Author Topic: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review  (Read 13172 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« on: September 11, 2015, 09:27:26 pm »
Dave unboxes and takes a first look at the 500MHz Teledyne Lecroy Wavejet Touch 543 / Iwatsu 5600 series oscilloscope.
And various comparisons with the Keysight 3000X, Tektronix MDO3000, GW Instek, and Rigol 4000

 

Offline kbhasi

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2015, 12:27:16 am »
What's with this Dave imposter posting dog things?

Anyways, one thing that I learned is that Dave doesn't seem to like all-black test equipment, while I do. I understand that they're trying to be different though by customising an existing model to be all black. I wonder if Dave's next phone is going to have a black front and white back though...
 

Offline Simon

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2015, 01:55:54 am »
^^

 :wtf:

Batteriser now buying dicks in batches?!

Nope it's mojo chang
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Offline dentaku

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2015, 03:58:48 am »
The whole front panel looks like a really cheap black sticker that's actually kind of grey.
I wonder what's under it?
 

Offline Lukas

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2015, 04:23:07 am »
I'm wondering what's the point in storing 2048 acquisitions if the only way to view them is to scroll through all of them? Who's going to do that?
Does the touchscreen support dragging waveforms around (vertical/horizontal offset)? If no, what's the point of having a touchscreen instead of softkeys?
 

Online jancumps

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2015, 04:53:51 am »
One advantage of touch screen is that they could make the scope smaller.
I see good use for a touch screen on a scope, both for the menus and for scrolling and zooming in traces.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2015, 06:20:04 am »
$5k? Really? I am not impressed.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2015, 07:33:10 am »
$5k? Really? I am not impressed.
If you need 4 channels at 500MHz then it's very cheap (compared to the others...)

 

Offline tautech

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2015, 07:40:39 am »
Thanks Dave, yes incredible boot speed.  :o
It does look a little unfinished doesn't it, but as you say price is good for a big brand.
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2015, 07:56:47 am »
$5k? Really? I am not impressed.
Neither am I... This review gave me the feeling the touchscreen is a gimmick, the oscilloscope has an under-powered processor and it does not shine on features. However, given I do not have one on my hands, I can only speculate...   :=\
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Online Fungus

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2015, 07:59:31 am »
This review gave me the feeling the touchscreen is a gimmick

It's better than having menu buttons down the side.

 

Offline lincoln

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2015, 08:00:27 am »
I don't know, I like the black. Better than bromine brown.

It seems like they kept the annoying "features" of the LeCroy scopes, Trigger level indicator, (or lack there of) and wired menuing but ditched the statistics and mesurment functions. 

So if you had 4~6k to spend on a 4 channel scope what would you pick?
 

Offline Someone

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2015, 09:58:19 am »
Great balanced review as always. Its a shame they didnt send through the logic/mixed signal parts to play with too so you could show them off, if it does serial decoding from the analog channels in the PC that would be rather nice especially since they support other brands of scope with the logic studio package!
 

Offline GlowingGhoul

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2015, 01:40:54 pm »
You'll be reminded this is the cheapest unit on the market every single moment you're using it.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2015, 04:40:19 pm »
So if you had 4~6k to spend on a 4 channel scope what would you pick?

LeCroy WaveSurfer 3000:



I'd say its a better and more balanced scope than the Keysight DSOX3k(T) and Tek MSO3000 (it's main competitors) unless you really need one of the options that are only available for the DSOX3k(T) or you need a built-in spectrum analyzer with shoddy specs. Plus the WaveSurfer is still cheaper than Keysight's and Tek's offerings, even more so for the higher bandwidth models.

A real shame that Dave couldn't get one of these to review instead of the WaveJet, which essentially is an almost 10 year old design.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 05:02:01 pm by Wuerstchenhund »
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2015, 04:52:19 pm »
It seems like they kept the annoying "features" of the LeCroy scopes, Trigger level indicator, (or lack there of) and wired menuing but ditched the statistics and mesurment functions. 

Not sure what you're talking about, as LeCroy scopes have had trigger level indicators since the beginning of dawn. Plus this scope is not a LeCroy design, its an Iwatsu rebadge (i.e. it's designed and manufactured by Iwatsu), and its menu structure has very little in common with LeCroy designed scopes.
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Offline Karel

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2015, 05:14:27 pm »
Plus this scope is not a LeCroy design, its an Iwatsu rebadge (i.e. it's designed and manufactured by Iwatsu), and its menu structure has very little in common with LeCroy designed scopes.

Once LeCroy put their name on it, it's their design. At least they are backing it. If you don't agree with how a product is designed,
then don't put your name on it. So, if this product is below expectations, there's only LeCroy to blame.


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Offline ckm

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2015, 05:51:26 pm »
So if you had 4~6k to spend on a 4 channel scope what would you pick?

LeCroy currently has a refurbished WaveRunner w/warranty on eBay for $6k - 1Ghz, 20GS/s, very large screen that works in both portrait and landscape mode.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teledyne-LeCroy-WaveRunner-610Zi-1GHz-Oscilloscope-64Mpt-and-20GS-Upgrade-/321858987844?hash=item4af04a6744

That would be my pick.  No affiliation, but I've owned a couple of LeCroys - they are typically hugely undervalued in the second hand market and the genuine LeCroy built/designed ones are very, very fast - way faster than any similar vintage Tek or Agilent/HP/thescopecompanywithnoname.   A little different to drive than more mainstream scopes, but I like them.  I think this particular version is built on a Windows platform (so are some of the Agilents) so don't expect a super fast boot time.


« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 05:56:00 pm by ckm »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2015, 06:40:34 pm »
A real shame that Dave couldn't get one of these to review instead of the WaveJet, which essentially is an almost 10 year old design.

They just sent it too me out of the blue. I didn't even know what scope it was until I got it.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2015, 06:42:08 pm »
So if you had 4~6k to spend on a 4 channel scope what would you pick?
LeCroy currently has a refurbished WaveRunner w/warranty on eBay for $6k - 1Ghz, 20GS/s, very large screen that works in both portrait and landscape mode.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teledyne-LeCroy-WaveRunner-610Zi-1GHz-Oscilloscope-64Mpt-and-20GS-Upgrade-/321858987844?hash=item4af04a6744

Yep, if I was spending $6K of my own money I'd go for a factory refurbished scope. All the major manufacturers are selling them now at good prices.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2015, 08:55:11 pm »
This review gave me the feeling the touchscreen is a gimmick

It's better than having menu buttons down the side.
Uhm... Not in my opinion, given the lost screen real state to accomodate the "fingersize-appropriate" button icons, the lack of multi-touch for zoom/selection and the lack of a rolling menu (such as any of the modern smartphones) to remove the "next page" button once and for all.

A real shame that Dave couldn't get one of these to review instead of the WaveJet, which essentially is an almost 10 year old design.
I wonder if LeCroy is afraid of Dave's thumb seal of approval/disapproval... ;) But the fact this is a 10 year old design helps put the scope into perspective...
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2015, 11:09:23 pm »

Touchscreens are great for small portable devices that have no room for buttons, and OK for certain other applications.

But why would I want to smear the big, beautiful screen of a new $6000+ oscilloscope that really is not required to be "as small as possible", instead of using proper tactile buttons?   

Maybe it's just me that dislikes smeared screens...
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2015, 11:14:53 pm »
This review gave me the feeling the touchscreen is a gimmick

It's better than having menu buttons down the side.
Uhm... Not in my opinion, given the lost screen real state to accomodate the "fingersize-appropriate" button icons, the lack of multi-touch for zoom/selection and the lack of a rolling menu (such as any of the modern smartphones) to remove the "next page" button once and for all.
The problem isn't the touch screen then, the problem is that when the menu's hidden the waveform display doesn't fill up the empty space.

FWIW: It might have made more sense to not hide the menu. At least then the problem wouldn't be so glaringly obvious.
 

Online HighVoltage

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2015, 12:08:05 am »
I had the predecessor, the Wavejet 354 (without Touch) and the screen layout really has not changed much at all. It seems this scope is the same as before, just with added touch.
The lagging of button response when the FFT was on was also present in my 354.
Interestingly, the one I had, came with a light and pleasant outside color.

But, the main reason why I do not have this scope anymore was the unbearable noise from the fan.
Since Dave did not mentioned this in his review -or I missed it - may be this is a true improvement to the older version.
 
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: EEVBlog #792 - Lecroy Wavejet Touch 354 Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2015, 02:33:07 am »
Touchscreens are great for small portable devices that have no room for buttons, and OK for certain other applications.

But why would I want to smear the big, beautiful screen of a new $6000+ oscilloscope that really is not required to be "as small as possible", instead of using proper tactile buttons?

Almost all high-end scopes these days come with touch screen, and that is for a reason, which is that touch allows users to work with the many and often very complex functions on these scopes without requiring a mouse/keyboard connected (which usually would be a pain on the bench) or a front panel with 600+ buttons. When combined with a good UI which has been designed for touch control like MAUI touch allows for easy manipulation of relevant parameters without having to wade through endless menu layers.

Of course, on the other side when combined with a simple button UI like the one on the WaveJet 300T then touch operation becomes mostly a gimmick.

Quote
Maybe it's just me that dislikes smeared screens...

Or maybe not all touch screens are glossy mirrors on which fingerprints stick like on the gluey side of transparent tape? Most touch screens on industrial and T&M gear are matte, and unless you're using them while eating a greasy McWhopper or immediately after doing an oil change on your car there won't be many fingerprints left on the screen. It's mostly only consumer electronics that comes with glossy touch screens, apparently because consumers believe the shinier the better.
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