Author Topic: EEVblog #768 - Cordless Anti-Static Wristbands BUSTED! (Read 47825 times)

EEVblog · « **on:** July 17, 2015, 03:18:28 am »

Dave debunks cordless anti-static wristbands you can buy on ebay for $1. Do they do anything at all?
Controlled quantitative static voltage measurements with a surface DC voltmeter are done to prove they are 100% bullshit!
And a direct comparison with a proper anti-static wrist strap and bonding point is included.
And a bonus tutorial on how to calibrate a surface DC voltmeter.
Dave's 555 Timer T-Shirt is here: http://teespring.com/555timer-grey3

pickle9000 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 17, 2015, 03:46:29 am »

Upside down dips are no problem, TO-3's really hurt. Won't stop me going barefooted though.

poot36 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 17, 2015, 03:58:18 am »

I have socks on carpet in my room when I work on electronics. Could you test the foot rub test with socks as well to see what voltages you get?

scopeman · « **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:26:36 am »

Dave,

It looks like if you could find a spare cord somewhere your dollar is not a total loss as you could make a real ESD strap from it!

Sam
W3OHM

station240 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:44:46 am »

Wow, 0.2 cent resistor inside an average build quality wrist strap, just $1 bargain.

Wonder if the seller is the con, or someone in the west ordered 10,000 of this made, then vanished when it was time to pay up.

timelessbeing · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:58:00 am »

I'm disappointed at the lack of "Fail" button use.

EEVblog · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2015, 05:10:56 am »

Quote from: timelessbeing on July 17, 2015, 04:58:00 am

I'm disappointed at the lack of "Fail" button use.

Completely forgot that!

EEVblog · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2015, 05:11:42 am »

Quote from: scopeman on July 17, 2015, 04:26:36 am

It looks like if you could find a spare cord somewhere your dollar is not a total loss as you could make a real ESD strap from it!

It's a horrible design, wouldn't even trust it for that.

sleemanj · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2015, 05:40:33 am »

A nice simple test setup.

Only thing I would have suggested to really ram it home what this is about, is charging yourself up separately from the plate, then touching the plate to simulate an actual ESD event.

And zapping yourself in the process.

NF6X · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2015, 05:58:44 am »

Thanks for making this video! I've been looking forward to it since you first mentioned your intent to make one.

What I don't get is why they even bothered to include a real resistor inside.

barnacle2k · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:00:29 am »

I can see one possible use case for this thing:

When walking around the office (pvc floor) in the winter (very dry air) one can built up a quite a lot of charge.
So much in fact that it is rather painful to touch any earthed object. (big metal objects are also an option even when not earthed)
In that case one could touch the screw on that strap to the nearest earthed object for a non-painful discharge.

pickle9000 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:06:34 am »

Quote from: barnacle2k on July 17, 2015, 06:00:29 am

I can see one possible use case for this thing:

When walking around the office (pvc floor) in the winter (very dry air) one can built up a quite a lot of charge.
So much in fact that it is rather painful to touch any earthed object. (big metal objects are also an option even when not earthed)
In that case one could touch the screw on that strap to the nearest earthed object for a non-painful discharge.

I wind a resistor on my keychain.

dadler · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:29:15 am »

Maybe cordless means "supply your own cord"? Lost in translation?

Else, why even bother with the 1meg resistor? Save production costs and leave it out...

AlfBaz · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:34:15 am »

What was the thinking behind presuming this would ever work... anodic protection?

pickle9000 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:37:22 am »

Quote from: AlfBaz on July 17, 2015, 06:34:15 am

What was the thinking behind presuming this would ever work... anodic protection?

I'm pretty sure it's hamster related.

rs20 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:46:12 am »

Quote from: AlfBaz on July 17, 2015, 06:34:15 am

What was the thinking behind presuming this would ever work... anodic protection?

The box says it's an antistatic wriststrap, so it must be?

Some of the wireless wrist straps contain lots of very fine hairs of wire which kinda hypothetically work via corona discharge (I'm sure they don't at only 1kV, and the idea that the air itself is neutral/"earthed" is fishy as well). Not saying that this works, indeed I'm quite certain that it doesn't; but what Dave has is arguably a scam copy of a scam, not just a scam. Obviously the 1megaohm resistor is just pointless in any case.

TheSteve · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2015, 07:34:24 am »

Quote from: barnacle2k on July 17, 2015, 06:00:29 am

I can see one possible use case for this thing:

When walking around the office (pvc floor) in the winter (very dry air) one can built up a quite a lot of charge.
So much in fact that it is rather painful to touch any earthed object. (big metal objects are also an option even when not earthed)
In that case one could touch the screw on that strap to the nearest earthed object for a non-painful discharge.

I would assume that is pretty much what it was really designed for. Or perhaps they intend you to touch a grounded object with it each time you sit down at the with bench. Maybe they think that will be good enough ESD protection until you get up and walk again. Either way clearly no replacement for a real ESD strap.

daqq · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2015, 08:25:06 am »

Huh, so it doesn't work? Now there's a shocker!

Thanks for the video Dave! Next up: Directional cables!

McBryce · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2015, 09:07:47 am »

Time for me to start an Indiegogo campaign... Now should my cordless ESD strap use bluetooth or would a Wifi connection discharge quicker?

McBryce.

Ian.M · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2015, 10:45:39 am »

Infrared. See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/static-discharge-using-lasers/

Fungus · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2015, 11:28:59 am »

Quote from: TheSteve on July 17, 2015, 07:34:24 am

I would assume that is pretty much what it was really designed for. Or perhaps they intend you to touch a grounded object with it each time you sit down at the with bench.

Why would you need a wrist strap for that? You can just touch it with your hand.

Much more useful would be an anto-static seat cushion or something like that.

(Maybe sit on a grounded metal spike? I dunno.)

MiataMuc · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2015, 12:24:21 pm »

anti-static car interior would be nice.. hate getting zapped when leaving the car..

vlad777 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2015, 12:35:00 pm »

You should have grubbed with your foot, WITH the real wrist strap ON just to show no buildup.

coppice · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:25:43 pm »

Does anyone make a genuine cordless personal static dissipater? Some type of body worn ioniser, perhaps?

rs20 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:27:47 pm »

Quote from: coppice on July 17, 2015, 01:25:43 pm

Does anyone make a genuine cordless personal static dissipater? Some type of body worn ioniser, perhaps?

Is the atmosphere grounded? (Genuine question)

coppice · « **Reply #25 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:31:43 pm »

Quote from: rs20 on July 17, 2015, 01:27:47 pm

Quote from: coppice on July 17, 2015, 01:25:43 pm
Does anyone make a genuine cordless personal static dissipater? Some type of body worn ioniser, perhaps?
Is the atmosphere grounded? (Genuine question)

Bench mounted ionising static dissipaters work on the basis that opposites attract, and a charged surface will attract only the what is needed to discharge it. They don't depend on a ground.

f4eru · « **Reply #26 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:34:56 pm »

lol, Dave, you need a sign : "Please wear a pair of ESD rated bare feet"

Quote

I have socks on carpet in my room when I work on electronics. Could you test the foot rub test with socks as well to see what voltages you get?

Depends on the material of the carpet ( ESD dissipative carpet ??), the material of the socks, and your sweat. Do you have ESD socks and carpet ? if not, it's not a good idea !!

PGrant · « **Reply #27 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:36:22 pm »

Never stood on an IC, can't imagine it being worse than standing on lego though.

rs20 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:45:25 pm »

Quote from: PGrant on July 17, 2015, 01:36:22 pm

Never stood on an IC, can't imagine it being worse than standing on lego though.

14 little razor blades > 6 blunt plastic bumps.

John Coloccia · « **Reply #29 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:46:52 pm »

Quote from: dadler on July 17, 2015, 06:29:15 am

Maybe cordless means "supply your own cord"? Lost in translation?

Else, why even bother with the 1meg resistor? Save production costs and leave it out...

That what I was thinking too. Something is lost in the translation. Why add that screw to the resistor? It looks better without it, so it clearly has some purpose other than looks.

LordNobady · « **Reply #30 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:48:31 pm »

Quote from: rs20 on July 17, 2015, 01:45:25 pm

Quote from: PGrant on July 17, 2015, 01:36:22 pm
Never stood on an IC, can't imagine it being worse than standing on lego though.
14 little razor blades > 6 blunt plastic bumps.

the lesson is not to keep your spare parts on the floor but use and (ESD) storage bin.

AF6LJ · « **Reply #31 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:52:54 pm »

What I find amazing about this product, is the idea that anybody could fall for such a obvious scam.

amyk · « **Reply #32 on:** July 17, 2015, 02:37:34 pm »

Quote from: John Coloccia on July 17, 2015, 01:46:52 pm

Quote from: dadler on July 17, 2015, 06:29:15 am
Maybe cordless means "supply your own cord"? Lost in translation?

Else, why even bother with the 1meg resistor? Save production costs and leave it out...

That what I was thinking too. Something is lost in the translation. Why add that screw to the resistor? It looks better without it, so it clearly has some purpose other than looks.

Agreed - maybe there's supposed to be a cord and connector attached to the screw, but they ran out of them or this is an "unfinished" item intended to be assembled to a cord.

oxcart · « **Reply #33 on:** July 17, 2015, 02:48:09 pm »

Quote from: daqq on July 17, 2015, 08:25:06 am

Huh, so it doesn't work? Now there's a shocker!

Thanks for the video Dave! Next up: Directional cables!

I back the Audiophooles Directional Cables review request!!
Only problem: how to find them without spending a fortune. Dave, ask a local audiophool group to lend you a couple!

You'd be busting several big bucks companies...

zapta · « **Reply #34 on:** July 17, 2015, 02:50:17 pm »

Here is the prototype of my invisible wristband. Will start taking orders soon.

mmagin · « **Reply #35 on:** July 17, 2015, 03:03:34 pm »

Quote from: dadler on July 17, 2015, 06:29:15 am

Maybe cordless means "supply your own cord"? Lost in translation?

Else, why even bother with the 1meg resistor? Save production costs and leave it out...

Even if that is the intent, I suspect it's an insufficiently safe design to use a tiny 1/8 W resistor which almost certainly doesn't have a sufficient voltage rating for the range of mains voltages that may be encountered in use.

Artlav · « **Reply #36 on:** July 17, 2015, 03:10:30 pm »

Busted, eh?

But the question remains - how do they dissipate static charge on spaceships?
You can't exactly run a grounding cord to the nearest planet.

Ian.M · « **Reply #37 on:** July 17, 2015, 03:30:59 pm »

Get close to docking then release a cloud of pith balls?

Remember, there is no such thing as absolute potential, so in the absence of a dominant reference point like a planet, all you need to do is equalise charge with the other craft in a non-destructive manner.

Ian.M · « **Reply #38 on:** July 17, 2015, 03:39:09 pm »

Quote from: wilfred on July 17, 2015, 03:36:02 pm

Quote from: zapta on July 17, 2015, 02:50:17 pm
Here is the prototype of my invisible wristband. Will start taking orders soon.

Do you have them in other colours?

That one's too small for me. Are you planning to make larger sizes?

Is it comfortable to wear?

Is it washable?

vlad777 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:03:09 pm »

Quote from: barnacle2k on July 17, 2015, 06:00:29 am

I can see one possible use case for this thing:

When walking around the office (pvc floor) in the winter (very dry air) one can built up a quite a lot of charge.
So much in fact that it is rather painful to touch any earthed object. (big metal objects are also an option even when not earthed)
In that case one could touch the screw on that strap to the nearest earthed object for a non-painful discharge.

I think you are right, and this is the purpose of this thing.
At least it was until the marketing people got it in their hands.

vlad777 · « **Reply #40 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:19:09 pm »

Quote from: zapta on July 17, 2015, 02:50:17 pm

Here is the prototype of my invisible wristband. Will start taking orders soon.

I had a strange thought. What kind of queries would bring up this pic on Google images?

sergey · « **Reply #41 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:23:05 pm »

Quote from: amyk on July 17, 2015, 02:37:34 pm

Quote from: John Coloccia on July 17, 2015, 01:46:52 pm
That what I was thinking too. Something is lost in the translation. Why add that screw to the resistor? It looks better without it, so it clearly has some purpose other than looks.
Agreed - maybe there's supposed to be a cord and connector attached to the screw, but they ran out of them or this is an "unfinished" item intended to be assembled to a cord.

On the one hand sounds logical, but still -- the connector doesn't seem reliable at all. Also ratings of the resistor are questionable. Guess 1/8W is fine (it does not dissipate too much power anyway) but think it wouldn't meet voltage requirements?

TheAmmoniacal · « **Reply #42 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:41:06 pm »

Quote from: vlad777 on July 17, 2015, 04:19:09 pm

I had a strange thought. What kind of queries would bring up this pic on Google images?

Try: "arm and hand"

Fungus · « **Reply #43 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:49:57 pm »

Quote from: AF6LJ on July 17, 2015, 01:52:54 pm

What I find amazing about this product, is the idea that anybody could fall for such a obvious scam.

Is it obvious?

I'm not sure if such a thing is possible or not. I can imagine a battery powered device that generates opposite charge to the one at your wrist in order to cancel it out. I don't know how you'd go about making it, but I can imagine it.

(Wrist-mounted Van-Der-Graaf generator?)

free_electron · « **Reply #44 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:51:28 pm »

i think you are reading too much in this products advertisement.

it is exactly what it states : a cordless antitstatic wristband.

it comes without a cord. you need to provide your own ... just list the little screw, slip your cord under it and tighten the screw. the 1 meg resistor is in the case.

AlfBaz · « **Reply #45 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:59:21 pm »

Quote from: Fungus on July 17, 2015, 04:49:57 pm

Quote from: AF6LJ on July 17, 2015, 01:52:54 pm
What I find amazing about this product, is the idea that anybody could fall for such a obvious scam.
Is it obvious?

I'm not sure if such a thing is possible or not. I can imagine a battery powered device that generates opposite charge to the one at your wrist in order to cancel it out. I don't know how you'd go about making it, but I can imagine it.

(Wrist-mounted Van-Der-Graaf generator?)

Easy to test. Silk cloth, glass rod and a battery.
Rub glass rod with cloth and it should attract small pieces of paper, touch rod to negative terminal on battery glass rod should now be chargeless. My bet is it will still be charged

vlad777 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 17, 2015, 05:02:30 pm »

Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on July 17, 2015, 04:41:06 pm

Try: "arm and hand"

Correct! (It is there.) I like this one:

Dave Turner · « **Reply #47 on:** July 17, 2015, 05:31:54 pm »

How about the Emperor's new sleeve?

PGrant · « **Reply #48 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:11:45 pm »

Quote from: rs20 on July 17, 2015, 01:45:25 pm

Quote from: PGrant on July 17, 2015, 01:36:22 pm
Never stood on an IC, can't imagine it being worse than standing on lego though.
14 little razor blades > 6 blunt plastic bumps.

Don't underestimate the pain of standing on lego.

Or a sarcastic post. . .

Alvin · « **Reply #49 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:19:01 pm »

Hi Dave,

If you fill up the cavity with uranium, plutonium, cobalt or some other nice stuff, it will start to work through ionisation. This should allow you to salvage the $1.

Cheers,
Alvin.

apis · « **Reply #50 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:24:57 pm »

Anyone who works with ESD sensitive stuff would realise this won't work so I'm wondering who's buying these? $:-\$

Anyway, nice demonstration!

foxx_hun · « **Reply #51 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:58:49 pm »

Why did they even bother putting the 1 meg resistor in the wristband? Did someone at the chinese "factory" actually believe in this? I can not understand the philosophy that underlies in chinese "products".

(I'm new at the forum, watching Dave's videos for ages

)

PA0PBZ · « **Reply #52 on:** July 17, 2015, 07:04:14 pm »

Quote from: PGrant on July 17, 2015, 06:11:45 pm

Quote from: rs20 on July 17, 2015, 01:45:25 pm
Quote from: PGrant on July 17, 2015, 01:36:22 pm
Never stood on an IC, can't imagine it being worse than standing on lego though.
14 little razor blades > 6 blunt plastic bumps.

Don't underestimate the pain of standing on lego.

At least the lego detaches when you lift your foot, you have to remove the dip yourself -> double pleasure.

linux-works · « **Reply #53 on:** July 17, 2015, 07:05:28 pm »

I've reported these sellers to amazon so many time, but they do nothing. some idiot kept trying to argue with me and it got funnier and funnier (well, sad, really).

ah, the corona effect. yeah, that's it.

(sigh).

it does speak poorly of amazon when they allow BS like this to be sold.

ebay: that is the wild wild west and I gave up trying to care about ebay; but amazon does have real customer service folks who seem to care.

but even if I link to this thread, the amazon guys will NOT stop sales of this crap.

morale: sellers who give a cut to a business get to make the rules; the buyers are not really part of the formula. "don't cancel his account; he sells stuff and we make profit from it!"

sigh ;(

zapta · « **Reply #54 on:** July 17, 2015, 07:30:00 pm »

Quote from: Ian.M on July 17, 2015, 03:30:59 pm

Remember, there is no such thing as absolute potential, so in the absence of a dominant reference point like a planet, all you need to do is equalise charge with the other craft in a non-destructive manner.

Which brings the question, isn't sufficient to equalize to workbench level rather than to Earth's ground?

TheAmmoniacal · « **Reply #55 on:** July 17, 2015, 07:38:56 pm »

Quote from: free_electron on July 17, 2015, 04:51:28 pm

i think you are reading too much in this products advertisement.

it is exactly what it states : a cordless antitstatic wristband.

it comes without a cord. you need to provide your own ... just list the little screw, slip your cord under it and tighten the screw. the 1 meg resistor is in the case.

The eBay ads do say:

Static dissipative strap without grounding cord, convenient to operate.
Avoid the trouble of ground cord and reduce the damage of electric components accidently.

Ian.M · « **Reply #56 on:** July 17, 2015, 07:47:46 pm »

If *everything* that can come in contact with the static sensitive devices is at the same potential, then yes, you could equalize to workbench level. However workbenches totally free of mains powered tools and test equipment are extremely rare and if the board under test was touched by any grounded probe or tool the whole bench would discharge through the board. Even if the tool was isolated, if mains powered, its typical capacitance to earth or neutral is usually high enough that a large ESD discharge would occur, charging up the capacitance.

Occasionally it is expedient to work on equipment using equipotential ESD precautions. e.g. a simple wrist strap connected to an otherwise isolated PC chassis is adequate for working on it as long as you don't place or pick up any parts other than from within the chassis or conductive surfaces directly connected to it (e.g. the top of the PSU or CD drive) once you have removed them from their antistatic containers, which must be held in your hand while removing the parts.

Franz Zinn · « **Reply #57 on:** July 17, 2015, 08:13:21 pm »

Aircrafts use sharp pointed object to dissipate static discharge into the air. I would guess they do so by building an electrical field high enough to cause breakdown into air, which dissipates the charge. I wonder if it is even possible to construct such a devise for the voltages developed in a lab.

On a different note I will be grateful if anyone could suggest how one may measure static charge in a hobbyist lab with typically available equipment, without a surface voltmeter.

SeanB · « **Reply #58 on:** July 17, 2015, 08:33:02 pm »

Aircraft typically have static discharge points on the wings and trailing edges of the airframe, where you have some carbon fibre bundles and sharp stainless steel wires attached to the frame with a very good electrical connection, so that the arc discharge from lightning strikes will vapourise this point in preference to other more vital points.

Space craft simply use discharge points outside the metal frame, so as to reduce the build up of charge. Internal systems are inside a Faraday cage made from the outer shell, you simply make sure all metal parts like antennas and solar panel mounting parts have a DC connection that can handle high current flows as they get charged from either protons or electrons floating in space, and the discharge points are there to more or less equalise the charge distribution around the craft.

If you have a long tether or arm, and place a discharge point on the end, and charge it to a high negative voltage, with the main body also having equalising discharge points, you can get a thrust from the electrons emitted from the high voltage corona, which has been used for station keeping on some craft. If you want higher thrust you use Xenon gas, and charge it positively and use an ion gun to fire it out, along with an electron gun co linear to neutralise the craft charge.

rs20 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 17, 2015, 11:15:24 pm »

Quote from: AlfBaz on July 17, 2015, 04:59:21 pm

Quote from: Fungus on July 17, 2015, 04:49:57 pm
I'm not sure if such a thing is possible or not. I can imagine a battery powered device that generates opposite charge to the one at your wrist in order to cancel it out. I don't know how you'd go about making it, but I can imagine it.

(Wrist-mounted Van-Der-Graaf generator?)

Easy to test. Silk cloth, glass rod and a battery.
Rub glass rod with cloth and it should attract small pieces of paper, touch rod to negative terminal on battery glass rod should now be chargeless. My bet is it will still be charged

A van de Graff generator is a bit more complex than a battery...

EEVblog · « **Reply #60 on:** July 17, 2015, 11:49:29 pm »

Quote from: free_electron on July 17, 2015, 04:51:28 pm

i think you are reading too much in this products advertisement.
it is exactly what it states : a cordless antitstatic wristband.
it comes without a cord. you need to provide your own ... just list the little screw, slip your cord under it and tighten the screw. the 1 meg resistor is in the case.

Nope, read the ad.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Anti-Static-Wrist-Band-Strap-Discharge-Cord-Cordless-ESD-Ground-Grounding-/151363238201

Quote

This Advance type cordless wrist-band enables you to work without the restriction of a gorund lead

Quote

Put this unit on your wrist at least 5 minutes before working on your various electronic parts

Ian.M · « **Reply #61 on:** July 18, 2015, 12:23:17 am »

They might as well add a magnet to it as well so it can cure seasickness and arthritis!

There's already an extreme odour of ophidian short chain lipids, and that would open up more gullible markets.

BobC · « **Reply #62 on:** July 18, 2015, 12:35:28 am »

Quote from: Ian.M on July 18, 2015, 12:23:17 am

They might as well add a magnet to it as well so it can cure seasickness and arthritis!

There's already an extreme odour of ophidian short chain lipids, and that would open up more gullible markets.

I was just scrolling to the end to add this, and you beat me to it!

Everyone knows that static electricity on the body is caused by an imbalance in the Chi (Life Force) caused by all the artificial things in our environment.

It is equally well known that wearing magnets helps restore the Natural Chi Balance.

What's a real tragedy here is that wearing a "normal" anti-static strap drains the imbalance to ground, which makes your internal Chi balance WORSE, since it forces the imbalance to be purely internal, with no external manifestations. Who would want to lose Chi by using a normal anti-static strap?

So adding a magnet to this device will not only take care of static electricity at the cause (rather than draining your Chi away to ground), but will also provide the multitude of other curative health benefits of magnets.

So, yes, the device is defective. But adding a magnet would certainly fix it.

;^)

John Coloccia · « **Reply #63 on:** July 18, 2015, 01:08:17 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on July 17, 2015, 11:49:29 pm

Nope, read the ad.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Anti-Static-Wrist-Band-Strap-Discharge-Cord-Cordless-ESD-Ground-Grounding-/151363238201

Quote
This Advance type cordless wrist-band enables you to work without the restriction of a gorund lead

Quote
Put this unit on your wrist at least 5 minutes before working on your various electronic parts

I take it back...what a pile of crap. I'll bet money that this thing has some legitimate use, and he just had the bright idea to buy a bunch and sell them like this. Unbelievable.

But I notice only 2 have sold so far. There's yours. I wonder who the other guy is.

sleemanj · « **Reply #64 on:** July 18, 2015, 01:20:03 am »

Quote from: John Coloccia on July 18, 2015, 01:08:17 am

But I notice only 2 have sold so far. There's yours. I wonder who the other guy is.

There's about a bajillion sellers of these.

218 happy customers

ThunderSqueak · « **Reply #65 on:** July 18, 2015, 05:07:23 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on July 17, 2015, 03:18:28 am

Dave debunks cordless anti-static wristbands you can buy on ebay for $1. Do they do anything at all?
Controlled quantitative static voltage measurements with a surface DC voltmeter are done to prove they are 100% bullshit!
And a direct comparison with a proper anti-static wrist strap and bonding point is included.

This episode really brought back memories!

I worked at an IT shop about 15 years ago and we were doing PC repair, it was a very large corporation. One day my boss came in and gave everyone one of those wireless straps and said "I expect you all to wear them, it is the new company policy" I was extremely skeptical and did some testing. It took about 1 minute to prove that they were complete bullshit

Even so we would get written up if we were not wearing them, even if you were wearing a corded one instead. Gotta love corporate policies

Magic!

~ThunderSqueak

bitwelder · « **Reply #66 on:** July 18, 2015, 05:55:37 am »

I wonder if in Chinese 'cordless' has a different meaning:

(added bonus: a safety-related device by... YOLO, what more can you ask)

Quote from: SeanB

Aircraft typically have static discharge points on the wings and trailing edges of the airframe

Idea: replace antistatic wristbands with trendy emo/punk bracelets

Aaron Stein · « **Reply #67 on:** July 18, 2015, 08:45:25 am »

Not 5 minutes ago I noticed this piece of crap being used in a DEEPCOOL factory.

There's the link: https://youtu.be/VcUoHDtsD4Q?t=1m15s

amyk · « **Reply #68 on:** July 18, 2015, 01:40:03 pm »

Quote from: Aaron Stein on July 18, 2015, 08:45:25 am

Not 5 minutes ago I noticed this piece of crap being used in a DEEPCOOL factory.
There's the link: https://youtu.be/VcUoHDtsD4Q?t=1m15s

It's not as if fans are particularly ESD sensitive... but now I'm more tempted to say that this isn't just "lost in translation" but rather scammy, if the Chinese themselves are falling for it.

station240 · « **Reply #69 on:** July 18, 2015, 02:33:29 pm »

Quote from: EEVblog on July 17, 2015, 11:49:29 pm

Nope, read the ad.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Anti-Static-Wrist-Band-Strap-Discharge-Cord-Cordless-ESD-Ground-Grounding-/151363238201

Some NSFW items in that sellers negative feedback, who the hell sells cheap and nasty "personal" items ?
A fake item that does nothing is just the tip of the iceberg for at least some of these sellers.

DanielS · « **Reply #70 on:** July 18, 2015, 06:43:39 pm »

Quote from: Franz Zinn on July 17, 2015, 08:13:21 pm

Aircrafts use sharp pointed object to dissipate static discharge into the air. I would guess they do so by building an electrical field high enough to cause breakdown into air, which dissipates the charge.

The difference here is that planes have huge metallic surface area with massive airflow building up charge on the skin and no discharge path for it to leak out through grounding, so the airplane would charge to tens of kV if there weren't those sharp points providing a sharp voltage gradient to ionize air and safely dump charge back into the air stream. There still needs to be 2-3kV of voltage difference between the plane body and surrounding air for this to work though, since there is not going to be much ionization going on below that.

Wearing a strap with sharp needles poking out of it to discharge static to air would be effective at preventing you from building up more than about 3kV worth of potential, which is completely useless for working with electronics. And as Dave has shown, building up more than 2kV under typical lab conditions actually requires some effort, so you are unlikely to run into many situations where a spiky strap would be of any use.

spackard · « **Reply #71 on:** July 18, 2015, 06:49:30 pm »

Quote from: Aaron Stein on July 18, 2015, 08:45:25 am

Not 5 minutes ago I noticed this piece of crap being used in a DEEPCOOL factory.
There's the link: https://youtu.be/VcUoHDtsD4Q?t=1m15s

You have to use these things with the bluetooth-less antistatic wrist strap base station. For only $99.95.

poot36 · « **Reply #72 on:** July 18, 2015, 08:25:14 pm »

Well i think my socks are cotton and carpet is just standard stuff you would find in a house. The humidity is usually around 60% to 80% if my humidistat is correct and the temperature is around 20C. As far as I know I have not damaged any electronics using this setup (I work on the carpet). I have even run desktop and laptop motherboards on the carpet and had no problems.

lapm · « **Reply #73 on:** July 18, 2015, 08:38:11 pm »

Quote from: Aaron Stein on July 18, 2015, 08:45:25 am

Not 5 minutes ago I noticed this piece of crap being used in a DEEPCOOL factory.
There's the link: https://youtu.be/VcUoHDtsD4Q?t=1m15s

Well at least some of those workers had proper wired grounding straps..

amyk · « **Reply #74 on:** July 19, 2015, 02:20:34 am »

Quote from: station240 on July 18, 2015, 02:33:29 pm

Quote from: EEVblog on July 17, 2015, 11:49:29 pm
Nope, read the ad.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Anti-Static-Wrist-Band-Strap-Discharge-Cord-Cordless-ESD-Ground-Grounding-/151363238201

Some NSFW items in that sellers negative feedback, who the hell sells cheap and nasty "personal" items ?
A fake item that does nothing is just the tip of the iceberg for at least some of these sellers.

Huge item diversity is normally because these sellers are dropshippers that just aggregate listings from tons of others and add their own markup.

VK3DRB · « **Reply #75 on:** July 19, 2015, 03:53:29 am »

Working in bare feet seems is risky from an OH & S perspective and certainly would not look good to clients.

I buy Florsheim leather sole shoes every four or so years for under $200 per pair. Get them as seconds to save $$$. The leather sole with some natural moisture ingress provides a static dissipative path to ESD protective floors and also prevents build up of static as you would get with rubber sole runners on carpet. They look professional, feel quite comfortable, protect your toes and you can get them re-soled by a cobbler if need be.

And being a "cost incurred in earning your income" for electronic engineers, they are TAX DEDUCTIBLE in Australia at least

.

I have worn Florsheims for the last 30 years, avoiding (and refusing) to use those bloody annoying and often useless ESD foot straps and those horrible purpose built ESD conductive shoes. I always tested a PASS on the ESD tester at IBM.

SL4P · « **Reply #76 on:** July 19, 2015, 08:09:15 am »

OK nay-sayers...
The cordless strap as shown WILL WORK... underwater.
Or in best case near-100% humidity.

So there. It's just weasel words. The item does exactly as described, just not the way you expected.
Who are we to set your level of expectation!?

As apple would say - "You're holding it wrong"

Zucca · « **Reply #77 on:** July 19, 2015, 10:34:49 am »

Can anyone point me where to buy the little yellow "antistatic" panel under's Dave bench?

Can´t find it. I am located in Germany.

Or should I simply build one?

Thanks!

Fungus · « **Reply #78 on:** July 19, 2015, 10:51:15 am »

Quote from: zucca on July 19, 2015, 10:34:49 am

Can anyone point me where to buy the little yellow "antistatic" panel under's Dave bench?

Can´t find it. I am located in Germany.

Or should I simply build one?

Search for "esd block" on ebay or something like that.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=esd+block

Zucca · « **Reply #79 on:** July 19, 2015, 12:48:13 pm »

Thanks Fungus, I got a cheap chinese crap. Now in one month it will be here.

Photonik · « **Reply #80 on:** July 19, 2015, 02:40:43 pm »

What does this tell us http://www.amazon.co.uk/A-szcxtop-TM-Wireless-Static-Discharge/dp/B00M8TJGT2 ?

a) a lot of people have a very subtle sense of humor

b) all reviews were created by the guy, who sells this stuff
c) it's time to start work on the "nuclear power blocker", a novel device that simply plugs in between any electrical socket and an electrical appliance and that will only allow electrons from renewable energy sources to pass, while blocking electrons generated by nuclear means - at $100 it will be rated at 16A.

amyk · « **Reply #81 on:** July 19, 2015, 02:53:41 pm »

The reviews for that one seem to be mixed with those for this product, which appears to be a regular corded type.

drws · « **Reply #82 on:** July 19, 2015, 03:25:26 pm »

Quote from: amyk on July 19, 2015, 02:53:41 pm

The reviews for that one seem to be mixed with those for this product, which appears to be a regular corded type.

I could only see 1 review in all 17 pages that wasn't for the mercury anti static wriststrap. How can I get in on this game? I could make some bullshit free energy product and get all the reviews for another legit product tied to it.

Photonik · « **Reply #83 on:** July 19, 2015, 03:52:48 pm »

I see us converging to a fourth option:
d) attach ourselves with a bogus product to a legitimate product and ride the tidal wave of positive reviews

We just need to ensure that the promise is less concrete and the price is way higher.

This guy, for example, missed the concept of attaching himself to a legitimate product, but he understood the concept of the price http://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnet-Titanium-Lunavit%C2%AE-Magnetic-Beverage-Energizer-Titanium-Neodymium/dp/B00M56C1QS

That's what I like about the EEVblog - good ideas get picked up and turned into great ones. Thanks!

zapta · « **Reply #84 on:** July 19, 2015, 05:16:59 pm »

Here a cordless piece of plastic that helped we with ESD. No more sparks when touching the faucet or a window frame.

https://www.cleanroomworld.com/detail/esd-shoes-7121.cfm

Vgkid · « **Reply #85 on:** July 19, 2015, 10:54:56 pm »

What is the rackmount 1u piece of gear on the bench?

compet17 · « **Reply #86 on:** July 20, 2015, 08:16:41 pm »

an wireless antistatic wrist strap could theoretically work...

On airplanes you frequently find several small antennas at the edge of the wings. These antennas are made from carbon fibres which are tattered at the ends, creating tiny sharp spikes that tremble in the airflow. (like a brush)
The purpose of these"static wicks" is to dissipate static electricity that accumulates on the airplane during flight. This charges can influence radio and navigation transmitters.

That means IT IS POSSIBLE to dissipate electric charges without a wire. But possibly you will need an airflow of 500 MPH to make it work.

nixxon · « **Reply #87 on:** July 20, 2015, 09:52:03 pm »

Maybe the device is capable of preventing infection by inhibiting the growth of infectious agents? Like a Cordless Anti-Septic Wristband?

HeywoodFloyd · « **Reply #88 on:** July 21, 2015, 08:52:24 am »

It reminds me of this guy who got prosecuted for selling fake bomb detectors: they were basically golf ball finders and were apparently used in Iraq. And the user had to stamp their feet to make it work.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22380368

Smokey · « **Reply #89 on:** July 22, 2015, 01:24:40 am »

Quote from: station240 on July 18, 2015, 02:33:29 pm

Quote from: EEVblog on July 17, 2015, 11:49:29 pm
Nope, read the ad.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Anti-Static-Wrist-Band-Strap-Discharge-Cord-Cordless-ESD-Ground-Grounding-/151363238201

Some NSFW items in that sellers negative feedback, who the hell sells cheap and nasty "personal" items ?
A fake item that does nothing is just the tip of the iceberg for at least some of these sellers.

HA! Awesome. You found a comedy gold mine!
Some of best negative feedback ever!

"I got my vibrators and they didn't even work. Seller does not reply. Very mad ! "
"Too strong vibrations, not nice to use."
"BROKE IMMEDIATELY- NOT AS PICTURED- NOT WORTH $10AUD - DO NOT BUY FROM HERE!!!!! Item = Funny Anal Anus Butt Plug Bolt Massage Toy Fake Dog/Fox Tail DA (#151303411254)"

Sounds like you could tell him where to stick his scammy anti-static wrist straps, but there might not be room!

McBryce · « **Reply #90 on:** July 22, 2015, 10:35:59 am »

Quote from: Smokey on July 22, 2015, 01:24:40 am

"BROKE IMMEDIATELY- NOT AS PICTURED- NOT WORTH $10AUD - DO NOT BUY FROM HERE!!!!! Item = Funny Anal Anus Butt Plug Bolt Massage Toy Fake Dog/Fox Tail DA (#151303411254)"

But it probably discharges static build up better than the wristband!

Bryce.

EEVblog · « **Reply #91 on:** July 22, 2015, 10:50:35 am »

Reports keep flooding in of factories using these wristbands

Including one who manufactured a recent teardown item!

Smokey · « **Reply #92 on:** July 22, 2015, 05:25:02 pm »

I guess that's why our ISO9001 guy said in addition to anti-static bands to be compliant you also have to have a static tester that you need to use every day to confirm it's working. It kind of looked like a "test your strength" hand gripper thing.

joeskaife · « **Reply #93 on:** July 24, 2015, 03:53:28 pm »

I've just come across this note from Maplin "Technical Support" on their website in response to a comment on their mains earth-bonding plug:

"Russell · Technical Support · 4 months ago
Our Technical Support Team have tested this item and found that the Earth pin does contain metal although very trace amounts and connects to the Earth socket in a standard 3 pin mains plug, upon testing this is not actually needed as a 1 Million Ohm resistor would dissipate any static passed through it so it should never actually need to get to the Earth pin."

Presumably they would be quite happy with the cordless version!!

Syko_ · « **Reply #94 on:** July 31, 2015, 08:45:57 am »

Hey! It finally arrived. I thought you might get a laugh when you opened the box to find this $1 piece of junk. Glad it got to you though.

EEVblog · « **Reply #95 on:** July 31, 2015, 09:06:01 am »

Quote from: Syko_ on July 31, 2015, 08:45:57 am

Hey! It finally arrived. I thought you might get a laugh when you opened the box to find this $1 piece of junk. Glad it got to you though.

It was a hoot, thanks!

Syko_ · « **Reply #96 on:** July 31, 2015, 09:38:38 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on July 31, 2015, 09:06:01 am

Quote from: Syko_ on July 31, 2015, 08:45:57 am
Hey!...snip...

It was a hoot, thanks!

No worries.

Great informative video, by the way. Hopefully it saves some electronics beginner from making a bad mistake.

EEVblog · « **Reply #97 on:** August 23, 2015, 11:46:11 pm »

Another factory using these bogus wristbands:
https://youtu.be/UErQ9BJzk0k?t=8m37s

Hugoneus · « **Reply #98 on:** August 24, 2015, 04:08:58 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on August 23, 2015, 11:46:11 pm

Another factory using these bogus wristbands:
https://youtu.be/UErQ9BJzk0k?t=8m37s

Remarkable.

You have to admit though, they are much more comfortable. O0

Godzil · « **Reply #99 on:** August 24, 2015, 11:23:51 am »

I wonder, it you make the screw touching ground all the time, does it still count as a wireless wristband?

EEVblog · « **Reply #100 on:** August 24, 2015, 11:49:09 am »

Quote from: Hugoneus on August 24, 2015, 04:08:58 am

You have to admit though, they are much more comfortable. O0

Indeed. Productivity should be high!

senso · « **Reply #101 on:** August 24, 2015, 11:50:04 am »

With gigantic anti-static mats that they are always touching is it really necessary for tethered anti-static bracelets?
This is a legit question and not trolling.

EEVblog · « **Reply #102 on:** August 24, 2015, 12:16:48 pm »

Quote from: senso on August 24, 2015, 11:50:04 am

With gigantic anti-static mats that they are always touching is it really necessary for tethered anti-static bracelets?
This is a legit question and not trolling.

If the setup if done right, then no, you don't need wrist straps.
Ankle straps are quite common for this very reason of the inconvenience of wrist straps.
Proper production facilities have conductive floor with static dissipate tops. Couple that with proper lab coats and clothing, chairs and other stuff and you often don't need a wrist strap.

Silveruser · « **Reply #103 on:** August 24, 2015, 06:33:13 pm »

I ordered a couple new straps from Amazon, got a smile when the package arrived.

chicken · « **Reply #104 on:** June 29, 2016, 02:28:40 am »

The cordless anti-static wristband makes a guest appearance in this documentary about Shenzhen: (2:36 and 2:45 mark)
https://youtu.be/8JIvEE9sDdQ

Looks like they are in "professional" use in factories over there.

Godzil · « **Reply #105 on:** June 29, 2016, 12:10:26 pm »

It's because in China physic does not work the same as here, the cordless are working there.

McBryce · « **Reply #106 on:** June 29, 2016, 12:42:32 pm »

Perhaps the smog is conductive?

McBryce.

gustavogmb · « **Reply #107 on:** March 12, 2018, 06:49:23 pm »

Hi everybody, I'm new in this forum.... I have a question... why in these videos they connects the cord to the mat???

and then one of them connect to ground but Dave does not do that? Is that necessary?

cheers

EDIT:

I highly recommend you watch this video, it is very interesting

drussell · « **Reply #108 on:** March 12, 2018, 09:40:00 pm »

Ummm... To actually do anything, your wrist strap or other ESD measures must be grounded.

For safety, if it is connected to a human, you want at least a 1 meg resistor or something to keep you from being quite as likely to fry yourself if you don't know what you're doing.

(Though, actually sometimes I think more people who ~~don't know~~ have no idea what they're doing should probably be darwin-awarded out of existence if they think they know what they're doing, but demonstrably do not, and zap themselves to death... but I digress...)

McBryce · « **Reply #109 on:** March 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am »

Quote from: gustavogmb on March 12, 2018, 06:49:23 pm

Hi everybody, I'm new in this forum.... I have a question... why in these videos they connects the cord to the mat???

and then one of them connect to ground but Dave does not do that? Is that necessary?

cheers

@gustavogmb: To avoid electrostatic discharges (which can damage electronic components) you want everything to be at the same potential, including yourself. So by connecting everything together, you are ensuring that no static discharges can occur. It's important that earth is used because instrumentation such as your oscilloscope is also earthed, so this is the reference point you need to use.

@drussel: I haven't ever heard of someone zapping themselves to death with static electricity, at least not while doing electronics. Unless of course they were hit by lightning while soldering, which wouldn't be dumb, just extremely unlucky

McBryce.

Brumby · « **Reply #110 on:** March 13, 2018, 09:44:36 am »

Quote from: McBryce on March 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

@drussel: I haven't ever heard of someone zapping themselves to death with static electricity, at least not while doing electronics.

Where was the risk limited to static electricity? (That is a rather dangerous discussion shortcut, IMO.)

Anyone here with some idea of the 1M resistor knows it is NOT there to protect the wearer from static, but to limit the current should a high risk source - such as mains - gets involved.

2N3055 · « **Reply #111 on:** March 13, 2018, 09:56:19 am »

Resistance is there also to prevent sparking that result in extremely fast and high current events.. It is designed to gently dissipate (bleed) static charge and prevent buildup... limiting high currents in mains contact scenario is nice bonus.... win-win

McBryce · « **Reply #112 on:** March 13, 2018, 10:58:06 am »

Quote from: Brumby on March 13, 2018, 09:44:36 am

Quote from: McBryce on March 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am
@drussel: I haven't ever heard of someone zapping themselves to death with static electricity, at least not while doing electronics.

Where was the risk limited to static electricity? (That is a rather dangerous discussion shortcut, IMO.)

Anyone here with some idea of the 1M resistor knows it is NOT there to protect the wearer from static, but to limit the current should a high risk source - such as mains - gets involved.

The aim of the whole ESD mat / wrist strap setup is to protect against static electricity, not mains current. It may do this as a bonus, but it was definitely not the design intent.

McBryce.

Brumby · « **Reply #113 on:** March 13, 2018, 01:11:06 pm »

Irrespective as to whether it was part of the design spec or not - the safety offered by the 1M resistor in a mains exposure scenario is still valid.

That is the point I was making - and, I believe, the one drussell was making. Nothing to do with design intent (whether that was part of it or not). A "bonus" if you must, but it is still valid.

IanMacdonald · « **Reply #114 on:** March 18, 2018, 01:29:49 pm »

I suppose if you're a punk rocker you could have a wireless wristband with sharp spikes, that would tend to get rid of static by corona discharge. Might result in a few personal injuries though.

I just tend to 'touch down' before handling any sensitive components though. Reckon it's just as effective. The other point to remember is that the static might be on the component rather than on you, so It's important to touch the bag down before taking it out.


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