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EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: EEVblog on September 22, 2015, 10:34:20 pm

Title: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: EEVblog on September 22, 2015, 10:34:20 pm
How to remove those pesky Warranty Void If Removed security stickers, without voiding your warranty.
Two Minute Tech Tip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1&v=colVXihqdGo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colVXihqdGo)
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Fungus on September 22, 2015, 11:21:45 pm
How to remove those pesky Warranty Void If Removed security stickers, without voiding your warranty.
Two Minute Tech Tip

www.metube.com/watch?v=colVXihqdG (http://www.metube.com/watch?v=colVXihqdG)

Bad link (missing an 'o'), try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colVXihqdGo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=colVXihqdGo)
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: ElektronikLabor on September 22, 2015, 11:28:09 pm
I used the same method to remove the Sticker from my Rigol PSU. But I removed the whole sticker and put it away if I need it later.
To remove the sticker I used this special coated paper where new stickers are initially sticked on. Does this papes has a name?  :-//
This special coating doesn't wearout the adhesive. :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: zapta on September 22, 2015, 11:50:40 pm
Very useful trick. Mike has a similar video.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Hydrawerk on September 22, 2015, 11:54:14 pm
There was no such security sticker on my Agilent DSOX2002A back in 2013. BTW there are more videos on this topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGcNS5g9ygg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGcNS5g9ygg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J1pVlqMIHM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J1pVlqMIHM)
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Monittosan on September 23, 2015, 12:00:07 am
I used the same method to remove the Sticker from my Rigol PSU. But I removed the whole sticker and put it away if I need it later.
To remove the sticker I used this special coated paper where new stickers are initially sticked on. Does this papes has a name?  :-//
This special coating doesn't wearout the adhesive. :)

wax paper  :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Fungus on September 23, 2015, 12:10:40 am
Haven't done it myself yet but I thought people warmed them up with hairdryers and they just peel right off.

Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Stray Electron on September 23, 2015, 12:19:56 am

 Does this papes has a name?  :-//


wax paper  :-+

   I've heard it called "release paper". I get the sheets of free children's stickers and throw away the stickers and reuse the release paper. 

    Wax paper doesn't work very well for me any more, they don't put enough way on it and things still stick.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: edy on September 23, 2015, 01:15:15 am
Next they will introduce something inside the case that gets physically broken when you open it up, a light-sensing material that is normally sandwiched between parts of the case that would never otherwise see the light of day, or some electrical contact that trips a sensor powered by the backup battery (or all of the above... I'm sure there are more methods). All of these could be installed in the factory under conditions that you normally wouldn't be able to replicate to put things back together the way they were originally.

So the question is, what is the purpose of even using these stickers? Warranty is time-dependent. After that, you are on your own. The hell with the sticker, just cut it off and do whatever you want with your own equipment. Can someone explain to me what the point is?

Cool video though... I'm sure it will come in handy, but please someone explain why we need to put it back? And what do manufacturers really do when there is a problem, will they screw over their customer base because a sticker is ripped because the user had a go inside the thing? And why would they mess around inside in the first-place if it was still under warranty?

Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: wraper on September 23, 2015, 01:45:52 am
I store my stickers separately from the equipment  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: wraper on September 23, 2015, 01:48:28 am
Haven't done it myself yet but I thought people warmed them up with hairdryers and they just peel right off.
It helps for releasing, but then a lot of glue remains on the case and then sticker might not hold well when applying it again.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Godzil on September 23, 2015, 01:51:46 am
They should put a "Warranty void is not broken" sticker instead ;)
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: mikerj on September 23, 2015, 02:19:39 am
So the question is, what is the purpose of even using these stickers? Warranty is time-dependent. After that, you are on your own. The hell with the sticker, just cut it off and do whatever you want with your own equipment. Can someone explain to me what the point is?

The point of it is to prevent companies spending money on warranty repairs where the fault has been caused by clumsy idiots blundering around inside the device.  If the device has been opened within the warranty period, then you have voided the terms of the warranty so the manufacturer can refuse to repair it (for free).
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: codeboy2k on September 23, 2015, 02:42:08 am
I've always believed that these stickers cannot be enforced.  Most countries now have laws that enable a guaranteed time limited warranty against manufacturing defects, and this is not something that a manufacturer can simply void away by making the sticker a condition of the warranty.

Most warranties are written to limit your rights, but cannot void your rights completely.   The sticker might be legal only as a condition of a Full Warranty, sometimes also known as a Voluntary Warranty (i.e. the written warranty that might provide additional warranty protection above what your state or country already provides for in the statutes).

I think this was challenged once with ASUS in America, and maybe there are other examples in case law.

* In the USA, there is the States' Lemon Laws, and the Federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act) that mandate implied warranties that cannot be taken away. 

* I thought Australia has the ACCC  that covers this?

* Canada has the Canadian Competition Act that prevents something called "tied-selling" that ties you to approved service only, or approved parts, or approved anything.. i.e. breaking the sticker to make a repair or service it with something or at some shop that they didn't approve of is perfectly legal in Canada and cannot void your warranty.

Furthermore, even the statutes sometimes have a clause that says a manufacturer is perfectly within it's rights to void your warranty if they can prove that you DID NOT PROPERLY MAINTAIN IT. How can you maintain it if you cannot open it up to clean it?  For example, if you use the device in a dusty environment, you'll want to open it up to clean it and prevent failure. If it fails because you couldn't clean it, you might try to get a replacement under the warranty, and they might be able to legally deny you.  However, in order to maintain the device, i.e. clean the dust out, you have to break the sticker, and then the manufacturer says they will deny you because you broke the sticker. That's clearly a catch-22 situation that you cannot avoid.

PS: IANAL

Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: LinkZ on September 23, 2015, 03:06:34 am
Useless as always, Dave.  :--  ::)
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: PA4TIM on September 23, 2015, 03:18:26 am
Hmm, doing all this trouble while recording it for youtube, something tells me that is not the best way :-)
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: f4eru on September 23, 2015, 03:50:41 am
hmm, why is this video not on the blog website ?
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: timofonic on September 23, 2015, 03:58:04 am
Hmm, doing all this trouble while recording it for youtube, something tells me that is not the best way :-)

Why?

Do you think he would worry about it as a regular user?

He's a controversial but yet recognized public figure. If shown products and sponsors are okay and get promoted by this website, all goes okay.

This isn't your typical electronics website. Dave is a geek, but surely a very unconventional one.

Some people might not like his style, but I find him very funny and didactic. I just wish he really gets more resources, associate with other videobloggers and makes more cool OSHW that makes things in a cheaper and great way.

And while others might think putting Sagan is sentimental manipulation, I find it cute and very interesting how is geeks could show them our stuff to any little people or even our own ones. I find amusing to see how these small "demons" react intuitively to technology, maybe we have something to learn from them :D
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: PA4TIM on September 23, 2015, 04:09:24 am
Hold your horses, I was not serious. I just thought it was funny to remove the sticker very careful so no-one can see you opened it while half the electronics community and the dealer is watching it. I know it was just a tip for his viewers and not a serious action to hide his own action.

I have seen most of his video's so I know his style.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Fungus on September 23, 2015, 05:27:17 am
I've always believed that these stickers cannot be enforced.  Most countries now have laws that enable a guaranteed time limited warranty against manufacturing defects, and this is not something that a manufacturer can simply void away by making the sticker a condition of the warranty.
The warranty is only to cover defects in manufacturing.

If the sticker is broken then manufacturers can claim it's because of something the user did. Oscilloscopes are delicate, people are perfectly capable of poking around inside them with screwdrivers while it was powered on. The manufacturers shouldn't have to pay for that by giving them a free repair/replacement.

Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Macbeth on September 23, 2015, 05:55:21 am
The warranty stickers are utter nonsense. I'm sorry but equipment gets bashed about, moved, scraped, etc. If the sticker gets torn during the move from one desk to another, or scratched with a test probe or something the warranty is void? really?

It's just theatrics. The law (at least in the UK) won't let them off with that nonsense. In fact if a piece of equipment is less than 6 months old then no matter what is wrong with it the default is any problem is considered a manufacturing fault - even if the problem is the idiot using the equipment, it is for the manufacturer to prove it was the user who broke it and a poxy little sticker is not adequate proof.

That then gets on to the usual 12 months warranty. Again that is actually not the law. A piece of equipment should last as long as should be expected for what it is - determined by the courts. This will often mean much longer than 12 months. I would say all test equipment is expected to last longer, however the onus is then on the user to prove the failure was caused by a manufacturing defect rather than himself or fair wear and tear.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: eV1Te on September 23, 2015, 06:32:07 am
I usually remove the sticker completely, even any remaining adhesive residues. If anyone would ask about a "warranty void" sticker I would just say it did not have any when I bought it. Would be hard for them to prove that I removed it. But that has never happened I do not think anyone cares about the stickers.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: zapta on September 23, 2015, 08:50:33 am
I've always believed that these stickers cannot be enforced.  Most countries now have laws that enable a guaranteed time limited warranty against manufacturing defects, and this is not something that a manufacturer can simply void away by making the sticker a condition of the warranty.

So these laws also apply to non consumer products such as oscilloscopes?
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Someone on September 23, 2015, 12:01:25 pm
* I thought Australia has the ACCC  that covers this?
As with most things, its complicated. For instance:

I've always believed that these stickers cannot be enforced.  Most countries now have laws that enable a guaranteed time limited warranty against manufacturing defects, and this is not something that a manufacturer can simply void away by making the sticker a condition of the warranty.
So these laws also apply to non consumer products such as oscilloscopes?
That would depend on how it was purchased, if an Australian in Australia bought it from an Australian shop with their personal name on the invoice/receipt then it was a consumer purchase and treated as such. As the owner of the product you would be entitled to dismantle the product and it would likely be on the onus of the manufacturer (or party representing them) to prove how damage had been caused by the user ignoring the instructions for use which usually include "do not open [product] no user serviceable parts inside". I have successfully received refunds for and replacements of products that were deficient where the problems/faults were only able to be found by disassembling the product.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: EEVblog on September 23, 2015, 12:41:46 pm
Useless as always, Dave.  :--  ::)

Why are you still subscribed then?
Why watch videos you think are always useless?
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: coppice on September 23, 2015, 01:01:59 pm
If the warranty void sticker gets broken in the first year, can't you get it replaced under warranty?
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: AF6LJ on September 23, 2015, 01:06:10 pm
I always wondered if that would work.
Thanks Dave :)
 :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: vk6zgo on September 23, 2015, 01:44:24 pm
Purchasing power has a great impact upon warranties.

When I worked for Telecom Australia & later, the 7 Network,we quite often opened new equipment up,either to  make necessary modifications,just to "have a look",or in many cases,as part of the process of installation.

An upside for the suppliers was that they knew if it was a "silly" fault we would probably  just fix it ourselves,so if they did get anything back,it was almost certainly an intransigent fault,which they in turn,could "duckshove" back to the Manufacturers.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: DimitriP on September 23, 2015, 02:26:17 pm
In some cases (pun intended :) ) the screws have some sort of adhesive that makes them kind hard to break loose the first time. Usually there is distinctive break-off feel as you are breaking it loose. Once reassembled that break-off feel is no longer there.

The tip may have some of that residue. Clear, green, blue ,black etc.
Use something of similar color if you want to claim "never opened"  after reassembly.


Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Armxnian on September 23, 2015, 02:43:09 pm
The funny thing is, for Siglent's meters and signal generators, you don't even need to remove the warranty sticker. Just take off the two side screws in the back and the one screw on the bottom of the chassis and just pull it out.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: helius on September 23, 2015, 02:48:30 pm
Nice tip, thanks Dave!
About "release papers": they are coated with silicone so nothing can stick to them (particularly ink or glue). One major use is for dry mounting machines, and they can be purchased from dry mounting vendors (like Seal, now part of D&K Group). But the sheets are usually much larger and less nimble than ESD bags!
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Fungus on September 23, 2015, 02:48:52 pm
In some cases (pun intended :) ) the screws have some sort of adhesive that makes them kind hard to break loose the first time. Usually there is distinctive break-off feel as you are breaking it loose. Once reassembled that break-off feel is no longer there.
Cyanoacrilate...
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Towger on September 23, 2015, 03:25:17 pm
Quote from: zapta
So these laws also apply to non consumer products such as oscilloscopes?

Or course. At least 1 year manufacturer's warranty. The sticker means nothing.  Actually if you are a consumer the item must last 'a reasonable length of time'. For an expensive item the courts can deem that to be 5 years.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: pickle9000 on September 23, 2015, 04:00:44 pm
Even though there are protections in place (for some) when removing an anti-tamper sticker, why not save yourself and the seller some grief. Keeping it in one piece allows them to run it though the warranty process without any issues.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Bud on September 23, 2015, 05:05:01 pm
Why bother, you can buy a sheet for a few buck on ebay, search for "security stickers", also available from bunch of other places.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: timelessbeing on September 23, 2015, 06:21:45 pm
alternative to the anti-static bag ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMPPuAOoD8c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMPPuAOoD8c)
(0:00 - 1:00)
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Psi on September 23, 2015, 06:25:13 pm
AvE posted a response video, with his technique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOZKj8ZGqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOZKj8ZGqo)
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: HighVoltage on September 23, 2015, 06:54:11 pm
I usually keep these stickers off and only add them later, if needed.
Just in case I have to get in to the instrument again.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Fungus on September 23, 2015, 08:02:14 pm
Why bother, you can buy a sheet for a few buck on ebay, search for "security stickers", also available from bunch of other places.
I won't say "Agilent" on them though.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Macbeth on September 23, 2015, 08:09:24 pm
AvE posted a response video, with his technique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOZKj8ZGqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOZKj8ZGqo)

"OWNERSTICK"  :-DD That guy is hilarious. Subscribed!
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: station240 on September 23, 2015, 08:14:34 pm
I know had some test equipment teardowns where he explained how even finger prints can put precision resistors etc out of value.
Perhaps more accurate would be "calibration void if sticker removed".

The funny thing is, for Siglent's meters and signal generators, you don't even need to remove the warranty sticker. Just take off the two side screws in the back and the one screw on the bottom of the chassis and just pull it out.

Yeah I've seen a part that has clips down one side, and the warranty sticker down the other. So you can open the plastic case up like a clam, mess with it and put it back together without removing the sticker.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: German_EE on September 23, 2015, 08:17:46 pm
For the high value items I'm normally very good when it comes to warranty stickers and I leave the case shut until it expires. The day after that warranty expiry? I'm in there looking for all of the interesting stuff.

Be careful with locked screws though. Somebody earlier mentioned using cyanoacrylates to lock them back in place and this is a really bad idea because that screw may never come out again! There are proper screw locking compounds available and in this case you really do need to use the correct item.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: ornea on September 23, 2015, 09:05:14 pm
OWNERSTICK.  Perhaps dual purpose.  Once side for removing stickers and the side for prying open plastic cases or anything that usually gets done with finger nails.  I would pay 10 bucks for that.

What did he say that coating was as slippery as?

Now, where's that ice bucket.  :-DD

Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Fungus on September 23, 2015, 10:22:21 pm
Be careful with locked screws though. Somebody earlier mentioned using cyanoacrylates to lock them back in place and this is a really bad idea because that screw may never come out again!
That was me.

I guess I should have mentioned that you use a really really small drop. Tiny. Obviously you don't want to cover the screw in it.   :-DD

And yeah, they sell the proper stuff. That's probably best.

Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: AF6LJ on September 24, 2015, 12:46:06 am
AvE posted a response video, with his technique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOZKj8ZGqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOZKj8ZGqo)
I always wondered if that would work...
Now I know. :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: isaiahA on September 25, 2015, 12:58:10 am
That is a creative idea. I will have to try it next time :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: jpelczar on September 26, 2015, 10:37:08 am
Also works nicely with this ridiculous camera stickers which various companies want to put you on your cell phone cameras when entering office buildings - anyone more intelligent than a trained monkey can bypass this pseudo-"security" shit. I also used some oil which will prevent the stickers from glueing.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: Stephan_T on September 26, 2015, 12:32:52 pm
Why bother, you can buy a sheet for a few buck on ebay, search for "security stickers", also available from bunch of other places.

Are there also

Warranty Void if
used with Batteriser


stickers available? The industry may have some demand for them, if/when a specific product really ships.

It would be funny to see how companies like Rigol or Siglent react, if you sent in one of their devices with an ;) Oops ;) Agilent Sticker.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: bigdawg on October 01, 2015, 03:22:48 am
The warranty stickers are utter nonsense. I'm sorry but equipment gets bashed about, moved, scraped, etc. If the sticker gets torn during the move from one desk to another, or scratched with a test probe or something the warranty is void? really?

It's just theatrics. The law (at least in the UK) won't let them off with that nonsense. In fact if a piece of equipment is less than 6 months old then no matter what is wrong with it the default is any problem is considered a manufacturing fault - even if the problem is the idiot using the equipment, it is for the manufacturer to prove it was the user who broke it and a poxy little sticker is not adequate proof.

That then gets on to the usual 12 months warranty. Again that is actually not the law. A piece of equipment should last as long as should be expected for what it is - determined by the courts. This will often mean much longer than 12 months. I would say all test equipment is expected to last longer, however the onus is then on the user to prove the failure was caused by a manufacturing defect rather than himself or fair wear and tear.

you are spot on. I had to relocate to a different building few months ago, and scratched out the warranty sticker from a shimadzu spectrometer. A month later, it started giving me trouble, and the technician replaced the peltier+pcb without even paying attention to the sticker (or lack thereof!). I dont know about the exact law stateside, but I dont think I have ever encountered any reputable manufacturer refusing to fulfill their warranty obligation based on the sticker alone.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: AF6LJ on October 01, 2015, 04:22:10 am
Also works nicely with this ridiculous camera stickers which various companies want to put you on your cell phone cameras when entering office buildings - anyone more intelligent than a trained monkey can bypass this pseudo-"security" shit. I also used some oil which will prevent the stickers from glueing.
if they were really serious about it they would hand you a padded envelope Have you right your full name on it and insist that you keep your cell phone, camera or whatever at the reception desk as a condition of entry.
That really is a separate issue from the tattle tail tamper stickers placed on a new piece of equipment.
Title: Re: EEVblog #799 - How To Remove Warranty Void Security Stickers
Post by: JonnieCache on April 11, 2018, 08:50:15 pm
I know this is an older video, but this story just came out that indicates that the FTC is going after companies for using these stickers to void warranties.

https://gizmodo.com/ftc-tells-companies-their-warranty-void-if-removed-st-1825163011/amp