maybe dual-wield, I dunno.

[ornea]

Don't you think your screaming outbursts of frustration are starting to get a bit over the top? Damn, you're pissed off by everything...

Of course you have to create a damned account, don't you understand the point of a smartwatch? And of course it needs lots of privileges on your phone, it ties into almost everything. That's the point! And who gives a flying toss whether it tells the time out of the box - it tells you how to configure it out of the box, isn't that preferable??

I thought it was the right balance of rant and review.  And not pissed of by everything, there was clearly features that Dave liked.

Keep 'em coming Dave. Look forward to the teardown, curious how you are going to get it open.

[EEVblog]

I thought it was the right balance of rant and review.  And not pissed of by everything, there was clearly features that Dave liked.

Apart from the out-of-box experience, I liked most things about it. But the fanboys and people who foam at the mouth about how harsh I was don't see this, they just hear what they want to hear.
Remember, the video was an unboxing and first impressions video. I unboxed it and gave my first impressions, raw.
Not my fault I'm not a fanboy or previous user who might have gone softer on the issues.
Not my fault the thing didn't setup seamlessly when I followed the (incomplete) instructions.

[McBryce]

A 'watch' where the battery only lasts 7 days?

7 days isn't bad, the Apple watch only gets 18 hours

I'm sure the pebble thingy is well designed, but I just can't see the point. People who are "communication obsessed" will like it, but I don't check my phone at all unless it vibrates and if I happen to be in the car on on my bike at the time, I wait until I get to my destination to check it. In fact I don't always have my phone with me, it stays at home quite often, but then again I come from a generation that lived quite happily for several decades with phones that had a cable going into the wall and a dial to choose the number you wanted to call.

McBryce.

[rs20]

I heard about this watch recently. I'm not going to buy another watch but it is intriguing all the same. It's called a "slow" watch.
https://www.slow-watches.com/

No-one has ever looked at a watch and thought "11... wait is that 11am or 11pm?". Get rid of the minute hand, sure, but using a 24-hour rather than a 12-hour hour hand just throws your intuition out the window and halves the resolution you can see. Evidently I'm missing the point.

[EEVblog]

I don't check my phone at all unless it vibrates and if I happen to be in the car on on my bike at the time, I wait until I get to my destination to check it. In fact I don't always have my phone with me, it stays at home quite often, but then again I come from a generation that lived quite happily for several decades with phones that had a cable going into the wall and a dial to choose the number you wanted to call.

Same here. I rarely get or make calls, and if do it's usually the wife. Since employing David2, I think my phone usage has quadrupled (he's a young hip phone dude).
The main use my phone gets is tweeting something, and a bit of surfing when out and about, or Google mapping in the car.
I actually find people calling me (mobile or land line) often intrusive.
Phone company sales conversations usually go like this:
Sales: "You can get $1000 worth of phone calls a month for free!"
Me: "But I hardly make any calls"
Sales: "So you'd like a plan with $500 worth of calls?"
Me: "No, I make about $5 worth of calls a month"
Sales: long pause
Sales: "But the $500 plan has much cheaper calls"
Me: "Let me do the math for you...."
 

[EEVblog]

No-one has ever looked at a watch and thought "11... wait is that 11am or 11pm?". Get rid of the minute hand, sure, but using a 24-hour rather than a 12-hour hour hand just throws your intuition out the window and halves the resolution you can see. Evidently I'm missing the point.

They are still popular in some circles, but most have the 24/0 at the top, not the 12!
Why you'd go against this defacto standard I have no idea.

[gemby]

I got mine a week ago, have no pairing issues at all. I already know about app and registration, so i did it weeks before watch come in. But since it is one time process, it is not a big deal, so Dave, c'mon, you are overeacting.

One more thing, which is even more cool: https://cloudpebble.net cloud for app development for pebble, and the coolest thing is that when you have working app, you can either test it on online emulator, or you can instantly push app OTA to your very watch. Not to mention some custom push notifications, etc. Here: https://developer.getpebble.com  is lot of documentation, libraryies  and code examples, for both pebble, and for companion apps on smartphones.

[rs20]

They are still popular in some circles, but most have the 24/0 at the top, not the 12!
Why you'd go against this defacto standard I have no idea.

If the hand represented the position of the sun, having 12 at the top might actually make more sense!
...
I'll let myself out.

[george graves]

A little disappointed in the review.  Nothing a 12 year old youtuber couldn't (and will do) over and over again in the next few weeks.

But this did make me laugh...

You're a fanboy, I get it.

[Muttley Snickers]

I am already at the overload point of things that need charging and firmware updates. Not having any more thank you.

I agree 100%, which by the way is never the retained percentage of the battery that you left the gadget in after it was fully charged and packed away, these new devices with almost integrated batteries such as tablets are not what I am used to. Much prefer to fully disconnect and reset a clock on next power up if required.

Muttley

 

[Artlav]

As a software person, what makes me angry is the lack of it being open source or at least documented.
So you could wipe the thing and write your own stuff.
With the kind of hardware it have, i can imagine making the battery last a month would be easy just by crap removal and some optimizations.

I have the older Pebble, and it is so completely useless without an ability to customize.

[sleemanj]

This whole thread just makes me realise I am SO not the target market for this sort of thing.

Not only am I seldom within 10 meters of my "smart" phone (a G1) even on the rare occasion I remember to actually switch it on (let alone charge it), but I never wear a watch either :-/

[EEVblog]

I would advise against taking it in the mud. Small bits of grit could work their way into the buttons or the seal and compromise the water resistance.

That's kinda the point.

[EEVblog]

One more thing, which is even more cool: https://cloudpebble.net cloud for app development for pebble, and the coolest thing is that when you have working app, you can either test it on online emulator, or you can instantly push app OTA to your very watch. Not to mention some custom push notifications, etc. Here: https://developer.getpebble.com  is lot of documentation, libraryies  and code examples, for both pebble, and for companion apps on smartphones.

That does look pretty cool. Even a dummy like me might be able to write an app.

[ornea]

It's called a "slow" watch.
https://www.slow-watches.com/

If I had a website selling watches, all the watches would be animated with a freegeoip.net lookup to display the visitors time on them.

[amyk]

In other words it's just a glorified remote control for your smartphone that you can wear on your wrist... and incidentally it can be coaxed into being a watch.

[Grapsus]

It's funny how people used to imagine how we would all have flying cars and clean unlimited energy in the future. Instead we spend an hour to start a damn watch that can't tell time. 

Seriously, even if I'd never buy one, I thought this new pebble would be cool with its ink display. But it looks just like another "internet of things" crap. With 20 million bucks don't they have a panel of real people to survey in order to smooth the user experience and ship the watch with features that bring at least some value ? At this stage it really makes me think of the home automation market: lots of companies try to make products, there is a huge expectation, lots of press coverage but in the end it doesn't solve a single damn problem for the user.

Really can't blame Dave for being pissed off here.

[free_electron]

I received mine a couple of days a go.
I did not have so much trouble as Dave had.

I did not read any stinking manual and just winged it.

Power on watch. Downloaded App from Apple store ( yeah, i'm on an iphone )
Created account
Watch paired immediately. i hit the green button on the watch ( top button )

I was disappointed in the default watch face , but there's tons in the app store to pick from.

That is the whole idea behind pebble. It is an extention for your smartphone and you if you don't like the UI you can extend it.
As for the lack of stopwatch etc : i'm sure there's an app for that ...

As for firmware updates : good. That means in the time between shipping ad now , they have improved the firmware. So they are on the ball.

Readability. The backlight is a bit dim ...

I only have one gripe. The damn watchband is too small. I gotta stretch it to even close it in the last hole ....

[bitwelder]

I agree with Dave's opinion on this gadget (because, it's a gadget after all).
I find it quite outrageous that a smart watch doesn't show as the first thing the time, or at least ask for time settings. IIRC even when starting a smart phone one of the first settings is language and TIME. But Pebble Time, no, first screen is Music. 

Looking forward for the teardown (I hope to see some good detail on the e-paper screen, and a look on the estimated life of the NOT-replaceable battery)


 

[Fungus]

In other words it's just a glorified remote control for your smartphone that you can wear on your wrist... and incidentally it can be coaxed into being a watch.

Um, yes.

And your point was...?

[Laertes]

I gotta admit, I am very surprised at how Dave just glossed over the fact that it has a custom connector... I seem to recall Dave being very angry about bloody custom connectors in the past... and in that thing, (at least by the way it looks on the video) you could just have fitted a micro-usb on the side where the power button is... instead, you get to pack yet another custom cable for your stuff. Apart from the fact that I'm not the greatest fan of the concept of smart watches, that on it's own would be an absolute dealbreaker for me.

[PA0PBZ]

Bought my first smart watch some 30 years ago:



Since then I failed to see the point and still do. Haven't used a normal watch in like 10 years either.

[Lightages]

I am torn between being a gadget nerd and not seeing the point.

[adcurtin]

No one's posted about this yet, but every time you said e-ink, I cringed. Pebble is not e-ink, at all. E-ink is magnetic beads, is slow, takes no power to display a static image, and any light for it is a front light. Pebble uses e-paper (which e-ink is technically a part of, but that's beside the point). It uses a Sharp Memory LCD. It can be backlit (like in the pebble), but it is also great in direct sunlight. The memory LCD also takes nanoamps of current to hold a static image, but up in the milliamps to update the display (and the display in the Time is updated by column, so if you have a watchface with a seconds hand, it's gonna have to update a lot of the columns every second, and that will really hurt battery life). It can also do a decent framerate, unlike most e-inks.

Also, you said you plan to do a teardown. FYI if you tear down the pebble time, you will not be able to use it again most likely. ifixit did a good teardown (with some assistance / commentary from some pebble engineers too, that hopefully will earn them some credibility in your book).

Overall, knowing a ton about the pebble, and having used the OG pebble since the first kickstarter, I was quite disappointed in this video.

[wraper]

I gotta admit, I am very surprised at how Dave just glossed over the fact that it has a custom connector... I seem to recall Dave being very angry about bloody custom connectors in the past... and in that thing, (at least by the way it looks on the video) you could just have fitted a micro-usb on the side where the power button is... instead, you get to pack yet another custom cable for your stuff. Apart from the fact that I'm not the greatest fan of the concept of smart watches, that on it's own would be an absolute dealbreaker for me.

Micro USB in the watch? You must be crazy. It will be full of dirt and likely corrode within a few months. Not to say this watch is water resistant. Also there is really not much place to put it inside.

[McBryce]

If I had a website selling watches, all the watches would be animated with a freegeoip.net lookup to display the visitors time on them.

Like this:
http://www.uhrzeit.org/atomuhr.php

McBryce.

[old gregg]

that thing is the ugliest thing on earth.

So you need a smartphone to boot it up and you get a "smartwatch" which does everything (expect clear display of time) that your smartphone, in your pocket, also does ?

I guess Consumerism has no limits 

[Neganur]

hmm looks interesting enough to make me want to try one, but EUR 250 is too much for an impulse buy.
I'll wait a bit while I look at the available apps.

[EEVblog]

I gotta admit, I am very surprised at how Dave just glossed over the fact that it has a custom connector...

It's waterproof, so you expect that.

[EEVblog]

Why did you choose a pebble instead of an apply watch? Or do you have both? I thought that life is easier if you stay within the Apple ecosystem. I'm looking in from outside. Just wondering.

I don't have Apple anything.

[Wilksey]

Music? Does it have decent speakers or a headphone jack?

It seems to have a Cortex M3 inside from the iFixIt Teardown, quite impressive how much they have packed inside such a small case, they destroyed the screen just getting to the battery though, so throw away item when the battery no longer recharges.
I like the memory display, anyone know what model this is (display) I could only find a 8 colour display on the Sharp website, I thought this had more?  I might be wrong.

It is purely a gadget though, something to pave the way for a more professional approach, I cannot entertain a "watch" that doesn't tell you the time without having to download an "app" first, it isn't really "smart", it can't browse the internet.

A watch that needs to be recharged every 6 or 7 days is not what I would want.  A watch that needs pre-configuring using a smart phone (presume it uses BLE over classic?) is not something that appeals to me either.   Technology wise it is impressive, day to day usability as a replacement for my existing time telling machine, useless.

Registration, cloud, apps, it's a bloody watch! 

[0b01010011]

agreed - made for a hilarious unboxing from Dave though which we have to be thankful for!

[Lightages]

If it is a throw away when the battery dies, no thanks. We have enough technological pollution already.

[Muttley Snickers]

Not at all related but I am reminded of the tamagotchi nightmares that we had to endure some years back, sadly they all disappeared one night and we never did find out exactly where they all went.

Family members may stumble across this so I will say no more...


Muttley

[bitwelder]

I gotta admit, I am very surprised at how Dave just glossed over the fact that it has a custom connector...

By the way, from the video it seemed like the connector doesn't have a fixed orientation, does the charger provide AC voltage?

[hayatepilot]

I gotta admit, I am very surprised at how Dave just glossed over the fact that it has a custom connector...

By the way, from the video it seemed like the connector doesn't have a fixed orientation, does the charger provide AC voltage?

I doubt it, the cable has a normal USB connector on the other end. You can also pass DC through a bridge rectifier and the voltage comes out the right way all the time. 

Greetings

[McBryce]

Not at all related but I am reminded of the tamagotchi nightmares
that we had to endure some years back, sadly they all disappeared
one night and we never did find out exactly where they all went.

Family members may stumble across this so I will say no more...

Muttley

Pebble converted them all into Smart watches

Regarding the charging connector/clip. The two magnets on either side are probably of opposite polarity so that it will only stay connected in one direction (without taping / nailing / glueing it to the thing that is). I doubt it's being fed AC.

McBryce.

[Muttley Snickers]

The device in it's current form is simply not practical for our use because of the exposed metal surfaces, we work in electrical cabinets and communications enclosures so no metal jewellery.

A question for those in the know, could the device be tethered to other more practical equipment such as the Mooshimeter or the Agilent Bluetooth meters, this application would have a greater appeal should I ever come across one in the future, and is anyone aware of a device that acts as a Bluetooth extender which could then potentially render the watch suitable for smaller nurse call and similar applications.

Muttley
 

[rs20]

A question for those in the know, could the device be tethered to other more practical equipment such
as the Mooshimeter or the Agilent bluetooth meters?

It would be straightforward to write a phone app that read reading from a Bluetooth Meyer, and then relayed that onto the watch. So this is certainly straightforward if you allow a phone to be in the room.

But direct meter-to-watch communication might be essentially impossible, I don't think either is set up to be a host.

[bitwelder]

Regarding the charging connector/clip. The two magnets on either side are probably of opposite polarity so that it will only stay connected in one direction (without taping / nailing / glueing it to the thing that is). I doubt it's being fed AC.

Indeed, thinking that it's fed via USB, it's likely DC.
However, I wonder if they have anyway a bridge rectifier inside the watch, as even if the magnets do not allow the connector to stay plugged 'the wrong way', it's probably still possible to make contact with inverted polarity by holding it with a finger.

[free_electron]

IIRC even when starting a smart phone one of the first settings is language and TIME. But Pebble Time, no, first screen is Music. 

if you have to set the time on a smartphone the designers should be shot.

Even a 20 year old dumb phone can automatically set its clock form the network provider...

[McBryce]

Indeed, thinking that it's fed via USB, it's likely DC.
However, I wonder if they have anyway a bridge rectifier inside the watch, as even if the magnets do not allow the connector to stay plugged 'the wrong way', it's probably still possible to make contact with inverted polarity by holding it with a finger.

A simple diode would sort that out.

McBryce.

[cpuerror]

I'm not sure if the energy density is good enough but I think a super cap instead of a battery is ideal for these applications. Fast recharge and infinite cycles.
Also, an ultra thin solar panel under the watch LCD to catch stray light and help top up the charge could help as well.
The only thing I don't like about this watch is that you have to hand over everything to Pebble, photos, contacts, SMS messages, probably location too I imagine, for the device to even function. I don't want to purchase any device that is totally dependent on the internet and an active account and uploading my personal details to who knows where.

[rs20]

I'm not sure if the energy density is good enough but I think a super cap instead of a battery is ideal for these applications...

The energy density is not good enough. People are complaining about the battery life already, slashing it to put a supercap in is a terrible idea.

[max_torque]

Who the heck has time(sic) in their life for this sort of stuff??

  I have a smart phone and i have a watch.  Job done.

[fubar.gr]

I hate devices that can't work on their own  (even with just some basic functionality) and require elaborate schemes (like creating an account on some website and using a mobile app) just to get going.

What if in a few years time the mother company goes south? The required mobile app drops off the store, there's no way to create an account and you end up with a glorified paperweight.

[Fungus]

What if in a few years time the mother company goes south? The required mobile app drops off the store, there's no way to create an account and you end up with a glorified paperweight.

The internal battery will be useless by then, so ... no big deal.

This thing isn't designed to last for the rest of your life. If that's a problem for you then you're not the target market.

Even a 20 year old dumb phone can automatically set its clock form the network provider...

The "dumb phone" has GSM radio and a SIM card in it. This doesn't.

[adcurtin]

It doesn't have a modem. The only radio it has is Bluetooth.

Bluetooth which hooks up to your phone, which does have a modem… Yes, the pebble will sync time over from your phone. Daylight savings and all that too. (so the accuracy of the timekeeping in the pebble is less of a concern unless you're using it standalone).


As for the power connector, there is no rectifier for that. The two gold pins are not power and ground, rather they are both +5v. (one of those two pins on the watch is for communication with smartstraps, and it obviously 5v tolerant). The ground is actually connected through the magnets. check out the last bullet point in step 10 of the ifixit teardown, it shows the spring contact on the board that connects ground to the magnets. The connector is reversible.

[rs20]

As for the power connector, there is no rectifier for that. The two gold pins are not power and ground, rather they are both +5v. (one of those two pins on the watch is for communication with smartstraps, and it obviously 5v tolerant). The ground is actually connected through the magnets. check out the last bullet point in step 10 of the ifixit teardown, it shows the spring contact on the board that connects ground to the magnets. The connector is reversible.

So from a corrosion-resistance point of view, the weak link is the coating of the magnets?

[SeanB]

Yes, exactly like the Apple Maglock power connector. The coating is likely nickel ( the main ingredient in stainless steel) so the connection will work till you find a pinhole in the coat which will turn the supermagnet material under it to a powder of oxides in a matter of weeks.

[adcurtin]

Yes, exactly like the Apple Maglock power connector. The coating is likely nickel ( the main ingredient in stainless steel) so the connection will work till you find a pinhole in the coat which will turn the supermagnet material under it to a powder of oxides in a matter of weeks.

Neither of Apple's magnetic charging reply on the magnet coating as a contact.

Check out the pinout for Magsafe. Magsafe 2 is the exact same pinout. The magsafe connector even has a rubbery coating over the magnets when new, but that wears off over time (the magnet coating hasn't for me yet)

The Apple Watch uses inductive charging, no contacts at all.

I've have the original pebble for a while, the magnet coating hasn't worn yet (the black coloring wears off quickly, the magnet coating does not). Not something I'd be worried about on the Time.

So from a corrosion-resistance point of view, the weak link is the coating of the magnets?

Yup.

[neotesla]

I guess Consumerism has no limits 

I think it does, the limits of this planet. The way things are going we'll hit those limits in a couple of generations. Useless gadgets* like smartwatches will only get us faster there.

*Given that this smartwatch needs to be paired up with a smartphone, the likelihood is your every move is being logged on some guv'ment/corporate server somewhere, in which case you are the gadget of the smartwatch, not the other way around.

[rs20]

*Given that this smartwatch needs to be paired up with a smartphone, the likelihood is your every move is being logged on some guv'ment/corporate server somewhere, in which case you are the gadget of the smartwatch, not the other way around.

And how exactly does the addition of the smartwatch to the person carrying a smartphone assist the government?

[codeboy2k]

*Given that this smartwatch needs to be paired up with a smartphone, the likelihood is your every move is being logged on some guv'ment/corporate server somewhere, in which case you are the gadget of the smartwatch, not the other way around.

And how exactly does the addition of the smartwatch to the person carrying a smartphone assist the government?

clearly in taxes, by selling more tinfoil   

[apis]

And how exactly does the addition of the smartwatch to the person carrying a smartphone assist the government?

Well, the smartwatch addition does nothing but they are evidently logging the position aka movement of everyone with a cellphone, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a backdoor to remotely and silently activate the microphone. Someone told me they need to install spyware for that first, but I'm not convinced, at least not that they would need physical access to do that. Anyway, the big problem is that they have begun collecting data on everyone and saving it for future use (since someone realized that hard drives are now cheap enough), after all anyone is a potential terrorist/criminal in the future. Sorry, know I this is off topic!

[kcozens]

Wow. A product that you can't use unless you have an iPhone or an Android smartphone? The watch would be useless to me as I don't own a smartphone and have no plans to ever own one. You are right that they should have provided a better default watch face. Better still would have been provide two different ones out of the box that you can choose between without having to download them to the watch. Still, an interesting device for those who feel they can find a use for it.

[rs20]

Wow. A product that you can't use unless you have an iPhone or an Android smartphone? The watch would be useless to me as I don't own a smartphone and have no plans to ever own one. You are right that they should have provided a better default watch face. Better still would have been provide two different ones out of the box that you can choose between without having to download them to the watch. Still, an interesting device for those who feel they can find a use for it.

I just read about some boats for sale. Wow. A product that you can't use unless you live near a lake or an ocean? That boat would be useless to me as I live inland, and have no plans to ever move to the coast. Still, an interesting idea for those who feel they live near the ocean I suppose.

[McBryce]

I just read about some boats for sale. Wow. A product that you can't use unless you live near a lake or an ocean? That boat would be useless to me as I live inland, and have no plans to ever move to the coast. Still, an interesting idea for those who feel they live near the ocean I suppose.

  Thanks! You've just solved that issue I had with my new boat! So that loud scratching sound seems to be due to lack of water. Doh! anyone want to buy a relatively new but badly scratched boat?

McBryce.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Wow. A product that you can't use unless you have an iPhone or an Android smartphone? The watch would be useless to me as I don't own a smartphone and have no plans to ever own one. You are right that they should have provided a better default watch face. Better still would have been provide two different ones out of the box that you can choose between without having to download them to the watch. Still, an interesting device for those who feel they can find a use for it.

I just read about some boats for sale. Wow. A product that you can't use unless you live near a lake or an ocean? That boat would be useless to me as I live inland, and have no plans to ever move to the coast. Still, an interesting idea for those who feel they live near the ocean I suppose.

I would concede your point if it was self-explanatory that a Pebble Time Smartwatch required a smartphone, it's not for me and obviously not for Dave either. None of the marketing seems to suggest it. And neither the title nor the description of the Kickstarter mentioned a smartphone requirement.

[rs20]

I would concede your point if it was self-explanatory that a Pebble Time Smartwatch required a smartphone, it's not for me and obviously not for Dave either. None of the marketing seems to suggest it. And neither the title nor the description of the Kickstarter mentioned a smartphone requirement.

I was more criticizing an inane message than defending smartwatches; and certainly not defending the Pebble in particular. However, I think it's fairly obvious (at least to EEs) that a smartwatch needs a tethered phone to be even remotely smart:
- 2G/3G/4G: Too much battery drain
- Wi-Fi: Not ubiquitous enough
- Bluetooth tether to smartphone: Only option left.

And fussing about how the watch behaves before you get that tether up and running is a bit picky, since even the best case scenario is that it'd be an awful conventional watch with short battery life. Heck, forcing clueless users to tether probably prevents those clueless people from getting confused and failing to end up with a smartwatch. Arguably getting clueless people a working smartwatch is more important that allowing a small minority of hackers the ability to read the time before a phone is tethered.

I have no particular opinion whether they were deceptive on their Kickstarter page. But I think Dave knew perfectly well that a phone tether is required for the watch to be smart in any reasonable sense of the word; he was just saying it should fall back to being a watch in the absence of that tether. As above, I can see arguments either way.

It's interesting/obvious to note that the Google Wear --> Android (and presumably iWatch --> iPhone) tethering process is much more seamless (no new username/password pairs required in particular); but obviously Google and Apple have an advantage being on both sides of the exchange there. Not sure if Pebble could have used OAuth to make their process a bit more seamless? Not sure.

[EEVblog]

I have no particular opinion whether they were deceptive on their Kickstarter page. But I think Dave knew perfectly well that a phone tether is required for the watch to be smart in any reasonable sense of the word;

I'll repeat ad nauseam, I was simply disappointed it didn't do anything at all out of the box.
I don't see why so many people made such a huge deal over this 
It was personally what I expected, what's so wrong with that?
The fanboy-ism with smartwatches has only been surpassed by the shear hatred of the waterproof fanboys who thought me not knowing it actually meant a true 30m pressure (as opposed to what most of the watch industry has used for decades) was the greatest crime against humanity 

It's all been rather hilarious watching them foam at the mouth 

he was just saying it should fall back to being a watch in the absence of that tether.

I did not say that. But the watch does indeed do that. It works fine as a watch without a phone once you set it up.

[EEVblog]

I would concede your point if it was self-explanatory that a Pebble Time Smartwatch required a smartphone, it's not for me and obviously not for Dave either.

I knew very well it needed to be tethered to a phone to do most of the useful stuff. Do I have a real need for it? No, I just wanted to check it out and do a video on it and teardown.

[TheAmmoniacal]

I knew very well it needed to be tethered to a phone to do most of the useful stuff. Do I have a real need for it? No, I just wanted to check it out and do a video on it and teardown.

To do most of the useful stuff, yes - but to do anything at all? If I remember correctly you couldn't get past the "getpebble.com/app" screen without actually getting the app. I would be surprised if the watch had anything more than just a bootloader when they shipped it.

[adcurtin]

The fanboy-ism with smartwatches has only been surpassed by the shear hatred of the waterproof fanboys who thought me not knowing it actually meant a true 30m pressure (as opposed to what most of the watch industry has used for decades) was the greatest crime against humanity 

not hatred, not fanboyism. just technical and have a dislike for misinformation. The watch industry standard was updated 5 years ago. That's like saying USB is only 480Mbps, and saying someone who says that it does up to 5Gbps (or is it 10 now?) is opposing the the usb standard that has been in use for decades. (no, it's not a perfect example).

The new standard revises the old one, and the old one has been withdrawn: http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=7100

[EEVblog]

To do most of the useful stuff, yes - but to do anything at all? If I remember correctly you couldn't get past the "getpebble.com/app" screen without actually getting the app. I would be surprised if the watch had anything more than just a bootloader when they shipped it.

Correct, which is why I was a bit peeved it didn't do anything, I just wanted to play with it out of the box. Yet people thought that was the most ridiculous idea ever 

[EEVblog]

not hatred, not fanboyism. just technical and have a dislike for misinformation. The watch industry standard was updated 5 years ago.

Well forgive me for not keeping up to date with watch resistance standards after having known what "30m water resistance" means for many decades, and also having worked in the underwater industry for more than decade pre-2010. Silly me, I should have looked up the latest standard (which I'd have to buy to be absolutely sure) and which is not even updated on wikipedia should I have casual glanced for some basic confirmation.
And silly me for only looking on the Pebble watch website instead of trawling some thread on Reddit which is about the only place the clarification is mentioned.
If Pebble themselves can't even be bothered to clarify it on their website, then how is any reviewer expected to?
Yeah, I'm so dumb 

It's ridiculous the hounding I got over this. It was perfectly reasonable for any person to think "30m water resistance" meant what the old standard and the industry has always said, and what's mentioned on wikipedia and countless other places. Perhaps a clueless reviewer would have taken Pebble's "Water resistant to 30 meters"claim as literally true, but I actually had a clue that this has been a massive industry misinterpretation for decades, and even the big watch makers "Water resistant to 30 meters" watches aren't designed to go to 30m pressure.
So ultimately I was wrong, so what, no need to get your knickers in a knot over it.

It most certainly is fanboyism and hatred, as I virtually never get this sort of response when I get other technical things wrong in my videos.

[rs20]

Correct, which is why I was a bit peeved it didn't do anything, I just wanted to play with it out of the box. Yet people thought that was the most ridiculous idea ever 

I wouldn't say it's a ridiculous idea at all, and I can understand the frustration. I, for one, enjoyed the video enormously. But fwiw, I think it might be good user design to prioritize {getting dumb users to actually tether their smartwatch} over {giving video blogger (singular) an instantaneous out-of-box experience} -- I mean, imagine handing a phone and an out-of-box Pebble watch displaying just the time to <insert-technically-non-savvy-family-member-here>. That wouldn't end well, having the watch stubbornly demand tethering is the only way that Donaldbert is going to tether that phone*. I just find the presumption (not necessarily expressed by you, Dave) that this out-of-box experience is an oversight (or due to laziness) a bit odd; I can easily see it being a very deliberate and valid design decision. At the same time, it is rather Appleish and anti-hacker, and I would find it frustrating too if I was vlogging.

The fact that the Pebble Steel has a dedicated, separate app is certainly lazy and crazy, as is the need for a Pebble login+password.

* Disclaimer: success with stubborn watch not guaranteed.

[EEVblog]

I just find the presumption (not necessarily expressed by you, Dave) that this out-of-box experience is an oversight (or due to laziness) a bit odd; I can easily see it being a very deliberate and valid design decision. At the same time, it is rather Appleish and anti-hacker, and I would find it frustrating too if I was vlogging.

The thing is that I had no clue what to expect when opening the box. This was the first smart watch I've ever used. It's not like I sat down and thought about what I expected from this thing before opening, I just opened it and that was my natural response. Something in me expected it to do something, anything, a demo maybe, I don't know.
Perhaps part of it was a desire to actually show it doing something on camera before I had to go an setup and tether the whole thing. From a reviewer point of view that's kinda frustrating.
Of course I understand if they did it deliberately, doesn't mean I have to like it, or as many fanboys want me to think "that's just the way smartwatches are". I call BS on that notion.

[adcurtin]

So ultimately I was wrong, so what, no need to get your knickers in a knot over it.

It most certainly is fanboyism and hatred, as I virtually never get this sort of response when I get other technical things wrong in my videos.

I posted a clarifying article from pebble's website (albeit for the old pebble), said I was disappointed in your (rightful) misunderstanding of the rating and you told me I was wrong. Yes, I understand you have lots of experience, but if you can't admit you made a mistake, experience isn't worth salt. I made one other post with more sources and clarifying details. I never called you dumb, I never even directly called you wrong. The harshest words I used were misunderstanding and disappointed. If that's hatred and fanboyism, I've got nothing more to say.

[EEVblog]

I posted a clarifying article from pebble's website (albeit for the old pebble), said I was disappointed in your (rightful) misunderstanding of the rating and you told me I was wrong. Yes, I understand you have lots of experience, but if you can't admit you made a mistake, experience isn't worth salt.

I always admit when I'm wrong and made a mistake. Perhaps you are new here? I've corrected and clarified hundreds of my videos.
BTW, this wasn't a mistake, it was as you said, a rightful misunderstanding based on past and current experience to an issue that is rife in the industry, i.e. companies claiming true 3atm pressure when using the words "30m water resistance". It's so common in the industry is almost a running joke.

I made one other post with more sources and clarifying details. I never called you dumb, I never even directly called you wrong. The harshest words I used were misunderstanding and disappointed. If that's hatred and fanboyism, I've got nothing more to say.

I'm not directing any comments to you personally, it's the whole general vibe of the response, the messages, emails and comments etc I got to this video.

[adcurtin]

Ah, sorry. I didn't see anything else here, but this is probably the most civil place to talk about your videos (and it's not private).
Bleeding edge tech people can be quite harsh. Pebble has had a lot of haters, especially around how they handled some stuff in the Kickstarters, so that might make the fans more vocal and more dickish than normal too (not trying to defend anyone though).

[miguelvp]

It really doesn't matter does it?

I'm glad he actually took it for a torture test because even if 30m is not what it used to be, it's still rated for 3 atmospheres.

In any event wilfred already covered that back on page 3 so it's old news and the watch managed to handle at least a 50m rating, well maybe not because he wasn't really swimming hard enough to put 5 atm on the watch. Still it was pretty cool to see the thing go through all those obstacles. 

[EEVblog]

Bleeding edge tech people can be quite harsh. Pebble has had a lot of haters, especially around how they handled some stuff in the Kickstarters, so that might make the fans more vocal and more dickish than normal too (not trying to defend anyone though).

Yes, I suspect that is the case.
Although I backed it, I hadn't followed the Kickstarter comments etc. Nor for the previous Kickstarter either. So I was not up on all the talk, debates, what to expect etc. I simply bought one and innocently did an unboxing.
So I think it's a combination of those things that lead to all the kerfuffle. Because like I said, it's been a whole other level of response to my regular videos. The only one that comes close would be the Solar Roadways with it's bunch of "true believers". Or any time I mention Apple 

[sony mavica]

i own this one https://youtu.be/n5bjNqKxB28 for the price its really good